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The Maestro
10/1/2008, 10:25 PM
I know everyone is beat down because of the bailout, but how about this nugget today?

"Moderating" the debate but has a book about Obama coming out on...Inaguration Day. She stands to make $3.50 for every book sold. Gonna be hard to sell those books if McCain wins. And she is the "moderator" of the VP debate.

Anybody want to try and convince us that her book is not about Obama but about the "Obama era and black voters"?

Washington, D.C. is a really ugly place right now...

Harry Beanbag
10/1/2008, 10:47 PM
I'm ready to move to the mountains and give D.C. my middle finger.

The Maestro
10/1/2008, 10:50 PM
You just say that cause it is still triple digits in PHX!

In Flagstaff tonight...actually got to sport the OU sweatshirt. It was awesome!

Sooner98
10/1/2008, 10:51 PM
Why did the McCain camp agree to this?

Harry Beanbag
10/1/2008, 10:51 PM
You just say that cause it is still triple digits in PHX!

In Flagstaff tonight...actually got to sport the OU sweatshirt. It was awesome!

We're going camping up in Crown King this weekend. 50 degrees will feel really really good.

The Maestro
10/1/2008, 11:02 PM
Why did the McCain camp agree to this?

Cause the Maverick is anything BUT James Garner!

And unless he and Palin grow a pair (physiological inabilities not withstanding) they are doomed as doomed can be.

SoonerKnight
10/1/2008, 11:36 PM
Cause the Maverick is anything BUT James Garner!

And unless he and Palin grow a pair (physiological inabilities not withstanding) they are doomed as doomed can be.

I agree!

def_lazer_fc
10/2/2008, 12:36 AM
yawn. you knew this was gonna be trumpeted about now. this **** was known for some time, but no one is complaining until now. im actually surprised only one person on this board seemed to be that worried by it.

Frozen Sooner
10/2/2008, 01:01 AM
The book is not "about" Barack Obama. It contains a discussion of his candidacy for President in the context of other campaigns for political office by African Americans. Considering it was well-known that she was writing said book, you'd have to be pretty ****ing stupid to think she wouldn't include anything in it about the first major-party candidate with a significant quantum of African descent.

LesNessman
10/2/2008, 07:46 AM
She still stands to gain more financially from the book if Obama wins the election. That much is plain to see.

Ifill was liberally biased in the 2004 Cheney / Edwards VP debate; imagine that.

And more...

"Here are more signs Sarah Palin could face an uphill battle with PBS host Gwen Ifill. Professor Sherrilyn Ifill of the University of Maryland Law School, who Gwen Ifill has lauded as "my brilliant baby cousin," has written that black women are not buying Sarah Palin’s "false claims to feminism" and is portrayed as too perfect: "when women who are privileged present as though they have it all together, it’s offensive to black women." (Photo from Soros.com)

The Community Times, a suburban Maryland newspaper, found Professor Ifill was ardently opposed to the Alaska governor when they did an e-mail interview:

"From the first day, Palin presented herself as shooting a bear in the morning, field dressing it, cooking up the breakfast, diapering the babies, passing legislation in the afternoon, cleaning the house, satisfying her husband, etc., etc., etc. And it's just not true," she wrote in an e-mail interview. "It's hard to be an average working mom, really hard. And when women who are privileged present as though they have it all together, it's offensive to black women."

Granted, they're not G. Ifills words, but anyone (including McCain) thinking the deck is not stacked against Palin in this debate from the get-go is merely fooling themself.

It's inexplicable.

LesNessman
10/2/2008, 08:10 AM
Then again, there was this hard-hitting Obama expose by Ifill:

The Obamas: Portrait of an American Family
Gwen Ifill

Soon we will vote for our next president, and for the first time in history, one of the two candidates is a Black man. For a year, Essence pursued an interview with the entire Obama family‹to no avail. Finally, this summer ESSENCE became the only Black media outlet allowed a glimpse into the lives of Barack, Michelle and their two girls, Malia and Sasha, when we were invited to their South Side Chicago home. Weeks later, veteran political journalist Gwen Ifill was with the family as they campaigned in a small mostly White western town, and she flew with them to a Black church in the urban Midwest.

