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OklahomaTuba
9/12/2008, 11:06 PM
The implosion of The One continues.




Yep. The day after 9/11, as part of its "get tough" makeover, the Obama campaign is mocking John McCain for not using a computer, without caring why he doesn't use a computer. From the AP story (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Sep/12/obama_mocks_mccain_as_computer_illiterate.html) about the computer illiterate ad:
"Our economy wouldn't survive without the Internet, and cyber-security continues to represent one our most serious national security threats," [Obama spokesman Dan] Pfeiffer said. "It's extraordinary that someone who wants to be our president and our commander in chief doesn't know how to send an e-mail."
Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "extraordinary." The reason he doesn't send email is that he can't use a keyboard because of the relentless beatings he received from the Viet Cong in service to our country. From the Boston Globe (http://graphics.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/McCain_character_loyal_to_a_fault+.shtml) (March 4, 2000):

McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain's encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He's an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can't raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.
In a similar vein I guess it's an outrage that the blind governor of New York David Patterson doesn't know how to drive a car. After all, transportation issues are pretty important. How dare he serve as governor while being ignorant of what it's like to navigate New York's highways.


http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=

Vaevictis
9/12/2008, 11:10 PM
I bet Stephen Hawking knows how to send an email.

OklahomaTuba
9/12/2008, 11:12 PM
I doubt the Viet Cong broke Stephens hands several times.

tommieharris91
9/12/2008, 11:13 PM
http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/images/smilies/banned.gif

King Crimson
9/12/2008, 11:13 PM
i have a good friend who is a quadriplegic from a car accident. since he was injured he has got a PhD and a JD.

his injuries are far worse than McCain's.

no offense, but he can send an email.

Mjcpr
9/12/2008, 11:16 PM
Where did anybody make fun of anything?

OklahomaTuba
9/12/2008, 11:16 PM
I guess Mr. Change won't be running personal attack ads on any quadriplegics then?

iwannabelikesam
9/12/2008, 11:18 PM
i have a good friend who is a quadriplegic from a car accident. since he was injured he has got a PhD and a JD.

his injuries are far worse than McCain's.

no offense, but he can send an email.

John McCain sends plenty of e-mail. He just can't do it himself. What the Obama ad said was true but not true, because McCain can't do it himself.

King Crimson
9/12/2008, 11:19 PM
I guess Mr. Change won't be running personal attack ads on any quadriplegics then?

that's not true. he will run them. but he'll only attack God fearing, America loving quads who were injured in the line of duty. because those are the only quads that count.

royalfan5
9/12/2008, 11:19 PM
Everyday I become more convinced we should just let Cheney run things for a year and have a do over on the whole election thing.

BU BEAR
9/12/2008, 11:20 PM
I bet McCain does not want to take the time to learn how to use his eyebrows to send an email.

Good grief.

Vaevictis
9/12/2008, 11:23 PM
I doubt the Viet Cong broke Stephens hands several times.

Have you ever heard someone say something so incredibly stupid that no response can possibly do it justice?

Yeah, your comment is one of those.

King Crimson
9/12/2008, 11:26 PM
John McCain sends plenty of e-mail. He just can't do it himself. What the Obama ad said was true but not true, because McCain can't do it himself.

i find that impossible to believe.

If John McCain can **** his wife, he can send email.

you have any idea what the life of a quadriplegic is like?

my friend typed a dissertation with a stick and send emails with it...there is no way john mccain can't send an email.

Mjcpr
9/12/2008, 11:29 PM
If John McCain can **** his wife, he can send email.

He would probably have to have a teeny peener.

Mjcpr
9/12/2008, 11:30 PM
my friend typed a dissertation with a stick and send emails with it...

Does that work as well as sticking them in a bottle?

King Crimson
9/12/2008, 11:33 PM
Does that work as well as sticking them in a bottle?

what is that supposed to mean? you make fun of people injured in car accidents? it could be you just as easy as him....

wtf?

iwannabelikesam
9/12/2008, 11:34 PM
i find that impossible to believe.

If John McCain can **** his wife, he can send email.

you have any idea what the life of a quadriplegic is like?

my friend typed a dissertation with a stick and send emails with it...there is no way john mccain can't send an email.

He never had his **** (Cheney) broke.

But yes, he could type an e-mail as quadriplegics do, but McCain is rich and powerful, so he has people do it for him, which is much easier for him.

As for you finding it impossible, have you never seen him move his arms?

Mjcpr
9/12/2008, 11:35 PM
Similar to the Obama article, I was making fun of nobody.

Nevermind.

Vaevictis
9/12/2008, 11:36 PM
As for you finding it impossible, have you never seen him move his arms?

Dude can sign his name. There's no way it's impossible. Maybe not worth the trouble -- but not impossible.

King Crimson
9/12/2008, 11:41 PM
Does that work as well as sticking them in a bottle?

whatever. stick quads in a bottle.

BU BEAR
9/12/2008, 11:42 PM
Obama just pulled a Biden. It is easier if he just admits and moves on rather than trying to make an excuse.

Mjcpr
9/12/2008, 11:44 PM
sticking them in a bottle to be discovered is a low chance of success, which you compare to life as a quad.

I compared sending an email with a stick to sending a message in a bottle, I never said anything about a quad.

Like I said, nevermind. You're about as much fun as a drowning, I should've known better.

Mjcpr
9/12/2008, 11:45 PM
whatever. stick quads in a bottle.

I don't even know what this means. Are you typing with a stick?

SoonerProphet
9/12/2008, 11:46 PM
i've had students with cp who can utilize a computer, hell they have models with big keys. i don't get the fake outrage, again.

Soonrboy
9/12/2008, 11:51 PM
Knowing how and being able to are two different things.

