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SoonerProphet
9/19/2008, 08:18 AM
http://www.dmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=Core+Pages&type=gen&mod=Core+Pages&tier=3&gid=B33A5C6E2CF04C9596A3EF81822D9F8E

THE MORE I LISTEN TO AND READ ABOUT “the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate,” the more I like him. Barack Obama strikes a chord with me like no political figure since Ronald Reagan. To explain why, I need to explain why I am a conservative and what it means to me.

In 1964, at the age of 16, I organized the Dallas County Youth for Goldwater. My senior thesis at the University of Texas was on the conservative intellectual revival in America. Twenty years later, I was invited by William F. Buckley Jr. to join the board of National Review. I later became its publisher.

Conservatism to me is less a political philosophy than a stance, a recognition of the fallibility of man and of man’s institutions. Conservatives respect the past not for its antiquity but because it represents, as G.K. Chesterton said, the democracy of the dead; it gives the benefit of the doubt to customs and laws tried and tested in the crucible of time. Conservatives are skeptical of abstract theories and utopian schemes, doubtful that government is wiser than its citizens, and always ready to test any political program against actual results.

Liberalism always seemed to me to be a system of “oughts.” We ought to do this or that because it’s the right thing to do, regardless of whether it works or not. It is a doctrine based on intentions, not results, on feeling good rather than doing good.

But today it is so-called conservatives who are cemented to political programs when they clearly don’t work. The Bush tax cuts—a solution for which there was no real problem and which he refused to end even when the nation went to war—led to huge deficit spending and a $3 trillion growth in the federal debt. Facing this, John McCain pumps his “conservative” credentials by proposing even bigger tax cuts. Meanwhile, a movement that once fought for limited government has presided over the greatest growth of government in our history. That is not conservatism; it is profligacy using conservatism as a mask.

Today it is conservatives, not liberals, who talk with alarming bellicosity about making the world “safe for democracy.” It is John McCain who says America’s job is to “defeat evil,” a theological expansion of the nation’s mission that would make George Washington cough out his wooden teeth.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority, and the wreckage of our economy that McCain now threatens to make worse.

Barack Obama is not my ideal candidate for president. (In fact, I made the maximum donation to John McCain during the primaries, when there was still hope he might come to his senses.) But I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don’t matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

“Every great cause,” Eric Hoffer wrote, “begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

C&CDean
9/19/2008, 08:35 AM
I stopped reading when I saw University of Texas. Meh. In fact, double meh.

SoonerProphet
9/19/2008, 08:36 AM
I am impressed you got passed Obama quite frankly.

C&CDean
9/19/2008, 08:43 AM
I got past him too.

jage
9/19/2008, 10:09 AM
Excellent post! I couldn't agree more.

I too, am a conservative voting for Obama for much of the same reasons as you stated above.

OklahomaTuba
9/19/2008, 10:20 AM
I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

Except when The One says he would invade Pakistan, right?

StoopTroup
9/19/2008, 10:21 AM
I can agree with this shortened statement.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority, and the wreckage of our economy

I can agree with this too.

Barack Obama is not my ideal candidate for president.

A few months ago...I believed this...but I have sinced watched him change instead of him talk about change....

But I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history.

This is probably true...no matter who wins...

It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

I believe Obama is moving towards "The Racket" part at light speed....I wish it wasn't true...

“Every great cause,” Eric Hoffer wrote, “begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

OklahomaTuba
9/19/2008, 10:22 AM
But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

And we know this how?

Because Obama has accomplished SOOO much?? He is seriously the most un-accomplished person in this entire race.

That fact that this author even thinks Obama has some sort of unique qualification is laughable at best.

StoopTroup
9/19/2008, 10:25 AM
And we know this how?

Because Obama has accomplished SOOO much?? He is seriously the most un-accomplished person in this entire race.

That fact that this author even thinks Obama has some sort of unique qualification is laughable at best.

I still think he's 3rd Tuba...but you can have it at 4th without much of a fight from me. :D

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/19/2008, 11:00 AM
More repulsive than laughable, unfortunately.

Veritas
9/19/2008, 12:08 PM
I could be more eloquent, but why bother: **** that noise.

SicEmBaylor
9/19/2008, 01:12 PM
http://www.dmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=Core+Pages&type=gen&mod=Core+Pages&tier=3&gid=B33A5C6E2CF04C9596A3EF81822D9F8E

THE MORE I LISTEN TO AND READ ABOUT “the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate,” the more I like him. Barack Obama strikes a chord with me like no political figure since Ronald Reagan. To explain why, I need to explain why I am a conservative and what it means to me.

In 1964, at the age of 16, I organized the Dallas County Youth for Goldwater. My senior thesis at the University of Texas was on the conservative intellectual revival in America. Twenty years later, I was invited by William F. Buckley Jr. to join the board of National Review. I later became its publisher.

Conservatism to me is less a political philosophy than a stance, a recognition of the fallibility of man and of man’s institutions. Conservatives respect the past not for its antiquity but because it represents, as G.K. Chesterton said, the democracy of the dead; it gives the benefit of the doubt to customs and laws tried and tested in the crucible of time. Conservatives are skeptical of abstract theories and utopian schemes, doubtful that government is wiser than its citizens, and always ready to test any political program against actual results.

Liberalism always seemed to me to be a system of “oughts.” We ought to do this or that because it’s the right thing to do, regardless of whether it works or not. It is a doctrine based on intentions, not results, on feeling good rather than doing good.

But today it is so-called conservatives who are cemented to political programs when they clearly don’t work. The Bush tax cuts—a solution for which there was no real problem and which he refused to end even when the nation went to war—led to huge deficit spending and a $3 trillion growth in the federal debt. Facing this, John McCain pumps his “conservative” credentials by proposing even bigger tax cuts. Meanwhile, a movement that once fought for limited government has presided over the greatest growth of government in our history. That is not conservatism; it is profligacy using conservatism as a mask.

Today it is conservatives, not liberals, who talk with alarming bellicosity about making the world “safe for democracy.” It is John McCain who says America’s job is to “defeat evil,” a theological expansion of the nation’s mission that would make George Washington cough out his wooden teeth.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority, and the wreckage of our economy that McCain now threatens to make worse.

Barack Obama is not my ideal candidate for president. (In fact, I made the maximum donation to John McCain during the primaries, when there was still hope he might come to his senses.) But I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don’t matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

“Every great cause,” Eric Hoffer wrote, “begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

This guy sounds very much like me. The only thing I disagree with him on is his implication that conservatism is not an ideology at all but merely resistance to fast or ineffective change in favor of the gradual and effective. In a sense, that is what conservatism is in a purely generic universal form in the mold of Burkean conservatism. The difference is that in these United States, unlike elsewhere, conservatism has a solid-written Constitution to provide a standard of measurement with which to evaluate various programs. In other words, American conservatism is and should be considered ideological because it seeks to preserve and/or re-establish a strict set of written principles and ideas embodied within the Constitution. Therefore, conservatives should not evaluate a program based on how effective or ineffective it is. A conservative would first evaluate a program to see if it passes constitutional muster and only then evaluate how effective or needed the program is.

This guy confuses conservatism as a personal temperament with conservatism as a political ideology/viewpoint.

