Just joking about the TIDE TURNING

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Just when the republicans were starting to gain some traction, the fools in the Senate go and do it again. Congrats, dems, on your new-found absolute power:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121815293390922431.html?mod=Election2008_Opinion

[StoopTroup]

Not one of the five Republicans in the Gang is facing a tough election this year. That's the sort of security that leads to bad decisions. And theirs is the sort of thinking that could leave Republicans in a permanent minority.



Maybe they see the big picture.

That the GOP is gonna get pummelled and they might as well strenghten their own positions for now.

I'm not saying it's going to happen...just maybe what these five think might happen.

Politics is such a nasty business.

[soonersn20xx]

Rush I think you actually may be part of the problem, rather should I say your type of attitude. Political partisanship and single-minded thinking in trying to divide and conquer is one of the reasons nothing ever gets done in Washington.

If compromises can be made and it's good for the American people, then I really don't see a downside.

[GottaHavePride]

Rush I think you actually may be part of the problem, rather should I say your type of attitude. Political partisanship and single-minded thinking in trying to divide and conquer is one of the reasons nothing ever gets done in Washington.

If compromises can be made and it's good for the American people, then I really don't see a downside.

Correct. It's no longer about what's best for the country, it's about your side "winning".

[StoopTroup]

Correct. It's no longer about what's best for the country, it's about your side "winning".

Agreed.

Posturing and what committee your on...making budgets and saying that you reduced them when your actually spending even more...

It's all pretty sickening.

I blame the GOP for all of it. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

Listen, bucko, if I can't destroy my enemies and hear the lamentation of their women, what's the point?

Not a whole lot of compromise in my platform of rounding up all gun owners, implanting them with babies genetically engineered from gay marriages, and then forcing them to have late-term abortions. Except for me.

[sooner n houston]

Rush I think you actually may be part of the problem, rather should I say your type of attitude. Political partisanship and single-minded thinking in trying to divide and conquer is one of the reasons nothing ever gets done in Washington.

If compromises can be made and it's good for the American people, then I really don't see a downside.

Pardon me, but I believe it is people like you whom are a big part of the problem. Try reading the article and see what this bill does. Let me help you out, see if you can comprehend this:

"That's because the plan is a Democratic giveaway. New production on offshore federal lands is left to state legislatures, and then in only four coastal states. The regulatory hurdles are huge. And the bill bars drilling within 50 miles of the coast -- putting off limits some of the most productive areas. Alaska's oil-rich Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is still a no-go.

The highlight is instead $84 billion in tax credits, subsidies and federal handouts for alternative fuels and renewables. The Gang of 10 intends to pay for all this in part by raising taxes on . . . oil companies! The Sierra Club couldn't have penned it better. And so the Republican Five has potentially given antidrilling Democrats the political cover they need to neutralize energy through November."

Get it now?

[StoopTroup]

Wow.

They are truely evil.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Pardon me, but I believe it is people like you whom are a big part of the problem. Try reading the article and see what this bill does. Let me help you out, see if you can comprehend this:

"That's because the plan is a Democratic giveaway. New production on offshore federal lands is left to state legislatures, and then in only four coastal states. The regulatory hurdles are huge. And the bill bars drilling within 50 miles of the coast -- putting off limits some of the most productive areas. Alaska's oil-rich Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is still a no-go.

The highlight is instead $84 billion in tax credits, subsidies and federal handouts for alternative fuels and renewables. The Gang of 10 intends to pay for all this in part by raising taxes on . . . oil companies! The Sierra Club couldn't have penned it better. And so the Republican Five has potentially given antidrilling Democrats the political cover they need to neutralize energy through November."

Get it now?Our leftist Sooonerfans were just saying "thank you" in their own, inimitable way.

[Frozen Sooner]

Personally, I think it's people like Carrot Top that are the problem.

