The "Purpose Driven" Debate

[Blue]

This makes me nauseous on many different levels. Words like FORCED, FAKE, EMERGENT, UNIVERSALIST, CRAP and POO come to mind.

Prolly shouldn't have mentioned it. BUT I DID! ;) :D

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Don't worry, it's above Obammer Lammer's paygrade.

[The Maestro]

Frankly, I enjoyed the style of the session immensely. For starters, Rick Warren is a cutting edge minister and said at the outset that this was an opportunity to hear both sides in a non-threatening environment and to just be real...something you rarely see in politics today. It was fair for both sides and I came away impressed with both men, moreso than I was before on both sides.

Obama does seemed inexperienced when some of his "political experience" talk went back to the Illinois state legislature. McCain had some great stories, but went to the "Vietnam Prison Camp" stuff a bit much for my liking.

I thoroughly enjoyed it and believe it will be more productive than network style debates. McCain mentioning a 7K tax credit per child definitely caught my attention. Who knows? Both are good men who are wanting to help our country more than I am willing to try so they have my respect. Sure, the crowd was more conservative, but I thought they treated both sides with respect, as they should.

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, heck, why make decisions above your pay grade when you can just plagiarize answers from Nobel-winning authors?


And I was standing outside for a few minutes, outside my cell. He came walking up. He stood there for a minute and with his handle [sic] on the dirt in the courtyard he drew a cross and he stood there and a minute later, he rubbed it out and walked away.


As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work

[OUDoc]

"He rubbed it out" in McCain's quote probably doesn't mean what you think. :)

[Penguin]

Oh, this is about the actual debate?


I thought this was going to be about the tutti-frutti feel-good book that every Christian should avoid.

[Hamhock]

Oh, this is about the actual debate?


I thought this was going to be about the tutti-frutti feel-good book that every Christian should avoid.

why do you hate country clubs?

[JohnnyMack]

I will add that I think John McCain is a good politician who knows what people want to hear.

I think BHO is a good speaker who can at times come across a bit condescending.

That being said, I'd like to see those two take an IQ test. I think I know who would score higher.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Well, heck, why make decisions above your pay grade when you can just plagiarize answers from Nobel-winning authors?

How do you know he plagiarized it? Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it didn't happen. And until you can show your official POW ID card and secret decoder ring from the southeast asian theater, that's flirting with taking a shot at the man for the sake of the man, not the situation or circumstance.

Dick saw Spot run. If I tell you a story about seeing a dog running, it's not plagiarization.

[Blue]

Oh, this is about the actual debate?


I thought this was going to be about the tutti-frutti feel-good book that every Christian should avoid.

I agree. Some churches spend more time studying that book than the Bible. It misquotes scripture and rick warren is heading up the emergent (everybody under one roof and one God) church. So it seems. I could be wrong and he could be doing alot of good, though.

[Frozen Sooner]

How do you know he plagiarized it? Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it didn't happen. And until you can show your official POW ID card and secret decoder ring from the southeast asian theater, that's flirting with taking a shot at the man for the sake of the man, not the situation or circumstance.

Dick saw Spot run. If I tell you a story about seeing a dog running, it's not plagiarization.

Let's see...

Has John McCain been caught modifying stories about his POW experience to play to local audiences in the past? Check.

Has John McCain described himself as a great admirer of Solzhenitsyn in the past, and quoted from The Gulag Archipelago in the past? Check.

And until you can prove that it DID happen, you're flirting with just believing everything the guy says regardless of situation or circumstance.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

And until you can prove that it DID happen, you're flirting with just believing everything the guy says regardless of situation or circumstance.

Given that the man actually spent time in the POW camp and the story isn't exactly all that far fetched, the burden of truth is on YOU to discount the man with something besides circumstantial evidence.

I like the movie Backdraft and admire, regardless of how cheesy and unrealistic it was, Ron Howard's archetype firefighter in Bull McCaffrey, his firefighting scenes, and how the depiction of smoke-eating fearlessness is portrayed in an antiquated, yet effective character whose life, simply defined, is fighting fire and protecting his corner of Chicago just like his father did, just like he believed it should be done.