King Crimson
9/12/2008, 11:57 PM
I compared sending an email with a stick to sending a message in a bottle, I never said anything about a quad.

Like I said, nevermind. You're about as much fun as a drowning, I should've known better.

well, when a quad is the one sending an email....with a stick...are you missing that altogether?

what exactly, then, is your message in a bottle comparison? that has nothing to do with early Police records?

just for fun?

47straight
9/12/2008, 11:58 PM
i've had students with cp who can utilize a computer, hell they have models with big keys. i don't get the fake outrage, again.

I know. Faking outrage that McCain doesn't use e-mail in light of all these facts is just silly.

King Crimson
9/13/2008, 12:00 AM
I don't even know what this means. Are you typing with a stick?

really cute conversion of what you perceive to be mental disability to a physical one.

great.

TheHumanAlphabet
9/13/2008, 12:00 AM
The implosion of The One continues.



http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=

Dang Tuba, thats some funny comment on the NY Gov. Though true. Hope this crap comes back to bite oblahma in the arse...

SoonerProphet
9/13/2008, 12:03 AM
I know. Faking outrage that McCain doesn't use e-mail in light of all these facts is just silly.


what "facts" are you talking about?

King Crimson
9/13/2008, 12:06 AM
I compared sending an email with a stick to sending a message in a bottle, I never said anything about a quad.


reality is you can get advanced degrees typing with a stick. and send emails, and get jobs doing it. despite your "who me?" attitude, i don't see how you separate "quads" and "typing with sticks" since i introduced both categories in the thread.

?

if you think John McCain has enough of a disability to not send emails.....that's absurd.

SoonerProphet
9/13/2008, 12:08 AM
Dang Tuba, thats some funny comment on the NY Gov. Though true. Hope this crap comes back to bite oblahma in the arse...


yeah, cause 21st century technology is synonymous with being blind and driving. do you people really get pissed over sh!t like this?

Rogue
9/13/2008, 12:09 AM
I think it's a backhanded attack on JM's age more than any disability.
I'm not for age-ism. Reagan did appear to be slipping his last few years.
Just sayin'.

SCOUT
9/13/2008, 12:19 AM
I once worked for a fortune 500 bank whose SEVP for IT did not own a computer or even have one in his office. After that bank was bought out, he consulted to Citibank and BOA on their IT infrastructure.

Sending emails is not a task I want our President doing anyway. Perhaps the President could find an intern... uh assistant to type those little details up.

Oh and Reagan at 80% is twice either of the Presidential candidates IMO.

47straight
9/13/2008, 12:21 AM
what "facts" are you talking about?

That he has difficulty using a keyboard. Or is the Boston Globe (in 2000) part of vast, right-wing conspiracy?

King Crimson
9/13/2008, 12:25 AM
I think it's a backhanded attack on JM's age more than any disability.
I'm not for age-ism. Reagan did appear to be slipping his last few years.
Just sayin'.

i agree but are there not the thread starter and others saying it's an attack on disability?

47straight
9/13/2008, 12:26 AM
I once worked for a fortune 500 bank whose SEVP for IT did not own a computer or even have one in his office. After that bank was bought out, he consulted to Citibank and BOA on their IT infrastructure.

Sending emails is not a task I want our President doing anyway. Perhaps the President could find an intern... uh assistant to type those little details up.



That reminds me. The founder, president and CEO of the tech company I used to work for also did not use e-mail. He had his secretary screen, relay, and report the important stuff. He grew up without electricity and somehow was able to get a PhD in electrical engineering, start a business in his garage, and build it to a innovative global corporation and still keep his hand guiding the development of technology.

Interesting parallel.

SoonerProphet
9/13/2008, 12:27 AM
That he has difficulty using a keyboard. Or is the Boston Globe (in 2000) part of vast, right-wing conspiracy?

Seriously, how many examples do you need of people who have far superior damage, ranging from neurological disorders to car accidents, for you to grasp the "fact" that none of them inhibit someone from partaking in the joys of the world wide web.

Hell, our own head coach, and a few former nfl stars, have their hands so gnarled it boggles the mind, but alas they can utilize something so small as a cell phone.

Again, how anyone can find some type of jab at his service is beyond comprehension.

SCOUT
9/13/2008, 12:33 AM
Seriously, how many examples do you need of people who have far superior damage, ranging from neurological disorders to car accidents, for you to grasp the "fact" that none of them inhibit someone from partaking in the joys of the world wide web.

Hell, our own head coach, and a few former nfl stars, have their hands so gnarled it boggles the mind, but alas they can utilize something so small as a cell phone.

Again, how anyone can find some type of jab at his service is beyond comprehension.

About as many examples as it takes to prove that this is somehow relevant. If a man, like the one I mentioned earlier, can construct and implement a system that can process between 10 and 50 million international financial transactions PER DAY does it really matter if he doesn't know about Outlook?

My point is that the Presidential day is occupied by many types of decisions and actions and I hope that weeding through mortgage rate and penis enlargement offers are not among them.

Perhaps this is the experience that BHO is pinning his hopes on. It seems the only area where he is more experienced than JSM

SoonerProphet
9/13/2008, 12:38 AM
About as many examples as it takes to prove that this is somehow relevant. If a man, like the one I mentioned earlier, can construct and implement a system that can process between 10 and 50 million international financial transactions PER DAY does it really matter if he doesn't know about Outlook?

My point is that the Presidential day is occupied by many types of decisions and actions and I hope that weeding through mortgage rate and penis enlargement offers are not among them.

Perhaps this is the experience that BHO is pinning his hopes on. It seems the only area where he is more experienced than JSM


That ain't the issue that is at hand here. Yeah, there are lots of folks who do well in all walks of life without the benefits of technology. The point seems to be that Obama was making some kind of vicious attack on McCain cause he can't check out voyeur.com not because he doesn't.

