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Okla-homey
7/12/2008, 07:44 PM
Rasmussen, the generally most accurate polling outfit declares...


Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Saturday, July 12, 2008

The race for the White House is tied. The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows Barack Obama and John McCain each attract 43% of the vote. When "leaners" are included, Obama holds a statistically insignificant 47% to 46% advantage. Today is the first time that McCainís support has moved above 45% since Obama clinched the nomination on June 3. Itís also the first time the candidates have been tied since Obama clinched the Democratic nomination (see recent daily results). Tracking Polls are released at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time each day (see recent demographic highlights).

Thus, looks like whoever wins, is only gonna enjoy the support of about half the folks. Kinda like now. Right and left coasts BHO. Middle JSM.

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 07:47 PM
Apparently not everyone knows that Obama has promised:


CHANGE!!!



cause if they did he'd be kicking butt. ;)

olevetonahill
7/12/2008, 07:49 PM
Ive gota jar full of Change . Think Ill send it JM :D

Okla-homey
7/12/2008, 07:58 PM
change schmange.

All your high-profile dictators of the twentieth century rode that pony to power.

Mussolini promised to make the trains run on time and put people back to work. Hitler promised everyone a Volkswagen and a job. Lenin promised a workers paradise.

Those "change agents" aren't held in particularly high regard these days. The Russians tore down all Lenin's statues and re-renamed St. Petersburg. The Italians hung Il Duce's corpse upside down from a lamppost. The Germans, well, you know. In fact, some retired German cop ripped the head off the new Hitler display at the the wax museum in Berlin last week to thunderous applause.


One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fire was burning
Down the track came a hobo hiking and he said boys I'm not turning
I'm headin for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountains
So come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains there's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees
Where the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft boiled eggs
The farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hay
Oh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall and the wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew and of whiskey too
You can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again as soon as you are in
There ain't no short handled shovels, no axes saws or picks
I'm a goin to stay where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk that invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains

Frozen Sooner
7/12/2008, 08:15 PM
Rasmussen, the generally most Republican-leaning polling outfit...




Rassmussen consistently tracks Democrats 2-3% lower than most other polls.

Just sayin'.

reevie
7/12/2008, 09:30 PM
Popular poles don't mean anything. Show me how that translates to the electoral college and who gets 270.

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 09:32 PM
Popular poles don't mean anything. Show me how that translates to the electoral college and who gets 270.

Karl Rove?

olevetonahill
7/12/2008, 09:44 PM
Karl Rove?

My Dog Biznacho , If you ****ers will commit we can raise funds By having Beer bust and shat .
:D

King Crimson
7/12/2008, 09:55 PM
yet another Obama can't win thread and here's why from Homey.

Chuck Bao
7/12/2008, 10:24 PM
I still think that Obama is the best candidate.

But, I'm not so opposed to McCain, as long as he promises to not take along any of those in the Bush administration.

We really do need "change."

Flagstaffsooner
7/12/2008, 10:32 PM
I still think that Obama is the best candidate.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/79/227602083_c503cb543b.jpg?v=0

olevetonahill
7/12/2008, 10:52 PM
In all Honesty I think JM wins BIG
Folks who Now say they want change are Gonna realize we are Still at war with the Terrorist. I Much prefer a Proven warrior over an Unknown.
Obama May be the Best dude for the Job In a Peace time thing But Folks the Terrorist Crap is gonna go on a Long time . and You aint gonna Negotiate with em.
Just sayin

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 11:05 PM
When it comes right down to it I don't think Obama can win either. Oh it's cool right now (in some circles) for peeps to say they'll vote for him, but when it gets right down to it and they realize he's just a pretty talkin empty suit, and the Kool Aid ain't having the same intoxicating effect, then I just don't see him getting it done.

olevetonahill
7/12/2008, 11:08 PM
When it comes right down to it I don't think Obama can win either. Oh it's cool right now (in some circles) for peeps to say they'll vote for him, but when it gets right down to it and they realize he's just a pretty talkin empty suit, and the Kool Aid ain't having the same intoxicating effect, then I just don't see him getting it done.

Yup It aint Just CHANGE
Its havin the Balls to Take it to them befor THEY bring it to Us AGAIN .
A Man thats Been tortured May be a Lunitic But he aint gonna take NO shat from Other Lunitics
Just sayin.

Chuck Bao
7/12/2008, 11:14 PM
Ahem...when are you folks going to realize that it's not about the terrorists. It's about the economy. The terrorists aren't going to bother to **** with us when we are a third world economy.

olevetonahill
7/12/2008, 11:18 PM
Ahem...when are you folks going to realize that it's not about the terrorists. It's about the economy. The terrorists aren't going to bother to **** with us when we are a third world economy.

So chukles You sayin we should just roll over fer the Chinks and the Arabs ?
I dont think so :P
Now dont take that tongue thing the wrong way .:D :eek:

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 11:20 PM
Ahem...when are you folks going to realize that it's not about the terrorists. It's about the economy. The terrorists aren't going to bother to **** with us when we are a third world economy.

I never mentioned the economy: I said he's a pretty talkin, empty suit, that right now is riding the cool factor.

...and besides that how is raising taxes and increasing social spending supposed to help the economy, unless of course you're on welfare?

olevetonahill
7/12/2008, 11:25 PM
I never mentioned the economy: I said he's a pretty talkin, empty suit, that right now is riding the cool factor.

...and besides that how is raising taxes and increasing social spending supposed to help the economy, unless of course you're on welfare?

