Recession?

[Okla-homey]

Here's what I don't get.

We have yet to endure even one quarter with negative growth. I thought you had to have four quarters of negative growth for a recession.

Why does the media and certain pols insist we're in one? You know, "worst economy since the Great Depression" and all that crapola.

:pop:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Because the MSM will do anything to slam Bush and defeat the evil Repubs and put a liberal O-blah-ma in office.

[soonerscuba]

Because the media loves a disaster. Also, because growth is less than inflation, unless you use Bushnomics (which doesn't include fuel or housing costs towards inflation, fancy that). Things suck, but I think we are long ways from a bread line and the TVA.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Why does the media

There is no answer when a question starts off this way.

[Fraggle145]

I say we are in a recession because I personally have a lot less money to do the **** I want to do and am spending a lot more money on **** that I have to have, but dont want to spend it on.

The whole "growth" thing is just weird to me... because we have magic number out there that says our economy is growing we are supposed to be okay with it? Well yay for rich people, back here in the real word I can assure you I havent seen any growth.

[soonervegas]

Agreed Fraggle. The government is going to put out a statistical number that says everything is OK. Frankly, that is probably part of their job. But I think most people with their eyes OPEN see people in the lower middle class, upper lower class are really struggling. Even the true middle class is having to pull money's from entertainment into fuel and food. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but the middle class doing that has a terrible effect on the economy. We are in a mild recession with the chances of it becoming much bigger if we do not face the problems and not put a band aid on them.

On a side note, we seem to be in a good part of the country to weather this better than others.

[Sooner24]

Seems to me now is a good time for people to learn to live within their means.

[Paperclip]

I don't think the NBER is a government agency.


Seems to me now is a good time for people to learn to live within their means.

I'll second that.

[r5TPsooner]

I say we are in a recession because I personally have a lot less money to do the **** I want to do and am spending a lot more money on **** that I have to have, but dont want to spend it on.

The whole "growth" thing is just weird to me... because we have magic number out there that says our economy is growing we are supposed to be okay with it? Well yay for rich people, back here in the real word I can assure you I havent seen any growth.

So in your terminology what is considered a "rich" person? One who can afford to pay his bills? One who can still purchase a house or car or both? One who can go out to eat? One who can by themselves something nice on occasion?

Personally, I don't know a single "rich" person. However, I do know a lot of middle class/upper middle class folks that are having the same difficulties as you, they just might make a few dollars more than you or me.

Growth is a very broad based term and abused to death by people. I hate it!

[tommieharris91]

Here's what I don't get.

We have yet to endure even one quarter with negative growth. I thought you had to have four quarters of negative growth for a recession.

Why does the media and certain pols insist we're in one? You know, "worst economy since the Great Depression" and all that crapola.

:pop:

First of all, it's 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth for a textbook recession. Second, 2007:4 had -1.4% GDP growth. Third, real GDP isn't growing nearly as fast as nominal GDP. Fourth, this quarter's growth in GDP was buoyed by stimulus checks. Don't expect to see that next quarter. Also, economists can and do check out the data to see if there really was a recession or not. I think they will in this case. As for worst economy since the Great Depression, I don't think it's that bad. Most people can still buy food. Unemployment hasn't hit 15% or so. We're still trading with the rest of the world (which is the best thing about the weak dollar).

Also, fuel costs and housing have never factored into inflation in the US. Fuel is considered too volatile and has too many other factors affecting it's price. Houses have always been considered investments.

Also, inflation is out of check and unemployment is rising. While it's not a textbook recession, it certainly isn't pretty.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Here's what I don't get.

We have yet to endure even one quarter with negative growth. I thought you had to have four quarters of negative growth for a recession.



That's an arbitrary definition. You could easily make up another definition for recession that would show we're in one and have been for a while. For example, I think a much better definition would involve comparing personal income growth to inflation. Perhaps throw in something about unemployment. Or under-employment.

Overall GDP may be growing; but most people can't afford to do what they used to do.

[Vaevictis]

We have yet to endure even one quarter with negative growth. I thought you had to have four quarters of negative growth for a recession.

Current figures stand at one quarter of negative growth. These figures change as new information comes in, and they recently revised Q4 2007 down by 0.8%, putting it at -0.2% for the quarter.

Recession is typically regarded as two consecutive negative quarters.

FWIW.

[Frozen Sooner]

First of all, it's 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth for a textbook recession. Second, 2007:4 had -1.4% GDP growth. Third, real GDP isn't growing nearly as fast as nominal GDP. Fourth, this quarter's growth in GDP was buoyed by stimulus checks. Don't expect to see that next quarter. Also, economists can and do check out the data to see if there really was a recession or not. I think they will in this case. As for worst economy since the Great Depression, I don't think it's that bad. Most people can still buy food. Unemployment hasn't hit 15% or so. We're still trading with the rest of the world (which is the best thing about the weak dollar).

Also, fuel costs and housing have never factored into inflation in the US. Fuel is considered too volatile and has too many other factors affecting it's price. Houses have always been considered investments.

Also, inflation is out of check and unemployment is rising. While it's not a textbook recession, it certainly isn't pretty.

What he said.

Plus, recession used to be defined as negative GNP growth instead of GDP. Wanna take a stab at why they changed it?

[shaun4411]

i havent personally noticed any recession. i go to work, pay my bills, andl ive within my means. havent had any problems. gas is more expensive, but it doesnt matter that much because i live within my means. i dont overspend (like most americans are infatuated with)

[Sooner24]

i havent personally noticed any recession. i go to work, pay my bills, andl ive within my means. havent had any problems. gas is more expensive, but it doesnt matter that much because i live within my means. i dont overspend (like most americans are infatuated with)

As it should be.

[Fraggle145]

So in your terminology what is considered a "rich" person? One who can afford to pay his bills? One who can still purchase a house or car or both? One who can go out to eat? One who can by themselves something nice on occasion?

Personally, I don't know a single "rich" person. However, I do know a lot of middle class/upper middle class folks that are having the same difficulties as you, they just might make a few dollars more than you or me.

Growth is a very broad based term and abused to death by people. I hate it!

Personally, Its not like im screwed or anything... as has been said I live within my means, but some of the nice things that I liked to do every now and again I cant do and some of the things that I used to think I needed I found out i really dont. And I think some people have been forced to shift some of what they can afford to do.

Rich to me is the people that have so much money they can wipe their *** with it. The CEO at any oil company as an example... I would love to watch him/her try to live a day as a normal person. The oil companies are making profits of $1500 per second. PER SECOND (http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/index.htm?cnn=yes). That is approximately my months salary. I mean forgive me if im not happy for those guys, as they get fat while we get ****ed on the side. Those guys get to talk about "growth" I get to talk about making sure I get the bills paid.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I say we are in a recession because I personally have a lot less money to do the **** I want to do and am spending a lot more money on **** that I have to have, but dont want to spend it on.

The whole "growth" thing is just weird to me... because we have magic number out there that says our economy is growing we are supposed to be okay with it? Well yay for rich people, back here in the real word I can assure you I havent seen any growth.

I don't think we are in a recession, too much money is moving around and there are a lot of people doing well. I for one am doing well and am better off.

I think a lot of the problems people are having stem from the consumer based society and perhaps these people not being good stewards of their money and carrying way too much debt. In a downturn, this is not good. I for one am debt free.

But there is truth with what you speak as well. There has been changes to the reporting stats that they bear no resemblence to wha the stats were and how they were reported or collected from the past. I think we need to go back and reanalyze the data with "real" or previous statistical means in order to really tell what's up.

[Fraggle145]

I don't think we are in a recession, too much money is moving around and there are a lot of people doing well. I for one am doing well and am better off.

I think a lot of the problems people are having stem from the consumer based society and perhaps these people not being good stewards of their money and carrying way too much debt. In a downturn, this is not good. I for one am debt free.

But there is truth with what you speak as well. There has been changes to the reporting stats that they bear no resemblence to wha the stats were and how they were reported or collected from the past. I think we need to go back and reanalyze the data with "real" or previous statistical means in order to really tell what's up.

I would love to see the government/economists use real stats. :pop:

[mdklatt]

We have yet to endure even one quarter with negative growth.


Not so fast.



The U.S. economy shrank at the end of 2007 and grew less than forecast in this year's second quarter, signaling that the country is in worse shape than investors had anticipated.

``We're in a recession,'' Allen Sinai, chief economist at Decision Economics Inc. in New York, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. ``It's going to widen, it's going to deepen.''

The economy may weaken further as the temporary boost from tax rebates, which aided a pick-up in gross domestic product last quarter from the previous three months, fades. Stocks and the dollar dropped, Treasuries rallied, and traders reduced bets that the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates this year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aW9BoDQLVQ9I&refer=home

[mdklatt]

I for one am doing well and am better off.


