Is this Stoops best OU team?

[TJKDone]

I've heard some suggestion to this fact from non-sooners, which makes it at least worth discussing.

Do you think this team has the Roy Williams/Marc Clayton/Tommie Harris potential of yester year?

Why or why not?

Hook'em

[Joe]

Nope, 2003 was talent-wise.

[JLEW1818]

2003-2004 most talent ever at OU.

[Big Red Ron]

If our corners and linbackers are as talented as they are supposed to be (on paper) then this team could be the most talented. We have the best o-line and D-line we've ever had and maybe the best QB in the Stoops era.

It's certainly possible.

[KC//CRIMSON]

no.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

notta

[stoopified]

Ask me again after we win the Big 12 title and the NC.Until then 2000 with its 13-0 record and National title including wins over UT,aTm,KSU(twice),FSU.

[Rogue]

Meh. These lines get lots of credit. When you watch Phil a bunch though you realize he jumped offsides like a bazillion times last year.

But, yeah these lines are great and the offensive backfield is really solid.

The DBs are still a bit unproven so I'll wait.

03-04 was an amazing team top to bottom. Rich in talent.

[swardboy]

Meh. These lines get lots of credit. When you watch Phil a bunch though you realize he jumped offsides like a bazillion times last year.

Which leads me to believe "smarter" is more important than "most talented."

[goingoneight]

I have to say no.

2000 was the best "team" effort I've seen probably in the last 10 years.


2000 had the hearts and the smarts, maybe not the most "talented."
2003 was great on defense, and had an outstanding pass-oriented offense, obviously... but not so much on the ground.
2004 was a sever drop-off defensively from 2003, but when you look at what AD brought to the Sooners in 2004, you have to think this team ended up just a little bit better than the previous year being that they were still decent on D and outstanding all-around on offense.

2007 just didn't catch the breaks you need to win an MNC. If everyone stayed healthy and out of trouble (at times), we were the class of the country... but such tis life. I find it extremely difficult to say which OU team between OU 2004 and OU 2007 was the most "talented."


As for 2008, we still know nothing other than a few nice players are back and they can whoop up on the likes of 2-10, D-1AA Chatanooga.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Best team = talent? probably not

Best team = championships? only time will tell

[OU_Sooners75]

Ask me again after we win the Big 12 title and the NC.Until then 2000 with its 13-0 record and National title including wins over UT,aTm,KSU(twice),FSU.

So beating #1 Nebraska was not worthy of mention?

[trey]

2000 accomplished the most

2003 was the best college team i've ever seen for 12 weeks. they destroyed everyone and won more postseason awards than i can begin to remember

[King Crimson]

no.

[Curly Bill]

At halftime of the Cinci game the answer is no.

[Charla]

Barry's Boyz would of beat their AZZ !!!!!!!!!!

[HopeSpringsEternal]

The defense is once again woeful. Big surprise. A resounding NO.

[birddog]

The defense is once again woeful. Big surprise. A resounding NO.

seems like we say this every year and then the defense begins to put it all together until they fold for a game late in the season.

[SoonerEmpire]

This 2008 squad shouldn't even be considered to be the best Stoops-led OU team until they win a national championship. They have loads of talent, but until they win it all, it doesn't really matter.

[primetime43]

This team does have a better running game than the '03 team, but thats about it. How did that '03 team get beat twice??!

[the_ouskull]

This might be Stoops' most talented team in terms of how many players on the active roster may someday play in the NFL, but they're not the most talented group of players he's ever had. 2000. All the way. I'd say 2003, but when they got hit in the mouth, they laid down. Winners don't do that. That 2000 team didn't lay down for anybody. H*ll. After winning the trophy, I'm sure that Torrance Marshall went right back into the weight room, mad, and looking for somebody to hit. FSU, and Weinke in particular, was AFRAID of him. (Then again, so was I, and I'm an OU fan...)

We don't have players like that on this team, IMhumbleO. We have some very talented players... all over the field at that... But we don't have that one guy that other teams fear; that one defensive player that makes offenses run the other way. I know that Cincy is more talented than people think, and I know that they're even more talented than THAT at their skill positions, but they were KILLING us in the open field today, and, if that doesn't stop, EVERY bowl we play is going to look like our last few.

