Are you really moderate?

[badger]

For about the billionth time today, a conservative mind told me he was moderate.

Yet, like many self-declared "moderates" they vote nothing but Republican all day every day.

Bill O'Reilly? Calls himself a "moderate." Sean Hannity? Another self-proclaimed "moderate." Myself? I really, truly think I am moderate, yet I have never once voted for a Democrat. I have convinced myself that I will when the right Democrat comes along, but I have yet to find a right Democrat.

Why won't people just come out and call themselves conservative? Is it taboo to be conservative? Why are liberals so self proclaimin' "liberal" but conservatives want to convince you they're not really conservatives?

Thoughts?

(The South Oval needs some lively political discussin' this morning, methinks. It's Monday, after all)

[Curly Bill]

O'Reilly and Hannity both conservatives, but if they can make people think they're moderate then it makes those opposed to them and their policies seem that much more extreme.

[mikeelikee]

I'm not a moderate. I'm a conservative. A Reagan conservative. IMO, it's the liberals that don't call themselves liberals. They're now "progressives".

[Curly Bill]

I'm not a moderate. I'm a conservative. A Reagan conservative. IMO, it's the liberals that don't call themselves liberals. They're now "progressives".

Yeah I agree, it's my opinion that it's the liberals who don't like to be tagged as such. Conservatives, of which I am one, don't seem to be as ashamed of their tag.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Seems to me a lot of liberals don't call themselves that. They too prefer moderate or progressive, or even independent. I don't think either side likes the name "wing" as part of their political description.

[StoopTroup]

I remember growing up and hearing people say..."There ought to be a law to fix that".

As I grew up from there I soon realized the folks who thought Law would fix things were simply lazy and wanted someone else to fix their problem or folks who took the otherside of the coin and figured out a way to make money off of the Law or other people's laziness.

As a moderate I find it hard today to like either of those type of folks.

If you live your life extreme...fine...just don't get PO'd when the rest of us bloody your nose.

Those guys on TV are only there until the money dries up.

I'll never believe they are there to help make things better...whether Conservative or Liberal.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

O'Reilly and Hannity both conservatives, but if they can make people think they're moderate then it makes those opposed to them and their policies seem that much more extreme.O'Reilly IS a moderate. He doesn't understand capitalism/economics very well. IMO if a person isn't an economic conservative, then he's not a conservative.

[Widescreen]

This thread is funny. Democrats are far more desperate to be considered moderates than republicans. Personally, I'd rather people just say where they stand and let others decide whether that's liberal or conservative.

[StoopTroup]

As a moderate I'm on the liberal side of being more conservative.

[MrJimBeam]

McCain would call himself a conservative before Obama would call himself a liberal.

[Bone]

IMO if a person isn't an economic conservative, then he's not a conservative.

I'm with you 100% there.

[r5TPsooner]

Call any politician anything you want as long as they quit spending most of my money on pork.

back to the topic... I consider myself a conservative Republican but unlike most, I'm not a bible Thumper. I consider myself more spiritual than religious and I think that the government should balance there checkbook the way I do which means pay as you go or don't go at all.

[badger]

I actually love Oklahoma Democrats because they have a lot of the same ideals as Wisconsin Republicans. That's my justification for calling myself a "moderate," but like I said, I have yet to vote for a Democrat. Maybe the dems just need to start running as republicans?

Maybe its a regional thing, because there are definitely some proud conservatives out there, but more often than not, I've witnessed conservatives claiming to be moderates than liberals. However, that's just me. I can see clearly that it is different in Oklahoma. Maybe it depends on what party's the majority? Maybe it's more beneficial to be a moderate democrat in Oklahoma than a moderate republican?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I actually love Oklahoma Democrats because they have a lot of the same ideals as Wisconsin Republicans. That's my justification for calling myself a "moderate," but like I said, I have yet to vote for a Democrat. Maybe the dems just need to start running as republicans?

Maybe its a regional thing, because there are definitely some proud conservatives out there, but more often than not, I've witnessed conservatives claiming to be moderates than liberals. However, that's just me. I can see clearly that it is different in Oklahoma. Maybe it depends on what party's the majority? Maybe it's more beneficial to be a moderate democrat in Oklahoma than a moderate republican?How would you characterize a New Jersey Libertarian with Green leanings and Bircher geneology? Just how close is that to being a McGovernick?

