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Okla-homey
8/3/2008, 07:53 AM
Yay!:D


Poll finds few state voters for Obama

By RANDY KREHBIEL World Staff Writer
8/3/2008
Last Modified: 8/3/2008 3:51 AM

Oklahomans may not be excited about this year's presidential campaign, but most of them know who they're going to vote for.

And it's not Barack Obama.

The latest Oklahoma Poll, a statewide survey of 750 likely voters conducted July 19-23, found little support — and some outright hostility — for the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

Republican John McCain, meanwhile, attracted broad, if sometimes tepid, support to lead Obama by 32 percentage points, 56 percent to 24 percent.

Seventy-one percent said they are firm in their decisions.

"Oklahomans have their minds made up and they aren't going to change come hell or high water, no matter what," said poll consultant Al Soltow, vice president for research at the University of Tulsa.

A trend, noted in national polls, of a substantial core of dedicated supporters for Obama is not evident in the Oklahoma Poll.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080803_16_A1_spancl643304

Flagstaffsooner
8/3/2008, 08:00 AM
"What you talkin' about Willis?"
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/jesse-jackson/jesse-jackson-mug-shrunk.jpg

sooner n houston
8/3/2008, 08:17 AM
But but don't them dumb okies know ... Change and things like that! :D

StoopTroup
8/3/2008, 08:18 AM
No OkieBamaBillies? :D

King Crimson
8/3/2008, 08:24 AM
1. if McCain can't win OK, he's in trouble.
2. Obama as of July 7 (when Henry and Boren invited him to come, IIRC) has not even been in the state, nor spent any real campaign money here.
3. one of HRC's largest margins of victory in the primary was in OK; so, i'm not sure there's anything generalizable as "proof" of anything in this TW stat--except that this is a state McCain should win. though a coalition of Oklahomas and North Dakotas is not going to be enough to win the big prize.

StoopTroup
8/3/2008, 08:26 AM
750 voters? lol.

Statisticians crack me up.

Okla-homey
8/3/2008, 08:33 AM
750 voters? lol.

Statisticians crack me up.

ST,
You know our people. Do you really think the results aren't representative? I think we both know the World too. Do you think if there was a way to have conducted this poll to make it a positive thing for BHO, they would not have done it?

In the end, based on the way the electoral system works, a vote for BHO in Oklahoma is sheer futility. That's why BHO hasn't come here and hasn't spent a dime here.

I think JSM will win OH, PA and MI and that will be enough. By a hair.

achiro
8/3/2008, 11:12 AM
I'm pretty sure most of the Oklahoma Obama supporters post on this site.

Whet
8/3/2008, 11:21 AM
I'm pretty sure all of the Oklahoma Obama supporters post on this site.
fixed!

tommieharris91
8/3/2008, 11:36 AM
fixed!

According to that pole, it's true!

SoonerInKCMO
8/3/2008, 11:38 AM
ST,
In the end, based on the way the electoral system works, a vote for BHO in Oklahoma is sheer futility. That's why BHO hasn't come here and hasn't spent a dime here.

Which is why the electoral college needs to be trashed. :pop:

Whet
8/3/2008, 12:19 PM
Which is why the electoral college needs to be trashed. :pop:

yes, I want the inner city voters of NYC, Chicago, Detroit, LA, and SF determining the next president! NOT

Whet
8/3/2008, 12:32 PM
New magazine for the MSM "journalists"!
http://newsbusters.org/static/2008/07/JournoBeat.jpg

King Crimson
8/3/2008, 12:44 PM
yah know Homey, i find the tenor of this thread a little odd. given that you've made it clear that the people don't deserve truth--or at least only the relativism, official dissimulations and palatable pablum appropriate to their station in society. yet, here, you want to imply some "essential" wisdom born-from-the-horny-handed lay person of Oklahoma....who's "common sense" is also a "good sense".

yet, in your view, aren't these people also the small people without access to real political knowledge, by hopeful design (for their own protection, and to shield the Republic from their irrationality? the tyranny of the masses?). that's what you say before. they are the dupes of manufactured ideology (to protect res publica) yet you want to praise them here? odd.

in the other thread and if you continue to follow the Kristol/Strauss line where before you more or less assented that "populism" is unsafe but politically useful if information (truth) is handled correctly....you are eventually arguing for a kind of vanguard party idea...where truth is not subject to the light of publicity or critical, populist reason. it's a very anti-Enlightenment idea you are working there.