[soonersn20xx]

I did have a caveat that if the compromise was good for the American people, this particular issue can be debated above is fine. I'm just tired of issues being used for political purposes and gaining of power rather than for the good of the whole.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I did have a caveat that if the compromise was good for the American people, this particular issue can be debated above is fine. I'm just tired of issues being used for political purposes and gaining of power rather than for the good of the whole.The whole point is the compromise bill is a stinker deluxe, that is a cave to the global warming(democrat) crowd, and the 5 republicans involved seem to think that caving to the enemy is what their constituents want. Compromise isn't so great when your side gets virtually nothing you want. It's sheer delusional lunacy on the part of the 5 republican senators.

[Jerk]

What would be hilarious is this:

Maryland passed a law after 2000 that says all their delegates go to the winner of the national popular vote. So, take the other 49 states and let's say Brack wins the electorial vote, but barely loses the popular vote. Maryland, where Brack Hussien will no doubt have won, has to turn their delegates over to McCain, thereby tipping the electorial vote to the elephants! OMG, their panties would be bound so tight it'd pull their *** through their mouths. What a riot this would be!!!

[soonersn20xx]

If by getting what you want is unregulated offshore drilling, why are proponents unable to prove how this is going to relieve the price at the pump in the forseeable future.

To me, this is just trojan horse being used by the Republicans to help big oil make even more money. When 70% of the American public is buying into this, it really brings to light how far dumb-downed we have become. Using the economic hardship of average consumers in this way is dispicable.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If by getting what you want is unregulated offshore drilling, why are proponents unable to prove how this is going to relieve the price at the pump in the forseeable future.

To me, this is just trojan horse being used by the Republicans to help big oil make even more money. When 70% of the American public is buying into this, it really brings to light how far dumb-downed we have become. Using the economic hardship of average consumers in this way is dispicable.Everything you said is wrong or misguided, bubba!

[Jerk]

If by getting what you want is unregulated offshore drilling, why are proponents unable to prove how this is going to relieve the price at the pump in the forseeable future.


If demand stays the same, yet supply goes up, we will see lower prices. It's simply economics, you know. Besides, do you want to continue to be dependent on Hugo Chavez and Ahkmed Imanutjob for for your energy needs?

Go green. Ride a bicycle, ride a horse, or walk. Don't be a hypocrite. Oil companies receive about 5 to 7 cents profit per gallon of gas sold, and they control 8% of the world's oil. The rest is controlled by Governments. Think about that for a minute and let it soak in. Maybe you're smart enough to figure out how stupid you are? But I doubt it.

[Rogue]

Soonersn20xx,

Yer doin' fine. Keep it up.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Soonersn20xx,

Yer doin' fine. Keep it up.Is he true to the MoveOn.org talking points?

[Jerk]

Soonersn20xx,

Yer doin' fine. Keep it up.


Yeah, keep it up buddy! Maybe next he'll tell you why the average plebian can't be trusted to own a gun.

[Rogue]

Is he true to the MoveOn.org talking points?

Naw, he was working on an original thought. You should try it sometime.

[soonersn20xx]

Btw buddy, I believe in gun ownership but nice try to segue into a smearing of me personally. What's next, screaming libtard to avoid intellectual debate?

Your energy solution policy is hoping to flood the market with more supply so the price will go down? Why not address why the price went up to begin with, the value of the dollar has decreased. Now I know this may be hard for some of you to mentally grasp, but when the money in your pocket has less value to someone your are buying something from........then it takes more of it to purchase the same amount.

Now I admit demand has gone up to add to the rise in costs, but considering where demand levels will be by the time this offshore oil hits the market.......we will be lucky if the supply/demand ratio is at where it is now. As silly as the republicans tried to make out proper inflation of tires as a energy policy, so is the single mindedness in thinking we can drill ourselves out of crisis.

[JohnnyMack]

If demand stays the same, yet supply goes up, we will see lower prices. It's simply economics, you know. Besides, do you want to continue to be dependent on Hugo Chavez and Ahkmed Imanutjob for for your energy needs?

Go green. Ride a bicycle, ride a horse, or walk. Don't be a hypocrite. Oil companies receive about 5 to 7 cents profit per gallon of gas sold, and they control 8% of the world's oil. The rest is controlled by Governments. Think about that for a minute and let it soak in. Maybe you're smart enough to figure out how stupid you are? But I doubt it.

