What is it with city school superintendents nowadays?

[Okla-homey]

Tulsa just gave the boot to a guy they only hired for the top job a while ago. His contract ran through 2012. Of course, he gets to take $400,000 with him as a lovely parting gift.

I seem to recall reading OKC has gone thru approximately a superintendent year for quite some time as well.

Just a suggestion. Perhaps large municipalities should stop hiring Ed.D's for the top job. They might do better by looking to the private sector for people with demonstrated success in areas in which performance is quantifiable in terms of balancing a budget, observing applicable regulations, while making a profit and satisfying customers.

Afterall, the best hospital administrators are rarely doctors. They're business people.

[Mjcpr]

They've got their eye on a former teacher who has been superintendent of a couple of smaller districts, like Oologah and somewhere else. I don't know if he is an Ed.D but this seems like a much better idea than the nationwide search/dog and pony show they've gone through the last couple of times.

[Hamhock]

Methinks even the most skilled navy admiral would have little success with the Titanic.

[Okla-homey]

They've got their eye on a former teacher who has been superintendent of a couple of smaller districts, like Oologah and somewhere else. I don't know if he is an Ed.D but this seems like a much better idea than the nationwide search/dog and pony show they've gone through the last couple of times.

The teaming metropoli of Oolagah and Claremore.

Prolly a fine guy. But, like I said, this system is huge, is all over the city and probably way beyond his ability to cope.

[StoopTroup]

If they'd hire me...

I'll whip em all into shape.

That's my promise to you Tulsa. :D

[Okla-homey]

Methinks even the most skilled navy admiral would have little success with the Titanic.

She sure seems headed for the bottom, but the right guy or gal might just turn her in time. It'll take a hardhead with leadership ability, a head for numbers and the ability to delegate authority while maintaining the big picture. Those are not qualities particularly nurtured in the education departments of our colleges and universities.

[Mjcpr]

The teaming metropoli of Oolagah and Claremore.

Prolly a fine guy. But, like I said, this system is huge, is all over the city and probably way beyond his ability to cope.

I didn't see where you said that but you probably know him a lot better than I do so I couldn't say what kind of job he will do.

[Okla-homey]

I didn't see where you said that but you probably know him a lot better than I do so I couldn't say what kind of job he will do.

It was in the same World article announcing "Dr. Zed's" contract buy-out.

[Hamhock]

She sure seems headed for the bottom, but the right guy or gal might just turn her in time. It'll take a hardhead with leadership ability, a head for numbers and the ability to delegate authority while maintaining the big picture. Those are not qualities particularly nurtured in the education departments of our colleges and universities.

while those are great qualities, they ignore the fact that most parents view public education as an entitlement for babysitting, parenting, and education.

public education is very broken and the cracks are in the foundation (parents)

i wouldn't take the job for a billion trillion dollars. per hour.

[Mjcpr]

I would and I'd quit after 3 seconds and tell them to suck my fat one as I retired into wealthy, golf course nirvana.

[Okla-homey]

while those are great qualities, they ignore the fact that most parents view public education as an entitlement for babysitting, parenting, and education.

public education is very broken and the cracks are in the foundation (parents)

i wouldn't take the job for a billion trillion dollars. per hour.

I hear ya. But I've lightened up on public education some over the past year because people in the profession take it personally when people outside it are critical. I know many are genuinely nice people who are trying to do their best amid tough circumstances. Nevertheless, as you say, the system is broken.

There are many things I would change if I were King of Oklahoma. I'd start by privatizing a lot of educational infrastructure and cut a lot of dead weight among support staff. I'd also build in merit pay raises for classroom teachers indexed to kids performance on objective testing. I would also loosen teacher certification requirments so anyone with a BS or BA from an accredited institution could be a teacher in the area of their degree with minimal fuss.

I'd also pay good math and science teachers better than liberal arts teachers. Maybe even twice as much. That would not go over well, but let's get real. Math is more important than watercolor painting or gym. I will even admit its more important to a kid's success than knowledge of history.:eek:

[Hamhock]

I hear ya. But I've lightened up on public education some over the past year because people in the profession take it personally when people outside it are critical. I know many are genuinely nice people who are trying to do their best amid tough circumstances. Nevertheless, as you say, the system is broken.