2 dudes walkin outa the Free food place , 2 white guys want some of that ther Gubmint cheese ! so they Knock the 1st 2 Out and Grab the Cheese when the get Home 1st dude says Great I got Cheddar what you get 2nd dude say Nacho . 1st dude says WTF are you talking about ? WTF Kind is that ? 2nd dude says Hell If I know the Dude I took it from was yelling Hey thatsnatcho Cheese.:D
Bad form I know But hell :pop:

Chuck Bao
7/12/2008, 11:25 PM
So chukles You sayin we should just roll over fer the Chinks and the Arabs ?
I dont think so :P
Now dont take that tongue thing the wrong way .:D :eek:

I'm saying that we already did. NOW, is change such a bad thing?

On a side note, how many of McCain's political advisors represent foreign governments? Is McCain for us or against us? Never in the history of the US has big corporations been so anti-American. Wake up, people!

Tulsa_Fireman
7/12/2008, 11:28 PM
*rimshot!*

Ladies and gentlemen, he'll be here all week.

TopDawg
7/12/2008, 11:28 PM
change schmange.


Exactly. I'd much prefer the "Fresh Start" Bush promised in 2000.

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 11:28 PM
NOW, is change such a bad thing?

..but WTF is it? Change what? and how?

Lets just utter the magic word and get elected:

CHANGE!!!!

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 11:30 PM
2 dudes walkin outa the Free food place , 2 white guys want some of that ther Gubmint cheese ! so they Knock the 1st 2 Out and Grab the Cheese when the get Home 1st dude says Great I got Cheddar what you get 2nd dude say Nacho . 1st dude says WTF are you talking about ? WTF Kind is that ? 2nd dude says Hell If I know the Dude I took it from was yelling Hey thatsnatcho Cheese.:D
Bad form I know But hell :pop:

Bad form indeed, but that's part of why it's funny.

Tulsa_Fireman
7/12/2008, 11:30 PM
CHANGE!!!!


CHANGE!!!!

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 11:32 PM
CHANGE!!!!

You said the magic word. We choose you sir to be the next leader of the free world.

Tulsa_Fireman
7/12/2008, 11:34 PM
My first declaration as King... I mean, El Presidente, is that we, uhhhh, change. Stuff. And things.

It's good t' be the king.

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/world/images/goodkng2.jpg

Curly Bill
7/12/2008, 11:35 PM
My first declaration as King... I mean, El Presidente, is that we, uhhhh, change. Stuff. And things.

It's good t' be the king.

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/world/images/goodkng2.jpg

LOL :D

olevetonahill
7/13/2008, 12:02 AM
My first declaration as King... I mean, El Presidente, is that we, uhhhh, change. Stuff. And things.

It's good t' be the king.

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/world/images/goodkng2.jpg

I may Vote for you over Biznacho
:confused:

Tulsa_Fireman
7/13/2008, 12:07 AM
Vote for me, big jugs in every house!

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 05:58 AM
yet another Obama can't win thread and here's why from Homey.

Not at all. Merely that Rasmussen has the race even. I beleive BHO can win, if the under 25 crowd and loonies all turn out to vote, and enough moderates and libertarians decide he's the lesser of two evils and "x" his box.

King Crimson
7/13/2008, 06:09 AM
Not at all. Merely that Rasmussen has the race even. I beleive BHO can win, if the under 25 crowd and loonies all turn out to vote, and enough moderates and libertarians decide he's the lesser of two evils and "x" his box.

i don't think the "youth vote" has ever swayed a POTUS election, that i can remember. it gets talked about every time around, but actual results...show me.

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 06:13 AM
Rassmussen consistently tracks Democrats 2-3% lower than most other polls.

Just sayin'.

Newsweek, clearly not a GOP organ, has it even too.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/145737

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 06:18 AM
i don't think the "youth vote" has ever swayed a POTUS election, that i can remember. it gets talked about every time around, but actual results...show me.

That fact must keep them awake at night worrying. As I recall, that was Governor Dean and Ron Paul's core demographic. Youngsters talk a good game but...they often don't even bother to register to vote. I'm trying to remember if I ever voted while I was in college. I don't think I did.:eek:

JohnnyMack
7/13/2008, 08:54 AM
John McCain makes Bob Dole look enthusiastic.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/13/2008, 09:55 AM
John McCain makes Bob Dole look PRINCIPLED.Fixed

Scott D
7/13/2008, 10:01 AM
change schmange.

All your high-profile dictators of the twentieth century rode that pony to power.

Mussolini promised to make the trains run on time and put people back to work. Hitler promised everyone a Volkswagen and a job. Lenin promised a workers paradise.

Those "change agents" aren't held in particularly high regard these days. The Russians tore down all Lenin's statues and re-renamed St. Petersburg. The Italians hung Il Duce's corpse upside down from a lamppost. The Germans, well, you know. In fact, some retired German cop ripped the head off the new Hitler display at the the wax museum in Berlin last week to thunderous applause.

Wow, I feel better knowing that Barack Obama is nothing more than a two bit dictator riding the "change train" to a landslide victory so that we can start killing the Jews or whatever the hell the current agenda will be.

Harry Beanbag
7/13/2008, 10:16 AM
I find it surprising that people still give credence to any polls anymore. They can't even get exit polls right, why would any others be worth the toilet paper they're written on.

Harry Beanbag
7/13/2008, 10:18 AM
Wow, I feel better knowing that Barack Obama is nothing more than a two bit dictator riding the "change train" to a landslide victory so that we can start killing the Jews or whatever the hell the current agenda will be.


The agenda will have to be something different, I think Bush!tler has probably just about taken care of the Jews by now. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/icons/bush.gif

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 10:20 AM
I find it surprising that people still give credence to any polls anymore. They can't even get exit polls right, why would any others be worth the toilet paper they're written on.