Bradford - Great QB, already, but he's still rattle-able. After that second INT, he started floating passes because he was worried about linebackers in zone coverage. How many sailed over receivers because of that?

Murray and our OL - Murray could be "that guy," but he's running behind what I consider to be a fairly suspect line. Sure they're big, and sure they're going to test really well and be NFL draft picks... but they're not angry. They don't finish blocks and dominate weaker opponents, and even equal opponents, with enough regularity. Why is Loadholt holding someone? Ever?

Gresham - He's amazing. I'd like to see his hands continue to improve though... and he can always be a better blocker.

Broyles - Really? This kid can steal my gas any day.

Our Defensive Line - They are the strength of this team. Lots of talented, interchangeable parts, but nobody that's wholly dominant on their own. McCoy is close. Granger is close. English is close. Beal is close. Nobody is there.

Our LB's - Talented, but young. They're going to give OU fans that know the game fits all year long, I'm afraid.

Our DB's - Until they learn to play the run AND the pass, we're in trouble. It seems that everybody that we have can only do one or the other. Holmes basically gave up their second touchdown by letting a guy get behind him... IN THE END ZONE! He wasn't run support on that play. Dub Tee Eff? Harris needs to stop looking, and testing like the next great OU safety, and start playing like the next great OU safety. He is highly talented, and he's a great, great player; a smart player... but he's got to be that player every down of every game.

I love football season.

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

This team does have a better running game than the '03 team, but thats about it. How did that '03 team get beat twice??!

It had a glass jaw. Oh, and it lost Mike Stoops.

the_ouskull

[Soonerfan85]

Nope.

[r5TPsooner]

I've heard some suggestion to this fact from non-sooners, which makes it at least worth discussing.

Do you think this team has the Roy Williams/Marc Clayton/Tommie Harris potential of yester year?

Why or why not?

Hook'em


Not even close.

[Soonermagik]

Nope!!

The 2003 team was the most talented, but had sucky Chuck Long holding them back. Yes, I despise that man!!

[GottaHavePride]

This might be Stoops' most talented team in terms of how many players on the active roster may someday play in the NFL, but they're not the most talented group of players he's ever had. 2000. All the way. I'd say 2003, but when they got hit in the mouth, they laid down. Winners don't do that. That 2000 team didn't lay down for anybody. H*ll. After winning the trophy, I'm sure that Torrance Marshall went right back into the weight room, mad, and looking for somebody to hit. FSU, and Weinke in particular, was AFRAID of him. (Then again, so was I, and I'm an OU fan...)

I remember the 01 game in Lubbock. We kicked off to Tech, and their guy fielded the ball. Rocky Calmus ran up and stopped 8 yards away from the guy. Dead stopped. The guy danced left and right like he couldn't decide which way to go and was trying to fake Rocky into biting one direction or another. Rocky didn't move.

The other guy just fell over with the ball rather than attempt to get past Rocky Calmus. He tackled himself so maybe it wouldn't hurt so much. :D


This team doesn't have that.

[tigepilot]

Every once and a while I'll run across an old 2000 OU game on ESPN classic... their intensity amazes me. I haven't seen that on an OU team in years. There's no passion anymore. Talent doesn't matter if you don't use it. I've seen that same lacidasical (spelling?) attitude already on this years team, particularly on defence.

Also, I told another fan that didn't see the game last week that OU's kicking coverage was awful. After today, I think it's even worse. Thought before the season that this may be be THE year but I've lost faith. That being said, I was at the Kansas game in 2000 and left with the same fealing. The team I saw a week later was VERY different.

[TMcGee86]

Not even close.

The LB's and CB's are not even in the same league as the early 00's.

[Piware]

I hate to say no but - no. Aside from winning the NC in 2000, there was something magical about that team. I still call Heupel "little Josh" and will never forget sitting in the stands in the last minute against Nebraska, gritting my teeth on the last defensive stand in the Orange Bowl and Torrance Marshall calling Weinke out during the coin toss. That team had what we old farts called Sooner Magic and we had been waiting a long time to see it come back.

It will come again. I hope it is this year but there is a lot of football to be played.

[Mandibleclaw]

Offensively maybe, time will tell.

[Leroy Lizard]

I would like for them to beat a solid opponent before even asking the question. Otherwise, we are begging for the weauxf gods to strike us down, just like they do every year when we start predicting greatness.