Barack Obama is sitting in the back of his rented luxury campaign bus with its granite counters and two flat-screen TVs. The Illinois senator's arms are wrapped around his wife, Michelle, whom he doesn't get to see much these days. At this very moment he is, of all things, singing.

I've just asked them how their lives have changed since he won the Democratic presidential nomination. There have definitely been changes, especially for Michelle Obama, who used to pride herself on campaigning by day and rushing home to her daughters each night. Now she is spending more of her days and nights on the road, but seldom in the same place as her husband. And when their daughters‹Malia, 10, and Sasha, 7 get to see their dad, they likely have to share him with thousands of adoring strangers. "Daddy's gone a lot," Sasha notes. "We don't see him that much."

But on this Fourth of July, everyone is together. Even though there are at least a half-dozen aides and family members on the bus with us, it feels intimate back here. Michelle and Barack are curled up on the beige couch, while the children are reading and coloring a few feet away. Michelle folds her long legs to her chin and leans into her husband as he explains the reality of their lives. When he pauses, she finishes his sentences.

Their ease with each other recalls the day several weeks earlier when ESSENCE arrived to photograph the Obamas at their large Georgian Revivial home on Chicago's South Side. Barack stood on the lawn playfully teasing his wife as she posed for our cameras. Now, as then, his customary public caution melts away when he is with his family. Under relentless media scrutiny, Barack Obama says his family is going the extra mile to "maintain this little island of normalcy in the midst of all this swirl of activity."

But family snapshots of this sort are rare, as are moments when the Obamas can just chill. "Michelle has done a heroic job of managing the house, the family and still finding time to campaign and be out on the road," he says, after directing staff members to turn off the television, which was tuned to Fox News Channel. "I'm always marveling at everything that she can do."

And then he sings.

"I'm every woman," he croons. She cringes. He laughs. "That's Michelle. It's like, Chaka Khan! Chaka Khan!"

http://www.essence.com/news_entertainment/news/articles/theobamasportraitofanamericanfamily

TheHumanAlphabet
10/2/2008, 08:47 AM
Why did the McCain camp agree to this?

Because Ifill lied and failed to disclose to the commission she was working on the book.

colleyvillesooner
10/2/2008, 08:50 AM
I was hoping their would be an early morning pissing contest...

Veritas
10/2/2008, 09:04 AM
The book is not "about" Barack Obama. It contains a discussion of his candidacy for President in the context of other campaigns for political office by African Americans. Considering it was well-known that she was writing said book, you'd have to be pretty ****ing stupid to think she wouldn't include anything in it about the first major-party candidate with a significant quantum of African descent.
The books title is: Breakthough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama

Yeah, that's not about Obama at all. :rolleyes:

Books about winners sell better than books about losers. Ergo, Barack winning the election means more book sales, especially given that it is to be released on Inauguration Day.

How is this not the very definition of "conflict of interest?" If the shoe were on the other foot, that **** Katie Couric would be putting on her pruniest face to whine about it.

That said, given the way McCain's camp is ****ing up their campaign and their handling of Palin, the impartiality (or lack thereof) on the part of the debate moderator is a minor concern.

JohnnyMack
10/2/2008, 09:22 AM
I would have to think the McCain has been aware of who the moderator is and what project she's working on for a while now. If they were that opposed to it, wouldn't they have actively worked at having her removed?

Veritas
10/2/2008, 09:44 AM
I would have to think the McCain has been aware of who the moderator is and what project she's working on for a while now. If they were that opposed to it, wouldn't they have actively worked at having her removed?
I'm beginning to believe that McCain's campaign is controlled by a Magic 8-Ball.

Viking Kitten
10/2/2008, 09:50 AM
Wow.

Palin can't hold her own against Katie frickin' Couric, because Couric's a lib.

Now Palin is getting an unfair shake in the debate because the moderator's cousin doensn't like her.
What's next...tricky wind in the debate auditorium? :mack: :D

Partial Qualifier
10/2/2008, 09:53 AM
If you're an American citizen, you're an "American" -- we're going backwards with the "African-American" qualifier. "Hello - I am Partial Qualifier, and I'm a British-American!" Creating more division amongst us with these qualifiers is ridiculous.