There are many things I would change if I were King of Oklahoma. I'd start by privatizing a lot of educational infrastructure and cut a lot of dead weight among support staff. I'd also build in merit pay raises for classroom teachers indexed to kids performance on objective testing. I would also loosen teacher certification requirments so anyone with a BS or BA from an accredited institution could be a teacher in the area of their degree with minimal fuss.

I'd also pay good math and science teachers better than liberal arts teachers. Maybe even twice as much. That would not go over well, but let's get real. Math is more important than watercolor painting.

for me, it's simple economics. until both sides have something invested, they won't care about the results.

[StoopTroup]

I would and I'd quit after 3 seconds and tell them to suck my fat one as I retired into wealthy, golf course nirvana.

See...that's where you and I differ.

I'd still play all the golf I wanted and I would get a small staff of people loyal to me. They would be split into districts and be rotated through each district. They would have the ability of stealth and drop in at every place I'm responsible for. It things needed fixing they would simply call me and I would leave Southern Hills Golf Course and be there ASAP.

After they see how effective I was...Expo would hire me to fix their problems too.

In later years...they will build a monument of me at 31st and New Haven.

It would be bigger than the Golden Driller on EXPO.

:D ;)

[SoonerProphet]

While not a public institution, my current headmaster just finished up a nice capital campaign. Our salaries have increased, we have a new dining facility due to open at the end of August. We are re-designing the business office and turning the old dining facility into the fine arts area.

Not bad for Rutgers education and a former teacher. Granted 1200 students is not a large isd, but I'm sure us educators can handle our own affairs.

[StoopTroup]

There will be no raises and the beatings will continue until morale improves...

Then there will be raises.

[NormanPride]

Yeah, raised welts. You're too soft, ST.

[r5TPsooner]

while those are great qualities, they ignore the fact that most parents view public education as an entitlement for babysitting, parenting, and education.

public education is very broken and the cracks are in the foundation (parents)

i wouldn't take the job for a billion trillion dollars. per hour.


The parents aren't the only cracks in the foundation. The biggest crack is the teacher's union IMHO. Until they do away the union, the change in public education might never come.

[StoopTroup]

I know how to keep the Union and get things done.

The Union will do my work for me...

http://www.coateskokes.com/green/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/figure2.jpg

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

She sure seems headed for the bottom, but the right guy or gal might just turn her in time. It'll take a hardhead with leadership ability, a head for numbers and the ability to delegate authority while maintaining the big picture. Those are not qualities particularly nurtured in the education departments of our colleges and universities.Is business management and/or finance even part of the curriculum for an education degree?

[oklaclarinet]

I'd also pay good math and science teachers better than liberal arts teachers. Maybe even twice as much. That would not go over well, but let's get real. Math is more important than watercolor painting or gym. I will even admit its more important to a kid's success than knowledge of history.:eek:

This despite the fact that research has shown that active participation in music increases both comprehension and standardized test scores in math and reading?

[Ike]

This despite the fact that research has shown that active participation in music increases both comprehension and standardized test scores in math and reading?

This is true...


Though active participation in math and reading produce larger increases in standardized test scores....


just sayin.

You have to have a firm base to build on before arts and music make a difference.

[Okla-homey]

This despite the fact that research has shown that active participation in music increases both comprehension and standardized test scores in math and reading?

I'm not sure one necessarily follows the other. I think its more a matter of the fact kids who care enough about being in the band also care enough to do their homework. Slackers don't usually bother to learn to sight read music and play an instrument.

[Okla-homey]

Is business management and/or finance even part of the curriculum for an education degree?

they say so, but I kinda feel like demonstrated expertise in those areas is more important than the degree itself.

Especially since Dr. Zed got his M.Ed. from some "institution" called California Coastal University or some such drivel...a/k/a a diploma mill. I don't know where he got his Ed.D.

http://www.calcoast.edu/

[BigRedJed]

The new OKC school super is a retired Army Reserve colonel who spent most of his military career in the Marines. When he announced his retirement from Mustang (a district that has had lots of successes over the past few years), people in the district begged him to stay, and he did for a while.

One of the endorsements that he got during the OKC process was from former mayor Kirk Humphreys, who was a former school board president himself, noted for bringing a business approach to education.

