so how would you view our defense if

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

we hadn't been forcing fumbles on all of those long runs up the middle?

our defense is like a twinky right now, solid on the edges but squishy in the middle. the difference has been that 2 guys who have spent their entire careers in stoops' dog house resembling structure are out there making game changing plays (clayton and jackson). word of advice for opposing players: if you see an opposing 2, just get down.

the question remains whether we are going to face a team that can adequately exploit our linebackers enough to win (looking squarely at texas). basically you'd have to have a team that can take our DL 4 on 4 while consistently releasing a lineman onto reynolds. teams have broken some plays this year using this scheme (most of them ending in a fumble forced by a 2).

[The Maestro]

I have thought about this...bottom line for now is, they are forcing the TO's. BUT...the game they don't could be a problem.

I didn't have much as far as expectations for this defense. I figured we would have to outscore teams along the way to win. I still think that but the defense has done better than I thought. Not sure Texas has the playmakers to do much as far as exploiting us too much. At OSU? Different story.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I didn't have much as far as expectations for this defense. I figured we would have to outscore teams along the way to win. I still think that but the defense has done better than I thought.

i totally agree with you here. we lost the best linebacker out of an average LB corps and lost most of our secondary - 2 of our losses were underclassmen which normally hurts us badly. however, this defense is a much more aggressive beast on the ball than any D i can remember since strait left the building. stripping the ball is something that pays huge dividends during the season because opposing teams are forced to spend practice time working on it. to this point, we are on pace to rip through last year's FF numbers while having 1/3 of the INTs.

on a lighter note: there are a ton of teams that would die for a defense like this (mizzou anyone?), but this is OU and we just have different standards. the best D in another school's history might not even make our top 25.

[Frozen Sooner]

Something that will help us against Texas is that they don't have a tight end who can exploit Reynolds' weakness in pass coverage so far. Also, if Texas tries to block GK one-on-one, they're going to run into some problems trying to run up the middle, particularly as they're having a lot of trouble establishing a strong rushing attack.

Based on your analysis, I'd be more worried about OSU exploiting the middle of the defense than Texas. OSU is better than Texas at WR, TE, and RB. Texas has an edge on OL and QB.

[yermom]

i'm loving the TO margin for sure, but yeah the big plays are a touch troubling

kinda reminds me of how Texas beat us a couple years ago

[CK Sooner]

http://www.collegeinjuryreport.com/injury-report.php?vw=T

They are doing pretty good in the injury department.

They did lose there fullback against Arkansas last week. They called him their team leader.

:rolleyes:

[yermom]

is that Fran's site?

[CK Sooner]

is that Fran's site?

Shhh

:mad:

[Cheshire Bear.]

If this is the case, you'll need to force turnovers against us. I know most of y'all are looking forward to Texas, but if there's one thing Baylor can do, it's run the ball. We have a stable of very solid RBs in Jay Finley, Jeremy Sanders, and Jacoby Jones who are all very capable of breaking one, Jay Finley being the most explosive. Not to mention Robert Griffin is the fastest QB in the Big 12 and possibly the country. Randy Edsall, head coach at UConn, said he was faster than Pat White. Most UConn fans came to that same consensus. The only difference between him and Pat White is that RG3 can throw. He's definitely a throw first type QB who can make things happen with his arm. Of course, he is a freshman though, and though the number is low, he still can make freshman mistakes. I'd say our running game is definitely our strength. I just don't think we really match-up anywhere else though...Y'all get the check in practically every category.

[BoulderSooner79]

I have thought about this...bottom line for now is, they are forcing the TO's. BUT...the game they don't could be a problem.

I didn't have much as far as expectations for this defense. I figured we would have to outscore teams along the way to win. I still think that but the defense has done better than I thought. Not sure Texas has the playmakers to do much as far as exploiting us too much. At OSU? Different story.

I'm with the Maestro - the defense is doing better than I expected, so kudos to the staff. They are playing the kind of opportunistic defense that is a good compliment to a strong offense. A forced turnover or a couple of negative plays can put a game away early if our offense is clicking. We may have to win a critical game by just out scoring the other guy, but I don't expect a bunch of shootouts. To stay in the hunt for the title, you have to put games away early and not be forced to win a bunch of close games. LSU was an exception last year.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If this is the case, you'll need to force turnovers against us. I know most of y'all are looking forward to Texas, but if there's one thing Baylor can do, it's run the ball. We have a stable of very solid RBs in Jay Finley, Jeremy Sanders, and Jacoby Jones who are all very capable of breaking one, Jay Finley being the most explosive. Not to mention Robert Griffin is the fastest QB in the Big 12 and possibly the country. Randy Edsall, head coach at UConn, said he was faster than Pat White. Most UConn fans came to that same consensus. The only difference between him and Pat White is that RG3 can throw. He's definitely a throw first type QB who can make things happen with his arm. Of course, he is a freshman though, and though the number is low, he still can make freshman mistakes. I'd say our running game is definitely our strength. I just don't think we really match-up anywhere else though...Y'all get the check in practically every category.

