Joe Lieberman (former Democratic nominee for Vice President) to speak tonight

[Big Red Ron]

at the GOP convention. Apparently, he's going to endorse McCain and discuss how McCain is the original "Change" candidate by working with many Democrats to pass bipartisan legislation.

My question is, has this ever happened before? A former candidate from another party endorsing a current candidate from the opposing party, especially so soon?

I think it speaks volumes about McCain's credibility as a bipartisan leader.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Nah... it does speak volumes about Lieberman being a flip-flopper though. ;)

[Big Red Ron]

Nah... it does speak volumes about Lieberman being a flip-flopper though. ;)I guess that would be the pessimistic view but Lieberman does caucus with the Dems in the Senate.

I didn't see any Republicans speak to Obama's ability to cross the isle to make things happen, as his campaign likes to tell us so often.

[tommieharris91]

I'm not sure what to think about Lieberman. I do think, however, that putting Lieberman on this ticket instead of Palin would do very little, if anything, to charge the super-conservatives.

[SoonerBorn68]

Lieberman lost his credibility with me when he was against abortion until he ran for VP. However, if it causes any stress for the Obama campaign, I'm all for it.

[lexsooner]

at the GOP convention. Apparently, he's going to endorse McCain and discuss how McCain is the original "Change" candidate by working with many Democrats to pass bipartisan legislation.

My question is, has this ever happened before? A former candidate from another party endorsing a current candidate from the opposing party, especially so soon?

I think it speaks volumes about McCain's credibility as a bipartisan leader.

Yes, after tonight, it might be a DEAD HEAT!

[Big Red Ron]

Yes, after tonight, it might be a DEAD HEAT!
Statistically, it already is. When you factor the scientific MOE and the historically Dem leaning polling, which should probably be studied in depth someday it is a dead heat.

[Big Red Ron]

Interesting that slanderous, half truths about Palin get 12-15 page responses from the Lib's on this board but one of true historical significance that doesn't help their boy shows such little interest.

Cat got your tongues?

[JohnnyMack]

I think this carrot was tossed out by the RNC in exchange for McCain not choosing JL as his running mate. I think it's good for politics in America but bad for the Republican party as I think it shows them as weakened by the hostage situation McCain almost put them in.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Lieberman lost his credibility with me when he was against abortion until he ran for VP. However, if it causes any stress for the Obama campaign, I'm all for it.Pretty much. Besides, he's wrong on almost everything except natl. defense.

[JohnnyMack]

The Republicans have clearly circled the wagons with the pick of Palin. They've retreated back to their conservative base in hopes that they can muster enough enthusiasm among those folks that they can eek out a win in November. By all accounts this is a race the R's should lose, but the polarizing nature of a black man with a funny name who is being portrayed as a muslim communist has given them hope. I wonder if the McCain hadn't bowed to the powers that be in the RNC and said, "Screw you guys, I'm picking who I want to pick" and taken Lieberman what would have happened in the general election? There are still a lot of undecided voters out there and I wonder if the "Maverick" of 2000 had been in this race instead of the eunuch 2008 version if he could have swayed enough HRC voters over to his side to win? The Republican party is in desperate need of a makeover and fast. I almost wonder if it isn't better if they don't lose now and then can roll out the big youngs guns in '12 like Jindal, Thune and of course Palin.

[Vaevictis]

My question is, has this ever happened before? A former candidate from another party endorsing a current candidate from the opposing party, especially so soon?

Zell Miller?

EDIT: Or did you mean a former candidate for VP?

[Vaevictis]

I didn't see any Republicans speak to Obama's ability to cross the isle to make things happen, as his campaign likes to tell us so often.

I have, just not on the national level.

EDIT 1:


Interesting that slanderous, half truths about Palin get 12-15 page responses from the Lib's on this board but one of true historical significance that doesn't help their boy shows such little interest.

Cat got your tongues?

Lieberman's been signalling that this has been coming for years. It's not really "news" to anyone who's been paying attention.

EDIT 2: IOW, Palin's situation is something that's new and hasn't been discussed ad nauseum by folks that follow the Democratic Party. Hand-wringing over Lieberman is sooooo 2006. It's just not interesting anymore.

[Jimminy Crimson]

Hadassah Lieberman is on the all-time, all-name team.

[StoopTroup]

Joe has lost his ever living mind.

There is a dieing moose that keeps bellowing his death call everytime Joe quits speaking.

The poor Moose should be put down. Have mercy GOP!

[Soonerus]

Joe and Fred Thompson doing a great job !!!