Well, yeah, but you work for an oil company, right? The reason you are doing well is a major reason why so many other people are not.

[r5TPsooner]

Interestingly enough I paid bills this a.m. and when I went to pay the gas bill I noticed that it went from $83 to $110 and I used LESS gas than I did last month. Explain that one to me. The ole electric bill on average is $350/month with the water bill coming in last at $85. My cheapest utility was the phone bill which was $43. The cell phone bill was $140 but I thankfully get reimbursed for that one.

EVERYTHING costs more, don't even get me started on the cost of feeding a family of five. Our costs have tripled since we moved here last year.

Recession? Probably. A deep recession? Stay tuned.

We have started to cut out some of the stuff we used to take for granted like eating out and buying clothing and toys for the kids.

[shaun4411]

i vehemently dislike gas power. i have to pay $20 per month during the months which i never use gas. i have gas heat, everything else is electric. gas has been over 200$+ every month during the winter months. being in an electric powered home in the past the bill rarely ever got near $200. that may be attributed to rising cost of gas, but the bill is outrageous; especially paying for something you dont use 8 months out of the year.

[mdklatt]

the bill is outrageous; especially paying for something you dont use 8 months out of the year

Here's where some of your money is going.


The parent company of Oklahoma Natural Gas has contributed $1.5 million to the University of Oklahoma Mewbourne College of Earth and Energy.

The gift from ONEOK Incorporated will support the school's Natural Gas Engineering and Management Program.

It includes $1 million to create the ONEOK Natural Gas Engineering and Management Program Endowment and $500,000 to establish the ONEOK Chair in Natural Gas Engineering and Management.

http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?S=8762113&nav=menu99_2_1

[Condescending Sooner]

Several folks on this board as well as the media WANT recession so the savior will be elected to fix everything.

[Fraggle145]

Several folks on this board as well as the media WANT recession so the savior will be elected to fix everything.

Several folks on this board as well as Fox News and the current president WANT to pretend nothing is wrong so that we can keep the status quo and they can continue to make **** tons of money at our expense. :rolleyes:

Hurray for tired rhetoric!

there is obviously a difference of opinion on this board as to who people want in politics.

I dont give a **** I just want someone to offer me some new solutions.

[Condescending Sooner]

Several folks on this board as well as Fox News and the current president WANT to pretend nothing is wrong so that we can keep the status quo and they can continue to make **** tons of money at our expense. :rolleyes:

there is obviously a difference of opinion on who people want in politics. I dont give a **** I just want someone to offer me some new solutions.


Yeah, the President, Fox News, and I are making tons of money off oil. :rolleyes:

[BillyBall]

What he said.

Plus, recession used to be defined as negative GNP growth instead of GDP. Wanna take a stab at why they changed it?

Gross National includes goods produced overseas by a domestic firm.

Also, I thought that a recession occurs when real GDP is negative for two or more consecutive quarters.

[Fraggle145]

Yeah, the President, Fox News, and I are making tons of money off oil. :rolleyes:

the point of that post was to point out what a bunch of bull crap all of that stuff is. What I stated was political crap that dems say all the time, your previous post supplied the republican side.

you think everyone wants a black prez to come save us. But you dont see the big picture that there are people with real problems out there that are facing a recession.

Instead of being childish and saying "wah the bad leftie commies want this..." why not come up with some solutions to the fact that people that dont make very much are struggling right now... was my point.

I could give a **** less how you make your money, and to think that the president isnt still in the oil business up to his neck after all he did for his oil buddies while in office is just blind IMO. Fox news does everything to blow on the republicans just like MSNBC does for the democrats. And I believe they are all part of the MSM. And sorry I guess Rupert Murdoch isnt tied to oil its tobacco which is oh so much better.

[Frozen Sooner]

Gross National includes goods produced overseas by a domestic firm.

Also, I thought that a recession occurs when real GDP is negative for two or more consecutive quarters.

Not quite.

GDP=GNP-(X-M). The trade deficit is not part of GDP.

One of the common definitions-and the one most commonly in use-of recession is two or more quarters or real GDP contraction. Absolutely. The definition that was in use when I was in school was two or more quarters of below-average real GDP growth, while a depression was two or more quarters of negative growth.

[mdklatt]

Whatever the technical term is for it, it's obvious that the economic prospects for a lot of Americans are in the ****ter. Playing semantic games isn't going to change that.

[Condescending Sooner]

the point of that post was to point out what a bunch of bull crap all of that stuff is. What I stated was political crap that dems say all the time, your previous post supplied the republican side.

you think everyone wants a black prez to come save us. But you dont see the big picture that there are people with real problems out there that are facing a recession.

Instead of being childish and saying "wah the bad leftie commies want this..." why not come up with some solutions to the fact that people that dont make very much are struggling right now... was my point.

I could give a **** less how you make your money, and to think that the president isnt still in the oil business up to his neck after all he did for his oil buddies while in office is just blind IMO. Fox news does everything to blow on the republicans just like MSNBC does for the democrats. And I believe they are all part of the MSM. And sorry I guess Rupert Murdoch isnt tied to oil its tobacco which is oh so much better.

Continuing to blame Bush for oil prices cause he "is in the oil business", is the mantra of someone who is woefully ignorant of how the system works. The fact that Bush hasn't been directly involved in the oil business for many years also continues to be ignored by the lefties.

But that fits the platform and that's all a lot of them know, so keep spreading the word brother.

[r5TPsooner]

I just love the uninformed who believe that oil companies are the reason for the high oil/gas prices.

Try blaming the politicians in Washington who are supposed to be representing you and I. When the value of the dollar rises, your oil/gas prices will begin to stabilize. But that isn't gonna happen when joe tax payer keeps bailing every tom, dick, and harry that lost a buck on walls street and in the mortgage business.

[C&CDean]

Several folks on this board as well as Fox News and the current president WANT to pretend nothing is wrong so that we can keep the status quo and they can continue to make **** tons of money at our expense. :rolleyes:

Hurray for tired rhetoric!

there is obviously a difference of opinion on this board as to who people want in politics.

I dont give a **** I just want someone to offer me some new solutions.

Oh. So you're sitting back waiting for somebody to offer you a solution huh? Here's one: Quit your ****ing whining and get another job. Don't live beyond your means. Nobody is going to help you but you. Save more and spend less.

If you're stupid enough to believe that the guy who sits in the Oval Office has anything to do with your own personal situation then you're stupid indeed.

[C&CDean]

Whatever the technical term is for it, it's obvious that the economic prospects for a lot of Americans are in the ****ter. Playing semantic games isn't going to change that.

No, but whining like a bitch about Bush will. You libs crack me the **** up.

[jkjsooner]

Here's what I don't get.
We have yet to endure even one quarter with negative growth. I thought you had to have four quarters of negative growth for a recession.


1. There is not a universal definition of a recession. That is a common one but is not accepted by all.

2. Taking money from future generations and giving rebate checks to stave off negative growth is a fool's way to avoid a recession.

3. I thought I just read today that some numbers have been revised and we did have a quarter of negative growth.

[jkjsooner]

i havent personally noticed any recession. i go to work, pay my bills, andl ive within my means. havent had any problems. gas is more expensive, but it doesnt matter that much because i live within my means. i dont overspend (like most americans are infatuated with)

I agree but let's just hope we keep our jobs....

[Fraggle145]

Oh. So you're sitting back waiting for somebody to offer you a solution huh? Here's one: Quit your ****ing whining and get another job. Don't live beyond your means. Nobody is going to help you but you. Save more and spend less.

If you're stupid enough to believe that the guy who sits in the Oval Office has anything to do with your own personal situation then you're stupid indeed.

If you read a damn thing I posted in my previous responses or after this then maybe you would see that I said I am living within my means. I did get another job. I just want to spend some money for something I want instead of being killed with bills etc...

I just dont want my government to support business that takes people for all they are worth in a system that was built on something they supply (i.e., energy). Now that there isnt an alternative to the energy they provide they can take everyones money laughing all the way to the bank.

Maybe you should try not always talking down to everyone that doesnt have it as good as you and instead try to understand what they are going through, instead of calling them stupid when they are doing exactly what you say is supposed to magically solve their problems and that solution isnt working.

[mdklatt]

I agree but let's just hope we keep our jobs....

Unemployment is just a myth created by the liberal MSM. I mean if it's really so bad, how come everybody I work with has a job?

[C&CDean]

2. Taking money from future generations and giving rebate checks to stave off negative growth is a fool's way to avoid a recession.

Hmmmmm.....we all got some of the future generation's money? Exactly what did the future generation do to earn the money?

I payed a buttload of taxes, and if I get a thou or so back from the prez then I simply say "thank you very much Mr. President." But then again, I don't have the sense of entitlement like some of the "future generation" ****wads either.

[mdklatt]

Hmmmmm.....we all got some of the future generation's money? Exactly what did the future generation do to earn the money?