IMHO, they are important for their effect on folks. If people begin to believe polls indicate Candidate A has it sewed-up, it tends to let air out of Candidate B's balloon. Thus, they are more important in the run-up to the election than on Election day.

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 10:23 AM
Wow, I feel better knowing that Barack Obama is nothing more than a two bit dictator riding the "change train" to a landslide victory so that we can start killing the Jews or whatever the hell the current agenda will be.


All I'm saying is people need to look deeper than the "change" label to see what's inside a guy. And the fact a lot of harm has been done in the name of "change." It's a powerful tool to sway the disaffected.

King Crimson
7/13/2008, 10:30 AM
All I'm saying is people need to look deeper than the "change" label to see what's inside a guy. And the fact a lot of harm has been done in the name of "change." It's a powerful tool to sway the disaffected.

so, that's hilarious. demagoguery is an exclusive province of the left, OK. now, apparently BOTH fascism and communism are creature comforts of the libs.

what sort of evil can't the "Leftists" or "the Media" be blamed for....?

there's some great political theory going on here.

Jerk
7/13/2008, 11:22 AM
I am really disturbed and mystified as to why the Saviour of the World doesn't have a 100% rating in the polls. He claims to be able to stop the seas from rising, to heal the sick, and uplift the poor. What kind of flying dickwheel would vote against that?

Harry Beanbag
7/13/2008, 11:28 AM
http://drx.typepad.com/psychotherapyblog/images/2007/12/24/obama_halo.jpg

StoopTroup
7/13/2008, 11:29 AM
Bring OBL to justice!

Scott D
7/13/2008, 11:31 AM
All I'm saying is people need to look deeper than the "change" label to see what's inside a guy. And the fact a lot of harm has been done in the name of "change." It's a powerful tool to sway the disaffected.

yeah, keep telling yourself that lie. You'll believe it one day.

StoopTroup
7/13/2008, 11:40 AM
I have read quite a bit about both men now...

Since John McCain has had more time on this Earth to affect change than Barrack Obama....

I seriously think Obama has a huge edge on McCain in believeability.

McCain is simply just another one of those Candidates that is being put into the race based on him being "Qualified" and the "Best" the Republican Party has to offer. If he was the "Best" he would have been President for the last 7 1/2 years instead of Bush. McCain anyday was a better Candidate than Bush even if there was no term limits.

McCain will be crushed by the popular vote...but who knows...maybe Florida will get him in there like they did Bush.

King Crimson
7/13/2008, 12:39 PM
John McCain 08=Dick Gephardt.

nothing=nothing.

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 01:08 PM
John McCain 08=Dick Gephardt.

nothing=nothing.

here are some trends from the last half of the twentieth century through today. Think of the relative positions of the candidates plotted on a continueum.

In a race between two moderates, the one with the most personal charisma wins. That explains Clinton v. Dole, Clinton v. Bush I and JFK v. RMN.

In a race between a moderate and far left guy. The moderate will win because most Americans are a tad right of dead center. That explains Nixon v. McGovern, Nixon v. Humphrey, Bush II v. Gore, and Bush II v. Kerry.

In a race between a far left and a far right guy, the far right guy wins because most Americans are a tad right of dead center. That explains both Reagan's victories.

In a race between a Moderate and a far right guy (only happened once: LBJ v. Barry Goldwater in 1964), the moderate won because he was closer to where most people are (a tad right of dead center) than the far right guy.

I guess we'll see if this holds up in this fall. I also think this realization is why BHO is moving toward the center. This country has never elected a far left guy.

Frozen Sooner
7/13/2008, 01:34 PM
Newsweek, clearly not a GOP organ, has it even too.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/145737

Newsweek is also the one who reported a 15 point lead just a couple of weeks ago. Methinks their polling methodology might be a bit screwy.

Frozen Sooner
7/13/2008, 01:35 PM
here are some trends from the last half of the twentieth century through today. Think of the relative positions of the candidates plotted on a continueum.

In a race between two moderates, the one with the most personal charisma wins. That explains Clinton v. Dole, Clinton v. Bush I and JFK v. RMN.

In a race between a moderate and far left guy. The moderate will win because most Americans are a tad right of dead center. That explains Nixon v. McGovern, Nixon v. Humphrey, Bush II v. Gore, and Bush II v. Kerry.

In a race between a far left and a far right guy, the far right guy wins because most Americans are a tad right of dead center. That explains both Reagan's victories.

In a race between a Moderate and a far right guy (only happened once: LBJ v. Barry Goldwater in 1964), the moderate won because he was closer to where most people are (a tad right of dead center) than the far right guy.

I guess we'll see if this holds up in this fall. I also think this realization is why BHO is moving toward the center. This country has never elected a far left guy.

Except the same one four times.

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 05:13 PM
Except the same one four times.

FDR didn't have a reputation as a lefty when he ran the first time. He earned his political spurs by taking down the uber-corrupt NY Tammany Machine. He had also been SECNAV under Wilson, was a patrician with old money and former governor of one of the most populous states. In 1932 he ran against an incumbent Herbert Hoover who didn't stand a chance amid a full-on Depression in which people were quite literally starving to death across the Fruited Plain.

With all due respect, the current circumstances in this country don't compare. In '32, we were literally on the verge of anarchy. FDR mobilized the expanded ranks of the poor as well as organized labor, ethnic minorities, urban dwellers, and Southern whites in crafting the "New Deal" coalition. Once FDR got in, he stayed because the folks were hurtin' and he gave them soup and jobs. Then there was that minor matter of WWII and not wanting to change horses in mid-stream that accounted for the final re-election.

Frozen Sooner
7/13/2008, 05:48 PM
Oh, man, thanks. I'd forgotten Wilson. So that's TWO far left-wingers that got elected.

