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View Full Version : who won the debate , a Pole



olevetonahill
9/26/2008, 09:29 PM
JSM or BHO ?

Turd_Ferguson
9/26/2008, 09:30 PM
Where's the option for Jim Leher:confused:

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 09:32 PM
Where's the option for I didn't watch (maybe 30 seconds) because I knew who I was gonna vote for months ago.

Veritas
9/26/2008, 09:32 PM
I vote BHO because he is better at the format of debate. People will respond more positively to his demeanor regardless of his words.

Soonerfan88
9/26/2008, 09:33 PM
I say neither --- getting a straight answer from either has been damn near impossible. :mad:


Edit to Veritas: Not to say either was the winner, but to say BHO is a better debater when he is the one who was the first and most often to interrupt is a bit of a stretch to me.

Rogue
9/26/2008, 09:39 PM
I voted for JSM in this pole.
He blew me away tonight. Started well, faded a little in turn 3, and finished strong.

Veritas
9/26/2008, 09:40 PM
I say neither --- getting a straight answer from either has been damn near impossible. :mad:


Edit to Veritas: Not to say either was the winner, but to say BHO is a better debater when he is the one who was the first and most often to interrupt is a bit of a stretch to me.
Good point.

Either way, the news networks (sans Fox) are going to **** themselves proclaiming a resounding victory for Obama.

westcoast_sooner
9/26/2008, 09:41 PM
WOW - my wife and I were glued to the debate. McCain was absolutely amazing, IMO. No doubt that Obama is articulate and very well spoken - very polished, and McCain is a good ole boy. But McCain, to me, chewed up Obama and spit him out.

Veritas
9/26/2008, 09:41 PM
But McCain, to me, chewed up Obama and spit him out.
I hope the rest of the country sees it that way.

CrimsonandCreamForever
9/26/2008, 09:45 PM
I'd say JSM. Obama didn't clean his debating clock like was expected. McCain did a lot better than most people thought he would.

SCOUT
9/26/2008, 09:47 PM
I voted for JSM. I thought his depth of knowledge and experience came across well. I will say that BHO did a much better job of articulating his stance on foreign policy issues than I thought he would.

I think Veritas has a very valid point. The window dressing crowd will pick BHO because he does a better job of posturing himself and delivering his rhetoric IMO.

Rogue
9/26/2008, 09:47 PM
I'm actually looking forward to Sic'Em's take on this.

Soonerfan88
9/26/2008, 09:48 PM
I'd say JSM. Obama didn't clean his debating clock like was expected. McCain did a lot better than most people thought he would.

That's my overall view. The hype over Obama's speaking skills may have actually hurt him tonight.

King Crimson
9/26/2008, 09:50 PM
i listened on the radio and i don't think anyone "won" this...i think McCain will gain some points. but, McCain was particularly obvious talking in platitudes most of the time....and Obama repeating tired talking points, many times out of context.

on the radio Obama sounded uncomfortable and reaching for phrases like "as i said before" or "to say again" which are (in my experience as a public speaking kind of guy as a college teacher)...fillers we all use for nervousness or lost train of thought.

stoops the eternal pimp
9/26/2008, 10:00 PM
who debated?

Rogue
9/26/2008, 10:00 PM
Wonder who was closer to Kissinger's view about talking with leaders of non-ally countries without pre-conditions?

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 10:04 PM
who debated?

Some guy named Master. :P

olevetonahill
9/26/2008, 10:06 PM
WOW i thot this would Go More as to whos voting fer who .
JSM schooled the Kid In FP and on the war
In MHO

lexsooner
9/26/2008, 10:09 PM
It was a push. Veritas is absolutely correct that Obama scored points for just his appearance and fluid speech, which are more important than the substance of the speech. He seemed Presidential, which is something for which Obama had more to prove. McCain also looked and sounded good, probably better than I have ever seen him. Nobody cleaned anyone's clock.

On a much more important note, I discovered Blanton's bourbon is more to my liking than Woodford Reserve. Blanton's came across as smoother and more able to address my issues. Woodford just did not seem as congenial, much more harsh than Blanton's, which was crisp and smooth. Clear victory tonight for Blanton's. Both come with a big price tag and tax implications, but Blanton's won my vote tonight.

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 10:10 PM
Obama scored points for just his appearance and fluid speech, which are more important than the substance of the speech.

Maybe to people who are shallow and/or don't have a clue.

Rogue
9/26/2008, 10:12 PM
WOW i thot this would Go More as to whos voting fer who .

Except for Veritas and me, it is. Isn't it?

westcoast_sooner
9/26/2008, 10:13 PM
King,

It seemed clear to me that Obama was rattled at times. Those in the media didn't necessarily think so, it was more sprited than I've seen a presidential debate, probably since Reagan gave his trademark "there he goes again..." line.