[StoopTroup]

Fred was great.

Joe is teh crazyman.

[SoonerBorn68]

Well, I think Joe will have sufficiently riled up the Democrats before the night's over.

:D

[Mandibleclaw]

I wonder how those Connecticut dems feel about their votes in 2006?

[Soonerus]

I wonder how those Connecticut dems feel about their votes in 2006?

Who really cares, he won last time as an Independant...

[Mandibleclaw]

Who really cares, he won last time as an Independant...

I am speaking of those registered dems who stuck with Joe after he declared his (I). I am thinking betrayed, backstabbed.

[Sooner Eclipse]

I am speaking of those registered dems who stuck with Joe after he declared his (I). I am thinking betrayed, backstabbed.

Thats OK, they've got 4 more years to forget all about this. Most have the attention span of a gnat anyway. Besides if this works, Sec of Def. Lieberman doesn't sound too bad. He can tell them to pound sand.

[lexsooner]

Statistically, it already is. When you factor the scientific MOE and the historically Dem leaning polling, which should probably be studied in depth someday it is a dead heat.

Nice speech by Lieberman. I like the guy, and I liked McCain more until he had to pander to his party's right wing core to get nominated, and the marverick didn't seem so "mavericky" anymore. BTW, if anyone in their right mind thinks either candidate, McCain or Obama, is going to make any progress against special interests and partisan politics, I recommend a cleaner type of meth to smoke.

As for BRR's comment above, I actually think the polls are pretty accurate. The same "Dem leaning polling" in 2004 was dead-on accurate, in fact. They had Bush up pretty much the whole fall, and it got closer, and right on election eve they had Bush up one or two percentage pts., and Bush ended up with one and a half more percentage points in the popular vote than Kerry. Unless Dem operatives have taken over these polls since 2004, I have no reason to believe they are not accurate. And thanks for the "de-negging." Not too many would do it.

See: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry.html

[SoonerStormchaser]

I really think they should've swapped Thompson w/ Lieberman in their respective slots.

That being said, Lieberman just gave the Republicans the dynamite needed to take O'Bomba apart: talks the talk, but hasn't done jack ****!

[Soonerus]

I really think they should've swapped Thompson w/ Lieberman in their respective slots.

That being said, Lieberman just gave the Republicans the dynamite needed to take O'Bomba apart: talks the talk, but hasn't done jack ****!

You are copying what Rove said...geezzz....

[Echoes]

I don't really agree with Joe on many points, and his flip-flopping on issues is pretty amazing.

However, I like the guy. He did good tonight, I thought. His speech seemed less "speechy" to me, and more of how he actually felt about McCain.

[Harry Beanbag]

The Republicans have clearly circled the wagons with the pick of Palin. They've retreated back to their conservative base in hopes that they can muster enough enthusiasm among those folks that they can eek out a win in November. By all accounts this is a race the R's should lose, but the polarizing nature of a black man with a funny name who is being portrayed as a muslim communist has given them hope. I wonder if the McCain hadn't bowed to the powers that be in the RNC and said, "Screw you guys, I'm picking who I want to pick" and taken Lieberman what would have happened in the general election? There are still a lot of undecided voters out there and I wonder if the "Maverick" of 2000 had been in this race instead of the eunuch 2008 version if he could have swayed enough HRC voters over to his side to win? The Republican party is in desperate need of a makeover and fast. I almost wonder if it isn't better if they don't lose now and then can roll out the big youngs guns in '12 like Jindal, Thune and of course Palin.


This is a long sour grapes paragraph, but my thoughts are that the Republicans are attempting to makeover themselves without the mess of a pesky Presidential loss by choosing Palin. Retreated back to their conservative base? WTF? That is the Republican party. The choice of Lieberman would have delivered the White House to Obama on a silver platter.

[SicEmBaylor]

You are copying what Rove said...geezzz....

Yes, but I'm not and I thought the same thing as I watched.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Joe says,

"War Clinton. Welfare reform, free trade, and balanced budget." Why Ronald Effn. Reagan would have applauded those. LOL!!!

Seriously, the pubs and hurricanes have done a good job keeping the social conservatives off the camera. Keeping sh1t-eating grinners such as Ralph Reed ,gary bauer, phyllis shaft-fly, and Tom DeLay off camera will help keep moderates in play.

[SicEmBaylor]

I have no use for Lieberman. He reminded me of all the reasons I detest McCain.

[Soonerus]

Chill, Sic'em...

