Foreign Policy Credentials

[Frozen Sooner]

Could a McCain supporter give me a minute of their time and explain to me exactly what John McCain's credentials are on foreign policy?

I ask completely without rancor, and I ask that you refrain from talking about McCain's presumptive opponent in the presidential election. This is about McCain and why people see him as someone well-versed in foreign policy. I've bopped around a bit, and I think I'm missing something on this one.

Seriously, I'm not looking to argue. The guy stands a decent chance of becoming the next president, so I want to know more.

[JohnnyMack]

IBTManchurianCandidate.

[Frozen Sooner]

OK, he was instrumental in getting US-Vietnamese relations normalized. That's certainly a credential.

[Sooner_Havok]

IBTManchurianCandidate.

Oh yeah?

He thinks Czechoslovakia is still a country, and feels that the REAL problem in the middle east is on the Iraq/Afghanistan boarder

:P

[mdklatt]

Could a McCain supporter give me a minute of their time and explain to me exactly what John McCain's credentials are on foreign policy?


He knows things that even foreign policy experts don't. Like about the Iraq/Afghanistan border, and how the "Anbar Awakening" was due to the Surge even though it happened before the Surge was even announced. I'll forgive him for thinking Czechoslovakia still exists (because really, who cares?), but the ever increasing list of gaffes is becoming worrisome. These are not just "potataoe" or "57 states" gotcha moments anymore.

[Sooner_Havok]

He knows things that even foreign policy experts don't. Like about the Iraq/Afghanistan border, and how the "Anbar Awakening" was due to the Surge even though it happened before the Surge was even announced. I'll forgive him for thinking Czechoslovakia still exists (because really, who cares?), but the ever increasing list of gaffes is becoming worrisome. These are not just "potataoe" or "57 states" gotcha moments anymore.

I think we're going against the spirit of Mike's thread

[mdklatt]

I think we're going against the spirit of Mike's thread

Yes, I think you're right. It's a South Oval first!!

:D

[Okla-homey]

He was a career professional naval officer who saw up close the impact of US foreign policy at the pointy tip of the spear where policy BS shatters when it strikes reality. In fact, that experience in Viet Nam caused him to write later: "In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn’t have the least notion of what it took to win the war."

Both McCain's grandfather and father were admirals in the United States Navy and as such, you can bet he picked up a lot just by osmosis. I'm not kidding. A great deal of knowledge gets passed from father to son in military families.

He was a United States carrier air wing commander and as such wielded more US foreign policy power before breakfast than his opponent has wielded in his entire life.

He attended and graduated from professional military education and the intermediate and war college levels where he studied foreign policy in-residence for a year each time.

He sponsored the successful surge in Iraq in the Senate where he has served honorably and capably throughout most of his post-Navy life and has been privy to most of the most significant foreign policy decisions of the past 15 years.

Oh, and that little matter of living in a foreign country for six years and not as their guest.

That's all I got time for right now.

[Sooner_Havok]

Yes, I think you're right. It's a South Oval first!!

:D



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At least we admit it, unlike others
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[soonerscuba]

Could a McCain supporter give me a minute of their time and explain to me exactly what John McCain's credentials are on foreign policy?

I ask completely without rancor, and I ask that you refrain from talking about McCain's presumptive opponent in the presidential election. This is about McCain and why people see him as someone well-versed in foreign policy. I've bopped around a bit, and I think I'm missing something on this one.

Seriously, I'm not looking to argue. The guy stands a decent chance of becoming the next president, so I want to know more.
Because it's politcally expedient for him to say he is? What do I win?

[Frozen Sooner]

He attended and graduated from professional military education and the intermediate and war college levels where he studied foreign policy in-residence for a year each time.

Thanks, that's certainly relevant foreign policy experience.

[Curly Bill]

This is nice, the donk wing of the board having this little chat with themselves. :)

[Fugue]

This is nice, the donk wing of the board having this little chat with themselves. :)


yep, kind of like being trapped in an issue of Newsweek.

:D

[mdklatt]

Thanks, that's certainly relevant foreign policy experience.

So is being in the Senate for so long compared to Obama. But "experience" doesn't equal "expertise", as his numerous gaffes have shown. And foreign policy is supposed to be his strength! I don't hear any real solutions from him, just "I have a dream" speeches and the League of Extraordinary Nations that he wants to create.


