MUST HAVE THIS BOOK!

[Okla-homey]

I read in a local periodical today about the just published:

Bud Ballew: Legendary Oklahoma Lawman

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5760/ballew206601650zt2.jpg

It chronicles the history of the notorious Ardmore street known as "Bloody Caddo," which once boasted the most crime per foot of any street in America. It also details Ballew's seven shoot-outs and even a court room shoot-out in which Ballew got the bulge on a feller who snuck a hogleg into a Carter Co. courtroom.

My grandpaw split many a wig on Caddo in his thirty years on the Ardmore PD. This book is a must have for yours truly.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9468/65012870gk5.png
Ballew (seated) and Pat Garrett

[TUSooner]

Do you want us to take up a collection?

[OUDoc]

Do you want us to take up a collection?
And use it to buy a hat that actually fits Pat Garrett's head?

[Frozen Sooner]

I am pleasantly surprised that this is the book.

[Chuck Bao]

I'd like to read that book.

Even more, I wish I could ask my now deceased dad or grandpa for their stories.

I vaguely remember dad telling me about some of our farm workers getting involved in something to do with vaseline and switchblades on Caddo street. I still don't get what the vaseline was for.

My grandpa was the toughest guy around and I guess that a lot of men had to be the toughest guy around to survive. Others tell the story of my grandpa stopping a KKK rally and telling them that they had no business in the area. They left.

Somehow, I think the fortitude wasn't passed on, or maybe we just post on message boards these days.

I'd like to read the book. Thanks for recommendation, Homey.

[Okla-homey]

I'd like to read that book.

Even more, I wish I could ask my now deceased dad or grandpa for their stories.

I vaguely remember dad telling me about some of our farm workers getting involved in something to do with vaseline and switchblades on Caddo street. I still don't get what the vaseline was for.



Hair jelly dude. According to grandpaw (died in 1989) no self-respecting oil field trash would head to Caddo on a Friday night without his hair slicked. Aside from making him look 'slick" to the slatterns in the beer joints, slicked hair can't be pulled in a rough-and-tumble. What's more, if he got in a fight, a couple of hand sweeps thru his hair and quick swipes to his face would make cuts from face punches less likely because his face would be greased.

[StoopTroup]

Ghey guys always lube up before a tussle. ;)

[Chuck Bao]

Homey, I just noticed your Avatar. My HS US History teacher used to say that Alfalfa Bill Murray, prior to being governor, would sometimes practice law in his underwear on hot summer days in Tishomingo.

You're not thinking about practicing law in your underwear, are you?

Although, I don't always agree with your political views, I'd still vote for you as Gov'nor.

[Okla-homey]

Homey, I just noticed your Avatar. My HS US History teacher used to say that Alfalfa Bill Murray, prior to being governor, would sometimes practice law in his underwear on hot summer days in Tishomingo.

You're not thinking about practicing law in your underwear, are you?

Although, I don't always agree with your political views, I'd still vote for you as Gov'nor.

Alfalfa Bill was a tad too "populist" for my tastes, but he was colorful and loved to "stick it to the man" which was what we needed at the time.

Unfortunately, he went 'round the bend in his later years and wrote some eugenics stuff that is pretty offensive (and wrong) that Hitler would have signed off on.

IMHO, he was the last Oklahoma gov not bought and paid for by special interests.

[King Crimson]

Alfalfa Bill was a tad too "populist" for my tastes, but he was colorful and loved to "stick it to the man" which was what we needed at the time.

Unfortunately, he went 'round the bend in his later years and wrote some eugenics stuff that is pretty offensive (and wrong) that Hitler would have signed off on.

IMHO, he was the last Oklahoma gov not bought and paid for by special interests.

i'd like to take credit for being the first to point out that Homey is a faux-elitist scumbag and hates the people ("too populist for my taste")....and not the fun-loving, we're all in it together funnies and shared Oklahoma history that the "Good Morning" series might indicate.

when, in fact, it's all ideological training to accept that Homey prefers the vanguard party, military lords and civil guardians as lawyer. you must accept his conclusions on issues of heroism in the Civil (Union all the way) and Indian Wars (they signed the treaties, screw'em, it's law).....

yet somehow, still he finds it in his heart to like Andrew Jackson. who was a genocidal maniac when it came to Indians.