[Blue]

I have no use for Lieberman. He reminded me of all the reasons I detest McCain.

I agree. Entitled...OLD...Bitter...come to mind. I'll never vote for O but I'll equally never vote for McCain. Barr for me.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I agree. Entitled...OLD...Bitter...come to mind. I'll never vote for O but I'll equally never vote for McCain. Barr for me.How'd you like those 2 Ross Perot administrations?

[Blue]

How'd you like those 2 Ross Perot administrations?


Whatever. I'm tired of politicians thinking it's their birthright to be in DC. They all suck and need to go home.

[SicEmBaylor]

Whatever. I'm tired of politicians thinking it's their birthright to be in DC. They all suck and need to go home.

Yep. Palin is a good example of who we need in D.C.....McCain is not.

I've had so much to drink it's not even funny but I'm still sober enough to know what's needed in this country.

Let me say this as many times as I possibly can. LOCAL CONTROL -- LOCAL CONTROL -- LOCAL CONTROL!

There's a reason why the Feds are supposed to be very limited in power -- domestic policy should be left to the states or to local government respectively! I'm so freaking sick and tired of the G-Damned Federal government having so much damned control over our lives.

LOCAL AND STATE CONTORL!!!!

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Interesting that slanderous, half truths about Palin get 12-15 page responses from the Lib's on this board but one of true historical significance that doesn't help their boy shows such little interest.

Cat got your tongues?Bwahahahaha. I think libs are outnumbered about 500 to 1 on this board. Perhaps your thread isn't getting a ton of pages because Lieberman's speech was a snorer.

[SoonerBorn68]

Bwahahahaha. I think libs are outnumbered about 500 to 1 on this board.

Bwahahahahahhaha. Riiiiiiiiiight.

[Big Red Ron]

Bwahahahaha. I think libs are outnumbered about 500 to 1 on this board. Perhaps your thread isn't getting a ton of pages because Lieberman's speech was a snorer.Whatever, and the only people that thought it was a snorer were the ones who were pissed that a Former Vice Presidential candidate from the Dem party just got up and said McCain is the real deal and Obama was full of hot air.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Or, maybe we just didn't watch it and don't care what he said. At least that's how I feel about it. I've already made up my mind on who I'm going to vote for and it isn't McCain - I don't feel the need to watch him or his peeps.

[JohnnyMack]

This is a long sour grapes paragraph, but my thoughts are that the Republicans are attempting to makeover themselves without the mess of a pesky Presidential loss by choosing Palin. Retreated back to their conservative base? WTF? That is the Republican party. The choice of Lieberman would have delivered the White House to Obama on a silver platter.

Sour grapes? About what?

I don't know if you paid attention to the fact the "conservative" Republican party didn't nominate Mike Huckabee, rather John McCain. You think John McCain is a conservative? So how wouldn't the Palin pick be retreating back to their base or core?

The shifting demographics in this country are going to make the Republican party obsolete in about 20 years.

[C&CDean]

JM,

For the love of everything holy, give it up. You are becoming more and more pathetic in your blind support for your boy, and you sound more and more like one of the talking heads the Brack people stick on TV.

Go vote for the dumbass if you have to, just stop acting so silly. I'm a white dude, and I dislike your boy for many many reasons. Yes, one of them is because he's been directly involved for many years with all things muslim/racist/socialist. I'd love to vote for a black man if he was qualified. Your boy ain't even close. And it pains me to see normally intelligent people blathering on and on about the virtues of this schmo. I've met you, and I believe you're smarter than you're acting here.

I guess attacking McCain/Palin is the only thing you've got, since your boy ain't got a damn thing for you to crow about. Change? pfffft.

[badger]

I am speaking of those registered dems who stuck with Joe after he declared his (I). I am thinking betrayed, backstabbed.

Of course, the reason Joe HAD to run as an independent was because the Democrats backstabbed him first in that state. He LOST as an incumbent Democrat in 2006, even after being the party nominee for VP in 2000 (he stayed on the ballot in 2000, just in case Gore lost, so he'd have an office to fall back on, lol).

So, there has been much backstabbery and betrayal already on registered dems part, as well as Lieberman's part (who I think looks a lot like the emperor in Star Wars, just sayin'). Lieberman focused far too much on national aspirations and national issues (he ran again in 2004 for president, a very unsuccessful campaign that ended here in Oklahoma with crowds booing him, lol) and that probably made Connecticut dem's feel more betrayed than Liberman's stance on the war.

