11 days and counting until the LSAT

[Frozen Sooner]

And I can officially say "Logic puzzles suck ***."

You know what? I don't CARE where Hillary sits on the bus. Or is ranked in a lineup of tapeworms. Or whatever.

Grrr.

[Taxman71]

All I remember is running out of time as most did. The practice techniquest help alot though. Good luck.

[royalfan5]

When I took the LSAT, I didn't really prepare, and had to get there on a dead sprint because they scheduled the LSAT on Game day directly adjacent to Memorial Stadium and I had to park 3/4 of mile away illegally. In spite of this I still posted an excellent score. However, the fact that I really didn't give a **** about being a lawyer, probably should have tipped me off that going to Law School was the wrong choice for me. However, the actual LSAT itself flew by once I was in there.

[Lott's Bandana]

And I can officially say "Logic puzzles suck ***."

You know what? I don't CARE where Hillary sits on the bus. Or is ranked in a lineup of tapeworms. Or whatever.

Grrr.

Just close your eyes, relax and think of you getting some more doggie lovin.

[KC//CRIMSON]

And I can officially say "Logic puzzles suck ***."

You know what? I don't CARE where Hillary sits on the bus. Or is ranked in a lineup of tapeworms. Or whatever.

Grrr.

people swear by the prep class.....just sayin

[lexsooner]

All I remember is running out of time as most did. The practice techniquest help alot though. Good luck.

Sounds like the multistate test the first day of the bar. Not enough freakin time, too many questions narrowed down to two possibilities.

[Taxman71]

Many law schools give out schollys based on LSAT scores (not just admissions). Thus, it could very profitable to take a prep class.

[Frozen Sooner]

people swear by the prep class.....just sayin

Well, on the practice tests I'm consistently getting only one or two wrong total on the reading comp and the logical analysis. It's just the dang logic puzzles. I'm consistently getting one wrong in every set. Rarely two, rarely none.

So I'm working my way through every logic puzzle prep book I can find. I've noticed that I am getting gradually better at them, and I'm getting a TON faster as I learn the diagramming techniques.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Well, on the practice tests I'm consistently getting only one or two wrong total on the reading comp and the logical analysis. It's just the dang logic puzzles. I'm consistently getting one wrong in every set. Rarely two, rarely none.

So I'm working my way through every logic puzzle prep book I can find. I've noticed that I am getting gradually better at them, and I'm getting a TON faster as I learn the diagramming techniques.


Hey, whatever works for you is great. My ex who took the prep class scored high enough to get Harvard Law School to foot some of the bill. She said that prep class really helped her out in scoring higher. FWIW.

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, it's also kind of too late for a prep class. :D

I dunno, I've never taken a test prep class in my life. In fact, this is the first time I've ever done any kind of test prep at all for a standardized test.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Mike you will do well...I shall summon the spirit of Pat Morita to guide you through your test

[Okla-homey]

Most everyone blows on those logic puzzles. Face it, if we could do math and stuff, most lawyers would have gone to medical school. There, I said it. I admit it.

Instead, I make my living keeping doctors from losing their estates when some nimcompoop sues them because he can't pee straight after having a 10 pound tumor removed from his lower abdomen.

[Big Red Ron]

And I can officially say "Logic puzzles suck ***."

You know what? I don't CARE where Hillary sits on the bus. Or is ranked in a lineup of tapeworms. Or whatever.

Grrr.
Awe, c'mon. Learn to do truth tables. I mean really understand it and all those questions end up being simple equations.

Good luck chunky!

Singed,

Slightly more chunky

[AlbqSooner]

Been over 30 years since I took the LSAT. I used the prep books but not the class. Scored extremely well. Just relax and realize that you have a good job so it isn't like your well being is contingent on this test. You will do fine. Oh yeah, Homey is right. NOBODY does well on the logic puzzles - not even the guys who come up with them. :D

[Taxman71]

Most everyone blows on those logic puzzles. Face it, if we could do math and stuff, most lawyers would have gone to medical school. There, I said it. I admit it.

Instead, I make my living keeping doctors from losing their estates when some nimcompoop sues them because he can't pee straight after having a 10 pound tumor removed from his lower abdomen.

Weird, I always rocked the logic stuff and hated the narrative/reading comp stuff....must be the CPA in me.

I feel for you Homey, I did some medmal defense in addition to tax and corporate early on and it is.....umm....interesting work.

[Soonerus]

Good luck Froz...

[King Crimson]

i used to teach classes for the Princeton Review for the SAT, GRE, and GMAT.

the key to the logic puzzles is to spatialize them with diagrams. like sets....if G can plant red flowers next to yellow flowers and yellow flowers next to white flowers...draw circles.