;)

[Okla-homey]

i'd like to take credit for being the first to point out that Homey is a faux-elitist scumbag and hates the people ("too populist for my taste")....and not the fun-loving, we're all in it together funnies and shared Oklahoma history that the "Good Morning" series might indicate.

when, in fact, it's all ideological training to accept that Homey prefers the vanguard party, military lords and civil guardians as lawyer. you must accept his conclusions on issues of heroism in the Civil (Union all the way) and Indian Wars (they signed the treaties, screw'em, it's law).....

yet somehow, still he finds it in his heart to like Andrew Jackson. who was a genocidal maniac when it came to Indians.

;)

I challenge you to find any writing posted by me indicating support for Andrew Jackson's politics, especially his indian policies. Ditto 18th and 19th century US indian policy. You are, however, completely accurate in your assessment of my views of the Cornfederacy of Dunces.

[King Crimson]

i'm just funnin ya Homey. though, you are a vanguard party weirdo.

[Okla-homey]

i'm just funnin ya Homey. though, you are a vanguard party weirdo.

Please feel free to hate me, I'm a big boy and I can take it. But please try and be accurate in your characterization.

as far as being anti-populist, if I were king of America for a day and could make law, literacy and being able to answer three questions as a condition of the right to vote would be required. 1) name two branches of the federal government 2) Which branch passes laws? 3) name one of your two US senators.

[King Crimson]

Please feel free to hate me, I'm a big boy and I can take it. But please try and be accurate in your characterization.

this thread already exists. you wanna deny that you are pretty much ha ha about the constitution so long as it suits your definition of "citizen":


Yes. In fact, it's appropriate. It may well be a Jack Nicholson cliche from an average movie, nevertheless, people don't need to know everytime someone takes a dump in DC, or inside the US diplomatic mission to Bolivistan. Afterall, far too many wouldn't understand, or care, if they received a Powerpoint briefing and were provided an outline in advance.

People generally elect a government to provide for their safety and to facilitate a climate in which they are afforded a reasonable shot at earning a living. Everything else is merely extra-constitutional gravy.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2351546#post2351546

post #4. like a lot of people on this board, you fall back on the Constitution or Bill of Rights when it suits you, but lack the intellectual integrity when it doesn't.

[King Crimson]

and it ain't about hate.

[Okla-homey]

this thread already exists. you wanna deny that you are pretty much ha ha about the constitution so long as it suits your definition of "citizen":



http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2351546#post2351546

post #4. like a lot of people on this board, you fall back on the Constitution or Bill of Rights when it suits you, but lack the intellectual integrity when it doesn't.

Question: How long do you believe slavery would have lasted in this country if a popular vote of the citizenry had been required to make it illegal throughout the republic?

Fast forward to the twentieth century. How long would much of this country have remained racially segregated if a popular vote of the citizenry had been required to end it?

Sometimes, leaders need to do the right thing whether the people want it or not. That's not crazy talk or anti-government speech. Its just a fact. And there are also some things the government does the people don't need to know about.

To sum it up, I think we should vote for guys we trust to do the right thing because we think they have good judgement and character. Then, let them do their job. If they make a hash of things, elect someone to take their place. If they break the law, they should have to answer in the courts.

But this notion that the folks need to know about everything government does is foolish and inefficient.

[Chuck Bao]

I'm not a constitution or legal expert. Complex issues and complex thinking are not my forte, I admit. I think in absolute terms and maybe that is wrong, but I'm there thinking that.

I think that all men and women are created equal.

I've traveled around the world and the more I travel and the more people I meet the more I think that all men and women, born in whatever country, are the same and should have a say in politics and their own destiny. Democracy isn't the answer, but it is the best we have.

We have the most knowledgeable, educated population in the history of the planet.

The last decade has seen an unprecedented growth in wealth in the history of the world, most of which was in Asia.

This is the hope and dream of the capitalism system that the American dream is not just the American dream.

In this new world reality, capitalism relies on democracy and democracy relies on capitalism.

Talk about by-passing democracy and there will be a backlash. I don't want that.

[Okla-homey]

I'm not a constitution or legal expert. Complex issues and complex thinking are not my forte, I admit. I think in absolute terms and maybe that is wrong, but I'm there thinking that.