But anyways, there is fault on both sides. Lieberman will not convince diehard dems to vote for McCain, but he definitely convinces Republicans they're doing the right thing by voting for McCain... this was why W. had a diverse group of performances and speakers in 2000 - not because he was trying to get their votes, which have always been Democratic largely - but because he wanted Republicans to know that he was the right candidate.

[badger]

I'd love to vote for a black man if he was qualified. Your boy ain't even close.

I would have been too young to vote in 1996, but I was extremely hopefuly that a certain Colin Powell would be Dole's running mate.

[The Maestro]

All I know is Joey L. got the RNC to applaud something about Bill Clinton when he spoke about how Clinton crossed party lines at times but Obama never has...THAT was impressive and something I thought I would never see!

[JohnnyMack]

All I know is Joey L. got the RNC to applaud something about Bill Clinton when he spoke about how Clinton crossed party lines at times but Obama never has...THAT was impressive and something I thought I would never see!

Untrue. But whatever.

[badger]

To set the record straight, the AP wire story:


In a clear appeal for backers of Obama's former rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Lieberman said, "Let me contrast Barack Obama's record to that of the last Democratic president, Bill Clinton, who stood up to some of those same Democratic interest groups and worked with Republicans and got some important things done, like welfare reform, free trade agreements, and a balanced budget."

Lieberman said the comparison "may make history here at this Republican convention," but it drew only lukewarm response from the partisan crowd.

So, there you have it - they did applaud, but not much. So, you're both right :D

It makes sense - Bill Clinton was the bane of Republican's supreme majority in the late 90s. He vetoes every Republican measure in sight and Rep's were forced to work with him or work with Democrats to override or at least avoid the whole veto process. Bill Clinton is still very much an enemy to staunch Reagan Republicans. To other not-so-hardcore Republicans, he's a reminder of how Democrats in power can flaunt their position for personal pleasure. You've recently seen it with Edwards, you probably remember it with Clinton, and who can forget JFK. Perhaps it's not a fair assessment of extramarital affairs, but to political opposing point of view's, it's dishonorable behavior, especially for those seeking and serving the office of presidency.

[JohnnyMack]

So, there you have it - they did applaud, but not much. So, you're both right :D

I was talking about Obama never having crossed party lines.

[The Maestro]

To set the record straight, the AP wire story:



So, there you have it - they did applaud, but not much. So, you're both right :D

lukewarm applause for Clinton at the RNC is like a thunderous ovation. It would be like OU retiring Darrell Royal's jersey.

[badger]

:mad: OK, guys. Just trying to agree with you both, but if you'd rather I just disagree with you then that's fine. Ring the bell, I have a song to sing along with its chimes:

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. YOU'RE WRONG!

;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

lukewarm applause for Clinton at the RNC is like a thunderous ovation. It would be like OU retiring Darrell Royal's jersey.Darrell Royal was once a Sooner. Clinton never was a conservative, or a republican. The lukewarm applause was just being polite, IMO.

BTW, were you at the TK last sat? I was there through the boring second half, and til the boring end.

[The Maestro]

Darrell Royal was once a Sooner. Clinton never was a conservative, or a republican. The lukewarm applause was just being polite, IMO.

Agreed...but I just didn't think I would ever see that happen, polite or not.

Politics and polite rarely go hand in hand.

[badger]

Although... retiring Darrell Royal's jersey in an unorthodox manner might get some wonderful applause :D

You know... burning it, burying it, sending it in a big box to Austin to remind them that he was a Sooner first. There are MANY ways to retire a jersey.

President Boren: Today, we retire the jersey of former Sooner Darrell Royal!

Joe Castiglione: Gentlemen, the cube that exploded the Steve Bartman baseball, please.

(jersey explodes inside glass cube)

Boren: Thank you, Mr. Royal, for all you have done for Sooner athletics... and now you are officially done with Sooner athletics.

[Civicus_Sooner]

Or, maybe we just didn't watch it and don't care what he said. At least that's how I feel about it. I've already made up my mind on who I'm going to vote for and it isn't McCain - I don't feel the need to watch him or his peeps.
So, you've decided to vote for a guy that was in the state legislature 4 years ago without even hearing the debates or looking objectively at what these two men are made of? Huh

[JohnnyMack]

So, you've decided to vote for a guy that was in the state legislature 4 years ago without even hearing the debates or looking objectively at what these two men are made of? Huh

Have you been living in a cave for the last year and a half?

[Civicus_Sooner]

I was talking about Obama never having crossed party lines.
Name one thing that he did that crossed part lines. One thing that his party was like, "No effin way." but he did it anyway. One.