StoopTroup
9/19/2008, 01:16 PM
You resistors are such a pain sometimes. :D ;)

http://jasondoesitall.com/bikewith2brains/2005726GreenWiredT.jpg

jage
9/19/2008, 01:24 PM
You resistors are such a pain sometimes. :D ;)

http://jasondoesitall.com/bikewith2brains/2005726GreenWiredT.jpg


LOL. When I first saw that LED, I thought it was a glowing condom. :O

olevetonahill
9/19/2008, 01:26 PM
Hes got My Vote ;)
http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/weblog/wp-content/files/080207_obama_shirt_vote.jpg

StoopTroup
9/19/2008, 01:26 PM
LOL. When I first saw that LED, I thought it was a glowing condom. :O

No...that's SicEm. :D ;)

jage
9/19/2008, 01:27 PM
No...that's SicEm. :D ;)

heh!

47straight
9/19/2008, 01:35 PM
You resistors are such a pain sometimes. :D ;)

http://jasondoesitall.com/bikewith2brains/2005726GreenWiredT.jpg

That's a diode.

Big Red Ron
9/19/2008, 01:40 PM
If you're voting for Obama it's either out of blind political allegiance to liberalism as it is currently manifested in the Democratic party or it's simply a result of personal, political apathy that allows for a mental crap shoot on a guy with no record and a closet full of bad guys.

I have philosophical contempt for the former and absolute disdain for the latter.

C&CDean
9/19/2008, 01:56 PM
If you're voting for Obama it's either out of blind political allegiance to liberalism as it is currently manifested in the Democratic party or it's simply a result of personal, political apathy that allows for a mental crap shoot on a guy with no record and a closet full of bad guys.

I have philosophical contempt for the former and absolute disdain for the latter.

You left out "because he black." I got a pretty good idea more folks are gonna vote for him for that reason than any of this other foolishness.

soonerscuba
9/19/2008, 01:58 PM
You left out "because he black." I got a pretty good idea more folks are gonna vote for him for that reason than any of this other foolishness.
I'm voting for him because I would like to have a beer with him.

C&CDean
9/19/2008, 02:00 PM
I'm voting for him because I would like to have a beer with him.

Now that is a reason to vote for somebody.

olevetonahill
9/19/2008, 02:02 PM
Now that is a reason to vote for somebody.

He may want to Dean , But he aint ever gonna GET to :rolleyes:

C&CDean
9/19/2008, 02:04 PM
He may want to Dean , But he aint ever gonna GET to :rolleyes:

Well I'd like to do Palin in the pooper, but I ain't never gonna get to either...

Big Red Ron
9/19/2008, 02:05 PM
You left out "because he black." I got a pretty good idea more folks are gonna vote for him for that reason than any of this other foolishness.
Well, that one goes both ways. :D

olevetonahill
9/19/2008, 02:06 PM
Well I'd like to do Palin in the pooper, but I ain't never gonna get to either...

So is that why you gonna Vote for her , ER I mean JSM ?

Big Red Ron
9/19/2008, 02:07 PM
I'm voting for him because I would like to have a beer with him.Then I'm voting for Olevet. ;)

C&CDean
9/19/2008, 02:08 PM
So is that why you gonna Vote for her , ER I mean JSM ?

Nah. I'm gonna vote for JSM and her because they most closely mirror my own personal beliefs/opinions/etc. I know, crazy concept.

Big Red Ron
9/19/2008, 02:16 PM
Nah. I'm gonna vote for JSM and her because they most closely mirror my own personal beliefs/opinions/etc. I know, crazy concept.
I've noticed that McCain voters tend to be able to articulate what they are looking for or want in their next Prez. while Obama mama's find that a more difficult task.

olevetonahill
9/19/2008, 02:20 PM
Nah. I'm gonna vote for JSM and her because they most closely mirror my own personal beliefs/opinions/etc. I know, crazy concept.

I See your still a ****ing Radical huh ?

KC//CRIMSON
9/19/2008, 02:25 PM
Nah. I'm gonna vote for JSM and her because they most closely mirror my own personal beliefs/opinions/etc. I know, crazy concept.


I'll buy your opinion on the old man, but not on Palin. The chick just popped up a few weeks ago. And besides giving a RNC slogan speech that was nothing more than Viagra for the masses and getting face slammed on the Bush doctrine, that's it. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nothing.

A breath of fresh air? Please. Admit it, Dean. She turns you on because she knows how to pack a muzzleloader and it makes you all tingly in the taint.

olevetonahill
9/19/2008, 02:27 PM
I'll buy your opinion on the old man, but not on Palin. The chick just popped up a few weeks ago. And besides giving a RNC slogan speech that was nothing more than Viagra for the masses and getting face slammed on the Bush doctrine, that's it. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nothing.

A breath of fresh air? Please. Admit it, Dean. She turns you on because she knows how to pack a muzzleloader and it makes you all tingly in the taint.

You say that like its a BAD thing :P

NormanPride
9/19/2008, 04:10 PM
This is an interesting take on things, and I agree that Obama is a thinker. However, the idea that he is the last bastion of conservatism because he thinks before following political passions is off. He's still a far left politico that wishes to implement programs and change tax structures in a way I do not think is best. The assumption that he thought long and hard about how to make these decisions makes me feel better about him as a person, but does nothing to assuage my fears about him as the leader of the free world.

Make no mistake, I would feel confident that his leadership would at least be true to his beliefs and his morals and not influenced by party lines or foreign interests. However, this does not mean I think these decisions would be correct for the nation, and that is why he will not receive my vote.

olevetonahill
9/19/2008, 04:13 PM
http://www.hchris.com/political_cartoons/20080314.jpg

StoopTroup
9/19/2008, 05:37 PM
That's a diode.

I'm pretty sure there is a resistor attached to SicEm in that pic. :D

stoopified
9/19/2008, 08:23 PM
Oxymoron?

Jerk
9/19/2008, 08:27 PM
I thught this was no politks frida?

r5TPsooner
9/19/2008, 09:21 PM
I could be more eloquent, but why bother: **** that noise.

yep

SoonerProphet
9/19/2008, 10:12 PM
This is an interesting take on things, and I agree that Obama is a thinker. However, the idea that he is the last bastion of conservatism because he thinks before following political passions is off. He's still a far left politico that wishes to implement programs and change tax structures in a way I do not think is best. The assumption that he thought long and hard about how to make these decisions makes me feel better about him as a person, but does nothing to assuage my fears about him as the leader of the free world.

Make no mistake, I would feel confident that his leadership would at least be true to his beliefs and his morals and not influenced by party lines or foreign interests. However, this does not mean I think these decisions would be correct for the nation, and that is why he will not receive my vote.

Well, since this seems to be the most cogent of any post I'll give it a shot.

I don't think Obama is by any stretch the last bastion of conservatism. I certainly hope not. I also have no doubt that he will implement social programs and a tax structue I personally can't find just or equitable.

The point of the article, I feel, would be his pragmatic and realist approach to foreign affairs. While many suggest that McCain has the necessary tools to deal with foreign policy. The realities of the situation seem to suggest otherwise.

