* Biden-Palin Debate Thread* - Gaffe-By-Gaffe

[Rogue]

I think she's let Biden have the last word a lot more than Palin. (at least it feels that way)

If so, then that's not very fair.

Now that you mention it, you're right it does seem that way.
She's allowed SP to introduce her own topics right off her 3x5 cards too.

She'd like to debate again? Say it ain't so Joe! Accept her offer fercryinoutloud!

[Lott's Bandana]

"I know what the owies are."

[soonerhubs]

What took you so long?

I've been busy creating a sound research rationale for my Thesis and teaching an undergrad course.

[VeeJay]

'nother booty shot!

[LosAngelesSooner]

ooooh...weak sauce.

[Rogue]

Nope, 2004 was more important.
Waaaay more important.

[VeeJay]

Here he goes - the less he says, the more he looks like a winner........

[VeeJay]

Here he goes - the neighborhood he grew up in.

[Lott's Bandana]

"most important election..."

disagree, disagree, disagree

I got to throw out Gray Davis!

[soonerhubs]

I think she's let Biden have the last word a lot more than Palin. (at least it feels that way)

If so, then that's not very fair.

Save those comments for the "real" Conservatives to make. ;) :D ;)

[soonerhubs]

"Why do we fall down Bruce?"

[VeeJay]

'nother booty shot

[Veritas]

'nother booty shot
What are you watching? CSPAN just has them split screened.

[VeeJay]

This is stupid when they all come up on stage like they've all just completed a Saturday Night Live show or something.......

[VeeJay]

I think Biden just copped a feel! Anyone else see that?

[Rogue]

If your happy with her performance, you're really reaching.
Biden was slick, but he's just too slimy.

[Rogue]

I think Biden just copped a feel! Anyone else see that?

I thought I musta been imagining it.

[Rogue]

Yup, Biden and Obama got too wordy.

[King Crimson]

he was def very "touchy".

[soonerhubs]

She's winning more points while she holds her baby. Much more than she ever won with her words this evening.

[Lott's Bandana]

Brokaw kudos for SP, but rightly shared that this debate won't matter much.

[VeeJay]

Biden needs a toupe

[swardboy]

Talking heads on Fox News (yes, two libs there) give her thumbs up...no gaffes....no feisty Biden....she held her own for 90 minutes. The conservatives are breathing huge sighs of relief.

[VeeJay]

Rachel Maddow on MSNBC - this will be good. Just bring on Fidel Castro.

[Penguin]

To me, it looks like it ended in a draw. Nobody impressed me and neither one blew it.

[VeeJay]

Buchanan said Palin "wiped up the floor" with Biden.

I didn't quite see that.

[Veritas]

Talking heads on Fox News (yes, two libs there) give her thumbs up...no gaffes....no feisty Biden....she held her own for 90 minutes. The conservatives are breathing huge sighs of relief.
This conservative thought she was awful with the exception of her last 30 seconds, when she went back to rehearsed words.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I agree.

Biden came off as much more knowledgeable, experienced and prepared. Her? Not so much.

[King Crimson]

oh man, they've got Frank Luntz on doing a fake focus group. that guy is a hired goon for the GOP. and has been for a decade...they are pretending like he's just a "researcher"....too much.

this is truly amazing TV.

[Vaevictis]

I heard JM this morning say something about how he's asked SP for advice "many times" about something or other.

"Sarah, does this suit make my *** look fat?"

[LosAngelesSooner]

"Sarah, does this suit make my *** look fat?"No.

All those moose steaks do.

[Vaevictis]

Seriously, did she answer anything on the fly at all tonight?

Every single time there was a question she didn't have a prepped answer for, she answered a different question that she did have a prepped answer for.

[King Crimson]

Seriously, did she answer anything on the fly at all tonight?

Every single time there was a question she didn't have a prepped answer for, she answered a different question that she did have a prepped answer for.

that's what i thought...

[Curly Bill]

Seriously, did she answer anything on the fly at all tonight?

Every single time there was a question she didn't have a prepped answer for, she answered a different question that she did have a prepped answer for.

So, you're saying she's a politician?

...and ya'll have been trying to talk down her experience.

[Veritas]

Seriously, did she answer anything on the fly at all tonight?

Every single time there was a question she didn't have a prepped answer for, she answered a different question that she did have a prepped answer for.
I expected to spend the debate yelling, "that's bull****, you Democrat *******."

Instead I spent the debate yelling, "answer the damn question, Palin."

[KC//CRIMSON]

Man, it's a good thing Alaska is a big energy state or Palin would have botched half her questions.

[LosAngelesSooner]

...and ya'll have been trying to talk down her experience.Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

I guess she's experienced at MOVING.

[proud gonzo]

I'm glad I wasn't playing a drinking game during the minute and a half I actually watched. I would have been trashed.

[Curly Bill]

Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

I guess she's experienced at MOVING.


Yeah, and I only went to one college so I guess you think I'd make a great POTUS?

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm glad I wasn't playing a drinking game during the minute and a half I actually watched. I would have been trashed.Maverick.

DRINK!

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yeah, and I only went to one college so I guess you think I'd make a great POTUS?
Nope.

I think you'd suck, too.

:D

[Vaevictis]

So, you're saying she's a politician?

...and ya'll have been trying to talk down her experience.

No, I'm saying that she just plain doesn't know what the **** she's talking about. While that often coincides with being a politician, it doesn't always.

Biden, for example, knew what the **** he was talking about.