Since it's just borrowed money, we didn't do anything to earn it either.

[C&CDean]

If you read a damn thing I posted in my previous responses or after this then maybe you would see that I said I am living within my means. I did get another job. I just want to spend some money for something I want instead of being killed with bills etc...

I just dont want my government to support business that takes people for all they are worth in a system that was built on something they supply (i.e., energy). Now that there isnt an alternative to the energy they provide they can take everyones money laughing all the way to the bank.

Maybe you should try not always talking down to everyone that doesnt have it as good as you and instead try to understand what they are going through, instead of calling them stupid when they are doing exactly what you say is supposed to magically solve their problems and that solution isnt working.

Talking down to? I don't think so.

You asked for somebody to provide you with solutions. You assume that is the responsibility of the President. It's not. I just reminded you of that.

Also, why are people who were making 20+% on their 401Ks and other investments bitching because they're dipping into the 14+% negative area? The whole Clinton dot.com boom/bust should have taught you something. What goes up will most assuredly go down. It ain't always gonna be Dom Perignon in the fridge. Sometimes you gotta drink Blatz.

[tommieharris91]

Hmmmmm.....we all got some of the future generation's money? Exactly what did the future generation do to earn the money?

I payed a buttload of taxes, and if I get a thou or so back from the prez then I simply say "thank you very much Mr. President." But then again, I don't have the sense of entitlement like some of the "future generation" ****wads either.
No, that stimulus was taken from future generations. It's called going into debt. Ya know, that whole thing about living within your means that the gubmint can't seem to do?

[Hamhock]

you guys should go watch Kit Kitrich (sp?).

if you think there is a recession going on, try getting a swimming pool installed right now.

[Fugue]

mmmmmmmm Blatz

[Hamhock]

Wanna take a stab at why they changed it?


ANWAAR?

[olevetonahill]

1. There is not a universal definition of a recession. That is a common one but is not accepted by all.

2. Taking money from future generations and giving rebate checks to stave off negative growth is a fool's way to avoid a recession.

3. I thought I just read today that some numbers have been revised and we did have a quarter of negative growth.

Like I asked In my neg to you.
Did you Cash that rebate Check ?

[mdklatt]

if you think there is a recession going on, try getting a swimming pool installed right now.


Let them eat cake!

[Curly Bill]

Let them eat cake!


ummmmm, cake..

[Fugue]

http://www.emaillereklameborden.net/frits/emaille/Figuren1Pagina/tn-FigBlatz2.jpg
that's actually pretty cool

geez Dean, how old are you? :D

[C&CDean]

Old enough to know better.

[olevetonahill]

Ya know How I know wes in recession ?
Its gettin harder to afford the Natty :mad:

[Fugue]

heh, oh i'll fix it, if the have any other pre WWI photos in there.

[C&CDean]

No, that stimulus was taken from future generations. It's called going into debt. Ya know, that whole thing about living within your means that the gubmint can't seem to do?

Oh. So your boy Brack is gonna fix all that huh? Cool. He'll take a bunch more of your money - you know - to help the future generations out and all - and somehow you're gonna be better off for it. Cool.

[olevetonahill]

Old enough to know better.

And to young to care ;)

[SoonerInKCMO]

Natty is up $1 for a six-pack over the last few months at my local QT. That doesn't sound like much - but it just about doubled the price of that cheap crap. :D

[Curly Bill]

Natty is up $1 for a six-pack over the last few months at my local QT. That doesn't sound like much - but it just about doubled the price of that cheap crap. :D

Oh, you're so gonna get it for that! :P

[Curly Bill]

Oh. So your boy Brack is gonna fix all that huh? Cool. He'll take a bunch more of your money - you know - to help the future generations out and all - and somehow you're gonna be better off for it. Cool.

You done dissed the Messiah, prepare for the wrath of the flock.

[olevetonahill]

Oh, you're so gonna get it for that! :P

Damn they agravate Me on my beer :P
Or just being a Vet

[C&CDean]

You done dissed the Messiah, prepare for the wrath of the flock.

What are they gonna do, beat me to death with their rainbow umbrellas in their limp wrists?

[Sooner_Havok]

Oh. So your boy Brack is gonna fix all that huh? Cool. He'll take a bunch more of your money - you know - to help the future generations out and all - and somehow you're gonna be better off for it. Cool.

Oooh, I love playing the broad overgeneralizing game! I am good at it too, see:

I agree with Dean, screw future Americans, I want my cheaply made Chinese crap right now! Forget about the future people, live in the moment! Hell, let's finance more wars on debt!


See, pretty good huh :D

[Curly Bill]

What are they gonna do, beat me to death with their rainbow umbrellas in their limp wrists?

...or keep sayin the "change" word until you choke on your own vomit. :D

[Curly Bill]

Oooh, I love playing the broad overgeneralizing game! I am good at it too, see:

I agree with Dean, screw future Americans, I want my cheaply made Chinese crap right now! Forget about the future people, live in the moment! Hell, let's finance more wars on debt!


See, pretty good huh :D

Not really. :P

[Sooner_Havok]

Not really. :P

Damn, I fail again. Oh well, the fail boat really isn't so bad once you get used to it:D

[Curly Bill]

http://www.callipygia600.com/allpictures/boats/originals/boats011.jpg

The Fail Boat

[olevetonahill]

Damn, I fail again. Oh well, the fail boat really isn't so bad once you get used to it:D

Ya really ought Not Dis the Dean , Ya see Him and I see Most things alike
just sayin

[C&CDean]

Oooh, I love playing the broad overgeneralizing game! I am good at it too, see:

I agree with Dean, screw future Americans, I want my cheaply made Chinese crap right now! Forget about the future people, live in the moment! Hell, let's finance more wars on debt!


See, pretty good huh :D

Uh, no. In reality, you suck at it.

Besides, I go out of my way to not buy Chinese made **** - which usually means buying a lot of tools, etc. at farm sales because used is the only way you'll find anything that says "made in America" on it.

But you know why the Chinese are the only game in town these days don't you? Your boy Bill worked that whole steel deal with those commie bastards and now it's coming home to roost. And your beloved unions get their fair share of the credit. You know, cause a guy deserves to make $40 an hour for plugging in two wires every 25 seconds on an assembly line...

And yes, I do live in the moment, however, unlike you, I'm not depending on my government to be my tit. I save my own money and do not expect a saviour.

[Sooner_Havok]

Uh, no. In reality, you suck at it.

Besides, I go out of my way to not buy Chinese made **** - which usually means buying a lot of tools, etc. at farm sales because used is the only way you'll find anything that says "made in America" on it.

Damn, must really suck when you have to buy things like computers, phones, TVs, radios, and clothing. But hey, you are doing your part buying used tools, good for you.


But you know why the Chinese are the only game in town these days don't you? Your boy Bill worked that whole steel deal with those commie bastards and now it's coming home to roost. And your beloved unions get their fair share of the credit. You know, cause a guy deserves to make $40 an hour for plugging in two wires every 25 seconds on an assembly line...

Damn, you are better at the whole painting with broad strokes thing than I am. Just because I ain't lining up to grovel at the feet of the next Republican president, Clinton was my boy...Damn, and I thought I didn't like the guy. I wonder, were did you pick up that whole "If you aren't with us, you're against us." false dichotomy at?


And yes, I do live in the moment, however, unlike you, I'm not depending on my government to be my tit. I save my own money and do not expect a saviour.

I see were I failed on my broad over generalization attempt now, you do indeed think that planning for any future generation is a bad thing. I guess that is were we diverge Dean, I care more about working to ensure that future Americans can enjoy a better life than I did, which was better than my parents, that was better than their parents. But you admit, as long as you are happy now, future be damned. I mean, that must be it, cause I sure as hell don't "suck at the government tit" or condone those that do.

[bonkuba]

Damn, must really suck when you have to buy things like computers, phones, TVs, radios, and clothing. But hey, you are doing your part buying used tools, good for you.



Damn, you are better at the whole painting with broad strokes thing than I am. Just because I ain't lining up to grovel at the feet of the next Republican president, Clinton was my boy...Damn, and I thought I didn't like the guy. I wonder, were did you pick up that whole "If you aren't with us, you're against us." false dichotomy at?



I see were I failed on my broad over generalization attempt now, you do indeed think that planning for any future generation is a bad thing. I guess that is were we diverge Dean, I care more about working to ensure that future Americans can enjoy a better life than I did, which was better than my parents, that was better than their parents. But you admit, as long as you are happy now, future be damned. I mean, that must be it, cause I sure as hell don't "suck at the government tit" or condone those that do.

Well, not to interject here....but I do like see the word "tit" more than once in a thread :D

I don't think that Dean meant screw everything and live for the moment.....I believe there needs to be a happy medium. I mean, come on......don't we need to enjoy ourselves just a little? Well, without the tit I dont know though;)

[Fraggle145]

Talking down to? I don't think so.