If the gubmint allows offshore drilling tomorrow and says any oil company can drill anywhere they want you might see a slide in what the speculators bid for oil in the short term, but as global demand continues to rise and then you factor in the cost of the gubmint subsidies that will be handed out to the oil companies (your tax dollars) alongside the investment that the oil companies themselves will be putting into research, development, construction, infratstructure, increased refining capacity, etc. you probably aren't likely to see a statistically significant drop in the price you and I pay at the pump when it's all said and done.

Me, I say we increase funding for nuclear power, sure some folks will get killed here and there, but how many people died in coal mining accidents in 1900 versus how many die today? We just gotta get better at it. Then, we blast the spent rods into outer space.

[soonersn20xx]

Then, we blast the spent rods into outer space.
I once thought that was feasable then the shuttle disaster made me think that might not be such a good idea. ;)

[JohnnyMack]

Quit being a coward, we gotta take some risks sometime.

[tommieharris91]

If demand stays the same, yet supply goes up, we will see lower prices. It's simply economics, you know. Besides, do you want to continue to be dependent on Hugo Chavez and Ahkmed Imanutjob for for your energy needs?

Go green. Ride a bicycle, ride a horse, or walk. Don't be a hypocrite. Oil companies receive about 5 to 7 cents profit per gallon of gas sold, and they control 8% of the world's oil. The rest is controlled by Governments. Think about that for a minute and let it soak in. Maybe you're smart enough to figure out how stupid you are? But I doubt it.

It's simple economics that is driving down the price of oil right now. When it is clear that demand is falling, fundamentals will take over and the price will fall.

And ExxonMobil (for example) has a 7% profit margin. Which means they're not making money hand-over-fist, Iran, Venezuela, and Brazil are.

[Frozen Sooner]

It's simple economics that is driving down the price of oil right now. When it is clear that demand is falling, fundamentals will take over and the price will fall.

And ExxonMobil (for example) has a 7% profit margin. Which means they're not making money hand-over-fist, Iran, Venezuela, and Brazil are.

Wait, you're saying that state-owned industries are capable of turning a massive profit above what private companies can? ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Warning to all thread participants:

Please tone down the insults and personal slurs.

[mdklatt]

The Gang of 10 intends to pay for all this in part by raising taxes on . . . oil companies!

Oh what a load of horse****. The oil industry is already one of the most subsidized industries, and possibly even the most. But now somebody wants to take away some of their government cheese and give it to somebody else and they cry foul.

Not that I expect actual facts from a WSJ editorial, but I bet those "tax increases" are actually reversals of tax breaks given to the oil industry. Remember 10 years ago when Oklahoma raised the state gasoline tax to help keep the oil industry afloat? Is that still in effect? Would anybody be surprised if it was? Just a few months ago, some nutter in the Oklahoma house proposed a bill, the "Protect the Oil Industry" act or something like that, calling for--you guessed it--tax breaks for the oil industry. Apparently they're struggling right now in this soft economy. :rolleyes:

[r5TPsooner]

Pardon me, but I believe it is people like you whom are a big part of the problem. Try reading the article and see what this bill does. Let me help you out, see if you can comprehend this:

"That's because the plan is a Democratic giveaway. New production on offshore federal lands is left to state legislatures, and then in only four coastal states. The regulatory hurdles are huge. And the bill bars drilling within 50 miles of the coast -- putting off limits some of the most productive areas. Alaska's oil-rich Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is still a no-go.

The highlight is instead $84 billion in tax credits, subsidies and federal handouts for alternative fuels and renewables. The Gang of 10 intends to pay for all this in part by raising taxes on . . . oil companies! The Sierra Club couldn't have penned it better. And so the Republican Five has potentially given antidrilling Democrats the political cover they need to neutralize energy through November."

Get it now?

BINGO

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm just throwing something out here...

For six years, we had an oil-friendly Republican President, a Republican-controlled Senate where one of the most powerful members was a pro-oil Republican from Alaska, and a Republican controlled House where one of the most powerful members was a pro-oil Republican from Alaska. Why wasn't ANWR opened then?