it isn't a question of us matching up with the talent at the skill positions, its a matter of our linebackers chicken fighting with OL instead of getting off of them and filling a hole. if they aren't blocked they make the play at about as high of a rate as any linebackers in recent memory (especially reynolds). so in summary, if a team doesn't have the OL to match up with our DL and allow for releasing a guy onto the linebackers they are going to get eaten up.

when you use the WV comparison, that is the part that you are missing - they handled us at the LOS man up and sent one floating through to seal up reynolds (when he was in the game for those fateful 8 plays). that left this huge void in the middle and forced a safety to come up and tackle an elusive running back in space. unfortunately, last year's defensive backs were more of a pass defense type than a physical punish a running back type, so what normally happened was a collosal whiff and a big gain.

now, this isn't to say your skill guys won't make great plays, they will. its just that our defense is much more able to limit their damage to big plays instead of a death by a thousand cuts (which wins ballgames) if you had the proper OL to get us.

[JLEW1818]

I think we have an average defense. I think it only gets better.

Above average offense

Top 3 Offensive lines in the league
Top 3 Offensive backfields in the league
NFL style qb

=championship combo.

[My Opinion Matters]

it isn't a question of us matching up with the talent at the skill positions, its a matter of our linebackers chicken fighting with OL instead of getting off of them and filling a hole. if they aren't blocked they make the play at about as high of a rate as any linebackers in recent memory (especially reynolds). so in summary, if a team doesn't have the OL to match up with our DL and allow for releasing a guy onto the linebackers they are going to get eaten up.

when you use the WV comparison, that is the part that you are missing - they handled us at the LOS man up and sent one floating through to seal up reynolds (when he was in the game for those fateful 8 plays). that left this huge void in the middle and forced a safety to come up and tackle an elusive running back in space. unfortunately, last year's defensive backs were more of a pass defense type than a physical punish a running back type, so what normally happened was a collosal whiff and a big gain.

now, this isn't to say your skill guys won't make great plays, they will. its just that our defense is much more able to limit their damage to big plays instead of a death by a thousand cuts (which wins ballgames) if you had the proper OL to get us.

Interesting analysis. Since he's the only true NT on the roster, do you think the absence of Granger in the Fiesta Bowl contributed to the breakdown in the middle?

[JLEW1818]

I think the absence of Granger, Holmes, Smith contributed in that game.

[My Opinion Matters]

I think the absence of Granger, Holmes, Smith contributed in that game.

I wasn't asking you.

[mehip]

To me, it seems that defense plays with a little more fire than we've seen recently. I really have no idea how they stack up talent wise compared to some of the previous Venables coached squads but, they seem nastier and bring the lead more than I've seen in some time. I really enjoy watching them this season.

[JLEW1818]

I wasn't asking you.

I know you weren't, and I was not trying to be rude at all. But yes we sure did miss him.

[swardboy]

I know you weren't, and I was not trying to be rude at all. But yes we sure did miss him.

All good and fine. But please understand that JKM is of legendary status on analyzing the x's and o's, and this was a rare JKM sighting....thank you, carry on.

[Collier11]

All good and fine. But please understand that JKM is of legendary status on analyzing the x's and o's, and this was a rare JKM sighting....thank you, carry on.

maybe you just think he is so good because you have no idea what he is talking about :D

The thing is every team gives up a few big plays a game, its just that some OU fans somewhere along the line thought it was only us. That is the diff between last yr and this, we arent busting and we are making the big plays with forcing turnovers, you cant take that away because it is actively happening game to game

[birddog]

All good and fine. But please understand that JKM is of legendary status on analyzing the x's and o's, and this was a rare JKM sighting....thank you, carry on.

yeah, i've been waiting for him to come around. hopefully no one runs him off.

[Collier11]

I think we have an average defense. I think it only gets better.

Above average offense

Top 3 Offensive lines in the league
Top 3 Offensive backfields in the league
NFL style qb

=championship combo.

I think we are an above average D, you have to look at the entire package and forcing turnovers is part of it, that doesnt happen by accident. To say we an abover avg offense is crazy, it isnt the best ever like some are saying but this is a great offense

[douxpaysan]

I wasn't asking you.

That's a funny thing for MOM to say...:rolleyes:

[The Maestro]

This just in...there are some good offenses in college football. The Big 12 has the best offenses. We are going to give up some big plays. The days of 1985 where we went through NOVEMBER without giving up an offensive touchdown are OVER!!! Just doesn't happen anymore.