Okla-homey
8/3/2008, 01:04 PM
yah know Homey, i find the tenor of this thread a little odd. given that you've made it clear that the people don't deserve truth--or at least only the relativism, official dissimulations and palatable pablum appropriate to their station in society. yet, here, you want to imply some "essential" wisdom born-from-the-horny-handed lay person of Oklahoma....who's "common sense" is also a "good sense".

yet, in your view, aren't these people also the small people without access to real knowledge (for their own protection, and the shield the Republic from their irrationality? the tyranny of the masses?). that's what you say before. they are the dupes of manufactured ideology (to protect res publica) yet you want to praise them here? odd.

in the other thread and if you continue to follow the Kristol/Strauss line where before you more or less assented that "populism" is unsafe but politically useful if information (truth) is handled correctly....you are eventually arguing for a kind of vanguard party idea...where truth is not subject to the light of publicity or critical, populist reason. it's a very anti-Enlightenment idea you are working there.

You're drilling too deep my friend. In this case, the innate good sense of our people has made it possible for them to spot a fraud. Granted, in this case, he's an amiable, intelligent, affable, well-spoken fraud, but a fraud nevertheless. Maybe in ten or fifteen years after BHO's had a chance to make a record of service in the Senate, or run for and won a Governor's mansion, he could deserve another look. But from a state legislature to the White House in a span of four years? That's just crazy talk.;)

Thus, here in Oklahoma, all this equates to the fact people who wish to help BHO get elected, won't be able to do it with their vote. That's also due to the great wisdom of the Founders of the republic who knew it was dangerous to elect the chief executive based entirely on the results of the popular vote. Dems should "get" that part. Afterall, that is precisely the principle on which their "superdelegate" nomination scheme is based.

SoonerStormchaser
8/3/2008, 01:08 PM
I like tater tots and JSM! ;)

Okla-homey
8/3/2008, 01:13 PM
Which is why the electoral college needs to be trashed. :pop:


Cool. just get 2/3ds of the House and Senate to agree, then get 3/4's of the states to ratify that amendment and you're in business. But don't hold your breath getting any of the little or lightly populated states to agree -- which is kinda the kiss of death because you need a bunch of them to make it happen.

StoopTroup
8/3/2008, 01:31 PM
palatable pablum.


We just got back from brunch at The Green Onion...

The pablum was terrific. :pop:

King Crimson
8/3/2008, 08:26 PM
You're drilling too deep my friend. In this case, the innate good sense of our people has made it possible for them to spot a fraud. Granted, in this case, he's an amiable, intelligent, affable, well-spoken fraud, but a fraud nevertheless. Maybe in ten or fifteen years after BHO's had a chance to make a record of service in the Senate, or run for and won a Governor's mansion, he could deserve another look. But from a state legislature to the White House in a span of four years? That's just crazy talk.;)

Thus, here in Oklahoma, all this equates to the fact people who wish to help BHO get elected, won't be able to do it with their vote. That's also due to the great wisdom of the Founders of the republic who knew it was dangerous to elect the chief executive based entirely on the results of the popular vote. Dems should "get" that part. Afterall, that is precisely the principle on which their "superdelegate" nomination scheme is based.

only a partially acceptable answer. there is no such thing as "innate" good sense, common sense, or whatever....nothing is more ideological than "common sense". political knowledge is created knowledge, it's not like grass growing. the appeal to "natural" metaphors are one of the oldest and most suspicious of all rhetorical tropes.

you need to realize that what Kristol and Strauss are talking about is closer to Leninism (vanguard party) than the protections in the electoral safeguards from the Founders re: what DeToqueville or Mill refer to as "the tyranny of the majority".

though, i agree the "super-delegate" system is unseemly, given that it seems to promote careerism and opportunism at the expense of vox populi.

Whet
8/3/2008, 08:31 PM
the messiah:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8958/obama16lk3.jpg

Dumb Okies don't know he has been chosen!

Curly Bill
8/3/2008, 09:23 PM
Cool. just get 2/3ds of the House and Senate to agree, then get 3/4's of the states to ratify that amendment and you're in business. But don't hold your breath getting any of the little or lightly populated states to agree -- which is kinda the kiss of death because you need a bunch of them to make it happen.

The above is why you will never ever get rid of the electoral college we now have. Lightly populated states are not going to vote to give up the comparative advantage it gives them.

...and quite frankly I'm fine with that.

Rhino
8/4/2008, 03:25 PM
1. if McCain can't win OK, he's in trouble.
2. Obama as of July 7 (when Henry and Boren invited him to come, IIRC) has not even been in the state, nor spent any real campaign money here. 1. Yep. The Republican nominee would basically have to be Satan for him to not get Oklahoma.

