Havok....

[StoopTroup]

I've been trying to figure out a way to make you a Moderator.

So far I've got nothin'....

Sorry. :pop:

[StoopTroup]

Just checking in to see if I've been banned.

[Sooner_Havok]

I trust your still working on this. :D

[Curly Bill]

If Havok is made a moderator I'm cancelling my sponsorship.

[olevetonahill]

If Havok is made a moderator I'm cancelling my sponsorship.

They dont make Libs a Mod ;)

[olevetonahill]

Er Mike is our token Lib , that is .:D

[Curly Bill]

They dont make Libs a Mod ;)

As it should be. ;)

[tommieharris91]

They dont make Libs a Mod ;)

Mike Rich is conservative. In other news, water is now dry and OSU athletics is in great financial shape.

[olevetonahill]

Mike Rich is conservative. In other news, water is now dry and OSU athletics is in great financial shape.

Glad you st8end that out :D

[CK Sooner]

Glad you st8end that out :D

I am a mod in disguise.

[CK Sooner]

NSFW

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Finn_MacCool/Moderators.jpg

[Sooner_Havok]

If Havok is made a moderator I'm cancelling my sponsorship.

Take you $10 and go to another board, see if we care ;)


They dont make Libs a Mod ;)

If I just admit to being a Lib, can I join your posse?

[Jerk]

We don't need another liberal mod.

[Frozen Sooner]

Mike Rich is conservative. In other news, water is now dry and OSU athletics is in great financial shape.

:D. Yeah, over the years I've progressively gotten more and more liberal.

Still own my guns though.

[Jerk]

:D. Yeah, over the years I've progressively gotten more and more liberal.

Still own my guns though.

I have to admit, you have been fair to me.

You used to be more of a libertarian. WTF happened?

[Frozen Sooner]

Short version or long version?

[Jerk]

Short version or long version?

Oh, hell, man.

What was it? Bush?

[Frozen Sooner]

Nah.

A lot of it had to do with what a scumbage Harry Browne turned out to be. I started to examine whether I truly thought that a third party-particularly the Libertarians-would ever make any kind of a difference. Plus, the Libertarians started espousing some contradictory views to serve their self-interest: namely, term limits. A true Libertarian should never endorse term limits, it goes against their entire ethos.

Anyhow, I've always been a civil libertarian. As a general rule, I find that the Democratic Party at least pays more lip service to the Bill of Rights than the Republicans do (though of course they're not perfect.)

If I could, I'd change the Democratic Party's general stance on gun control among other things-I just think there's fewer objectionable things on the left side of the aisle than on the right for the time being.

[Jerk]

Nah.

A lot of it had to do with what a scumbage Harry Browne turned out to be. I started to examine whether I truly thought that a third party-particularly the Libertarians-would ever make any kind of a difference. Plus, the Libertarians started espousing some contradictory views to serve their self-interest: namely, term limits. A true Libertarian should never endorse term limits, it goes against their entire ethos.

Anyhow, I've always been a civil libertarian. As a general rule, I find that the Democratic Party at least pays more lip service to the Bill of Rights than the Republicans do (though of course they're not perfect.)

If I could, I'd change the Democratic Party's general stance on gun control among other things-I just think there's fewer objectionable things on the left side of the aisle than on the right for the time being.

I see. I disagree with you but I can't point to a Republican party as an example of how a Republican party should govern that would be a good alternative to your party. I don't think that made sense. Sorry.

[Jerk]

I'm trying to say that the republican party should be center-right with a strong bent for libertarianism, individual rights, and local control. Not wacky libertarianism, but MYOB kind. You know, "You do your thing, I'll do mine," and "What works in NYC might not work in Oklahoma." I think we got away from that a long time ago.

[Frozen Sooner]

Hey, you never know. I'm behind the Democrats this cycle and I'm working hard for them. We'll have four to eight years to see how they do. Maybe they'll **** me off as much as the Republicans did over the last eight.