GottaHavePride
9/13/2008, 12:38 AM
Sweet jeebus people.

It wasn't a dig on his physical abilities.

It was a dig on his comprehension of technology.

God damn. Talk about can't see the forest for the trees.

Vaevictis
9/13/2008, 12:38 AM
Again, how anyone can find some type of jab at his service is beyond comprehension.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9420/greatpowerfuloznb9.gif

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE [email protected]#




Seriously. That's how.

SCOUT
9/13/2008, 12:44 AM
nm

olevetonahill
9/13/2008, 01:57 AM
If WE still had spek Some Of Yall would be Red as a russian
Dayum I got My 1st computer in 98 .
I can send email and Post Pics But thats about it .
**** Yall all in this thread that have Mocked JSM
Brack and the rest Of the Libs On here suck Donkey dicks
Just sayin

olevetonahill
9/13/2008, 02:02 AM
Sweet jeebus people.

It wasn't a dig on his physical abilities.

It was a dig on his comprehension of technology.

God damn. Talk about can't see the forest for the trees.

Dayum GHP did you GROW up with a Puter ?
Hell JSM grew UP before TeeVee as I pretty much did
How many remember watchin TeeVee In Black an White ?:rolleyes:
Yup Brack you Got us Old ****ers you can use a Puter Better than us . But I bet.
We ( us Old ****ers ) can FIGHT a war Better than you or any of yer Swallowers :rolleyes:

Vaevictis
9/13/2008, 02:44 AM
**** Yall all in this thread that have Mocked JSM

As far as I can tell, nobody here mocked JSM.

Tuba's faux/silly outrage, sure. McCain, not so much.

Besides, dude's a politician. Politicians deserve to be mocked as a rule.

olevetonahill
9/13/2008, 03:00 AM
As far as I can tell, nobody here mocked JSM.

Tuba's faux/silly outrage, sure. McCain, not so much.

Besides, dude's a politician. Politicians deserve to be mocked as a rule.

You Go Gurl :rolleyes:

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 06:00 AM
Fake outrage over made up insults with no basis in facts is a waste of time.

Tuba...you waste a lot of our time.

swardboy
9/13/2008, 07:22 AM
Like I said, nevermind. You're about as much fun as a drowning, I should've known better.

MJCPR brilliance! I'm considering using it for a sig with your approval.

swardboy
9/13/2008, 07:24 AM
Speaking of handicaps, has Brack given up his faux-presidential seal?

What a presumptious as s.

King Crimson
9/13/2008, 07:25 AM
MJCPR brilliance! I'm considering using it for a sig with your approval.

i know i would consider it an honor.

might ought to take that into account.

GrapevineSooner
9/13/2008, 07:42 AM
To be fair, I've done corporate tech support for many years. Anytime I've taken a call for an issue affecting a really higher up guy in the company (VP, President, etc.) it's always been their admin assistant who has called.

Why?

Because their boss was technologically deficient. Obviously, their talents lie elsewhere as they didn't have these jobs just land in their lap.

I'm sure if it truly was a requirement to be President, McCain could probably send out an email using voice recognition technology, keyboard with big keys, etc. He just never had a need to use one.

Besides, I'd wager that the last several Presidents we've had have been more technologically deficient than some peon help desk tech like me. So as long as they surround themselves with the right people who understand how technology impacts our economy, etc. who cares if the President can't send an email? ;)

King Crimson
9/13/2008, 07:46 AM
we're not talking about building a sea-going canoe out of a tree....we are talking about typing "hey, i like you" on a keyboard and hitting the "send" button.

Mjcpr
9/13/2008, 09:17 AM
MJCPR brilliance! I'm considering using it for a sig with your approval.

Go'on ahead. :D

LesNessman
9/13/2008, 09:32 AM
So an Obama guy says a guy who ran a carrier fighter squadron can't send a email, for whatever reason.

I find that a little hard to believe.

Rogue
9/13/2008, 09:54 AM
Ugh. It's NOT about his disabilities.

It's about his age. And how he's not like most of us in middle America.
Same as the "so and so doesn't know how much a gallon of milk costs." Even if old "so and so" hasn't bought a gallon of milk in 9 years you can be s/he knows what it costs if they're running for any office these days. So they can connect with us common folk.

Brack should put out a blog to point out the difference.

Lots of folks who were older, and more disabled, learned to use a computer and the internet. And, yes, to send an email. JSM didn't have to. He married rich and didn't have a job where he had to learn it.

The point may have some traction. I assume it does since the only comebacks to it are these lame ones:
1) Don't attack his disability
-JSM is a real American hero. We get it. Quit playing the card at every turn, please.

2) JSM doesn't NEED to know how to send an email to do his job.
-True, but it's not the point. The point is that he's a rich eccentric who's very different than most Americans these days.

Look, the guy is a 20th (middle of the century) century man. Anyone in this day and age who doesn't use a computer, by choice, and hasn't bothered to learn how to do what my little old 90 year old cousin and my little young 6 year old cousin can do is "different." And this is true, unlike the whisper campaign about Brack being a terr'ist or a Muslim Guru, or a space alien or something.

Frankly, I'm disappointed McCain hasn't countered that. The whisper campaign in SoCarolina 8 years ago didn't go so well for him. Guess he learned from that and is using it now.

Politics is dirty. Like porn though, it's fun to watch.

stoopified
9/13/2008, 10:13 AM
The implosion of The One continues.



http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=
I agree with your post BUT in the intrest of accurracy McCain suffered no beatings at the hands of the Viet Cong.He was imprisoned,tortured, and beaten beyond human endurance by the NVA(North Vietnamese Army) after he was shot down.