Of course I thought the appointment of Colin Powell did point in the direction of a realist approach in the prior administration and not some utopian fantasy of transforming the world, but I was proven wrong.

Blue
9/19/2008, 11:26 PM
Well, since this seems to be the most cogent of any post I'll give it a shot.



Heh.

Collier11
9/19/2008, 11:55 PM
http://www.dmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=Core+Pages&type=gen&mod=Core+Pages&tier=3&gid=B33A5C6E2CF04C9596A3EF81822D9F8E

THE MORE I LISTEN TO AND READ ABOUT “the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate,” the more I like him. Barack Obama strikes a chord with me like no political figure since Ronald Reagan. To explain why, I need to explain why I am a conservative and what it means to me.

In 1964, at the age of 16, I organized the Dallas County Youth for Goldwater. My senior thesis at the University of Texas was on the conservative intellectual revival in America. Twenty years later, I was invited by William F. Buckley Jr. to join the board of National Review. I later became its publisher.

Conservatism to me is less a political philosophy than a stance, a recognition of the fallibility of man and of man’s institutions. Conservatives respect the past not for its antiquity but because it represents, as G.K. Chesterton said, the democracy of the dead; it gives the benefit of the doubt to customs and laws tried and tested in the crucible of time. Conservatives are skeptical of abstract theories and utopian schemes, doubtful that government is wiser than its citizens, and always ready to test any political program against actual results.

Liberalism always seemed to me to be a system of “oughts.” We ought to do this or that because it’s the right thing to do, regardless of whether it works or not. It is a doctrine based on intentions, not results, on feeling good rather than doing good.

But today it is so-called conservatives who are cemented to political programs when they clearly don’t work. The Bush tax cuts—a solution for which there was no real problem and which he refused to end even when the nation went to war—led to huge deficit spending and a $3 trillion growth in the federal debt. Facing this, John McCain pumps his “conservative” credentials by proposing even bigger tax cuts. Meanwhile, a movement that once fought for limited government has presided over the greatest growth of government in our history. That is not conservatism; it is profligacy using conservatism as a mask.

Today it is conservatives, not liberals, who talk with alarming bellicosity about making the world “safe for democracy.” It is John McCain who says America’s job is to “defeat evil,” a theological expansion of the nation’s mission that would make George Washington cough out his wooden teeth.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority, and the wreckage of our economy that McCain now threatens to make worse.

Barack Obama is not my ideal candidate for president. (In fact, I made the maximum donation to John McCain during the primaries, when there was still hope he might come to his senses.) But I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don’t matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

“Every great cause,” Eric Hoffer wrote, “begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.


He is a cult leader and you are drinking the koolaid

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 12:24 AM
If you're voting for Obama it's either out of blind political allegiance to liberalism as it is currently manifested in the Democratic party or it's simply a result of personal, political apathy that allows for a mental crap shoot on a guy with no record and a closet full of bad guys.

I have philosophical contempt for the former and absolute disdain for the latter.

Personally, I find it worthy of contempt when folks bust out a false dichotomy.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 01:19 PM
Personally, I find it worthy of contempt when folks bust out a false dichotomy.
By all means, prove it.

JohnnyMack
9/20/2008, 01:23 PM
If you're voting for Obama it's either out of blind political allegiance to liberalism as it is currently manifested in the Democratic party or it's simply a result of personal, political apathy that allows for a mental crap shoot on a guy with no record and a closet full of bad guys.

I have philosophical contempt for the former and absolute disdain for the latter.

I'm certain your allegiance to McCain is no more well reasoned and thought out than this simplistic analysis.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 01:59 PM
Well I'd like to do Palin in the pooper, but I ain't never gonna get to either...You know that most guys who like butt sexx have "ghey issues."

;)

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 02:26 PM
By all means, prove it.

Third possibility: You're uncomfortable with having a President whose mental faculties are sufficiently damaged that he thinks Iraq share a border with Afghanistan and who thinks Spain is in Latin America.

3 > 2, false dichotomy proved.

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 02:30 PM
Fourth Possibility: You see Palin as a much worse option than Obama could ever be. She makes you want to puke because she's such a snide, wretched wench who wouldn't know the truth if it bit her on the ***. And you know that McCain has a nearly 20% chance of biting it in the first term.

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 02:32 PM
Fifth possibility: More of the same as above, but you aren't willing to risk having a President who's such a wretched **** that she actually tried to charge rape victims for rape kits.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:01 PM
lol, straw men all based on no evidence at all.

See, I'm voting for McCain because I think Obama smokes. He could get cancer and leave the office to a hack like Biden. Yay, let's do more for fun.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:02 PM
Obama's just too thin. All the pressure could weaken such a fragile person.

:rolleyes:

SicEmBaylor
9/20/2008, 03:04 PM
I weep for the Republic.

JohnnyMack
9/20/2008, 03:05 PM
lol, straw men all based on no evidence at all.

See, I'm voting for McCain because I think Obama smokes. He could get cancer and leave the office to a hack like Biden. Yay, let's do more for fun.

You're getting more and more Homey-like every day. Unable to address simple answers as you have yourself convinced that everyone else is a moron.

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 03:07 PM
lol, straw men all based on no evidence at all.

Maybe, but they're reasons other than the two you presented. Hence, false dichotomy.

Remember, to show false dichotomy, I don't have to show other reasons are good or particularly valid. I only have to show that other reasons exist.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:10 PM
Maybe, but they're reasons other than the two you presented. Hence, false dichotomy.Well, in that sense, sure but my basic point is founded in a little more than, "Anythings possible." And, it's still encompasses most Obama voters. Liberals (based on his own words) and "New voters" who have been so apathetic that this guy has them excited for some reason.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:11 PM
You're getting more and more Homey-like every day. Unable to address simple answers as you have yourself convinced that everyone else is a moron.
And your comments grow even more useless and irrelevant. Let the grown ups chat here Johnny.

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 03:13 PM
Another reason: Based on Bush and co's showing, some people just are stark, raving mad with hatred for the Republican party.

Not particularly rational, but hey. :D

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:20 PM
I would submit you, as evidenced by his voting against Bush's last round of tax cuts, support for amnesty for illegals and sheer will in forcing the "surge," that McCain is not going to be the same type of Republican Prez and Bush was.

JohnnyMack
9/20/2008, 03:28 PM
And your comments grow even more useless and irrelevant. Let the grown ups chat here Johnny.

You're doing a bang up job of defending your arguments. Imma go play with some tinker toys.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:39 PM
You're doing a bang up job of defending your arguments. Imma go play with some tinker toys.
lol, if that's what you think, you're even less bright than I thought. Try rereading the last few, real, real, slowly. Enyoy your play time, nappy time right after, ok big boy.

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 03:43 PM
I would submit you, as evidenced by his voting against Bush's last round of tax cuts, support for amnesty for illegals and sheer will in forcing the "surge," that McCain is not going to be the same type of Republican Prez and Bush was.

Which is why I'm not all that unhappy with the current situation. In my opinion, whoever wins, we'll have a better President in the White House than we currently do.

Both of them recognize that appearance matters. Both of them realize that diplomacy is and ought to be an option. Both of them realize that allies really do matter.