Whet
9/26/2008, 10:15 PM
I thought Barry's attempt to interupt, wince, bumbling, trying to talk over McCain was a very negative negative for him. It showed him to be prickly and pompus. Also, it was McCain that got under Barry's skin - especially important because Barry's goal was to try an goad McCain into showing his temper - backfired on barry.

JohnnyMack
9/26/2008, 10:15 PM
It was a push. McCain seemed condecending at times, Obama seemed too nice, too conciliatory.

King Crimson
9/26/2008, 10:17 PM
It was a push. Veritas is absolutely correct that Obama scored points for just his appearance and fluid speech, which are more important than the substance of the speech. He seemed Presidential, which is something for which Obama had more to prove. McCain also looked and sounded good, probably better than I have ever seen him. Nobody cleaned anyone's clock.



i listened on the radio and i thought Obama sounded uncomfortable most of the time. McCain to me was talking in platitudes and ad hominem attacks, to be honest. but that's what works and people like. the Palin speech principle.

but to the "presidential thing". i would not call it an Obama "win" on the radio.

i think most people heard/saw what they wanted to, and interpreted it thus.

Flagstaffsooner
9/26/2008, 10:17 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/wteach/surrender/smobama.jpg

KC//CRIMSON
9/26/2008, 10:18 PM
I should start a poll that ask's who thought someone would start a "who won" poll.

lexsooner
9/26/2008, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexsooner
Obama scored points for just his appearance and fluid speech, which are more important than the substance of the speech.


Maybe to people who are shallow and/or don't have a clue.

Like 90% of the voting public. That's the whole point behind why cheap sound bites and rehearsed zingers and negative ads are used so much - they work.

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 10:21 PM
Like 90% of the voting public. That's the whole point behind why cheap sound bites and rehearsed zingers and negative ads are used so much - they work.

Ya got a point there.

proud gonzo
9/26/2008, 10:21 PM
know what? I think people who already know which candidate they're voting for will think that candidate "won" the debate. And I think people who don't have an opinion probably don't care enough to watch the debate. So it probably doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

Rogue
9/26/2008, 10:23 PM
know what? I think people who already know which candidate they're voting for will think that candidate "won" the debate. And I think people who don't have an opinion probably don't care enough to watch the debate. So it probably doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

Generally maybe. You'da been amazed to see me pointing out JSM's good points and Sic'Em agreeing with BHO's foreign policy stances in the other thread.

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 10:24 PM
Generally maybe. You'da been amazed to see me pointing out JSM's good points and Sic'Em agreeing with BHO's foreign policy stances in the other thread.

Nothing Sic'Em says regarding politics surprises me.

lexsooner
9/26/2008, 10:24 PM
know what? I think people who already know which candidate they're voting for will think that candidate "won" the debate. And I think people who don't have an opinion probably don't care enough to watch the debate. So it probably doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

For the most part, that is true. But I do give kudos to the posters who have given pretty objective commentary on the debate and not just engaged in cheerleading for their guy, even though they have previously expressed their preferences rather clearly. I think we can all figure out who falls in or out of this category.

sooneron
9/26/2008, 10:31 PM
I was watching Prison Break on dvr. Who won?

olevetonahill
9/26/2008, 10:36 PM
I should start a poll that ask's who thought someone would start a "who won" poll.

Id win ;)

SoonerStormchaser
9/26/2008, 11:07 PM
I'm actually looking forward to Sic'Em's take on this.

According to SicEm's facebook status, he says he loved O'Bomba in the debates...seriously.

olevetonahill
9/26/2008, 11:28 PM
According to SicEm's facebook status, he says he loved O'Bomba in the debates...seriously.

He also likes Zima :rolleyes:

Blue
9/26/2008, 11:30 PM
I plan on voting repub and thought Obama did better. More calm and better related his ideas (whether they are wrong or not). I could do without McCain constantly Heh'ing while Obama spoke and coming across as an angry old curmudgeon. I wish I could find Mike Myers old sketches of "Angry Old Man." Obama seems more level headed.

But, the question is their positions, not personalities. But as Jules would say, "Personality goes a long mf'in way."

Frozen Sooner
9/26/2008, 11:41 PM
I did. Why? Because I got interviewed by a local news hottie and made her laugh on air.

SanJoaquinSooner
9/26/2008, 11:43 PM
I thought McCain won. He promised to take care of Olevet but take away his earmarks.

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 11:47 PM
I did. Why? Because I got interviewed by a local news hottie and made her laugh on air.