Hamhock
9/13/2008, 10:20 AM
what is that supposed to mean? you make fun of people injured in car accidents? it could be you just as easy as him....

wtf?

for the record, he'll make fun of absolutely any person in any situation, as will most people on this board. are you new here?

Okla-homey
9/13/2008, 10:28 AM
Sheesh. If someone who endured what JSM endured for all of us asked me if I thought he was a doofus because he wasn't innerweb savvy, I'd reply in the negative, offer to take dictation and send the dang things for him.

I bet BHO can't fly an attack jet, let alone land on a blacked out carrier at night. Does that make him an moron? No.

Does the fact BHO has never authored a bill in his flippin life despite a "career" in the Illinois legislature and US Senate make him a moron? probably. Either that or a rank opportunist and flake who refuses to make a record in order to avoid being pinned to a particular position. Empty suit. Big Rock Candy Mountain.

SoonerBorn68
9/13/2008, 10:48 AM
Have you ever heard someone say something so incredibly stupid that no response can possibly do it justice?

Yeah, your comment is one of those.

Every post you make comes to mind.

TheHumanAlphabet
9/13/2008, 11:06 AM
My father can't send an email. He's 83. So 1. people near that age or generation don't necessarily embrace technology, personally, I don't think that is necessarily bad. 2. I wouldn't expect someone of his position would send out emails directly. You have someone send it out on your behalf. Then you have not written trail - in today's culture, not a bad thing. 3. I would expect his time is so managed, he wouldn't be sending out emails. Regardless, oblahma is more and more desparate and not getting traction at this time. That could change.

Rogue
9/13/2008, 11:12 AM
How's BO any more desparate than JSM?
Electoral Map today shows McPalin 10 electoral votes more than Obiden with 94 as toss-ups. Looks like a dead heat to me still. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/)

I guess NC is officially red today. Seems like NC and VA were "toss up states" last week. Is this McPalin's momentum?

Okla-homey
9/13/2008, 11:21 AM
How's BO any more desparate than JSM?
Electoral Map today shows McPalin 10 electoral votes more than Obiden with 94 as toss-ups. Looks like a dead heat to me still. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/)

I guess NC is officially red today. Seems like NC and VA were "toss up states" last week. Is this McPalin's momentum?


I think it will come down to Ohio and Pennsy. That's why I wanna see where those states stand on Oct 15.

The southern tier is breaking solidy for JSM/SHP. Its very hard to win unless you can crack a "solid South." WJC was able to do that. A hard lefty can't possibly do so.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Rogue
9/13/2008, 11:43 AM
In retrospect, a Southerner would have been a good VP choice for BO.
As soon as McCain picked Teh Sarah I knew that BO screwed up.

I'll add Michigan to your states to watch. It looks like a split between OH and PA so far. OH moving more pink and PA moving more blue.

jage
9/13/2008, 11:44 AM
Can someone explain how what Obama said translates into making fun of McCain's war wounds???

Seems like a stretch to me:confused:

Personally it worries me that McCain is so out of touch with our current generation that he doesn't know how to even use the internet. How is the second most advanced technological country in the world supposed to keep up if our president doesn't care about advancing technology, or even learning it himself?

BRB, going to "type a google"!
:eek:

KC//CRIMSON
9/13/2008, 12:27 PM
Tuba is living proof the mentally challenged can use the internet.

jkjsooner
9/13/2008, 12:57 PM
Wow, this thread is a stretch to say the least.

lexsooner
9/13/2008, 01:02 PM
Can someone explain how what Obama said translates into making fun of McCain's war wounds???

Seems like a stretch to me:confused:

Personally it worries me that McCain is so out of touch with our current generation that he doesn't know how to even use the internet. How is the second most advanced technological country in the world supposed to keep up if our president doesn't care about advancing technology, or even learning it himself?

BRB, going to "type a google"!
:eek:

It's beyond a stretch - it's pure nonsense. Obama's ad focuses on McCain being out of touch with the times and the common person, which goes with his age and social status. The commercial states "He cannot send an e-mail . . . . He admits he doesn't even know how to use a computer." There is nothing explicitly or implicitly suggesting McCain is physically unable to use a computer. Obama has praised McCain's war record and his patriotism on numerous instances, so this is just an example of a GOP supporter making s--- up. The sad thing is this is the sort of tactic really used in the campaign, like the lipstick on a pig nonsense.

soonerhubs
9/13/2008, 01:31 PM
You know because Obama is so connected with us gun-toting, paranoid, religious right wing nuts, that are apparently crazy for believing higher power is not limited to things that fit within scientific understanding TODAY.

Obama relates to me about as well as a Tree Squirrel relates to a Bullfrog.

Who really cares if McCain can't send an email? Can you picture a senator or congressman being stalled from his legislative duties because he can't figure out a computer? No, not even a little bit. Last time I checked, most staffs include IT. I suggest that include Obama's staff.

Congrats Brack! You made an ad to connect with computer nerds. Attention computer nerds: Don't try to make too much money in the tech business because he'll tax the hell out of your efforts.

It's crazy for anyone to think that raising taxes will be good for our economy. That to me is much more ludicrous and fanatical than the multitude of religious tenets we tend to ridicule.

47straight
9/13/2008, 01:32 PM
Hell, our own head coach, and a few former nfl stars, have their hands so gnarled it boggles the mind, but alas they can utilize something so small as a cell phone.



Sigh.


Our own coach doesn't know how to use email either. He doesn't even have an account. When the coach fran $20k email club thing hit, Stoops said, "If you get an e-mail that says it's from me, it ain't me."

And McCain does know how to use a cell phone. In fact, in the article where he talked about his use of the internet, he said that it didn't use it much because he had a sat phone where he could call his family or staff anywhere in the world.



