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RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/1/2008, 12:33 AM
An approach to consider:


September 28, 2008

Everybody’s Business THE NEW YORK TIMES.COM

In Financial Food Chains, Little Guys Can’t Win By BEN STEIN

IMAGINE, if you will, that a man who had much to do with creating the present credit crisis now says he is the man to fix this giant problem, and that his work is so important that he will need a trillion dollars or so of your money. Then add that this man thinks he is so indispensable that he wants Congress to forbid any judicial or administrative questioning of anything he does with your dollars.

You might think of a latter-day Lenin or Fidel Castro, but you would be far afield. Instead, you should be thinking of Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. and the rapidly disintegrating United States of America, right here and now.

But I am getting ahead of myself. First, I am furious at what the traders, speculators, hedge funds and the government have done to everyone who is saving and investing for retirement and future security. Millions of us did nothing wrong, according to the accepted wisdom of the age. We saved. We put a large part of our money into the stock market, as we were urged to do. Because the market wasn’t at ridiculously high levels, it seemed prudent to invest in broad indexes, foreign indexes and small- and large-cap indexes.

Now we have had the rug pulled out from under us. Our retirements have been put into severe jeopardy. The “earnings” part of those price-to-earnings ratios turns out to have been fiction for some financial companies, which normally account for a big part of total corporate earnings. In fact, earnings of giant finance players were often wildly negative, creating a situation rarely seen since the Great Depression, when the aggregate earnings of the Dow 30 were negative.

The current negativity occurred because of wild, casino-type operations of big finance players, creating liabilities way beyond anything we could have reasonably expected. This looks a lot like theft on a spectacular scale — of our wallets, our peace of mind, our futures.

Second, according to what I hear from my betters in the world of finance, the most serious problems are not with the bundles of subprime mortgages themselves — a large but not lethal quantum as far as I can tell — but with derivatives contracts tied to subprime and other dicey debt. These contracts are superficially an attempt to “insure” against risks of default, hence the name “credit-default swaps.” In fact, they are an immense wager — which anyone with lots of money or borrowing ability can enter — about how mortgage-backed bonds, leveraged loan bonds, student loan bonds, credit card bonds and the like will perform.

These wagers entail amounts many times larger than the total of subprime loans. In fact, there are roughly $62 trillion in credit-default swap derivatives out there, compared with about $1 trillion of subprime mortgages. These derivatives are “weapons of financial mass destruction,” in the prophetic words of Warren E. Buffett. (Apparently believing that the worst is over, at least for one big investment bank, Mr. Buffett is now investing in Goldman Sachs.)

The swaps market has been unregulated. It has been just a lot of people making bets with one another. Some of them made incredibly fortunate payoff wagers against the mortgage bonds, using credit-default swaps as their wagering vehicle. I am not sure who the big winners are, but they are out there, and the gains were big enough to cripple the part of Wall Street on the losing side of the bets.

Almost no one (except Mr. Buffett) saw this coming, at least not on this scale. But let’s get back to the man of the hour. Why didn’t Mr. Paulson, the Treasury secretary, see it? He was once the head of Goldman Sachs, an immense player in the swaps world. Didn’t people at Treasury have a clue? If they didn’t, what was going on in their heads? If they did, why didn’t they do something about it a year ago, when saving the world would have been a lot cheaper?

If Mr. Paulson and Ben S. Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, didn’t see this train coming, what else have they missed? What other freight train is barreling down the track at us?

All of this would be bad enough. But by far the most terrifying item I read in my morning paper last week was this: Mr. Paulson demanded that Congress forbid judicial review of his decisions on use of the money in the mortgage bailout. This would amount to an abrogation of the Constitution. Not only would his decisions be sacrosanct and above the law, but so would the actions of his pals in the banking world in connection with this bailout.

The people whose conduct got us into this catastrophe have not only taken our money, hopes and peace of mind, but they apparently also want a trillion or so more dollars to put into their Wall Street Buddy System Fund. This may be the most dangerous attack on the law in my lifetime. What anarchists even dared consider this plan? Thank heaven that minds more devoted to the Constitution on Capitol Hill are questioning this shocking request.