You asked for somebody to provide you with solutions. You assume that is the responsibility of the President. It's not. I just reminded you of that.

Also, why are people who were making 20+% on their 401Ks and other investments bitching because they're dipping into the 14+% negative area? The whole Clinton dot.com boom/bust should have taught you something. What goes up will most assuredly go down. It ain't always gonna be Dom Perignon in the fridge. Sometimes you gotta drink Blatz.

Then I disagree with you on what the job of the president is... I thought it was running the country? :confused:

And i dont think you are talking about me here since I mentioned my salary earlier in the thread (i.e., below the poverty line).

The problem comes when the Blatz (or in vet's case the Natty) gets too expensive. Then what?

The problem is that the energy that we rely on to make money both as individuals and as a country is getting more expensive while our dollar is getting weaker. the people that are going to feel it first are the ones that dont have any money to spend and are just making ends meet. And there is only so much you can do to better your situation and you can keep trying, but eventually something has to change in the way things are being ran and that starts at the top.

[C&CDean]

Havok,

That sucked even worse than the first try.

And so we're clear, my role - in terms of future generations - is to provide them with the tools to be successful members of society. It is not to provide them with a free ride, or even an easier ride than the one I had.

This is why I'm a bad parent in some people's minds. I don't believe in sacrificing everything I have today or going into debt to send my kids to college. If they do well in high school, and have a clue what they want to be when they grow up then I pay for books and tuition. No car, no dorm, no apartment, no insurance, no nothing. If they wanna live at home while going to school that's cool.

If they choose to not go the college route then the door is right there in front of the house and they must use it. It only swings one way. I've told them all when I throw them out, I'm throwing them out with topspin - so they don't come spinning back after they **** their lives all up.

So far, 4 of my 5 boys have moved out. I haven't spent a single penny supporting them (they haven't asked, and I don't offer). I did co-sign on a loan for the oldest, and he's made every payment on time. They're always welcome for dinner, and if they're in need of a shelter they can spend a few nights to get their feet on the ground, but that's it.

All you silly people gnashing your teeth over "future generations" just don't get it. When they work hard and become the old generation then they'll get the rewards. It ain't my job to provide future comfort to young dumbasses who don't want to work.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I just dont want my government to support business that takes people for all they are worth in a system that was built on something they supply (i.e., energy). Now that there isnt an alternative to the energy they provide they can take everyones money laughing all the way to the bank.


I'm going back through my memory banks and trying to figure out what Bush has done for the oil industry and can't really think of anything. He's proposed a lot of stuff but never gotten anything passed. The Deepwater Royalty Relief Act that so many are up in arms about was passed during the Clinton administration. Clinton also agreed to open up a vast swath of offshore Florida for a lease sale that Bush ****canned in 2001 to help his brother's reelection.

I started in the oil industry in 1998. Shortly after that, oil went to $10 a barrel and people in this industry were getting canned left and right while the country was in the orgasmic throes of the dot-com bubble. Nobody seemed to care then. What, I'm saying is life's a bitch. Deal with it!

[jkjsooner]

Hmmmmm.....we all got some of the future generation's money? Exactly what did the future generation do to earn the money?

I payed a buttload of taxes, and if I get a thou or so back from the prez then I simply say "thank you very much Mr. President." But then again, I don't have the sense of entitlement like some of the "future generation" ****wads either.

They haven't earned it yet but when they're spending most of their resources paying interest on the national debt we accrued, yeah, I'd saying we're taking their money.

They'll probably just push it to the next generation and the next but at some point that game has to end.

[C&CDean]

Then I disagree with you on what the job of the president is... I thought it was running the country? :confused:

And i dont think you are talking about me here since I mentioned my salary earlier in the thread (i.e., below the poverty line).

The problem comes when the Blatz (or in vet's case the Natty) gets too expensive. Then what?

The problem is that the energy that we rely on to make money both as individuals and as a country is getting more expensive while our dollar is getting weaker. the people that are going to feel it first are the ones that dont have any money to spend and are just making ends meet. And there is only so much you can do to better your situation and you can keep trying, but eventually something has to change in the way things are being ran and that starts at the top.


So I guess we're back to the ol' "change" mantra then huh?

Be careful what you ask for. Change for change's sake is never a good thing. That ain't my opinion, that's the opinion of much wiser folks than I. If "change" is the only thing a guy can hang his hat on, then that hat is fixin' to fall on the floor.

[C&CDean]

They haven't earned it yet but when they're spending most of their resources paying interest on the national debt we accrued, yeah, I'd saying we're taking their money.

They'll probably just push it to the next generation and the next but at some point that game has to end.

"paying interest on the national debt we accrued???"

I think you meant to say "paying interest on all the immediate gratification crap and POS video gadgetry they can't live without." Right?

[jkjsooner]

Havok,

That sucked even worse than the first try.

And so we're clear, my role - in terms of future generations - is to provide them with the tools to be successful members of society. It is not to provide them with a free ride, or even an easier ride than the one I had.

This is why I'm a bad parent in some people's minds. I don't believe in sacrificing everything I have today or going into debt to send my kids to college. If they do well in high school, and have a clue what they want to be when they grow up then I pay for books and tuition. No car, no dorm, no apartment, no insurance, no nothing. If they wanna live at home while going to school that's cool.

If they choose to not go the college route then the door is right there in front of the house and they must use it. It only swings one way. I've told them all when I throw them out, I'm throwing them out with topspin - so they don't come spinning back after they **** their lives all up.

So far, 4 of my 5 boys have moved out. I haven't spent a single penny supporting them (they haven't asked, and I don't offer). I did co-sign on a loan for the oldest, and he's made every payment on time. They're always welcome for dinner, and if they're in need of a shelter they can spend a few nights to get their feet on the ground, but that's it.

All you silly people gnashing your teeth over "future generations" just don't get it. When they work hard and become the old generation then they'll get the rewards. It ain't my job to provide future comfort to young dumbasses who don't want to work.

It doesn't seem like you understand at all what we're saying.

When we have a problem we bail ourselves out by running up a bigger and bigger debt. At some point that is going to place a tremendous burden on future generations - a burden we are not facing ourselves because we keep pushing it of making it worse and worse.

Your talk about you kids being on their own is fine and all but it has absolutely nothing to do with what we're saying.

A better analogy is if you ran up a huge debt and society made your kids pay it off. (I'm not talking taking it out of their inheritance. I'm talking forcing them to pay it after there is no inheritance.)

If you think that's fine then I don't know what to say...

[Fraggle145]

So I guess we're back to the ol' "change" mantra then huh?

Be careful what you ask for. Change for change's sake is never a good thing. That ain't my opinion, that's the opinion of much wiser folks than I. If "change" is the only thing a guy can hang his hat on, then that hat is fixin' to fall on the floor.

We have change planned into our constitution. every 4-8 yrs we get change. No matter what we are going to get change.

Dude I dont care which one of em does it... Whoever gets us away from sucking foreign oil's hind tit the best is good for me.

[Sooner_Havok]

Havok,

That sucked even worse than the first try.

And so we're clear, my role - in terms of future generations - is to provide them with the tools to be successful members of society. It is not to provide them with a free ride, or even an easier ride than the one I had.

This is why I'm a bad parent in some people's minds. I don't believe in sacrificing everything I have today or going into debt to send my kids to college. If they do well in high school, and have a clue what they want to be when they grow up then I pay for books and tuition. No car, no dorm, no apartment, no insurance, no nothing. If they wanna live at home while going to school that's cool.

If they choose to not go the college route then the door is right there in front of the house and they must use it. It only swings one way. I've told them all when I throw them out, I'm throwing them out with topspin - so they don't come spinning back after they **** their lives all up.

So far, 4 of my 5 boys have moved out. I haven't spent a single penny supporting them (they haven't asked, and I don't offer). I did co-sign on a loan for the oldest, and he's made every payment on time. They're always welcome for dinner, and if they're in need of a shelter they can spend a few nights to get their feet on the ground, but that's it.

All you silly people gnashing your teeth over "future generations" just don't get it. When they work hard and become the old generation then they'll get the rewards. It ain't my job to provide future comfort to young dumbasses who don't want to work.

See, I think we must have a communication problem here. I say I am going to over generalize you by saying you don't care about the future. You say I got it wrong.

So, what was wrong? I said I was going to purposefully distort the facts to make you seem like a bad person, and you say I did it wrong. The only thing I could have gotten wrong is that I didn't over generalize you, that I hit the nail right on the head. How else could I fail in what amounts to telling a lie than by telling the truth?