Obama made a dig at him for his email use. He doesn't use email in part because of injuries. While the GOP may fake outrage, it's thin ice and it's not going to work like you thought it would. Might as well harp some more on Obama's three point shot and say, "HAHAHFHJASLKHADKJLHAAKJDHA OMG MCCAIN OLD MAN COULDN'T DO THAT."

Wait, obama supporters already did that too.

TheHumanAlphabet
9/13/2008, 01:39 PM
How's BO any more desparate than JSM?
Electoral Map today shows McPalin 10 electoral votes more than Obiden with 94 as toss-ups. Looks like a dead heat to me still. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/)

I guess NC is officially red today. Seems like NC and VA were "toss up states" last week. Is this McPalin's momentum?

Wasn't counting the electoral votes, just by the what and the way he is saying things. More and more panicked and desparate sounding...

KC//CRIMSON
9/13/2008, 01:46 PM
he said that it didn't use it much because he had a sat phone where he could call his family or staff anywhere in the world.


Is this phone made of paper cups and string?

soonerhubs
9/13/2008, 01:51 PM
Is this phone made of paper cups and string?

heh!

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 02:33 PM
and[/U] US Senate make him a moron? probably.You know that this isn't a true statement, don't you?

Tulsa_Fireman
9/13/2008, 02:41 PM
For bipartisan curiosity's sake, what bills did BHO author? Could very well say a lot about the man.

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 03:04 PM
For bipartisan curiosity's sake, what bills did BHO author? Could very well say a lot about the man.3 seconds of lazy Google search revealed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_Uni ted_States_Senate

During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
1. Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law,
2. Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law,
3. Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
4. 2007 Government Ethics Bill, became law,
5. Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.

In all, since entering the State/U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.

I just wish you guys would quit parroting talking points and start doing a little research yourselves. It looks stupid and is exactly why the Republican Party has been struggling lately. Our base has gotten lazy and defensive. We don't think for ourselves, we just parrot what they tell us and then get angry at the "Liberal MSM" or those "derned Hollywood LIberals." It has to stop so we can be a strong party again.

Attack the bills that he sponsored. Attack WHAT he's done. But don't say things that aren't true because you think they're true because you got some chain e-mail filled with lies which cite TownHall.org as a source. :rolleyes:

GrapevineSooner
9/13/2008, 03:10 PM
To be fair, Wikipedia isn't exactly the most neutral of sources to cite, either.

Votesmart (http://votesmart.org) is a better resource, IMO.

Okla-homey
9/13/2008, 03:17 PM
3 seconds of lazy Google search revealed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_Uni ted_States_Senate

During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
1. Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law,
2. Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law,
3. Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
4. 2007 Government Ethics Bill, became law,
5. Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.

In all, since entering the State/U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.

I just wish you guys would quit parroting talking points and start doing a little research yourselves. It looks stupid and is exactly why the Republican Party has been struggling lately. Our base has gotten lazy and defensive. We don't think for ourselves, we just parrot what they tell us and then get angry at the "Liberal MSM" or those "derned Hollywood LIberals." It has to stop so we can be a strong party again.

Attack the bills that he sponsored. Attack WHAT he's done. But don't say things that aren't true because you think they're true because you got some chain e-mail filled with lies which cite TownHall.org as a source. :rolleyes:


if you bother to go back and read my original post, you'll see I stated he hadn't authored any bills. Sponsoring is an entirely different bucket of crappie.

Sponsoring simply means allowing your name to be typed on the bill along with twenty or thirty other legislators who didn't have spit to do with writing it. Authoring means you drafted it.

Find me one, from a reliable source like the GPO, BHO authored in the Senate.

here's a linky: http://www.gpo.gov/

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 03:21 PM
http://www.factcheck.org/askarchive/

Here. Take some time and refute talking points and lies from BOTH sides, then, at least, your arguments will be sound.

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 03:22 PM
if you bother to go back and read my original post, you'll see I stated he hadn't authored any bills. Sponsoring is an entirely different bucket of crappie.

Sponsoring simply means allowing your name to be typed on the bill along with twenty or thirty other legislators who didn't have spit to do with writing it. Authoring means you drafted it.

Find me one, from a reliable source like the GPO, BHO authored in the Senate.Re-read the post you just quoted.

He's AUTHORED numerous bills as well as SPONSORED many more, just as I said.

And before you belittle "sponsoring" a bill (just as many have belittled being a "community organizer") realize that almost every name on the bottom of the Declaration of Independence were merely lowly little "sponsors."

Okla-homey
9/13/2008, 03:28 PM
Re-read the post you just quoted.

He's AUTHORED numerous bills as well as SPONSORED many more, just as I said.

And before you belittle "sponsoring" a bill (just as many have belittled being a "community organizer") realize that almost every name on the bottom of the Declaration of Independence were merely lowly little "sponsors."

no, like I said, please cite from a reliable, unimpeachable source. Not some guy's blog.

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 03:59 PM
Which I already did.

And the humor in YOU asking for someone to cite an "unimpeachable source" instead of a Blog is AmAzInG.

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 04:13 PM
Part 1 of 2

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html


Q: Would Obama tax my profits if I sell my home? Would he tax my IRA? Would he tax my water?

I was just sent this and it had 100s of names attached and forwarded over and over – is it real?

Subject: Important read - Taxes


INTERESTING DATA JUST RECEIVED ON TAXES

Spread the word.....

This is something you should be
aware of so you don't get blind-sided.
This is really going to catch a lot
of families off guard. It should
make you worry.

Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000
per home (couples) McCain does not
propose any change in existing
home sales income tax.

OBAMA

28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you?
If you sell your home and make a profit, you
will pay 28% of your gain on taxes.

