Still a dead heat... [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

Okla-homey

8/1/2008, 06:15 AM

7/31/08 Gallup Daily: Obama 45%, McCain 44% Race returns to statistical tie

USA Election 2008 Gallup Daily Americas Northern America PRINCETON, NJ -- The race for the presidency has moved back into a statistical tie in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update of national registered voters, with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by just one percentage point, 45% to 44%.

So, you gotta ask; why? Clearly BHO is the greatest thing since Astroglide. He's young, cool and has a great outside jumpshot. How is this possible? JSM is old and not running much of a campaign. BHO should be ahead by at least ten points. I don't get it.

Or maybe, just maybe, the folks are smarter than BHO's media shills think.

Hope and Change. Big Rock Candy Mountain.

r5TPsooner

8/1/2008, 06:22 AM

King Crimson

8/1/2008, 06:56 AM

you people amaze me: nobody was more Big Rock Candy Mountain than Ronnie Reagan; but now, it's time to trot out the "political realism" angle.

and having a proto-neocon/leo strauss disciple Irving Kristol sig...which establishes the basic premise that the "noble lie" is the truth appropriate for the people. the govt has autonomy insofar as it acts on it's own at times when the people don't need to know the truth. does that sound familiar at all?

Obama seems to understand, politically, that the reality that is the global marketplace is not one that the US can bully....with a declining dollar, petrol economy dependence, and massive debt. i personally think it's time we have a prez who isn't in the pocket of Exxon/Mobil or the Saudis.

Okla-homey

8/1/2008, 07:08 AM

and having a proto-neocon/leo strauss disciple Irving Kristol sig...which establishes the basic premise that the "noble lie" is the truth appropriate for the people. the govt has autonomy insofar as it acts on it's own at times when the people don't need to know the truth. does that sound familiar at all?

Yes. In fact, it's appropriate. It may well be a Jack Nicholson cliche from an average movie, nevertheless, people don't need to know everytime someone takes a dump in DC, or inside the US diplomatic mission to Bolivistan. Afterall, far too many wouldn't understand, or care, if they received a Powerpoint briefing and were provided an outline in advance.

People generally elect a government to provide for their safety and to facilitate a climate in which they are afforded a reasonable shot at earning a living. Everything else is merely extra-constitutional gravy.

King Crimson

8/1/2008, 07:25 AM

Yes. In fact, it's appropriate. It may well be a Jack Nicholson cliche from an average movie, nevertheless, people don't need to know everytime someone takes a dump in DC, or inside the US diplomatic mission to Bolivistan. Afterall, far too many wouldn't understand if they received a Powerpoint briefing and were provided an outline in advance.

People generally elect a government to provide for their safety and to facilitate a climate in which they are afforded a reasonable shot at earning a living. Everything else is merely extra-constitutional gravy.

that's total BS.

the take a dump/government is so specialized the populus can't understand (better to be managed from above--Walter Lippman, the Great Society) is NOT the same as lies to secure what is more often than not a specialized class/economic interest masquerading as a national interest (ideology).

that same quote you use from Kristol is in the wiki page on the "noble lie".

LOL.

"extra-constitutional gravy"--this all says a lot about your "real" politics...which i've suspected for a long time.

Okla-homey

8/1/2008, 08:55 AM

that's total BS.

the take a dump/government is so specialized the populus can't understand (better to be managed from above--Walter Lippman, the Great Society) is NOT the same as lies to secure what is more often than not a specialized class/economic interest masquerading as a national interest (ideology).

that same quote you use from Kristol is in the wiki page on the "noble lie".

LOL.

"extra-constitutional gravy"--this all says a lot about your "real" politics...which i've suspected for a long time.

Oh please. Remember the Manhattan Project? How many "noble lies" do you think were told as cover for that dealio? Heck, HST didn't even know about it until after he was sworn-in as president.

To this day, the government "neither confirms or denies" the presence of nuclear weapons on any US installation.

And as far as Reagan being a Big Rock Candy Mountain guy like BHO, I was an adult during both RR adminstrations. I don't recall him ever advancing the notion folks should pay higher taxes so poor people could be given stuff. He was a "rising tide raises all boats" kinda guy. Now, if someone's dinghy has a self-induced hole in it, then they are probably entitled to a free government provided bailing bucket. That's it. If believing that means I'm some kind of sinister evildoer, then so be it.