[Curly Bill]

Nope.

I think you'd suck, too.

:D

I'd be allsome, an end to welfare as we know it, Afghanistan would be a parking lot, abolishment of the Democratic party and the US Congress, I'd make a great dictator...er I mean President. ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

I like Palin, but I thought her performance tonight was horrible and she got creamed. Look, I was a state champion debater in HS so maybe I watch debates differently than most people do but I thought her performance was horrible and teetered on the edge of being catastrophic.

I've debated a lot in my life -- a lot. I can tell when someone has been over-coached and is trying to force facts into a certain narrative. I certainly had debates where I wasn't comfortable with the subject or facts. There is a clear difference when a debater is totally comfortable with facts and recall them as if they were second nature -- with Palin it was forced and wholly unnatural. Now sometimes you can still win a debate when it's obviously you don't have a strong command of the issues, but tonight was not one of those nights.

I thought her performance was abysmal -- simply abysmal.

[Curly Bill]

No, I'm saying that she just plain doesn't know what the **** she's talking about. While that often coincides with being a politician, it doesn't always.

Biden, for example, knew what the **** he was talking about.

He's been in Washington for a hundred years, I'd hope he'd know what to say.

[swardboy]

No, I'm saying that she just plain doesn't know what the **** she's talking about. While that often coincides with being a politician, it doesn't always.

Biden, for example, knew what the **** he was talking about.

The line by Biden about McCain also voting for the tax increase has been debunked by ABC.
The rope line discussion WAS clear that Biden said let China deal with clean coal burning.

[Soonerus]

Palin clearly prevailed tonight !!!

[SicEmBaylor]

Palin clearly prevailed tonight !!!

I haven't read a single post in the rest of this thread yet, so I don't know if you've explained this further but clearly you couldn't be more wrong.

[Soonerus]

I haven't read a single post in the rest of this thread yet, so I don't know if you've explained this further but clearly you couldn't be more wrong.

Your thinking should not be so influenced by your predisposition...

[Veritas]

I thought her performance was abysmal -- simply abysmal.
I'm glad I'm not the only conservative to see it that way. She was just...awful.

I am beginning to fear an Obama landslide and will be buying guns while I can and investing (read: buying **** that I can sorta call a "business expense") to minimize my tax exposure.

[Vaevictis]

He's been in Washington for a hundred years, I'd hope he'd know what to say.

A fact which does not, in any way, diminish the fact that Palin is woefully unprepared, unknowledgeable, and incapable.

If it wasn't clear before, it's clear now. The only reason she's on the ticket is because she has two X chromosomes.

[SicEmBaylor]

Your thinking should not be so influenced by your predisposition...

I wasn't predisposed to think one way or the other on the issue.

[tommieharris91]

Your thinking should not be so influenced by your predisposition...

You could change Sicem's name to LAS and change Rus's name to RLIMC and get the same dialogue.

[Soonerus]

You guys are sick, enthusiastic but sick...

[jdsooner]

She is dangerous and she doesn't know it.
She is fine as governor of Alaska, but heaven help us if she should become president.
If you like "know nothings", then she is perfect.

[Curly Bill]

If it wasn't clear before, it's clear now. The only reason she's on the ticket is because she has two X chromosomes.

Little question about that, but I don't put much stock in debates and what they might tell us about how good a VP, or Pres. either for that matter, someone might make.

[SicEmBaylor]

You could change Sicem's name to LAS and change Rus's name to RLIMC and get the same dialogue.

I share virtually nothing in common with LAS.

Being a conservative doesn't mean having to blow smoke up everyone's *** with an (R) next to their name.

[lexsooner]

Biden: smart, slick, polished, experienced, mean, slimy.

Palin: likeable, inexperienced, over-practiced, canned.

Can we move on to the real candidates?

[Curly Bill]

Little question about that, but I don't put much stock in debates and what they might tell us about how good a VP, or Pres. either for that matter, someone might make.

SicEm was state champ debater -- anyone want to see him as President? :D

[Veritas]

You could change Sicem's name to LAS...
Mmmmnnno, LAS is a Goldwater conservative, where SicEm is...SicEm. :)

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm glad I'm not the only conservative to see it that way. She was just...awful.

I am beginning to fear an Obama landslide and will be buying guns while I can and investing (read: buying **** that I can sorta call a "business expense") to minimize my tax exposure.Count me in the corner with you as well.

I've already planned a trip back to OK in November to get all my guns (and the guns my father left to my brother in Phoenix) that I left there and drive them back here to LA so I can keep an eye on them.

[Soonerus]

Only the young one's are fooled by the Obama b.s...

[SicEmBaylor]

Mmmmnnno, LAS is a Goldwater conservative, where SicEm is...SicEm. :)

SicEm happens to be a Goldwater conservative himself -- otherwise known as a libertarian.

[LosAngelesSooner]

You could change Sicem's name to LAS and change Rus's name to RLIMC and get the same dialogue.Not true. I'm good with women which inherently makes us different. ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

Not true. I'm good with women which inherently makes us different. ;)

If you're good with women then go over to my thread and offer up some tips. Don't hold out on a brother.

[Vaevictis]

Little question about that, but I don't put much stock in debates and what they might tell us about how good a VP, or Pres. either for that matter, someone might make.

No, I mean literally, that's the only reason.

They could have at least gotten a woman who knows what the **** they're talking about. My mother would be a better VP than Palin. By several orders of magnitude.