Chuck Bao
7/13/2008, 05:57 PM
As we face the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, we may need an FDR type to help straighten out this mess.

King Crimson
7/13/2008, 06:01 PM
the "Real Conservatives" are going to need to do better than the "style over substance" criticism. because they think it works backwards...the absence of style does not necessarily imply "substance" or gravitas or the "Straight Talk Express".

Big Red Ron
7/13/2008, 06:15 PM
Anyone remember Al Gore and John Kerry's 15 point leads, in July? How'd that work out?

Obama is on pace to lose Dukakis style. Seriously, he needs to do something spectacular, and quick to win this thing.

Big Red Ron
7/13/2008, 06:19 PM
:rolleyes:
As we face the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, we may need an FDR type to help straighten out this mess.
Wow, hyperbole much? Jeez Luise, some of you need to read for yourselves and read the actual info, not a summarization by a political organization.

StoopTroup
7/13/2008, 06:22 PM
Even Texans are turning their backs on McCain. :D ;)

Miss USA Crystle Stewart (seen here last week) has no idea whether she'll take the crown at the Miss Universe contest on July 14, but she's already decided who's got her vote in the White House race -- Barack Obama.

http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/crystle-stewart-becomes-miss-usa-2008-from-texas-america.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse)

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 07:01 PM
Even Texans are turning their backs on McCain. :D ;)

Miss USA Crystle Stewart (seen here last week) has no idea whether she'll take the crown at the Miss Universe contest on July 14, but she's already decided who's got her vote in the White House race -- Barack Obama.

http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/crystle-stewart-becomes-miss-usa-2008-from-texas-america.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse)

In other news, scientists have definitively concluded the Sun is hot.;)

JohnnyMack
7/13/2008, 07:04 PM
John McCain's website says "reform" across the top of it, which we all know is totally different than change.

StoopTroup
7/13/2008, 07:04 PM
:D

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 07:12 PM
:rolleyes:
Wow, hyperbole much? Jeez Luise, some of you need to read for yourselves and read the actual info, not a summarization by a political organization.


I agree. Anyone who thinks this little pickle we find ourselves in is even close to conditions of 1932 needs to get a library card and read a book. Or better yet, spend a couple hours at the Oklahoma History Center.

Frankly, I blame our current pickle on three things, not necessarily in priority order. 1) predatory lending, 2) the exploding US illegitimate birth rate and 3) the fact India and China are, for the first time, competing with us for OPEC oil.

I'm not sure anyone could fix the second two things on that list. We can put the smackdown on predatory lenders with new statutes making it a crime to take a mortgage on place you know full well the mortgagor is likely to default on. But that's the brain-dead single-digit-approval-rated Donk Congress's lane. Not the President's

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/13/2008, 07:15 PM
Even Texans are turning their backs on McCain. :D ;)

Miss USA Crystle Stewart (seen here last week) has no idea whether she'll take the crown at the Miss Universe contest on July 14, but she's already decided who's got her vote in the White House race -- Barack Obama.

http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/crystle-stewart-becomes-miss-usa-2008-from-texas-america.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse)Cripes! Why didn't you say so before. Put me down for the Change!

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 07:20 PM
Oh, man, thanks. I'd forgotten Wilson. So that's TWO far left-wingers that got elected.

Yep, you Donks like to forget your boy Woodrow Wilson who drug us into war in which we had nothing at stake and had not been attacked and got a 116,000 US kids killed in a little over a year for no good purpose.;)

Again, Wilson was no lefty. He was raised in privilege in Columbia SC and was an academic. He was an idealist, but he was no "take from the rich and give to the poor" type lefty.

StoopTroup
7/13/2008, 07:26 PM
Homey...

Didn't Wilson realize he was making a mistake when he got us into the War?

I thought he felt he really had no choice but to get us involved.

It's been awhile since my last Government History class but I seem to remember he didn't just make that decision easily.

Okla-homey
7/13/2008, 07:32 PM
Homey...

Didn't Wilson realize he was making a mistake when he got us into the War?

I thought he felt he really had no choice but to get us involved.

It's been awhile since my last Government History class but I seem to remember he didn't just make that decision easily.

ST,

While I think it was marvelous we came to the aid of our European cousins, US involvement was absolutely unnecessary and ill-advised. In fact, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, we know that had the Germans and the French been allowed to bleed each other white, and called it a draw, Hitler probably wouldn't have happened. The armistice and cruel terms imposed on Imperial Germany achieved by virtue of our weighing-in set Europe up for the cataclysm of the 1940's.

Frozen Sooner
7/13/2008, 07:33 PM
Yep, you Donks like to forget your boy Woodrow Wilson who drug us into war in which we had nothing at stake and had not been attacked and got a 116,000 US kids killed in a little over a year for no good purpose.;)

Again, Wilson was no lefty. He was raised in privilege in Columbia SC and was an academic. He was an idealist, but he was no "take from the rich and give to the poor" type lefty.

Gee, and here I thought that you guys thought all academics were liberals and condemned limousine liberals. Who knew?


He proved highly successful in leading a Democratic Congress to pass major legislation that included the Federal Trade Commission, the Clayton Antitrust Act, the Underwood Tariff, the Federal Farm Loan Act and most notably the Federal Reserve System. [2][3]

Narrowly re-elected in 1916, his second term centered on World War I. He tried to maintain U.S. neutrality, but when the German Empire began unrestricted submarine warfare he wrote several admonishing notes to Germany, and eventually asked Congress to declare war on the Central Powers. He focused on diplomacy and financial considerations, leaving the waging of the war primarily in the hands of the military establishment. On the home front, he began the first effective draft in 1917, raised billions in war funding through Liberty Bonds, imposed an income tax, enacted the first federal drug prohibition, set up the War Industries Board, promoted labor union growth, supervised agriculture and food production through the Lever Act, took over control of the railroads, and suppressed anti-war movements. He paid surprisingly little attention to military affairs, but provided the funding and food supplies that helped the Americans in the war and hastened Allied victory in 1918.