I'm not a black dude but if I were, I wouldn't be down with the whole "here's our African-American Champion".

In most regards, Barack is as "white" as I am -- hell, he's 'whiter' than i am in many regards -- he's got virtually nothing in common with most of the traditional "African-Americans" in this nation, the people who are descendants of slaves. He's a descendant of slaveOWNERS and grew up in a fairly priviledged setting, so racially identifying with him on those grounds would seem sortof hollow to me if I were a black dude and generations of MY descendants were subject to slavery, racism and discrimination.

How long til we get past all this and we're all just "Americans"? With the guidelines in place now, the only group who can legitimately claim the title of "Americans" are called "Native Americans" or worse yet, "Indians".

How does this relate to the question at hand? I have no frickin' clue. :O

The Maestro
10/2/2008, 09:59 AM
I'm beginning to believe that McCain's campaign is controlled by a Magic 8-Ball.


Heh. So true.

My thoughts are that Ifill won't be biased against Palin...she is a pro...but it is just odd with the book issue.

Having said that, the winner tonight will be the one that talks less. If I were Palin I would be VERY brief and defer the remaining time to Biden. He can talk about being shot at in harm's way, tell how Patriots want to pay more taxes and rattle off some great speech he wrote like, "Ask not what your country can do for you...".

McCain v Obama was boring. Everyone will be watching tonight for face plants from both candidates.

Frozen Sooner
10/2/2008, 10:36 AM
The books title is: Breakthough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama

Yeah, that's not about Obama at all. :rolleyes:

Books about winners sell better than books about losers. Ergo, Barack winning the election means more book sales, especially given that it is to be released on Inauguration Day.

How is this not the very definition of "conflict of interest?" If the shoe were on the other foot, that **** Katie Couric would be putting on her pruniest face to whine about it.

That said, given the way McCain's camp is ****ing up their campaign and their handling of Palin, the impartiality (or lack thereof) on the part of the debate moderator is a minor concern.

Simply because the title mentions a person means that it's about the person?

If I wrote a book called "Soonerfans: A collection of morons and scallywags in the age of OklahomaTuba" would that book be about Tuba?

This is just more expectation-lowering. It's at the point now where some of you will claim Palin wins tonight if she simply dosn't poop herself. And if she does, it'll be because of bias.

And since this is now one more political opinion post than I had planned to make between the middle of September and Nov 4th, I'll bow out now.

leavingthezoo
10/2/2008, 10:43 AM
Simply because the title mentions a person means that it's about the person?

If I wrote a book called "Soonerfans: A collection of morons and scallywags in the age of OklahomaTuba" would that book be about Tuba?


well, technically, it could be. :D


i'm kidding tuba. i'd probably get a bigger chapter. :O

GrapevineSooner
10/2/2008, 10:49 AM
Well, for anyone who thinks some journalists can't put their own personal biases aside for the good of fair debate, might I interject that Tim Russert was a Democrat, but still universally respected by both sides because of his ability to not be afraid to ask tough questions?

Let's wait and see how Gwen moderates this, mmkay?

Veritas
10/2/2008, 11:12 AM
FWIW I think that IfIll is a professional and will be fine, however there is still a clear conflict of interest and to declare it otherwise the board liberals are doing the same gymnastics that the conservatives (myself included) have tried to do vis a vis Palin's interviews.

I'll give you guys "Palin's interviews were a cluster**** regardless of bias" if you'll give me a "Ifill's obvious conflict of interest." Both statements are true.

TheHumanAlphabet
10/2/2008, 12:14 PM
I'm not a black dude but if I were, I wouldn't be down with the whole "here's our African-American Champion".

In most regards, Barack is as "white" as I am -- hell, he's 'whiter' than i am in many regards -- he's got virtually nothing in common with most of the traditional "African-Americans" in this nation, the people who are descendants of slaves. He's a descendant of slaveOWNERS and grew up in a fairly priviledged setting, so racially identifying with him on those grounds would seem sortof hollow to me if I were a black dude and generations of MY descendants were subject to slavery, racism and discrimination.

