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View Full Version : It's true, they are stealing . . . trash



Jacie
7/16/2008, 06:05 PM
They're stealing your trash

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Every Wednesday night, Bruce Johnson dutifully puts his garbage and recycling on the curb for pickup, and every week he fumes as small trucks idle in front of his home and strangers dig through his bins stealing trash they aim to turn into treasure.


A woman refuses to give her name while picking up recycled items in San Francisco.

Glass breaks, paper flies -- the loot's gone hours before the waste company even arrives.

"They're like an army out there," said Johnson. "They're in trucks. They're on cell phones. It's a business."

With prices for aluminum, cardboard and newsprint going up and an economic slowdown putting added pressure on people's pocketbooks, curbside refuse has become a hot commodity.

A truck piled high with mixed recyclables can fetch upward of $1,000; newspapers alone can grab about $600.

"These guys are becoming much more organized and much more prevalent," said Robert Reed, a spokesman for Norcal Waste Systems Inc., a garbage and recycling company in San Francisco and other cities throughout Northern California. "This has nothing to do with the lone homeless man picking up cans. We're seeing organized fleets of professional poachers with trucks."

The issue has caught the attention of state and local officials, who are seeking more stringent regulations to curb theft, saying lost revenue threatens the financial viability of their recycling programs.

Pilfering cans, bottles and other recyclables from bins is already illegal in many places, including San Francisco and New York City.

In San Francisco, poachers can be fined up to $500 and get six months jail time. In New York, thieves are subject to arrest, vehicle impoundment and fines of up to $5,000.

California lawmakers are also considering legislation that would make large-scale, anonymous recycling more difficult by forcing scrap and paper recyclers to require picture identification for anyone bringing in more than $50 worth of cans, bottles or newspapers and to pay such individuals with checks rather than cash.

In Westchester County, New York, a proposal would make large-scale curbside recycling theft punishable by time behind bars and fines of up to $2,000.

Companies are also taking measures of their own.

Norcal Waste contracted private investigators and installed surveillance cameras at San Francisco spots frequented by poachers. The investigators compiled dozens of photographs of old pickup trucks covered by spray-painted graffiti and piled high with recyclables allegedly stolen from residents.

The free weekly The East Bay Express, which covers Oakland, Berkeley and other Bay Area cities, hired an ex-police detective to stake out thieves and began retrofitting curbside newspaper racks to make them theft-resistant because thousands of fresh copies go missing some weeks.

"We don't want to be spending all our energy printing papers that people take directly to the recyclers," said Hal Brody, the paper's president.

Mike Costello, vice president of circulation at the free San Francisco daily, The Examiner, has taken to doing stakeouts of his own.

In April, Costello followed a man driving around the city, emptying newspaper racks and loading the stolen papers into a van. He eventually pulled up alongside him, and told him, "'Stay where you are. You're in big trouble,"' Costello recalled.

Costello called police and the man unloaded his spoils -- thousands of copies of more than 15 publications, including multiple newspapers and piles of free San Francisco tourist maps and brochures.

NorCal Waste Systems estimates that in 2007, more than $469,000 in recyclables were stolen by hundreds of trucks. Officials from the City of Concord, some 30 miles east of San Francisco, figure they're out $40,000 a year, while the city of Berkeley values the loss upward of $50,000 annually.

In the last five years, aluminum prices on the London Metal Exchange have climbed from around 65 cents a pound in 2003 to a record high of $1.50 a pound in July. Recycled paper and cardboard prices have also spiked, driven in large part by a burgeoning recycled paper export market.

"Newsprint is a hot grade," said Mark Arzoumanian, editor in chief of Official Board Markets, a publication covering the paper industry. "There is a voracious demand in China and India for recycled paper."

By cargo container load, the United States exports more waste paper than any other product. Last year, 20 million tons of recycled paper were shipped from U.S. ports. Approximately 75 percent of that paper goes to China, where it is reprocessed into shoe boxes, newspapers, cereal boxes, and the assortment of cardboard packages encasing all the consumer products China manufactures.

"China just doesn't have a heck of a lot of trees to make paper with," said Arzoumanian.