Hm.

Frozen Sooner
7/13/2008, 07:34 PM
ST,

While I think it was marvelous we came to the aid of our European cousins, US involvement was absolutely unnecessary and ill-advised. In fact, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, we know that had the Germans and the French been allowed to bleed each other white, and called it a draw, Hitler probably wouldn't have happened. The armistice and cruel terms imposed on Imperial Germany achieved by virtue of our weighing-in set Europe up for the cataclysm of the 1940's.

Cruel terms which Wilson argued vehemently against.

Chuck Bao
7/13/2008, 08:34 PM
I agree. Anyone who thinks this little pickle we find ourselves in is even close to conditions of 1932 needs to get a library card and read a book. Or better yet, spend a couple hours at the Oklahoma History Center.

Frankly, I blame our current pickle on three things, not necessarily in priority order. 1) predatory lending, 2) the exploding US illegitimate birth rate and 3) the fact India and China are, for the first time, competing with us for OPEC oil.

I'm not sure anyone could fix the second two things on that list. We can put the smackdown on predatory lenders with new statutes making it a crime to take a mortgage on place you know full well the mortgagor is likely to default on. But that's the brain-dead single-digit-approval-rated Donk Congress's lane. Not the President's

Either you need admit that you haven't a clue or go ahead and dig a bigger hole in the sand for your head.

This is the biggest financial crisis to hit the US SINCE the Great Depression. There is little doubt about that. Trust me, there is a lot of very, very bad news to come out.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mc together own or guarantee US$5 trillion worth of mortgages, or roughly half of the US home loan debt. Furthermore, market confidence has been shattered by last Fridayís news that the FDIC had taken over IndyMac Bancorp Inc. in one of the biggest US bank failures ever.

We have only started to see the latest leg of the downward spiral.

The US Fed is increasingly unlikely to raise interest rates with the financial situation in such a fix. The dollar is going further down and inflation and oil prices will continue to rise.

The worst of all of it is that the US manufacturing sector still won't be competitive in the global even with the weak dollar.

We need new thinking and new leadership. THAT, my friends, is call for change.

Do you want it spelt out any more plainly?

AlbqSooner
7/13/2008, 08:39 PM
Martin Huan (pronounced Owen) was a political consultant in several Oklahoma elections in the 50s through the 70s. He wrote a book titled, "How to Win Elections Without Hardly Cheating at All". In the book he makes the comment that in any election every candidate but the incumbent thinks it is "time for a change". Hence the parsing of "Change" and "Reform".

As for the youth vote, McGovern had the youth vote sewed up in the '72 election. FWIW.

Jerk
7/13/2008, 08:56 PM
Either you need admit that you haven't a clue or go ahead and dig a bigger hole in the sand for your head.

This is the biggest financial crisis to hit the US SINCE the Great Depression. There is little doubt about that. Trust me, there is a lot of very, very bad news to come out.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mc together own or guarantee US$5 trillion worth of mortgages, or roughly half of the US home loan debt. Furthermore, market confidence has been shattered by last Fridayís news that the FDIC had taken over IndyMac Bancorp Inc. in one of the biggest US bank failures ever.

We have only started to see the latest leg of the downward spiral.

The US Fed is increasingly unlikely to raise interest rates with the financial situation in such a fix. The dollar is going further down and inflation and oil prices will continue to rise.

The worst of all of it is that the US manufacturing sector still won't be competitive in the global even with the weak dollar.

We need new thinking and new leadership. THAT, my friends, is call for change.

Do you want it spelt out any more plainly?

Now, you don't need to get angry. Just keep saying how bad everything is, and I'm sure one day it will be. That is, unless Obama wins. His mere presence in the white house will change the outlook, I'm sure.

Jerk
7/13/2008, 09:18 PM
Btw - China's stock market is down 56% since October, and I keep reading that their economy is about to collapse.

Would that be Bush's fault?

Jerk
7/13/2008, 09:21 PM
This is the biggest financial crisis to hit the US SINCE the Great Depression.

The NYT says you fail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/business/14bank.html?_r=2&ref=business&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


The nation’s banks are in far less danger than they were in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when more than 1,000 federally insured institutions went under during the savings-and-loan crisis. The debacle, the greatest collapse of American financial institutions since the Depression, prompted a government bailout that cost taxpayers about $125 billion.

Aren't Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac government creations? And you want the same people to run your health care?

Sooner Eclipse
7/13/2008, 09:24 PM
This is the biggest financial crisis to hit the US SINCE the Great Depression. There is little doubt about that. Trust me, there is a lot of very, very bad news to come out.

Apparently you aren't old enough or don't remember the 70's. You know, that wonderful decade of recession, 20+% interest rates, and a general state of pessimism about the whole country.


We have only started to see the latest leg of the downward spiral.

We can stem this tide if we get serious about developing alternative energies as well as begin to develop every domestic source of oil and NG NOW. Also, justifying increased costs as paying for alternatives for GW is a scam, we need to stop it now. Stopping the deregulation of electricity markets should be next. If it continues, it will begin to look like the oil market.


We need new thinking and new leadership. THAT, my friends, is call for change.

Do you want it spelt out any more plainly? JIMMAH CARTER???

Curly Bill
7/13/2008, 09:54 PM
We need new thinking and new leadership. THAT, my friends, is call for change.

CHANGE!!!

