Brent Venables

[Collier11]

I know this has been hashed and rehashed over and over again but it is the offseason, tempers have cooled, so I thought it might be a good oppurtunity to see what everyone honestly feels about the guy.

I have always been a supporter of his and I think those of you who want him fired are crazy, that being said he does need to get better if he wants to stay around too much longer.

We have had a top 20 D every year under him(most yrs 10-15), we have won 5 conf titles and played for 3 natl titles under him(part of that was him and Mike).

He has two major problems IMO compared to Mike, he gets outschemed big time in Bowl games by the other teams Off Coordinator and he seems to call blitzes at the wrong time IMO.
I still think we are mistaken if we expect to find too many guys better, in fact I can only think of about 5 D coordinators I would take over him at this point in time in all honesty.

Lets keep it civil and intelligent if possible, what are your cooler head opinions?

[starrca23]

Yes

[Collier11]

Last Year he had one bad game which was West Virginia but even in that game you see our D taking over when it was 20-15 and we missed out on the onside and momentum bit us in the arse.

He shut Down Texas, Mizzou twice, Tech just wore us out due to so many short drives and turnovers, and we were dragging after the Bradford injury which is natural. I think too often some of you look at the score and not what led to the score when judging BV and that isnt fair. Now USC and Boise were unacceptable although turnovers and short fields led to many of those scores as well.

[Bone]

I'd much prefer Mike, but I say keep BV. Like Collier said, you've got to take the entirety of the game into consideration.

[jdubb22bronco]

preparation for the big game is my only bad mark towards the coaching staff, swallowing some pride and seeking guidance from those who have done it before may be necessary....

[starrca23]

Is there a better one available?....no.

[JLEW1818]

I agree he's not the best DC in the league. But when you have an above average offense and an above average defense, I can't really complain. He gets hit a little harder then he should. Remember the players are the one's who run, move, shift, tackle, jump, swat, and think, not BV. Although if we lay another egg in a bowl game this year, you have to look at trying something new. The way I see it, I hope Arizona is below 500 this year so we can get Mike back possibly. I'm not saying that he's way better then BV but it has worked before. And I just like hearing on ESPN " The Stoop brothers"

[Collier11]

I agree he's not the best DC in the league.

I disagree, Him and Bill Young were close but Young is gone. Muschamp may have him now but he has been the Top D coordinator in the league for a couple of yrs IMHO

[Jdog]

The biggest problem I have with BV's D's is that, (Collier -- not always, but in "arguable", 6 of our 14 loses this decade) when they get behind by 14 they seem to give up, or get down or get stupid.
I know some of it can be attributed to injuries and turn overs. But still I can't get beyond the SC OL comments after the 05 game.
Here are the games that I'm talking about: USC 05, KSU03, UCLA and Texas in 05, WV last year, Tech last year (which could have been worse if Leach didn't get conservative).

[JLEW1818]

I disagree, Him and Bill Young were close but Young is gone. Muschamp may have him now but he has been the Top D coordinator in the league for a couple of yrs IMHO

What about Pete Carroll he's not to shabby at DC.

[CU Sooner]

I have no problem with BV, i think he does a great job for the most part. When it comes to week-to-week preparation I don't think there are any better. the only thing I would like to see different is our cb's press a little more instead of playing 15 yards off on 3rd and 4 or any down for that matter. But that is not the scheme BV plays with zone blitz and very little man.

[MojoRisen]

I think we are bend but don't break... We have talent I would like to see us have a more aggressive Defense... It maybe all the new offenses but I just don't see the dominance and intimidation factor as much in these schemes.

All in all - aside from bowl games I like BV - he is also a hell of a recruiter.

[Speer]

In the interest of full disclosure, I know jack-squat about how to coach a football defense.

I have no problems with BV other than the complexity of the defense. It seems to me most opposing big offensive plays are busts by the defense. I have to give credit to some offenses for seeing the holes (see UT TE plays last year) or great execution (Boise St trick plays) but more often than not, someone seems to miss an assignment, read, or whatever.

Not a slam on BV, but I sometimes think he should use the KISS principle.