2. Actually, Obama was here for a couple hours in March for a fundraiser.

http://www.oklahomarock.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/coyneobama.jpg

BigRedJed
8/4/2008, 03:54 PM
http://www.8secondchallenge.com/soonerfans/normbama.jpg

soonerscuba
8/4/2008, 04:31 PM
I don't know how to put this lightly, so I will just be blunt.

Oklahomans don't have common sense to keep OU grads in state, yet have some divine power of wisely choosing a president. I don't need to look any further than James Mountain Inhofe to know that Oklahomans know dick about national politics.

Okla-homey
8/4/2008, 05:11 PM
I don't know how to put this lightly, so I will just be blunt.

Oklahomans don't have common sense to keep OU grads in state, yet have some divine power of wisely choosing a president. I don't need to look any further than James Mountain Inhofe to know that Oklahomans know dick about national politics.

mebbe so, but it looks like the rest of the country is catching on too. BHO is leaking support.


http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Scott D
8/4/2008, 05:57 PM
mebbe so, but it looks like the rest of the country is catching on too. BHO is leaking support.


This post brought to you by Okla-homey for John McCain. I'm voting for him, and I'll bludgeon you with posts about why Obama is baaaaad until you do. John McCain approves this message with the permission of Karl Rove.

fixed

mdklatt
8/4/2008, 06:42 PM
mebbe so, but it looks like the rest of the country is catching on too.

Possibility: The "Obama is an elitist meme" is catching on.

Conclusion: Americans are dumb. Obama is positively middle class by McCain/Hensley standards. If elitism refers to Obama's Ivy League education, *cough* George Bush *cough*. Wait...just how the hell is Obama an elitist? He's the son of an immigrant who was raised by a single parent, and got into Harvard Law School where he excelled. So I'm guessing this is somehow a bad thing?


Possibility: The "Obama is Paris Hilton meme" is catching on.

Conclusion: Americans are...I'm just at a loss for words if that's the reason. Karl Rove hates America.


Possibility: More oil, more oil, more oil, more oil!

Conclusion: Never underestimate the American voter's support of short-term gain at the expense of long-term consequences. And how sad is it that I hope this is the real reason?

Harry Beanbag
8/4/2008, 07:51 PM
I knew it would happen, but I still can't quite believe the depths some people will stoop too. If you're not voting for Obama it's because you are stupid and/or racist. :rolleyes:

mdklatt
8/4/2008, 08:44 PM
I knew it would happen, but I still can't quite believe the depths some people will stoop too. If you're not voting for Obama it's because you are stupid and/or racist. :rolleyes:

I assume that's directed at me. If someone is voting against Obama because of the Paris Hilton commercial, yes, he is an idiot.

Scott D
8/4/2008, 10:34 PM
I knew it would happen, but I still can't quite believe the depths some people will stoop too. If you're not voting for Obama it's because you are stupid and/or racist. :rolleyes:

my view on it, is that if you need commercials on television/radio to tell you who to vote for and why, then you just might be stupid. And you should know me well enough to know that it goes for both candidates advertising. :)

mdklatt
8/4/2008, 10:45 PM
my view on it, is that if you need commercials on television/radio to tell you who to vote for and why, then you just might be stupid. And you should know me well enough to know that it goes for both candidates advertising. :)

I have no idea what commercials Obama is running. No swing-state campaigning down here. I only hear about McCain's commercials becuase they're so ridiculous. I assume the Paris Hilton commercial is Karl Rove's doing?

Okla-homey
8/5/2008, 05:22 AM
fixed


and its working too. Afterall, since I started my one man campaign for JSM here in Oklahoma, he has gained a 35 point edge!;)

Scott D
8/5/2008, 07:13 AM
and its working too. Afterall, since I started my one man campaign for JSM here in Oklahoma, he has gained a 35 point edge!;)

that's like saying that McDonald's has a greater market share in a town full of 300 lbs people over a fruit smoothie shop, and it's all because of you.

Scott D
8/5/2008, 07:17 AM
I have no idea what commercials Obama is running. No swing-state campaigning down here. I only hear about McCain's commercials becuase they're so ridiculous. I assume the Paris Hilton commercial is Karl Rove's doing?

Well being that I live in a "battleground" state, both candidates have made multiple appearances in the state over the last month and a half. McCain's ads are borderline silly. The main Obama ad I've seen starts off with a voiceover with a picture of McCain saying that McCain is using his stumps and ads to blame Obama for the rise in gas prices. Then it goes into Obama's key points. It's just as silly in my opinion, but it's what the current system has created so we have to live with it. Kind of how like the National DNC list applies to everything except for campaign calls.