As far as which one I'll vote for, neither has separated in my mind. They've both taken positions I like, and some I don't. At this point, I just have to figure out which candidate has the combination of positions least likely to make me want to vomit.

Instead of proposing tax cuts and social spending increases, how about we balance the budget first? How about we do something about the balance of trade? What about addressing the demand side of the energy question? What about the fact that social security is invested in treasury debt, which is the same as writing yourself an IOU? Great, you're both going to be tough on terrorism; but that problem requires more than just a big stick. Just ask Israel. What else are you bringing to the table?

They're both dancing around the really tough problems, and both are Big Rock Candy Mountain, as Homey is wont to say.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 03:51 PM
Which is why I'm not all that unhappy with the current situation. In my opinion, whoever wins, we'll have a better President in the White House than we currently do.

Both of them recognize that appearance matters. Both of them realize that diplomacy is and ought to be an option. Both of them realize that allies really do matter.

As far as which one I'll vote for, neither has separated in my mind. They've both taken positions I like, and some I don't. At this point, I just have to figure out which candidate has the combination of positions least likely to make me want to vomit.

Instead of proposing tax cuts and social spending increases, how about we balance the budget first? How about we do something about the balance of trade? What about addressing the demand side of the energy question? What about the fact that social security is invested in treasury debt, which is the same as writing yourself an IOU? Great, you're both going to be tough on terrorism; but that problem requires more than just a big stick. Just ask Israel. What else are you bringing to the table?

They're both dancing around the really tough problems, and both are Big Rock Candy Mountain, as Homey is wont to say.
See, you and I aren't that far apart.

However, I have a deep conviction that Obama has already crossed which prevents me from voting for him. Raising taxes. It is impossible to tax your way to prosperity and Obama's running on raising taxes.

Furthermore, the Dem's control both the house and senate. That type of unchecked power, by either party is never good for Americans. We like divided government. Which is why I believe, at the end of the day, It'll be McCain. JMO

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 03:56 PM
If I end up voting for McCain, it'll probably be mostly because I like divided government.

Of course, I have to balance that against the possibility that if McCain is elected, we'll end up with an undivided Supreme Court -- and that lasts much longer than an undivided Congress/White House.

SicEmBaylor
9/20/2008, 04:01 PM
If I end up voting for McCain, it'll probably be mostly because I like divided government.

Of course, I have to balance that against the possibility that if McCain is elected, we'll end up with an undivided Supreme Court -- and that lasts much longer than an undivided Congress/White House.

I don't like an undivided Supreme Court, but I do like division between the other two branches. The importance of split-government can't be underestimated.

Spek

Vaevictis
9/20/2008, 04:07 PM
However, I have a deep conviction that Obama has already crossed which prevents me from voting for him. Raising taxes. It is impossible to tax your way to prosperity and Obama's running on raising taxes.

Eh, see, I fundamentally disagree with this due to its implications.

Take a 0% tax rate, and you have anarchy; that's obviously not optimal. So, clearly, there is some tax rate for which a higher rate is optimal.

The real question is where does it currently lie? I just don't get people who can, with 100% conviction, claim that it's below the current one. If the smartest, most educated, best informed economists in the world can't figure it out, how do you know buddy? ;)

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 04:24 PM
And your comments grow even more useless and irrelevant. Let the grown ups chat here Johnny.
lol, if that's what you think, you're even less bright than I thought. Try rereading the last few, real, real, slowly. Enyoy your play time, nappy time right after, ok big boy.Jesus...I've never seen someone so cocky with so little reason. :rolleyes:

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 04:25 PM
Eh, see, I fundamentally disagree with this due to its implications.

Take a 0% tax rate, and you have anarchy; that's obviously not optimal. So, clearly, there is some tax rate for which a higher rate is optimal.
;)
Yeah, but we're far away from zero. I wouldn't advocate for such a silly thing but right now, I believe we are over taxed.

Sabanball
9/20/2008, 04:26 PM
Whoever wins--whether it's Obama or McCain--America loses. JMO

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 04:32 PM
Well THAT'S just a dumb statement.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 04:32 PM
Jesus...I've never seen someone so cocky with so little reason. :rolleyes:
Really? Do you know me? I have forgotten more about public policy and political reality than most here have ever been exposed to. You included, "Mr. Republican know-it-all."

You come here and look down your nose at conservatives all the time. Perhaps your statement is a reflection of you own shortcomings. In case you haven't noticed I have found middle ground with some of the most liberal posters on this board. Why? Because I know the difference between a loudmouth moran and an educated person of a different philosophical viewpoint.

But thanks for adding to the already conceived view that you're either a troll or just another 60K a year millionaire in LA.

StoopTroup
9/20/2008, 04:36 PM
60K a year millionaire in LA.

Is that Obama poor?

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 04:38 PM
Is that Obama poor?
Nah, that's Obama rich, someone obviously not paying their fair share of taxes. :D j/k

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 04:52 PM
Really? Do you know me? I have forgotten more about public policy and political reality than most here have ever been exposed to. You included, "Mr. Republican know-it-all."

You come here and look down your nose at conservatives all the time. Perhaps your statement is a reflection of you own shortcomings. In case you haven't noticed I have found middle ground with some of the most liberal posters on this board. Why? Because I know the difference between a loudmouth moran and an educated person of a different philosophical viewpoint.

But thanks for adding to the already conceived view that you're either a troll or just another 60K a year millionaire in LA.And you just drive my point home for me. Thanks.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 05:02 PM
Fail.

Collier11
9/20/2008, 05:03 PM
This is what is so wrong about America, we spend more time fighting over what party or philosophy is right or wrong that nothing ever gets accomplished. Not coming after anyone individually, Im talking about society and politics as a whole

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 05:12 PM
This is what is so wrong about America, we spend more time fighting over what party or philosophy is right or wrong that nothing ever gets accomplished. Not coming after anyone individually, Im talking about society and politics as a wholeOH SCREW YOU!!

lol, j/k actually, I think your point has some merit but it's also a fundamental problem with all democratic forms government.

If you look at political cartoons and other forms of political communications in the 1800's you would have thought we were down right civil nowadays.

Collier11
9/20/2008, 05:16 PM
OH SCREW YOU!!

lol, j/k actually, I think your point has some merit but it's also a fundamental problem with all democratic forms government.

If you look at political cartoons and other forms of political communications in the 1800's you would have thought we were down right civil nowadays.

I def agree, IMO it shouldnt be about what is best for the Rep party or Dem party, what is best for your political career, but what is best for our country.

I guess im just an idealist :confused: :D

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 05:20 PM
I def agree, IMO it shouldnt be about what is best for the Rep party or Dem party, what is best for your political career, but what is best for our country.

I guess im just an idealist :confused: :DYou are.

I am not a big "Party" guy. I do know that McCain is hated and I mean hated by the rank and file Republican party types because he isn't a "Party" guy.

When they call him a maverick, it isn't hyperbole.

JohnnyMack
9/20/2008, 05:39 PM
John McCain's actions over the last week make me comfortable with my choice.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 05:53 PM
Fail.
Really?

Let me illustrate just how your post reinforced what I said.

First you say:

Really? Do you know me? But follow up with:

I have forgotten more about public policy and political reality than most here have ever been exposed to. You included, "Mr. Republican know-it-all."Even though you clearly don't know me.