Homeless advocates worry that a crackdown on recycling could hurt the very poor, who rely on the meager earnings drummed up by turning over bottles and cans for refund values of between 5 cents and 10 cents per container.

In a survey conducted in 2000 by the nonprofit advocacy group Los Angeles Coalition to End Hunger and Homelessness, 75 percent of homeless people in Los Angeles said they depended on income from recycling.

The group is supporting California's pending Senate bill, but only because it is aimed specifically at large-scale recycling thieves.

After all, a single homeless person with a shopping cart and plastic bag cannot compete with multiple people in trucks bent on collecting every bottle, can and newspaper, said executive director Bob Erlenbusch.

"I don't have any problem going after the big time guys in trucks, so long as the homeless get left alone," he said.

yermom
7/16/2008, 06:18 PM
this seems like a good problem to have, other than the newspaper thing, but maybe they should look at the medium if it's worth more as trash, not to mention the delivery process

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 06:25 PM
I set out my mom's old freezer to be picked up Saturday for the monthly big item trash pick up. They came to the door and told me they couldn't get it because it hadn't had the freon drained and tagged to that effect. Anyway...I left it setting by the curb, I go out Sunday and it's gone! I don't know who got it but it saved me from having to push it back into the garage.

yermom
7/16/2008, 06:58 PM
they will steal those for the copper inside

freon be damned ;)

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 07:02 PM
This is gonna sound bad, but...peeps around here have developed the practice of setting stuff out by the road that they don't want and don't want to mess with carrying off or whatever, and the Messicans will get it.

I learned this from some of my Messican relatives. :D

Rogue
7/16/2008, 07:10 PM
Not sure I see the harm in these folks recycling what would go to the landfill.
Can't they also do this at the landfill?

tommieharris91
7/16/2008, 07:24 PM
I've heard my dad say this story a few times:

Someone he knows put out a large couch with a sign that says "FREE" on it. It didn't dissapear from his yard for a week. He then put a sign that says "$10" on it. He woke up the next morning and it was gone!

yermom
7/16/2008, 07:25 PM
Not sure I see the harm in these folks recycling what would go to the landfill.
Can't they also do this at the landfill?

the city is losing money because they would be recycling the stuff instead of the poachers

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 07:28 PM
Not sure I see the harm in these folks recycling what would go to the landfill.
Can't they also do this at the landfill?

Not sure I see the harm either, I was glad when I looked out and realized the freezer was gone.

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 07:29 PM
I've heard my dad say this story a few times:

Someone he knows put out a large couch with a sign that says "FREE" on it. It didn't dissapear from his yard for a week. He then put a sign that says "$10" on it. He woke up the next morning and it was gone!

heh

47straight
7/16/2008, 07:30 PM
Not sure I see the harm in these folks recycling what would go to the landfill.
Can't they also do this at the landfill?

I think the issue is that they are taking what is already going to be recycled profitably - the stuff wasn't headed for the landfill. I agree that it would be completely different if they rummaged through the regular trash.

For the city, the profitably-recyclable materials probably subsidize recycling the not-profitably-recycalable material. By hamburgling the profitable stuff, the hamburglers can make the whole system unworkable and then we can't have efficient and convenient recycling.

Rogue
7/16/2008, 07:35 PM
I live in the county. Not far from city limits from 2 encroaching cities. Suburbia no-man's land out here.

If they try to annex us I'm going to push really hard for curbside recycling. It will be bad for Mrs. Rogue's efforts at being the neighborhood recycling queen, but better because people here flat don't recycle.

Methinks that the city could probably farm out the recycling to some entrepreneurial spirits if there's such competition for it.

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 07:38 PM
I live in the county. Not far from city limits from 2 encroaching cities. Suburbia no-man's land out here.

If they try to annex us I'm going to push really hard for curbside recycling. It will be bad for Mrs. Rogue's efforts at being the neighborhood recycling queen, but better because people here flat don't recycle.

Methinks that the city could probably farm out the recycling to some entrepreneurial spirits if there's such competition for it.

I think recycling is great and I'll do it if I can, but I'm not gonna jump through hoops to do it, and I think lots of peeps are like me. You gotta make it accessible and somewhat painless if you want peeps to do it.