I guess we also look to the future different. I look back and can see that my parents, their parents, and their parents parents all helped to build the foundation that I stand on today. Without them sacrificing, and working to build a better future for their kids, I wouldn't be were I am today. I do envy you though, I really do. I wish I could look around at my lot in life that was built by many previous generations and say "MINE!" but I can't. I wish I could use the platform I was given and kick everyone else off, and say I earned where I started, so now you have to work your way up to were I am, but I can't. My conscience won't let me.

Someone once said some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple.

I may have been born on third base, but I am very much aware of the sacrifices made by the previous "batters" to get me there.

[C&CDean]

It doesn't seem like you understand at all what we're saying.

When we have a problem we bail ourselves out by running up a bigger and bigger debt. At some point that is going to place a tremendous burden on future generations - a burden we are not facing ourselves because we keep pushing it of making it worse and worse.

Your talk about you kids being on their own is fine and all but it has absolutely nothing to do with what we're saying.

A better analogy is if you ran up a huge debt and society made your kids pay it off. (I'm not talking taking it out of their inheritance. I'm talking forcing them to pay it after there is no inheritance.)

If you think that's fine then I don't know what to say...

Please do not include me in your "we." I'm not running up a bigger and bigger debt. Perhaps our government is, and that would be their job to get it taken care of. Whoever goes into the prez job ain't got the power to do anything about it. They'll get all the blame/credit for whatever goes down, but they ain't got one lick of stroke to do anything about it, and I sure as hell don't.

So, unlike you, I choose to not wallow in self-pity and guilt. I haven't borrowed a penny from the government of any country, and I am not personally responsible for the decisions some dumbasses up on a hill make.

I choose to continue to work hard, save hard, and enjoy life. I choose to invest in things that make sense. Land and cattle. People gotta eat. I've got a lifetime's supply of food right on my place. Simple as that.

[Sooner_Havok]

Please do not include me in your "we." I'm not running up a bigger and bigger debt. Perhaps our government is, and that would be their job to get it taken care of. Whoever goes into the prez job ain't got the power to do anything about it. They'll get all the blame/credit for whatever goes down, but they ain't got one lick of stroke to do anything about it, and I sure as hell don't.


If the person sitting in the president's chair can't affect **** one bit, then why the hell are you so opposed to Obama? If the POTUS is just a honorary title, then why the **** does it matter what party holds it?

[C&CDean]

I guess we also look to the future different. I look back and can see that my parents, their parents, and their parents parents all helped to build the foundation that I stand on today. Without them sacrificing, and working to build a better future for their kids, I wouldn't be were I am today. I do envy you though, I really do. I wish I could look around at my lot in life that was built by many previous generations and say "MINE!" but I can't. I wish I could use the platform I was given and kick everyone else off, and say I earned where I started, so now you have to work your way up to were I am, but I can't. My conscience won't let me.

This is the biggest pile of self-righteous horse**** I've ever stepped in.

My grandad on my mom's side was the town drunk of Colby, Kansas. Had 11 kids and didn't do a damn thing to support them - other than drinking up all the family's money.

My grandad on my pop's side was a hard working sumbitch, but meaner than a snake. He was dirt poor (raised 8 kids in a one room shack in Wisconsin) and the only meat my pop had growing up was squirrell, rabbit, and deer.

My mom and pop are hard working simple people who've carved out a tough living and have managed to work and save themselves into prosperity.

So, tell me, what, other than a powerful work ethic and a sense of independence did my forefathers leave for me? That's right, not a ****ing thing. I've paid hundredsfold more $$ back to my government than they ever did. However, what they did for me was the very best thing they could have done. They taught me that nothing is free. Nobody gets a handout. Hard work is the only way out. I choose to teach my kids the same thing. When your kids are snivelling about not having enough and how much you ****ed them over, my kids will be out working to better their situation.

Different strokes I guess. But then again, I believe in God...

[C&CDean]

If the person sitting in the president's chair can't affect **** one bit, then why the hell are you so opposed to Obama? If the POTUS is just a honorary title, then why the **** does it matter what party holds it?

It doesn't. I'm just a redneck goober who ain't ready for a marxist/racist/semi-muslim president yet. I'm all about a black one. Just not this caramel one.

[Vaevictis]

So, unlike you, I choose to not wallow in self-pity and guilt. I haven't borrowed a penny from the government of any country, and I am not personally responsible for the decisions some dumbasses up on a hill make.

You're not personally responsible, but so long as you wish to remain in the USA, you're liable. Every time you cut a tax check to the government, a portion of it goes to paying the interest on the debt. Some of it is on debt that has been rolled over but was originally accrued before you were ever born, and it will be that way with the kids being born today and tomorrow and the day after.

Every dollar of debt this country racks up today is a dollar that has to be paid back tomorrow, and unlike personal debts, that debt survives the person who incurred it.

You don't have to leave your kids an inheritance, but it's plain and simple *********gery to leave them indebted.

[Whet]

All of you are getting too worked up over this stuff!

Come Wednesday, November 5, 2008, if Barry wins, everything will be great. The newspapers will no longer be reporting how awful the economy is doing; how much the US is hated by the rest of the world; and anthropogenic global warming is a threat!

Because, if Barry wins, all of the reporters and news speakers will be drunk with nazi-like adoration of the country's new messiah, Barry Obama. All that is evil with the US will magically disappear, the sick will be healed, the poor will be wealthy, the wealthy will be poor, and all walmarts will either be unionized or shuttered.

[Curly Bill]

All of you are getting too worked up over this stuff!

Come Wednesday, November 5, 2008, if Barry wins, everything will be great. The newspapers will no longer be reporting how awful the economy is doing; how much the US is hated by the rest of the world; and anthropogenic global warming is a threat!

Because, if Barry wins, all of the reporters and news speakers will be drunk with nazi-like adoration of the country's new messiah, Barry Obama. All that is evil with the US will magically disappear, the sick will be healed, the poor will be wealthy, the wealthy will be poor, and all walmarts will either be unionized or shuttered.

:D

[jkjsooner]

"paying interest on the national debt we accrued???"

I think you meant to say "paying interest on all the immediate gratification crap and POS video gadgetry they can't live without." Right?

No, I'm talking about starting a war and not paying the financial cost of it.

I'm talking about giving rebate checks from money we don't have.

I'm talking about a possible gigantic bailout of Fannie and Freddie.

Dems or Repubs, it doesn't matter. We're just drunk spending money like it never has to be paid back.

[jkjsooner]

Please do not include me in your "we." I'm not running up a bigger and bigger debt. Perhaps our government is, and that would be their job to get it taken care of.

And we're talking about the government here.... I sure wasn't talking about you or your personal finances.

[Sooner_Havok]

I changed my mind

[Kels]

Lord knows, everyone's got an opinion. I'm a whopping 36 years old. Here's what I see:

*Personal entertainment and communication technology are well-distributed throughout the middle class.
*Overall, the middle class works less, has more stuff, but is in more debt than ever before.
*The entitlement mentality is pervasive.
*The late 70s, early 80s were a genuine recession. We're not there yet. Look at inflation, unemployment, etc.
*We don't have gas lines, so everyone can still fill up their multiple vehicles without any problem. I mean, who wants to pay for expensive and hard-to-get energy?

Oh, I could go on I guess. Is a little bit of realism settling in our country? Yes. I think in some ways this is a good thing. Gosh, we have so much more widespread, affordable creature comforts available than our parents or grandparents had!

Whoever is elected, I'd like to see our gov't commit to sound fiscal policies, responsible spending, cutting unnecessary bureaucracy, and encourage entreprenuership and small business through tax breaks and less regulations. Like Dean, I believe that I should be able to work hard, be honest, live frugally, and enjoy the benefits later in my life. I would like that to continue to be valued in this country. I don't expect to be able to live the same lifestyle at 36 that my in-laws do who are retired.

Since my work is dedicated to matters of faith and practice, I detect that the problem is not a new one at all. The human heart, in my opinion, is innately selfish. From my perspective, it seems that a lot of the problems that people find themselves in has to do with living above their means or wanting to have their cake now. Delayed gratification is becoming a thing of the past in this country. Due to technology and other advances, we can have almost anything we want right now, regardless of future consequences.

I'm not that smart, but I wonder if that mentality isn't a factor in the lack of financial margin so many people live under. The reckless abandon by which we pursue pleasure and our wants just has to be antithetical to patience, perseverance, and working toward long-term goals. Things that I think are important for the long-term health and prosperity of our country.

Sorry to slip into metaphysics. Having worked with thousands of college students over the last 11 years, the relationship between the desires of the heart and decisionmaking are unmistakeable to me. Maybe the day will come when I won't be able to make a living at it, but there doesn't seem to be any less of a need for people in my line of work.

I'm sure you guys will figure everything out though . . . maybe even in this thread. Stranger things have happened.

[tommieharris91]

Oh. So your boy Brack is gonna fix all that huh? Cool. He'll take a bunch more of your money - you know - to help the future generations out and all - and somehow you're gonna be better off for it. Cool.