I have fought fire. I have breathed smoke. I eat that sh*t up like it was a sammich. I believe effort, daring, and my hindquarters are what stands between life and death in many circumstances for my little corner of Tulsa. Insert firefighting story here, take your pick. I'll even show you a scar or two. I even quote lines from Backdraft on occasion to be a goof.

You calling B.S. on that, Mikey?

Would you like me to prove that it happened, whatever the results of 'Insert Firefighting Story Here' was? Or is the onus upon you, as a bearer of doubt, to prove me wrong or take it as experienced fact?

You're a smart fella, no doubt about it. Make the correlation with me. If someone in the depths of POW hell called BS, I just might give it some weight. If another firefighter listened to my story and called horsesh*t, then the doubts have weight. UNTIL then, you're making biased accusations based on circumstantial evidence.

AKA, you're talking out your butt without a microphone.

[Frozen Sooner]

Given that the man actually spent time in the POW camp and the story isn't exactly all that far fetched, the burden of truth is on YOU to discount the man with something besides circumstantial evidence.

I like the movie Backdraft and admire, regardless of how cheesy and unrealistic it was, Ron Howard's archetype firefighter in Bull McCaffrey, his firefighting scenes, and how the depiction of smoke-eating fearlessness is portrayed in an antiquated, yet effective character whose life, simply defined, is fighting fire and protecting his corner of Chicago just like his father did, just like he believed it should be done.

I have fought fire. I have breathed smoke. I eat that sh*t up like it was a sammich. I believe effort, daring, and my hindquarters are what stands between life and death in many circumstances for my little corner of Tulsa. Insert firefighting story here, take your pick. I'll even show you a scar or two. I even quote lines from Backdraft on occasion to be a goof.

You calling B.S. on that, Mikey?

Would you like me to prove that it happened, whatever the results of 'Insert Firefighting Story Here' was? Or is the onus upon you, as a bearer of doubt, to prove me wrong or take it as experienced fact?

You're a smart fella, no doubt about it. Make the correlation with me. If someone in the depths of POW hell called BS, I just might give it some weight. If another firefighter listened to my story and called horsesh*t, then the doubts have weight. UNTIL then, you're making biased accusations based on circumstantial evidence.

AKA, you're talking out your butt without a microphone.

Yeah, I think that this story of McCain's which has evolved several times over the last eight years is a bit farfetched.

Yeah, I think that because it bears a pretty striking resemblance between a story of Solzhenitsyn's, that there's a chance that McCain has either altered a story or made this one up. McCain's been known to alter his POW stories to pander to a crowd before.

That's awesome, though. I guess that nobody can ever question John McCain's stories even when they change, because he was a POW.

I guess when he comes out with his story about being visited by three wise men in POW camp we can't question that one either.

[soonerscuba]

Looks like the Swiftboat chickens have come home to roost. Note to the vast majority of Republicans, the Dems didn't put McCain's war record on the table, you did.

You have to be an utter fool to think that the purple band-aids wouldn't come back to bite you. Guess what, in a few years I doubt you're going to be super thrilled about the concept of a unitary executive either, but you made the bed.

[Frozen Sooner]

Ah, screw it. The assertion isn't really provable one way or another. I apologize for making an unprovable assertion against a man who is, after all, a war hero.

I still think that the similarities between the stories are a little pat.

[JohnnyMack]

I think he made it up. Sue me.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Ah, screw it. The assertion isn't really provable one way or another. I apologize for making an unprovable assertion against a man who is, after all, a war hero.

I still think that the similarities between the stories are a little pat.

That's my take. If it turns out to be bunk and the proof comes together, I'll be the first one standing next to you leveling a finger, Mike.

[StoopTroup]

When someone evesdrops on your conversation and doesn't really get to hear everything that was said and then suddenly interupts you to insinuate that you may have said something that wasn't PC or possibly a word in the conversation could be construed as having the potential to make them uncomfortable....

Is it OK to throat punch said person?

[Frozen Sooner]

When someone evesdrops on your conversation and doesn't really get to hear everything that was said and then suddenly interupts you to insinuate that you may have said something that wasn't PC or possibly a word in the conversation could be construed as having the potential to make them uncomfortable....

Is it OK to throat punch said person?

