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View Full Version : Sustained success breeds outrageous expectations



JLEW1818
8/7/2008, 02:00 PM
CHICAGO -- The Ohio State record books reveal that legendary coach Woody Hayes won nearly 76 percent of his games, 13 Big Ten titles and three national championships.

But if you believe the expectations surrounding Ohio State's football team each season, you might think Hayes won much more often.

"The general feeling you have at Ohio State is you're expected to win every game," Buckeyes coach Jim Tressel said. "It's like Woody never lost a game."

Oklahoma's Bob Stoops might feel like he's never won a bowl game -- or the 2000 national championship -- after being scorned for much of the past five seasons for his team's failure in BCS bowl games.

"We've been in six Big 12 championships and we won five of them," Stoops said. "We are doing something right."

But is it enough at schools such as Ohio State and Oklahoma, where sustained success breeds outrageous expectations? The Buckeyes and Sooners are scrutinized more than most schools. Even USC, which has produced three of the past six Heisman Trophy winners and has littered the NFL with its former players, doesn't seem to be under such a powerful microscope.

The Trojans played for at least a share of the national championship for three straight seasons from 2003-05, winning an Associated Press title the first year and a BCS title a year later. But USC coach Pete Carroll wasn't heavily criticized after the Trojans lost to Texas 41-38 in the 2006 Rose Bowl, a game in which his late-game strategy might have cost his team a national championship. Most people believed the Trojans were just beaten by a great player, Texas quarterback Vince Young.

USC seemed to get a free pass even after it was upset by Stanford 24-23 last season, a stunning loss that ultimately knocked the Trojans out of the national championship race.

In a city consumed with so much, Los Angeles doesn't seem to live and die with the Trojans each Saturday. The smog-filled sky doesn't fall after each loss. As a result, Carroll doesn't face quite the same pressure as coaches at such schools as Ohio State and Oklahoma, where State U seems to be the only team that matters.

USC's lofty expectations don't seem to be as overwhelming, either. Late last month, when the Trojans were selected as a unanimous choice to win their seventh Pac-10 championship in a row, Carroll said, "It's cool. It's a beautiful thing."

Things couldn't be more beautiful at Ohio State -- or so it would seem. Tressel has won 82 percent of his games, four Big Ten championships and the 2002 national title. He reversed the Buckeyes' losing streak against rival Michigan and has reigned over the Big Ten like few other coaches before him.

But as Ohio State opens another season with national championship aspirations, it has become the butt of jokes and, for many college football fans, is Example A for why the BCS system of determining a national champion isn't working. After winning 23 games the past two seasons, the Buckeyes were embarrassed by SEC schools in two straight BCS championship games.

Florida beat Ohio State 41-14 in 2006, and LSU whipped the Buckeyes 38-24 in '07.

For the Buckeyes, just earning a chance to win a national championship isn't good enough anymore. Finishing second simply isn't good enough.

"Sometimes we're held to a higher standard than other schools," Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins said. "It's good because you're in the spotlight and get a lot of attention. It's hard because the expectations are always so high. That's Ohio State's tradition."

Tressel believes most people, particularly the media, don't appreciate the difficulty in just reaching the BCS championship game.

"When you're covering the game, everyone is there," Tressel said. "It wasn't that hard. They got on a plane and went there and their job is to write about it. How hard was it to get there? It was no different than getting to any other game. To the people that cover it, it wasn't hard. To the X-number of people that have never been in it, they think it's next to impossible."

In each of the past two seasons, Tressel has learned that winning a second national championship is difficult.

"Does that bother me?" Tressel said. "I like to analyze our shortcoming as much as anybody does. I happen to think we're capable of anything. I love to try to get there."

Most college football fans love to beat up the Buckeyes -- and the Big Ten Conference -- for losing on college football's biggest stage. Ohio State is 0-9 against SEC schools in bowl games. Big Ten teams lost badly to USC in the past two Rose Bowls (Illinois in '08, Michigan in '07).

So after Ohio State seemed so overwhelmed in the past two BCS championship games, it was criticized for playing in a weak conference. Not only are the Buckeyes expected to carry the flag for their school and state, but they've also become the face of the Big Ten.