I probably come off a lot more liberal than I really am on here just because I tend to take arguments out to their conclusion. But I will proudly wear the label of liberal any day. Some of the greatest minds and people in history were liberals. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm trying to say that the republican party should be center-right with a strong bent for libertarianism, individual rights, and local control. Not wacky libertarianism, but MYOB kind. You know, "You do your thing, I'll do mine," and "What works in NYC might not work in Oklahoma." I think we got away from that a long time ago.

And I think that the Democratic Party should be center-left with that same strong bent for libertarianism of the mind your own business kind.

I think we might disagree a bit on what minding your own business means, though.

One of my favorite libertarian quotes is "Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose."

[Jerk]

One of my favorite libertarian quotes is "Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose."

Oh, yeah, I don't believe that people should do whatever they want to do if it affects others.

Smoke pot? Fine.

Smoke pot and drive on public road? GTFO

[Sooner_Havok]

I think my problem is that I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.

What are you if you like your guns, don't mind gay people, shy away from religion, but want limited government with fiscal responsibility?

[Curly Bill]

I think my problem is that I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.

What are you if you like your guns, don't mind gay people, shy away from religion, but want limited government with fiscal responsibility?

I think that makes you like me. :D

...so why do you like Obama though?

[Frozen Sooner]

I think my problem is that I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.

What are you if you like your guns, don't mind gay people, shy away from religion, but want limited government with fiscal responsibility?

Makes you a small-l libertarian. Unfortunately, the big-L Libertarian Party doesn't necessarily share your views.

[Sooner_Havok]

I think that makes you like me. :D

...so why do you like Obama though?

Palin mostly :(

Not saying I wasn't leaning Obama prior to his VP pick, but Palin sure as hell sealed the deal.

[Sooner_Havok]

Makes you a small-l libertarian. Unfortunately, the big-L Libertarian Party doesn't necessarily share your views.

I guess. A guy I work with says he is a Libertarian. Me and him don't see eye to eye on some stuff.

[Curly Bill]

Palin mostly :(

Not saying I wasn't leaning Obama prior to his VP pick, but Palin sure as hell sealed the deal.

You like your guns and yet are voting Obama?

...so you don't like them all that much huh? :P

[Jerk]

Palin mostly :(

Not saying I wasn't leaning Obama prior to his VP pick, but Palin sure as hell sealed the deal.

Even if McCain were to fall over dead, she wouldn't have a lot of power with that Democrat congress.

I mean, really, it's not like she can go to the Habanna Inn and tell the gays to stop ****ing each other. (I'm not saying you're gay...I'm just making an example)

[Frozen Sooner]

I guess. A guy I work with says he is a Libertarian. Me and him don't see eye to eye on some stuff.

Most big L Libertarians don't follow libertarianism out to its logical conclusions.

Most seem to think that anarchy is a libertarian state. It's not.

[Frozen Sooner]

You like your guns and yet are voting Obama?

...so you don't like them all that much huh? :P

You don't mind gays but you're voting for the woman who wants a constitutional amendment forbidding them to marry?

...so you don't like them that much, huh?

;)

[Sooner_Havok]

Most big L Libertarians don't follow libertarianism out to its logical conclusions.

Most seem to think that anarchy is a libertarian state. It's not.

That's pretty much what this guy argues. I always called myself a libertarian, but this cat said that since I wasn't some (some modifier) anarchist, I wasn't a libertarian.

[Curly Bill]

You don't mind gays but you're voting for the woman who wants a constitutional amendment forbidding them to marry?

...so you don't like them that much, huh?

;)

I don't mind them, but I'm not in favor of them "marrying."

...and I really don't like them at all, but as long as they mind their own business...

[Jerk]

You don't mind gays but you're voting for the woman who wants a constitutional amendment forbidding them to marry?

...so you don't like them that much, huh?

;)

She couldn't get that done with a democrat congress.

If Obama wants to ban guns, he might be able to find enough democrats to do it. There are certainly no republicans in the legislature to stand in the way.

[Chuck Bao]

Havok described my views perfectly. It looks like I'm a small "l" too.