If you are heading toward retirement
and would like to down-size your
home or move into a retirement
community, 28% of the money you
make from your home will go to taxes. This
proposal will adversely affect the
elderly who are counting on the income
from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you?
If you have any money invested in stock
market, IRA, mutual funds,
college funds, life insurance, retirement
accounts, or anything that pays
or reinvests dividends, you will now
be paying nearly 40% of the money
earned on taxes if Obama become president.

The experts predict that 'higher
tax rates on dividends and capital gains
would crash the stock market yet
do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama your taxes will
more than double!
How does this affect you? No explanation
needed. This is pretty
straight forward.

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
How does this affect you? Many families
have lost businesses,
farms and ranches, and homes
that have
been in their families
for generations because they could not
afford the inheritance tax.
Those willing their assets to loved
ones will not only lose them to
these taxes.

NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA


* New government taxes proposed on
homes that are more than
2400 square feet


* New gasoline taxes (as if
gas weren't high enough already)


* New taxes on natural resources
consumption (heating
gas, water, electricity)


* New taxes on retirement accounts
and last but not least....

* New taxes to pay for socialized medicine
so we can receive the same
level of medical care as other
third-world countries!!!





The above link leads to this (for the lazy peeps).

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 04:14 PM
Part 2 of 2


A: No.

A new e-mail being circulated about Obama's tax proposals is almost entirely false.

Alert readers may already have noted that this chain e-mail does not provide links to any of Obama's actual proposals or cite any sources for the claims it makes. That is because they are made up.This widely distributed message is so full of misinformation that we find it impossible to believe that it is the result of simple ignorance or carelessness on the part of the writer. Almost nothing it says about Obama's tax proposals is true. We conclude that this deception is deliberate.


Wachovia Apologizes

Update, Aug. 27:One version of this e-mail was sent around by a financial professional, Robert Jenkins (http://www.agedwards.com/fc/robert.jenkins), a vice president of Wachovia Securities in St. Louis, Mo. Even though Jenkins is an investment adviser and not a tax expert, we thought his endorsement might seem to some readers to give this false e-mail greater credibility. So we attempted to ask Jenkins about the matter. But instead of a reply from him, we received the following message from another Wachovia official, whose identity we confirmed by telephone:
Thank you for contacting Wachovia regarding a recent email regarding "proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election." Please know that Wachovia does not endorse any political party, candidate, or initiative, and that our Firm did not endorse or approve the email as it is contrary to our Code of Conduct and Corporate Values.
Members of executive and departmental leadership in Wachovia Corporation and Wachovia Securities have been made aware of the email, and Robert Jenkins has been dealt with appropriately and directly. Every effort has been made to ensure that no additional emails or communications of this nature will be issued by any member of our Firm.
We sincerely apologize for this unfortunate incident.
Cynthia Plackemeier
Assistant Branch Manager
We later contacted William Mannen, a Wachovia vice president for branch administration in St. Louis. He declined to say whether or not Jenkins is still employed by Wachovia.



Our own sources for the following are Obama's own Web site (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#tax-relief) and other statements, interviews with Obama's policy advisers, and a comprehensive analysis (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411693) of both the McCain and Obama tax plans produced by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, plus additional sources to which we have provided links.Home Sales: The claim that Obama would impose a 28 percent tax on the profit from "all home sales" is false. Both Obama and McCain would continue to exempt the first $250,000 of gain from the sale of a primary residence ($500,000 for a married couple filing jointly) which results in zero tax on all but a very few home sales.

Capital Gains Rate: It's untrue that Obama is proposing a 28 percent capital gains tax rate. He said in an interview (http://www.cnbc.com/id/23835435/site/14081545/page/2/) on CNBC that he favors raising the top rate on capital gains from its present 15 percent to 20 percent or more, but no higher than 28 percent. And as for a 28 percent rate, he added, "my guess would be it would be significantly lower than that." Furthermore, he has said only couples making $250,000 or more (or, his policy advisers tell us, singles making more than $200,000) would pay the higher capital gains rate. That means the large majority of persons who pay capital gains taxes would see no increase at all.


Tax on Dividends: Another false claim is that Obama proposes to raise the tax rate on dividends to 39.6 percent. Dividends currently are taxed at a top rate of 15 percent, and Obama would raise that to the same rate as he would tax capital gains, somewhere between 20 percent and 28 percent but likely "significantly" lower than 28 percent. This higher tax also would fall only on couples making $250,000 or more or singles making more than $200,000.


Taxing IRAs and 529s: Contrary to the claim in this e-mail, raising tax rates on capital gains or dividends would not result in higher taxes on any investments held in Individual Retirement Accounts or in popular, tax-deferred "college funds" under section 529 of the Internal Revenue Code. The whole point of such tax-deferred plans is that dividends and capital gains are allowed to accumulate and compound tax-free, and neither Obama nor McCain proposes to change that. And as previously mentioned, any capital gains or dividend income from stocks, bonds or mutual funds owned outside of tax-deferred accounts would continue to be taxed at current rates except for couples making over $250,000, or singles making more than $200,000.


Doubled Taxes? The claim that "Under Obama your taxes will more than double!" is also false. The comparative rate tables this e-mail provides for McCain and Obama are entirely wrong, as we explained (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_middle-income_persons_pay_lower_federal_income.html) in an earlier article March 13 about another false e-mail from which these tables are copied. It is supposedly a comparison of tax rates before and after the Bush tax cuts, but it grossly overstates the effect of the Bush cuts. Furthermore, Obama proposes to retain the Bush cuts for every single income level shown in this bogus table.

Estate Tax. The claim that Obama proposes to "restore the inheritance tax" is also false, as are the claims that McCain would impose zero tax and that Bush "repealed" it. McCain and Obama both would retain a reduced version of the estate tax, as it is correctly called, though McCain would reduce it by more.