[wishbonesooner]

I'd hate to try to make my living coaching. I do think we get a little predictable on defense. I can remember at the Big 12 preseason meetings many years back, Chris Simms said the toughest thing about playing OU was they disguised their defense better than anybody else in the country. Of course, ole Chrissy was easily confused, but we definitely seem to play a different brand of defense than what we used to play.
I'd like to see our D be a little more sound fundamentally, the art of tackling isn't taught at the high school level like it used to be.

[soonerspudman]

If anything the only knock would be some of his blitz schemes seem to leave the remaining D backs on an island or confused about coverage responsibility. They're normally stellar when they need to be. Not really BV's fault against WV when the entire defense over runs a basic pitch sweep you've been playing against since fifth grade...

[Collier11]

What about Pete Carroll he's not to shabby at DC.

He said league, not all of CFB

[Collier11]

In the interest of full disclosure, I know jack-squat about how to coach a football defense.

I have no problems with BV other than the complexity of the defense. It seems to me most opposing big offensive plays are busts by the defense. I have to give credit to some offenses for seeing the holes (see UT TE plays last year) or great execution (Boise St trick plays) but more often than not, someone seems to miss an assignment, read, or whatever.

Not a slam on BV, but I sometimes think he should use the KISS principle.

Those trick plays against Boise were perfect play calls on our part, we just missed the play or got out of our lane

[JLEW1818]

Oh my mistake, I was about to say.

[Collier11]

Oh my mistake, I was about to say.

You're a fuggin Idiot!!!! :D :D ;)

[Speer]

Those trick plays against Boise were perfect play calls on our part, we just missed the play or got out of our lane

Agreed. As I said, great execution on the part of Boise St not a slam on BV or the D.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

He said league, not all of CFB


...or pros.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Agreed. As I said, great execution on the part of Boise St not a slam on BV or the D.


Yeah, but what about the first 3 quarters of that game?

[JLEW1818]

I was not referring to any type of league. My statement was BV is not the best DC in the league. League as in D1 football.

[KantoSooner]

I'm just back in the US after being gone for 15 years, so bear with me, but has BV had the whole package as far as players are concerned? He's always had some stars, and seems to coach linebackers as well as anyone; but it seems like every year there are some serious holes to be plugged. Partially, that might be simply the nature of college ball; but has OU had more holes than others? Interested in the board's perspective on this.

[JLEW1818]

Just a Random question. How many teams in the nation would Ryan Reynolds start for? I think people gossip about him so much it makes him sound like he's not a good player. The dudes a stud.

[Collier11]

Due to his lacking a huge amount of speed, I would say 80-90%

[soonerfan28]

I think Reynolds was a stud, but with 2 knee injuries I wouldn't be shocked if he ran a 5.0 40, but that's not all that makes a football player good. Reynolds seems to have intelligence and is pretty athletic considering those injuries. Since this is about Venables I will say that the guy has probably been given way too much credit for the failures of our defense, but we were also pretty spoiled by a better DC in Mike Stoops. With that said unless Stoops gets fired and is willing to come back and be the DC then I think we have the best thing out there right now and I wouldn't trade him for anybody but Mike.

[RedstickSooner]

I'd probably trade him for Bob, but Bob don't seem interested in doing the head coach / DC hybrid thing like Petey boy does.

[soonerfan28]

I'd probably trade him for Bob, but Bob don't seem interested in doing the head coach / DC hybrid thing like Petey boy does.
I was thinking that very thing.

[snp]

Yeah, but what about the first 3 quarters of that game?

Wasn't his fault either:

1st TD: Marcus Walker bites on play action and is burned for a 50 yard TD
2nd TD: PT turned it over, 9 yard scoring drive
3rd TD: Latimer whiffs on a tackle on a WR, WR scores with 33 seconds left in the half
4th TD: Pick-6
5th TD: Hook and Ladder, play call had it stopped but Lewis Baker leaves his outside containment when 3 guys already had swarmed him.
Overtime TD: Good play even if Zabransky was moving forward at the time of the snap. Reggie bit on the run and left his man, Latimer almost saved him but was a little short.
2 point conversion: Boise ran the same formation earlier in the year. The staff had that play sniffed out until they ran a play no one could have predicted.

Anyone who blames that Boise game on Venables was too drunk to remember the game or doesn't know what they're talking about.