Only so long as you do it with a purpose.

[StoopTroup]

It happened to a friend today and all he said was he liked Chinese Food.

I think the other guy thought he said something about China shouldn't be allowed to do the Olympics...lol

Why people are so On-Guard anymore and even are evesdropping on their Co-workers just so they can get themselves PO'd is astonishing.

I think evesdropping is cause for disiplinary action.

To bad everybody is more worried about the misuse of the English language than the actual actions of employees.

[Frozen Sooner]

OK, I'm having a hard time seeing how anyone could take that the wrong way.

Were they mad that they didn't distinguish between schzechuan and mandarin or something?

[StoopTroup]

OK, I'm having a hard time seeing how anyone could take that the wrong way.

Were they mad that they didn't distinguish between schzechuan and mandarin or something?

Nope...

They just heard china or chinese and took it to mean something negative.

[Frozen Sooner]

Er.

But isn't China an actual country?

[The Maestro]

You gotta love Soonerfans.

Only place where a thread about two Presidential candidates answering questions in a church can lead me to trying to decide what to order at Panda Express tonight. I think I will go with Kung Pao Chicken and some broccoli and beef...oh, and mix the noodles and rice!

[Harry Beanbag]

Damn, pick me up some. I always get Kung Pao Chicken and mix the rice and noodles.

[StoopTroup]

It was just something that popped into my head due to the content of this thread.

Sorry if it took things in a different direction but even here on this board I've seen this occur even though it was in writing.

Maybe there's something hallucinogenic in MSG. :D

[AlbqSooner]

Maybe there's something hallucinogenic in MSG. :D

Fried a few brain cells along the way? That was MDA. :eek:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Someone in the media should ask Obama what he thought was the moment of viability as a human being for both of his kids. America would learn a lot about him from his answer to that question. Haha!

[Curly Bill]

Someone in the media should ask Obama what he thought was the moment of viability as a human being for both of his kids. America would learn a lot about him from his answer to that question. Haha!

Would it be different for him...you know being Muslim and all? :D

Hey I'm kiddin folks. I know he's not really a Muslim. :P

[StoopTroup]

No matter how this election turns out...I hope whoever wins can at least get more Americans to believe it's gonna get better for all or at least most of us.

[soonersn20xx]

Someone in the media should ask Obama what he thought was the moment of viability as a human being for both of his kids. America would learn a lot about him from his answer to that question. Haha!
I don't think his answer would change, and what he basically said was that it is beyond his intelligence to be able to answer when life actually begins. I believe any other answer to that question is arrogance and agenda driven.

[Harry Beanbag]

I don't think his answer would change, and what he basically said was that it is beyond his intelligence to be able to answer when life actually begins. I believe any other answer to that question is arrogance and agenda driven.


I detest abortion debates, but this is a cop out. People like Barack think life actually begins the moment the mother decides not to kill the fetus. That probably wouldn't go over so well on camera though.

[StoopTroup]

Haven't these edumacated folks ever looked at sperm under a microscope?

Don't people realize the sacrifice those boys make just to get a shot at an egg?

Then once the deed is done...

You'd want to put an end to such a journey?

I'll never understand how anyone can do it.

It's such a magical, mystery, tour.

http://nmhm.washingtondc.museum/exhibits/imgs/conception3.jpg

[def_lazer_fc]

i think masturbation is a form of abortion.

not really, but i dream for the day when someone takes it that far. :D

[def_lazer_fc]

Given that the man actually spent time in the POW camp and the story isn't exactly all that far fetched, the burden of truth is on YOU to discount the man with something besides circumstantial evidence.

I like the movie Backdraft and admire, regardless of how cheesy and unrealistic it was, Ron Howard's archetype firefighter in Bull McCaffrey, his firefighting scenes, and how the depiction of smoke-eating fearlessness is portrayed in an antiquated, yet effective character whose life, simply defined, is fighting fire and protecting his corner of Chicago just like his father did, just like he believed it should be done.

I have fought fire. I have breathed smoke. I eat that sh*t up like it was a sammich. I believe effort, daring, and my hindquarters are what stands between life and death in many circumstances for my little corner of Tulsa. Insert firefighting story here, take your pick. I'll even show you a scar or two. I even quote lines from Backdraft on occasion to be a goof.