Homey's right; there needs to be just as strong a focus on business acumen as on educational background when hiring a super. But the thing that OKC didn't do with the last hire was make sure he was a cultural fit. He was apparently an excellent educator but a horrible communicator, and came from an east-coast situation where he was required to have little accountability and was treated like a god. When he tried to proceed that way in OKC, it didn't sit well.

Despite the poor hiring choice made then and the PR fallout that resulted, one of the best things that OKC has done in a long time was get Sonic chairman Cliff Hudson to serve as school board chairman (he resigned as part of a deal to buy out Porter, the preceeding president). During his term, he brought a much more business-like approach to the way the district ran.

OKC did have a good super in Bob Moore, from what I understand (I don't have kids in OKC schools), who again was apparently business-minded and oversaw much of the physical transformation brought about by MAPS for Kids.

Before that, the district had, like Homey says, much controversy and failure. Hopefully, after the Porter hiccup, this new guy will bring the needed business acumen and military organizational skill to bear and keep the district on the right track. Having spent many years in Oklahoma will certainly help him from a cultural standpoint, I believe.

Another thing that is encouraging is that he insisted on a one-year contract and the same type of review that teachers get, as opposed to the standard multi-year contract that his predecessor had.

[BigRedJed]

A story I ran across on the hiring quoted Humphreys talking about how the new OKC super handled a budget crisis in Mustang. It was something along the lines of telling everyone "OK, here's the deal: we are going to spend this weekend figuring out how to cut $1.2 million out of the budget with only the following two conditions -- nobody loses a job, and the kids can't tell where we've cut back."

[BudSooner]

It would be bigger than the Golden Diggler on EXPO.

:D ;)

:eek:

[oklaclarinet]

This is true...


Though active participation in math and reading produce larger increases in standardized test scores....


just sayin.

You have to have a firm base to build on before arts and music make a difference.

I agree a good foundation is important. Studying math and reading creates what are essentially dirt roads within the mind. Studying music then takes those dirt roads and turns them into superhighways.


I'm not sure one necessarily follows the other. I think its more a matter of the fact kids who care enough about being in the band also care enough to do their homework. Slackers don't usually bother to learn to sight read music and play an instrument.

Trust me, not all the students in band class are the gifted students. Plenty of what would be considered average to below average students find their way into band. And although being in band won't suddenly make these kids supergeniuses, it will give them more of a bump in math and reading than what they would have had without band.

My main point is that the idea of paying math and science teachers more because their subjects are worth more is absurd. Someone who has loads of background in these areas with nothing else will be the sort of person who has all the smarts and no idea how to use them.

If you want a bunch of androids running around, teach only math and science. However, Einstein reached his greatest moments of clarity when playing the violin.

Quotes from Albert Einstein:
"If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music.
I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music .... I get most joy in life out of music."

(When asked about his theory of relativity)
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition.
My discovery was the result of musical perception."

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

[Ike]

I agree a good foundation is important. Studying math and reading creates what are essentially dirt roads within the mind. Studying music then takes those dirt roads and turns them into superhighways.

Lets not go too far overboard with the analogies here...If you want to use this manner of analogy, studying math and reading creates 4 lane highways in the mind. Studying art and music adds a lane.

Nobody walks away from oboe lessons suddenly knowing vector calculus.




Trust me, not all the students in band class are the gifted students. Plenty of what would be considered average to below average students find their way into band. And although being in band won't suddenly make these kids supergeniuses, it will give them more of a bump in math and reading than what they would have had without band.

My main point is that the idea of paying math and science teachers more because their subjects are worth more is absurd. Someone who has loads of background in these areas with nothing else will be the sort of person who has all the smarts and no idea how to use them.

If you want a bunch of androids running around, teach only math and science. However, Einstein reached his greatest moments of clarity when playing the violin.

Quotes from Albert Einstein:
"If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music.
I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music .... I get most joy in life out of music."

(When asked about his theory of relativity)
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition.
My discovery was the result of musical perception."

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

What Einstein was getting at was that creativity is the driving force behind science and math, just as it is with music. Finding new and inventive ways around existing problems advances the field. Just knowing math or music doesn't make anyone creative. Music can be just as much about rote repetition as math is. Teaching creativity is difficult, but a good math instructor will promote finding creative solutions to problems.