[soonerfan28]

Wasn't his fault either:

1st TD: Marcus Walker bites on play action and is burned for a 50 yard TD
2nd TD: PT turned it over, 9 yard scoring drive
3rd TD: Latimer whiffs on a tackle on a WR, WR scores with 33 seconds left in the half
4th TD: Pick-6
5th TD: Hook and Ladder, play call had it stopped but Lewis Baker leaves his outside containment when 3 guys already had swarmed him.
Overtime TD: Good play even if Zabransky was moving forward at the time of the snap. Reggie bit on the run and left his man, Latimer almost saved him but was a little short.
2 point conversion: Boise ran the same formation earlier in the year. The staff had that play sniffed out until they ran a play no one could have predicted.

Anyone who blames that Boise game on Venables was too drunk to remember the game or doesn't know what they're talking about.

Yea, but isn't that why they get payed the big bucks, so that they get to take the blame.:D

[TXBOOMER]

BV is a good coach. Our scheme works great when we have superior athletes. When we play good athletic teams that can mix it up our base nickel defensive scheme seems to hurt us. Hopefully, we will get more of a push from the front this year, that should help. I'm not for getting rid of BV (yet :).

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm just back in the US after being gone for 15 years, so bear with me, but has BV had the whole package as far as players are concerned? He's always had some stars, and seems to coach linebackers as well as anyone; but it seems like every year there are some serious holes to be plugged. Partially, that might be simply the nature of college ball; but has OU had more holes than others? Interested in the board's perspective on this.

I agree with you, brother. Last year was a perfect example as we were thin on the D-line. When English was out with injuries, there was very little pass rush. I think OU has been a bit thin on D the last few years compared to other *elite* programs. I think Brent has produced excellent results if my perception is true.

[Charla]

I think we need to play more consistent on defense and it is the coaches jobs to get the players ready. Boise St. beat OU with plays that are taught to Pop Warner teams. If a top 10 or 15 D is good enough then we shouldn't expect to finish any higher than the top 10 or 15.

[MR2-Sooner86]

BV doesn't do that bad of a job. What's the worst game he has coached? USC. Our defense was just picked apart and gave up. Something none of us ever want to see again.

What are some others? WV? Over 500 yards and averaging almost 10 yards a snap?

What are some good ones though? The past two Big 12 Championships?

It seems to me we do good and very rarely **** up. However when we do **** up it seems like we do it hard. Why? I don't know.

[goingoneight]

I agree he's not the best DC in the league. But when you have an above average offense and an above average defense, I can't really complain. He gets hit a little harder then he should. Remember the players are the one's who run, move, shift, tackle, jump, swat, and think, not BV. Although if we lay another egg in a bowl game this year, you have to look at trying something new. The way I see it, I hope Arizona is below 500 this year so we can get Mike back possibly. I'm not saying that he's way better then BV but it has worked before. And I just like hearing on ESPN " The Stoop brothers"

In 2004, I noticed something wasn't the same... I have to be honest I was on the "fire Venables" bandwagon pretty much in the driver's seat after 55-19. However, I point out a lot of things all the time that are NOT excuses. They are the reasons why we lose games.

I'll give you that we do in fact lay a turd about once a year defensively. To be honest... I can think of three times in the last two years when the offensive staff had major egg on their faces as well. For all the hoo-ha Mike Stoops and Mike Leach get, their respective teams get drilled and schooled a lot, too. In fact, I've seen too many times when Leach's offense flat-out gets shut down... and you know his defense can't carry them. Let's not even go there with Arizona Mike's teams... he unfortunately makes Franchione look like a good head coach from time to time. Case in point: OU versus Iowa State 2007. 17 points? Against an eventual 3-win team? What the hell kind of butter did OUr offense wash theier hands in?

Is there anyone heads and heels better than BV at this point who you can honestly say to yourself that given the right breaks, we could recruit the southwest as dominantly as we have and always, regardless of conference strength or rebuilding... ALWAYS field a good defense overall? They're not robots, folks... they're amateur athletes. Add insult to injury... we don't have 200-man rosters anymore where you just plug in a new guy and go.

Let's look at a good BV Defense versus a perceived "great" Mike Stoops defense (which in BV's defense, he had a huge part in creating):

2000 OU D vs 2007 OU D.

Now, how good were the league offenses in 2000 versus 2007? This is one of those "times have changed a bit" arguments. Not an excuse, it's the truth. Let's take out a few starters from "Mike's D" against say Florida State and see how well we fare.