Awesome. I didn't know I was a Brack supporter now. It's OK though. Both candidates will keep running up the national debt.

But Vaevictis covered the rest for me.

[Sooner_Havok]

I'm out, later guys.

[Fraggle145]

Continuing to blame Bush for oil prices cause he "is in the oil business", is the mantra of someone who is woefully ignorant of how the system works. The fact that Bush hasn't been directly involved in the oil business for many years also continues to be ignored by the lefties.

But that fits the platform and that's all a lot of them know, so keep spreading the word brother.

Honestly, I dont really care all that much about Bush anymore, he is about gone and good riddance. As I said before it wasnt about blaming Bush for the oil/energy situation it was wanting someone in office who will offer me the best solution to that problem. I think that many of our problems as a nation with the economy stem from the fact that we pay other countries **** tons of money for energy and oil that we could be keeping here if we would actually attempt to use alternative technologies.

[PhilTLL]

What are they gonna do, beat me to death with their rainbow umbrellas in their limp wrists?

HAW HAW TEH GAYZ! Ever think about new material?

[Whet]

Obama's solution to the energy issue - air up your car tires!


Tirelessly Pro-Obama: MSM Ignore Dumb Obama Comment

By Ken Shepherd
Created 2008-07-31 17:51
http://missharleyquinn.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/obama-cover.jpgThere's Ludacris [1], and then there's ludicrous [2].:
"There are things you can do individually, though, to save energy," Obama said. "Making sure your tires are properly inflated - simple thing. But we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling - if everybody was just inflating their tires? And getting regular tune-ups? You'd actually save just as much!"
Yes, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) actually suggested on the campaign trail that inflating your tires will save as much oil as can be procured by expanding domestic oil drilling, a suggestion that is downright laughable and mathematically impossible (see below the page break for more on that).
So where are the mainstream media on this?
MRC news analysts searched today's morning shows and the broadcast evening news programs and found nothing. Searches of Google News for mainstream media mentions of this statement yield hardly anything. A July 31 Reuters article by reporter Steve Holland indirectly touches on Obama's statement by citing Sen. McCain's critique. It's from 19 paragraphs into the article:
Noting Obama's opposition to offshore oil drilling, he said his Democratic rival had urged Americans to make sure their tires were properly inflated as a way to increase gas mileage.
"Yesterday, he suggested that we put air in our tires to save on gas. My friends, let's do that. But do you think that's enough to break our dependence on Middle Eastern oil? I don't think so," he said to chuckles from the crowd.
By contrast, conservative blogs have seized on the statement. Power Line's John Hinderaker tackled the risible claim in "Get This Man a Teleprompter [3]" (video included in excerpt below):
Barack Obama is a lot like Sean Penn or George Clooney. If you give him a script, he can deliver it pretty well. But if he tries to talk without a script that has been written for him by others, he quickly reveals that he is poorly-informed if not downright ignorant. Today he delivered another classic, by claiming that if only we would all properly inflate our tires, we could save as much gasoline as "all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling." Seriously:

The stunned silence with which the crowd greets this howler suggests that most Americans have a more practical understanding of energy consumption than Obama.
Just for fun, I did the math. Properly inflating your tires can improve gas mileage [4] by 3%. Of course, many people already keep their tires properly inflated, and many more are at least close to being properly inflated. Let's be generous and assume that one-half of the total possible savings would be realized if we all inflated our tires properly; that's a net gain of 1.5% fuel efficiency.
Americans drive approximately 2,880 billion miles per year [5]. If we average 24 mpg, we use around 120 billion gallons of gasoline in our vehicles. If, through perfect tire inflation, we improved our collective fuel efficiency by 1.5%, that would be 1.8 billion gallons. A barrel of oil produces around 20 gallons of gasoline [6], so the total savings available through tire inflation is approximately 90,000,000 barrels of oil annually.
How does this stack up against "all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling?"
ANWR: 10 billion barrels
Outer Continental Shelf: 18 billion barrels (estimated; the actual total is undoubtedly much higher, since exploration has been banned)
Oil shale: 1 trillion barrels

[Curly Bill]

Damn it Whet quit pickin on the Messiah, or something bad's gonna happen to you.

[Jerk]

That hardly sounds like a guy who is actually smart enough to make socialism work.

But, hey, let's give it another shot.

[Jerk]

HAW HAW TEH GAYZ! Ever think about new material?

I hope you're the first one to set your thermostat at 80°f in the summer, and not eat so damned much. You take from some poor 3rd world sap when you live like an American imperialist pig!!

Lead by example. Every time you set your A/C to 72°, Obama kills a kitten.

[SoonerBorn68]

The oil companies are making profits of $1500 per second. PER SECOND (http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/index.htm?cnn=yes). That is approximately my months salary.

Don't you teach out at OU? Don't you have a degree?

[Fraggle145]

Don't you teach out at OU? Don't you have a degree?

I am a TA at OU w/a B.S. from OU and a M.S. from UGA going for my PhD. So I teach my own sections, lecture, the whole bit, but I dont get professor pay, I get grad student pay. :(

[Scott D]

All of you are getting too worked up over this stuff!

Come Wednesday, November 5, 2008, if Barry wins, everything will be great. The newspapers will no longer be reporting how awful the economy is doing; how much the US is hated by the rest of the world; and anthropogenic global warming is a threat!

Because, if Barry wins, all of the reporters and news speakers will be drunk with nazi-like adoration of the country's new messiah, Barry Obama. All that is evil with the US will magically disappear, the sick will be healed, the poor will be wealthy, the wealthy will be poor, and all walmarts will either be unionized or shuttered.

so something good would come of him being elected..Wal-mart would be gone. This logic might sway my vote in his favor.

[Blue]

To me it's setting up like Status Quo vs Sink or Swim. "Life's a risk, Carnal."

[Harry Beanbag]

I am a TA at OU w/a B.S. from OU and a M.S. from UGA going for my PhD. So I teach my own sections, lecture, the whole bit, but I dont get professor pay, I get grad student pay. :(


That's by choice right?

[Harry Beanbag]

HAW HAW TEH GAYZ! Ever think about new material?

Do you?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Like I asked In my neg to you.
Did you Cash that rebate Check ?I see you never got your answer:D

[soonerhubs]

I hope you're the first one to set your thermostat at 80°f in the summer, and not eat so damned much. You take from some poor 3rd world sap when you live like an American imperialist pig!!

Lead by example. Every time you set your A/C to 72°, Obama kills a kitten.

I'm setting my A/C on 68 today and I'm deflating my tires while I refuse to tune up the car. So take that! ;)

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'm setting my A/C on 68 today and I'm deflating my tires while I refuse to tune up the car. So take that! ;)Open all your window's and add a half a quart of oil to your gas tank if you wanna impress me:D

[Fraggle145]

That's by choice right?

If you mean am I choosing to make less when I could make more teaching at OU? No, You have to have your PhD to even be considered for professorship anymore.

If you mean choosing it over some other job? then I suppose so, however if you dont want to do something and know what you want to do and the training required why would you do something else?

[Hamhock]

I'm setting my A/C on 68 today and I'm deflating my tires while I refuse to tune up the car. So take that! ;)

i like to pour gasoline out onto the ground while I fill up my car. on an ozone alert day.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I leave my Suburban, Excursion & H2 idling in the driveway all day with the a/c on high, so it's not so hot when I take one to Walmalart to buy my chinese made products.

[Whet]

If you mean am I choosing to make less when I could make more teaching at OU? No, You have to have your PhD to even be considered for professorship anymore.

If you mean choosing it over some other job? then I suppose so, however if you dont want to do something and know what you want to do and the training required why would you do something else?
Well, since this is the path you selected, don't complain about your lack of money or how stuff is too expensive!

I'm sure you could be working at an environmental consulting firm and make more money than you are now. Plus, you could continue your education.....

[Hamhock]

did you guys go watch kit kittredge like i told you?

[C&CDean]

One final comment on the recession/economy:

Drive by one of those mega-theaters on a Friday night. Not a parking space to be had.

Take your family to Disneyworld or 6-Flags any day you want this summer. You'll be standing in line for hours to take your rides.

Try to walk into a good restaraunt on a Friday or Saturday night. See how long the wait is.

Look on the freeway/roads around you. Last time I checked, they're still full of vehicles with one person behind the wheel. Many have brand new car tags too.

Go try and catch a flight on short notice. Every damn plane is full to the brim. Even before they started reducing flights, there wasn't an empty seat to be had.

Go take a cruise. We tried to upgrade on our cruise a couple weeks ago and every single staterroom, suite, and anywhere else they stick people was sold out.

Go into people's homes. Who doesn't have a new flat screen, video games, computers, and all sorts of fancy-assed gadgetry laying around?

I could go on and on.