[Big Red Ron]

Funny you should ask, Barry Tramel agrees with those of us tha think this team could be very special, maybe Stoops' best.

http://newsok.com/tramel-hot-sooners-look-a-lot-like-2003/article/3294204/?tm=1220763475

[Big Red Ron]

This might be Stoops' most talented team in terms of how many players on the active roster may someday play in the NFL, but they're not the most talented group of players he's ever had. 2000. All the way. I'd say 2003, but when they got hit in the mouth, they laid down. Winners don't do that. That 2000 team didn't lay down for anybody. H*ll. After winning the trophy, I'm sure that Torrance Marshall went right back into the weight room, mad, and looking for somebody to hit. FSU, and Weinke in particular, was AFRAID of him. (Then again, so was I, and I'm an OU fan...)

We don't have players like that on this team, IMhumbleO. We have some very talented players... all over the field at that... But we don't have that one guy that other teams fear; that one defensive player that makes offenses run the other way. I know that Cincy is more talented than people think, and I know that they're even more talented than THAT at their skill positions, but they were KILLING us in the open field today, and, if that doesn't stop, EVERY bowl we play is going to look like our last few.

Bradford - Great QB, already, but he's still rattle-able. After that second INT, he started floating passes because he was worried about linebackers in zone coverage. How many sailed over receivers because of that?

Murray and our OL - Murray could be "that guy," but he's running behind what I consider to be a fairly suspect line. Sure they're big, and sure they're going to test really well and be NFL draft picks... but they're not angry. They don't finish blocks and dominate weaker opponents, and even equal opponents, with enough regularity. Why is Loadholt holding someone? Ever?

Gresham - He's amazing. I'd like to see his hands continue to improve though... and he can always be a better blocker.

Broyles - Really? This kid can steal my gas any day.

Our Defensive Line - They are the strength of this team. Lots of talented, interchangeable parts, but nobody that's wholly dominant on their own. McCoy is close. Granger is close. English is close. Beal is close. Nobody is there.

Our LB's - Talented, but young. They're going to give OU fans that know the game fits all year long, I'm afraid.

Our DB's - Until they learn to play the run AND the pass, we're in trouble. It seems that everybody that we have can only do one or the other. Holmes basically gave up their second touchdown by letting a guy get behind him... IN THE END ZONE! He wasn't run support on that play. Dub Tee Eff? Harris needs to stop looking, and testing like the next great OU safety, and start playing like the next great OU safety. He is highly talented, and he's a great, great player; a smart player... but he's got to be that player every down of every game.

I love football season.

the_ouskull
Great points and post.

[OUstud]

How about, let's win on the road next week then we'll talk.

[Big Red Ron]

How about, let's win on the road next week then we'll talk.
Fair enough but it's not like we're speaking in a vacuum here. I don't think we'll know a bunch more about this team after beating a PAC 10 bottom dweller on the road than beating up a 10 win, experienced Cincinnati team at home.

[King Crimson]

we looked pretty unbeatable last year until we laid an egg in Boulder.

[CK Sooner]

Fair enough but it's not like we're speaking in a vacuum here. I don't think we'll know a bunch more about this team after beating a PAC 10 bottom dweller on the road than beating up a 10 win, experienced Cincinnati team at home.

I agree.

We should win this game easily as long as we dont pull a Colorado.

[CK Sooner]

we looked pretty unbeatable last year until we laid an egg in Boulder.

Beat me to it :D

[StoopTroup]

Murray and our OL - Murray could be "that guy," but he's running behind what I consider to be a fairly suspect line. Sure they're big, and sure they're going to test really well and be NFL draft picks... but they're not angry. They don't finish blocks and dominate weaker opponents, and even equal opponents, with enough regularity. Why is Loadholt holding someone? Ever?



the_ouskull

I had this discussion in the stands.

I saw some of the O-line guys coasting instead of hammering their opponent every down.

One of the guys I sit next with was saying that we just aren't going to see this "Defense wins Games" like we used to see. He believes we need the Offense to take control and out score the opponent to take the heat off our Defense so we can shut a Team like Tejas Tech down when they come at us with a passing offense that puts up huge numbers.

The North Big XII Teams like KU, Mizzou and Nebraska have all gone to posting huge numbers to win.