How long til we get past all this and we're all just "Americans"? With the guidelines in place now, the only group who can legitimately claim the title of "Americans" are called "Native Americans" or worse yet, "Indians".

How does this relate to the question at hand? I have no frickin' clue. :O

With you on that... Oblahma is more "african-american" than those that use that moniker - at least he has a direct ancestor in africa. However, he has nothing on the "struggle" that ensued by the "african-americans" for the civil rights they have today. He is a product of an international relationship which has no ties to the struggles persued by "african-americans" brought to this country against their will - other than his family or mother was liberal.

I agree - we are not hyphanted americans, if you have citizenship in this country you are an American. You may be of so and so descendant, but nonetheless, you are still an American.

TheHumanAlphabet
10/2/2008, 12:15 PM
Heh. So true.

My thoughts are that Ifill won't be biased against Palin...she is a pro...but it is just odd with the book issue.

Having said that, the winner tonight will be the one that talks less. If I were Palin I would be VERY brief and defer the remaining time to Biden. He can talk about being shot at in harm's way, tell how Patriots want to pay more taxes and rattle off some great speech he wrote like, "Ask not what your country can do for you...".

McCain v Obama was boring. Everyone will be watching tonight for face plants from both candidates.

Maybe he will comment on FDRs new deal speech on television...

soonerscuba
10/2/2008, 12:38 PM
FWIW I think that IfIll is a professional and will be fine, however there is still a clear conflict of interest and to declare it otherwise the board liberals are doing the same gymnastics that the conservatives (myself included) have tried to do vis a vis Palin's interviews.

I'll give you guys "Palin's interviews were a cluster**** regardless of bias" if you'll give me a "Ifill's obvious conflict of interest." Both statements are true.This is my exact same thought. I don't really care, because it's possible to be objective as a moderator even if you support one of the candidates (they always do), but when you have a book in the pipe, it might be good to let someone know. I miss Russert.

That said, I think Palin will be fine tonight as it will be structured to a crisp. I think that Obama-Biden just need to keep up the organizational efforts and put the rhetoric on cruise-control, because when Missouri is in play, Republicans better hope for a miracle. Biden will not be looking to make any waves tonight.

mdklatt
10/2/2008, 01:19 PM
Biden will not be looking to make any waves tonight.

Good luck with that. Even Frank Keating is all, "man, that guy sure puts his foot in his mouth a lot".

:D

Veritas
10/2/2008, 02:17 PM
I think that Obama-Biden just need to keep up the organizational efforts.
Yup. Just let the McCain campaign continue doing what it's doing.

JohnnyMack
10/2/2008, 02:18 PM
Yup. Just let the McCain campaign continue doing what it's doing.

Circling the drain?

Frozen Sooner
10/2/2008, 02:24 PM
FWIW I think that IfIll is a professional and will be fine, however there is still a clear conflict of interest and to declare it otherwise the board liberals are doing the same gymnastics that the conservatives (myself included) have tried to do vis a vis Palin's interviews.

I'll give you guys "Palin's interviews were a cluster**** regardless of bias" if you'll give me a "Ifill's obvious conflict of interest." Both statements are true.

I would agree that there is a minor conflict of interest. Then again, you could say the same about any moderator who thinks that there's anything to gain by one candidate winning-even to the point of thinking that the economy will improve. The question is whether the conflict of interest is either relevant or impactful.

I think both of us agree that it's neither. And I don't think the McCain campaign thinks it's either relevant or impactful either, as they agreed to Ifill and have made no protest about her being the moderator to my knowledge. Again, it's just lowering expectations.

King Crimson
10/2/2008, 02:30 PM
i watch Lehrer a couple times a week and i think Ifill is very professional and handles many type interview situations with considerable fairness. i think she'll be fine; admittedly, this is a pretty big stage. but, she's far more professionally than *just the author of a book about Obama*. she's a professional journalist night in/night out on Jim Lehrer...despite what others want to say about her "opportunism" and bias. I wonder how many had even heard of her before this?

However, i still can't believe the McCain people agreed to it either: a. knowing the book was coming out or b. if they didn't know the book was coming out it's a blunder of fact-check/research.