"Should that paint a picture of our whole conference? I don't think so," Tressel said. "But it also makes me feel disappointed that our performance in two championship games brushes with a wider brush. I don't think it's fair. But what I think and what you think doesn't matter. What happens in the games is what matters."

The Buckeyes have won three consecutive Big Ten championships and have lost only two of their past 24 games against conference foes. For many fans outside the Big Ten, it seems too easy.

"Maybe we should put some people in our shoes," Ohio State quarterback Todd Boeckman said. "It's tough going through the Big Ten. It's brutal. Teams come at you each and every week and they're always tough, hard-nosed football games. It's a very, very tough thing to do."

Tougher than most people believe, if you ask the Buckeyes.

"When you're getting talked bad about and hated on and stuff, you've got to be doing something right for people to be talking about you," Buckeyes linebacker James Laurinaitis said. "If you're just a mediocre team, people aren't going to talk about you. People are going to have their own opinion. Hopefully, people in Big Ten country will stick up for the Big Ten. I think the Big Ten is talked about in more of a negative light than it should be. It's a terrific conference and a first-class conference. I truly believe that."

And you better believe that -- fair or not -- nothing short of holding up the crystal trophy in Miami on Jan. 8, 2009 will curtail the criticism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/preview08/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=3523214

JLEW1818
8/7/2008, 02:02 PM
Big Ten country is worthless.

Ohio State RB Beanie Wells will be on college football live at 230.

badger
8/7/2008, 02:47 PM
Big Ten country is worthless.

Not entirely, sir. You're bashing my birth state when you call it "worthless," mind you, as well as some other out-of-stater Sooners on here. :mad:

As such, please remember that Ohio State also won against a Miami team that was declared just a year earlier "The best ever" and as such, Big 10 country isn't entirely worthless.

You must also remember that while Big 10 ambassadors in the BCS bowl have not been too impressive lately, overall they have had a fairly good showing in other bowls.

Last year's Capital One Bowl, featuring OMG HEISMAN SOPHOMORE TIM TEBOW was won by Big 10 rep Michigan Wolverines - 41 over the Florida Gators - 35. This was like a home game for the Gators, too.

In the Alamo Bowl, Penn State Nittany Lions beat the Aggies in their own backyard, 24-17.

Recent history also shows Big 10 victories over name schools. Ohio State beat Big 12 champ Kansas State in 2003, 35-28. Minnesota beat Oregon the same year in the Sun Bowl, 31-30. As long as I'm defending home turf here, Wisconsin has beaten SEC's Arkansas (2007 Capitol One, 17-14), SEC's Auburn (2006 Capitol One, 24-10), Big 12's Colorado (2002 Alamo Bowl, 31-28), Pac 10's UCLA (2000 Sun Bowl, 21-20) and THREE Rose Bowls before that from 1994-2000.

So anyways, I must say, it is very popular to bash the Big 10, but I would rather save the extreme "worthless" caliber bashing until we get back on a bowl winning streak.

soonermix
8/7/2008, 02:56 PM
it comes down to losing on the big stage when people have a long time to dwell on that fact i.e tosu in the last two championship games and us in the last 4 bcs games.

JLEW1818
8/7/2008, 02:58 PM
Yep. At least we make it that far, sure I'd love to win them, can't win them all.

badger
8/7/2008, 03:22 PM
Yep. At least we make it that far, sure I'd love to win them, can't win them all.

Ummm... so now it's good enough for us to go, but not good enough for Big 10 teams like tOSU? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Let's be consistent bedowngraders :D

Sooner_09
8/7/2008, 03:54 PM
When tOSU gets blown out two years in a row, ya know it just gets old:D

JLEW1818
8/7/2008, 04:07 PM
Ummm... so now it's good enough for us to go, but not good enough for Big 10 teams like tOSU? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Let's be consistent bedowngraders :D

NO I was defending us and Ohio State, uhh can believe I just said that. I'm saying at least those 2 teams are consistent bcs contenders.

trey
8/7/2008, 04:17 PM
When tOSU gets blown out two years in a row, ya know it just gets old:D

It gets very old. At least when we lost two title games in a row only one was a blowout.:D

soonerspudman
8/7/2008, 06:04 PM
Sheesh, it's time for everyone, especially the media to give the BCS thing a rest. The horrid, naked truth is that if you're not in the title game then the remaining BCS games are just exhibition games played at the end of the season instead of the beginning. The players are wise to this, for OU if you're not in the championship game, the season is done after the Big 12 championship game. Let's get a real playoff and make these games actually count for something ( I know, not in my lifetime).

soonersn20xx
8/7/2008, 06:16 PM
Let's be honest, the specific criticism should be refined to the effort and performance of the teams the last 5 years in the bowls. It's just not the losing, it's about how we lost.