Interesting Google trivia: One of the suggestions that comes up in the search toolbar for "mccain de" is "mccain dehydrated babies (http://www.google.com/search?q=mccain+dehydrated+babies&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)". :D

[Curly Bill]

yep, kind of like being trapped in an issue of Newsweek.

:D

well said...

...or watching NBC, or CNN, or MSNBC, or ABC, or CBS, or PBS

[Rogue]

Knowing as many career military officers and men as I do, many of them products of the academies, these credentials alone don't impress me much.

When I'm considering an applicant for a job, any job regardless of level, I value a history of success over experience. I'll take the applicant who continually succeeds even if they have many years less experience than someone who has those years if they are mediocre.

That said, I'm still giddy that these are our choices this year. It's a win-win.

[PhilTLL]

Oh, and that little matter of living in a foreign country for six years and not as their guest.

That's all I got time for right now.

The rest of your post aside, I'm STILL not sure even after the millionth repetition why this is a "foreign policy credential." A tougher-SOB-than-me credential, yeah, but how in the world does being held prisoner make one better at statecraft?

[Frozen Sooner]

Folks, while you're welcome to post whatever, I really wanted to keep this as a non-argumentative and informative thread. Homey did a decent job of stating his position and almost managed to do it without referring to McCain's opponent.

I really don't need to know about McCain's gaffes-trust me, I've read about them and chuckled just as much as you have.

What I want to know is what policy-making (and I admittedly wasn't clear on this in the initial point) experience does McCain have in this field? What committees in the House and Senate that deal with foreign policy has he sat on or chaired? What diplomatic missions has he been a part of?

I'm not trying to bash the guy or elicit McCain-bashing posts. I want to know where his experience in this area lies. Most of what I can find on his senatorial record is focused on ethics and domestic issues.

[achiro]

yep, kind of like being trapped in an issue of Newsweek.

:D
It's worse.
You know, I've never worried to much about small geographical mistakes and such. I figure the pres is gonna have plenty of advisors to let him know when there is an issue with Zamunda.

[Sooner_Havok]

It's worse.
You know, I've never worried to much about small policy mistakes and such. I figure the pres is gonna have plenty of advisers to let him know what the issue is with Zamunda.

Hey, another Obama supported, welcome to the flock. :D

[Curly Bill]

Hey, another Obama supported, welcome to the flock. :D

Flock is right!

...bunch of sheep. :D

[olevetonahill]

Flock is right!

...bunch of sheep. :D

He sure aint trying to Hard to Advance His Membership App. Now is he ?

[Curly Bill]

Brack is just gonna brainwash all of us....it seems to have already worked on some seemingly otherwise intelligent individuals...once we're all under his spell and he's the Pres. he's gonna ship in the Taliban to rule over us.

[Sooner_Havok]

Brack is just gonna brainwash all of us....it seems to have already worked on some seemingly otherwise intelligent individuals...once we're all under his spell and he's the Pres. he's gonna ship in the Taliban to rule over us.

Wanna know something kinda funny I just figured out?

Around 20% of US Americans thought Nixon was doing "A heck of a job" before he officially resigned.

Around 20% of US Americans say they have seen a ghost.

Around 20% US Americans believe they, or a close friend/relative have seen a UFO.

And Around 20% of US Americans believe "Brack" is a secret muslim.

[olevetonahill]

Wanna know something kinda funny I just figured out?

Around 20% of US Americans thought Nixon was doing "A heck of a job" before he officially resigned.

Around 20% of US Americans say they have seen a ghost.

Around 20% US Americans believe they, or a close friend/relative have seen a UFO.

And Around 20% of US Americans believe "Brack" is a secret muslim.

You Do Know your Application To the "Flying Dickwheel " Club Is going in the Mens ****ter for TP at the TGs dont you ? :pop:

[Sooner_Havok]

You Do Know your Application To the "Flying Dickwheel " Club Is going in the Mens ****ter for TP at the TGs dont you ? :pop:

Eh, when I get some money, I'll still call myself a Flying Dickwheel. I'll just leave it to you to come to my house and stop me ;) :D :D

[Curly Bill]

Wanna know something kinda funny I just figured out?