[47straight]

I'd wish you luck but I've seen your judicial philosophy... :D

[Curly Bill]

I'd wish you luck but I've seen your judicial philosophy... :D

:D

[CatfishSooner]

Screw the lsat...

Good luck tho...

[85Sooner]

I'd wish you luck but I've seen your judicial philosophy... :D

heh

[Frozen Sooner]

Just took a timed practice test and got a 167. Logic puzzles are still my Achilles heel-just can't finish the damn section.

Study tomorrow and Thursday-working with a tutor on Thursday-then test on Saturday.

[SoonerKnight]

good luck

[KC//CRIMSON]

Just took a timed practice test and got a 167. Logic puzzles are still my Achilles heel-just can't finish the damn section.

Study tomorrow and Thursday-working with a tutor on Thursday-then test on Saturday.


Hello Virginia!


http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/1/desc/LSATLow/2009

[Taxman71]

Just got to Southern University.....you will be like F. Lee Bailey around there.

[Frozen Sooner]

Hello Virginia!


http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/1/desc/LSATLow/2009

Heh. My Undergrad GPA is quite a bit lower than their low range.

[proud gonzo]

I've always kinda wanted to take the LSAT without studying, just to see what i'd score.

[soonerboomer93]

5

[SoonerInKCMO]

Most everyone blows on those logic puzzles. Face it, if we could do math and stuff, most lawyers would have gone to medical school. There, I said it. I admit it.

Or engineering, architecture, computer science, chemistry, biology... really, anything productive. ;)

[NYC Poke]

I've always kinda wanted to take the LSAT without studying, just to see what i'd score.

Without a practice test, you probably would not do all that well.

I didn't take a prep class, but I did take timed practice exams every Saturday morning for weeks leading up to the exam itself, and then studied the answers. The great thing about the logic puzzles is, once you figure out the pattern, it's gravy. Unlike the other sections, there is a definitive right answer.

The morning of the exam, I woke up early and had some coffee to get myself awake. The second section of the exam was one of the logic puzzle sections, and it had me baffled -- they weren't like the ones from the practice exams.

Then I realized I had to pee. Really bad. I internally debated for several minutes on whether to waste exam time going to the restroom, but I couldn't concentrate. I went, had to show ID, etc. to get in the exam room, and really realized I had screwed that section. I swore to myself that the next time I took a test like this I'd wear Depends.

I debated calling in to cancel my score and take it again. But then I got my results back, and it was one of the experimental sections that wasn't graded. I did well enough that I got into a couple of my "reach" schools, despite having a GPA burdened with a semester with 15 hours of 0.00 :O .

Oh, and as time ran out on one section that WAS graded, I quickly wrote in "C C C" for the final three questions. Then I second-guessed myself. "They know people are running out of time, and that C is the default answer." So I erased my responses and wrote in "B B B." Turns out two of the three were Cs. :(

Good luck and practice your diagrams. Based on your practice scores, you should be fine.

[proud gonzo]

Without a practice test, you probably would not do all that well.

see, that's why I'm curious. I want to know HOW badly I'd do.

[47straight]

Or engineering, architecture, computer science, chemistry, biology... really, anything productive. ;)


What about those of us who have done both?

[NYC Poke]

see, that's why I'm curious. I want to know HOW badly I'd do.


The spread between my first practice test and my final score was pretty significant. But look at this another way. Do you want to know this badly enough that it's worth paying the money for a practice book and devoting 3 hours or so to taking a practice exam?

[Fugue]

PG, just go in and wing it.
You can do that with law school exams too. *









* The advice above, while correct, does not guarantee a good grade. :O

[proud gonzo]

The spread between my first practice test and my final score was pretty significant. But look at this another way. Do you want to know this badly enough that it's worth paying the money for a practice book and devoting 3 hours or so to taking a practice exam?

No, because I don't want to take a practice exam. I want to ACTUALLY take the LSAT.

[NYC Poke]

No, because I don't want to take a practice exam. I want to ACTUALLY take the LSAT.


All it takes is time and money. But if you're going to put time and money into it, why not do some practice tests and get a better score?

[Frozen Sooner]

No, because I don't want to take a practice exam. I want to ACTUALLY take the LSAT.

Why? If you don't plan to go to law school, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to just buy Kaplan's book and take one of the exams on CD-ROM. It'll time for you and everything. Kaplan's practice exams are actual old LSATs.

[Fugue]

time + $ + froz = LSAT
if pg spent x $ and x time.....................................

This Poke/pg debate is like an LSAT question.
She's getting all the practice she needs right here. :D


edit: had to throw MR into the equation.