[SicEmBaylor]

O'Reilly and Hannity both conservatives, but if they can make people think they're moderate then it makes those opposed to them and their policies seem that much more extreme.

Neither Bill O'Reilly nor Sean Hannity (especially) is a legitimate conservative. They are right-wing nationalists with conservative tendencies.

At least O'Reilly is capable of original thought. I honest to God do not understand how someone was stupid and clueless as Sean Hannity can be on national television.

[SicEmBaylor]

I actually love Oklahoma Democrats because they have a lot of the same ideals as Wisconsin Republicans. That's my justification for calling myself a "moderate," but like I said, I have yet to vote for a Democrat. Maybe the dems just need to start running as republicans?

Maybe its a regional thing, because there are definitely some proud conservatives out there, but more often than not, I've witnessed conservatives claiming to be moderates than liberals. However, that's just me. I can see clearly that it is different in Oklahoma. Maybe it depends on what party's the majority? Maybe it's more beneficial to be a moderate democrat in Oklahoma than a moderate republican?

If you like what the Democrat and/or Republicans do on the state level but not necessarily the Federal level then that makes you a federalist not a moderate. It also definitely makes you one of the smarter voters out there. There's absolutely nothing wrong with supporting one party for what they do on the state level but opposing it on the Federal level for the same reason. Like I said, that doesn't make you moderate that makes you a small (f) federalist.

[StoopTroup]

What are you if you like what they do at the federal level and not at the state?

[SicEmBaylor]

O'Reilly IS a moderate. He doesn't understand capitalism/economics very well. IMO if a person isn't an economic conservative, then he's not a conservative.

The problem here, my friend, is that there are very differing opinions as to what precisely an economic conservative is. If economic conservatism means huge tax cuts without responsible and reciprocal cuts in spending then I am not an economic conservative. If economic conservatism means unbridled free trade with anyone then I'm not an economic conservative.

Personally, economic conservatism means economic policies in the Goldwater/Taft model. Classic conservatism.

[olevetonahill]

Im a Member of the "Vast right Wing Conspiracy " :cool:

[StoopTroup]

SicEm...

Are you gonna open a School for s**t like this?

[Sooner_Havok]

This thread is funny. Democrats are far more desperate to be considered moderates than republicans. Personally, I'd rather people just say where they stand and let others decide whether that's liberal or conservative.

Ok. I don't have a problem with gays people, I like my guns, but think there should be some kind of regulations, I don't think everyone should be forced into a national health care but I do think that some health care is needed for those at the bottom of society, I despise subsidies in all their many forms, I think the market can manage itself better than the government can, I think the US government has usurped to much power from local and state governments, I think global warming is real, and that if the central government stopped propping up oil interests the market would be forced into finding alternatives, and I am an atheist. (I only add that last part because it seems that fact disbars me from ever calling myself a "conservative")


I actually love Oklahoma Democrats because they have a lot of the same ideals as Wisconsin Republicans. That's my justification for calling myself a "moderate," but like I said, I have yet to vote for a Democrat. Maybe the dems just need to start running as republicans?

Maybe its a regional thing, because there are definitely some proud conservatives out there, but more often than not, I've witnessed conservatives claiming to be moderates than liberals. However, that's just me. I can see clearly that it is different in Oklahoma. Maybe it depends on what party's the majority? Maybe it's more beneficial to be a moderate democrat in Oklahoma than a moderate republican?

I think that Oklahoma democrats can legitimately call themselves moderates. In the national sense, I think almost all Oklahoma democrats would be seen as moderate republicans. Take Henry to New York, and he would be a republican. Also, I kind of like the Governator for that same reason, he seems pretty centered.

[StoopTroup]

I kind of like the Governator for that same reason, he seems pretty centered.

I agree.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The problem here, my friend, is that there are very differing opinions as to what precisely an economic conservative is. If economic conservatism means huge tax cuts without responsible and reciprocal cuts in spending then I am not an economic conservative. If economic conservatism means unbridled free trade with anyone then I'm not an economic conservative.

Personally, economic conservatism means economic policies in the Goldwater/Taft model. Classic conservatism.What sort of bridles would you accept on the free trade?