I did vote for Obama because I want a responsible government. I want someone in charge to repair the damage caused by the Bush administration. I want a government with a realistic foreign policy and willing to deal with the problems in the world. I think we need someone to deal with this economic mess. McCain simply isn't giving the answers I'm looking for. And, Palin is giving answers that I simply don't like.

[Sooner_Havok]

You don't mind gays but you're voting for the woman who wants a constitutional amendment forbidding them to marry?

...so you don't like them that much, huh?

;)

I might add that my computer manufacture of choice has had this to say:


Apple is publicly opposing Proposition 8 and making a donation of $100,000 to the No on 8 campaign. Apple was among the first California companies to offer equal rights and benefits to our employees’ same-sex partners, and we strongly believe that a person’s fundamental rights — including the right to marry — should not be affected by their sexual orientation. Apple views this as a civil rights issue, rather than just a political issue, and is therefore speaking out publicly against Proposition 8.

:D :D

[Jerk]

I don't mind them, but I'm not in favor of them "marrying."

...and I really don't like them at all, but as long as they mind their own business...

I'm sort of the same way, but if a state like Vermont wants them to marry, then fine. If Oklahoma doesn't, then fine. I think liberals make the mistake of thinking that we actually care about what people do in their bedroom. I don't, and most people I know who are conservative feel the same way. Just keep the agenda out of the elementary schools, please.

[Sooner_Havok]

I don't mind them, but I'm not in favor of them "marrying."

...and I really don't like them at all, but as long as they mind their own business...

I'm not in favor of any state recognized marriages. Marriage is a charged term that has obvious religious implications. I always thought the state should recognize civil unions, and let the churches and the gods recognize marriages.


She couldn't get that done with a democrat congress.

If Obama wants to ban guns, he might be able to find enough democrats to do it. There are certainly no republicans in the legislature to stand in the way.


Only way to ban guns is with a constitutional amendment. If every state voted blue and we had an entire senate full of donks, 3/4 of states still would not ratify an amendment banning guns.

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't mind them, but I'm not in favor of them "marrying."

...and I really don't like them at all, but as long as they mind their own business...

Why are you not in favor of them "marrying?" Can't they say to you "I don't like you at all, but as long as you mind your own business..."?

Seriously, the whole gay marriage thing is just irksome. The only reasonable small-government reason I've heard for opposing it is that it "forces" people to recognize a legal arrangement between two people. Strangely, though, I have yet to hear any of those selfsame people argue for the right to refuse to recognize heterosexual marriage.

Just weird.

[Curly Bill]

We won't see an outright ban on guns, but under Obama you can expect to see as many "common sense" limits imposed as he can get passed.

[Jerk]

Only way to ban guns is with a constitutional amendment. If every state voted blue and we had an entire senate full of donks, 3/4 of states still would not ratify an amendment banning guns.

We came within one vote on the Supreme Court of losing that right this past summer.

Think about that. If 1 more justice would have sided with DC, then we would have lost a constitutional right by judicial decree.

[Sooner_Havok]

We want see an outright ban on guns, but under Obama you can expect to see as many "common sense" limits imposed as he can get passed.

I might go for that, but the SCOTUS ruling on the DC gun law seem to have set a precedent.

[Sooner_Havok]

We came within one vote on the Supreme Court of losing that right this past summer.

Think about that. If 1 more justice would have sided with DC, then we would have lost a constitutional right by judicial decree.

We didn't though, and precedent has now been set. For any court to reverse that ruling now would be a pretty long shot.

[Frozen Sooner]

I might go for that, but the SCOTUS ruling on the DC gun law seem to have set a precedent.

Oddly enough, it's the more liberal-leaning judges who tend to respect stare decisis more than the conservative-leaning ones.

[Jerk]

We want see an outright ban on guns, but under Obama you can expect to see as many "common sense" limits imposed as he can get passed.

Taxes are the way they will go.

