Who Embellishes Their National Championship Claims and Who Does Not

[SoonerEmpire]

Found the following from someone who goes by the name War Eagle Atlanta and thought it was pretty good!

From: http://www.fanblogs.com/ncaa/007617.php

Who Embellishes Their National Championship Claims and Who Does Not

Faithful readers of fanblogs will notice that a lot of what this article contains has been stated by me in the past. That's because I thought it as being so well-written that I could regurgitate it once again in order to preempt any more uniform threads from popping up like weeds in the parched earth here at fanblogs during the dry season.

The bee in my bonnet about national championships came last spring when Washington tried to slip one through the back door 47 years after the fact (http://www.fanblogs.com/washington/006968.php). Since then, I've quit wearing bonnets and have educated myself on the history of the national championship. I now feel qualified to be the final arbiter of which teams' national championship claims are legit, and which are as bogus as a Jeff Spicoli quip.

Here are the qualifications that I will use:

1) Only current Divison 1-A (FBS) teams with three or more MNCs will be considered.

2) Only AP championships (1934, 1936-present) UP championships (1935, 1950-1957) UPI championships (1958-1995) USA Today/ESPN championships (1997-present) and BCS championships (1998-present) are counted. However, prior to 1950, before the AP and UP polls ran concurrently, I will accept a preponderance of the other selectors. In other words, if your team claims MNCs from selectors not listed here, they are illegitimate. If none of this makes sense, just read on and complain about it later.

3) No back-dated titles will be considered. Using the definitions in (2) above, that means no MNCs before 1934. If you still don't know what a back-dated title is, sign up for my remedial newsletter at my link below.

4) Date utilized is primarily taken from College Football Data Warehouse (http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/index.php).


I, Richard Dawson, and the Survey says!!!


Notre Dame, 12 NCs claimed, 1924, 1929, 1930, 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1953, 1966, 1973, 1977, 1988. First three titles back-dated, 1953 illegitimate. Real total, 8 titles. Talk about winning one for the Gipper, they won three BEFORE the Gipper--and before national championships ever existed. One third of your titles bogus--pretty shabby.

Alabama, 12 NCs claimed, 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934, 1941, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1992. First 3 titles back-dated, 1934 and 1941 titles illegitimate. Real total, 7 titles. Bama is famous for throwing everything that sticks into the trophy cabinet. If you want a more detailed analysis of the Tide, read this (http://www.trackemtigers.com/2007/11/22/153316/48).

USC, 10 NCs claimed, 1928, 1931, 1932, 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974, 1978, 2003, 2004. First 3 titles back-dated, all the rest legitimate. Real total, 7 titles. Not bad, other than the back-dated ones. Let's see: 60s and 70s, got that covered; 21st century--check. Hey, what happened to the 80s and 90s???

Michigan, 7 NCs claimed, 1901, 1902, 1923, 1933, 1947, 1948, 1997. First 4 titles back-dated, the rest legitimate. Real total, 3 titles. Oh, snap! Don't worry, Go Blue. Batting .429 in the major leagues earns you bazillions a year...

Oklahoma, 7 NCs claimed, 1950, 1955, 1956, 1974, 1975, 1985, 2000. All legitimate! Real total, 7 titles. The first perfectly honest team. Naturally, OU owes Texas for all this glory--not!

Minnesota, 6 NCs claimed, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960 All legit! Real total, 6 titles. But what are you guys thinking about doing for the next half of the 20th century???

Pittsburgh, 6 NCs claimed, 1910, 1916, 1918, 1936, 1937, 1976. First 3 titles back-dated, 1936 illegitimate, other 2 fine. Real total, 2 titles. Only 33% of your claimed titles for real? We haven't seen this kind of illegitimacy outside of the Mugabe administration...

Miami, 5 NCs claimed, 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001. All legit. Real total, 5 titles. Still can't figure out how you got the nod in 1983 over a far superior Auburn team...

Nebraska, 5 NCs claimed, 1970, 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997. All legit. Real total, 5 titles. Solid! Can't figure out why they can't duplicate this kind of success in the other corn-growing states...

Ohio State, 5 NCs claimed, 1942, 1954, 1957, 1968, 2002. All legit. Real total, 5 titles. Best in the Big 10(11). Best ever: Woody or The Vest?