[Frozen Sooner]

Nah. The question would be more like this:

Jessica:

I want to take the LSAT, even though I don't actually want to go to law school.

Mike and Poke:

You should only take a practice exam, because it will be cheaper and should substantially match what you'd get on a "real" LSAT because the questions are taken from real LSATs.

How do Mike and Poke's response deal with Jessica's passage?

A) By raising potential objections and countering them.
B) By attacking the source of her opinions.
C) By agreeing with her.
D) By eating custard.

[NYC Poke]

And the people wearing red hats can never sit next to the people wearing green hats . . .

[Frozen Sooner]

I seriously hope I get a question like "Why can Gary never come before Bob?"

Just so I can write in the test booklet "Because Bob is a selfish lover."

[SoonerInKCMO]

I can see PG's point about wanting to take the real exam rather than a practice exam. The environment of the testing place, the other people in the room with you taking the same exam and being officially timed by someone else makes the real thing a completely different experience than a practice exam.

Hmmm... now I'm thinking I want to take it too. :)

[soonerboomer93]

D

[Frozen Sooner]

Correct. I'm eating custard as I type.

Hey, for the record-the hotel is only a few blocks away. Jeez, man, I thought we were on the Bataan Death March for a bit there. Dad moves quick for a little bastard, doesn't he?

[proud gonzo]

Why? If you don't plan to go to law school, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to just buy Kaplan's book and take one of the exams on CD-ROM. It'll time for you and everything. Kaplan's practice exams are actual old LSATs.it might be cheaper, but it'd still be a practice LSAT. I wouldn't be able to say "i took the LSAT without studying and got a hilariously bad score." i'd have to say "i wasted a few hours taking a practice test of a test i don't need to take."


All it takes is time and money. But if you're going to put time and money into it, why not do some practice tests and get a better score?
if i'm not going to law school, why would i put any extra time into studying? And if i was going to put any time into studying at all, why not just study a ton and apply to Harvard for fun? I'm not interested in how i do after studying just a little.

and honestly, if i was going to apply to law school, that's exactly how i'd do it. I'd take the test (not just a practice one) without studying at all, and THEN prepare.

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, I can think of one real disadvantage to taking the LSAT as a lark:

You may not want to go to law school right now, and that's cool. However, if you ever DO want to go to law school, that score is still going to be out there, and it's going to be averaged with your other scores. It's not like the SAT where you can take your best score.

Honestly, though, if you did no prep I imagine you'd still score above the %50 mark. 75% of the exam is reading comp and logical analysis, which I think you'd probably do fine on. The logic puzzles are the part you need the prep with.

[proud gonzo]

Well, I can think of one real disadvantage to taking the LSAT as a lark:

You may not want to go to law school right now, and that's cool. However, if you ever DO want to go to law school, that score is still going to be out there, and it's going to be averaged with your other scores. It's not like the SAT where you can take your best score.

Honestly, though, if you did no prep I imagine you'd still score above the %50 mark. 75% of the exam is reading comp and logical analysis, which I think you'd probably do fine on. The logic puzzles are the part you need the prep with.
see, THERE's a good reason. That would throw off my "applying to harvard just for fun" plan ;)

i'm still thinking it'd be fun, though. Also because i like going into tests unprepared when other people been studying for ages. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

Just took practice test #3, which is the final one I'm taking. Unlike 1 and 2, which I did on the computer, I did these out of a booklet. Timed each section, no cheating, no breaks. Also unlike 1 and 2, I restricted all notes to the booklet instead of using a notebook for logic sketches.

174.

Went from around a 78% on reading comp to 100%. Can't highlight on a computer monitor. :)

[proud gonzo]

awesome

[stoops the eternal pimp]

good for you Mike

[NYC Poke]

Mike, be prepared for a score a little lower than what you're getting on practices. This was my experience and the experience of my law school classmates. Even so, it looks like you're looking at the 95th to 97th percentile, easily, if not higher.

Also, read this before you go to law school:

http://ww3.lawschool.cornell.edu/faculty-pages/wendel/Torts_files/gordonarticle.pdf

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Mark?

[NYC Poke]

Mark?


I edited. Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!

Oh, and PG, I think there's a kill time of like 3 or 4 years on the LSAT score, meaning that if you want to go to law school 5 years from now, a score you did now for kicks/in the interest of science wouldn't count. I'm not sure of that, though, so check on it first if you decide to do this.

[Frozen Sooner]

Mike, be prepared for a score a little lower than what you're getting on practices. This was my experience and the experience of my law school classmates. Even so, it looks like you're looking at the 95th to 97th percentile, easily, if not higher.