Oh please God can we please have some wonderful, magical, change so everything will once again be right with the world. :rolleyes:

MR2-Sooner86
7/13/2008, 10:32 PM
So reading through this thread it looks like it's an all out war of Obama and McCain and left vs right. Looks fun.


Hale DeMar confronted a burglar in his home in December 2003 and shot him twice, forcing the burglar to flee and to seek medical care. Police arrested Mario Billings at the hospital, but they also charged DeMar with a misdemeanor for owning a handgun:

"A 55-year-old Wilmette man was charged Thursday with weapons violations after he shot and wounded a burglar in his home more than a week ago.
Hale DeMar, of 35 Linden Ave. in the north suburb, was charged with a misdemeanor for violating a state law that required firearm owners to have a valid Firearm Ownerís Identification card, Wilmette police Officer Roger Ockrim said in a news release. DeMar was also cited for violating a village code that prohibits possession of handguns in Wilmette, the release said. Violation of the ordinance is a petty offense carrying a maximum fine of $750 upon conviction."

At the time, Wilmette had its ban in place for 14 years. When the state legislature discovered that Wilmette had essentially charged DeMar for defending his home, several members moved a new law that essentially barred prosecution on handgun bans that arose from incidents of true self-defense. That bill, SB2165, was filed within three weeks of the incident, and took four months to wend its way through the legislature.

On May 25, 2004, the bill finally passed both houses ó but without the support of Barack Obama. He voted against SB2165, which didnít even go so far as to remove the Wilmette handgun ban, but only prevented enforcement in cases of real self-defense. It passed nonetheless, 41-16.
However, the governor vetoed the bill almost three months later, while the legislature was out of session. The original sponsor, Edward Petka, then moved to override the veto in November, and Obama didnít vote at all on this day. The veto got overridden anyway.


http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/30/obamas-illinois-votes-on-guns/

Question: Do you support the banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns in Illinois?
Obama: Yes.

Eight years later, he said on another questionnaire that "a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable" but reasonable restrictions should be imposed.
Flip flop?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-12-22-2414012588_x.htm


So itís not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns

I wouldn't worry folks. Of all the things Obama wants to "change" I'm sure guns isn't one of them ;)

Okla-homey
7/14/2008, 07:12 AM
Either you need admit that you haven't a clue or go ahead and dig a bigger hole in the sand for your head.

This is the biggest financial crisis to hit the US SINCE the Great Depression. There is little doubt about that. Trust me, there is a lot of very, very bad news to come out.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mc together own or guarantee US$5 trillion worth of mortgages, or roughly half of the US home loan debt. Furthermore, market confidence has been shattered by last Friday’s news that the FDIC had taken over IndyMac Bancorp Inc. in one of the biggest US bank failures ever.

We have only started to see the latest leg of the downward spiral.

The US Fed is increasingly unlikely to raise interest rates with the financial situation in such a fix. The dollar is going further down and inflation and oil prices will continue to rise.

The worst of all of it is that the US manufacturing sector still won't be competitive in the global even with the weak dollar.

We need new thinking and new leadership. THAT, my friends, is call for change.

Do you want it spelt out any more plainly?

Even if all your doomsaying is true, why is BHO a better choice? Does he have some special economic expertise he's holding back? I thought he was only a former law professor and Illinios state legislator with less than 150 days on-the-job experience in the US Senate. I must not be paying enough attention to his credentials.;)

That said, if economic savvy was critical, we prolly should have all gotten behind Mitt Romney. Maybe John will ask him to be his running mate.

shaun4411
7/14/2008, 07:51 AM
now THAT's experience you depend on!

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 08:25 AM
Even if all your doomsaying is true, why is BHO a better choice? Does he have some special economic expertise he's holding back? I thought he was only a former law professor and Illinios state legislator with less than 150 days on-the-job experience in the US Senate. I must not be paying enough attention to his credentials.;)


Damn it Homey are you not paying attention!!! BHO is gonna give us

CHANGE!!!

Okla-homey
7/14/2008, 09:36 AM
...besides, the Dow is up 55 points as I write this on the news the feds are going to make sure Fannie and Sallie Mae are going to make it. The bank in California (IndyMac) that gave too many home loans to people with no income is going to be propped-up too.

Remember Penn Square and the S&L crisis? This is just a variation on the theme. Greedy lenders endangering our economy. No matter who wins, there will ensue a passle of new regulations and this too shall pass, until said greedy lenders try a new scam.;)

My super excellent mortage formula the Congress should pass forthwith:

Your monthly income __________

(-)

your monthly liabilities _________

= ____________

Your monthly mortage payment must not exceed 50% of the total above. If it does, no mortgage for you! Any lender who makes such a loan is guilty of a felony and everyone in the approval process is subject to a $10,000 fine or one year in prison or both.;)

StoopTroup
7/14/2008, 09:40 AM
ST,

While I think it was marvelous we came to the aid of our European cousins, US involvement was absolutely unnecessary and ill-advised. In fact, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, we know that had the Germans and the French been allowed to bleed each other white, and called it a draw, Hitler probably wouldn't have happened. The armistice and cruel terms imposed on Imperial Germany achieved by virtue of our weighing-in set Europe up for the cataclysm of the 1940's.

I knew you'd have a take on it...

I really wanted to know more about stuff like that but it wasn't my Major back then.

I do remember my teacher expressing that Wilson really made an unpopular decision and that it bothered him until the day he died.

Thanks Homey!

JohnnyMack
7/14/2008, 09:47 AM
Damn it Homey are you not paying attention!!! BHO is gonna give us

CHANGE!!!

OK we get your point. You're very clever.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 09:52 AM
OK we get your point. You're very clever.

...but isn't it the magic word? You know if you keep repeating the magic word then magic will happen?