Army, 4 NCs claimed, 1914, 1944, 1945, 1946. First is back-dated, the rest legit. Real total, 3 titles. Gee, if we could only have another World War to drain the nation's manpower again...

GA Tech, 4 NCs claimed, 1917, 1928, 1952, 1990. First 2 titles back-dated. 1952 illegitimate. 1990 legit. Real total, 1 title. "I'm a Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech and a helluva embellisher..."

Illinois, 4 NCs claimed, 1914, 1919, 1923, 1927. All back-dated! Oh come on! Are you kidding me? Real total, ZIP!!! However, as luck would have it, the Zook era has arrived.

Tennessee, 4 NCs claimed, 1938, 1950, 1951, 1998. 1938 and 1950 illegitimate, the rest legit. Real total, 2 titles. The SEC's historic 2nd best team follows the SEC's historic best team, Alabama--in title embellishment.

Texas, 4 NCs claimed, 1963, 1969, 1970, 2005, all legit! Real total, 4 titles. Thanks Daryl Royal. Still wondering why they're so woefully behind Oklahoma in this category...

California, 3 NCs claimed, 1920, 1921, 1922. All back-dated! What?? Real total, ZERO titles. See admonishment to Illinois...

Michigan State, 3 NCs claimed, 1952, 1965, 1966. 1966 is illegitimate, although you probably got hosed! Real total, 2 titles. Not bad--only one behind your Ann Arbor cousins...

There you have it. Now let me have it. WEA will now take your stinging rebukes:

Posted by War Eagle Atlanta (http://wareagleatlanta.blogspot.com/)

[oumartin]

ha,
Ohio State was claiming 13 as late as last year. I heard Musburger say so.

who does.
oh lets see, Alabama, USC, Ohio State, and probably countless others.

Who does not. Notre Dame and Oklahoma

[okiewaker]

Sam must of had something to do with this because our efficiency once again is tops,







or close

[sooner518]

pretty cool article. he says in this article that Bama has 7, but then he links to a post where he breaks it down even further and says they have only 6.

good to see that we're legit!

[SoonerKnight]

There's only one OU!

[tooslow]

I live in TN, and have seen MANY Bama fans wear shirts that say, "Got 12? WE DO!!" I've tried to have an intelligent discussion and point out that some of those are bogus. I give them a good example of schools listing National Championships, you know, OU having 17 National Championships, but only claiming 7, due to most of them being bogus. Just doesn't work with these Bama guys. They'll stake claim to a title that was awarded by the same entity(Berryman) that awarded OU a championship..... in 2003!! :D

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

[MichiganSooner]

What does he mean by "back-dated."

While OU was on the 47 game win streak, who won the national titles that we did not win and why, how?

[Jacie]

Teams that don't claim bogus titles:

Oklahoma, nebbish, cocaines, bucknuts and saxet

Teams that claim bogus titles:

Everyone else

[KingBarry]

Doesn't Ole Miss claim a bevy of national championships? I seem to remember them coming on our message boards before the 99 Indy Bowl and saying things like:

"Wow, what a great match up of historical powers! Oklahoma with 6 national championships, and Missippi with 7!" or something like that.

Seems liike they tried to claim the same as us, one more then us, something like that.
--------------------------

OK, I checked a couple of sites, and they show Ole Miss claiming 3 national championships in 1959, 60 and 62. They are all bestowed by minor selectors, so none of them are legitimate.

I guess I was thinking of them saying something llike "Two teams with nine national championships." Seems like we just laughed at them.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

I posted this in another thread, but it's worth mentioning here:


I did the math the other day and figured out we'd have something like 12 legitimate (AP/UPI/BCS) national championships if we'd won all the bowl games where there's been one on the line.

By my estimation:

- TGWWDNSO
- 2004 Sugar Bowl
- 1988 Orange Bowl
- 1985 Orange Bowl (Surely, in the eyes of the voters a win by #2 OU over #4 Washington would've trumped #1 BYU's victory over a 6-5 Michigan team)
- 1978 Orange Bowl

[boomrsoonr]

This needs to be a sticky!!!