Around 20% of US Americans thought Nixon was doing "A heck of a job" before he officially resigned.

Around 20% of US Americans say they have seen a ghost.

Around 20% US Americans believe they, or a close friend/relative have seen a UFO.

And Around 20% of US Americans believe "Brack" is a secret muslim.

I don't doubt that at all. I, in all seriousness for once, don't believe him to be a secret muslim. I absolutely believe him to be an empty suit who's lack of experience, not to mention his very leftist leaning views (despite his recent "move" to the center) would not be good for the country. That being said: I think there are large numbers of people who won't say it, and it won't show up in polling, but who will not vote for him come election time. You'd be surprised how little chance I think there is for a Brack presidency.

[Sooner_Havok]

I don't doubt that at all. I, in all seriousness for once, don't believe him to be a secret muslim. I absolutely believe him to be an empty suit who's lack of experience, not to mention his very leftist leaning views (despite his recent "move" to the center) would not be good for the country. That being said: I think there are large numbers of people who won't say it, and it won't show up in polling, but who will not vote for him come election time. You'e be surprised how little chance I think there is for a Brack presidency.

I agree. What is it called, the Brady effect or something? At any rate, I really just figured that out and was looking for an existing thread to put it in, I don't think the mods like me making a bazzilion new one liner threads :D

[olevetonahill]

Eh, when I get some money, I'll still call myself a Flying Dickwheel. I'll just leave it to you to come to my house and stop me ;) :D :D

That can be arrainged :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Sooner_Havok]

well said...

...or watching NBC, or CNN, or MSNBC, or ABC, or CBS, or PBS

BTW, shouldn't you leave CBS off yer list? They just edited your guy so he didn't sound more, well, temporally retarded.

[Sooner_Havok]

That can be arrainged :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

You miss the Branch Davidian part :confused: :P

[Curly Bill]

BTW, shouldn't you leave CBS off yer list? They just edited your guy so he didn't sound more, well, temporally retarded.

Maybe, I don't know cause they did dump Dan Rather...

I don't watch the network news hacks anymore.

[Sooner_Havok]

Maybe, I don't know cause they did dump Dan Rather...

I don't watch the network news hack anymore.

You like Pappa Bear?

[Curly Bill]

You like Pappa Bear?

:confused:

[Sooner_Havok]

O'Reilly

[olevetonahill]

You miss the Branch Davidian part :confused: :P

Nope . Did you Miss the ending of that deal :eek:

[Curly Bill]

O'Reilly

I watch him occasionally, same thing with Hannity & Colmes...


...it's just all so predictable: O'Reilly is gonna hammer Brack, so is Hannity, Colmes will defend Brack, Olberman is gonna be sniffing Brack's private region, so is anyone on NBC...

[Okla-homey]

What I want to know is what policy-making (and I admittedly wasn't clear on this in the initial point) experience does McCain have in this field? What committees in the House and Senate that deal with foreign policy has he sat on or chaired? What diplomatic missions has he been a part of?



sheezus man, he almost single-handedly normalized US relations with Vietnam and brokered/cajoled us access to dozens of crashsites where we recovered the remains of a lot of men whose families had never gotten closure on their son/dad/husband who were still officially listed as "missing." That impresses the crap out of me.

[swardboy]

I just wanna see more of Cindy. Like someone said on here a while back, a woman that likes Nascar and sells beer.....this race should be over!

Seriously, the last two Presidents were governors...."experience" isn't the issue...worldview is.

[Frozen Sooner]

sheezus man, he almost single-handedly normalized US relations with Vietnam and brokered/cajoled us access to dozens of crashsites where we recovered the remains of a lot of men whose families had never gotten closure on their son/dad/husband who were still officially listed as "missing." That impresses the crap out of me.

I believe I gave him credit for the normalization of relations with Vietnam. You're right-the negotiation for extraction of downed pilots is also impressive, and that part I wasn't aware of.

You seem to be reading some secret agenda into this. I'm genuinely curious. I've said numerous times that while I like Obama better that I don't think that a McCain presidency would be horrible. I was very glad that he won the Republican nomination, 'cause I think he was absolutely the best of that bunch.