...which I think is kinda what you're saying...

r5TPsooner
7/16/2008, 07:49 PM
I've heard my dad say this story a few times:

Someone he knows put out a large couch with a sign that says "FREE" on it. It didn't dissapear from his yard for a week. He then put a sign that says "$10" on it. He woke up the next morning and it was gone!


Why do I believe that this is a true story?

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 08:55 PM
I just set some 1970's era dining trays out by the curb...

I'm hoping they're gone by noon tomorrow. :D

sooneron
7/16/2008, 09:14 PM
I think recycling is great and I'll do it if I can, but I'm not gonna jump through hoops to do it, and I think lots of peeps are like me. You gotta make it accessible and somewhat painless if you want peeps to do it.

...which I think is kinda what you're saying...

Jeebus! You put it on the curb. Wham, you're done. Not a lot of hoops there. Its flipping retarded that more larger areas don't have it. And I can guarantee you that SF and NYC have recycling and have for years.

47straight
7/16/2008, 09:18 PM
I think recycling is great and I'll do it if I can, but I'm not gonna jump through hoops to do it, and I think lots of peeps are like me. You gotta make it accessible and somewhat painless if you want peeps to do it.

...which I think is kinda what you're saying...


They solve it here by charging you a ton of money for a wastebin that holds 1.5 trash bags, but with unlimited free curbside recycling.

47straight
7/16/2008, 09:21 PM
Jeebus! You put it on the curb. Wham, you're done. Not a lot of hoops there. Its flipping retarded that more larger areas don't have it. And I can guarantee you that SF and NYC have recycling and have for years.

Some places only take 1 or 2 kinds of the dozen or more kinds of plastic, glass and paper. Specific rules about certain types of juice, milk, yogurt containers, cereal boxes, etc etc. If you're a place that only takes 1 or 2 things it can be a pain, especially when they ding you for putting the wrong thing out.

Sure SF or NYC have been doing it for years. It's a lot easier to enforce and facillitate in a dense urban environment than suburban no-man's land, as was described.

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 09:23 PM
Jeebus! You put it on the curb. Wham, you're done. Not a lot of hoops there. Its flipping retarded that more larger areas don't have it. And I can guarantee you that SF and NYC have recycling and have for years.

See, I could do that. I wouldn't even mind if there was one central location here in the town where I live to take it to, as that would be easy enough. In fact the place I just moved from had that and I took my newspapers, cans, and stuff there. Where I am now though no suck luck, and that probably means I'll just be throwing stuff in the trash.

sooneron
7/16/2008, 09:25 PM
Some places only take 1 or 2 kinds of the dozen or more kinds of plastic, glass and paper. Specific rules about certain types of juice, milk, yogurt containers, cereal boxes, etc etc. If you're a place that only takes 1 or 2 things it can be a pain, especially when they ding you for putting the wrong thing out.

Sure SF or NYC have been doing it for years. It's a lot easier to enforce and facillitate in a dense urban environment than suburban no-man's land, as was described.

People are pretty much like monkeys, you have them do it enough, they eventually get the hang of it.

tommieharris91
7/16/2008, 09:25 PM
I just set some 1970's era dining trays out by the curb...

I'm hoping they're gone by noon tomorrow. :D

Just make sure you put a price tag on it.

sooneron
7/16/2008, 09:27 PM
I just set some 1970's era dining trays out by the curb...

I'm hoping they're gone by noon tomorrow. :D

Need that address there, bub.:texan:

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 09:28 PM
People are pretty much like monkeys, you have them do it enough, they eventually get the hang of it.

This post is racist!!!!














;)

Curly Bill
7/16/2008, 09:29 PM
Just make sure you put a price tag on it.

They're so beautiful peeps will be fighting to see who can plunder them first as it is. :D

I will provide a follow-up report on if they get plundered or not.

StoopTroup
7/17/2008, 12:16 AM
I've got an older Gentleman in our neighborhood who looks retired.

He's got a little station wagon that he uses to collect stuff.

I saw him going through the trash at a Shell Station last week.

At first I thought he might have some sort of disorder but now I'm leaning towards him supplementing his retirement or lack of....with the collecting.

I'll try to get a pic of the Station Wagon. Sometimes his garage is open and it looks like a weigh station.