You calling B.S. on that, Mikey?

Would you like me to prove that it happened, whatever the results of 'Insert Firefighting Story Here' was? Or is the onus upon you, as a bearer of doubt, to prove me wrong or take it as experienced fact?

You're a smart fella, no doubt about it. Make the correlation with me. If someone in the depths of POW hell called BS, I just might give it some weight. If another firefighter listened to my story and called horsesh*t, then the doubts have weight. UNTIL then, you're making biased accusations based on circumstantial evidence.

AKA, you're talking out your butt without a microphone.

a moral stand by a guy that still has an avatar of a person with down syndrome doing something "funny" :rolleyes: :mad:

[Blue]

i think masturbation is a form of abortion.

not really, but i dream for the day when someone takes it that far. :D

Man, that's clever.

[Blue]

a moral stand by a guy that still has an avatar of a person with down syndrome doing something "funny" :rolleyes: :mad:


And what's your stand?

[def_lazer_fc]

And what's your stand?

would whatever my stand be in this situation make any difference in what i said? :rolleyes:

[Blue]

would whatever my stand be in this situation make any difference in what i said? :rolleyes:

What's your stand on anything?

[def_lazer_fc]

What's your stand on anything?

someone's avoiding my post. again, i ask politely, what does my stand on this issue have anything to do with what i posted?

[Blue]

someone's avoiding my post. again, i ask politely, what does my stand on this issue have anything to do with what i posted?

You posted an opinion. Therefore I asked you a question. Pretty standard message board procedure if you asked me.

[def_lazer_fc]

are you asking my opinion on the "purpose driven debate" thread? cuz if you are, i never put one out.

as for the latter, if you ask me what my opinion on the matter is, then its that i find it in bad taste and highly offensive.

[MrJimBeam]

Looks like the Swiftboat chickens have come home to roost. Note to the vast majority of Republicans, the Dems didn't put McCain's war record on the table, you did.

Oh, I hope so very much the Obama's question McCain's time as a POW. Note to all Dems, John McCain came out against the Swiftboat Vets.

[Harry Beanbag]

What's your stand on anything?


I'm not sure he has any. He just sits back and flings poo at everyone else.

[soonersn20xx]

Oh, I hope so very much the Obama's question McCain's time as a POW. Note to all Dems, John McCain came out against the Swiftboat Vets.

Being shot down and captured by the enemy is not a presidential preparer or qualifier, if it is......then you must consider the fact that as a pilot he lost 5 airplanes and graduated 894th out of 899 people.

Now if what you consider above is an attack, then anything is.

[olevetonahill]

I'm not sure he has any. He just sits back and flings poo at everyone else.

So hes a Monkey huh ?
;)

[olevetonahill]

Being shot down and captured by the enemy is not a presidential preparer or qualifier, if it is......then you must consider the fact that as a pilot he lost 5 airplanes and graduated 894th out of 899 people.

Now if what you consider above is an attack, then anything is.

Yup JSM is such a wus
To bad Hes Not as great as Obama :rolleyes:

[JohnnyMack]

I don't think Jack Cafferty thinks much of John McCain:


NEW YORK (CNN) -- Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation. Our president has spent one-third of his entire two terms in office either at Camp David, Maryland, or at Crawford, Texas, on vacation.

His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.

Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.

I think he made a big mistake. When he was invited last spring to attend a discussion of the role of faith in his life with Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, at Messiah College in Pennsylvania, McCain didn't bother to show up. Now I know why.

It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. "It means I'm saved and forgiven." Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries. McCain then retold a story we've all heard a hundred times about a guard in Vietnam drawing a cross in the sand.

Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not?

Throughout the evening, McCain chose to recite portions of his stump speech as answers to the questions he was being asked. Why? He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.

He was asked "if evil exists." His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to "the gates of hell." That was it.

He was asked to define rich. After trying to dodge the question -- his wife is worth a reported $100 million -- he finally said he thought an income of $5 million was rich.

One after another, McCain's answers were shallow, simplistic, and trite. He showed the same intellectual curiosity that George Bush has -- virtually none.

