Easy "Pickens": This guy sees the same things I see in Stillwater

[KingBarry]

First off, OSU football is still mired in mediocrity, which might be an improvement as they been rank terrible most of their history, and second, how can T. Boone's donation be worth $363 million when all the markets are down AND the Pokesters have been spending money hand over fist? Does anyone know the business details on this?

-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 9 Jul 2008

Easy "Pickens" For Boone's Oklahoma State Cowboys?
Posted By:Darren Rovell

As many of us have figured out, all the money in the world doesn't buy your team a championship.

It's even harder in the collegiate world, where boosters can't buy players (technically), they can just hope to score the best coach and build the best facilities with the name of the game to get the best recruits.

That's why I'm so interested to see what happens with Oklahoma State's top revenue sports: football and men's basketball.

I caught up with Boone Pickens, the biggest booster in the nation, who gave $165 million to Oklahoma State exactly two and half years ago tomorrow, and he told me that his Cowboys are quite glad that a condition of his donation was to put the money back into his investment firm BP Capital.

Pickens told me that the $165 million is up 120 percent since his donation. That means that his original donation is now worth $363 million. Add to that the $28.6 million that was donated last month by Boone's friends Amy and Malone Mitchell to the athletics department and we're up to almost $400 million from two families.


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So is it realistic to think all this money can help push the Cowboys past the in-state rival Sooners one day?

Last year, on the heels of a Phil Knight $100 million to the University of Oregon athletic department, I asked blog readers whether they thought Oklahoma State or Oregon would win a championship in men's basketball or football in the next 15 years than 40 percent of those that voted said yes.

But I'm looking at Oklahoma State football right now and I'm just not so sure. By most accounts, they are ranked somewhere between the 40th and 45th best team in college football this year. And perhaps, more importantly, Oklahoma got seven recruits out the Rivals 100. Oklahoma State? Zero.

Pickens apparently did a great job of managing the Cowboys money (not surprising), but just like the pros, seemingly no amount of money will buy you a championship.

Questions? Comments? [email protected]

© 2008 CNBC, Inc. All Rights Reserved

[tommieharris91]

First off, OSU football is still mired in mediocrity, which might be an improvement as they been rank terrible most of their history, and second, how can T. Boone's donation be worth $363 million when all the markets are down AND the Pokesters have been spending money hand over fist? Does anyone know the business details on this?

Apparently, that fat gift that Boone gave to osu was given right back to Boone to reinvest in his hedge fund. His hedge fund portfolio is net long oil, and actually has been for quite awhile. This is why that money doubles despite failing financial markets. Obviously, many commodities traded on the NYMEX and other commodity markets are way up for the year.

But I do like how Rovell implies buying players in the article.

[soonerfan28]

So is it realistic to think all this money can help push the Cowboys past the in-state rival Sooners one day?

No.

[King Crimson]

So is it realistic to think all this money can help push the Cowboys past the in-state rival Sooners one day?

No.

all they have to do is beat us once and it'll all be worth it, to them.

[badger]

Will high school athletes choose OSU over OU, and not just the sons of alumni, anyone with the last name Woods and those star athletes whose recruiting videos disappear at first sighting in Stillwater?

Probably not. We have lost top Oklahoma talent to the likes of Nebraska (remember booing when players from Oklahoma were announced at the 2001 game in Lincoln?), Tennessee (just think to the draft) and Texas (even though they usually stay in-state). However, not much threat elsewhere. I guess we nearly lost Jason White to Miami, and we did lost Jeremy Shockey to them. I would have missed White a lot more than we missed Shockey :D

[King Crimson]

Will high school athletes choose OSU over OU, and not just the sons of alumni, anyone with the last name Woods and those star athletes whose recruiting videos disappear at first sighting in Stillwater?

Probably not. We have lost top Oklahoma talent to the likes of Nebraska (remember booing when players from Oklahoma were announced at the 2001 game in Lincoln?), Tennessee (just think to the draft) and Texas (even though they usually stay in-state). However, not much threat elsewhere. I guess we nearly lost Jason White to Miami, and we did lost Jeremy Shockey to them. I would have missed White a lot more than we missed Shockey :D

Shockey went JUCO and i'm not sure we ever had much chance with him. Snyder and KSU raided Oklahoma for some very good players when they were on the ascent and we were mired with Blake.

[Kray]

It's not realistic for OSU to think its football program can make it to the very top (like OU's). It is realistic for OSU to think it can be better than it has been in half a century of under-funded, good-ol'-boy athletic department management. They can be better, but like most programs, they probably cannot be elite. They might be a threat some years, but consistent top tier performance doesn't seem possible.

OSU is MUCH more likely to win a title at basketball than they are football. They will probably never win a BCS title, but they have been very close in basketball on several occasions.

[tommieharris91]

Ohh wow, why do people subscribe to the "osu has been better at basketball than OU" myth?

[Kray]

Ohh wow, why do people subscribe to the "osu has been better at basketball than OU" myth?
I hope that wasn't directed at me. I just said that they have been very good, and that's not the same as saying better than us.