[LSUdeek]

LSU really has 4 national championships. 1908, 1958, 2003, 2007. In 1908, CFBDW for some reason recognizes Pennsylvania, but look at the records at the end of the year:

http://www.shrpsports.com/cf/stand.php?season=1908&conf=Ind&week=Wk%2012&B1=Submit

[badger]

LSU really has 4 national championships. 1908, 1958, 2003, 2007. In 1908, CFBDW for some reason recognizes Pennsylvania, but look at the records at the end of the year:

http://www.shrpsports.com/cf/stand.php?season=1908&conf=Ind&week=Wk%2012&B1=Submit

Deek, in reference to your avatar, you guys do know that Nebbish has a few of those crystal footballs, too, right? It was one of their bragging points when they were announcing during pregame at the 2001 ou-neb game. They were all like "We have the most Sears trophies!" (no idea who sponsors it now) or something like that.

[LSUdeek]

Deek, in reference to your avatar, you guys do know that Nebbish has a few of those crystal footballs, too, right? It was one of their bragging points when they were announcing during pregame at the 2001 ou-neb game. They were all like "We have the most Sears trophies!" (no idea who sponsors it now) or something like that.

http://www.afca.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9300&ATCLID=289347

I guess Nebbish does have a couple of coaches' trophies according to this link.

In fact, Miami has 3, Nebbish has 3, and Fl0rida has 2.



1986 Penn State- Joe Paterno
1987 Miami (Fla.)- Jimmy Johnson
1988 Notre Dame- Lou Holtz
1989 Miami (Fla.)- Dennis Erickson

1990 Georgia Tech- Bobby Ross
1991 Washington- Don James
1992 Alabama- Gene Stallings
1993 Florida State- Bobby Bowden
1994 Nebraska- Tom Osborne
1995 Nebraska- Tom Osborne
1996 Florida- Steve Spurrier
1997 Nebraska- Tom Osborne
1998 Tennessee- Phil Fulmer
1999 Florida State- Bobby Bowden

2000 Oklahoma- Bob Stoops
2001 Miami (Fla.)- Larry Coker
2002 Ohio State- Jim Tressel
2003 LSU- Nick Saban
2004 USC- Pete Carroll
2005 Texas- Mack Brown
2006 Florida- Urban Meyer

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

Deek, in reference to your avatar, you guys do know that Nebbish has a few of those crystal footballs, too, right? It was one of their bragging points when they were announcing during pregame at the 2001 ou-neb game. They were all like "We have the most Sears trophies!" (no idea who sponsors it now) or something like that.

The American Football Coaches Association Trophy (the big crystal ball, which has also been called by sponsor names The Gerrits Foundation Trophy, the Pepsi Trophy, the McDonald's Trophy, the Sears Trophy, the Circuit City Trophy, and currently, the ADT Trophy), has been awarded every year since 1986 (which means we missed having two by one lousy year...damn).

So as far as having a pair of balls (in response to badger's reference to LSUdeek's avatar)...the following schools have 2+

Nebbish (3)
Miami (3)
Free Shoe (2)
Florida (2)
LSU (2)

However, deek, you are the only school with two BCS National Championships (and legitimate post-1998...lookin' at you, SUC)...so props for that.

[the_ouskull]

I think that embellishing National Championships is like the "I'm a football fan" version of lying about the girls that you've f*cked. Eventually, you're going to get caught with your pants down. As for the party that catches you; will they be impressed or not?

At OU, they're impressed. No lying. Just action.

At Alabama, when that dude drops his pants, it's a chick.

the_ouskull

[badger]

I guess to be fair to Nebbish, they DID have the most balls then :D Of course, they lost all of their balls when after they won the coin toss in the 2002 Rose Bowl against Miami.

[GottaHavePride]

The dude's math is off by one. USC only has 6 titles. 03 belongs to LSU because of the BCS.

[bluedogok]

The dude's math is off by one. USC only has 6 titles. 03 belongs to LSU because of the BCS.

Well, the writer did state that he was counting both AP and UPI/Coaches/BCS MHC's. As much as I hate to say it, 2003 does count for SUC since it was essentially a "split" title that year with SUC winning the AP and LSU winning the BCS using that as the basis.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

Well, the writer did state that he was counting both AP and UPI/Coaches/BCS MHC's. As much as I hate to say it, 2003 does count for SUC since it was essentially a "split" title that year with SUC winning the AP and LSU winning the BCS using that as the basis.