[tommieharris91]

I share virtually nothing in common with LAS.

Being a conservative doesn't mean having to blow smoke up everyone's *** with an (R) next to their name.

True, but that's how those two always go. Discussions between those two are always the same.

[lexsooner]

Did anyone notice "diversity" in Palin's family means Repubs, Dems, and Indys? No Eskimos allowed?

[Veritas]

Did anyone notice "diversity" in Palin's family means Repubs, Dems, and Indys? No Eskimos allowed?
I assume you mean other than her husband.

[tommieharris91]

Only the young one's are fooled by the Obama b.s...

Seriously, am I the only one that sees this?

[LosAngelesSooner]

SicEm was state champ debater -- anyone want to see him as President? :DDare we say...a MASTER DEBATER?!?!?!

:D:D:D

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, and I only went to one college so I guess you think I'd make a great POTUS?

I'd seriously move. Anywhere. To ****ing Togo.






:D

[Curly Bill]

Dare we say...a MASTER DEBATER?!?!?!

:D:D:D

Finally...something we can agree on! :D

[SicEmBaylor]

Dare we say...a MASTER DEBATER?!?!?!

:D:D:D

Debaters do it orally.

Debaters do it in 17 minutes with 3 minutes prep time.

We tried to have shirts made up with those slogans, but the principal nipped it in the bud. =( Damned fascist. ;)

[Curly Bill]

I'd seriously move. Anywhere. To ****ing Togo.






:D

Move hell, I'd kick you out so fast you wouldn't have time to think about moving. :P

[KC//CRIMSON]

Palin clearly prevailed tonight !!!

Prevailed in not sticking her foot in her mouth.

[JohnnyMack]

Your thinking should not be so influenced by your predisposition...

SicEm hates Obama. Did you fall and hit your head or something?

[Vaevictis]

Prevailed in not sticking her foot in her mouth.

From what we've seen of her in interviews, that's quite an accomplishment for her.

[Soonerus]

Seriously, am I the only one that sees this?

Boren won the Governors race in Oklahoma in 1978-82, on basically the same themes as Obama...nothing new, just empty promises...Boren delivered...Obama will not...

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm hates Obama. Did you fall and hit your head or something?

I don't hate Obama at all. I really like the guy...a lot. I disagree with most of his politics, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for the man and wouldn't necessarily mind seeing him become President.

[Veritas]

From what we've seen of her in interviews, that's quite an accomplishment for her.
She hasn't really stuck her foot in her mouth, she just hasn't said anything substantial.

[Curly Bill]

From what we've seen of her in interviews, that's quite an accomplishment for her.

So...if we're grading on a curve she won the debate?

...and that is a win for the good guys! :)

[tbl]

Guys, you gotta admit that she held her own tonight and gave the pubs a big sigh of relief. There were buttholes clinched around the Nation tonight prior to this thing kicking off and now a collective relaxation of sphincters everywhere.

[GottaHavePride]

I'd seriously move. Anywhere. To ****ing Togo.






:D

I have a cousin-in-law from Togo. Cool guy.

[LosAngelesSooner]

If you're good with women then go over to my thread and offer up some tips. Don't hold out on a brother.I'll see what I can do.

(but don't expect miracles) ;)

[tommieharris91]

Boren won the Governors race in Oklahoma in 1978-82, on basically the same themes as Obama...nothing new, just empty promises...Boren delivered...Obama will not...

It's obvious you didn't.

[GottaHavePride]

Guys, you gotta admit that she held her own tonight and gave the pubs a big sigh of relief. There were buttholes clinched around the Nation tonight prior to this thing kicking off and now a collective relaxation of sphincters everywhere.

Really? I thought she sounded like a pull-the-string doll that was spitting out canned answers regardless of whether they applied to the question at hand or not.

[Curly Bill]

I have a cousin-in-law from Togo. Cool guy.

Tell him not to worry about JohnnyMack moving in next to him, I'll have his body dumped in the ocean. ;)

[Soonerus]

It's obvious you didn't.

nolo understanda....

[GottaHavePride]

Tell him not to worry about JohnnyMack moving in next to him, I'll have his body dumped in the ocean. ;)

Nah, the cousin-in-law is originally from Togo. Right now he's in Denver doing medical research or something.

[Vaevictis]

She hasn't really stuck her foot in her mouth, she just hasn't said anything substantial.

Your idea of "not sticking her foot in her mouth" is different than mine.

At least one of the clips I've seen was literally on the order of "I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so, because uh, some people out there in our nation don't have maps."

[JohnnyMack]

JohnnyMack says,

Biden won this debate tonight. Almost all of the focus leading up to this debate was about how Palin would fare and little attention was paid to how Biden would do. While Palin did OK and managed to hold on for dear life during the economic debate, Biden pulled away easily once the topic shifted to foreign policy. He didn't knock her out, but he wins a unanimous decision. He was "on point" as the talking heads like to say and was able to effectively tie McCain to Bush all the while coming across as someone who could be trusted as POTUS if need be. Palin failed to address questions and as V pointed out, kept turning specific questions back to coached narratives. Most times she wasn't even clever about it. Biden was never condescending, mean spirited or rude. Palin was effective at "reenergizing the base!" again, but I don't think you'll find she did a good job of moving undecided/independent voters over to the McCain side.

[JohnnyMack]

Tell him not to worry about JohnnyMack moving in next to him, I'll have his body dumped in the ocean. ;)

Bury me at sea!!!