[Sooner04]

The days of 1985 where we went through NOVEMBER without giving up an offensive touchdown are OVER!!!

Three to nothing would've been enough.............but I'm glad we got 13!
---Barry Switzer: OU locker room after the Ice Bowl, 1985.

[KingDavid]

. . . you'd have to have a team that can take our DL 4 on 4 while consistently releasing a lineman. . .

I'll like our chances with any team that tries to attack our front 7 this way. There isn't a team in the country that can consistently beat our front four going with only 4 linemen. That certainly was the case with Granger. And I believe it's still this case, even without Granger. Any one of our starting front four, with the exception of perhaps Taylor (only due to experience) would be the best DL on just about every other Big XII team. Especially when they're healthy.

[The Maestro]

---Barry Switzer: OU locker room after the Ice Bowl, 1985.

Thank you, Damon Stell!

Man, always nice to go old school with O4.

[Leroy Lizard]

Concerning UT, I am mostly concerned with breaking containment on McCoy. A great pass rush doesn't do any good if all he has to do is tuck it and run right up the middle. We need to keep him in front of the DL at all times.

[The Maestro]

Personally, I would rush three. Don't let him take off and run. He is their best player by far. Who is he gonna throw it to? Least amount of serious skill players Texas has had in the Mack Brown era. Quan Cosby and ....?????????? I don't see TFRW, BJ Johnson, Jermichael Finley or that other good tight end they had on the horns roster. And their running backs? No clue.

[tulsaoilerfan]

The one thing that scared me about the D on Saturday was how many times Taylor took the running back on the zone read and allowed the TCU QB to make some pretty nice yardage; look at the film and you will see it at least 4 or 5 times,and against Pokie State that does concern me

[The Maestro]

look at the film and you will see it at least 4 or 5 times

Stoops is kinda stingy and won't let me see the film!

[proudsoonergal]

Personally, I would rush three. Don't let him take off and run. He is their best player by far. Who is he gonna throw it to? Least amount of serious skill players Texas has had in the Mack Brown era. Quan Cosby and ....?????????? I don't see TFRW, BJ Johnson, Jermichael Finley or that other good tight end they had on the horns roster. And their running backs? No clue.

Colt goes to Jordan Shipley MANY times throughout a game - they are roommates and are developing into a pretty good QB/WR combo. Shipley got two or three TDs in the game against Arkansas (I know - I was forced to watch it because stupid ABC wouldn't switch coverages here in Austin. BLECK.)

[Collier11]

We will make ut run against us, I would almost bet a paycheck...they have no running game at all, when colt mccoy is your biggest threat youve got issues...we will shut down the passing game and let them run

[The Maestro]

Colt goes to Jordan Shipley MANY times throughout a game - they are roommates and are developing into a pretty good QB/WR combo. Shipley got two or three TDs in the game against Arkansas (I know - I was forced to watch it because stupid ABC wouldn't switch coverages here in Austin. BLECK.)

Cold hard facts.

Jordan Shipley = white receiver.

The Golden Richards/Steve Largent era is over.

[Scott D]

Colt goes to Jordan Shipley MANY times throughout a game - they are roommates and are developing into a pretty good QB/WR combo. Shipley got two or three TDs in the game against Arkansas (I know - I was forced to watch it because stupid ABC wouldn't switch coverages here in Austin. BLECK.)

so you're saying that there is a thpethial relationthip between colt and thipley that extends beyond fithing and hunting together ;)

[Salt City Sooner]

Cold hard facts.

Jordan Shipley = white receiver.

The Golden Richards/Steve Largent era is over.
Don't think he's got the memo yet, as he's scored against OU in Dallas both times he's played them (that would be exactly 2 more times than Legend ever did, FWIW :D )

[The Maestro]

Don't think he's got the memo yet, as he's scored against OU in Dallas both times he's played them (that would be exactly 2 more times than Legend ever did, FWIW :D )

I hate when good points get in the way of my ability to mention Golden Richards in a thread!

[adoniijahsooner]

Those turnovers are not happening by accident; it appears the team is TRYING TO STRIP THE BALL out of the ball carriers arms. It sounds like some people are suggesting that we are just lucky when it comes to turnovers; I remember last year when Lofton knocked the ball out of charles hand as he was on his way to score. You have to make it happen.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Personally, I would rush three. Don't let him take off and run. He is their best player by far. Who is he gonna throw it to? Least amount of serious skill players Texas has had in the Mack Brown era. Quan Cosby and ....?????????? I don't see TFRW, BJ Johnson, Jermichael Finley or that other good tight end they had on the horns roster. And their running backs? No clue.


Shipley, and he's playing lights out this season.

[MikeInNorman]

jkm's point being, if I may be so bold, that Reynolds' play remains the key to the overall performance of the defense. I agree, primarily because of Reynolds' uncanny ability to run directly into the closest blocker, and become blocked.