I think it's good to see us have huge numbers on Offense and the Cinncinati Game was a sign of good times to come. I just hope the O-Line doesn't get caught with their pants down later...coasting. I can't stand to watch it when I see it...so I'm calling it.

Good post.

[BoulderSooner79]

The defense is once again woeful. Big surprise. A resounding NO.

*Woeful* ? They may well be the best in the conference. Is anything short of the best in the country woeful to you ?

On topic, the 03-04 team was the best talent-wise and execution-wise of the Stoops era right up until the CCG. The only weakness was at RB where they compensated with the short passing game. Just too bad the season ended the way it did.

[soonergregmsw9802]

Great point about the O-Line from skull and others. I think that the 2nd half of the game are evidence that when the O-Line does decide to be intense, fire off the ball, and crush people they are capable, but they were loafing at times.

One thing that I did see with this offense yesterday is that they are capable of running and throwing, which is an improvement from that 2003 team, that at many times had difficulty running.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

*Woeful* ? They may well be the best in the conference. Is anything short of the best in the country woeful to you ?

On topic, the 03-04 team was the best talent-wise and execution-wise of the Stoops era right up until the CCG. The only weakness was at RB where they compensated with the short passing game. Just too bad the season ended the way it did.

They're the best in the conference simply because you've no idea what you're looking at. They'll be lucky to finish with less than two losses.

[BoulderSooner79]

They're the best in the conference simply because you've no idea what you're looking at. They'll be lucky to finish with less than two losses.

Not much hope springs eternally from you I see. Maybe I don't know what I'm looking at or maybe I just disagree with you. I specifically mean that OU may end up with the best defense in the conference when we look back on this season. No, we're not 2-deep with pro-level players at all the LB positions like USC and I don't think we'll be considered dominant on D. But I don't see how you can call that woeful. The pokes D was ranked something like 110th against the rush last year - that's what I call woeful.

[Sabanball]

Hard to tell at this moment in time--they may prove to be. As an outsider looking in, I would say that your '04 team was the best that Stoops has fielded so far.

[jkjsooner]

Hard to tell at this moment in time--they may prove to be. As an outsider looking in, I would say that your '04 team was the best that Stoops has fielded so far.

I think 2004 should have been the best Stoops team. You take the great 2003 offense whose only weakness was rushing the ball and add Peterson and that offense should have been unstoppable.

Unfortunately, I don't think in 2004 they ever really figured out their offensive identity. We had a great running game but I think took a step or two backwards in the passing game.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think 2004 should have been the best Stoops team. You take the great 2003 offense whose only weakness was rushing the ball and add Peterson and that offense should have been unstoppable.

Unfortunately, I don't think in 2004 they ever really figured out their offensive identity. We had a great running game but I think took a step or two backwards in the passing game.

The offense wasn't the problem - either the the '03 or '04 offense was plenty good to win it all. There was a large drop-off in defense in '04, specifically in the secondary. Both the Pokes and the Aggies exposed it and SUC exploited it to the max. But I also agree with you as far as identity. With all the eye-popping stats and incredible plays by AD, it never felt like he was the difference maker. I thought we would have won all those games anyway using Jason's arm. But the one *big* exception was the UT game. AD carried the entire team that day and the horns had no clue how to stop him. To this day that game perplexes me (in a good way) - how the heck did that defense shut out that UT team?

[KC//CRIMSON]

Best Overall - 2000
Best Defense - 2001
Best Offense - 2004

[JLEW1818]

2003 was the best "regular season" team.

[GottaHavePride]

Best Overall - 2000
Best Defense - 2001
Best Offense - 2004

2003 won more awards on the defense side, but the 01 defense was sick. If we had an offense that year we could've won it again. Seriously. We lost by 10 in Lincoln to Eric Crouch, and we lost by three to the goddamn pokes.

The Cotton Bowl that year was one of the most amazing defensive performances I've seen. Too bad it was one of the most godawful boring games I've ever seen. Our defense was so good it was boring to watch, because we didn't even make huge plays - it was just watching Arkansas run into a brick wall for 3 1/2 hours.

[OUmillenium]

Yeah, what he said.

[swardboy]

Oh, sigh, but what we could be...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB9btJr4uTc&feature=related

:rolleyes:

[CK Sooner]

Oh, sigh, but what we could be...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB9btJr4uTc&feature=related

:rolleyes:

Damnit Good!!