[jthomasou78]

Her answers were canned, but at least they were answers. I dont think she won the debate, but she did not lose the election for McCain tonight. After, how she has looked in recent interviews I thought that may be a possibility after tonight.

I think that McCain and Palin are missing the good attacking point. Go after the amount of spending the Obama campaign wants to do.

In both debates so far the Obama campaign's answer to what are you going to cut in light of the bailout packge has been not what they will cut, but what new spending they will not cut. I think this coul dbe totally exploited as a "fundamental difference" between the campaigns.

[Curly Bill]

Bury me at sea!!!

Not bury, just plain ol' dumped! :P :D

[Lott's Bandana]

I share virtually nothing in common with LAS.

Being a conservative doesn't mean having to blow smoke up everyone's *** with an (R) next to their name.

SicEmBalo (R)

[texas bandman]

Only the young one's are fooled by the Obama b.s...

I'm not a young one....I'm a retired US vet who supports Barack Obama. JM has been spewing a lot more BS recently, but I feel that he's panicking as he sees the election slipping away.

[Soonerus]

JohnnyMack says,

Biden won this debate tonight. Almost all of the focus leading up to this debate was about how Palin would fare and little attention was paid to how Biden would do. While Palin did OK and managed to hold on for dear life during the economic debate, Biden pulled away easily once the topic shifted to foreign policy. He didn't knock her out, but he wins a unanimous decision. He was "on point" as the talking heads like to say and was able to effectively tie McCain to Bush all the while coming across as someone who could be trusted as POTUS if need be. Palin failed to address questions and as V pointed out, kept turning specific questions back to coached narratives. Most times she wasn't even clever about it. Biden was never condescending, mean spirited or rude. Palin was effective at "reenergizing the base!" again, but I don't think you'll find she did a good job of moving undecided/independent voters over to the McCain side.

The USA surprises me that ordinarily good-thinking people could get so screwed up in their opinions... I guess that makes a great country...not sure...

[Vaevictis]

I think that McCain and Palin are missing the good attacking point. Go after the amount of spending the Obama campaign wants to do.

This is not a bad idea.


In both debates so far the Obama campaign's answer to what are you going to cut in light of the bailout packge has been not what they will cut, but what new spending they will not cut. I think this coul dbe totally exploited as a "fundamental difference" between the campaigns.

This is. McCain/Palin basically sidestepped the issue entirely.

I give the McCain and Obama campaigns a pass on this question during the first presidential debate -- it was probably the first time it was put to both campaigns, so neither candidate had a good answer.

You'll notice that during tonight's debate, Biden at least said that they'd have to come back on the promise to increase foreign aid due to budgetary reasons.

Palin sidestepped the issue entirely.

[JohnnyMack]

The USA surprises me that ordinarily good-thinking people could get so screwed up in their opinions... I guess that makes a great country...not sure...

Have you ever been outside of the state of Oklahoma? Seriously.

[Soonerus]

I'm not a young one....I'm a retired US vet who supports Barack Obama. JM has been spewing a lot more BS recently, but I feel that he's panicking as he sees the election slipping away.

Ok, the young ones and a few old repropates...

[SicEmBaylor]

The USA surprises me that ordinarily good-thinking people could get so screwed up in their opinions... I guess that makes a great country...not sure...

Do you suppose that in some kind of totally theoretical alternate reality that a person who otherwise disagrees with Biden's views can believe, nonetheless, that he won the debate?

[Soonerus]

Have you ever been outside of the state of Oklahoma? Seriously.

Only a few hundred times...thank you world traveler..I own property in other states and other countries...

[SicEmBaylor]

I own property in other countries...

It's a whore house in Tijuana isn't it? Admit it.

[tommieharris91]

Rus, did RLIMC steal your handle?

[Soonerus]

It's a whore house in Tijuana isn't it? Admit it.

I wish...

[GrapevineSooner]

I'd have to rewatch the debate to really find out.

Just casually watching, I thought it was either a slight Biden win or a tie. I don't think either candidate did anything to torpedo their running mate's campaign and I think Palin held her own. But when two of the most respected conservative posters on this site suggest that Palin bombed (and in case you're wondering, I'm talking about SicEm and Veritas), you have to reconsider.

I will say this. I thought Palin missed a number of openings to hammer Biden on, including Biden's criticism of McCain voting against expanding the Federal child healthcare coverage and criticism of Robert Bork for wanting to repeal Roe v. Wade.

I want it repealed not because I'm against abortion, but because it's a classic example of legislating from the bench. I say let the state's decide the issue.

But I digress.

Palin's answer on the topic of climate change, greed on wall street, and failing to mention that any windfall profits tax might as well be another consumer tax gave me serious cases of tired head as well.

All in all, neither side did anything to torpedo their campaigns tonight. But they also didn't really do anything to separate themselves in the polls from the other.

EDIT: All this having been said, I think if Obama does win here in about 33 days, it won't be because of Palin.

It'll be because of one Senator's vote last night.

I think you can figure out which Senator I'm talking about, too.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Have you ever been outside of the state of Oklahoma? Seriously.Careful. He'll have another "football board" meltdown. ;)

[JohnnyMack]

Only a few hundred times...thank you world traveler..I own property in other states and other countries...

I knew Bruce had a troll around here somewhere!

[soonerscuba]

Only a few hundred times...thank you world traveler..I own property in other states and other countries...Bruce.

Second. fing JM.

[Soonerus]

Rus, did RLIMC steal your handle?