I think that all men and women are created equal.

I've traveled around the world and the more I travel and the more people I meet the more I think that all men and women, born in whatever country, are the same and should have a say in politics and their own destiny. Democracy isn't the answer, but it is the best we have.

We have the most knowledgeable, educated population in the history of the planet.

The last decade has seen an unprecedented growth in wealth in the history of the world, most of which was in Asia.

This is the hope and dream of the capitalism system that the American dream is not just the American dream.

In this new world reality, capitalism relies on democracy and democracy relies on capitalism.

Talk about by-passing democracy and there will be a backlash. I don't want that.

You guys must know we don't actually have a "according to Hoyle" democracy in the US. We've never had pure democracy in this country. We don't even have a constitutionally guarenteed federal "right" to vote. What we have is a Constitution that guarentees people can't be denied the vote by a state based on their race, gender, or some other arbitrary criteria adopted with the intent to discriminate.

We have a republican democracy, distinguishable from pure republics and pure democracies, because we have free and open debate and consensus building, or "deal-making," prior to our representatives' votes on bills.

In fact, an awful lot of Congressional "deal-making" goes on beyond the view of the folks. Most of it by "staffers" who aren't elected and aren't accountable to anyone but the congressmen who hired them. Inefficient? Yes. Does it work? Mostly.

One of the things that has occurred to me during this China-fest we're currently witnessing is the fact that totalitarian states which choose to embrace a degree of capitalism have an inherent advantage over the republican democracies.

To wit, if the Chinese Politburo (only about six people who matter) decides to move in a particular direction, 1.5 billion Chinese people march off smartly in that direction. IMHO, that is probably the greatest advantage the Chinese have. The other one is 1.5 billion people who will do what they're told for very low pay. I would like to know just how much the quality of life has improved for a typical Chinese person out in the provinces.

I don't think any American would trade our system for that of China no matter how wealthy some Chinese become. I like our klunky inefficient system because it makes possible a degree of freedom enjoyed by individual Americans still unparalled in world history.

[Chuck Bao]

The thing, Homey, is that the world isn't static. It's a changing. Just as capitalism is changing the modern face of China, our world is changing too. There are threats against our “way of life” and most of these threats are internal and not external.

The fact that we don’t have a pure democracy in the US is pretty much a side issue. On local and state levels, we do have representation and democracy. Some national level officials aren’t elected, but their boss is. And we have a say in that.

I will never, ever buy into the fact that I’m too stupid and ignorant to know what the federal government is doing.

If you are saying that it is okay to mislead Americans, I have to say that I do not agree.

If anyone is on the fence about who to vote for in the November elections, this should be the kicker.

We need someone who respects our freedoms and liberty, not someone who says it is better that you don’t know.

[Okla-homey]

The thing, Homey, is that the world isn't static. It's a changing. Just as capitalism is changing the modern face of China, our world is changing too. There are threats against our “way of life” and most of these threats are internal and not external.

The fact that we don’t have a pure democracy in the US is pretty much a side issue. On local and state levels, we do have representation and democracy. Some national level officials aren’t elected, but their boss is. And we have a say in that.

I will never, ever buy into the fact that I’m too stupid and ignorant to know what the federal government is doing.

If you are saying that it is okay to mislead Americans, I have to say that I do not agree.

If anyone is on the fence about who to vote for in the November elections, this should be the kicker.

We need someone who respects our freedoms and liberty, not someone who says it is better that you don’t know.

you're mistating my opinion. Government shouldn't mislead the folks, unless its very necessary to do so. Like the Manhattan Project. OTOH, people don't need to know every detail of what the government does. I've been on the receiving end of that when nosey congresspeople tried to crawl up our butts with a magnifying glass just to make points with the folks back in the district.

It wastes time, money and puts lives at risk. At some point, folks just need to trust the people who have been put in charge. For the most part, that's worked pretty well for over 200 years.

Even the Iraq campaign. The donks took over Congress on a platform of ending our involvement in Iraq. But that was just political BS as we've all seen. They're no closer to pulling the plug on Iraq than they were the day they won their "mandate."

Why? Because they know in their hearts we need to be there and know we've turned the corner. But they can't admit that to their constituents. They merely used the issue to gain a foothold among folks who fondly remember that whole insipid hippie era of the 60's/70's.