Did she laugh when you told her you were voting Obama? :D

Frozen Sooner
9/26/2008, 11:49 PM
Did she laugh when you told her you were voting Obama? :D

Strangely enough, it was when I said that McCain made a couple of good points.

Curly Bill
9/26/2008, 11:50 PM
Strangely enough, it was when I said that McCain made a couple of good points.

You didn't say it was Katie Couric. ;) :D

colleyvillesooner
9/27/2008, 12:24 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/wteach/surrender/smobama.jpg

Http://images.quickblogcast.com/35238-32833/ThatsRacist.gif

SicEmBaylor
9/27/2008, 01:54 AM
I honestly believe that the debate was a draw. They each had their strengths and weaknesses. I personally liked John McCain's answers on spending, the economy, and taxes over Obama's while I preferred Obama's positions on foreign policy. I think a very cautious approach to international affairs is a good thing -- I also don't see any inherent harm by talking to foreign leaders regardless of how batass crazy they are. It's not that I believe we can get them to behave one way or another, but I think it can be advantageous to us for a number of reasons.

Objectively speaking, I think McCain was much better in articulating broad philosophical principles while Obama had him beat with specific policy goals. I'm something of a policy wonk, so I enjoyed and appreciated the fact that Obama's postions were more nuanced than McCain's. I'm not a political reactionary, and I prefer Obama's approach to problems even though I mostly disagree with his actual actions and proposals.

OUthunder
9/27/2008, 02:16 AM
All kidding aside, I thought that Obama heald his own up until the last 30 minutes of the debate when they started talking about the Georgia/Russia crisis and national defense. Then I fealt that McCain edged him out.

LosAngelesSooner
9/27/2008, 02:18 AM
I'm just irritated at this point.

colleyvillesooner
9/27/2008, 08:06 AM
I'm just irritated at this point.

They make creams for that...

leavingthezoo
9/27/2008, 08:32 AM
i could flip it either way. neither looked especially bad; and neither looked especially good. although, i did think both came off as capable. i went with obama as a slight edge simply because foreign policy should have been a slam dunk for Mccain, and it was not. (IMO)

I actually feel better about McCain now, though. I voted for that guy in the 2000 primaries, and I was reminded last night a little bit of why.

Partial Qualifier
9/27/2008, 08:36 AM
I preferred Obama's positions on foreign policy. I think a very cautious approach to international affairs is a good thing -- I also don't see any inherent harm by talking to foreign leaders regardless of how batass crazy they are.

If the POTUS has direct talks with a batass crazy foreign leader who also happens to be a dictator or a supporter of terrorism, he's lending big global credibility to said wackjob -- that's not a "very cautious approach".

StoopTroup
9/27/2008, 09:06 AM
I thought it went to Obama.

Why you ask?

You can't go around saying Obama has no experience and then not have your Seasoned Veteran McCain not completely take him apart.

I would have assumed a poll here on the SO would look as it does right now...leaning toward McCain.

If I was a McCainiac I would say he won too.

It's sad that John didn't just crush Barrack...

It's a win for Obama that it didn't happen IMO.

The Wife said she thought McCain looked tired and old. She's Republican BTW.

GrapevineSooner
9/27/2008, 09:19 AM
If the POTUS has direct talks with a batass crazy foreign leader who also happens to be a dictator or a supporter of terrorism, he's lending big global credibility to said wackjob -- that's not a "very cautious approach".

To Obama's credit, I don't know that he was necessarily inferring that POTUS's should be having talks with idiots like Gorilla Boy. He simply said that the United States in general shouldn't rule them out with any nation.

Because to lay out the ground rules, you've got to have at least one line of communication open.

Veritas
9/27/2008, 09:52 AM
While watching the debates, I kept thinking, "Are these two *******s really our only choices?"

Of course, thanks to McCain (and Feingold) the answer is and always will be "yes."

stoopified
9/27/2008, 10:11 AM
I voted for JSM in this pole.
He blew me away tonight. Started well, faded a little in turn 3, and finished strong.Race fan?

Tulsa_Fireman
9/27/2008, 10:42 AM
All I know is that I repeatedly said, "How?" to a lot of what the candidates said. I'm going to do <insert vague talking point> when I'm president. We have to <insert vague talking point> as soon as possible. How?

John McCain was the only one that came close to answering specifics in regards to policy. He was clear on preconditions with unaligned foreign nations, that the door was open to lower level emmisaries to maintain communication, but to talk to the Big Dog, you gotta do X, Y, and Z. He was clear in specifically how he'd address federal expenditure reductions to compensate for the hickey the bailout will land on the coffers by announcing a flat out spending freeze for everything but defense, veterans programs, and other vital federal programs. He was clear on his position on Iran. He was clear on the problems of Afghanistan and the overall strategy leading up to an eventual surge there as well as clear on incursions into Pakistan.