[SicEmBaylor]

What are you if you like what they do at the federal level and not at the state?

The same thing.

[shaun4411]

conservatives want things to stay the same, liberals want things to change. which are you?

[SicEmBaylor]

What sort of bridles would you accept on the free trade?

I don't like the fact that any sort of restriction of free trade is considered anti-capitalist. That idea is even more absurd when you consider that the entire basis for our early economy was tariffs and tariffs were virtually the single source of revenue for the Federal government. I'm a fan of targeted tariffs. In general, I think free trade is beneficial but I don't like long term permanent free-trade treaties that may not always be beneficial for us. I think we ought to reserve the right to do what is in our interests at any particular moment without being restricted by a binding treaty.

I'm certainly not an economist, but it seems to me that free trade can only really be fair if the free trade is between two economically comparable nations. I honestly do not know how American industry is to be expected to compete with labor and costs as high as they are in this nation compared to how cheap it is elsewhere. American labor unions and the government have saddled American business and industry with so many rules, regulations, and costs that they've almost succeeded in putting American industry out of work. The reason that I don't ALWAYS favor free trade as if it's the answer to every economic solution is that we make American industry start the race a mile behind the rest of the pack and then expect it to win the race.

Like I said, in principle real free trade is great but I'm a firm believer in the occasional need for targeted and, hopefully, short term tariffs in some instances in order to give American industry a fighting chance.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

conservatives want things to stay the same, liberals want things to change. which are you?Can you say loose cannon?

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm...

Are you gonna open a School for s**t like this?

If by **** you mean properly understanding the role of the local, state, and Federal government then the answer is, I wish.

What I am trying to get across here is that progressive social policy isn't that bad as long as it's done properly on the state level. I value limited-government, but I could almost agree to things like a state health care program, a retirement security program, etc. if it were done at the state level. In other words, while my position on some of those issues is flexible at the state level I absolutely totally oppose it on the Federal level. That's what I was trying to tell Badger -- it's okay to champion a party because of their positions on the state level while believing those same positions are out of place at a different level of government. She thought it made her a moderate, but I think it just makes her a good voter.

[badger]

conservatives want things to stay the same, liberals want things to change. which are you?

Depends on if I like things the way they are.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't like the fact that any sort of restriction of free trade is considered anti-capitalist. That idea is even more absurd when you consider that the entire basis for our early economy was tariffs and tariffs were virtually the single source of revenue for the Federal government. I'm a fan of targeted tariffs. In general, I think free trade is beneficial but I don't like long term permanent free-trade treaties that may not always be beneficial for us. I think we ought to reserve the right to do what is in our interests at any particular moment without being restricted by a binding treaty.

I'm certainly not an economist, but it seems to me that free trade can only really be fair if the free trade is between two economically comparable nations. I honestly do not know how American industry is to be expected to compete with labor and costs as high as they are in this nation compared to how cheap it is elsewhere. American labor unions and the government have saddled American business and industry with so many rules, regulations, and costs that they've almost succeeded in putting American industry out of work. The reason that I don't ALWAYS favor free trade as if it's the answer to every economic solution is that we make American industry start the race a mile behind the rest of the pack and then expect it to win the race.

Like I said, in principle real free trade is great but I'm a firm believer in the occasional need for targeted and, hopefully, short term tariffs in some instances in order to give American industry a fighting chance.Better yet for the US and state govts. to not screw with American business as badly as they do. Also, I'm thinking of international tariffs and prohibitions that pertain to security considerations. (sorry 'bout the threadjack, badger)

[badger]

(sorry 'bout the threadjack, badger)

All threads get jacked eventually, it's inevitable, much like presidential candidates moving to the center before the general election.

That should be a theme of a motivational poster - inevitability.

How bout this?

Inevitability: Because stuff never changes.

Accompanying picture:
http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=493&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=3152937
:D This is a Sooner message board, after alll :D

[tommieharris91]

Restriction of free trade (within a country) is anti-capitalist because it forces firms to keep their business within its own country. It harms exports, and increasing exports helps GDP. Forcing firms to keep their products within a country rather than export their products where they can make a higher profit is a restriction on capitalism.