In fact, I think BHO realizes we need to stay engaged now too -- although he won't be able to admit it to his base. They don't wanna be tagged as the party of cut-n-run now that things are looking up -- made possible by brave men who know WTF they are doing and don't need any "adult supervision" by Congress.

[Curly Bill]

Government shouldn't mislead the folks, unless its very necessary to do so. Like the Manhattan Project.

Speaking of the Manhattan Project, this is an excellent book I recently read:


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VNY5D7CFL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

[Okla-homey]

another interesting bit of government misleading the folks involved the 1916German sabotage of a US arsenal in NY harbor. The government knew full well Germans did it, but Woodrow Wilson was running for re-election on a peace ticket.

http://www.njcu.edu/programs/jchistory/Pages/B_Pages/Black_Tom_Explosion.htm

[Chuck Bao]

Ummm, are you like Catholic and going with the infallible church? How about Manifest Destiny? In other words, do you think God is leading us? If not, who is?

Could you admit if ever there is a case that the commander-in-chief led our troops unnecessarily into harm’s way?

Do you believe one can support our fine young men and women serving in our armed forces and disagree with a war agenda?

If you believe that some things can’t be released in public, what exactly would that entail? Water boarding and other forms of torture? Spying on foreigners? Spying on Americans? Monitoring all email and internet postings? At what point would you concede that it is more about us than them?

How much faith do you have that “the powers that be” are using the information for our own good?

[Chuck Bao]

Are you seriously suggesting that the Manhattan project and the development of nuclear weapons should be the model protocol for everything that precedes it? If that is the case, let's just forget about accountablity and budget.

[Okla-homey]

Are you seriously suggesting that the Manhattan project and the development of nuclear weapons should be the model protocol for everything that precedes it? If that is the case, let's just forget about accountablity and budget.


of course not. But it is an example of something kept from the folks, indeed deliberately lied to them about, that turned out quite well.

[Okla-homey]

see below


Ummm, are you like Catholic and going with the infallible church? How about Manifest Destiny? In other words, do you think God is leading us? Yes I do. The fact this country survived the first 90 years of its existence as a nation against the incredible odds it faced is inexplicable otherwise. If not, who is?

Could you admit if ever there is a case that the commander-in-chief led our troops unnecessarily into harm’s way? Of course. Here's three examples. The Mexican War of the late 1840's was a bald-face land grab. The southern half of the country was led unneccesarily into harms way in 1861 versus the northern half during the Civil War. The Spanish American war of the 1890's was another bald-faced land grab.

Do you believe one can support our fine young men and women serving in our armed forces and disagree with a war agenda? I don't know of any "agenda" other than national security, tin foil hatters to the contrary.

If you believe that some things can’t be released in public, what exactly would that entail? Water boarding and other forms of torture? Spying on foreigners? Spying on Americans? Monitoring all email and internet postings? At what point would you concede that it is more about us than them? Have you ever held any form of government administered security clearance? If you have, surely you must be capable of answering your own question.

How much faith do you have that “the powers that be” are using the information for our own good? That's just it, at some point, we must trust our government to do the right thing. There is no practical alternative.

[Chuck Bao]

Thank you for answering my questions, Homey.

On some of your points, I agree. On others, I think that we all should be questioning and skeptical and that should never be viewed as unpatriotic, un-American or tinfoil hatters.

[Okla-homey]

Thank you for answering my questions, Homey.

On some of your points, I agree. On others, I think that we all should be questioning and skeptical and that should never be viewed as unpatriotic, un-American or tinfoil hatters.

You are of course correct. Calm, reasoned, constructive skepticism is healthy. OTOH, the in-your-face, "Bush lied people died!", "No blood for oil!" and/or "911Truth.org" crowd haven't really accomplished anything other than muddying the waters and making it more difficult for the guys at the tip of the spear to do the job they've been deployed to perform.

That said, I admit I tend to come on pretty strong on this issue. I was professionally nurtured in an environment that placed great value on the sentiment one should "lead, follow, or stay the heck out of the way." Now, I realize that sentiment, taken to the extreme, morphed into a failed defense for a lot of Nazi war criminals. But in 23 years in uniform, I was never asked to do anything about which I had a scintilla of ethical, moral or legal reservation.