Yeah, the economy sucks. Yeah, Bush ****ed it all up for us and our offspring. Yeah, brack is gonna save us all from the highway to hell we're on.

Meh. Burp.

[Fraggle145]

Well, since this is the path you selected, don't complain about your lack of money or how stuff is too expensive!

I'm sure you could be working at an environmental consulting firm and make more money than you are now. Plus, you could continue your education.....

So the solution to the economy is dont do the job you've wanted to so since you were 8... instead go do something else because it makes more money. Perhaps it is a screwed up system that pays businesses more than it pays people to teach.

[Hamhock]

One final comment on the recession/economy:

Drive by one of those mega-theaters on a Friday night. Not a parking space to be had.

Take your family to Disneyworld or 6-Flags any day you want this summer. You'll be standing in line for hours to take your rides.

Try to walk into a good restaraunt on a Friday or Saturday night. See how long the wait is.

Look on the freeway/roads around you. Last time I checked, they're still full of vehicles with one person behind the wheel. Many have brand new car tags too.

Go try and catch a flight on short notice. Every damn plane is full to the brim. Even before they started reducing flights, there wasn't an empty seat to be had.

Go take a cruise. We tried to upgrade on our cruise a couple weeks ago and every single staterroom, suite, and anywhere else they stick people was sold out.

Go into people's homes. Who doesn't have a new flat screen, video games, computers, and all sorts of fancy-assed gadgetry laying around?

I could go on and on.

Yeah, the economy sucks. Yeah, Bush ****ed it all up for us and our offspring. Yeah, brack is gonna save us all from the highway to hell we're on.

Meh. Burp.


yea, i wasn't kidding. try and get a swimming pool installed right now. i dare you.

[mdklatt]

So the solution to the economy is dont do the job you've wanted to so since you were 8... instead go do something else because it makes more money. Perhaps it is a screwed up system that pays businesses more than it pays people to teach.

It's not like university professors don't make a good living. You're just not there yet.

[Vaevictis]

I could go on and on.

You do realize that, given the negative savings rate, it is more likely that this is explained by easy access to credit than actual prosperity, right?

[mdklatt]

yea, i wasn't kidding. try and get a swimming pool installed right now. i dare you.

In other news, Nieman Marcus is SRO, Rolls Royce dealers are completely backlogged, and Gulfstream can't roll them out the door fast enough.

[C&CDean]

So the solution to the economy is dont do the job you've wanted to so since you were 8... instead go do something else because it makes more money. Perhaps it is a screwed up system that pays businesses more than it pays people to teach.

Dude, it's what's so great about America. You can choose to be whatever the hell you want. If your dream doesn't pay for **** then that's just part of the deal. Doing what makes you happy is worth a whole lot of $$$. If you just can't make it on what your dream job pays then it's time to cop a new dream. One thing is for sure, you can be a rich man without a jumbo portfolio. Happiness trumps $$$ every single time.

[C&CDean]

You do realize that, given the negative savings rate, it is more likely that this is explained by easy access to credit than actual prosperity, right?

I can't help it if you liberals are glass-half-empty kinda folks. Don't worry though, when your boy gets in, we won't be seeing the doom and gloom on the TV anymore and you'll all be happy ever after...

[mdklatt]

Doing what makes you happy is worth a whole lot of $$$.

Dean is super smart and ****, y'all.

[swardboy]

In 2006 America voted for change. Since then:
Gas has gone from 2.19/gallon to $4
Unemployment has gone up 10%
The Dow Jones has gone from 14,000 to 11,300
Home equity has dropped $12 trillion
Yep, we voted for change, and sure as hell got it.

Now Barry says he's REALLY gonna change us......

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Happiness trumps $$$ every single time.

A-frickin'-men.

I'll never get rich doing what I do. But by God, I go home after my 24 feeling like I just saved the world. And that's worth a mint.

[sooner_born_1960]

Dean is super smart and ****, y'all.
swardboy, on the other hand...

[mdklatt]

George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years.


If you're going to spam us with crap from the Rush Limbaugh e-mail list, at least do it so we can read it.

[Vaevictis]

If you're going to spam us with crap from the Rush Limbaugh e-mail list, at least do it so we can read it.

Is that really what you want?

[mdklatt]

Is that really what you want?

Heh. Good point. From what little I could decipher, I think I've read that one too many times already.

[swardboy]

Just a reminder that the Democratic-controlled congress has presided over absolute failure on every level....singel digit approval. And the fact that they're stone-walling drilling in PROVEN reserve areas is mind-boggling to me.

I can't believe they're leaving town without dealing with this.

[mdklatt]

Just a reminder that the Democratic-controlled congress has presided over absolute failure on every level.

You mean the people that have been in power for less than two years? As opposed to the Republicans who had a government monopoly for 6 years and couldn't get anything done? I'm not trying to defend the useless Democrats, but let's put most of the blame where it belongs, on the worse than useless Republicans.

[Vaevictis]

Just a reminder that the Democratic-controlled congress has presided over absolute failure on every level....singel digit approval.

Yeah, and 9/11 is 100% Bush's fault too. :rolleyes:

[swardboy]

Yes, those people. That's how fast sh*t starts stinking.

[Fraggle145]

Dude, it's what's so great about America. You can choose to be whatever the hell you want. If your dream doesn't pay for **** then that's just part of the deal. Doing what makes you happy is worth a whole lot of $$$. If you just can't make it on what your dream job pays then it's time to cop a new dream. One thing is for sure, you can be a rich man without a jumbo portfolio. Happiness trumps $$$ every single time.

I totally agree here. I'm just saying its nice when it has both. ;)

I wasnt saying I couldnt make it and I am happy with it.

Originally, I was just saying that I had noticed a change in what I was spending my money on from less wants to more needs and that some of the needs prices were pretty steep.

Thus, I didnt get what all of this sunshine pumping about "growth" was all about when all I was noticing was my wallet getting smaller.

[swardboy]

Oh, and congratulations Nancy Pelosi on your 800+ plus ranked book on Amazon....we so respect you.

[soonerscuba]

Oh, and congratulations Nancy Pelosi on your 800+ plus ranked book on Amazon....we so respect you.
So if book sales are indicative of respect and good government, what are your thoughts on Bill Clinton? Or are you just being silly and oh so petty?

[swardboy]

So if book sales are indicative of respect and good government, what are your thoughts on Bill Clinton? Or are you just being silly and oh so petty?


Stop being silly and so petty :D

Just a comment on the sitting majority leader being a joke....and truthfully, I don't think I'd read any majority leader's progaganda. She's got to be one deflated pol as regards her grandiose hopes on getting the position.

On topic: I've got manufacturing concerns as clients, and they're experiencing significant turn-around in June numbers.

[soonerscuba]

For the record, I think that the House Democrats were out for blood, but being Democrats, failed at doing anything. Dems in the House are useless, Bush's job of trying to work with them is worse. We have a failure pile of a government right now, it will get better in January, regardless of who wins.

[Fraggle145]

For the record, I think that the House Democrats were out for blood, but being Democrats, failed at doing anything. Dems in the House are useless, Bush's job of trying to work with them is worse. We have a failure pile of a government right now, it will get better in January, regardless of who wins.

I agree.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I disagree.

BHO + Pelosi's Majority Marauders = Blank check for some retarded *** government spending.

At least with opposing parties either in the executive branch or in the congressional majority, there's a check to the balance, not just a check with a signature.

And yes, I'm a firm believer that goes both ways.

[mdklatt]

We have a failure pile of a government right now, it will get better in January, regardless of who wins.


In the midst of yet another McCain flip-flop, he actually said something quite encouraging:


On Sunday, on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos, McCain said this about a payroll tax increase: "There is nothing that's off the table. I have my positions, and I'll articulate them. But nothing's off the table. I don't want tax increases. But that doesn't mean that anything is off the table."

You mean we might get a president who isn't going to be hidebound by ideology, and just might acknowledge that the best option isn't always the "right" option? What a refreshing "change".

[soonerscuba]

In the midst of yet another McCain flip-flop, he actually said something quite encouraging:



You mean we might get a president who isn't going to be hidebound by ideology, and just might acknowledge that the best option isn't always the "right" option? What a refreshing "change".
McCain is against income-tax increases, but not against closing deductions loop-holes, sin tax, or SS tax increases. This is a clever trick, but the right choice right now anyway.

[mdklatt]

McCain is against income-tax increases, but not against closing deductions loop-holes, sin tax, or SS tax increases. This is a clever trick, but the right choice right now anyway.

I'm not really concerned with his specific policy ideas at this point, but the fact that "nothing is off the table" is nice to hear after almost eight years of my-way-or-the-highway White House policies.

[Fugue]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/omgleafs/Vintage/BlatzBeer.jpg

WOW! :eek:

[85Sooner]

Dems have always been about doom and gloom when their not in the White house. Hang em all... emmmmmm I mean high, I say :)

[swardboy]

LOL my pants off!