No, nothing going on in the casino, so a chance to annoy people, not to be missed..

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'd have to rewatch the debate to really find out.

Just casually watching, I thought it was either a slight Biden win or a tie. I don't think either candidate did anything to torpedo their running mate's campaign and I think Palin held her own. But when two of the most respected conservative posters on this site suggest that Palin bombed (and in case you're wondering, I'm talking about SicEm and Veritas), you have to reconsider.

I will say this. I thought Palin missed a number of openings to hammer Biden on, including Biden's criticism of McCain voting against expanding the Federal child healthcare coverage and criticism of Robert Bork for wanting to repeal Roe v. Wade.

I want it repealed not because I'm against abortion, but because it's a classic example of legislating from the bench. I say let the state's decide the issue.

But I digress.

Palin's answer on the topic of climate change, greed on wall street, and failing to mention that any windfall profits tax might as well be another consumer tax gave me serious cases of tired head as well.

All in all, neither side did anything to torpedo their campaigns tonight. But they also didn't really do anything to separate themselves in the polls from the other.Biden wiped the floor with Palin.

And everyone knows it.

Although I will agree that neither candidate won or lost the election for McCain or Obama tonight.

[JohnnyMack]

All in all, neither side did anything to torpedo their campaigns tonight. But they also didn't really do anything to separate themselves in the polls from the other.

Yup. McCain needs to change the game at this point, not trade punches.

[Soonerus]

Careful. He'll have another "football board" meltdown. ;)

or LAS gets perma-perma banned...

[Soonerus]

Biden wiped the floor with Palin.

And everyone knows it.

You and Chris Matthews go have a beer and celebrate...

[LosAngelesSooner]

or LAS gets perma-perma banned...Keep wishin'. ;)

[Soonerus]

Keep wishin'. ;)

I don't wish that on anybody, trust me...

[LosAngelesSooner]

The scary/upsetting thing (IMHO) is hearing that McCain has pulled his campaign out of Michigan.

That is a BIG state to surrender and a state that Bush won in '04 (didn't he?)

[GrapevineSooner]

No Republican has carried Michigan since 1988.

So no, he didn't.

[JohnnyMack]

The scary/upsetting thing (IMHO) is hearing that McCain has pulled his campaign out of Michigan.

That is a BIG state to surrender and a state that Bush won in '04 (didn't he?)

I don't think it's scary that he's pulling out of MI, I think it's scary that he's sending those who were working in MI to places like FL and OH because his leads are gone in those states. If polling data doesn't improve quickly in those two states, this thing is over.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Oh. Crap. My bad.

But it's still upsetting. I thought he was running a close on there. To just surrender the state...

[SicEmBaylor]

The scary/upsetting thing (IMHO) is hearing that McCain has pulled his campaign out of Michigan.

That is a BIG state to surrender and a state that Bush won in '04 (didn't he?)

Bush didn't win Michigan, but he came close if I remember correctly (like by 4 pts or so). Michigan has been having economic problems for a long time though, and the people of Michigan had blamed the Democratically controlled state government for making it difficult to do business in the state. That's why McCain had been doing pretty well there and Republicans were expected to make large gains in the state legislature. Unfortunately, the nation's economy as a whole has been going down the drain and with it the citizens of Michigan have started connecting their own economic troubles with the nation as a whole which has been very good for Obama.

Personally, I think giving up on Michigan (and the stupidity of making it public) marks the beginning of the end for the McCain campaign. Short of some horrible disaster, I think they're toast next month.

[Soonerus]

FOX text results 86% Palin...12% Biden...dispositive...over 1 millions votes...

[Vaevictis]

FOX text results 86% Palin...12% Biden...dispositive...over 1 millions votes...

Fox text results? Like, text messages? And Fox News? If so...

Uh, so a conservative news network's audience thinks the Republican candidate won? No way that could have anything to do with the audience's predisposition, right?

[GrapevineSooner]

If McCain doesn't carry Ohio, he loses, plain and simple.

Like I said in my re-edit, though, he probably lost this race last night when he voted for the Bailout Bill.

[tommieharris91]

FOX text results 86% Palin...12% Biden...dispositive...over 1 millions votes...

Meanwhile, CNN sees it 71-26 Biden.

[tommieharris91]

If McCain doesn't carry Ohio, he loses, plain and simple.

Like I said in my re-edit, though, he probably lost this race last night when he voted for the Bailout Bill.

If only he can connect Obama and Biden to that same plan...

[LosAngelesSooner]

FOX text results 86% Palin...12% Biden...dispositive...over 1 millions votes...
LOL

Yeah. Fox: Fair and Balanced. :rolleyes:

LMAO!

[LosAngelesSooner]

If McCain doesn't carry Ohio, he loses, plain and simple.

Like I said in my re-edit, though, he probably lost this race last night when he voted for the Bailout Bill.Believe it or not, it may come down to Nevada and New Mexico even if he DOES win Ohio and Florida.

[Vaevictis]

If only he can connect Obama and Biden to that same plan...

It won't have the same effect. Their base isn't allergic to government spending or government intervention. McCain's is.

[Soonerus]

Meanwhile, CNN sees it 71-26 Biden.

Imagine that...that is an indictment on today's journalism...

[LosAngelesSooner]

Meanwhile, CNN sees it 71-26 Biden.
I recognize the fact that CNN leans left at times, but I find it to be the most centric news network. MSNBC is the FoxNews of the left.