[r5TPsooner]

I did have a caveat that if the compromise was good for the American people, this particular issue can be debated above is fine. I'm just tired of issues being used for political purposes and gaining of power rather than for the good of the whole.

Obama giving all Americans his book deal monies is a good idea too but I don't exactly see him suggesting doing that in his platform.

Why do Liberal Democrats hate capitalism and companies/people that make money so badly?

Two words: Jealousy & Greed

[mdklatt]

I
And ExxonMobil (for example) has a 7% profit margin. Which means they're not making money hand-over-fist

Just 7% of a brazillion dollars a second is still a lot of money. Why the focus on profit margin as a percentage anyway? If the market price of something you produce doubles overnight, you're making twice as much money without any appreciable increase in costs, right? I bet the salary of the janitors at ExxonMobil isn't pegged to the price of a barrel. I'm sure they're stuck making $80k/year no matter what.

[r5TPsooner]

I'm just throwing something out here...

For six years, we had an oil-friendly Republican President, a Republican-controlled Senate where one of the most powerful members was a pro-oil Republican from Alaska, and a Republican controlled House where one of the most powerful members was a pro-oil Republican from Alaska. Why wasn't ANWR opened then?

The price of gasoline was still reasonable?

Republicans quit acting like Republicans.

[r5TPsooner]

Note to self, I must stay out of political threads.

They raise my BP higher than it is already.:D

[tommieharris91]

Just 7% of a brazillion dollars a second is still a lot of money. Why the focus on profit margin as a percentage anyway? If the market price of something you produce doubles overnight, you're making twice as much money without any appreciable increase in costs, right? I bet the salary of the janitors at ExxonMobil isn't pegged to the price of a barrel. I'm sure they're stuck making $80k/year no matter what.
I focus on profit margin because it is really low for oil companies. By comparison, tech companies such as Apple, Google, and Microsoft have profit margins around 25%. Let's tax them for gouging their customers, too.

[soonersn20xx]

Why do Liberal Democrats hate capitalism and companies/people that make money so badly?
I wouldn't know, but I don't agree on market manipulation and policies that make the rich richer at the expense of the common man. Which is exactly why the gap between the have and have nots has increased so dramatically the last 7 years.

I support true capitalism in which everyone flourishes, not government biased policies to fleece the poor.

[Chuck Bao]

Oil companies receive about 5 to 7 cents profit per gallon of gas sold, and they control 8% of the world's oil. The rest is controlled by Governments. Think about that for a minute and let it soak in. Maybe you're smart enough to figure out how stupid you are? But I doubt it.

I doubt those numbers.

I don't know what you mean by control. In most of the world, governments do indeed own all mineral rights. But, since governments can't explore or produce, they open tracts up for competitive bidding of private oil companies and their own national oil company. And in many cases, these national oil companies are privatized and listed on the stock market and owned by private investors, probably including your mutual fund.

That brings up a point that I have been arguing. There are tracts open for bidding, but the oil companies want it all opened up and quickly to the point that there is no competitive bidding. The state needs to get the best deal possible because that oil belongs to its citizens.

I'm also doubting on the 5 to 7 cents profit per gallon figure. E&P company accounting is difficult to understand and they do take all the tax breaks possible on exploration expenses. I still think that number is unbelievably low given current crude prices.

If you mean refineries, they are certainly making more than 5 to 7 cents. In Asia, the Gross Refinery Margin should average about $16/barrel in 2Q08, well above 10%.

Then the retailers get a margin, normally a very small one, on top of that. But, that is like a franchise business and the oil companies just want to ensure off-take from their refineries.

[mdklatt]

I focus on profit margin because it is really low for oil companies. By comparison, tech companies such as Apple, Google, and Microsoft have profit margins around 25%. Let's tax them for gouging their customers, too.

How heavily subsidized are Apple and Microsoft? Do they produce something that is damaging the environment without any consequences?

[JohnnyMack]

Warning to all thread participants:

Please tone down the insults and personal slurs.

**** off dip ****.

[JohnnyMack]

Obama giving all Americans his book deal monies is a good idea too but I don't exactly see him suggesting doing that in his platform.