By the way, if we are actually thinking about tossing the Constitution out the window, why not simply annul these credit-default swap contracts? With that done, the incomprehensibly large liability of the banks would cease, and we wouldn’t need this staggering bailout. Shouldn’t we consider making the speculators pay some of the price?

WE have survived housing-price corrections before. Why is this one causing so much anguish? It must be the side bets, the credit-default swap bets, multiplying the effect of the housing downturn many times over. Maybe we should just get rid of these exotic bets and start again without them. “Insurance” on market moves is always a bad idea, because it does not tamp down market disruptions but instead greatly magnifies them — as in the disastrous effect of “portfolio insurance” in the 1987 crash.

Then there was Mr. Paulson’s insistence that there be no compensation caps for executives of companies being bailed out by the factory workers, the farmers, the schoolteachers and the medical doctors. He told a skeptical Congress on Tuesday that if these caps were put into place, bank executives simply wouldn’t participate in the bailout or sell us suckers their debts. Fine with me. If the banks are in good enough shape so that petulant executives can simply opt out rather than live on a few million a year, maybe we don’t need the bailout at all. Maybe we would be better off if those executives simply bailed out and were replaced by people with more sense and more patriotism.

One final little thought bubbles into my mind: Maybe the bailout should not be of the banks at all, but of homeowners themselves. Maybe if we make the government the buyer of last resort of homes, we will stabilize the markets, stabilize the debt associated with the markets and take the gain out of the credit-default swaps for the speculators. Yes, price would be a huge issue, but so it is for Mr. Paulson’s plan for buying debt from banks.

Why not? We do it for farmers. Why not for the individual homeowner? Oh, right. Because Treasury secretaries don’t know any of those people.

Ben Stein is a lawyer, writer, actor and economist. E-mail: [email protected].

SoonerKnight
10/1/2008, 02:43 AM
Great READ!!!!



spek

TUSooner
10/1/2008, 06:14 AM
For a long time I was apathetic about this whole credit crisis thing. I was willing to let the "experts" in DC figure it out. I'm now in the anti-bailout camp. I only wish the damage could be limited to the punks who thought up this crap.

The Maestro
10/1/2008, 07:19 AM
I always like Ben Stein's commentary. Makes things simple for simple guys like me.

Well, that and he hit on my wife when she worked at the Ritz Carlton here in Phoenix. She was disgusted, thankfully.

SoonerJack
10/1/2008, 07:57 AM
I'm with you TUSooner. Let's let personal responsibility and accountability rule the day for once.

swardboy
10/1/2008, 08:14 AM
NIce to know the House email server crashed.....

Veritas
10/1/2008, 09:04 AM
NIce to know the House email server crashed.....
The House has the SLOWEST web servers. I'm trying to email my representative to say, "Keep voting no" but the pages take minutes to load. I hit the URL about 30 seconds BEFORE I started typing this post. :rolleyes:

OUthunder
10/1/2008, 09:05 AM
For a long time I was apathetic about this whole credit crisis thing. I was willing to let the "experts" in DC figure it out. I'm now in the anti-bailout camp. I only wish the damage could be limited to the punks who thought up this crap.

Exactly. I wanna help small business more than anything. The big bankers and mortgage companies need to suffer like the rest of America is.

arenateam
10/1/2008, 09:52 AM
That's reeeallly long read...

SoonerDood
10/1/2008, 10:34 AM
I always like Ben Stein's commentary. Makes things simple for simple guys like me.

Well, that and he hit on my wife when she worked at the Ritz Carlton here in Phoenix. She was disgusted, thankfully.

in related news, HIS wife is from Idabel.

soonerbrat
10/1/2008, 10:39 AM
i like this idea:


The BirkPlan: $85 Billion ‘We Deserve It’ Dividend

I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend. To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend. Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000 .00. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college it’ll be there
Save in a bank create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car create jobs
Invest in the market capital drives growth
Pay for your parent’s medical insurance health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces. If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 (vote buy) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President. If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG ~ liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t. Sure it’s a crazy idea that can never work. But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

tommieharris91
10/1/2008, 10:43 AM
i like this idea:

<e-mail>

That is the third time that has shown up, and none of people who post it find the huge math error in it.

Veritas
10/1/2008, 10:46 AM
That is the third time that has shown up, and none of people who post it find the huge math error in it.
Yeah, like several orders of magnitude math error.