I can't watch EITHER of those hatchet job networks.

[Soonerus]

Believe it or not, it may come down to Nevada and New Mexico even if he DOES win Ohio and Florida.

That is unbelievable...

[tommieharris91]

It won't have the same effect. Their base isn't allergic to government spending or government intervention. McCain's is.
That's not what I'm hearing. I think there are people on both sides of the aisle vehemently against the bill.

[Vaevictis]

Imagine that...that is an indictment on today's journalism...

But Fox's numbers are okay?

Seriously? Seriously?

[tommieharris91]

Imagine that...that is an indictment on today's journalism...

But Fox's poll is the Gospel truth? :confused:

[SicEmBaylor]

I recognize the fact that CNN leans left at times, but I find it to be the most centric news network. MSNBC is the FoxNews of the left.

I can't watch EITHER of those hatchet job networks.

I agree with all of that. Although, I don't mind Brit Hume's show. I think Hume is pretty fair, but the talking heads they have on there are incredibly obnoxious. The network is full of busty blondes who owe their success more to bust size than journalistic skills, and their opinion shows are mindless. Hannity is such a moronic airhead that I'm pretty sure his feet are anchored to the floor so he doesn't float away.

[tommieharris91]

I recognize the fact that CNN leans left at times, but I find it to be the most centric news network. MSNBC is the FoxNews of the left.

I can't watch EITHER of those hatchet job networks.

All I did was go to cnn.com to check out their pole. I can't stand any of those news networks.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Imagine that...that is an indictment on today's journalism...No. It's an indictment on today's politics in America and how divided and segmented (and compartmentalized) we've become.

The right watches their shows...the left watches their shows...and discussions dissolve into shouting matches and calling people "terrorists" and questioning their loyalty/allegiance/party affiliation if they DARE disagree with you.

[Curly Bill]

But Fox's numbers are okay?

Seriously? Seriously?

You didn't see where Rus said he was over here to annoy people? I'm LMAO at seeing him get you guys worked up...after saying that's what he intended! :D

[Soonerus]

No. It's an indictment on today's politics in America and how divided and segmented (and compartmentalized) we've become.

The right watches their shows...the left watches their shows...and discussions dissolve into shouting matches and calling people "terrorists" and questioning their loyalty/allegiance/party affiliation if they DARE disagree with you.

It is sick...

[Vaevictis]

That's not what I'm hearing. I think there are people on both sides of the aisle vehemently against the bill.

I think that they'll both lose votes over it. I just think McCain will lose more. I don't think there will be many folks switching votes over this, since they both voted. I think the likely result will be folks staying at home -- and given the difference in Republican and Democratic views on government intervention and spending, I think that more Republicans are going to choose to stay at home than Democrats.

I admit that I could be wrong. But I think my conclusion is rational.

[Vaevictis]

You didn't see where Rus said he was over here to annoy people? I'm LMAO at seeing him get you guys worked up...after saying that's what he intended! :D

Nah, I'm not worked up. When I stop implying that I think that someone's being a moron and just outright say it -- that's when you know I'm getting worked up ;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

You didn't see where Rus said he was over here to annoy people? I'm LMAO at seeing him get you guys worked up...after saying that's what he intended! :D
:les:SHUT UP! I'M NOT WORKED UP YOU'RE WORKED UP!


;)

[Soonerus]

..or could the Hillary voters stay home...18,000,000...

[Curly Bill]

:les:SHUT UP! I'M NOT WORKED UP YOU'RE WORKED UP!

I'm going to have to request that you stop posting in this thread! ;)

[achiro]

I look forward to see if anyone actually calls Biden out on all the stuff he made up and lied about in the debate?

[Soonerus]

I really can't believe how these politicians (on both sides) can misrepresent the facts and so many people take the mis-statements as gospel...It just never stops amazing me...people, generally, are just too lazy to do their own research ...

[LosAngelesSooner]

Kinda like the, "He voted against funding the troops," "No, YOUR GUY voted against funding the troops because it had a timetable," "No, your guy voted against funding the troops!"

They both voted against bills which had funding for the troops in it for different reasons. We get it. Shut up. Move on. TIA

[Partial Qualifier]

I look forward to see if anyone actually calls Biden out on all the stuff he made up and lied about in the debate?

You're not getting it.. Biden's better at fluid delivery of misleading facts, so he won. ;)

Palin.. more than held her own. She made up what she lacks in Washington experience with effectively driving a wedge between Biden and Obama, fighting back the McSame mantra, and genuine honesty and sincerity.

Two dynamics I think some of you are missing: everyone expected her to gaffe it up and she didnt; and many people are actually encouraged to see someone running for an executive who's NOT a career Capitol Hill politician.

[jdsooner]

Palin was well coached and rather than answering specific questions, she gave whatever answer would help her the most. I pray to God that we never put this woman in the White House. The sad thing is that she wants it worse than Hillary and will NEVER be ready for the job.

[LosAngelesSooner]

You're not getting it.. Biden's better at fluid delivery of misleading facts, so he won. ;)

Palin.. more than held her own. She made up what she lacks in Washington experience with effectively driving a wedge between Biden and Obama, fighting back the McSame mantra, and genuine honesty and sincerity.

Two dynamics I think some of you are missing: everyone expected her to gaffe it up and she didnt; and many people are actually encouraged to see someone running for an executive who's NOT a career Capitol Hill politician.I so COMPLETELY disagree with you.