Why do Liberal Democrats hate capitalism and companies/people that make money so badly?

Two words: Jealousy & Greed

McCain and his wife are worth over 100 million. Maybe they could cough up some of their jack?

[mdklatt]

Why do Liberal Democrats hate capitalism and companies/people that make money so badly?

Two words: Jealousy & Greed


Let me turn that broad generalization around on you. Why do Conservative Republicans worship capitalism and making money so strongly?

Two words: Selfishness & Greed


The Republicans claim to be the party of responsibility, but they're really dropping the ball. They fail to recognize (or simply don't care about) the long-term consequences of short-term greed. Increasing oil production so we can save $0.50/gallon now is going to have consequences later (or not much later at all the way things are going in the Arctic right now). Government handouts--er, "stimulus payments"-- and lower taxes so that we can buy a new TV now are going to have consequences later.

[mdklatt]

I support true capitalism in which everyone flourishes, not government biased policies to fleece the poor.

This argument (which I agree with in principal) always gets put in moral terms, but there's a practical aspect as well that always gets overlooked. Republicans seem to think that employment drives the economy, so hey, let's do everything we can to benefit business. Well guess what? Without customers, there will be no business. An accumulation of wealth at the top is self-defeating in the long run, because "trickle down" economics is a fallacy.

[r5TPsooner]

I wouldn't know, but I don't agree on market manipulation and policies that make the rich richer at the expense of the common man. Which is exactly why the gap between the have and have nots has increased so dramatically the last 7 years.

I support true capitalism in which everyone flourishes, not government biased policies to fleece the poor.

OK, here we go again. By your terminology what does one have to make (married couple) to be rich? Shoot me a number? 150k, 175k, 200k, 225k, 250k, more?

Shoot me a number for a married couple please.

[r5TPsooner]

Let me turn that broad generalization around on you. Why do Conservative Republicans worship capitalism and making money so strongly?

Two words: Selfishness & Greed


The Republicans claim to be the party of responsibility, but they're really dropping the ball. They fail to recognize (or simply don't care about) the long-term consequences of short-term greed. Increasing oil production so we can save $0.50/gallon now is going to have consequences later (or not much later at all the way things are going in the Arctic right now). Government handouts--er, "stimulus payments"-- and lower taxes so that we can buy a new TV now are going to have consequences later.

I had a long response written out but I hurt your feelers last time so, I'll just say this and keep it simple. The stimulus checks were nothing but handouts which I was no part of. I believe in Capitalism because it's what made this country great and if someone gets rich because of it, then I'm happy for that person or persons.

I believe in drilling in this country because we need to. I also believe in using of vast supply of coal and nuclear energy to makes us energy INDEPENDENT. Unfortunately, big ears is more concerned with what oil companies are making than he is in solving any real problems our country faces. Big ears wants to give out another hand out just like the idiot in the White House did with the Chinese, err I mean stimulus package money.

[soonersn20xx]

OK, here we go again. By your terminology what does one have to make (married couple) to be rich? Shoot me a number? 150k, 175k, 200k, 225k, 250k, more?

Shoot me a number for a married couple please.Actually I am referring to a higher tax bracket than those. Try to read this if you can, http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2008.pdf

[r5TPsooner]

Soonersn20xx,

Yer doin' fine. Keep it up.

:rolleyes:

[r5TPsooner]

Actually I am referring to a higher tax bracket than those. Try to read this if you can, http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2008.pdf

NO, that's a cop out media made answer! What's your figure?

[Frozen Sooner]

Final warning:

Next time someone calls someone stupid in this thread it's going to be locked.

[SoonerBorn68]

r5TP, he won't answer you because he's a know-it-all college student. His utopian "gonna fix the world" attitude will go away when momma quits paying for his rent/tuition/life.

[soonersn20xx]

NO, that's a cop out media made answer!By your own admission, maybe political threads aren't good for you. I gave you a link showing how a transfer of wealth has been accomplished over the last 7 years and you shrug it off.

[Frozen Sooner]

OK, that's it.