However, it seemed that Reynolds did this less often against TCU than is typical. In fact, my wife got on to me several times at the game for exclaiming "Reynolds made a play! How about that!" So maybe this is being worked on, and maybe this will be less of a problem as the season progresses. If the "block me" tendency can be improved, we'll be a lot better, as it's easier to cover up pass coverage deficiencies of the MLB than run-stopping deficiencies.

[NormanPride]

Moore and Taylor stepped up pretty well, IMO. We didn't blitz at all against TCU (well, almost at all) and that allowed a lineman to get free sometimes. Still, they were only doing that when our D was gassed in the late third after our O decided it didn't want the ball any more. Could this happen against Texas? Yes. But I also think we'll blitz more against them to prevent that lineman from getting downfield and causing havok.

No, what I really want to see against Texas is English stepping up. He's been absent almost all season and I'm not sure if that's due to scheme or lack of time in the offseason to get his feet under him. We could use Alexander back for that game... :(

[TopDawg]

jkm's point being, if I may be so bold, that Reynolds' play remains the key to the overall performance of the defense.

I think it's more the play of the DL. It all starts on the line. If they allow themselves to be blocked 1-on-1, then Reynolds will be blocked. If they don't, then Reynolds will make plays...against the run.

Unless Reynolds can start freeing himself from those blocks, it's more about the play of the DL.

Did You Know...OU leads the nation in tackles for loss so far this year. I thought I heard that we are averaging almost 10 per game.

[NormanPride]

Wow, that is pretty impressive... We did get a few against TCU.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Those turnovers are not happening by accident; it appears the team is TRYING TO STRIP THE BALL out of the ball carriers arms. It sounds like some people are suggesting that we are just lucky when it comes to turnovers; I remember last year when Lofton knocked the ball out of charles hand as he was on his way to score. You have to make it happen.

you only read the title and the first line right? we kind of made that point several times in the thread.

[JLEW1818]

I think we are an above average D, you have to look at the entire package and forcing turnovers is part of it, that doesnt happen by accident. To say we an abover avg offense is crazy, it isnt the best ever like some are saying but this is a great offense

So you don't think that our Offense is above average?

[Jason White's Third Knee]

I view our Defense on TV. Turn overs are huge to championships. I am pretty sure that we were +19 in TOs in 2000. The champ is usually right around there. We haven't been close since.

[TopDawg]

Those turnovers are not happening by accident; it appears the team is TRYING TO STRIP THE BALL out of the ball carriers arms. It sounds like some people are suggesting that we are just lucky when it comes to turnovers; I remember last year when Lofton knocked the ball out of charles hand as he was on his way to score. You have to make it happen.

you only read the title and the first line right? we kind of made that point several times in the thread. you should read all posts in a thread before you post so you don't make points that have already been made by someone else.

[Frozen Sooner]

Here's what concerns me:

Statistical analysis shows that there is little correlation between fumbles and winning.

The same analysis shows a great deal of correlation between interceptions and winning.

I'd really really like to see us picking off more passes. But yeah, the fumbles are nice. :D

[adoniijahsooner]

you only read the title and the first line right? we kind of made that point several times in the thread.

Yeah, I just got off of work.Next time I promise to read through all the post.:O

[Okie Hillbilly]

you only read the title and the first line right? we kind of made that point several times in the thread.


you only read the title and the first line right? we kind of made that point several times in the thread. you should read all posts in a thread before you post so you don't make points that have already been made by someone else.


YOU should read all posts in a thread before you post so you don't make points that have already been made by someone else.:D

[TopDawg]

you only read the title and the first line right? we kind of made that point several times in the thread. you should read all posts in a thread before you post so you don't make points that have already been made by someone else.

D'oh! I just realized that jkm had already said what I said. Just wanted to point that out before someone else. It looks like I should read all posts in a thread before I post so I don't make points that have already been made by someone else. :D

[Okie Hillbilly]

D'oh! I just realized that jkm had already said what I said. Just wanted to point that out before someone else. It looks like I should read all posts in a thread before I post so I don't make points that have already been made by someone else. :D

:D

[Collier11]

So you don't think that our Offense is above average?

NO, I think our offense is great, that means better than above avg :D

[JLEW1818]

NO, I think our offense is great, that means better than above avg :D

haha, I agree.

[douxpaysan]

Not to belabor a point about whether are offense is average, above average or great, at least we have played a couple of fairly good defenses and more than held our own. Our defense hasn't played a good offense yet, so, I will be concerned until we do. It's nice to be considered good enough to be ranked highly in the polls but if our defense is exposed we will be yesterday's news. I like the chippy attitude this defense brings...at least the youngbloods want to be good.

[SoonerKnight]

Hopefully better than saxet!