First off I feel like she DID gaffe it up. She just wasn't as embarrassing as she has been in the recent past. She still looked inexperienced and uninformed.

Secondly many of us WANT a career politician (McCain) at a time when the economy, war, politics in D.C., and energy crisis are so messed up that they NEED someone who understands how things work and who has the power to come in and fix it. NOT someone with a hammer who'll just walk in and start smashing things because, "All things politikal are baaad!!! PALIN SMASH!!!"

And:
"Genuine honesty and sincerity?" Puh-leeze.

And she didn't drive a wedge between Obama and Biden. However Biden DID successfully link McCain to Bush & Cheney...which is baaad for McCain. (and fundamentally untrue)

[Soonerus]

I so COMPLETELY disagree with you.

"Genuine honesty and sincerity?" Puh-leeze.

And she didn't drive a wedge between Obama and Biden. However Biden DID successfully link McCain to Bush & Cheney...which is baaad for McCain. (and fundamentally untrue)

This is straight from MSNBC...

[LosAngelesSooner]

This is straight from MSNBC...
Oh, stop it. :D

[GrapevineSooner]

LAS may be many things.

A Keith Blowbermann, he is not.

[def_lazer_fc]

oh man, they've got Frank Luntz on doing a fake focus group. that guy is a hired goon for the GOP. and has been for a decade...they are pretending like he's just a "researcher"....too much.

this is truly amazing TV.

the focus group seemed to be sponsored by budweiser as well.

[reevie]

the focus group seemed to be sponsored by budweiser as well.

So now the Belgians are trying to influence our elections? What have we come to?

[SouthFortySooner]

Palin was well coached and rather than answering specific questions, she gave whatever answer would help her the most. I pray to God that we never put this woman in the White House. The sad thing is that she wants it worse than Hillary and will NEVER be ready for the job.

Did Palin campaign for for the selection?

[Sooner in Tampa]

Did Palin campaign for for the selection?
Stop that!!!! There will no using FACTS here!!! :P

[lexsooner]

So now the Belgians are trying to influence our elections? What have we come to?

Bud tastes like Phlegm, or I should say Flem.

[JohnnyMack]

Do any Palin supporters have a problem with her not answering specific questions and moving things over and over again towards talking points she felt comfortable with?

[OU-HSV]

Do any Palin supporters have a problem with her not answering specific questions and moving things over and over again towards talking points she felt comfortable with?

Yeah, that got a little annoying, but that seems to be the way debates always go. All politicians tend to sway away from topics very often in debates, and focus more on things their comfortable with. I recall Gore and Bush both doing this in their debates, and so on. So I'm not too shocked she did this.

Biden ignored some things that were brought up as well, but most of those were brought up by Palin and not the moderator, so I don't know if that counts as avoiding things as well or not. Mainly I'm talking about the differences between him and Obama in the past that Palin mentioned.
Seems he did eventually give an answer later on in the debate though. Kinda said something like "that's my record for those who know me, I don't always agree with everything put out there".
To me (as a McCain/Palin voter), this debate was interesting. I thought Biden had the edge, he has debated more than her in his lifetime and I do think that showed.

But I think she held her ground and didn't make herself look inexperienced/flustered as she appartently did in that edited Katie Couric interview. (I never saw the real Katie Couric interview/only saw the SNL skit). So I was proud of Palin for standing strong, all the while knowing how big a deal the media and SNL had made of her prior couple of interviews. Just my thoughts anyways.

(PS: I wish Palin and McCain would quit saying "maverick"...even to a supporter it's getting really old.)

[Partial Qualifier]

Do any Palin supporters have a problem with her not answering specific questions and moving things over and over again towards talking points she felt comfortable with?

No, because she's had 5 weeks to prepare for this -- not just the debate but everything involved with campaigning for VP. Five Weeks! I like her track record as an executive and I understand she's not a Washington insider. In fact that's an asset as far as I'm concerned. Getting to this point in 5 weeks proves to me she's capable of learning what she needs to know.

Track record is a prerequisite with me. Citing misleading facts with ease and fluidity is not. Which brings us to the obvious question:

Do any Biden supporters have a problem with the fact he's got 35 years of Washington insider experience including presidential campaigns and debates, yet still had to lie over and over while debating a woman with 5 weeks of experience?

[Collier11]

Do any Palin supporters have a problem with her not answering specific questions and moving things over and over again towards talking points she felt comfortable with?

Yes but not that much...she has had a lot to figure out in a short amount of time

[Veritas]

Do any Palin supporters have a problem with her not answering specific questions and moving things over and over again towards talking points she felt comfortable with?
I don't know if I fall into that category, but I'm compelled to answer anyway.

First, though, I don't believe that I'm a member of the population that each politician was trying to reach last night. I'm a white 33 year old with two undergrad degrees. I make more than the national arithmetic mean, and I own a business. I pay cash for everything unless I can mathematically see an advantage to using debt. I'm not "Joe Six Pack," so I don't believe my opinions represent any particularly significant demographic.

That said, last night I desperately wanted to see something from Palin that gave me a reason to vote for the McCain ticket and still maintain my personal integrity as a voter. She's been accused of being ignorant, out of her league, uninformed, essentially nothing more than a middle-aged beauty queen capable of delivering rehearsed speeches but incapable of responding to ad-hoc queries. I wanted to see something to counter these criticisms.

Instead what I saw was a middle-aged beauty queen responding to ad-hoc queries with rehearsed speehes. Opportunities to deliver convincing answers to valid questions were squandered one after the other. Rather, the answers were vague, rhetorical responses that maintained at best a tenuous relationship with the question.