Also, read this before you go to law school:

http://ww3.lawschool.cornell.edu/faculty-pages/wendel/Torts_files/gordonarticle.pdf

I am. Though strangely enough, the closer I get to simulating the actual test environment the better I've been doing.

[NYC Poke]

Well, keep up those kinds of scores and you may not have to change your school colors that much. ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, I also have to remember to not smear feces on the writing sample or something. :D

No studying tonight. I'm relaxing with The Foot Fist Way and making sure I get plenty of sleep.

[BU BEAR]

Mike, when you get offered a scholarship try to negotiate to make it guaranteed for all three years. Schools like to lure you in to get a handsome LSAT score in their file and play games to yank some scholys after your first year.

[Soonerus]

Mike, when you get offered a scholarship try to negotiate to make it guaranteed for all three years. Schools like to lure you in to get a handsome LSAT score in their file and play games to yank some scholys after your first year.

That sounds like a football team already planning the stategy for the BCS Championship game after game 4 of the season...

[Frozen Sooner]

Mike, when you get offered a scholarship try to negotiate to make it guaranteed for all three years. Schools like to lure you in to get a handsome LSAT score in their file and play games to yank some scholys after your first year.

Thank you for the advice. It's appreciated.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Good luck, give it hell!

[BU BEAR]

That sounds like a football team already planning the stategy for the BCS Championship game after game 4 of the season...

As I am a Baylor Bear, I am not too sure what you are talking about. What is this "BCS Championship" of which you speak, white man?

[Soonerus]

As I am a Baylor Bear, I am not too sure what you are talking about. What is this "BCS Championship" of which you speak, white man?

Don't worry about it, Tonto...

[King Crimson]

just go in relaxed. take your pencils, leave the iphone and everything else behind. don't be one of the people stressing.

the horses are on the track, the ducks are on the pond. you signed up for it...go in and take the test.

[Soonerus]

Good luck Froz...you'll do fine....

[Okla-homey]

Mike, when you get offered a scholarship try to negotiate to make it guaranteed for all three years. Schools like to lure you in to get a handsome LSAT score in their file and play games to yank some scholys after your first year.

They usually state a GPA requirement you must maintain to keep the scholly. I saw lots of people lose theirs for not maintaining the required 3.2 in law skool. And 3.2 is no small feat given the fact that GPA will generally put a person in the top 20% of their law skool class and will make a person a cum laude grad.

[BU BEAR]

They usually state a GPA requirement you must maintain to keep the scholly. I saw lots of people lose theirs for not maintaining the required 3.2 in law skool. And 3.2 is no small feat given the fact that GPA will generally put a person in the top 20% of their law skool class and will make a person a cum laude grad.

Right. However, some schools are not up front and dont put the GPA or class rank requirement in writing. My school did not establish written criteria until after we started our first semester. That is bush league and as you might imagine caused some consternation amongst the student body.

Another game that is played is to put the 1L scholies in the same section or to overweigh a particular section with scholarship students. The curve then takes care of a good number of those on scholarship.

If Mike Rich comes out with a 170 or so, he will have bargaining power even at some of the better schools. I wish him luck!

[Okla-homey]

Right. However, some schools are not up front and dont put the GPA or class rank requirement in writing. My school did not establish written criteria until after we started our first semester. That is bush league and as you might imagine caused some consternation amongst the student body.

Another game that is played is to put the 1L scholies in the same section or to overweigh a particular section with scholarship students. The curve then takes care of a good number of those on scholarship.



I doubt it. That would require some kind of conspiracy. You can't get three law skool profs to agree on the time of day, let alone a cunning plan like that.;)

As for my experience, in my scholly letter, they stated clearly keeping it was contingent on maintaining a 3.2. Kids did crash and lose their schollies, but mainly because they were'nt mature enough, self-disciplined enough and/or unable to manage their time effectively. Just as well too, because they'll be sucky lawyers if they lack those qualities.

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, I feel REALLY good about that test. My handwriting is atrocious, though.

Finished logic puzzles with three minutes to spare.

Everything else I finished with 10+ minutes and took the opportunity to recheck my answers.

[NYC Poke]

Test spek!

This test makes your brain hurt. Way to go, Mike.

[BU BEAR]

Well, I feel REALLY good about that test. My handwriting is atrocious, though.

Finished logic puzzles with three minutes to spare.

Everything else I finished with 10+ minutes and took the opportunity to recheck my answers.

I believe you said you hit a 170 in practice. Let's be conservative and say you made a 165 on the exam. In that case, nobody cares about your writing sample unless you are applying at a top 15 to 20 school. You will likely go into the automatic admit pile pretty quick with a 165 and a fairly early application.

[Frozen Sooner]

Thank you, sir. My practice tests were 158, 167, and 174. :D