It could be that McCain has been on Lehrer (it's certainly likely) and had no problems with Ifill.

Fugue
10/2/2008, 02:36 PM
gwenifill

sounds Welsh

never trust those people

:gary:

Veritas
10/2/2008, 02:38 PM
Circling the drain?
Circling the urinal cake is more like it, although you and I may disagree was to why.

The press strategy has been abysmal. Rather than put Palin on the conservative talk circuit immediately following the convention, they had her holed up for two weeks. She then goes on Gibson and with the help of some clever editing, manages to look like an idiot. Then she goes on with Couric and can't manage to put together a coherent answer.

So what the hell happened in those two weeks? Your perception was that they were keeping her away from interviews because she was a liability. My perception is that they were coaching her up during those two weeks, trying to fill her head with all the preferred answers to every question that could be asked.

Palin emerges from this boot camp and goes into interviews with Gibson and Couric. She gets asked questions...freezes up. You perceive it as her being a total moron. I perceive it has her doing a "hard disk seek" to remember how she's supposed to answer. You can literally see her eyes go up and to the left like people do when they're racking their brains.

The problem, IMO, is one of personality management. Palin would be much better off answering questions the way Sarah Palin would answer, not Sarah Palin, running mate of John McCain.

You can see this same poor personality management with McCain. A great example is McCain's reaction to when Whoopi asked him if she needed to be worried about slavery. Rather than visibly swallowing his rage at such an insult, he should have told her that a) that was the most monumentally stupid question he'd ever been asked and b) that such a question showed no respect for the civil rights advances of the last 50 years and that c) it was Democratic politicians (Strom Thurmond, George Wallace) who posed the strongest opposition to the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's.

(BTW, I'm not at all trying to strawman your perceptions...just trying to condense what I've read)

JohnnyMack
10/2/2008, 03:20 PM
Circling the urinal cake is more like it, although you and I may disagree was to why.

The press strategy has been abysmal. Rather than put Palin on the conservative talk circuit immediately following the convention, they had her holed up for two weeks. She then goes on Gibson and with the help of some clever editing, manages to look like an idiot. Then she goes on with Couric and can't manage to put together a coherent answer.

So what the hell happened in those two weeks? Your perception was that they were keeping her away from interviews because she was a liability. My perception is that they were coaching her up during those two weeks, trying to fill her head with all the preferred answers to every question that could be asked.

Palin emerges from this boot camp and goes into interviews with Gibson and Couric. She gets asked questions...freezes up. You perceive it as her being a total moron. I perceive it has her doing a "hard disk seek" to remember how she's supposed to answer. You can literally see her eyes go up and to the left like people do when they're racking their brains.

The problem, IMO, is one of personality management. Palin would be much better off answering questions the way Sarah Palin would answer, not Sarah Palin, running mate of John McCain.

You can see this same poor personality management with McCain. A great example is McCain's reaction to when Whoopi asked him if she needed to be worried about slavery. Rather than visibly swallowing his rage at such an insult, he should have told her that a) that was the most monumentally stupid question he'd ever been asked and b) that such a question showed no respect for the civil rights advances of the last 50 years and that c) it was Democratic politicians (Strom Thurmond, George Wallace) who posed the strongest opposition to the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's.

(BTW, I'm not at all trying to strawman your perceptions...just trying to condense what I've read)