I called you out for being blindingly, humorously arrogant with no qualifications. Your response?

I have forgotten more about public policy and political reality than most here have ever been exposed to....a blindly, humorously arrogant statement. Unprovable. Baseless and (for you) embarrassing.

To continue:

You come here and look down your nose at conservatives all the time. Perhaps your statement is a reflection of you own shortcomings.
Which is exactly what you're doing with me and what you've done with conservatives on this board all year long. And you're even worse with our Liberal posters.

Next you claim that:

In case you haven't noticed I have found middle ground with some of the most liberal posters on this board. Why? Because I know the difference between a loudmouth moran and an educated person of a different philosophical viewpoint.This is fail on two points. 1) I have yet to see one "Liberal Poster" on this board who agrees with you on just about anything (equally so with my fellow moderate conservatives) and 2) just because they choose not to engage you in your frequent name calling and arrogant condescension doesn't mean that you've found "middle ground," it just means they're tired of banging their heads against a wall when you continue to ignore all the facts and figures they present and cling to your own narrow minded beliefs.

Finally you close with a CLASSIC BRR post. One that you have already been called out for in this very thread:

But thanks for adding to the already conceived view that you're either a troll or just another 60K a year millionaire in LA.
In one single sentence you manage to name call with a personal attack, obsess with the West Coast (and those eevil Kalifornieens), bust out with yet ANOTHER false dichotomyAND make a claim with absolutely NO facts to support your assertion.

A CLASSIC BRR post which reinforces what I very simply said. Thank you, sir. I will now leave you to continue embarrasing yourself. :)

KC//CRIMSON
9/20/2008, 06:01 PM
Watch out LAS!

Haven't you heard? BRR has more pull than the mayor of OKC...

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:03 PM
You must not be one of the fortunate ones to have found the fabled "middle ground" that he's always going on about. :D

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 06:13 PM
You must not be one of the fortunate ones to have found the fabled "middle ground" that he's always going on about. :D
Nah, KC's just a just a regular statesman.

KC//CRIMSON
9/20/2008, 06:23 PM
Nah, KC's just a just a regular statesman.


You know, they do have professionals who can help you with that speech impediment.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:24 PM
Nah, KC's just a just a regular statesman.
You know, they do have professionals who can help you with that speech impediment.I say I say you MAIGHT be RAIGHT, son!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Foghorn_Leghorn.png

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 06:28 PM
yeah, it was hard to get out. I shouldn't type out and out lies anymore. Maybe you two can give each other hand jobs to sooth your inferiority complexes?

Catch you in another thread. I'm done with this one since you guys are the only ones left, and have added an astounding amount of nothing.

Curly Bill
9/20/2008, 06:30 PM
This thread started out craptacularly and after 3 pages hasn't gotten any better.

Anyway, just sayin.

....and yeah, three pages is as far as I got.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/20/2008, 06:32 PM
I would submit you, as evidenced by his voting against Bush's last round of tax cuts, support for amnesty for illegals and sheer will in forcing the "surge," that McCain is not going to be the same type of Republican Prez and Bush was.Alas, the saddest thing is to realize the Obama would even be worse.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:32 PM
yeah, it was hard to get out. I shouldn't type out and out lies anymore. Maybe you two can give each other hand jobs to sooth your inferiority complexes?

Catch you in another thread. I'm done with this one since you guys are the only ones left, and have added an astounding amount of nothing.Personal attack.
Gay innuendo.
Arrogance.
Condescension.
Failure to face the facts.
Consistently getting pwn3d.

Yeah. BRR lived up to his usual standard! :D

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 06:32 PM
This thread started out craptacularly and after 3 pages hasn't gotten any better.

Anyway, just sayin.

....and yeah, three pages is as far as I got.You didn't miss much. After gettin pwn3d the usual trolls showed up and jacked it.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 06:34 PM
Personal attack.
Gay innuendo.
Arrogance.
Condescension.
Failure to face the facts.
Consistently getting pwn3d.

Yeah. BRR lived up to his usual standard! :DI certainly did. I and two others actually had a nice conversation, we got a little silly and you showed up to look like an *** again. I win again. yay, out.

KC//CRIMSON
9/20/2008, 06:35 PM
yeah, it was hard to get out. I shouldn't type out and out lies anymore. Maybe you two can give each other hand jobs to sooth your inferiority complexes?

Catch you in another thread. I'm done with this one since you guys are the only ones left, and have added an astounding amount of nothing.


Stellar job there, Ron.

Just like some people on here who have met you in person said...

"Yep, he's pretty much an *sshole in person too!"

You stay classy, big okc polling guy!

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:36 PM
Awww...I thought you had taken your massive and unmatched expertise and intelligence to a different sand box to play!

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:38 PM
Stellar job there, Ron.

Just like some people on here who have met you in person said...

"Yep, he's pretty much an *sshole in person too!"

You stay classy, big okc polling guy!
STOP!

He's already declared himself the winner even though he got pwn3d for three pages! Once he's done that it's OVER.

Don't you know the RUUULLLZZZZZZZ?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

GOSH!

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 06:40 PM
Stellar job there, Ron.

Just like some people on here who have met you in person said...

"Yep, he's pretty much an *sshole in person too"

You stay classy, big okc polling guy!I have only met two people on this board and we said about two words to each other. I will not asses my judgment of them, as I assume they're just a couple of college dudes. I hear one even got a hair cut. :D

If you ever need any market research or polling. You know who to call. Tell Jim Talent I said hi.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:41 PM
Dude. You keep ruining your grand exit by un-exiting.

Big Red Ron
9/20/2008, 06:43 PM
STOP!

He's already declared himself the winner even though he got pwn3d for three pages! Once he's done that it's OVER.

Don't you know the RUUULLLZZZZZZZ?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

GOSH!
I got "pwn3d" by who? You? lol, you guys show up after the actual conversation occured and saw that your side lost and you started to attack me. If that's losing, I'll take it.

You guys stay classy.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 06:45 PM
I got "pwn3d" by who? You? lol, you guys show up after the actual conversation occured and saw that your side lost and you started to attack me. If that's losing, I'll take it.

You guys stay classy.
Okay. Is this your final FINAL proclamation of victory/grand exit?

'Cause I want to make sure I don't start laughing while you're still in the room.

Collier11
9/20/2008, 06:57 PM
Does anyone else think Vin Diesel should win the Oscar this year?

Frozen Sooner
9/20/2008, 07:01 PM
Simmer down.

Frozen Sooner
9/20/2008, 07:02 PM
Does anyone else think Vin Diesel should win the Oscar this year?

One of my friends did stunt work for Vin in Babylon AD. Seriously.

Collier11
9/20/2008, 07:04 PM
Thats cool, kind of ;)

Frozen Sooner
9/20/2008, 07:07 PM
Not really. Cool for him, though.

He got the gig by holding the world record for longest snowmachine jump. He's the one doing all the crazy snowmachine tricks in the movie.

Guy's one of those dudes you want to hate but he's such a nice guy you can't. Former minor league hockey player, hot wife, made district manager at Wells Fargo by the time he was 28, etc.

47straight
9/20/2008, 07:10 PM
John McCain's actions over the last week make me comfortable with my choice.