I've always thought of capitalism as a wanting to reduce controls on private business, while socialism is favoring such controls. I hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from here.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from here.Lotsa help! I always thoght you were from Frnobulac, or some such location.

[BigRedJed]

The problem with labeling people with strictly "conservative" or strictly "liberal" labels is that most people are neither. MOST people fall somewhere in between, and beyond that, most people are "conservative" in some areas and "liberal" in others.

[mdklatt]

Why are liberals so self proclaimin' "liberal" but conservatives want to convince you they're not really conservatives?


I don't think this is true. Both sides want to view their positions as "moderate", because that makes them look less extreme while making opposition look even more extreme. There's also the human herd mentality at work, where everybody wants to cling together in the middle.

Maybe this a tagent, but maybe not. Why do people do the same thing in regards to income? Few people will admit that they're wealthy (and they'll flat out deny it when the subject of income taxes comes up), but many people go out of their way to make others think that they are.

[Sooner_Havok]

I don't think this is true. Both sides want to view their positions as "moderate", because that makes them look less extreme while making opposition look even more extreme. There's also the human herd mentality at work, where everybody wants to cling together in the middle.

Maybe this a tagent, but maybe not. Why do people do the same thing in regards to income? Few people will admit that they're wealthy (and they'll flat out deny it when the subject of income taxes comes up), but many people go out of their way to make others think that they are.

Not many people will admit to being poor either. I', not talking about the guy who says he can't go out tonight cause he is poor, I am talking admitting that you can barely afford food and what not.

[mdklatt]

Not many people will admit to being poor either. I', not talking about the guy who says he can't go out tonight cause he is poor, I am talking admitting that you can barely afford food and what not.

That's kind of the same thing. Nobody wants to admit that they're too far from average in certain contexts. Except for driving. Nearly everybody thinks that they are an above-average driver, but at least half of us are wrong.

[Sooner_Havok]

That's kind of the same thing. Nobody wants to admit that they're too far from average in certain contexts. Except for driving. Nearly everybody thinks that they are an above-average driver, but at least half of us are wrong.

God knows I am. If I didn't do my driving after 2am, I would have some problems :eek:

[reevie]

Most people are moderate, there are pros to each side, but since there are only two sides there are also cons.

Over 60% of registered voters in Oklahoma are Democrats. Only 5 times has the state voted for a Republican Gov. But a Democrat Presidential candidate hasn't carried Oklahoma since 1964. I say the answer is simple, politics is local and the National party doesn't reflect the local party. That's why Badger's assessment that Oklahoma Democrats and Wisconsin Republicans are about the same makes sense.

[Rogue]

BRJ is right. Me, I'm a bleedin' heart gun-totin' liberal.
And, SicEm, not everyone agrees with you that states are better than centralized gubmint. I was shocked and amazed (shocked and amazed I tell ya) when a friend of mine who is verrrrry conservative kicked out his soapbox and preached about the parochialism that is states' rights. Never thought I'd see the day. I understand about having accountability by having gubmint close to you, but in the information age we just have too many damn layers of gubmint.

Do I really need City, County, State, and Federal layers of gubmint? I don't think I do.

[Sooner_Havok]

BRJ is right. Me, I'm a bleedin' heart gun-totin' liberal.
And, SicEm, not everyone agrees with you that states are better than centralized gubmint. I was shocked and amazed (shocked and amazed I tell ya) when a friend of mine who is verrrrry conservative kicked out his soapbox and preached about the parochialism that is states' rights. Never thought I'd see the day. I understand about having accountability by having gubmint close to you, but in the information age we just have too many damn layers of gubmint.

Do I really need City, County, State, and Federal layers of gubmint? I don't think I do.

But, the layers are there to protect you...until something happens, then the layers always differ accountability up to the next higher layer.

Don't you love our system!

[badger]

That's kind of the same thing. Nobody wants to admit that they're too far from average in certain contexts. Except for driving. Nearly everybody thinks that they are an above-average driver, but at least half of us are wrong.

And knowledge. Everyone I meet thinks they're above average. I graduated high school, I'm smart. I have a B average, I'm smart. I'm an honors student, I'm smart.

There are definitely certain respects where people want to be seen as un-average.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Do I really need City, County, State, and Federal layers of gubmint? I don't think I do.Do they need you? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT...PONY UP$$$!!!