Obama, not so much. A lot of ideas bandied about, but nothing hard and fast as to HOW. Don't get me wrong, McCain dropped his own share of vagaries and broad policy positions that addressed the what, but not the how. I need the how. And John McCain gave me some. Not much, but some.

I swear to God, if I hear another politician go into how we shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place, I'm gonna pull my hair out. It's a moot point that panders to the base but does jack **** to address the right here, right now, what do we do next. We're there. Hindsight's 20/20. Give me answers as to what you'll do now and not just posture about how we made a stupid decision. Drop a pair and give me specifics.

In other words, man up and cut out a side. Quit talking about how we need offshore drilling with one side of your mouth then tell me how it's useless from the other. Chickensh*t.

badger
9/27/2008, 10:55 AM
Remembering University of Washington in Seattle on this Norman gameday...
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sn2JIqnZUeg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sn2JIqnZUeg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

And yes, I know what happens on 1.20.09 :D

lexsooner
9/27/2008, 11:18 AM
Nobody "won" the debate. I define winning as coming out of a debate which significantly influences voters in your favor, especially the undecided and those leaning in your direction, and the influence "sticks" until election day, thus increasing the number who vote for you.

Both Obama and McCain did quite well, in my opinion. There were no major mistakes by either side. Both looked and sounded crisp. The polls (meaningless) of undecided voters after the debate either scored it as a draw, or were somewhat in Obama's favor. The only thing is, they asked these folks who "won," instead of asking whether either candidate's performance increased their chances of voting for them. But even then, people have short memories and these feelings fade real fast, sort of like the bounce after the conventions, so these polls don't mean squat.

The people most pumped up are those who are already supporters of Obama or McCain. Each side is loaded with people claiming their guy "won." This debate mostly reinforced each side's support of their candidate. A friend of mine went to a debate party last night full of knee-jerk liberals, who all supported Obama. You would have thought it was a slam dunk in his favor, sort of like taking this message board and reversing the opinions about the debate in Obama's favor.

I view it as a push, without much of an impact on the election, which is what "winning" the debate is all about.

walkoffsooner
9/27/2008, 11:37 AM
McCain hates Bush and his policys, he wants to say it so bad he can't stand it.

swardboy
9/27/2008, 04:29 PM
While I'm biased because I'm voting for JM, I was somewhat surprised at how superior he was against Hussein. I was so ticked off against McCain's feistiness against Romney in the primary debates because he projects a belligerent persona, but it came across as though he were schoolin' Hussein. Win: JM. I can't wait for the more free wheelin' town meeting styled combat.

StoopTroup
9/28/2008, 01:29 AM
So...

All of us lost.

At least were #1 in Football.

SicEmBaylor
9/28/2008, 01:30 AM
If the POTUS has direct talks with a batass crazy foreign leader who also happens to be a dictator or a supporter of terrorism, he's lending big global credibility to said wackjob -- that's not a "very cautious approach".

I don't see it as lending credibility at all. How exactly does it do that? The fact that they are the respective leaders of their nations is pretty much all the legitimacy they need. I can see not speaking to them if we were refusing to formally recognize their nation, but that isn't the case.

Tulsa_Fireman
9/28/2008, 10:59 AM
I don't see it as lending credibility at all. How exactly does it do that? The fact that they are the respective leaders of their nations is pretty much all the legitimacy they need. I can see not speaking to them if we were refusing to formally recognize their nation, but that isn't the case.

It does in the fact that communcations channels can be maintained withOUT actual discussions with Achmedinutjob. As POTUS to sit down with that moonbat says that the Leader of the Free World, the President of the most powerful strategic, economic, industrialized country in the WORLD wants to hear what Senor Moonbat has to say. Tell me what you want. BS.

We had a clown in section 18, row 11 last night. Stoned out of his frickin' skull. Almost got his *** beat when he put his hands on a guy's old lady. But as the goof was staggering around, dropping MF bombs like a child that just learned it, he was constantly scanning the crowd. Looking for the one person to laugh so he could have a reason to continue his performance of idiocy. Once no one laughed, even to shine him on. And like the performance of a child, it stopped for a second until someone else laughed, and off he went.

Point being, you gotta stop acting like a retard. I know you want to talk about that Manny Johnson touchdown. But I won't talk to you about anything until you stop acting like a complete imbecile and show some respect for the folks around you. Straighten up your ship, THEN we'll talk about what you're thinking. Until then, my lower level glare/diplomats will have to work in communcating the official message of my position.

AKA, it legitimizes these assclowns.