And Obama's followers' actions over the last two weeks frighten me.

LosAngelesSooner
9/20/2008, 07:20 PM
Does anyone else think Vin Diesel should win the Oscar this year?
For playing heterosexual?

No. They only give Oscars for an actor's performance ON SCREEN.

;)

jage
9/20/2008, 08:20 PM
wow...as an outsider, I'd definitely say that was some major ownage...

It seems like BRR is a pretty knowledgeable guy, but sometimes you just gotta stop running your mouth because it only makes you look stupid.

ok, carry on...:pop:

SouthCarolinaSooner
9/20/2008, 08:55 PM
http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/
Duh of course he "strikes a chord" with you, he's the goddamn messiah
:pop:

StoopTroup
9/21/2008, 03:16 PM
I hope all of you are organ donors...

Some of you will surely have stuff available once the election is over.

OUthunder
9/21/2008, 04:46 PM
I hope all of you are organ donors...

Some of you will surely have stuff available once the election is over.

heh

Rogue
9/21/2008, 04:47 PM
I'm one who is pretty optimistic about either option.

I'm increasingly disappointed with both VP running mates though. Jheez, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel with both Biden and Palin.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 05:39 PM
Obama has been a notorious member of the chicago democratic machine.
look up "obama and rezko"

Obama has made many shady decisions with shady people.

Rogue
9/21/2008, 05:42 PM
Obama has been a notorious member of the chicago democratic machine.
look up "obama and rezko"

Obama has made many shady decisions with shady people.

Pretty specific charges there, cr. :rolleyes:

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 06:24 PM
Pretty specific charges there, cr. :rolleyes:

Michelles Obamas employer, University of Chicago Hospitals, raised her pay from 121,910 in 2004 to 316,962 in 2005, two months after her husband became a US Senator. Barack Obama would later request a 1 million federal earmark for the hospital.

Obama was one of the few Dems to support Alexi Giannoulias for state treasurer in 2006. Giannoulias bank had been loaning money to mafia figures. He had supported Obama in 2004 Senate Campaign, and the campaign kept accounts at Giannoulias's family bank.

Tony Rezko was convicted in June 2008 on 16 counts of fraud and money laundering, was a top fundraiser and donor to Obama. Rezko, a developer, benefitted from developer subsidies that Obama Sponsered and voted for in the Illinois State Senate.

Curly Bill
9/21/2008, 06:49 PM
Michelles Obamas employer, University of Chicago Hospitals, raised her pay from 121,910 in 2004 to 316,962 in 2005, two months after her husband became a US Senator. Barack Obama would later request a 1 million federal earmark for the hospital.

Obama was one of the few Dems to support Alexi Giannoulias for state treasurer in 2006. Giannoulias bank had been loaning money to mafia figures. He had supported Obama in 2004 Senate Campaign, and the campaign kept accounts at Giannoulias's family bank.

Tony Rezko was convicted in June 2008 on 16 counts of fraud and money laundering, was a top fundraiser and donor to Obama. Rezko, a developer, benefitted from developer subsidies that Obama Sponsered and voted for in the Illinois State Senate.

Yeah, but Brack is the Messiah, so it's OK.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 06:53 PM
Yeah, but McAlzheimer is a Pub, so it's like the Keating Five thing never happened.

Cause both of them have no skeletons in their closets, right?

:D

Curly Bill
9/21/2008, 06:54 PM
Cause both of them have no skeletons in their closets, right?

:D

...but only one of them is the most liberal senator in the US Senate...

...not that he was there that much.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 06:57 PM
...but only one of them is the most liberal senator in the US Senate...

...not that he was there that much.

less than 200 days correct?

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 06:59 PM
...but only one of them is the most liberal senator in the US Senate...

...not that he was there that much.



Any guesses on who has had the most "sick days" in the senate this session? On a side note, how many ****ing days of work can these people miss?

Curly Bill
9/21/2008, 07:00 PM
Any guesses on who has had the most "sick days" in the senate this session? On a side note, how many ****ing days of work can these people miss?

For most of them the more they miss the better for the country probably.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:01 PM
Heh, go figure. Coburn and Inhofe are there more often than not. Wouldn't want to deprive the Senate of their company :D

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:02 PM
For most of them the more they miss the better for the country probably.

I like how you covered you *** with the qualifier "most" nicely played CB, nicely played :D

Curly Bill
9/21/2008, 07:04 PM
I like how you covered you *** with the qualifier "most" nicely played CB, nicely played :D

That's cause most of them are teh suck! ;)

...including both running for POTUS, I just think the more liberal of the two sucks the hardest. :D

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 07:04 PM
Cause both of them have no skeletons in their closets, right?

:D
Dude, one has an actual record of being an agent for change and not being a "party line" guy.

One says he's an agent for change, yet he has no record that points to that and his rise from the state senate in Illinois 4 years ago was created by people like Resko, Jerehmia Wright, Bill Ayers and worse. Guys like Nadhmi Auchi.

Just for an example of his relationship with one of these guys look at his 17 year relationship with Rezko, it is impossible to quantify the amount in contributions funnelled to Obama by Rezko using his ill gotten gains. Nor can it be ascertained at this time if the favors done by Obama for Rezko — large and small — involve him in illegal activities. It certainly has him enmeshed with some extremely shady characters in Rezko and Auchi.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:05 PM
The perfect attendance record goes to:

John Barrasso (R-WY)
* Representing: Wyoming
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 417 votes cast

Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA)
* Representing: Pennsylvania
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast

Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME)
* Representing: Maine
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast

Sen. Russell Feingold (D-WI)
* Representing: Wisconsin
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast

Charles Grassley (R-IA)
* Representing: Iowa
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast

Sen. Herb Kohl (D-WI)
* Representing: Wisconsin
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast

Sen. Kenneth Salazar (D-CO)
* Representing: Colorado
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
* Representing: Maine
* Votes: 0 votes missed (0%), 643 votes cast


Nerds even came to work for Senator Skip Day.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:08 PM
Dude, one has an actual record of being an agent for change and not being a "party line" guy.

One says he's an agent for change, yet he has no record that points to that and his rise from the state senate in Illinois 4 years ago was created by people like Resko, Jerehmia Wright, Bill Ayers and worse. Guys like Nadhmi Auchi.

Just for an example of his relationship with one of these guys look at his 17 year relationship with Rezko, it is impossible to quantify the amount in contributions funnelled to Obama by Rezko using his ill gotten gains. Nor can it be ascertained at this time if the favors done by Obama for Rezko — large and small — involve him in illegal activities. It certainly has him enmeshed with some extremely shady characters in Rezko and Auchi.

Blah Blah Blah, I ain't reading that **** so take it elsewhere. I thought you left anyways? Hell, thats the only reason I poked my head in. Me and CB can poke fun at each other, but all you do is **** people right the **** off. Why don't you go find some middle ground between your ******* and your pecker?

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 07:12 PM
I honestly don't know why I bother but I hope you guys know, I'm not here to tell you you're wrong. I'm begging you to not vote for Obama.

At best, given his record and words, a vote for him is a leap of faith. We're in a war with radical Islam. If they can somehow infiltrate and exploit us, we can forget about all the little philosophical disagreements on the US domestic issues, we'll be dead or bleeding profusely.