I like the Dave Ramsey plan:


The Common Sense Fix

Years of bad decisions and stupid mistakes have created an economic nightmare in this country,
but $700 billion in new debt is not the answer. As a tax-paying American citizen, I will not support
any congressperson who votes to implement such a policy. Instead, I submit the following three-
step Common Sense Plan.

I. INSURANCE
a. Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance.
Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the
world, creating immediate and needed liquidity.
b. In order for a company to accept the government-backed insurance, they must do two
things:
1. Rewrite any mortgage that is more than three months delinquent to a
6% fixed-rate mortgage.
a. Roll all back payments with no late fees or legal costs into the
balance. This brings homeowners current and allows them a
chance to keep their homes.
b. Cancel all prepayment penalties to encourage refinancing or
the sale of the property to pay off the bad loan. In the event of
foreclosure or short sale, the borrower will not be held liable
for any deficit balance. FHA does this now, and that
encourages mortgage companies to go the extra mile while
working with the borrower—again limiting foreclosures and
ruined lives.
2. Cancel ALL golden parachutes of EXISTING and FUTURE CEOs and
executive team members as long as the company holds these
government-insured bonds/mortgages. This keeps underperforming
executives from being paid when they don’t do their jobs.
c. This backstop will cost less than $50 billion—a small fraction of the current proposal.

II. MARK TO MARKET
a. Remove mark to market accounting rules for two years on only subprime Tier III
bonds/mortgages. This keeps companies from being forced to artificially mark down
bonds/mortgages below the value of the underlying mortgages and real estate.
b. This move creates patience in the market and has an immediate stabilizing effect on
failing and ailing banks—and it costs the taxpayer nothing.

III. CAPITAL GAINS TAX
a. Remove the capital gains tax completely. Investors will flood the real estate and stock
market in search of tax-free profits, creating tremendous—and immediate—liquidity in
the markets. Again, this costs the taxpayer nothing.
b. This move will be seen as a lightning rod politically because many will say it is helping
the rich. The truth is the rich will benefit, but it will be their money that stimulates the
economy. This will enable all Americans to have more stable jobs and retirement
investments that go up instead of down.

This is not a time for envy, and it’s not a time for politics. It’s time for all of us, as Americans, to
stand up, speak out, and fix this mess.



http://www.daveramsey.com/media/pdf/the_common_sense_fix.pdf

OUstudent4life
10/1/2008, 10:47 AM
Arithmat-owned.

That guy still stinks at long division.

soonerbrat
10/1/2008, 10:59 AM
That is the third time that has shown up, and none of people who post it find the huge math error in it.

i didn't actually read it, I just thought it would be funny.

royalfan5
10/1/2008, 11:00 AM
The House has the SLOWEST web servers. I'm trying to email my representative to say, "Keep voting no" but the pages take minutes to load. I hit the URL about 30 seconds BEFORE I started typing this post. :rolleyes:You could also mention that he should get a less ridiculous haircut after voting no.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/1/2008, 11:54 AM
Dave Ramsey is a VERY knowledgeable Real Estate person, Veritas. What chance does his advice have of being supported by Barney Frank, Nasty Pelosi and Harry Reid?

FaninAma
10/1/2008, 01:19 PM
700 billion dollars isn't going to fix a problem that consists of 32 trillion dollars worth of unraveling derivatives. It will only postpone and make the situtation worse. I used to be worried that my kids would be paying back all of the money that the US government had borrowed. Now I am convinced that the US government will default and erase the National Debt.....that is actually a best case scenario for my kids, IMO.

BTW, Dave Ramsey's plan would be inflationary but it would work. The FED and the various Western governments won't support it because it empowers individuals and lessens their control over the purse strings....ie their control over economic power.

Scott D
10/1/2008, 03:24 PM
I could get behind that Dave Ramsey plan. I would just add something that would be akin to prosecution of individuals that created this mess, including Paulson.

FaninAma
10/1/2008, 03:42 PM
I could get behind that Dave Ramsey plan. I would just add something that would be akin to prosecution of individuals that created this mess, including Paulson.