[badger]

Ohh wow, why do people subscribe to the "osu has been better at basketball than OU" myth?

Tommie, we all know that they have the most powerful basketball in the universe. Their orange uniforms emits a spiritual bond with the orange colored basketball that our fairweather fan cheatin' gooner crimson could never achieve :rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

Will high school athletes choose OSU over OU, and not just the sons of alumni, anyone with the last name Woods and those star athletes whose recruiting videos disappear at first sighting in Stillwater?

Probably not. We have lost top Oklahoma talent to the likes of Nebraska (remember booing when players from Oklahoma were announced at the 2001 game in Lincoln?), Tennessee (just think to the draft) and Texas (even though they usually stay in-state). However, not much threat elsewhere. I guess we nearly lost Jason White to Miami, and we did lost Jeremy Shockey to them. I would have missed White a lot more than we missed Shockey :D

Shockey was angry that he wasn't offered out of high school and never considered OU out of JUCO. Said some extremely crappy things about Coach Stoops.

Texas no longer recruits the state of Oklahoma, according to Mack.

[KingBarry]

Apparently, that fat gift that Boone gave to osu was given right back to Boone to reinvest in his hedge fund. His hedge fund portfolio is net long oil, and actually has been for quite awhile. This is why that money doubles despite failing financial markets. Obviously, many commodities traded on the NYMEX and other commodity markets are way up for the year.

But I do like how Rovell implies buying players in the article.

I figured they were probably invested in oil, but if they've spent all that money on stadium "improvements", you can't just multiply the value of the original gift by the rate of return. You've got to subtract what they've spent, unless they've only borrowed against the principal. Even then, you'd have to consider the debt.

i know when they put their original stadium lights in back in the 80s, the university had to sign on to the note. When the OU Athletic Dept does something, the rest of the school NEVER pitches in. Unless something has changed since I've been keeping up.

[DeadSolidPerfect]

Aggies are suck.

I kid, I kid.......

But really, aggies suck.

[fadada1]

osu plays football???

i guess you really do learn something new everyday.

[badger]

Shockey was angry that he wasn't offered out of high school and never considered OU out of JUCO. Said some extremely crappy things about Coach Stoops.

Texas no longer recruits the state of Oklahoma, according to Mack.
I of course am on Stoops side no matter what, but he probably did tell Shockey that he wouldn't play at Miami. Of course, he really didn't - two seasons and he bolted. With his attitude, perhaps Miami was one of the few places he could play without getting the boot for his ego.

I checked Macky's site - I had remembered a studly D-guy that went from Jenks to Texas a few years back, must have graduated since - anyways, here's a complete list of all the players on Texas' roster that are NOT from Texas:

92 Ben Alexander 6-0 310 Jr.-2L DT Anderson, SC (T.L. Hanna)
27 Nolan Brewster 6-2 210 Fr.-HS DB Denver, CO (Mullen)
33 Lamarr Houston 6-2 275 Jr.-2L DE Colorado Springs, CO (Doherty)
19 Blaine Irby 6-3 240 So.-1L TE Camarillo, CA (St. Bonaventure)
95 Aaron Lewis 6-4 265 Sr.-3L DE Albuquerque, NM (La Cueva)
50 Jeff Messer* 6-0 231 Fr.-RS DS Peach Tree City, GA (Starr's Mill)
52 Cory Michner* 6-0 215 Sr.-SQ DE St. Louis, MO (Ladue)

There you have it - seven players. It's something Texas fans take pride in, I know, but perhaps that's just because they can't take pride in winning Big 12 championships :D

And before Lid mentions 2005, notice that I same Big 12 champions. Plural. Multiple. MORE THAN ONE :D:D:D

[SoonerinSouthlake]

let us not forget...that whle We dont have a single TBoone who has ponied up 120MIL. Our former politician..university pres..Boren has done a pretty nice job getting contributors.

[Sooner24]

Shockey went JUCO and i'm not sure we ever had much chance with him. Snyder and KSU raided Oklahoma for some very good players when they were on the ascent and we were mired with Gibbs.

Fixed it for you.

[Frozen Sooner]

I of course am on Stoops side no matter what, but he probably did tell Shockey that he wouldn't play at Miami. Of course, he really didn't - two seasons and he bolted. With his attitude, perhaps Miami was one of the few places he could play without getting the boot for his ego.