[Okla-homey]

I believe I gave him credit for the normalization of relations with Vietnam. You're right-the negotiation for extraction of downed pilots is also impressive, and that part I wasn't aware of.

You seem to be reading some secret agenda into this. I'm genuinely curious. I've said numerous times that while I like Obama better that I don't think that a McCain presidency would be horrible. I was very glad that he won the Republican nomination, 'cause I think he was absolutely the best of that bunch.

And I'll admit that I could have stomached HRC easier than this guy. I think she's very intelligent. And she was raised in a conservative family. She just went left when she went to college. A common problem, but when the chips are down, people generally revert to their hard-wiring.;)

[Curly Bill]

And I'll admit that I could have stomached HRC easier than this guy. I think she's very intelligent. And she was raised in a conservative family. She just went left when she went to college. A common problem, but when the chips are down, people generally revert to their hard-wiring.;)

Much as I dislike HRC I agree with you. At least she has some experience, and the continual media fawning over Brack makes me want to kick some "reporters" in the nads.

...and this shiz about him looking the part? He looks like a teenager in his dad's oversized suit.

[Rogue]

WTF? :confused:
Now we're having a Hillary luv-fest in the thread to talk about how great JM's foreign policy credentials are? Is the the Twilight Zone SO?

[Curly Bill]

WTF? :confused:
Now we're having a Hillary luv-fest in the thread to talk about how great JM's foreign policy credentials are? Is the the Twilight Zone SO?

You know we always get off task!

[olevetonahill]

WTF? :confused:
Now we're having a Hillary luv-fest in the thread to talk about how great JM's foreign policy credentials are? Is the the Twilight Zone SO?

Its just the Nature of the beast .

[r5TPsooner]

Much as I dislike HRC I agree with you. At least she has some experience, and the continual media fawning over Brack makes me want to kick some "reporters" in the nads.

...and this shiz about him looking the part? He looks like a teenager in his dad's oversized suit.

Totally agree. I'd rather see a HRC white house than BHO white house.

[olevetonahill]

Totally agree. I'd rather see a HRC white house than BHO white house.

I didnt like that bitch when I woke up today , I didnt Like her last week , Last Month last year . Come to think of it , Ive hated her for a Long time ;)

[r5TPsooner]

Let me just say this... iI really think BHO is bad for this country and his wife is even worse. That is about as nice as I can be on that topic.

McCain while not great, will at least not tax me into an early grave and give every one of the USA enemies the chance to take advantage of us. BHO will severely reduce our military in more ways than one IMHO.

[Chuck Bao]

sheezus man, he almost single-handedly normalized US relations with Vietnam and brokered/cajoled us access to dozens of crashsites where we recovered the remains of a lot of men whose families had never gotten closure on their son/dad/husband who were still officially listed as "missing." That impresses the crap out of me.


Kudos to McCain for helping to negotiate the recovery of the bodies of US troops who served our country and paid the ultimate sacrifice and for helping their families finally reach closure.

There is no doubt that that this is immensely important, but I’m still not sure how that makes McCain best suited to deal with current economic and trade issues.

The US is in a crisis now and foreign policy has to be in context of the real war at hand and that is trade. As best I can tell, McCain is faithfully following the Bush administration’s public line.

And maybe McCain will bring in a whole new set of advisors and just can’t yet upstage or undermine the current administration policy at this point. In other words, we could see a whole new fresh approach and that would be good.

I can tell you what I don’t like about McCain and that is that many of his current / former advisors represent / represented foreign governments. That is not right. But, that is probably part and parcel of Republicans already representing big business and big business’s interests overseas.

This is neither here nor there. But, I would like to add that the socialist government of Vietnam, they are alovin’ on McCain. Outside of the Hanoi Hilton, which they are promoting as a major tourist attraction, there is a sign that seems to celebrate McCain’s internship there. Unfortunately, I’ve lost my photo of the sign and my pics of the war-time prison. Of course, there is also a museum on the victory over the Americans. I could not stomach going there.

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. I guess that was kind of civil...;)

Seriously, I have a hard time believing that you guys wouldn't be saying roughly the same things about Clinton that you're saying about Obama right now. I've heard some pretty scurrilious stuff that people have tried to sell me on Clinton.