The tax now falls only on estates valued at more than $2 million (effectively $4 million for couples able to set up the required legal and financial arrangements). It reaches a maximum rate of 45 percent on amounts more than that. It was not repealed, but it is set to expire temporarily in 2010, then return in 2011, when it would apply to estates valued at more than $1 million ($2 million for couples), with the maximum rate rising to 55 percent.

Obama has proposed to apply the tax only to estates valued at more than $3.5 million ($7 million for couples), holding the maximum rate at 45 percent. McCain would apply it to estates worth more than $5 million ($10 million for couples), with a maximum rate of 15 percent.


"New Tax" Falsehoods: The e-mail continues with a string of made-up taxes that it falsely claims Obama has proposed. He has not proposed a tax on new homes with more than 2,400 square feet, or a new gasoline tax or a tax on retirement accounts. The most laughably false claim is that Obama would tax "water."
Two claims in this message, while not completely false, are still grossly misleading.

The claim that Obama would impose "new taxes on natural resources" may refer to his support for a cap-and-trade system (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/#reduce-carbon-emissions) to reduce carbon emissions, which indeed would impose large costs on industries burning coal, gas or oil and, indirectly, on their consumers. But McCain also supports cap-and-trade legislation, and even coauthored an early version of a bill that reached the Senate floor this year. Obama's plan would give the federal government more of the revenue from auctioning pollution permits than McCain's plan. Whether cap-and-trade amounts to a "tax" is a matter of interpretation. The fact is neither McCain nor Obama call it that.

There is also some truth to the claim that Obama would impose "new taxes" to finance his health care plan, depending on your interpretation of "new." He has said (http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf) he would pay for much of his plan "by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for people making more than $250,000 per year, as they are scheduled to do." That would certainly be a tax increase for those high-income persons, compared with what they are paying now. But whether that's imposing a new tax, or just letting an old one come back, depends on your point of view. It may well be that Obama will eventually propose tax increases to finance some of his plan. We've noted (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_inflated_health_savings.html) before that the "cost savings" that he says will finance much of his plan are inflated and probably won't materialize, according to independent experts we consulted. But it's wrong to say that he's proposing such taxes now.

The short answer to our reader's question is, no, this message isn't real. It's a pack of lies.

-Brooks Jackson

Sources
“Background Questions and Answers on Health Care Plan (http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf).” Barack Obama’s Web site, accessed 10 July 2008.
(http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf)
“ (http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf)Energy and Environment (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/#reduce-carbon-emissions). “Barack Obama’s Web site, accessed 10 July 2008.

News Release: “CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo Speaks with Senator Barack Obama on CNBC’s “Closing Bell (http://www.cnbc.com/id/23835435/site/14081545/page/2/).” 27 March 2008. CNBC Web site.

“Plan to Strengthen the Economy (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#tax-relief).” Barack Obama’s Web site, accessed 10 July 2008.

Tax Policy Center: Urban Institute and Brookings Institution. “A Preliminary Analysis of the 2008 Presidential Candidates’ Tax Plans (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_CandidateTaxPlans.pdf),” 20 June 2008.http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html

JohnnyMack
9/13/2008, 05:02 PM
I think it will come down to Ohio and Pennsy. That's why I wanna see where those states stand on Oct 15.

The southern tier is breaking solidy for JSM/SHP. Its very hard to win unless you can crack a "solid South." WJC was able to do that. A hard lefty can't possibly do so.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

I'm floored that the bible belt is getting behind the celebrity moonbat that McCain picked and in doing so trashed his own convictions in order to try and win. He'd rather lose his integrity, than lose an election.

LosAngelesSooner
9/13/2008, 05:21 PM
That's one of the many reasons Palin upsets me so much.

KC//CRIMSON
9/14/2008, 06:32 PM
http://media.buffalonews.com/smedia/2008/09/11/16/38-0914adamz.standalone.prod_affiliate.50.jpg

C&CDean
9/15/2008, 10:00 AM
Alls I know is that I ain't voting for darky.

Pricetag
9/15/2008, 10:20 AM
The commercial in question here was just as dumb as the Palin = Pig angle from McCain. Both guys lost respect from me.

GrapevineSooner
9/15/2008, 11:09 AM
Yep.

It would be nice if we really could get back to the issues. Obama didn't call Palin a pig, Palin doesn't really believe the world is only 4,000 years old, nor does she want to burn banned books, Biden made an honest mistake when he asked a person in a wheelchair to stand up, and John McCain can send simple emails but it gets too uncomfortable when he has to type for very long.

It's amazing how elections and politics in general can make normally sensible people turn into naive idiots that will believe anything fed to them that fits their view.

JohnnyMack
9/15/2008, 11:35 AM
Alls I know is that I ain't voting for darky.

You're all class.

Okla-homey
9/15/2008, 12:20 PM
Alls I know is that I ain't voting for darky.

:les: HIS MOM IS A WHITE LADY FROM KANSAS!

picasso
9/15/2008, 12:24 PM
I'm floored that the bible belt is getting behind the celebrity moonbat that McCain picked and in doing so trashed his own convictions in order to try and win. He'd rather lose his integrity, than lose an election.

I'm also floored that the crazy old bible belt ain't behind Obama! after all, he's a member of a VERY extreme Christian church.

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 12:30 PM
I'm floored that the bible belt is getting behind the celebrity moonbat that McCain picked and in doing so trashed his own convictions in order to try and win. He'd rather lose his integrity, than lose an election.

I'm floored the US is on the verge of electing the anti christ to the Presidentcy.

Give it up Johnny, I'm embarrassed for you.

soonerscuba
9/15/2008, 12:32 PM
I'm floored the US is on the verge of electing the anti christ to the Presidentcy.