[Sooner_Havok]

Oddly enough, it's the more liberal-leaning judges who tend to respect stare decisis more than the conservative-leaning ones.

Is kinda odd when you think about it. I'm sure Roe v. Wade has nothing to do with that. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

You know, Roe v. Wade isn't the controlling decision any longer.

[Sooner_Havok]

Taxes are the way they will go.

If they are going to tax my smokes and booze cause they might kill me, taxing guns seems about right. Mind you I think it is BS. Let me smoke and drink all I want!

[Sooner_Havok]

You know, Roe v. Wade isn't the controlling decision any longer.

I know, but them justices are old school man :D

[Jerk]

Oddly enough, it's the more liberal-leaning judges who tend to respect stare decisis more than the conservative-leaning ones.

I don't understand why you need stare decisis when you can just pick up the Constitution and read it.

I mean, on some issues where there is really no guidance from the Constitution or its amendments, then I understand. But if it's simple, like "You can't force people to worship God" why the need to go look up what the court said in 1934?

[Sooner_Havok]

I don't understand why you need stare decisis when you can just pick up the Constitution and read it.

I mean, on some issues where there is really no guidance from the Constitution or its amendments, then I understand. But if it's simple, like "You can't force people to worship God" why the need to go look up what the court said in 1934?

Because our constitution is silent on a lot of specific matters.

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't understand why you need stare decisis when you can just pick up the Constitution and read it.

I mean, on some issues where there is really no guidance from the Constitution or its amendments, then I understand. But if it's simple, like "You can't force people to worship God" why the need to go look up what the court said in 1934?

Because it's a good idea to have a consistent framework of common law with which to work. The Consititution, while the most amazing document ever written, doesn't cover every eventuality in a black and white manner.

[Chuck Bao]

Even if McCain were to fall over dead, she wouldn't have a lot of power with that Democrat congress.

I mean, really, it's not like she can go to the Habanna Inn and tell the gays to stop ****ing each other. (I'm not saying you're gay...I'm just making an example)

Seriously? Are you equivocating buying a gun and getting it off at Habanna Inn?

NTTIAWWE (E = either)

Yeah, besides all of the potential jokes, owning guns is like keeping the one you love. That’s pretty basic and should be a right.

[Sooner_Havok]

Because it's a good idea to have a consistent framework of common law with which to work. The Consititution, while the most amazing document ever written, doesn't cover every eventuality in a black and white manner.

Your's sounds better :(

[Jerk]

Because it's a good idea to have a consistent framework of common law with which to work. The Consititution, while the most amazing document ever written, doesn't cover every eventuality in a black and white manner.

That makes sense, but it could also be used to affirm a previous decision that was wrong.

[Sooner_Havok]

That makes sense, but it could also be used to affirm a previous decision that was wrong.

If enough people think that the SCOTUS got one wrong, then there can be an amendment made to the constitution to rectify the situation. But like I have said before constitutional amendments aren't easy, so it would have to be a ruling that A LOT of people think is VERY wrong.

[Jerk]

Well, this has been a healthy thread for me. I've calmed down a bit. Time to feed the dawgs, read the Bible, and lower the Stars and Bars.

[Sooner_Havok]

Well, this has been a healthy thread for me. I've calmed down a bit. Time to feed the dawgs, read the Bible, and lower the Stars and Bars.

So I can has my thread about me becoming a mod back? :D

[Jerk]

So I can has my thread about me becoming a mod back? :D

Yeah, just keep your ban hammer off me when I go into a rampage this November.

[PalmBeachSooner1]

Because our constitution is silent on a lot of specific matters.

It's silent on a lot of issues except for the concept of federalism. Not a single democrat proposal would ever be taken seriously if the court's would simply uphold federalism.

[Sooner_Havok]

Yeah, just keep your ban hammer off me when I go into a rampage this November.

Dude, I am back on the bottle, so my ban hammer will more than likely be lost most of the time.

[Curly Bill]

Dude, I am back on the bottle, so my ban hammer will more than likely be lost most of the time.

LMAO! :D

SPEK