TopDawg
7/14/2008, 10:58 AM
And if you keep repeating that post, maybe someone will eventually laugh.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 11:00 AM
And if you keep repeating that post, maybe someone will eventually laugh.

Oooooh, I can only hope. :rolleyes:

JohnnyMack
7/14/2008, 11:03 AM
Both McCain and Obama have well developed ideas on what they would do if elected. Read their suggestions and make up your mind for yourself. But to keep saying "change!" over and over again makes you sound uninformed.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 11:10 AM
Both McCain and Obama have well developed ideas on what they would do if elected. Read their suggestions and make up your mind for yourself. But to keep saying "change!" over and over again makes you sound uninformed.

Obama has well developed ideas? If that were true I don't know that he'd be flipping and flopping all over the place....and that's not to say that I think McCain is a great candidate either.

...and the reason I keep saying "change" is I find it humorous that the Obama campaign seems built around throwing that word out there as often as possible.

So....explain to me, to us, what this "change" is, beyond raising our taxes through the roof.

Big Red Ron
7/14/2008, 11:13 AM
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gifIt's a dead heat folks... (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2335750#post2335750)7/13/2008 08:20 PMChuck Bao (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/member.php?u=37177)Talk about weak sauce, get a grip man and a reality check.
lol, jihad anyone?

JohnnyMack
7/14/2008, 11:15 AM
Obama has well developed ideas? If that were true I don't know that he'd be flipping and flopping all over the place....and that's not to say that I think McCain is a great candidate either.

...and the reason I keep saying "change" is I find it humorous that the Obama campaign seems built around throwing that word out there as often as possible.

So....explain to me, to us, what this "change" is, beyond raising our taxes through the roof.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 11:19 AM
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf


Yeah I know: grand ideas and platitudes, McCain's would be just like it. I want to know how he's gonna do the crap he wants to do, and for that I don't think he has a clue.

Animal Mother
7/14/2008, 11:34 AM
Yeah I know: grand ideas and platitudes, McCain's would be just like it. I want to know how he's gonna do the crap he wants to do, and for that I don't think he has a clue.


Curly.

I may have missed your answer to this, but who wouldíve been the two best candidates from the two parties in your opinion?

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 11:39 AM
Curly.

I may have missed your answer to this, but who wouldíve been the two best candidates from the two parties in your opinion?

Well.....the Demos haven't had a good candidate in my lifetime....:D

...but, I will say that as much as I dislike her (and I dislike her intensely) I feel that at least with Hillary there's some substance there...BHO, not so much

...and the Repubs...well....wasn't much of a fan of any of them either.

I'm thinking Newt Gingrich should have run :D

Animal Mother
7/14/2008, 11:46 AM
Well.....the Demos haven't had a good candidate in my lifetime....:D

...but, I will say that as much as I dislike her (and I dislike her intensely) I feel that at least with Hillary there's some substance there...BHO, not so much

...and the Repubs...well....wasn't much of a fan of any of them either.

I'm thinking Newt Gingrich should have run :D


Run from what?

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 11:49 AM
Run from what?

:D


Good one.

Scott D
7/14/2008, 11:55 AM
Well.....the Demos haven't had a good candidate in my lifetime....:D

...but, I will say that as much as I dislike her (and I dislike her intensely) I feel that at least with Hillary there's some substance there...BHO, not so much

...and the Repubs...well....wasn't much of a fan of any of them either.

I'm thinking Newt Gingrich should have run :D

only substance with hillary would be that which her husband left on a blue dress.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 11:57 AM
only substance with hillary would be that which her husband left on a blue dress.

Well that, and as much as I disagree with her I feel that she has a few core beliefs. BHO...hell if I know?

Scott D
7/14/2008, 11:59 AM
hillary's only core belief is that she should have been president from 1992-2000. Anything else is just based off of that belief.

Cam
7/14/2008, 12:01 PM
hillary's only core belief is that she should have been president from 1992-2000. Anything else is just based off of that belief.

That's what is seemed like to me as well.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 12:04 PM
hillary's only core belief is that she should have been president from 1992-2000. Anything else is just based off of that belief.

One can see the sense of entitlement in her, but I think she felt entitled to the 2008-2012 years. I think that's why she fought on so long, somewhat sense of disbelief that it didn't happen for her.

She can try again in 2012. McCain will be even older by then, BHO will be just another liberal senator, she'll be able to point out how her 2008 campaign closed strongly, etc, etc...

Scott D
7/14/2008, 12:06 PM
One can see the sense of entitlement in her, but I think she felt entitled to the 2008-2012 years. I think that's why she fought on so long, somewhat sense of disbelief that it didn't happen for her.

She can try again in 2012. McCain will be even older by then, BHO will be just another liberal senator, she'll be able to point out how her 2008 campaign closed strongly, etc, etc...

The only thing worse than her bull**** sniper story in Bosnia, is the fact that a) it wasn't true. and b) she wasn't a casualty from it.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 12:10 PM
The only thing worse than her bull**** sniper story in Bosnia, is the fact that a) it wasn't true. and b) she wasn't a casualty from it.


:D

Bourbon St Sooner
7/14/2008, 12:14 PM
Obama has well developed ideas? If that were true I don't know that he'd be flipping and flopping all over the place....

According to the media it's not flip flopping, it's "moving to the center" and "refining his position".

Bourbon St Sooner
7/14/2008, 12:15 PM
hillary's only core belief is that she should have been named dictator for life. Anything else is just based off of that belief.


Fixed.

Curly Bill
7/14/2008, 12:23 PM
According to the liberal leaning media it's not flip flopping, it's "moving to the center" and "refining his position".