You got that right. Paulson telling us what we should do right now to get out of this mess is like the neighborhoods biggest drug dealer telling us what we need to do is just give him more access to drugs so all of his clients don't go on a rampage and take out the law-abiding citizens in the neighborhood.

He is using scare tactics and coersion to save his money addicted colleagues on Wall Street whie not recommending any real reform that will prevent the problem from happening again.

Veritas
10/1/2008, 03:45 PM
He is using scare tactics and coersion to save his money addicted colleagues on Wall Street whie not recommending any real reform that will prevent the problem from happening again.
Yup, and his ******* buddy Bush is parroting everything he says. "We have to do something now OMG." Yeah **** off Bush. You suck, you pretend conservative.

TUSooner
10/1/2008, 03:48 PM
Just when I told a friend the other night that true economic conservatism was dead, the no-bailout people showed me that it still has a pulse after all.

Ike
10/1/2008, 04:06 PM
Just when I told a friend the other night that true economic conservatism was dead, the no-bailout people showed me that it still has a pulse after all.

It may be a faint one. You'll know how faint by simply counting how many of them switch their vote on the 'sweetened' bailout bill the senate is trying to put before them.

StoopTroup
10/1/2008, 04:14 PM
I fell asleep reading that...

It's an excellent bedtime story IMO.

OUthunder
10/1/2008, 04:18 PM
Just when I told a friend the other night that true economic conservatism was dead, the no-bailout people showed me that it still has a pulse after all.

Yes, but it is very faint.

NormanPride
10/1/2008, 04:24 PM
Fan's right. We'll default and it will hurt.

All I can do is vote conservative, and get out of debt as fast as possible.

StoopTroup
10/1/2008, 04:26 PM
In this picture...Congress bails while the rest of us watch.

President Bush bought a new boat.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_C4oFHt_lB3U/SIRZ073VQYI/AAAAAAAAEkk/PHhGtuF8cDI/DSC03542.JPG

Veritas
10/1/2008, 05:05 PM
I think it's very revealing that we conservatives and liberals have been killing each other on this board over the election, but we're on the same page re: not letting this bailout go through.

Ike
10/1/2008, 05:13 PM
I think it's very revealing that we conservatives and liberals have been killing each other on this board over the election, but we're on the same page re: not letting this bailout go through.

Yeah...well, for a dirty lib such as myself, I honestly don't care much for either party. They've both become way too infested with ideologues and have chased out most of (if not all) the people that see the world for what it is. That and anyone on the hill with any clout, R or D, has been on the take for so long that they have no idea what's good for the country.


Also, I think that in all honesty, most of the people on the hill (and maybe in the WH too) really don't know much about much at all. So they are way more receptive in the first place to what the people that give them money tell them.





Oh, and on the way home, I heard on the radio that G.E. is claiming it needs a bailout. G. ****in'. E.
<edit>This could be totally wrong tho. Now that I look for it on the innerwebs, I'm not finding something quite like that. They are claiming that they are looking to raise more cash to "play offense" in the current market tho

royalfan5
10/1/2008, 05:33 PM
Yeah...well, for a dirty lib such as myself, I honestly don't care much for either party. They've both become way too infested with ideologues and have chased out most of (if not all) the people that see the world for what it is. That and anyone on the hill with any clout, R or D, has been on the take for so long that they have no idea what's good for the country.


Also, I think that in all honesty, most of the people on the hill (and maybe in the WH too) really don't know much about much at all. So they are way more receptive in the first place to what the people that give them money tell them.





Oh, and on the way home, I heard on the radio that G.E. is claiming it needs a bailout. G. ****in'. E.
<edit>This could be totally wrong tho. Now that I look for it on the innerwebs, I'm not finding something quite like that. They are claiming that they are looking to raise more cash to "play offense" in the current market tho

Berkshire Hathaway just pumped 3B into GE today, with the possibility of 3B more.

Chuck Bao
10/1/2008, 05:44 PM
I think it's very revealing that we conservatives and liberals have been killing each other on this board over the election, but we're on the same page re: not letting this bailout go through.

I'm definitely camped out on that page.

But I'm afraid that's not going to stop this bit of foolishness from going through!

Sweetners! More government handouts! Look something shiny!

God help us all. And, keep trying to call your representatives.