To counter that criticism with, "you can't win em all" or "point to conference championships" is a dodge.

JLEW1818
8/7/2008, 08:22 PM
I bet Stoops wins 2 BCS championships before any other coach. At this point no coach can say he has been more successful in BCS championship games.

Championship Games, at least 2 appearances.
Stoops 1-2
Carroll 1-1
Tressel 1-2
Bowden 1-2 ?

It seems like the numbers are never above 500 win it comes to Championships. Yes, other coaches have won more bowl games, and yes I would have loved to won every bowl game we have played this decade.

SoonerDood
8/7/2008, 08:24 PM
[hairGel] That article is inakrut! We've had no measurable success, but our fans/alums still expect Championships and BCS Bowls! And they'll be genuinely surprised when we go 6-6 again![hairGel]

OUSuperman
8/12/2008, 01:12 AM
I've enjoyed following the parallels between Stoops and Tressel over the past few years, and this article got me to thinking about the similarities of their first seven seasons. Based on what I found around Wikipedia, I saw this...

Bob Stoops
Born in Ohio
21st OU coach
4 Big 12 Titles
75-16 Overall Record
47-9 Conference Record
4-3 Bowl Game Record
2 BCS Bowl Game Wins
3 National Title Games
1 National Title (Program's 7th)
1 Heisman Winner
Back to back National Title Losses
1st year - 7-5 (5-3) lost bowl game on last second field goal
2nd year - 13-0 (8-0) won national title over favored team from Florida (not in our eyes ;) )
3rd year - 11-2 (6-2) won bowl game after losing final game of regular season

Next four seasons include an 8-4 season capped with a bowl victory ('05), a BCS victory ('02), and back to back national title losses, one with an undefeated team blown out in the title game (apparently '04 :confused: ) and another with a one-loss team losing to LSU in the Superdome in New Orleans ('03), all with a cumulative record of 44-9 (28-4).

Stoops went 5-2 vs UT bringing the Red River Rivalry to: UT 56 OU 39 Tied 5

Jim Tressel
Born in Ohio
22nd OSU coach
5 Big 10 Titles
73-16 Overall Record
45-11 Conference Record
4-3 Bowl Game Record
3 BCS Bowl Game Wins
3 National Title Games
1 National Title (Program's 7th)
1 Heisman Winner
Back to back National Title Losses
1st year - 7-5 (5-3) lost bowl game on last second field goal
2nd year - 14-0 (8-0) won national title over favored team from Florida
3rd year - 11-2 (6-2) won bowl game after losing final game of regular season

Next four seasons include an 8-4 season capped with a bowl victory ('04), a BCS victory ('05), and back to back national title losses, one with an undefeated team blown out in the title game ('06) and another with a one-loss team losing to LSU in the Superdome in New Orleans ('07), all with a cumulative record of 41-9 (26-6).

Tressel went 6-1 against Michigan to bring their rivalry to: Mich 57 OSU 41 Tied 6

Probably more to it, but it's late and I'm tired. What are the odds OSU gets upset in a couple BCS games the next couple seasons? :rolleyes:

HopeSpringsEternal
8/12/2008, 02:55 AM
Let's be honest, the specific criticism should be refined to the effort and performance of the teams the last 5 years in the bowls. It's just not the losing, it's about how we lost.

To counter that criticism with, "you can't win em all" or "point to conference championships" is a dodge.

Easy, clear logical thinking about how OU has performed for the past 5 years (especially on defense) is frowned upon by the homers. You'd think mediocrity is a byword for excellence around here.

olevetonahill
8/12/2008, 03:12 AM
Let's be honest, the specific criticism should be refined to the effort and performance of the teams the last 5 years in the bowls. It's just not the losing, it's about how we lost.

To counter that criticism with, "you can't win em all" or "point to conference championships" is a dodge.

No sir Its about Losin
WE lost Most of em didnt mean a damn thing
Move on Nothein here to see :D