I checked Macky's site - I had remembered a studly D-guy that went from Jenks to Texas a few years back, must have graduated since - anyways, here's a complete list of all the players on Texas' roster that are NOT from Texas:

92 Ben Alexander 6-0 310 Jr.-2L DT Anderson, SC (T.L. Hanna)
27 Nolan Brewster 6-2 210 Fr.-HS DB Denver, CO (Mullen)
33 Lamarr Houston 6-2 275 Jr.-2L DE Colorado Springs, CO (Doherty)
19 Blaine Irby 6-3 240 So.-1L TE Camarillo, CA (St. Bonaventure)
95 Aaron Lewis 6-4 265 Sr.-3L DE Albuquerque, NM (La Cueva)
50 Jeff Messer* 6-0 231 Fr.-RS DS Peach Tree City, GA (Starr's Mill)
52 Cory Michner* 6-0 215 Sr.-SQ DE St. Louis, MO (Ladue)

There you have it - seven players. It's something Texas fans take pride in, I know, but perhaps that's just because they can't take pride in winning Big 12 championships :D

And before Lid mentions 2005, notice that I same Big 12 champions. Plural. Multiple. MORE THAN ONE :D:D:D

The D-Line guy you're thinking of might be Doiron.

And Shockey was a JUCO guy-how many more years did you expect him to play at Miami than two? ;)

[NYC Poke]

I figured they were probably invested in oil, but if they've spent all that money on stadium "improvements", you can't just multiply the value of the original gift by the rate of return. You've got to subtract what they've spent, unless they've only borrowed against the principal. Even then, you'd have to consider the debt.

i know when they put their original stadium lights in back in the 80s, the university had to sign on to the note. When the OU Athletic Dept does something, the rest of the school NEVER pitches in. Unless something has changed since I've been keeping up.


I don't remember exactly how it works, but my understanding is that there is a separate stadium fund. None of The Fund will be used for operating budgets and the like until it reaches a level where it can endow all scholarships, etc., so that the Athletic Department is self-sustaining. While his gift was certainly generous to My Kind, we're still far behind the ADs that have done historically well, such as OU's. We've been so far behind for so long that I'm surprised that the writer expected immediate success.

[fadada1]

if an athletic dept. can't find a way "self sustain" with $350+ million, it's time to rethink acting like an athletic department. seriously, that kind of money should be able to get the rastlin' team to every away match until the year 2094 or so. and with the stadium expanding to 75K and jacking ticket prices up higher than a tank of gas...

oh, never mind.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Lipstick on a pig..... and a sheep

http://lonestartimes.com/images/2007/04/sheep.jpg

[StoopTroup]

I'm gonna give the pokey fans a little break here...

Pickens is the one who is giving the money.

He's suddenly their number one fan.

Now that he's helping clean up "Rustoleum Stadium" maybe some of the folks who attended school there will begin to buy Season Tickets.

The thing is this however....All the paint and new enviroment won't make much of a difference until you hire someone to improve the behind the scenes stuff.

Here's an example of why I say this...

My Sister and her Husband both graduated from oSu. They are what I consider "True Fans" of their Alma Matter. The deal is though...they both decided to teach and they have two beautiful kids who they have put through "Private Schools". Hence their discretionary dollars are thin each month. Last year I was in good enough shape that I thought about buying oSu Season Tickets for them as a gift and when there wasn't a conflict with Sooner Games...I was going to offer to watch the kiddies while they went and enjoyed watching their team play.

I tried more than once to get the oSu Ticket office to assist me in making this happen and it seems they were either incompetent or were more interested in taking care of current ticket holders.

The only thing I can guess other than that is they went to the "If an OU Fan is trying to buy an oSu Fan Season tickets...we aren't going to have any of that happening around here"...

Who knows...

The thing is...if they don't fix the money machine they will still have lots of empty seats available for the Non-OU Home Bowl Game they get every other year.

After this happened though....

I could care less if they ever fix any of it.

It's just fun to watch them get excited about their new outhouse.

[OSUAggie]

I don't remember exactly how it works, but my understanding is that there is a separate stadium fund. None of The Fund will be used for operating budgets and the like until it reaches a level where it can endow all scholarships, etc., so that the Athletic Department is self-sustaining. While his gift was certainly generous to My Kind, we're still far behind the ADs that have done historically well, such as OU's. We've been so far behind for so long that I'm surprised that the writer expected immediate success.

It's a series of small loans that amount to about $5 million/month for construction costs.

The loans are borrowed against the fund.

And far behind in what aspect? Football success? We'll likely never be among the giants in college football.

[goingoneight]

OSU has a lot going against them to become the dynastic powerhouse they all think they're going to become every year.

Currently... one of which is Bob Stoops, Mack Brown, Mike Leach and sometimes even aTm and Beller beating them. When you realistically consider 2 division wins "great," it doesn't mean your expectations change anything, it just means perception is reality in Stillwater. If you think Texas Tech and aTm are tough, you're planning on beating OU and UT on a yearly basis and playing with the big boys in conference championships and BCS bowls. Let's just hear what the Poke fans have to say about us losing BCS games now? This ain't intramurals, brother.

Historically speaking, unless OU gets to be super bad for like a ten year stretch, I don't see the Oklahoma football fans swaying aggy way. Even in this unfortunate situation, OSU would still have to win BIG during OU's "off-time" to even split the football faithful in the state and region. You're talking about a team, that until it was about seven years removed from championship contention, still sold out every game. The house is built in Norman, and I'm pretty sure that it would grow bigger if allowed (stadium expansion). Now, those fans love them some Sooner football... they are wish-washy on the orange aggy subject. They're more likely just stay home and watch the games during the tough times than pick up on orange aggy.