Furthermore, the Constitution is, in essence, a compact creating the world's first economic common market. It must be viewed from that perspective to be properly understood.

TheUnnamedSooner

8/1/2008, 09:20 AM

meh, what do you guys know? You're just a bunch of electronic thugs ;)

JohnnyMack

8/1/2008, 10:31 AM

Q: Quick, name one thing that Obama stands for politically besides raising taxes and taking more of middle class America's earnings?

A: Who knows, he's too busy talking about his weird name and color of his skin to be bothered with such nonsense.

You either ignorant or a liar. Federal payroll taxes won't increase on the middle class under BHO's plan. If you make more than 250k a year they will. Your saying that he's going after the middle class is just bull****. Do your homework.

Scare tactic crap like this has been the Rove playbook for more than a decade now.

mdklatt

8/1/2008, 10:41 AM

If you make more than 250k a year they will. Your saying that he's going after the middle class is just bull****.

People making that much probably consider themselves "middle class". I don't know why, since that puts them well into the 95th percentile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States).

soonerscuba

8/1/2008, 10:46 AM

You either ignorant or a liar. Federal payroll taxes won't increase on the middle class under BHO's plan. If you make more than 250k a year they will. Your saying that he's going after the middle class is just bull****. Do your homework.

Scare tactic crap like this has been the Rove playbook for more than a decade now.
No, no, no. See, I will almost assuredly be making $250,000/y really, really soon as my job at the Citgo is really about to break for me. So, while you think that 13,000 a month is "rich" there are a lot of things to buy with that, and I wouldn't consider that rich, never mind the fact that the average household income is ~$50,000/y, but those people are lazy and don't work hard.

Also, nobody gave rosy scenarios for the future and flowery language better than Ronald Reagan.

JohnnyMack

8/1/2008, 11:02 AM

Hope and Change. Big Rock Candy Mountain.

What about the fact that McCain's proposed tax cuts combined with McCain's proposed budget leaves with a 1 trillion dollar deficit? Big rock candy what?

McCain said:
So why would you not think that if we stopped that increase in the size of government, in the form of a $1 trillion or so, that we can’t balance the budget?

Current discretionary spending is about 1.2 trillion. He wants to cut over 80% of the money out of that budget. Good luck with that. Lemme know how that plays out for you.

soonerscuba

8/1/2008, 11:10 AM

With a spell, wishes, and the amulet of righteousness military spending isn't government spending, IT'S MAGIC!!!!!!!

I love presidential elections, there are a lot of impossible promises made.

Tulsa_Fireman

8/1/2008, 11:14 AM

Please do.

Trim the fat. Thin the herd. Pry 'em off the teat. <insert reduction in government spending catchphrase here>.

That'd be great.

mdklatt

8/1/2008, 11:20 AM

Pry 'em off the teat.

You go first.

SouthFortySooner

8/1/2008, 11:25 AM

I don't make 250k/yr but the man who pays me does. Mess with his tax structure you mess with my livin. By the way, I get payed for doing real work, tiring, stressful work. I am entitled to my check. unlike the mall rats i saw in dallas last weekend with their hopes and dreams t-shirts.

mdklatt

8/1/2008, 11:29 AM

I don't make 250k/yr but the man who pays me does. Mess with his tax structure you mess with my livin.

He pays you out of his own pocket?

Fugue

8/1/2008, 11:30 AM

SouthForty is an illegal? :eek:

;)

mdklatt

8/1/2008, 11:32 AM

SouthForty is an illegal? :eek:

;)

Or a pool/lawn boy. :D

SouthFortySooner

8/1/2008, 02:03 PM

I loved me some "trickle down" economics. It is as obvious to me when the boss is makin money as it is to the bums wanten somthin for nothin when their gimme system suffers. Simple politics my friends. (we need a vote08 emoticon)

Tulsa_Fireman

8/1/2008, 05:04 PM

You go first.

So you're saying I'm on the government teat?

Jerk

8/1/2008, 05:11 PM

Have you liberals turned up your thermostat to 80°f today?

Your savior demands it. When you turn your A/C down to 72°, that means some poor 3rd world peasant has to leave his at 88°

The rest of the world isn't going to put up with this crap anymore, you capitalist imperialist pigs!!

Jerk

8/1/2008, 05:14 PM

Bri, where are you? Every time you eat another burger and gain 10 pounds, some poor African kid who is starving drops 10.