I think the selection of Palin was a genuine shock to not only to all of us, but to the McCain camp as well. I think there had to have been some eye bulging, mouth dropping periods of stunned silence within that camp. Along with one or two OMGWTFARGHH!!! moments. I agree that they simply didn't know how to handle her. They didn't know how to roll her out. The media started chomping like gators when she was announced and the McCain camp figured the smart thing to do was to keep her in very controlled environments and very far away from the press. They did allow her to do an interview with Hannity and she did better than she did in any other interview in terms of seeming relaxed, but she still relied almost entirely on basic talking points and was at times flustered even with him. She did good in her speech at the RNC too, so it seems when she's in her element she can thrive, but the Gibson interview (regardless of how you feel it was edited) and certainly the Couric interview didn't help her at all. Like Couric or not, someone was going to go after SP and ask her pointedly tough questions and you and I can both agree that Palin just didn't come off very well. She appeared to be in over head. Now it's not just me saying that, but George Will & David Brooks. Kathleen Parker said she should step down. We're less than 40 days away from this election (mercifully) coming to an end and George Will, champion of all that is conservative said she isn't ready. Palin was supposed to be the conservative rudder that "energized the base" and pushed it forward towards victory. Meanwhile people like me and LAS (who are both communist, terrorist, puppy hating Muslim liars) both laughed at the Palin pick and said it wasn't about energizing the base, it was about pulling in Clinton supporters. If McCain had taken Kay Bailey Hutchison I honestly think he could have won this thing. She's the kind of experienced, centered female that McCain needed. Instead he picked Palin and unless she comes out tonight channeling Zig Ziglar, Dale Carnegie and Ronald Reagan the Republicans are likely going down.

PDXsooner
10/2/2008, 03:30 PM
i think it's safe to assume that every moderator has a horse in the race - in other words, every moderator has personal beliefs and votes a certain way. the question is whether or not they can moderate and ask questions in a fair and unbiased way. people are making a big deal out of nothing.

The Maestro
10/2/2008, 06:42 PM
If McCain had taken Kay Bailey Hutchison I honestly think he could have won this thing. She's the kind of experienced, centered female that McCain needed. Instead he picked Palin and unless she comes out tonight channeling Zig Ziglar, Dale Carnegie and Ronald Reagan the Republicans are likely going down.

I couldn't agree more.

And heh!

def_lazer_fc
10/2/2008, 06:43 PM
How long til we get past all this and we're all just "Americans"? With the guidelines in place now, the only group who can legitimately claim the title of "Americans" are called "Native Americans" or worse yet, "Indians".


in a perfect world, it would be like that. but unfortunately a lot of people still see race before anything else. i've been working in the progressive town of alva for about two months now and have heard everything from the tame, "i just don't think america needs a black president right now", to the more disturbing, "C.H.A.N.G.E. = canya help a n****r get elected". hell, i had the pleasure of overhearing a conversation about an indian couple who runs a motel up here and how they smell like ****, etc. if this is small town values, i'll take the city any day.

Veritas
10/2/2008, 06:56 PM
They did allow her to do an interview with Hannity and she did better than she did in any other interview in terms of seeming relaxed, but she still relied almost entirely on basic talking points and was at times flustered even with him.
Yeah, he threw her total softballs.

I agree 100% w/ the rest of your post.

As an aside, my super-religious right wing parents are in love with Palin. I should post the bull**** my mom has been forwarding me. Off the deep end, and then a little bit more.

Rogue
10/2/2008, 07:14 PM
My Mom too, Veritas.

GrapevineSooner
10/2/2008, 10:48 PM
Let's wait and see how Gwen moderates this, mmkay?

And upon further review, I think she did an OK job. None of her questions made me stand up and yell, "LIBERAL BIAS!!!!"

Well, in part because my daughter was already asleep. ;)

But seriously, I thought she did OK.

Rogue
10/3/2008, 05:21 AM
Well, she didn't seem too biased, but she didn't moderate very well.
Hell, I think they just disregarded 1/2 her questions.

mdklatt
10/3/2008, 09:54 AM
Well, she didn't seem too biased, but she didn't moderate very well.
Hell, I think they just disregarded 1/2 her questions.

Candidate: Do you mind if I answer a completely unrelated question?

Ifill: Go ahead.


Lame.

BoonesFarmSooner
10/3/2008, 09:59 AM
This guy should be moderating the debates

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/full-metal-jacket-ermey.jpg


"I'm asking the F'ing Questions around here!"

mdklatt
10/3/2008, 10:02 AM
This guy should be moderating the debates


How about Judge Judy, Judge Mathis, Judge Joe Brown, etc.? They don't suffer bull**** lightly.

badger
10/3/2008, 10:13 AM
Yeah, but it's a sign of a good debater that has control of the room. Thus, they were both on last night and greatly disappointed those wanting fireworks and freaky responses.