If there is one thing I am damn certain of, It's that John McCain will defend this nation. I honestly don't believe Obama is up to making decisions like, what if Iran gets a nuke? Or, what if Russia moves in on more Eastern European allies?

Scary to think of that responsibility left to a smooth talking, empty suit, state senator just a few short years ago.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 07:14 PM
Blah Blah Blah, I ain't reading that **** so take it elsewhere. I thought you left anyways? Hell, thats the only reason I poked my head in. Me and CB can poke fun at each other, but all you do is **** people right the **** off. Why don't you go find some middle ground between your ******* and your pecker?

its all truth that you arent reading.

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 07:15 PM
Blah Blah Blah, I ain't reading that **** so take it elsewhere. I thought you left anyways? Hell, thats the only reason I poked my head in. Me and CB can poke fun at each other, but all you do is **** people right the **** off. Why don't you go find some middle ground between your ******* and your pecker?Listen new guy, I am worried about our country and have information that you either don't know or don't care about. Why don't you leave. If you can't handle talking about FACTS then you are the one with a problem, not me.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 07:17 PM
Listen new guy, I am worried about our country and have information that you either don't know or don't care about. Why don't you leave. If you can't handle talking about FACTS then you are the one with a problem, not me.

owned.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:29 PM
I honestly don't know why I bother but I hope you guys know, I'm not here to tell you you're wrong. I'm begging you to not vote for Obama.

At best, given his record and words, a vote for him is a leap of faith. We're in a war with radical Islam. If they can somehow infiltrate and exploit us, we can forget about all the little philosophical disagreements on the US domestic issues, we'll be dead or bleeding profusely.

If there is one thing I am damn certain of, It's that John McCain will defend this nation. I honestly don't believe Obama is up to making decisions like, what if Iran gets a nuke? Or, what if Russia moves in on more Eastern European allies?

Scary to think of that responsibility left to a smooth talking, empty suit, state senator just a few short years ago.

I have calmed down a bit, but you have to admit that some of the neg you have given me over the last few months is pretty chicken ****. I read what you posted, nothing to bad I have to admit. I figured you go back to calling me an uneducated idiot for not liking McCain.

No, Obama is a politician, as is McCain. They deal with unscrupulous people. Everyone knows that, and no one denies that. (Except for the real kool-aid drinkers that actually believe their party's talking points.) To say that McCain is lily white and Obama is evil (or vice-versa) is just plain stupid though. When you bring up a point against the other guy, you have to expect someone else to bring up a counter point about your guy. Guess what, both are probably seated in fact.

Did Obama's pastor say "God Damn America!" Yes. Did McCain's say that "Hitler was doing God's work!" Yes.

They are both as dirty as the day is long, so what? That's what we want in our politicians isn't it? Must be, we keeping reelecting them term after term.

As for your fear, I don't know what to say but I am truly sorry you are so afraid man. It seems that most Americans are these days, and it is the politicians that made it this way. Fear keeps us enslaved to them, and they all know it. So be afraid of Muslims, be afraid of Social Security, be afraid of the markets and be afraid of Iran, cause according to both parties, they are all going to be the ruin of the United States of America.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:32 PM
owned.

STFU. You have know clue what it is that is between him and me. BTW, who he is voting for doesn't affect my feelings towards him one bit. I like Bill and Olevet just fine. I respect their decision cause the respect mine, unlike some folks.

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 07:40 PM
I have calmed down a bit, but you have to admit that some of the neg you have given me over the last few months is pretty chicken ****. I read what you posted, nothing to bad I have to admit. I figured you go back to calling me an uneducated idiot for not liking McCain.

No, Obama is a politician, as is McCain. They deal with unscrupulous people. Everyone knows that, and no one denies that. (Except for the real kool-aid drinkers that actually believe their party's talking points.) To say that McCain is lily white and Obama is evil (or vice-versa) is just plain stupid though. When you bring up a point against the other guy, you have to expect someone else to bring up a counter point about your guy. Guess what, both are probably seated in fact.

Did Obama's pastor say "God Damn America!" Yes. Did McCain's say that "Hitler was doing God's work!" Yes.

They are both as dirty as the day is long, so what? That's what we want in our politicians isn't it? Must be, we keeping reelecting them term after term.

As for your fear, I don't know what to say but I am truly sorry you are so afraid man. It seems that most Americans are these days, and it is the politicians that made it this way. Fear keeps us enslaved to them, and they all know it. So be afraid of Muslims, be afraid of Social Security, be afraid of the markets and be afraid of Iran, cause according to both parties, they are all going to be the ruin of the United States of America.Dude, if you aren't worried about nuclear proliferation combined with ridiculous amounts of oil money, and the fact that all of that just happens to culminate in the middle east and their suicide bombing, western civilization hating people, I don't know what to tell you. If there is one thing Bush was, is, and always will be credited with, it's taking the war to them. Barack's statements send shivers down my spine. At the end of the day that's why he won't be elected, IMO.

BTW, I've never left anything "chicken****." I have negged you a couple times, signed them and I have always stood behind what I've done here.

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:47 PM
Dude, if you aren't worried about nuclear proliferation combined with ridiculous amounts of oil money, and the fact that all of that just happens to culminate in the middle east and their suicide bombing, western civilization hating people, I don't know what to tell you. If there is one thing Bush was, is, and always will be credited with, it's taking the war to them. Barack's statements send shivers down my spine. At the end of the day that's why he won't be elected, IMO.

BTW, I've never left anything "chicken****." I have negged you a couple times, signed them and I have always stood behind what I've done here.

First, you don't have to sign them anymore. Second, I remember one that was something along the lines of "Nice neg, to bad your spek hammer is the size of of dog's ****." And can't forget about the one when I backed your kid into a corner and the only thing who could say was "I'm going to go eat a steak now." I think your reply to those was something along the lines of "Now your on my **** list." Really, WTF did I do to you directly? nothing. But this isn't a thread about spek, those are banned from what I hear.

You ever stop to think, what would happen if Iran really did get some nukes? You know what Israel can do don't you? You think if Iran got a nuke that Israel would allow so much as a nerf football to be thrown their way without turning Iran into a parking lot? Also, why is Obama the "infiltrator"? Wasn't it McCain that was held captive for 5-6 years by a communist regime?

Oh, and the new kid thing is cute. You've been here a year longer than me ;)

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 07:53 PM
First, you don't have to sign them anymore. Second, I remember one that was something along the lines of "Nice neg, to bad your spek hammer is the size of of dog's ****." And can't forget about the one when I backed your kid into a corner and the only thing who could say was "I'm going to go eat a steak now." I think your reply to those was something along the lines of "Now your on my **** list." Really, WTF did I do to you directly? nothing. But this isn't a thread about spek, those are banned from what I hear.

You ever stop to think, what would happen if Iran really did get some nukes? You know what Israel can do don't you? You think if Iran got a nuke that Israel would allow so much as a nerf football to be thrown their way without turning Iran into a parking lot? Also, why is Obama the "infiltrator"? Wasn't it McCain that was held captive for 5-6 years by a communist regime?