Where are John McCain's writings exploring the vexing moral issues of our time? Where are his position papers setting forth his careful consideration of foreign policy, the welfare state, education, America's moral responsibility in the world, etc., etc., etc.?

John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. His father and grandfather were four star admirals in the Navy. Some have suggested that might have played a role in McCain being admitted. His academic record was awful. And it shows over and over again whenever McCain is called upon to think on his feet.

He no longer allows reporters unfettered access to him aboard the "Straight Talk Express" for a reason. He simply makes too many mistakes. Unless he's reciting talking points or reading from notes or a TelePrompTer, John McCain is lost. He can drop bon mots at a bowling alley or diner -- short glib responses that get a chuckle, but beyond that McCain gets in over his head very quickly.

I am sick and tired of the president of the United States embarrassing me. The world we live in is too complex to entrust it to someone else whose idea of intellectual curiosity and grasp of foreign policy issues is to tell us he can look into Vladimir Putin's eyes and see into his soul.

George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure. And the part that troubles me most is he seems content with himself.

He will leave office with the country $10 trillion in debt, fighting two wars, our international reputation in shambles, our government cloaked in secrecy and suspicion that his entire presidency has been a litany of broken laws and promises, our citizens' faith in our own country ripped to shreds. Yet Bush goes bumbling along, grinning and spewing moronic one-liners, as though nobody understands what a colossal failure he has been.

I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him.

[olevetonahill]

I don't think Jack Cafferty thinks much of John McCain:

No **** ?:rolleyes:

[soonersn20xx]

I think Jack Cafferty sums things up pretty nicely, but the bias media says John McCain did a better job Saturday. :rolleyes:

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I think Jack Cafferty is a tool, spewing vitriol and shading circumstance for political purposes. It seriously cracks me up when time spent in Crawford, Texas or at Camp David is used as a measuring stick of the failures of the current president.

Do we honestly think that he magically STOPS being the president just because he's not at his desk in the Oval Office? Do we honestly think he loses some sort of ability to make decisions and execute the office of the president because of where he happens to be taking a crap that day? The quality of those decisions aside, where is a moot point.


His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.

This is retarded. It's purposely spinning one fact into another to shed a negative light on the president. To convince the layman that he's somehow floating in a neverland of isolation when he's not poised at the desk, pen in hand, ready to kick *** at a moment's notice.

He's the PRESIDENT. He could be sitting in a lawn chair on top of Pikes Peak and guess what? He'll STILL be the president and he'll still be able to perform his duties, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with how he does it.

100% crap.

[JohnnyMack]

I think John McCain is an effective politician for our society. It doesn't surprise me at all that he's doing well.

[soonersn20xx]

Do we honestly think that he magically STOPS being the president just because he's not at his desk in the Oval Office? Do we honestly think he loses some sort of ability to make decisions and execute the office of the president because of where he happens to be taking a crap that day? The quality of those decisions aside, where is a moot point.


Nah, only sex with Monica Lewinsky makes you lose your ability to make decisions and execute the office of the presidency, remember. ;)

[MrJimBeam]

Being shot down and captured by the enemy is not a presidential preparer or qualifier,

As a matter of fact, I don't. I still dare ya to make a campain ad pointing it out.

[SoonerProphet]

It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president.

You know, this statement could be directed at about 95% of our federally elected (and those not elected) officials. In terms of foreign policy, for the last 20 years we have played monopoly while the rest of the world plays chess. Dullards, the whole lot of them.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You know, this statement could be directed at about 95% of our federally elected (and those not elected) officials. In terms of foreign policy, for the last 20 years we have played monopoly while the rest of the world plays chess. Dullards, the whole lot of them.America oftentimes gives the benefit of a doubt to those governments, giving them second, third chances etc. to show their evil intentions.

[SoonerProphet]

America oftentimes gives the benefit of a doubt to those governments, giving them second, third chances etc. to show their evil intentions.

yeah, cause it is always as simple as "evil intentions". couldn't have anything to do with reckless policy by a bunch of nitwits.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

yeah, cause it is always as simple as "evil intentions". couldn't have anything to do with reckless policy by a bunch of nitwits.This nitwit was giving you the benefit of the doubt.