Harry Beanbag
8/5/2008, 07:36 AM
my view on it, is that if you need commercials on television/radio to tell you who to vote for and why, then you just might be stupid. And you should know me well enough to know that it goes for both candidates advertising. :)


I don't necessarily disagree with that. My view goes a little further. If you don't already know who you're voting for you probably shouldn't be voting at all. Really, it doesn't take that long to figure it out. The amount of money wasted on these multi-year campaigns is astounding.

swardboy
8/5/2008, 08:05 AM
Exactly. The fact that there are so many "undecideds" so deep into a campaign season scares me. While McCain isn't my dream candidate, he has enough of a difference from Barack that it astounds me there so many Americans vacillating.

Equally disturbing is the fact that we are a nation so divided. We've been witnessing a titanic struggle of worldviews since the '92 elections.

Condescending Sooner
8/5/2008, 11:02 AM
I don't know how to put this lightly, so I will just be blunt.

Oklahomans don't have common sense to keep OU grads in state, yet have some divine power of wisely choosing a president. I don't need to look any further than James Mountain Inhofe to know that Oklahomans know dick about national politics.

I know a LOT of Oklahoman's that have more common sense than you ever dreamed about. Just because you think that every one who is not in awe of Obama is an idiot, doesn't make it true.

Condescending Sooner
8/5/2008, 11:03 AM
Well being that I live in a "battleground" state, both candidates have made multiple appearances in the state over the last month and a half. McCain's ads are borderline silly. The main Obama ad I've seen starts off with a voiceover with a picture of McCain saying that McCain is using his stumps and ads to blame Obama for the rise in gas prices. Then it goes into Obama's key points. It's just as silly in my opinion, but it's what the current system has created so we have to live with it. Kind of how like the National DNC list applies to everything except for campaign calls.


Why are you so enamored with Obama? You said a while back you could be considered conservative on most issues. Obama is about as anti-conservative as you can get.

JohnnyMack
8/5/2008, 11:05 AM
I would argue that Oklahoma has more idiots per capita than many other states I've spent time in.

BigRedJed
8/5/2008, 11:08 AM
It's pretty sad when A FREAKING NORM HEAD can't overcome the political drivel.

BigRedJed
8/5/2008, 11:09 AM
Of course, 2004 was similar, if I remember right.

soonerscuba
8/5/2008, 11:22 AM
I know a LOT of Oklahoman's that have more common sense than you ever dreamed about. Just because you think that every one who is not in awe of Obama is an idiot, doesn't make it true.
You struggle with reading comprehension don't you? It's ok, I am giving you the opportunity to go back and take a look at what I said, then come back with something remotely addressing what I said.

Need help? That's ok, see, I never mentioned anything about Barack Obama. He will win Illinois by +20%, and it would be lunacy to say "Wow, look at all them Illinoisans and their folksy common man sense", same applies to a state that claims Jim Inhofe, or any state for that matter. The vast majority of Americans have no business voting anyway, they fall for ads comparing a Columbia/Harvard educated senator to Paris Hilton, or believe T. Boone Pickens over the Dept. of the Navy regarding Kerry's Purple Hearts. I would bring up DNC sponsored attack ads, but we are too spineless to do any real damage and moveon.org is embarrassing enough.

Frankly, I was proud of Oklahoma for nominating JSM in the primaries, I fully expected Huckabee to win.

Lastly, you don't know me, you have never met me, and cannot speak to my common sense, so try not to act like you do, mmkay?

BigRedJed
8/5/2008, 11:43 AM
Who's condescending now, beeyotch!??!

Hamhock
8/5/2008, 11:49 AM
BBTL

Condescending Sooner
8/5/2008, 12:49 PM
You struggle with reading comprehension don't you? It's ok, I am giving you the opportunity to go back and take a look at what I said, then come back with something remotely addressing what I said.

Need help? That's ok, see, I never mentioned anything about Barack Obama. He will win Illinois by +20%, and it would be lunacy to say "Wow, look at all them Illinoisans and their folksy common man sense", same applies to a state that claims Jim Inhofe, or any state for that matter. The vast majority of Americans have no business voting anyway, they fall for ads comparing a Columbia/Harvard educated senator to Paris Hilton, or believe T. Boone Pickens over the Dept. of the Navy regarding Kerry's Purple Hearts. I would bring up DNC sponsored attack ads, but we are too spineless to do any real damage and moveon.org is embarrassing enough.

Frankly, I was proud of Oklahoma for nominating JSM in the primaries, I fully expected Huckabee to win.

Lastly, you don't know me, you have never met me, and cannot speak to my common sense, so try not to act like you do, mmkay?