Give it up Johnny, I'm embarrassed for you.
Heh, I though Bill Clinton was the anti-Christ, or was it JFK? No, no, I think it was Nelson Mandela. Is there more than one anti-Christ or are people just really bad at guessing?

GrapevineSooner
9/15/2008, 12:34 PM
No, Hillary is.

Or Howard Dean is.

Or that adulterer John Edwards is. ;)

picasso
9/15/2008, 12:36 PM
I always thought it was Scott Baio.

JohnnyMack
9/15/2008, 12:36 PM
I'm floored the US is on the verge of electing the anti christ to the Presidentcy.

Give it up Johnny, I'm embarrassed for you.

I'm floored you believe in the notion of an anti-christ.

picasso
9/15/2008, 12:38 PM
I'm floored you believe in the notion of an anti-christ.

I'll bet BO does.

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 12:40 PM
Nah, Hillary's a bitch

Howard Dean is nuts

Edwards, JFK, and Clinton are adulterers

Nelson Mandela ruined South Africa

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 12:41 PM
I'll bet BO does.

He can't, he's Muslim.

picasso
9/15/2008, 12:41 PM
your momma does.

TexasLidig8r
9/15/2008, 12:42 PM
Heh, I though Bill Clinton was the anti-Christ, or was it JFK? No, no, I think it was Nelson Mandela. Is there more than one anti-Christ or are people just really bad at guessing?

At least JFK had the good sense to have sex with Marilyn Monroe.. well done sir..

William J. Clinton was bagging women that I would tell my son to steer clear from.

I guess that makes Clinton the anti-Christ since he didn't have the good sense to shag up.

picasso
9/15/2008, 12:42 PM
You're all class.

you are too. especially how you dog some folks on here about religion.

JohnnyMack
9/15/2008, 12:44 PM
I'll bet BO does.

I'll bet BO does because he wants to get elected.

OklahomaTuba
9/15/2008, 12:44 PM
John McCain can't use a cigar like Clinton can.

The Viet Cong made damn sure of that!

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 12:47 PM
you are too. especially how you dog some folks on here about religion.

Spot on. I would spek you in private but since I can't, I'll just add it's all fine and dandy for people like Johnny to make fun of people with faith but go out of their minds when their demigod is shat upon.

Again, I don't believe Obama is the anti christ, but he still scares the hell out of me just the same.

I will strive in the future to become the Anti-Johnny.

soonerscuba
9/15/2008, 12:53 PM
Nelson Mandela ruined South Africa
Would you mind elaborating on this one?

JohnnyMack
9/15/2008, 12:57 PM
you are too. especially how you dog some folks on here about religion.

You've got the Republican mock-indignation down pat. Good jorb.

Ike
9/15/2008, 01:07 PM
I'm floored the US is on the verge of electing the anti christ to the Presidentcy.

Give it up Johnny, I'm embarrassed for you.

I'd thought that a lot of the religious nutjobs would actually want this to happen. Aren't there a lot of them out there telling us that the end times are nigh. Wouldn't the A-C getting elected kinda prove their point, and let them know that the rapture was coming soon? I figure they'd be secretly hoping that happens.


But then again, I know as much about the religious zealots as I know about Japanese Goblin Sharks.

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 01:21 PM
Would you mind elaborating on this one?

After Mandela was elected political corruption sky rocketed in South Africa. He had an axe to grind with those who put him in prison & he ground it pretty sharp. Easy enough.

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 01:23 PM
Ike, I'm all for going to heaven, but not before the last possible second. :D

KC//CRIMSON
9/15/2008, 01:24 PM
John McCain can't use a cigar like Clinton can.


How dare you make fun of John McCain's war wounds!

Ike
9/15/2008, 01:27 PM
Ike, I'm all for going to heaven, but not before the last possible second. :D

I was just jokin around too...don't take it personal or nuthin...


Your post just reminded me of an article I read several years ago. Apparently one of the signs of the end times is some kind of specially marked cow (seems kinda wierd to me given the number of cows in the world). Anyway, the article was about some farmer/rancher who was tryin like mad to breed a cow to match the markings that would apparently signify that the end times had begun. I always thought that that was both fascinating and creepy.

SoonerBorn68
9/15/2008, 01:29 PM
No offense taken...and that is creepy. I'd want to turn that cow into burgers as fast as possible.

LosAngelesSooner
9/16/2008, 03:02 AM
Yep.

It would be nice if we really could get back to the issues. Obama didn't call Palin a pig, Palin doesn't really believe the world is only 4,000 years old, nor does she want to burn banned books, Biden made an honest mistake when he asked a person in a wheelchair to stand up, and John McCain can send simple emails but it gets too uncomfortable when he has to type for very long.

It's amazing how elections and politics in general can make normally sensible people turn into naive idiots that will believe anything fed to them that fits their view.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.


You're all class.How can you tell? That white hood is hard to see through.

By the way...
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/09/16/palin.investigation/art.palin.mn.afp.gi.jpg

NOT...HAWT


I'm floored the US is on the verge of electing the anti christ to the Presidentcy.

Give it up Johnny, I'm embarrassed for you.Uhm...you SHOULD be embarrassed for YOU.

LosAngelesSooner
9/16/2008, 03:04 AM
John McCain can't use a cigar like Clinton can.

The Viet Cong made damn sure of that!Jeez...you're starting to use "Viet Cong" like Rudy uses 9/11.

He's got more (and better) qualifications for being President than surviving the Viet Cong.

Harry Beanbag
9/16/2008, 06:53 AM
Actually, it was probably the NVA that operated that prison camp.

badger
9/16/2008, 10:39 AM
Everybody click this right now (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1592171482172108406&ei=GtHPSLn3L4_8-gHFhOi-Ag&q=tina+fey+sarah+palin) before it gets taken down.