[olevetonahill]

I see you never got your answer:D

Nope i think Boy may be confused.;)

[Whet]

So the solution to the economy is dont do the job you've wanted to so since you were 8... instead go do something else because it makes more money. Perhaps it is a screwed up system that pays businesses more than it pays people to teach.

It has always been that way, when you were 8 years old and decided you wanted to teach, until now and, regardless of what NEA sez, it is not going to change.....

Plus, if one never really worked in the real world on real world problems, how can one teach people what one has not experienced? Unless, one wants all of their students to be teachers....

Have you ever conducted an eco risk assessment, or designed one? That is what the ecology students will be doing when they graduate and go to work for companies or the government.

But, if that is the path you want to take, more power to you!

[Fraggle145]

It has always been that way, when you were 8 years old and decided you wanted to teach, until now and, regardless of what NEA sez, it is not going to change.....

Plus, if one never really worked in the real world on real world problems, how can one teach people what one has not experienced? Unless, one wants all of their students to be teachers....

Have you ever conducted an eco risk assessment, or designed one? That is what the ecology students will be doing when they graduate and go to work for companies or the government.

But, if that is the path you want to take, more power to you!

I wanted to be a scientist, not necessarily a teacher, now it kind of comes with the territory if you want to be able to do your own research and take it the direction you want to take it with out having the potential to have your science and or integrity compromised based on your funding source.

Granted this is not always the case with researchers outside of academia, but it does happen. And I am all for a closer partnering with competent business and competent science coming together to salve problems and assess risk and am not saying one is better than the other.

I personally havent conducted an risk assessment myself (it is still early in my career), however I have used many of the same methods and many academics are brought in from the outside to collaborate etc... Also who do you think comes up with the methods that are used in those assessments? I would say that many if not most times that it is the academics.

You have to teach the fundamentals that the methods are built on as well as the scientific method of thinking in order for the students to carry out the assessments properly and be able to interpret the data correctly as professionals.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I wanted to be a scientist, not necessarily a teacher, now it kind of comes with the territory if you want to be able to do your own research and take it the direction you want to take it with out having the potential to have your science and or integrity compromised based on your funding source.

Granted this is not always the case with researchers outside of academia, but it does happen. And I am all for a closer partnering with competent business and competent science coming together to salve problems and assess risk and am not saying one is better than the other.

I personally havent conducted an risk assessment myself (it is still early in my career), however I have used many of the same methods and many academics are brought in from the outside to collaborate etc... Also who do you think comes up with the methods that are used in those assessments? I would say that many if not most times that it is the academics.

You have to teach the fundamentals that the methods are built on as well as the scientific method of thinking in order for the students to carry out the assessments properly and be able to interpret the data correctly as professionals.Could you put that in layman terms?







:D

[Scott D]

I'm still waiting for any damn one of you to tell me how Walmart being shuttered is a bad thing.

[Hamhock]

Could you put that in layman terms?



Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.


:D

[Scott D]

Those who can, do. Those who can't, get radio talk shows.


:D

:D

[royalfan5]

I'm still waiting for any damn one of you to tell me how Walmart being shuttered is a bad thing.

Because it might re-direct those shoppers into the places I shop.

[Frozen Sooner]

Dems have always been about doom and gloom when their not in the White house. Hang em all... emmmmmm I mean high, I say :)

Come get some. ;)

[Sooner24]

so something good would come of him being elected..Wal-mart would be gone. This logic might sway my vote in his favor.

Then where would all the welfare people shop?

[Jerk]

What we need to jump-start the economy is reparations for slavery

http://www.jibjab.com/view/140957

[Fraggle145]

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.


:D

Or do and teach... :P

[Whet]

I wanted to be a scientist, not necessarily a teacher, now it kind of comes with the territory if you want to be able to do your own research and take it the direction you want to take it with out having the potential to have your science and or integrity compromised based on your funding source.

Granted this is not always the case with researchers outside of academia, but it does happen. And I am all for a closer partnering with competent business and competent science coming together to salve problems and assess risk and am not saying one is better than the other.

I personally havent conducted an risk assessment myself (it is still early in my career), however I have used many of the same methods and many academics are brought in from the outside to collaborate etc... Also who do you think comes up with the methods that are used in those assessments? I would say that many if not most times that it is the academics.

You have to teach the fundamentals that the methods are built on as well as the scientific method of thinking in order for the students to carry out the assessments properly and be able to interpret the data correctly as professionals.

Well, the methods we use, including chemical mdls come from our research divisions. We have an associate director for Ecology (ADE) that oversees our four research divisions.

The four research Divisions that combine efforts under the ADE to meet the research goals for ecological effects research at the Laboratory, each based geographically to study effects on our diverse National ecosystems: the Atlantic Ecology Division in Narragansett, Rhode Island; the Gulf Ecology Division in Gulf Breeze, Florida; the Mid-Continent Ecology Division in Duluth, Minnesota; and the Western Ecology Division in Corvallis, Oregon.
The ADE is responsible for planning, developing, organizing, directing and implementing a number of national research programs for which the NHEERL has Agency-wide responsibility. The ADE is responsible for representing the NHEERL on Agency committees for the purpose of assessing the relevance of ongoing research and to plan future approaches and emphasis. In addition, the ADE actively participates on interagency, national and international committees or panels to ensure that NHEERL research remains on the cutting edge and to share EPA research findings with the world scientific community.

Atlantic Ecology Division (Narragansett, RI) studies the effects of contaminants and other stressors on the coastal waters and watersheds of the Atlantic seaboard.

Gulf Ecology Division (Gulf Breeze, FL) assesses the condition of coastal ecosystems (wetlands, bays, estuaries, and coral reefs) in the Gulf of Mexico and analyzes causes of change to ecological status.

Mid-Continent Ecology Division (Duluth, MN) performs research to protect freshwater ecosystems and wildlife and to understand the basic processes and mechanisms involved in aquatic toxicity.

Western Ecology Division (Corvallis, OR) evaluates the effects of chemical contaminants, land use, and global climate change on terrestrial ecosystems and on watershed ecology along the Pacific coast.

It is those research labs that provide the technical methods and procedures for conducting and evaluating ecological risk. The contaminant mdls are derived from similiar research labs. From what I have seen, a lot of the academia rely on the research conducted at these labs.

[Scott D]

Then where would all the welfare people shop?

the same place they've always been shopping...The Swap Meet...aka The Flea Market...aka Doleo's Second Home.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I miss going to the swap meet.

Mary's was gold when I was a kid.

[Harry Beanbag]

If you mean am I choosing to make less when I could make more teaching at OU? No, You have to have your PhD to even be considered for professorship anymore.

If you mean choosing it over some other job? then I suppose so, however if you dont want to do something and know what you want to do and the training required why would you do something else?


I was just implying that you have chosen to do what you do and it pays what it pays. Like Dean said though, being happy at your job is worth a ton of money, to me at least. I envy you though, I haven't found it yet and I'm not sure I ever will. :(

[bonkuba]

Dude, it's what's so great about America. You can choose to be whatever the hell you want. If your dream doesn't pay for **** then that's just part of the deal. Doing what makes you happy is worth a whole lot of $$$. If you just can't make it on what your dream job pays then it's time to cop a new dream. One thing is for sure, you can be a rich man without a jumbo portfolio. Happiness trumps $$$ every single time.

If I may.......

I worked for IBM over 15 years making over $200k......gave it up to come back and run the family tire store here in Ardmore. I now get to see my wife and kids. In essence, took a HUGE pay cut.......but I am a richer man.:D

[Sooner24]

If I may.......

I worked for IBM over 15 years making over $200k......gave it up to come back and run the family tire store here in Ardmore. I now get to see my wife and kids. In essence, took a HUGE pay cut.......but I am a richer man.:D

What kind of soonerfans.com discount do you give? :D

[bonkuba]

What kind of soonerfans.com discount do you give? :D

Just come on in :D

[Sooner24]

So where am I going?

[r5TPsooner]

Uh, no. In reality, you suck at it.

Besides, I go out of my way to not buy Chinese made **** - which usually means buying a lot of tools, etc. at farm sales because used is the only way you'll find anything that says "made in America" on it.

But you know why the Chinese are the only game in town these days don't you? Your boy Bill worked that whole steel deal with those commie bastards and now it's coming home to roost. And your beloved unions get their fair share of the credit. You know, cause a guy deserves to make $40 an hour for plugging in two wires every 25 seconds on an assembly line...

And yes, I do live in the moment, however, unlike you, I'm not depending on my government to be my tit. I save my own money and do not expect a saviour.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner folks.

[Scott D]

only flaw with Dean's argument is that even without unions the cost of goods would still increase while in general salaries stay more static. It's only when there's some sort of inflated rush in wages that costs seem to balance out a little more.