So a sick Autson English with a broken foot equals I'll say a Cory Heineke. Sit out your best corner Reggie Smith is a Derrick Strait or an Ontei Jones. Take into account that 2007 OU lost their best DE in game four, whereas 2000 OU didn't lose a starter all year long.
Take a few guys out on offense, too... cause a little bit of a scheme change without your best back and receiver... throw in over 100 yards just in O-line penalties... OU probably doesn't beat FSU. We were good in 2000, but face it.. we were'nt THAT good. No one is, really.

Attitude is everything. When Stoops's players want to win, they play lights out and usually dominate, no matter the foe. When they don't care or overestimate someone... well, not so easy to beat someone in a BCS Bowl who would give their left cojone to beat you. The thing about the BCS is... they're good teams... period. If you lay an offensive turd, you're going to fall behind without a superb defensive effort.

Coaching + Talent + Luck + Execution + Momentum + Attitude = Championship-caliber football. Take away any of the elements and anything can happen. If OU, with of without Mike Stoops can struggle against the likes of Oklahoma State and UAB... you bet your *** they'll get hammered if they don't play like a champion against BCS opponents.

I'm glad we've got BV in hindsight... all you can do is really hope things swing your way with what we've had going the last ten years. Sometimes you need the other team to gift-wrap you a touchdown to erase an embarassing defensive performance (see: aTm 2000), sometimes you need the D to step up to erase the appearance that your offense is overrated (see: Iowa State 2007).

Using the 2000 team as a measuring stick... how good is that OU team if Heupel sits out against Texas Tech (if it were on the road)? How good are they for 13 games if Heupel gets himself kicked off the team?

All would be cool if this team had won one of the last two bowl games, everyone would be cool and excited. Truth is, a quarterback leading the NCAA pass efficiency mark and tossing 36 TDs to 8 INTS (which could have been even better if not for the Tech fiasco) over 14 games is good. Having the kind of athletes to step up and dominate a team like Missouri in the CCG like they did is also a great thing. It just needs to be more consistent... as a whole. BV has had plenty of impressive showings in his time here. How many other people throughout the history of college football can say they shut out Vince Young? How many people last year kept Missouri's receivers out of the endzone? Yeah we looked bad against WVU, but how many of the rest of the country would have given up 70 or more in said circumstances? 2000 OU/FSU is a classic example of Stoops the Hunter versus Stoops the hunted, which is anytime the team doesn't exactly run over the opposition.

[snp]

So a sick Autson English with a broken foot equals I'll say a Cory Heineke. Sit out your best corner Reggie Smith is a Derrick Strait or an Ontei Jones. Take into account that 2007 OU lost their best DE in game four, whereas 2000 OU didn't lose a starter all year long.
Take a few guys out on offense, too... cause a little bit of a scheme change without your best back and receiver... throw in over 100 yards just in O-line penalties... OU probably doesn't beat FSU. We were good in 2000, but face it.. we were'nt THAT good. No one is, really.


Don't forget Granger and Holmes.

[JLEW1818]

I'm no saying BV is horrible at all. Just if we get dominated by an offense in a BCS bowl this year its time for a change in something.

[Scott D]

I'm no saying BV is horrible at all. Just if we get dominated by an offense in a BCS bowl this year its time for a change in something.

hopefully the offense won't lay another egg in another BCS bowl leaving the defense on the field for way too long again.

[soonerfan28]

I agree with you, brother. Last year was a perfect example as we were thin on the D-line. When English was out with injuries, there was very little pass rush. I think OU has been a bit thin on D the last few years compared to other *elite* programs. I think Brent has produced excellent results if my perception is true.

I agree that we were very thin after Williams and English were out of there and we really only had Dotson, Beal and Davis to help some, but were are stacked this year at D-end and we have a little better depth at DT. I wish they had left Simmons at DT. The dude is an awesome athlete and could easily be a monster on that side of the ball. We stil have McCoy Granger Bennett and Taylor (although the Taylor is listed as a DE on the official website). We are going to have awesome depth and with Chattanooga coming to town we can experiment a lot in that game to see who should be starting and who shouldn't at LB and DB.