Tulsa_Fireman

8/1/2008, 05:17 PM

I farted.

Therefore I'm a contributor to ozone depletion.

Okla-homey

8/1/2008, 05:57 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mopkn0lPzM8

SicEmBaylor

8/1/2008, 06:14 PM

People generally elect a government to provide for their safety and to facilitate a climate in which they are afforded a reasonable shot at earning a living. Everything else is merely extra-constitutional gravy.

This is pretty much why your politics scares the ever loving bejesus out of me and why it's totally inconsistent with (small r) republican government.

I think you need to liberate yourself from the claim that you are a conservative and freely admit that you are really nothing more than a right-wing nationalist.

soonerscuba

8/1/2008, 06:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mopkn0lPzM8
I don't know if the "my opponent might have myriad of endorsements, millions upon millions of devoted followers, millions upon millions of campaign dollars, the ability to draw thousands of people to hear a platform, the ear of international leaders and a charming and solidly presidential character, but he's not the one you want" strategy is the best idea for McCain.

For a man with decades in politics he sucks at running a campaign.

Jerk

8/1/2008, 06:35 PM

Jerk

8/1/2008, 06:39 PM

I don't know if the "my opponent might have myriad of endorsements, millions upon millions of devoted followers, millions upon millions of campaign dollars, the ability to draw thousands of people to hear a platform, the ear of international leaders and a charming and solidly presidential character, but he's not the one you want" strategy is the best idea for McCain.

For a man with decades in politics he sucks at running a campaign.

Well, this has happened before in history, and it hasn't always turned out alright. I ain't comparing O'messiah to these other people, I'm just merely saying that it doesn't rubberstamp him as a good choice.

soonerscuba

8/1/2008, 07:26 PM

Well, this has happened before in history, and it hasn't always turned out alright. I ain't comparing O'messiah to these other people, I'm just merely saying that it doesn't rubberstamp him as a good choice.
I understand what you are saying, but from a campaign angle (not a political one) it's rarely a good policy to highlight your opponents strengths in an ad.

As for your second post may I ask you an honest question? Let's say the Walmarts want to open up a nuclear power plant, do you think that just because an individual, partnership or corporation has the means to build a nuclear reactor, they should be able without government intrusion?

AlbqSooner

8/1/2008, 08:09 PM

Thing about BHO is - well, he just doesn't look like those guys on the one and five dollar bills. WTF?? Where is his powdered wig???

Harry Beanbag

8/1/2008, 08:25 PM

I don't know if the "my opponent might have myriad of endorsements, millions upon millions of devoted followers, millions upon millions of campaign dollars, the ability to draw thousands of people to hear a platform, the ear of international leaders and a charming and solidly presidential character, but he's not the one you want" strategy is the best idea for McCain.

For a man with decades in politics he sucks at running a campaign.

If I didn't know any better, I wouldn't even know he was running a campaign. He's nearly invisible to the average Joe American right now.

bonkuba

8/1/2008, 10:05 PM

He pays you out of his own pocket?

I actually do.......yes.....pay my employees out of my own pocket since I own my own business.

I know what you were meaning but please understand that the small business man has a play here.......well at least for now. Believe me, it is getting harder and harder to make it with the cost of fuel, etc (we have many service trucks). If my taxes go up even more it will REALLY hurt us. The fact that one of our candidates openly states that my taxes will go up (and believes people somehow won't get it or understand in time) and is OK with the high gas prices (would have liked them to go up more slowly) makes a certain part of my body pucker up a little.......well that or well never mind :D :D

bonkuba

8/1/2008, 10:06 PM

Thing about BHO is - well, he just doesn't look like those guys on the one and five dollar bills. WTF?? Where is his powdered wig???

Stop playing the race card.....oh yeah sorry I am whitey.....can't say that ;) :D

Okla-homey

8/2/2008, 04:56 AM

This is pretty much why your politics scares the ever loving bejesus out of me and why it's totally inconsistent with (small r) republican government.

I think you need to liberate yourself from the claim that you are a conservative and freely admit that you are really nothing more than a right-wing nationalist.