It's pretty hard for someone who's a major party candidate to be an unmitigated disaster. I mean, were Ron Paul or Bob Barr or Ralph Nader get in, yeah, that'd be a disaster. I mean, like much worse than the current president.

[Curly Bill]

This is neither here nor there. But, I would like to add that the socialist government of Vietnam, they are alovin’ on McCain.

This is an easy one! They are skeered of McCain. Payback is a biotch! :D

So...they are trying to get on his good side.

[r5TPsooner]

As a stout conservative, it wouldn't pain me all that bad to see HRC as McCains VP. She'd be better than Tim "NO TAX" Pawlenty."

Sure, Tim... you don't tax your people you just charge them "service fees" instead.:rolleyes:

[mdklatt]

As best I can tell, McCain is faithfully following the Bush administration’s public line.

But that's 2008 McCain. Maybe we'd get lucky and get 2000 McCain, or even 2007 McCain. I hope we don't get 2028 McCain, but I wonder sometimes.



And maybe McCain will bring in a whole new set of advisors and just can’t yet upstage or undermine the current administration policy at this point.


Let's hope so. No more incompetent sycophants and cronies, please.

The whole experience argument for/against any candidate is a red herring. Nobody knows how to be president except the people who have done it (and some of them not even then....) It's always going to be on-the-job training. The key is to surround yourself with people who know what they're talking about and even more importantly to listen to what they say. And for cripes sake, don't ****can reports and analyses just because they don't go along with some preconceived agenda.

[Jerk]

I think we need to have another thread about BHO's managerial experience. Has he ever been in an executive position? Ever ran a company? Owned a small business? Led troops into battle? Administered a government agency? Coached a football team? Led a pom squad?

I srsly don't know.

[mdklatt]

I think we need to have another thread about BHO's managerial experience.

Which has what to do with being president? The whole president-as-CEO sounded good to me when Ross Perot was talking it up, but yeah, that's not the way it works. There is no training or experience in the world that's going to prepare you to be president. I think it all comes down to aptitude.

[achiro]

don't ****can reports and analyses just because they don't go along with some preconceived agenda.

I am assuming you are referring to Obama's take on the surge?

[Harry Beanbag]

I am assuming you are referring to Obama's take on the surge?


Ouch, that one's gonna leave a mark. :D

[jage]

I just don't know if I can vote for someone who has never used the internet before...

To me, that's just saying he doesn't want to try hard enough to stay up with current events.

Just sayin......ok carry on:pop:

[mdklatt]

I am assuming you are referring to Obama's take on the surge?

He didn't deny that the surge had a positive effect, he just said he wouldn't have gone that route. Bush would have said the surge was working even if Iraq the Shiites and Sunnis starting nuking each other.

[Curly Bill]

If the Shiites and Sunnis started nuking each other what would be the problem? I mean really...?

[picasso]

Could a McCain supporter give me a minute of their time and explain to me exactly what John McCain's credentials are on foreign policy?

I ask completely without rancor, and I ask that you refrain from talking about McCain's presumptive opponent in the presidential election. This is about McCain and why people see him as someone well-versed in foreign policy. I've bopped around a bit, and I think I'm missing something on this one.

Seriously, I'm not looking to argue. The guy stands a decent chance of becoming the next president, so I want to know more.

compared to his opponent? is this a joke Froz?

sheesh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

[StoopTroup]

This thread seems to have become a sand trap.

[Fugue]

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~nohe/MTOD/Lapa/TankerSandTrap.jpg

[Fugue]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1314/762850369_6680d91a9c.jpg

[Mixer!]

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7002/250pxmouthhr0.jpg

[Fugue]

yes, THAT is a sand trap. This thread has improved a great deal over the last few posts. :texan: :pop:

[NormanPride]

The key here is to find out who McCain will surround himself with. Who will be his defense secretary, etc.? McCain himself will be the public face of negotiations, but a lot of his work will be done by the people underneath him greasing the proverbial wheels for him. Also, you have to look at which candidate will best be able to work with Congress. A perfect example is the fact that McCain helped regulate relations with Vietnam, and he wasn't the President then... the same could happen during the next presidency, but the man in charge has to be able to work well with those that want to help.

[BigRedJed]

Screw both of those guys. I'm writing in Ronald Reagan's skeletized remains.