[Collier11]

I think we need to play more consistent on defense and it is the coaches jobs to get the players ready. Boise St. beat OU with plays that are taught to Pop Warner teams. If a top 10 or 15 D is good enough then we shouldn't expect to finish any higher than the top 10 or 15.

The coaches can get their players ready all night long but when the players are overpursuing, leaving their lanes, and missing tackles it goes to the players shoulders or teaching fundamentals a little better.

A top 10-15 D will win you national championships so that theory is not valid at all!

[soonermix]

if defense wins championships then it is clear that BV is good enough to win conference championships my only question is how long conference championships are good enough? when is it time to say we need to try something else or go in a different direction? whether it be a different scheme defensively or a different coach.

[SoonerBBall]

I'm no saying BV is horrible at all. Just if we get dominated by an offense in a BCS bowl this year its time for a change in something.

That is a pretty ridiculous thing to say before the year even starts.

[soonerfan28]

If we get scored on by Chattanooga then is that going to be considered a disappoinment?

[Collier11]

7 or less against Chattanooga is all I will be happy with

[bonkuba]

That is a pretty ridiculous thing to say before the year even starts.

I understand what you are saying completely.....but having to sit through another butt-kicking in a bowl game is not going to be good. Again, I agree seems weird to speak about it before the season....BUT....having to go on past experiences.......geeeesh......and I mean wow.

I will be happy with ANY win in a bowl game to be honest this year. As always though....we are going to win it all!!! (my outlook every year!!)

Anyway, carry on :D :D

[JLEW1818]

hopefully the offense won't lay another egg in another BCS bowl leaving the defense on the field for way too long again.

28 points is good enough for an Oklahoma Team to win. The D was just not their at all. Like somebody said earlier, look who we had missing. Smith, English , Granger.

OH ya and holmes was gone. That was 4 of our 6 best players on defense. Harris and Lofton being the other two.

[MojoRisen]

Granger cost us, he is more of a stud in there than given credit for... ALso English being sick didn't help matters. It seemed to be a big drop off from those two to the next level.

Is RJ Washington going to be getting PT this year? Looks like he is weighing in the 240s...

[Collier11]

He has impressed thus far but who knows with him being a true freshman

[Scott D]

28 points is good enough for an Oklahoma Team to win. The D was just not their at all. Like somebody said earlier, look who we had missing. Smith, English , Granger.

OH ya and holmes was gone. That was 4 of our 6 best players on defense. Harris and Lofton being the other two.

*shrug* if we're going to be frank about ripping the D on this team, it is quite fair to say the only time the O showed up in a BCS bowl, was against WSU in the Rose Bowl, and the next best performance after that was in the Fiesta versus Sandlot U.

[Curly Bill]

He has two major problems IMO compared to Mike, he gets outschemed big time in Bowl games by the other teams Off Coordinator and he seems to call blitzes at the wrong time IMO.

Sorry I've been absent the past few days and missed the beginning of this debate, but as anyone knows who's been on here long I am not at all a BV fan. I think he's a good DC, not a great one, or even a very good one, merely good, and that is not up to OU standards. The two reasons mentioned above pretty much hit the nail on the head, except I would add that besides being outschemed in big time bowls there's usually a game or two during the season where this is also the case, and that besides often blitzing at bad times, our blitz package is terribly simplistic, very predictable, and thus easily picked up by the opposition offense...

...now to go read the entire thread and see who I'm gonna **** off with this :D

[soonerfan28]

Granger cost us, he is more of a stud in there than given credit for... ALso English being sick didn't help matters. It seemed to be a big drop off from those two to the next level.

Is RJ Washington going to be getting PT this year? Looks like he is weighing in the 240s...

Venables has said more then once that he would like to see Washington in there on 3rd down to just run the QB down, so I think he will see the field.

[jduggle]

Well.. at the risk of getting it thrown back in my face....

Some random thoughts....

BV relies too heavily on Cover 2 and Nickel formations... especially when he doesn't have the personnel to pull it off. In college, you have to have a great safety (Roy Williams worked well in the cover 2) and a great pass rush to pull off the Cover 2. Pro offenses eat up cover 2 defenses because they either leave the middle of the field wide open or play off the receivers too far and leave them open. You don't see much cover 2 in the pros anymore.