Big stadiums and wild fans guarantee nothing. Penn State, Texas A&M, Florida, lots of programs can have success at one point in time... but it's not because of what they've got or what their fans want to see. Solid and consistent success on the field is a product of great... not good... GREAT leadership from AD to head coach to assistant coach to player. This is the "tradition" argument. Sure, Kansas can win 11 games against a crappy schedule once every 100 years. But can they average 11 wins per season, an average National Championship invite once every seven years, can you win more than just one Heisman?

Can you keep a head coach from bailing on you for a traditionally better program with more money to offer him? Can you keep top-flite assistants on hand if they emerge within your program? See: Darrell Wyatt and Larry Fedora. Can you recruit in the manner that dominates, no competes, dominates your region shared with other powerhouse programs? That's part of what Bob Stoops is severely underrated for. A lot of the Texas-born players on OUr roster right now would start anywhere in the country. Why aren't they at Texas? Why aren't they at Texas A&M? Why not Tech? Why aren't Chris Brown and Nic Harris at LSU? So for every XLK you flukishly gnab away from Bob Stoops, you lose a JD Runnells, Ryan Broyles AND a Jermaine Gresham.

Do masses of kids grow up desiring to play for OSU like they do for OU? When was the last time you saw a Sam Bradford-kind of story coming out of Stillwater worth mentioning. It might have happened, but hell if I remember it. Sure there's a few here and there... I can't lie about that. There's this much and a lot more factors that OSU has to overcome to even get close to being the powerhouse they want to be.

"Winning X out of the last Y games" doesn't build you up. "Polishing a turd" doesn't build you up.

I say OSU's best route is give Gun-slinger Gundy this year to prove he's not Mr. 6-6. If you have to go in another direction, use Big Daddy Boone's cash to lure in a solid hire. We're not talking Northwest Montana Tech's Special Team's coordinator, we're talking get a Les Miles. Get a top-flite assistant ala Stoops or Pelini at the time they were hired. Go after guys who you know have that strong desire and passion to build and never quit working on something. Not some brain fart Franchione or sob-story alumni.

Oh, eyah... and stress not doing stupid shat like "I'm a MAN, I'm 40!!!" and "World's GREATEST OFFENSE ZOMG!!!111!!1"

[StoopTroup]

Great Post Eight.

[bluedogok]

I think a bunch of it is just the fan base, my old office in OKC was more than half OSU alumni (almost 300 employees) and I would say maybe 15% of them had season tickets and a few more of them attended a few games a season and kind of liked being able to buy them at the gate on game day. That way they didn't have an investment in them if they decided something else was more important. There were some that were as die-hard as any long time OU fan and supported them in every way they could but most were just apathetic alumni, they liked to give us OU fans a hard time when they beat OU in anything, or really when anyone beat OU. About 20% of the company was OU alumni, most had season tickets or had access to them like I did with my dad.

Most of what the OSU people that I know gripe about is the same thing that we say about them here, the ridiculous attitude of Holder thinking their tickets should be the same price level as OU, UT, aTm and Nebraska when their on-field performance doesn't meet those standards. Most are realistic that they aren't in that territory yet and their pricing shouldn't be either. Most feel the same numbers are going to show up and the only time the stadium will fill up is for OU or Nebraska and maybe Tulsa games or if Arkansas came over to play. Other than that, they will still be in the 40's for attendance until the majority of the alumni feels they are moving into the upper echelon of the Big 12 territory. They always point out how OU attendance was down during the Blake years and how it filled back up when Stoops started winning. Most feel that if OSU gets to that level then the stadium will start to fill, but not before then especially when trying to charge the same price.

[illinisooner]

Agreed.

[stoopified]

The D-Line guy you're thinking of might be Doiron.

And Shockey was a JUCO guy-how many more years did you expect him to play at Miami than two? ;)I'm thinking Brian Pickryl from Jenks,he was SUPPOSED TO BE a stud DE.Doiron and his brother who also went to UT(from Duncan )were not highly recruited.

[bluedogok]

Pickryl is who I was thinking of, he had problems with both shoulders, had surgery on them and sat out and eventually quit football. IIRC he stayed in school at UT and was an honors student.

[Frozen Sooner]

I beg to differ on your contention that Adam Doiron was not highly recruited. He was #37 on the Rivals Top 100 in 2000.

[Mixer!]

good-ol'-boy athletic department management.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/6540/oklahomastatepickensbwtxw8.jpg

[tommieharris91]

go8, I don't think Kansas was the right team to go with in your example. Yea, this is like the first time ever that they were somewhat good at football, but they are consistently good at basketball, they are the current champs of that sport right now, and they always seem to have a good basketball team each season. I would say some of their basketball model has been applied to football, and I think they can sustain success (I mean by going 10-2 each season and being the team to beat in the Big XII North, maybe even stealing a B12C from us every 5 years or so).