I just can't agree with that. By agreeing to be a part of the BCS System (which all the major conferences did, including the Pac-10), you automatically forfeit your claim to any title that's not conferred by the agreed-upon system in place at the time. You endorsed the BCS System to prevent AP/UPI split titles, and you can't reneg on what you signed up for just because it's more convenient to you later. To me, that's the whole essence of the arguement against embellishing national titles.

[GottaHavePride]

I just can't agree with that. By agreeing to be a part of the BCS System (which all the major conferences did, including the Pac-10), you automatically forfeit your claim to any title that's not conferred by the agreed-upon system in place at the time. You endorsed the BCS System to prevent AP/UPI split titles, and you can't reneg on what you signed up for just because it's more convenient to you later. To me, that's the whole essence of the arguement against embellishing national titles.

That's it exactly. All the conferences agreed to use the BCS to determine the champion. As soon as that happened, and non-BCS championship became irrelevant. USC wasn't even in the championship game. LSU won the 2003 championship. USC can suck it.

[bluedogok]

I was just stating that using the writers criteria, then the split 2003 title is valid.

Also, at that time wasn't the AP poll part of the BCS "formula"? So in effect, they were part of the system that the writers decided to vote against in "electing" SUC as the MNC in 2003.

[badger]

To be fair to USC... hey wait a sec, when have they played fair :mad:

Screw it. I was gonna say if we were the team left out and we had the chance to beat up Meat Chicken like any of the three of us could we might claim the championship, but it's the Trojans we're talking about here.


USC can suck it.

Yeah. :mad:

[birddog]

What does he mean by "back-dated."

While OU was on the 47 game win streak, who won the national titles that we did not win and why, how?

in reference to back-dating...

maybe they weren't recognized as champs at the time but later added it due to similar or better records than the recognized champ? anyone?

[boomrsoonr]

I was just stating that using the writers criteria, then the split 2003 title is valid.

Also, at that time wasn't the AP poll part of the BCS "formula"? So in effect, they were part of the system that the writers decided to vote against in "electing" SUC as the MNC in 2003.


The AP pulled out of the BCS either just prior to that season, or after that season started. I can't remember which. They disagreed with the BCS formula for ranking numbers 1 and 2, and felt they could do a better job. :rolleyes:

[badger]

in reference to back-dating...

maybe they weren't recognized as champs at the time but later added it due to similar or better records than the recognized champ? anyone?

Yeah - remember checks? Those paper things we used to use before credit cards and check cards took over? Think the opposite of where you'd put a future date on so you wouldn't have to pay until then, but still claim the merchandise now. These backdaters have already played those seasons without claiming a championship then, but are going back and saying that they really did get it then.

[bluedogok]

in reference to back-dating...

maybe they weren't recognized as champs at the time but later added it due to similar or better records than the recognized champ? anyone?

I thought they pulled out of the BCS formula because of the LSU/USC debacle.

[boomrsoonr]

I thought they pulled out of the BCS formula because of the LSU/USC debacle.


No, they pulled out before that. That's why the AP gave the title to suc while the putty tats got the BCS.

[bluedogok]

No, they pulled out before that. That's why the AP gave the title to suc while the putty tats got the BCS.

I think they pulled out because when we lost to LSU, Auburn was undefeated and they felt they should have been in the game. We had lost to K-State in the Big 12 CC game.
That was all in the same season (2003), that is why I thought they pulled out after for the 2004 season.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

They pulled out after the 2004 season, after the Auburn debacle, and 5 undefeated teams going into bowl season. But the real nail in the coffin was Mack's lobbying to have saxeT in the Rose Bowl over Cal. A lot of the voters were pretty upset by that, and asked the AP to remove itself from the BCS System. AP was happy to oblige.

[Big Red Ron]

The dude's math is off by one. USC only has 6 titles. 03 belongs to LSU because of the BCS.
Yep, and this really should be a sticky for our visiting friends.

[Big Red Ron]

Basically, any championship claimed before 1938 is bogus.