BV also puts too much emphasis on the big play. Sometimes you just have to play defense and forget about gambling on forcing turnovers.

It's possible that BV hasn't played much man defense because he really hasn't had any true corners. You can go down the list of all OUr secondary players who turned out to be fairly average.

One other quick thought is that BV's playbook is fairly limited. Every now and then I'd like to see him throw up a Ravens-esque 3-4 scheme, especially when it's clear during the game that we aren't getting any pass rush from the DE's.

One last thought... BV is really good at adjusting his headset and yelling at the players. I know it's not his personality, but college kids need the coaches to teach and the HC to do the yelling.

my two cents... that's about all it's worth....

[Curly Bill]

One other quick thought is that BV's playbook is fairly limited.

This is the truth...we're gonna be in a 2-deep zone regardless of the situation. 3rd and 4 yards to go, offense just needs to pick up a first down, we're still gonna be setting back there in the secondary 10-12 yards off every receiver so it's an easy 1st down.

[olevetonahill]

Im gonna say this and then STFU
Yall ferget Mike Coming Back! aint gonna Happen No way Jose . No How Cow .
The Next 1 to say they Hope Mike Fails At AZ gets Negged to Bolivia .
Just sayin .:D

[snp]

One other quick thought is that BV's playbook is fairly limited. Every now and then I'd like to see him throw up a Ravens-esque 3-4 scheme, especially when it's clear during the game that we aren't getting any pass rush from the DE's.


BV does use the 3-4 on passing downs.

[Big Red Ron]

I don't think there's a better d coordinator in the Big XII but he's also not the best in the nation.

[OU_Sooners75]

Yes I have cooled. But yes my opinion is about the same.

Brent Venerables is a heck of a coach. He is one of the top DC's in the nation.

My problem with his style is, well, his style.

What happened to that intensity and fire we saw when Mike was in charge? It seems to be missing.

BV can keep his job. But I think it is time to put him in the hot seat, if we have inconsistent play calling and another bowl blow up.

[ashley]

To say we are always going to be in two deep man is just not true. When WV scored on the lead option pass out of the gun we were in quarter quarter-halves. This is man on one side and cover two on the other. The right safety who was a sub that thriggered when the slot released straight up and their man came wide open. The other safety reached but could not get there. His asssignment is go man on straight up release and trigger for run if the receiver cracks. I am sure he was schooled a million times on this and just screwed up on an easy read that high school guys do all the time. If you watch them carefully they play quarter, quarter halves, cover two, man and cover three about an equal amount. You are seeing them line up in cover two and play the other coverages out of that pre snap look. As in disguised coverage.

[badger]

If Mike Stoops doesn't make it at Zona, I want him back.

But, because I wish Mikey the best, here's hoping that he succeed at Zona and Venables succeeds here.

But, I still want Stoops Jr. back if Az doesn't want him.

[Curly Bill]

If you watch them carefully they play quarter, quarter halves, cover two, man and cover three about an equal amount. You are seeing them line up in cover two and play the other coverages out of that pre snap look. As in disguised coverage.

If we're playing man in equal amounts to the amount of zone we play we must be disguising the absolute hell out of it because I ain't seeing it.

[jduggle]

To say we are always going to be in two deep man is just not true. When WV scored on the lead option pass out of the gun we were in quarter quarter-halves. This is man on one side and cover two on the other. The right safety who was a sub that thriggered when the slot released straight up and their man came wide open. The other safety reached but could not get there. His asssignment is go man on straight up release and trigger for run if the receiver cracks. I am sure he was schooled a million times on this and just screwed up on an easy read that high school guys do all the time. If you watch them carefully they play quarter, quarter halves, cover two, man and cover three about an equal amount. You are seeing them line up in cover two and play the other coverages out of that pre snap look. As in disguised coverage.

You are exactly correct... which brings up another point I forgot to mention:

The defensive schemes are much too complicated. It's very difficult for our players to use their inherent athleticism when they are trying so hard not to blow assignments and do something wrong.

Most of the big games OU has lost recently has not been because of a lack of offense..and certainly last year where we got unexpected great play from a freshman QB....but because of poor execution on defense. BV has to face some facts that when OU faces good offenses in big games he's doing something wrong. He must focus on a different approach. OU will beat most teams on pure athleticism, but good offenses with balanced, fast, creative attacks have exposed weaknesses in OU's defensive philosophy.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I personally think it would help the team to play a competitive game in the Big 12 Championship game. I think they blow those chumps out then walk around for a month thinking their **** don't stink. A nice struggle would keep them fired up.