My reading comprehension is fine. You and others take shots at Oklahoman's quite a bit, and it gets old. Most Oklahoman's I know are educated, have common sense, and are humble. The fact that you think most Oklahoman's fit into the mold you project paired with a lot of your other posts gives some indications as to how I can judge your common sense.

Condescending Sooner
8/5/2008, 12:51 PM
Where did the people who are in awe of Obama get their information? It certainly wasn't from his voting record, or at least I hope not.

JohnnyMack
8/5/2008, 01:02 PM
Why is if someone is voting for Obama they're "in awe" of him? Are you "in awe" of McCain?

Echoes
8/5/2008, 01:17 PM
Egh. A poll saying McCain has a large lead here is not surprising. It's Oklahoma. He could really, really, really mess up bad and would still win Oklahoma with ease. That's no surprise.

I doubt it has anything to do with 'sense', no matter what kind of sense you are talking. More then likely, its because we are Oklahoma. We are conservative, pretty much always have been and always will be. Obama won't spend money here because it's not even a contest. He could probably drop in tens of millions and make the race closer, but it's not really worth it.

Furthermore, I wouldn't use the fact that we will vote for McCain over Obama as a judge of how adept Oklahoman's are at picking elected officials. It doesn't take a very far glimpse into the past to notice we have voted in some downright idiots who have did their best to ruin this country.

JohnnyMack
8/5/2008, 01:30 PM
Furthermore, I wouldn't use the fact that we will vote for McCain over Obama as a judge of how adept Oklahoman's are at picking elected officials. It doesn't take a very far glimpse into the past to notice we have voted in some downright idiots who have did their best to ruin this country.

Why do you hate Gene Stipe...and Jim Inhofe...and David Walters...and Bill LaFortune?

Echoes
8/5/2008, 01:35 PM
lol Mack, I was speaking more in a larger light then just those guys :) However, I probably misstated it a little. I don't believe anyone we have elected has intentionally tried to ruin this country. I usually see the good in people, and I believe for the most part anyone we elect is doing their best to help us and America. However, it seems to rarely happen.

Rhino
8/5/2008, 01:39 PM
http://www.oklahomarock.com/SF/suttonormbama.jpg

Echoes
8/5/2008, 01:42 PM
That's so awesome.

Harry Beanbag
8/5/2008, 04:58 PM
I assume that's directed at me. If someone is voting against Obama because of the Paris Hilton commercial, yes, he is an idiot.

No, not necessarily at you. There are plenty here that fit the bill. ;)

I'm not going to defend McCain's campaign strategy? either. It's more pathetic than OSU's football program.

Scott D
8/5/2008, 05:57 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with that. My view goes a little further. If you don't already know who you're voting for you probably shouldn't be voting at all. Really, it doesn't take that long to figure it out. The amount of money wasted on these multi-year campaigns is astounding.

Well I can understand how many cases people may be on the fence in regards to a candidate when the 'race' begins. Especially with how often messages change for candidates based on who is front running, and who they're campaigning against. Certainly both candidates are running far different campaigns now than when they were attempting to secure their own party nomination.

As for the wasted money, that's why I continue to refuse to contribute that stupid $1 for political campaigns when I do my taxes.


Exactly. The fact that there are so many "undecideds" so deep into a campaign season scares me. While McCain isn't my dream candidate, he has enough of a difference from Barack that it astounds me there so many Americans vacillating.

Equally disturbing is the fact that we are a nation so divided. We've been witnessing a titanic struggle of worldviews since the '92 elections.

If our entire country was parroting a single political view, and a single political mantra we would be the USSR circa 1948. It's really pretty simple, there are those who think things are fine and should keep motoring along as they are, those who think things are pretty good but need a little fixing, and those who think that everything is ****ed and needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

I'd like to think that a person's experiences play a lot more into their political view than their upbringing, but in a country where a guy can sit in the Senate for 60 years because people vote for "name recognition" you can't expect logic to dictate how voting behavior is.

Besides, if there weren't different world views in this country, your boy Rush would have continued his life as a drifter in the world of audio entertainment.

Harry Beanbag
8/5/2008, 06:09 PM
Well I can understand how many cases people may be on the fence in regards to a candidate when the 'race' begins. Especially with how often messages change for candidates based on who is front running, and who they're campaigning against. Certainly both candidates are running far different campaigns now than when they were attempting to secure their own party nomination.

Heh. I went to see Swing Vote today and it basically revolves around how candidates will say anything to get elected, flip flops be damned. Core values don't really mean anything anymore in today's politics.



As for the wasted money, that's why I continue to refuse to contribute that stupid $1 for political campaigns when I do my taxes.


Me too.