[SicEmBaylor]

I understand about having accountability by having gubmint close to you, but in the information age we just have too many damn layers of gubmint.

Do I really need City, County, State, and Federal layers of gubmint? I don't think I do.

No, but if we're going to eliminate layers of government let's do it from top to bottom.

[Frozen Sooner]

Moderate is a comparative term. I'm probably more moderate than I present myself most of the time, but I prefer to think of myself as a mixed extremist. :D

[Scott D]

I prefer to think of myself as a loose cannon.

But that might also be because I see the governmental structure to be the equivalent of a wheel missing about half it's spokes, and the rest of you to just see the wheel and that it's spinning, blindly ignoring the fact that it's obviously broken.

[Harry Beanbag]

conservatives want things to stay the same, liberals want things to change. which are you?


This is a tired, worn out, and plain wrong oversimplification. Both sides have core beliefs that they strive for, whether that means changing things or keeping them the way they are.

[shaun4411]

well, we all want to keep our core beliefs, and that is the epitome of wanting something to stay the same. i feel i am a progressive person, but i dont give fellatio to the idea a constant state of change.

[badger]

I can't believe some naysayer hasn't one-starred this thread yet. Usually conversations get one-starred by now. South Oval, you are SLIPPING.

Oh, wait - South Oval, you are self-proclaimed MODERATES. Haha, you're moderate. You're so boring and average and normal now. Tee hee, so moderate. Want things to change? NO, of course not! Want things to stay the same? Hell, no! Well, what should happen then, oh moderate South Oval? We should change things so that they remain the same! Good call, moderate SO. Good call.

:D:D:D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I can't believe some naysayer hasn't one-starred this thread yet. Usually conversations get one-starred by now. South Oval, you are SLIPPING.



:D:D:DWhat a shameless example of coarse begging[hairGel]

[badger]

What a shameless example of coarse begging[hairGel]

Well, it worked, right?

In other news, Mack Brown goes to the Rose Bowl instead of Cal :D:D:D

[C&CDean]

I believe in God.
I believe in the right to own/bear arms - as many and whatever kind I want.
I believe abortion is murder.
I believe that when you commit pre-mediated murder you should be executed.
I believe that when you commit sexual crimes against children you should be executed.
I believe that when you've commited multiple sexual crimes against anyone you should be executed.
I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but if two dudes wanna **** in privacy then knock yourselves out. However, don't show me, tell me, and most of all don't ask me to sanction your deviant behavior.
I believe that if you're willing to work hard enough to be successful you should be allowed to keep/reap the rewards of that hard work.
I believe that welfare is a travesty.
I believe that seatbelt laws, helmet laws, and any other laws designed to protect me from myself are stupid. I also believe not wearing a seat belt is stupid.
I believe that Social Security needs to go away.
I believe that socialized medicine will always fail.
I believe in complete and total personal accountability for your actions. Your daddy raped you so now you go rape somebody else? Tough ****, say goodnight.

So, I don't know, am I a moderate?

[badger]

I believe in God.
I believe in the right to own/bear arms - as many and whatever kind I want.
I believe abortion is murder.
I believe that when you commit pre-mediated murder you should be executed.
I believe that when you commit sexual crimes against children you should be executed.
I believe that when you've commited multiple sexual crimes against anyone you should be executed.
I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but if two dudes wanna **** in privacy then knock yourselves out. However, don't show me, tell me, and most of all don't ask me to sanction your deviant behavior.
I believe that if you're willing to work hard enough to be successful you should be allowed to keep/reap the rewards of that hard work.
I believe that welfare is a travesty.
I believe that seatbelt laws, helmet laws, and any other laws designed to protect me from myself are stupid. I also believe not wearing a seat belt is stupid.
I believe that Social Security needs to go away.
I believe that socialized medicine will always fail.
I believe in complete and total personal accountability for your actions. Your daddy raped you so now you go rape somebody else? Tough ****, say goodnight.

So, I don't know, am I a moderate?

:( You don't believe in Packers? :(

[C&CDean]

:( You don't believe in Packers? :(

Sooners/Packers - some things are natural and self evident and one does not need to even mention it.

[badger]

Sooners/Packers - some things are natural and self evident.

:D I hold that truth to be self evident :D