I think you were better off using Missouri. Pinkel hasn't really improved as a coach that much. I think they got by last season with good QB play, and as soon as Daniel leaves, they will go down to a Big XII also-ran with Tceh, ATM, and Nebraska.

[tommieharris91]

And as for the prison oranges, they really need to stop hiring alumni. I kinda think they learned from the Sean Sutton thing, and if they want to have any success, they need to take a chance on someone. I really don't think Gundy is the right guy for them, and I also don't think Gundy is the right guy for any head coaching job. The other thing they can do is hope OU has a sustained downturn in performance. Then, they will probably be able to get some recruits that we'd miss out on. One way to do that; beat us, often.

[KingBarry]

The model for OSU should be Kansas State in the 90s. The shcool's administration got on board building a football power, and studied what they had to do get it.

THEN, they poured resources into the football program, upgraded the stadium, etc. They went out and found a top flight coach, without the inclination to seek greener pastures, and they opted to let him do what he needed to do.

Then, they all worked to together to meet their common goals and build a very solid program.

Even then, with EVERYTHING going right and EVERYONE working from the same sheet of music, they never really got into a national title hunt, only won the conference one time, and have since faded from view.

For sure, OSU is spending money. But the questions that "goingoneight" raises seem, to me, to be ignored by the Pokies admin. They seem like rank amateurs in many cases. (Mike Gundy?)

What I think happened in Boone got fed up with sucking, liked the feeling that beating OU (in the 90s and early 2000s) gave him, and decided that he personally had the financial resources to give OSU what they needed to build a football program.

The problem he is facing is that it's not all a question of money. It's very much a question of what you buy with the money, and there's where I think they haven't got much of a clue.

[badger]

OSU is almost there, but definitely not. It's like this special education kid back in high school (who was not developmentally disabled, just a slow learner) who remarked in the bathroom while cleaning up the water around the sinks, "This is the last time I'm doing this. People can clean up their own water from now on." To use a more Soonerific example, it would be like University of Oklahoma not putting trash cans out for fan use "They should take care of their own trash" and getting indignant when trash ends up everywhere. They're almost there... but very, very far behind.

In the same sense, they hired a coach that would not leave for another school... let me make this very clear, Oklahoma State: HE WILL NOT LEAVE BECAUSE NO OTHER SCHOOL WOULD HIRE HIM TO BEGIN WITH!!! This is like the special ed kid indignantly cleaning up the water around the sinks long after everyone's left. This is like OU expecting people to carry and dispose their own trash! This is like... um... Texas fans! Um... whining! About... um... Mack Brown... and... his salary! Yes! This is like Texas fans whining about Mack Brown's salary, like their whining actually makes a difference... and because their Texas-sized base of millions of alumni will donate no matter what thing is in charge of the football. I can't believe I made that work.

OSU... you are disabled by your own ignorance. You are on your way, but are so incredibly far behind that it will take decades for you to catch up to where everyone else is and by then, all top football programs will once again have advanced and you will have even more catching up to do - decades worth, in fact.

[Frozen Sooner]

The model for OSU should be Kansas State in the 90s. The shcool's administration got on board building a football power, and studied what they had to do get it.

THEN, they poured resources into the football program, upgraded the stadium, etc. They went out and found a top flight coach, without the inclination to seek greener pastures, and they opted to let him do what he needed to do.

Then, they all worked to together to meet their common goals and build a very solid program.

Even then, with EVERYTHING going right and EVERYONE working from the same sheet of music, they never really got into a national title hunt, only won the conference one time, and have since faded from view.

For sure, OSU is spending money. But the questions that "goingoneight" raises seem, to me, to be ignored by the Pokies admin. They seem like rank amateurs in many cases. (Mike Gundy?)

What I think happened in Boone got fed up with sucking, liked the feeling that beating OU (in the 90s and early 2000s) gave him, and decided that he personally had the financial resources to give OSU what they needed to build a football program.

The problem he is facing is that it's not all a question of money. It's very much a question of what you buy with the money, and there's where I think they haven't got much of a clue.

It also helps to have an alum hit the Powerball and donate half of it to the school.

[Animal Mother]

OSU is almost there, but definitely not. It's like this special education kid back in high school (who was not developmentally disabled, just a slow learner) who remarked in the bathroom while cleaning up the water around the sinks, "This is the last time I'm doing this. People can clean up their own water from now on." To use a more Soonerific example, it would be like University of Oklahoma not putting trash cans out for fan use "They should take care of their own trash" and getting indignant when trash ends up everywhere. They're almost there... but very, very far behind.