I refuse to make my voting decisions based on those in whom I do not believe. It is disheartening to hear voters continually phrase their support for a candidate in the context of their disgust for another candidate. Such is the unfortunate result of the slow but sure cementing of our political system into a contest between two and only two bodies.

[fadada1]

Instead what I saw was a middle-aged beauty queen responding to ad-hoc queries with rehearsed speehes. Opportunities to deliver convincing answers to valid questions were squandered one after the other. Rather, the answers were vague, rhetorical responses that maintained at best a tenuous relationship with the question.


BEAUTIFUL!!!!

absolutely, positively, couldn't have said it any better if my life depended on it.

[mdklatt]

Instead what I saw was a middle-aged beauty queen responding to ad-hoc queries with rehearsed speehes. Opportunities to deliver convincing answers to valid questions were squandered one after the other. Rather, the answers were vague, rhetorical responses that maintained at best a tenuous relationship with the question.


You'll appreciate this, Veritittay.



// PalinBot.hpp


// Ver. 0.31
//
// Only works in a managed environment.
// NOT COMPATIBLE with Media interface.

class PalinBot
{
public :
enum topics { ENRG, ECON, IRAQ, GOVT }
PalinBot() { std::imbue(std::locale("minnesota" | "mayberry")); }
void debate(const std::string& question) const
{
smile();
if (question.find("energy") != string::npos) {
std::cout << script[ENRG] << '\n';
}
else if (question.find("economy") != string::npos) {
std::cout << script[ECON] << '\n';
}
else if (question.find("Iraq") != string::npos) {
std::cout << script[IRAQ] << '\n';
}
else if (question.find("government") != string::npos) {
std::cout << script[GOVT] << '\n';
}
else {
randomize();
}
wink();
return;
}

private :
static const std::string[] script {
"Drill, baby, drill!",
"They'll raise your taxes!",
"White flag of surrender!",
"Maverick! Joe Six Pack! Maverick!"
}
void dissemble() const;
void anecodote() const;
void hold_baby() const;
void explain() { throw std::runtime_error("not implemented"); }
}
};

[Veritas]

This is the funniest part, many levels:

std::imbue(std::locale("minnesota" | "mayberry"));

[Collier11]

BEAUTIFUL!!!!

absolutely, positively, couldn't have said it any better if my life depended on it.

So you would rather hear lies and half truths from Biden than rehearsed answers from Palin?

[mdklatt]

So you would rather hear lies and half truths from Biden than rehearsed lies and half truths from Palin?

Fixed.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

[Collier11]

Fixed.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

I never said they werent both politicians ;)

[Echoes]

I don't know if I fall into that category, but I'm compelled to answer anyway.

First, though, I don't believe that I'm a member of the population that each politician was trying to reach last night. I'm a white 33 year old with two undergrad degrees. I make more than the national arithmetic mean, and I own a business. I pay cash for everything unless I can mathematically see an advantage to using debt. I'm not "Joe Six Pack," so I don't believe my opinions represent any particularly significant demographic.

That said, last night I desperately wanted to see something from Palin that gave me a reason to vote for the McCain ticket and still maintain my personal integrity as a voter. She's been accused of being ignorant, out of her league, uninformed, essentially nothing more than a middle-aged beauty queen capable of delivering rehearsed speeches but incapable of responding to ad-hoc queries. I wanted to see something to counter these criticisms.

Instead what I saw was a middle-aged beauty queen responding to ad-hoc queries with rehearsed speehes. Opportunities to deliver convincing answers to valid questions were squandered one after the other. Rather, the answers were vague, rhetorical responses that maintained at best a tenuous relationship with the question.




Spec to you, Ver. You just saved me 5-10 minutes of typing my thoughts out when you said exactly what I was thinking.

[GottaHavePride]

But I think she held her ground and didn't make herself look inexperienced/flustered as she appartently did in that edited Katie Couric interview. (I never saw the real Katie Couric interview/only saw the SNL skit).



FYI, there's a video on youtube of the real interview and tina fey's fake interview running split-screen. The rambling answer to the bailout question that Tina Fey gave was almost word-for-word EXACTLY what Palin actually said. Tina Fey put some things in a slightly different order, but it was 95% identical.

So, yeah, the real interview with Katie Couric was THAT BAD.

[GottaHavePride]

0Y7E235ujJ4

[TUSooner]

I only saw the very end, but I'm pretty sure Biden was hitting on Palin after the debate.

[OU-HSV]

FYI, there's a video on youtube of the real interview and tina fey's fake interview running split-screen. The rambling answer to the bailout question that Tina Fey gave was almost word-for-word EXACTLY what Palin actually said. Tina Fey put some things in a slightly different order, but it was 95% identical.

So, yeah, the real interview with Katie Couric was THAT BAD.

After watching that I can see where SNL came up with that skit.
That Couric interview wasn't a good score for Palin indeed.

[StoopTroup]

"Live from NY...It's Saturday Night!" :D

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10052008/tv/_snl_sends_up_vp_debate_with_fey__queen__132263.ht m

[GottaHavePride]

That was hilarious.

And I would just like to point out that my goal tonight was not to come across as mean and condescending, and I have to say... I think I nailed it. Score one for Joe Biden! To all of you that thought I couldn't do it? You just got schooled, Biden-style!

Oh, are we not doing the talent portion?