[Civicus_Sooner]

Have you been living in a cave for the last year and a half?
Well, considering thses two guys haven't been the nominees for a year and a half, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Obama was playing to his base, like McCain to get the party's nomination. That all changes when you have to get other's to vote for you than, the gay/lesbian/bigender alliance and Peta's endorsement.

[SoonerInKCMO]

So, you've decided to vote for a guy that was in the state legislature 4 years ago without even hearing the debates or looking objectively at what these two men are made of? Huh

Ummm... no. I've watched debates. I've read books. I used that information to decide whom to vote for; I did not use speeches in the middle of the conventions to decide.

[badger]

Name one thing that he did that crossed part lines. One thing that his party was like, "No effin way." but he did it anyway. One.

Well... I know I am not in this argument, but I can think of one thing that no other Democrat would touch with a 10-foot pole:

Co-authoring a bill with Tom Coburn. (http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/)

Sure, they'll sponsor a popular bill, no problem, but to have your name attached with a guy that is so anti-Democrat, so anti-Senate, so anti-pork... this is what Democrats would be adamantly against, not the bill itself.

[Civicus_Sooner]

Well... I know I am not in this argument, but I can think of one thing that no other Democrat would touch with a 10-foot pole:

Co-authoring a bill with Tom Coburn. (http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/)

Sure, they'll sponsor a popular bill, no problem, but to have your name attached with a guy that is so anti-Democrat, so anti-Senate, so anti-pork... this is what Democrats would be adamantly against, not the bill itself.First Tom is not anti Democrat, he's anti wasteful spending. agreeing on a database for spending is so basic, it seems crazy that there isn't one already. If you think that Obama and Coburn will agree on what, how much and when to use and spend tax dollars, I have a bridge to sell you.

Again, show me something like McCain Feingold or McCain Kennedy or McCain voting against the Bush tax cuts. All conterversial, all issues where McCain was a man alone standing in the face of his party.

That bill you used as an example probably had 20 coauthors and passed with bipartisan support, that's what I'm saying. McCain has a record of not just being another Republican vote, much like Coburn, unlike Obama.

[badger]

First Tom is not anti Democrat, he's anti wasteful spending.

(Oh, you make it too easy... do I dare? Can I resist? NO I CAN'T!)

There's a difference?! :D:D:D:D:D

:O sorry.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

badger get back to the football board with the rest of us

[badger]

badger get back to the football board with the rest of us

Yes, sir. Would you like...

a) more factual information about Brian Kelly, or

b) drowning kittens... er, I mean, cubkittens?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I choose A for teh win!

[badger]

I choose A for teh win!

sorry, jaux killed that thread about an hour and a half ago. :(

[Condescending Sooner]

Ummm... no. I've watched debates. I've read books. I used that information to decide whom to vote for; I did not use speeches in the middle of the conventions to decide.

What debates have you watched? I must have missed them.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Watching the primary debates was enough for me.

[Civicus_Sooner]

(Oh, you make it too easy... do I dare? Can I resist? NO I CAN'T!)

There's a difference?! :D:D:D:D:D

:O sorry.

That was pretty good, however, I do believe their are Dems that are anti wasteful spending. Obama just isn't one of them.

[Civicus_Sooner]

Watching the primary debates was enough for me.Well but watching primary debates are totally different. It'd like watching an OU scrimmage and a USC scrimmage and saying you know all you need to know about who's going to win or who the better team is.

[badger]

That was pretty good, however, I do believe their are Dems that are anti wasteful spending. Obama just isn't one of them.

:rolleyes: Yeaaaaaahhhh. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-12-11-earmarks-freshmen_N.htm) :rolleyes:

[Civicus_Sooner]

:rolleyes: Yeaaaaaahhhh. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-12-11-earmarks-freshmen_N.htm) :rolleyes:You go girl!:D

[badger]

You go girl!:D

I...um... stole that link off Dr. Coburn's site... um... yeah.

:D

[Big Red Ron]

Well but watching primary debates are totally different. It'd like watching an OU scrimmage and a USC scrimmage and saying you know all you need to know about who's going to win or who the better team is.
That's actually a pretty good analagy. Every Sooner or Trojan team is different year to year, as are Republican and Democratic candidates every 4 years.

Trust me, McCain ain't no GWB. They actually butted heads often and McCain was usually right. In fact McCain would have been President 8 years ago, if it had nor been for the Bush name and financial backing and a few smear tactics in South Carolina which killed the McCain momentum after winning the early primaries.