My own music instruction was actually far more about repetition than my math instruction. (as in :les: "PLAY THE DAMN SONG THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN FOR YOU!"). I gave up before I was ever encouraged to do something musical that I could call my own.

My math instruction however did a lot more to encourage me to find other uses for the tools I had been taught to use.


I won't deny that there are certain synergies between the two. The question is where should the priorities lie? We gain a lot as a society by having a large fraction of the population simply be competent with certain tools (like math). We gain little by having a large fraction of the population be competent with a guitar. We certainly shouldn't stand in the way of giving kids the opportunity to explore their creative side with arts and music, but at the same time, we should be emphasizing more that creative bit in the maths and sciences, in addition to teaching them how to use the tools of math and science. And that's where Homey's suggestion comes in. Paying *GOOD* math and science teachers more. Because the good ones will emphasize having students use the tools at their disposal to solve new and interesting problems in addition to teaching them to be competent with those tools. This doesn't eliminate the study of music or art or anything else. It simply is a judgement about priority.

[tommieharris91]

Is business management and/or finance even part of the curriculum for an education degree?

At OU it's not.

[oklaclarinet]

Lets not go too far overboard with the analogies here...If you want to use this manner of analogy, studying math and reading creates 4 lane highways in the mind. Studying art and music adds a lane.

Nobody walks away from oboe lessons suddenly knowing vector calculus.




What Einstein was getting at was that creativity is the driving force behind science and math, just as it is with music. Finding new and inventive ways around existing problems advances the field. Just knowing math or music doesn't make anyone creative. Music can be just as much about rote repetition as math is. Teaching creativity is difficult, but a good math instructor will promote finding creative solutions to problems.


My own music instruction was actually far more about repetition than my math instruction. (as in :les: "PLAY THE DAMN SONG THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN FOR YOU!"). I gave up before I was ever encouraged to do something musical that I could call my own.

My math instruction however did a lot more to encourage me to find other uses for the tools I had been taught to use.


I won't deny that there are certain synergies between the two. The question is where should the priorities lie? We gain a lot as a society by having a large fraction of the population simply be competent with certain tools (like math). We gain little by having a large fraction of the population be competent with a guitar. We certainly shouldn't stand in the way of giving kids the opportunity to explore their creative side with arts and music, but at the same time, we should be emphasizing more that creative bit in the maths and sciences, in addition to teaching them how to use the tools of math and science. And that's where Homey's suggestion comes in. Paying *GOOD* math and science teachers more. Because the good ones will emphasize having students use the tools at their disposal to solve new and interesting problems in addition to teaching them to be competent with those tools. This doesn't eliminate the study of music or art or anything else. It simply is a judgement about priority.

I agree about the need for creativity in math and science classes. The problem is that our current education system does not allow for them. We have placed so much of our priorities on standardized testing (thank you NCLB) that the math and science teachers don't teach those creative methods, only the facts needed to pass the tests. As it is, music and art classes are the only places in our schools that currently allow for creativity. These trends were a long time coming before NCLB though. Maslow recognized that when in his writings he emphasized that all education should be founded in the arts. (He also advocated a more open education system focused more on the exchange of ideas than the awarding of grades and diplomas.)

Now, I understand the difficulties in practically implimenting Maslow's ideas. The point is that some change is needed, but it isn't by emphasizing math and science more while continuing to maintain our current systems of evalution. If you only pay the good math and science teachers for their expertise, you will run off the good music, art, history, English, etc. teachers. Plus you send the message that a well rounded education isn't important. As far back as education has existed, people have realized the need for students to develop into well rounded educated citizens.

As for the road analogy, it isn't mine. It comes from people who have conducted the studies on the brain, and believe me, the way I phrased it is accurate.

“Should we not be putting all our emphasis on reading, writing and math? The ‘back-to-basics curricula,’ while it has merit, ignores the most urgent void in our present system – absence of self-discipline. The arts, inspiring – indeed requiring – self-discipline, may be more ‘basic’ to our nation survival than traditional credit courses. Presently, we are spending 29 times more on science than on the arts, and the result so far is worldwide intellectual embarrassment.” -Paul Harvey

[tulsaoilerfan]

Why are supers even needed? Seems like a giant waste of $ to me

[Soonrboy]

At OU it's not.

It is in the master's and doctoral programs.