In the same sense, they hired a coach that would not leave for another school... let me make this very clear, Oklahoma State: HE WILL NOT LEAVE BECAUSE NO OTHER SCHOOL WOULD HIRE HIM TO BEGIN WITH!!! This is like the special ed kid indignantly cleaning up the water around the sinks long after everyone's left. This is like OU expecting people to carry and dispose their own trash! This is like... um... Texas fans! Um... whining! About... um... Mack Brown... and... his salary! Yes! This is like Texas fans whining about Mack Brown's salary, like their whining actually makes a difference... and because their Texas-sized base of millions of alumni will donate no matter what thing is in charge of the football. I can't believe I made that work.

OSU... you are disabled by your own ignorance. You are on your way, but are so incredibly far behind that it will take decades for you to catch up to where everyone else is and by then, all top football programs will once again have advanced and you will have even more catching up to do - decades worth, in fact.


Out of the park post!!!!!

[swardboy]

OSU is almost there, but definitely not. It's like this special education kid back in high school (who was not developmentally disabled, just a slow learner) who remarked in the bathroom while cleaning up the water around the sinks, "This is the last time I'm doing this. People can clean up their own water from now on." To use a more Soonerific example, it would be like University of Oklahoma not putting trash cans out for fan use "They should take care of their own trash" and getting indignant when trash ends up everywhere. They're almost there... but very, very far behind.

In the same sense, they hired a coach that would not leave for another school... let me make this very clear, Oklahoma State: HE WILL NOT LEAVE BECAUSE NO OTHER SCHOOL WOULD HIRE HIM TO BEGIN WITH!!! This is like the special ed kid indignantly cleaning up the water around the sinks long after everyone's left. This is like OU expecting people to carry and dispose their own trash! This is like... um... Texas fans! Um... whining! About... um... Mack Brown... and... his salary! Yes! This is like Texas fans whining about Mack Brown's salary, like their whining actually makes a difference... and because their Texas-sized base of millions of alumni will donate no matter what thing is in charge of the football. I can't believe I made that work.

OSU... you are disabled by your own ignorance. You are on your way, but are so incredibly far behind that it will take decades for you to catch up to where everyone else is and by then, all top football programs will once again have advanced and you will have even more catching up to do - decades worth, in fact.

Spek to yur mad writing skilz.....John McCain is calling.

[badger]

I just find it odd that OSU chooses to focus on one thing without looking at the larger picture, much like indignantly cleaning up after those that have no idea you are cleaning up after them, much like someone trying to make others take care of their own trash by removing public trash cans. You think you'll get one result, but the reality is that you couldn't be farther from the truth.

Take OSU. They lost their hotshot coach. He is a "hotshot coach" because of the bowl trips and beating Oklahoma, two of the most important things (if not the only things essential) to OSU football. They lost their hotshot coach because he wanted to go to a better program. Thus, OSU wants a coach that will not leave... but what they really want is to beat Oklahoma and go to a bowl game, not simply have a coach that doesn't leave, but that doesn't click for them. No, they think that hiring a coach that won't leave will lead them to bowl games and beating Oklahoma, when in fact, nothing could be farther from the truth. Rather, they should create a program that a coach would not want to leave in order to get a coach that won't leave... but OSU hasn't clicked in that aspect.

I just thought of that student from so many years back when reading about OSU now. Someday, that student would learn that cleaning water around sinks is all in vain, because the water will always splash away from the sinks, and the janitors clean up after school every day anyways. However, it may have taken years for this student to realize that - it will take OSU years to realize how flawed their logic is, or perhaps shorter, if Boone Pickens kicks the bucket or loses interest in Oklahoma State football.

[CORNholio]

Does anybody here think that the man who believes he can buy a football program does not also think he can buy the players for said football program? I foresee massive NCAA violations in the future for the pokes. Maybe even death penalty status 5-10 years down the road.
Question is when the poke misdeeds are uncovered will they still call us the "cheaters"?

[CORNholio]

Stoolwater is a hole and they will have to depend on the shear power of the dollar in order to lure and keep anyone there.

[tommieharris91]

Does anybody here think that the man who believes he can buy a football program does not also think he can buy the players for said football program? I foresee massive NCAA violations in the future for the pokes. Maybe even death penalty status 5-10 years down the road.
Question is when the poke misdeeds are uncovered will they still call us the "cheaters"?

Ohh yes I do think that Boone is buying basketball players. I won't question their football program until they start getting lotsa 4* and 5* players.

[KingBarry]

Ohh yes I do think that Boone is buying basketball players. I won't question their football program until they start getting lotsa 4* and 5* players.

Tommie, you may not have to question anything for a while. A long while.

And badger, didn't that "slow learner" just graduate from OSU -- wait for it -- with honors! (har har har) (I love stupid obvious jokes, though they may bore others.)

But more seriously badger, I think you were dancing around a major point, but i think you wound up just missing it. You were talking about how OSU fans are desperate for a coach that can take them to some big bowl games and beat OU, AND a coach that won't leave. But you point out that the two goals are mutually exclusive.