Oh, and the new kid thing is cute. You've been here a year longer than me ;)
Look man, I don't really care about the petty stuff but I negged you back. If you don't want none, don't start none.

BTW, FYI - you joined here a year after this board was changed over from the last board. That was like the 3rd or 4th version of this board. I joined SF.com in 1997

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 07:55 PM
Look man, I don't really care about the petty stuff but I negged you back. If you don't want none, don't start none.

BTW, FYI - you joined here a year after this board was changed over from the last board. That was like the 3rd or 4th version of this board. I joined SF.com in 1997

K, can I call you old man then?:D

KC//CRIMSON
9/21/2008, 07:57 PM
If you don't want none, don't start none.




Could you be anymore of a hick?

Sooner_Havok
9/21/2008, 08:00 PM
Could you be anymore of a hick?

He could have thrown in the obligatory "Git R' done", so yes, yes he could:D

jage
9/21/2008, 08:08 PM
If there is one thing I am damn certain of, It's that John McCain will defend this nation. I honestly don't believe Obama is up to making decisions like, what if Iran gets a nuke? Or, what if Russia moves in on more Eastern European allies?

Scary to think of that responsibility left to a smooth talking, empty suit, state senator just a few short years ago.

I agree, I feel more confident with McCain on international affairs, but right now, we need to concentrate on our own problems. If something drastic does happen, I still think Obama could defend our country just fine.

I think its scarier that if McCain croaks, Palin could be left with this responsibility. Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that you believe Palin would be able to defend our nation?

KC//CRIMSON
9/21/2008, 08:18 PM
I agree, I feel more confident with McCain on international affairs, but right now, we need to concentrate on our own problems. If something drastic does happen, I still think Obama could defend our country just fine.

I think its scarier that if McCain croaks, Palin could be left with this responsibility. Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that you believe Palin would be able to defend our nation?

He would tell you with a straight face that a paper clip could defend our nation if it were part of the GOP ticket.

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 08:23 PM
He would tell you with a straight face that a paper clip could defend our nation if it were part of the GOP ticket.
lol, see you have no idea what I am or know. I am not a Republican party guy. I am a conservative and many of my friends are Libertarians but since we really only have two parties, well there ya go. I disagree with a lot of Republicans.

I am not like you, some guy that thinks the Democrat party is the best thing ever and that Obama is here to save our Republic.

You're down right silly. Hick? lol, I tried to be humorous and that's what I get? Wow, you're the guy from Kansas frickin City, please dude.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 08:48 PM
mccain never said that, a crazy preacher supporting him did. idiot.

Curly Bill
9/21/2008, 08:52 PM
Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that you believe Palin would be able to defend our nation?

As compared to Brack? Yes.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 09:00 PM
As compared to Brack? Yes.

BUT I THOUGHT WE COULD JUST "NEGOTIATE" WITH IRAN :confused: ;) :P

Big Red Ron
9/21/2008, 09:00 PM
K, can I call you old man then?:DI've been called worse. ;)

Ardmore_Sooner
9/21/2008, 09:01 PM
mccain never said that, a crazy preacher supporting him did. idiot.

He didn't, one of his backers did. Just more political smearing between the two candidates.

colinreturn
9/21/2008, 09:05 PM
He didn't, one of his backers did. Just more politcal smearing between the two candidates.

yep

JohnnyMack
9/21/2008, 11:01 PM
Dude, one has an actual record of being an agent for change and not being a "party line" guy.

One says he's an agent for change, yet he has no record that points to that and his rise from the state senate in Illinois 4 years ago was created by people like Resko, Jerehmia Wright, Bill Ayers and worse. Guys like Nadhmi Auchi.

Just for an example of his relationship with one of these guys look at his 17 year relationship with Rezko, it is impossible to quantify the amount in contributions funnelled to Obama by Rezko using his ill gotten gains. Nor can it be ascertained at this time if the favors done by Obama for Rezko — large and small — involve him in illegal activities. It certainly has him enmeshed with some extremely shady characters in Rezko and Auchi.

If your tin foil hat theories are true, why didn't they indict Obama when they had the chance? If this smoking gun exists, why didn't HRC and her legion of doom roll it out? If what you're talking about is anything more than a right wing bloggers jack off fantasy, why isn't the Rezko story a bigger deal? Why didn't Fox News or the National Review run with it?

Is Rezko a scumbag? Yeah. Did he raise money for Obama? Yeah. Did Obama do him favors in return? More than likely. Is Obama any better or worse than any other politician? No. You've got what amounts to a mildly entertaining story that could have any number of politicians and sleazy business dealers names inserted into it from any level of government across the country. It's unfortunate, but what you're alleging (this is where you respond and tell me about the secret information you have access to that I wouldn't believe if I saw!) is hardly anything new.

Curly Bill
9/21/2008, 11:06 PM
Is Rezko a scumbag? Yeah. Did he raise money for Obama? Yeah. Did Obama do him favors in return? More than likely. Is Obama any better or worse than any other politician? No. You've got what amounts to a mildly entertaining story that could have any number of politicians and sleazy business dealers names inserted into it from any level of government across the country. It's unfortunate, but what you're alleging (this is where you respond and tell me about the secret information you have access to that I wouldn't believe if I saw!) is hardly anything new.

I thought Brack was a different kind of politician, that he was about change. :confused: You're admitting then that he's just your regular ol' run of the mill crooked politician?

I agree with you on that part by the way, but that would certainly put a kink in some of his rhetoric that he's somehow different.

Collier11
9/21/2008, 11:30 PM
The only change is the ways in which he is crooked

LosAngelesSooner
9/22/2008, 02:16 AM
mccain never said that, a crazy preacher supporting him did. idiot.N00b, you should lay off the personal attacks.

olevetonahill
9/22/2008, 02:21 AM
BUT I THOUGHT WE COULD JUST "NEGOTIATE" WITH IRAN :confused: ;) :P

yup Like this
http://www.conservativepunk.com/media/articles/Light_up_Big.jpg

LosAngelesSooner
9/22/2008, 02:30 AM
And you know this...how?

olevetonahill
9/22/2008, 02:33 AM
STFU. You have know clue what it is that is between him and me. BTW, who he is voting for doesn't affect my feelings towards him one bit. I like Bill and Olevet just fine. I respect their decision cause the respect mine, unlike some folks.

I Like ME cause I get drunk and say **** it . Im votin JSM cause he will pull the trigger . an brack will talk ya to death befor he ever Picks up the gun .
Just sayin
Course Im a Violent Mofo anyway ;)

olevetonahill
9/22/2008, 02:34 AM
And you know this...how?

You Talking to ME ?

olevetonahill
9/22/2008, 02:38 AM
http://futurenewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/presobamajuly20111.png?w=500&h=384
But brack yer Buddy is willing to Negotiate :P

LosAngelesSooner
9/22/2008, 03:03 AM
You Talking to ME ?Yes.


http://futurenewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/presobamajuly20111.png?w=500&h=384
But brack yer Buddy is willing to Negotiate :P
Barak is not my guy, though.

But, for the sake of fairness I ask again...how do you know this would be the result since it's never been tried?

olevetonahill
9/22/2008, 04:57 AM
Ya nevar heard of DET cord Huh ?
Dont they sell that at Gun shows out there ?