FIXED :D

r5TPsooner
7/14/2008, 12:37 PM
Even Texans are turning their backs on McCain. :D ;)

Miss USA Crystle Stewart (seen here last week) has no idea whether she'll take the crown at the Miss Universe contest on July 14, but she's already decided who's got her vote in the White House race -- Barack Obama.

http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/crystle-stewart-becomes-miss-usa-2008-from-texas-america.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Miss-Universe/ss/events/lf/062508missuniverse)


IN!















Like all day.

Chuck Bao
7/14/2008, 04:38 PM
Now, you don't need to get angry. Just keep saying how bad everything is, and I'm sure one day it will be. That is, unless Obama wins. His mere presence in the white house will change the outlook, I'm sure.

Iím not angry at all, just a bit worried. And, I would be very, very happy if Iím wrong.

And, I often forget the winky smiley face too. Anyway, I know that youíre just joking around in that last sentence. Good one!


Btw - China's stock market is down 56% since October, and I keep reading that their economy is about to collapse.

Would that be Bush's fault?

I donít think the Chinese economy is about to collapse. They will soon go through some very serious pain, though, after excessive economic growth for many consecutive years.

Do I fault Bush? To some degree, yes. His administration allowed what one journalist termed as the greatest shift in capital in the history of mankind (I canít find the link). The point is that the corporate sector sold out the US and set up shop in China on a historically unprecedented scale.

Oh, by the way China now has foreign reserves of US$1.8 trillion.


The NYT says you fail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/business/14bank.html?_r=2&ref=business&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Aren't Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac government creations? And you want the same people to run your health care?

UmmmÖJerk, there a important distinctions to make here. First of all, the NYT is being responsible and telling everyone that they shouldnít worry about their bank going bust.

Second of all, the number of bank failures will not likely match that of the past because there are far few banks. This financial disaster will be much, much bigger than the 70s or 80s and it has less to do about deposit-taking institutions and more to do with the derivative products created only in this century. The numbers as I understand them are staggering.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimates that the global cost of the sub-prime / mortgage meltdown to be around US$945bn. This is an estimate several months old and it still makes the 70-90s losses on S&L crisis and Penn Square look relatively small.

This Paulson guy, the one who correctly bet that the sub-prime problem would only get worse, is now saying that the cost will be US$1.3 trillion. You tell me how that number compares to the 70-90s financial crises.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alYak4riQl0c&refer=home

We will get a better idea this week as the major US banks announce their second quarter figures. Personally, I think that there is a lot of bad news out there.



Even if all your doomsaying is true, why is BHO a better choice? Does he have some special economic expertise he's holding back? I thought he was only a former law professor and Illinios state legislator with less than 150 days on-the-job experience in the US Senate. I must not be paying enough attention to his credentials.

That said, if economic savvy was critical, we prolly should have all gotten behind Mitt Romney. Maybe John will ask him to be his running mate.

Obama is the better choice because he seems to have the balls to stand up against China and unfair trade practices. He appears to be fighting for American workers rather than American corporations who are too busy laying off people in the US and setting up shop in China and India.

McCain hasnít really separated his views on global trade from the Bush administration. One of the key issues is that he has been forced to temporarily distance himself away from his key advisors who have / are (?) in the business of representing foreign governments.

The simple question is whether you want the president of the US to represent the people or the major corporations.

Should the pubs have gone with Mitt? He may understand the economy much, much more than McCain and he was a successful businessman. Iím still not getting the feeling that he is willing to play tough with the trade partners and do the good fight for responsibility of the corporate sector.


lol, jihad anyone?

lol, indeed! Bring it on if you want to debate global trade and economy.

Frozen Sooner
7/14/2008, 04:43 PM
Heh. Rasmussen Reports is so impartial that right now they've got a little video playing on their front page saying "Join Our Team: McCain 2008."

Oh, yeah, and they have Obama with a two-point lead and a 66.8% chance of winning the election right now.

Civicus_Sooner
7/19/2008, 05:28 PM
Heh. Rasmussen Reports is so impartial that right now they've got a little video playing on their front page saying "Join Our Team: McCain 2008."

Oh, yeah, and they have Obama with a two-point lead and a 66.8% chance of winning the election right now.That's a banner ad that if you click refresh a few times comes up with Obama ads. Most political info sites are doing that to the campaigns. It's like stealing candy from a baby.

Frozen Sooner
7/19/2008, 05:31 PM
That's a banner ad that if you click refresh a few times comes up with Obama ads. Most political info sites are doing that to the campaigns. It's like stealing candy from a baby.

Interesting-because I've clicked on Rassmussen quite a few times (I'm a poll junkie) of late and haven't seen a single Obama ad on their site. Not that you're incorrect at all, I just haven't seen one.

soonerboomer93
7/19/2008, 09:54 PM
Ahem...when are you folks going to realize that it's not about the terrorists. It's about the economy. The terrorists aren't going to bother to **** with us when we are a third world economy.

um, so US economic failure would no longer have drastic consequences across the world?

we would no longer take everyone down with us?

Scott D
7/19/2008, 10:17 PM
this thread is still ****ing gay.

shaun4411
7/20/2008, 07:53 AM
you know , if you think about it, Obama can just ride the wave straight to the white house if he wanted:

1. the damage (perceived and actual) done by Bush has tainted the image of the Republican party, much to the chagrin of Mccain's campgain.

2. liberal media bias and their love affair with Obama.

3. dems blaming everything on the 'pubs, and much of the country buying it.

4. people really do want some sort of change, and since Obama is singing it....

5. young vs old. 'nuff said.

6. Obama = excellent orator; Mccain = moderate to average orator

sure, there are things working against obama and for mccain. but to the lay voter, the average joe who doesnt do much digging before voting, these 6 things will be most prevalent in their mind.