I like Tulsa's attitude. They KNOW they are small program in a small conference, and they KNOW that any top flight coach coming in would be looking to make a name before jumping to a bigger stage with more money. Rather than crying about how that makes them feel like a "lil brother," they revel in their status. They hire hot prospects (Kragthorpe, that guy that went to Ohio St, all those basketball coaches), bring them in, give them the resources they need to have success -- then wish them luck on the way out the door. For they realize that the future success of FORMER-TU coaches is the best advertisement they have for attracting great coaches themselves.

Now, take OSU. They are pretty mediocre, and throughout their history, they have been pretty much awful. Unlike TU, they ARE members of a top flight BCS conference, and clearly they have more resources than TU, but otherwise they are a clear "lil brother" school. And not just a lil brother to OU -- which they despise -- but a lil brother to all the successful athletic programs in the Big XII -- Nebraska, UT and A&M football, Kansas basketball, UT and A&M baseball, etc.

To their very good fortune, they now have a benefactor throwing money at them. To take advantage for the long term, they really need to get over their OU-fixation and ask themselves how to properly build a football program. Upgrading facilities is a great first step, but they are going to need to upgrade alot of other things as well, and they are going to need to develop a more professional (and realistic) philosphy on coaching hires.

When Gundy's replacement is eventually announced, I (if I were an aggie, God forbid) would want to hear Holder say something like "We are happy to announce Coach XYZ as the new head football coach at Oklahoma State University. He has been among the most sought after assistants stalking the sidelines the past few seasons. We are proud to have him in Stillwater.

"Some have criticized this hire based on the preconceived notion that, if successful, Coach XYZ might leave for more money at a bigger program. Let me make this clear. If Coach XYZ sees the success I expect to see from him, we will make every effort to keep him at Oklahoma State.

"However, if we have provided Coach with sufficient support and resources to make him attractive to other schools, then we -- as fans and administrators -- should realize that we have done our job well. And we shall continue to do our jobs well by hiring and supporting a great successor."

Frankly, I think West Virginia did themselves a serious disservice by crying and cursing as Rodriquez walked out the door -- to Michigan! Michigan is one of the finest and most prestigious jobs in all college football. Don't they realize what a compliment it is to WVU that they have sent a coach to Ann Arbor? Don't they realize the long-term self interest involved in wishing him well, and seeing his success at such a high profile gig? Guess not. What's better advertising for Boise State than sending Urban Meyer to Florida? (Well, other than winning a Fiesta Bowl)

Fortunately, in college football there really are no greener pastures than Oklahoma, so we don't have to worry about Coach Stoops ditching us for more money, prestige or success at the university level. But someday, hopefully not but maybe, he may be tempted to ply his trade in the NFL.

If he does, I hope none of us cry and moan and wish him ill. I hope we all realize that as Bob Stoops wins Superbowls, our stock simply rises.

[Jacie]

[QUOTE=KingBarry;2336893]
Frankly, I think West Virginia did themselves a serious disservice by crying and cursing as Rodriquez walked out the door -- to Michigan! Michigan is one of the finest and most prestigious jobs in all college football. Don't they realize what a compliment it is to WVU that they have sent a coach to Ann Arbor? Don't they realize the long-term self interest involved in wishing him well, and seeing his success at such a high profile gig? Guess not. What's better advertising for Boise State than sending Urban Meyer to Florida? (Well, other than winning a Fiesta Bowl)
[QUOTE]

I thought it was kinda low rent too but can't argue with the results, they got 4 million back from Rich and UM.

[badger]

King Barry, I think its fairly obvious to all Sooner fans that OSU fans are not simply satisfied with bowl games - they want the Badlem victory (notice how I've taken to spelling it wronk for the sake of this board, lolz). Simply hiring a coach that will not leave will not get them there, just like getting indignant about having to clean up after other people will not make them clean it up themselves.

[Outopia]

They have had two coaches in about thirty years leave for better jobs, Johnson and Lester. How can they see themselves as a stepping stone? That job is more like a grave yard. How many assistant coaches from there have been hired off of their staff for HC jobs? Only two that I can think of, and both of them went to Southern Miss. That is not a place with a rep as a coaching tree. Now, they worry about successful coaches leaving them for other jobs? They want Gundy because he will never leave. No one else would want Gundy. I personally hope they keep him. He sucks.

[NYC Poke]

And far behind in what aspect?

Financially. I suspect that there are ADs in a much better position than our financially, even with TBP's donations.

[badger]

Frankly, I think West Virginia did themselves a serious disservice by crying and cursing as Rodriquez walked out the door -- to Michigan! Michigan is one of the finest and most prestigious jobs in all college football. Don't they realize what a compliment it is to WVU that they have sent a coach to Ann Arbor?

I can understand. Rodriguez was from West Virginia, the state and the university. Roddy was a home grown coaching talent that gave people a lot of pride that he grew up there, lived there, played college ball there, coached there, won there, put the program on the map there.

Then, Roddy leaves home. This isn't Bear Bryant leaving A&M because his momma called him home to Bama. This is momma calling you home and instead of going home, you hop on the train and go as far away from momma as you can.