[jduggle]

I will agree that last year there was a surprising let down in the Fiesta Bowl. OU also faced a very pissed off WVU team that was ready to fight and that coupled with our injuries on defense led to a very disappointing night. But...we can go down the list of games where OU has no such excuses and OU's defense just didn't have any answers.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Last year was a weird year too, I mean the National Champions even had games where they looked totally imcompetent

[olevetonahill]

If Mike Stoops doesn't make it at Zona, I want him back.

But, because I wish Mikey the best, here's hoping that he succeed at Zona and Venables succeeds here.

But, I still want Stoops Jr. back if Az doesn't want him.

Mike aint Coming Back Hon. We need to Look forward.
Even If Mike Gets ran off from AZ , He wont Be back . He will get another shot at a HC job . JMHO

[MR2-Sooner86]

I personally think it would help the team to play a competitive game in the Big 12 Championship game. I think they blow those chumps out then walk around for a month thinking their **** don't stink. A nice struggle would keep them fired up.

We don't need the Championship game for that. During the 2007 season there were plenty of close games during Big 12 play. A couple of them we lost. Do they just need to struggle during the Championship game and blow out all the other teams?

Colorado 24-27
Texas 28-21
Iowa State 17-7
Texas Tech 27-34

[BASSooner]

I have a solution.

Lou Holtz pep talk to BV personally. ;)

We should be golden after that.

[SoonerKnight]

ha!

[OUmillenium]

heh?

[SoonerKnight]

It's funny how people change their minds!

[Collier11]

Its called snap judgments, sports fans are the worst about overreacting

[Curly Bill]

Snap judgements, pfffft....

I've always been anti-BV.

[Collier11]

and youve mostly been wrong ;)

[Curly Bill]

and youve mostly been wrong ;)

The last 3 or 4 games prolly so...

...all the years and games leading up to these last 3 or 4, not so much. :D

[JLEW1818]

ban him!

[Curly Bill]

ban him!

STFU nOOb! :cool:

[Collier11]

The last 3 or 4 games prolly so...

...all the years and games leading up to these last 3 or 4, not so much. :D

Yea, we have only been to 2 natl title games and won 4 conf titles with Brent running our D :pop:

[SoonerKnight]

:pop: :D

[gaylordfan1]

Is someone tying to prove a point? Whats up with the past posts?

[SoonerKnight]

Yes! And I got bored!! :D Sorry but it was fun!!

[SoonerKnight]

This one is only a year old the other one is from 2006 :D

[CrimsonJim]

Different year, same result: no MNC under a BV defense.

[gaylordfan1]

:D I wasn't here then... so it was good to get a taste of the past. All good!:D

[CrimsonJim]

Some things never change. :D

[Collier11]

Is someone tying to prove a point? Whats up with the past posts?

Nah, its just a friendly BV rivalry that Curly and I have, he hates BV and I am right...good times :D

[rawlingsHOH]

To say we are always going to be in two deep man is just not true. When WV scored on the lead option pass out of the gun we were in quarter quarter-halves. This is man on one side and cover two on the other. The right safety who was a sub that thriggered when the slot released straight up and their man came wide open. The other safety reached but could not get there. His asssignment is go man on straight up release and trigger for run if the receiver cracks. I am sure he was schooled a million times on this and just screwed up on an easy read that high school guys do all the time. If you watch them carefully they play quarter, quarter halves, cover two, man and cover three about an equal amount. You are seeing them line up in cover two and play the other coverages out of that pre snap look. As in disguised coverage.
/\
|
|

Wow!

Someone who actually watched what the defense did!

[Collier11]

Not to mention against WVU and Boise to name two of the bigger so called defensive failures we had a ton of turnovers and 3 and outs on offense that left our D's on the short field for a bunch of the game and they eventually wore out from being on the field so much.