How could I be one of those? I'm not even lathered up about "amnesty," or whatever you call it, for the millions who snuck in here. The way I see it, they're here, they're drinking our beer, so we might as well make them pay the cover charge. We aren't about to round-up 12 to 15 million people and march them back to Mexico, or Guatemala, or whatever hellhole they escaped from. What's more, even if we did, they would just sneak back in. Therefore, unless we have the stones to build concentration camps (which no one does thank goodness), I say get 'em on the tax rolls.

Better yet, and this is my ultimate fantasy; axe the current tax code and replace it with a 10% federal sales tax paid at the point of sale for everything purchased. That way, no dollar, even dollars earned and then spent by crooks, hookers, drug dealers and illegals, avoids taxation. This status quo income tax butterfly net misses countless bazillions spent in the clandestine economy that operates under the IRS radar.

Finally, it really doesn't matter what you think because your opinion doesn't matter until you man-up and become a productive member of society. It was a sad day when non-property owners were given the franchise. :texan:

LosAngelesSooner

8/2/2008, 04:57 PM

Vaevictis

8/2/2008, 05:29 PM

The fact that one of our candidates openly states that my taxes will go up (and believes people somehow won't get it or understand in time) and is OK with the high gas prices (would have liked them to go up more slowly) makes a certain part of my body pucker up a little.......well that or well never mind :D :D

LOL, as opposed to the candidate that says:

I won't raise taxes. And I'm only talking about income tax here, not social security. And in either case, I'm not really making a promise. All options are on the table.

Really, I don't see that much of a difference between the two. Sooner or later (and I'm betting sooner), it's going to come down to retirees getting a kick in the balls, or the average working tax payer getting it.

Given voting demographics, I'm not betting on the retirees taking the hit.

SouthFortySooner

8/2/2008, 07:45 PM

I've been avoiding these political threads this season because I thought they were full if ignorant and misleading statements on both sides of the argument. Thankfully this thread just reinforced my decision.

Some of the things you guys are saying are actually making me WANT to support Obama out of pure sympathy for all the BS you guys are saying.

I'm not and I won't and I'll still be behind McCain, but it really is embarrasing that some of you guys are on "our side."

You make me want to break out in a "an i'm proud to be an merican". Sorry to dissapoint. I could state my reasons for not voting for obamma in a much simpler version if you would like. You know, make it real black and white rather than using the flowery soliloquy's favored by some on the board. :(

StoopTroup

8/2/2008, 08:06 PM

You make me want to break out in a "an i'm proud to be an merican". Sorry to dissapoint. I could state my reasons for not voting for obamma in a much simpler version if you would like. You know, make it real black and white rather than using the flowery soliloquy's favored by some on the board. :(

I'm not sure I understand your black and white soliloquy.

Is this what you mean?

If so...I'm guessing your a Liberman Man? ;)

Mel Brooks would be proud.

vcZ9ku_wInw

Seriously...I hope that's not the reason. The Dude is really trying to overcome that stereotype IMO.

Tulsa_Fireman

8/2/2008, 09:32 PM

Wheah all de white wimmen at!?

bonkuba

8/2/2008, 10:44 PM

LOL, as opposed to the candidate that says:

I won't raise taxes. And I'm only talking about income tax here, not social security. And in either case, I'm not really making a promise. All options are on the table.

Really, I don't see that much of a difference between the two. Sooner or later (and I'm betting sooner), it's going to come down to retirees getting a kick in the balls, or the average working tax payer getting it.

Given voting demographics, I'm not betting on the retirees taking the hit.

When you're old though you can get into State Parks free though....yes??:D

OK....long night....I got nuttin':D :D :D

Tulsa_Fireman

8/2/2008, 10:45 PM

I found out that you can buy a season pass for day use ramp fees for Corps of Engineers lakes for 30 bucks.

That has nothing to do with anything.

Just thought I'd share.

mdklatt

8/3/2008, 02:37 PM

You go first.

Okay, I'll explain this. Everybody is perfectly willing to cut somebody else's government spending while at the same time refuses to acknowledge that they're eating government cheese, too. For example, everybody who drives is getting subsidized by the government, i.e. other taxpayers. Federal gas taxes don't even fully fund the highway trust fund, much less all the other indirect costs of fossil fuels. The FAA gets a large chunk of funding from the general fund, too. In fact, every single form of transportation in this country is heavily subsidized. Your best bet is to travel exclusively by freight railroad, since they're responsible for their own infrastructure. That's just the beginning. Who's getting more money from taxpayers--somebody on food stamps or a family sending their kids to public school?