Chuck Bao
10/1/2008, 05:56 PM
GE Capital is a consumer debt machine: high tech, slick sales, efficient credit granting immediately on the spot machine. They are a force of human nature. They rolled into Thailand and took over consumer credit and then took over a Thai bank and I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I personally don't like credit card companies and their strategies and I'm not a big fan of GE Capital. Maybe, they should rethink the havoc left in the wake of their goal to maximize profits.

tommieharris91
10/1/2008, 06:21 PM
OK, I really don't like the thought of any public official getting this money and being able to do whatever they want with it. My stance changed, for now. There needs to be some third-party oversight.

Ike
10/1/2008, 06:39 PM
OK, I really don't like the thought of any public official getting this money and being able to do whatever they want with it. My stance changed, for now. There needs to be some third-party oversight.

In the interest of being actually factual, Stein's article might be old, or he is simply stating somewhat old information there. I believe that the deal before the house and senate does provide for some judicial oversight of King Henry's purse strings.

Frozen Sooner
10/1/2008, 06:50 PM
GE Capital is a consumer debt machine: high tech, slick sales, efficient credit granting immediately on the spot machine. They are a force of human nature. They rolled into Thailand and took over consumer credit and then took over a Thai bank and I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I personally don't like credit card companies and their strategies and I'm not a big fan of GE Capital. Maybe, they should rethink the havoc left in the wake of their goal to maximize profits.

Can't remember what book this is from, but it's always interesting to find out what line of business certain companies are really in.

GE may make lightbulbs, but that's not their primary revenue stream. Finance is. Same for General Motors (substitute cars for lightbulbs, smartass.)

McDonalds sells a bunch of hamburgers, but that's not their primary revenue stream. Their business model is based around real estate.

GottaHavePride
10/1/2008, 08:12 PM
Arithmat-owned.

That guy still stinks at long division.

Really. 85,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000.

First, knock six zeros off each number (you're factoring out 100,000)

You're left with 85,000 divided by 200.

You cannot divide 85,000 by 200 and wind up with five times MORE than 85,000.

Instead, knock two more zeros off.

850 divided by 2.

425.

$425 each.

NOT 425,000.



EDIT: and that's math eighth graders should be able to do IN THEIR HEADS.

Tulsa_Fireman
10/1/2008, 09:05 PM
But you don't understand...

http://www.adequatulence.com/hartman/vault/pictures/caveman-lawyer.jpg

I'm a caveman and I'm frightened by your strange mathematics and eighth grade level computations.

bluedogok
10/1/2008, 10:52 PM
Can't remember what book this is from, but it's always interesting to find out what line of business certain companies are really in.

GE may make lightbulbs, but that's not their primary revenue stream. Finance is. Same for General Motors (substitute cars for lightbulbs, smartass.)

McDonalds sells a bunch of hamburgers, but that's not their primary revenue stream. Their business model is based around real estate.
GE Capital is also the "bank" behind many other investment/capital companies.

For many years Harley-Davidson's most profitable division was their financial division followed by the merchandise licensing division. I think that changed a couple of years ago though.

SoonerKnight
10/1/2008, 11:53 PM
In the interest of being actually factual, Stein's article might be old, or he is simply stating somewhat old information there. I believe that the deal before the house and senate does provide for some judicial oversight of King Henry's purse strings.

He was referring to the original bill given to the house by the White House! It was 3 pages and gave sec of treasury unprecedented powers. Further exposing the Bush administrations ineptitude! McCain is soooooo not winning!

SoonerKnight
10/1/2008, 11:54 PM
11 posts

OUthunder
10/2/2008, 10:06 AM
Fan's right. We'll default and it will hurt.

All I can do is vote conservative, and get out of debt as fast as possible.

So your voting for Ron Paul eh, because Mccain is NO conservative. Bush certainly wasn't and is more a democrat than a republican during his last term.

Spend, spend spend.

OklahomaRed
10/2/2008, 02:42 PM
I like this idea of making the speculators (Wall Street Gamblers gambling with our money) pay the price.

[By the way, if we are actually thinking about tossing the Constitution out the window, why not simply annul these credit-default swap contracts? With that done, the incomprehensibly large liability of the banks would cease, and we wouldn’t need this staggering bailout. Shouldn’t we consider making the speculators pay some of the price?]