To put in Oklahoma terms, this is Oklahoma educating you from age 5, Oklahoma communities helping you grow up and cheering on your accomplishments and helping you back on your feet in your bad times, Oklahoma taxpayers OHLAP scholarship sponsoring you through Oklahoma taxpayer funded colleges... and then you jump across the border to Texas.

Ouch! The difference between the student border jumpers out there and Roddy was that Oklahoma didn't sue you for its OHLAP money back. Rather, Oklahoma continues to support its border jumpers and welcomes them back with open arms when they realize they can't se habla espanol or find out how bad Houston traffic is. Oklahoma's just nice like that.

West Virginia is not Oklahoma. They wanted their money back and will never welcome him back home should things not work out in Michigan. West Virginia is not nice like Oklahoma is.

Oh... and for the record, I am still bitter about the Fiesta Bowl! Why did you suddenly bring that up after I ranted about West Virginia and Oklahoma differences? ;)

[S008NER]

. What's better advertising for Boise State than sending Urban Meyer to Florida? (Well, other than winning a Fiesta Bowl)


Urban Meyer coached at the University of Utah.

[badger]

Urban Meyer coached at the University of Utah.

Pwnz. Dan Hawkins is not advertising Boise well, if you are trying to work out of that context. About all Hawkins has accomplished so far at Colorado is...

1- Token Big 12 coach rant that ends up on national television.

2- Not too many players in jail, a Colorado tradition since Neu

3- kicker allows CU to have more points than OU at end of regulation

[Sooner24]

They have had two coaches in about thirty years leave for better jobs, Johnson and Lester. How can they see themselves as a stepping stone? That job is more like a grave yard. How many assistant coaches from there have been hired off of their staff for HC jobs? Only two that I can think of, and both of them went to Southern Miss. That is not a place with a rep as a coaching tree. Now, they worry about successful coaches leaving them for other jobs? They want Gundy because he will never leave. No one else would want Gundy. I personally hope they keep him. He sucks.

And even those two coaches couldn't win a conference championship while they were there.

[KingBarry]

2- Not too many players in jail, a Colorado tradition since Neu

That's been a Colorado tradition since LONG before Neu. That's a program that, for some reason, seems to attract a lot of problems through coach after coach.

And sorry for putting Urban Meyer at the wrong mid-major. i was thinking of an article I read about him getting hired away, how he loved the school, had taken the team to their best season ever, and was getting such a promotion that nobody could feel badly about the guy. That he was a real feel good story for them, and his success was something they could build from.

I contrasted that attitude with West Virginia. And my point on WVU had nothing to do with if their tantrum was justified or not, only if it served their own interests, which it doesn't. And really, in today's college football, $4 million isn't that much money. I wonder, are they still pissed at Boddy Bowden for ditching them for Florida State? That had to seem like a lateral move at the time.

[cheezyq]

This is an interesting thread....Sooner fans trying to figure out how to fix Stoolwater.

To be honest, it's never going to happen, no matter how much money gets thrown at them. Their only (ONLY!!) opportunity to take over the state passed in 1999 when Stoops took over and rebuilt the OU football program. Perhaps if Boone was chucking dollar bills at the Cowboy program at that time, they COULD have become a reasonable contender in the state and the B12. But OSU is always going to be compared to OU when athletes are contemplating their athletic future, and a good 90% of the time (if not more), OU will win that battle. So the best time to take advantage would have been during the Gibbs/Drunkenberger/Blake years.

Another problem is that OU has out-done OSU in basketball the majority of the time, also. When you hang your hat on a sport that features men in groin-hugging apparel as your only method of competing against an in-state rival, AND your mascot was an original member of the Village People, you're hosed.

Earlier KingBarry held KSU as a model for OSU to follow. I've agreed with most of what KB has said up to this point, but the problem with that example is that KSU didn't have a lick of competition from their local schools and rivals throughout the 90s. KSU would win the battles against KU and MU (both are traditional basketball powers) for Kansas City/Kansas/Missouri talent and with OU and UT struggling, they could dip down into Oklahoma and Texas to fill out their rosters. Their only major recruiting rival was Nebraska during that whole time. And look what's happened since....OU is back on top, along with UT, killing that route for acquiring talent and MU and KU have done much better at stealing their own state's limited resources. Now....KSU sucks.

Conversely, OSU has OU, Texas, Texas Tech, AtM, and Arkansas all edging them out of the reasonable talent in the area. Heck, even Baylor gets more talent than OSU on occasion. Even worse, all those teams have reasonably good basketball programs, too. OSU is surrounded by better programs with greater reputations and traditions. Unless several of those programs fall flat for a significant period of time in both basketball and football, OSU is doomed to aim for finishing in the top half of the B12 South.

There was a small sliver of time in the 90s where OSU may have been able to build a contender. But that time has passed. And with the strength of the current B12 South and the SEC West, there won't be another time like that one anywhere in the foreseeable future. I personally think that OSU is hosed for at least the next 5-10 years. They might be able to slip in there while AtM rebuilds under Sherman, but that's not saying much.