Against Boise we had 3 Turnovers to their 1 and we were minus in the TOP by 8 minutes

Against WVU it was 20-15 in the 3rd quarter and then our D just completely wore out after all the 2nd half offensive failures

[rawlingsHOH]

Against WVU it was 20-15 in the 3rd quarter and then our D just completely wore out after all the 2nd half offensive failures

Also against WVU...
-Demarcus Granger (who was playing at an all-conference level) was out, suspended.
-Lendy Holmes, the free safety in the nickel package (which we would have used all game) didn't make grades.
-Auston English, who was all-world in 07, was hurt and sick, played sparingly.
-Reggie Smith, our best corner (especially against the run), was out. Forcing Franks into the game, and he was overwhelmed.
-Nic Harris hardly played (sick/hurt can't remember?), forcing a very rusty Darrien Williams into the game, and that showed as well.

If we would have won that game it would have been a miracle!

[Collier11]

Exactly, thats what ive been trying to get across to Curly

While the D hasnt always lived up to expectations under BV, alot of the scores that people gripe about are taken out of context. Hell, BV shut down #1 Mizzou twice in 07, shut down Tech and Florida last yr, there are alot of big games that his D has played well in

[boomermagic]

Exactly, thats what ive been trying to get across to Curly

While the D hasnt always lived up to expectations under BV, alot of the scores that people gripe about are taken out of context. Hell, BV shut down #1 Mizzou twice in 07, shut down Tech and Florida last yr, there are alot of big games that his D has played well in

Agreed ! The Florida loss certainly can't be blamed on the defense..

[Collier11]

OU currently #6 nationally in total D and #2 nationally in scoring D despite playing the 2nd hardest schedule in the country. We are #2 in the Big 12 in total and #1 in scoring D.

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?year=2009&org=522

[Curly Bill]

Hey Collier, run that list by me of all those head coaching jobs that BV has turned down. ;)

[Curly Bill]

Holy shizam! We shut down Mizzu twice!!!



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



:D

[Collier11]

Ive already given you that list several times, besides, whats that have to do with the price of tea in china?

[Curly Bill]

Ive already given you that list several times, besides, whats that have to do with the price of tea in china?

You have given me no concrete list. You have mentioned rumors and the like...



I just thought with him such an allsome DC we should talk about how he's been soooooooo in demand by schools to be their main man. :P

[mightysooner]

You have given me no concrete list. You have mentioned rumors and the like...



I just thought with him such an allsome DC we should talk about how he's been soooooooo in demand by schools to be their main man. :P


Venables interviewed for the Clemson and Washington jobs. Neither of those two crap programs ended up hiring him.

[Curly Bill]

Leach was snapped up, Mangino snapped up, Mike snapped up, Sumlin got a job, hell, even Chuck Long got a HC job.

Musclehead is still here...

I'm sure that means nothing at all.

[Collier11]

You ever think BV didnt want a HC job yet, hell he is young. There is no concrete list cus usually schools dont put out press releases saying they attempted to hire a guy and he said no.

Mizzou he turned down reportedly, same with Clemson reportedly, after that it is pure rumor but there are a couple others that I heard really wanted him

[Curly Bill]

So....he's "reportedly" been offered a job or two, and there are "rumors" a couple of others really wanted him.

I see.

[Collier11]

How many jobs did Charlie Strong get offered, Muschamp, etc...exactly, you cant answer it, you are just grasping for straws. Those things often arent made public unless they are leaked

[mightysooner]

You ever think BV didnt want a HC job yet, hell he is young. There is no concrete list cus usually schools dont put out press releases saying they attempted to hire a guy and he said no.

Mizzou he turned down reportedly, same with Clemson reportedly, after that it is pure rumor but there are a couple others that I heard really wanted him

So he turned down Mizzou and Clemsen? Is he holding out for a real management position or something? Clemsen would've been a good job for him in a mediocre conference that he wouldn't have to face a lot of top coaches in. If he "turned down Clemsen", he needs a better agent. But I don't think that's what happened. I think he got turned down. Same with Washington.

And when did he interview at Mizzou? Last I saw Pinkel got a big contract extension and wasn't ever in danger of losing his job.

[SoonerKnight]

He won't leave! He loves it here!

[Curly Bill]

How many jobs did Charlie Strong get offered, Muschamp, etc...exactly, you cant answer it, you are just grasping for straws. Those things often arent made public unless they are leaked

Strong and Muschamp....:confused:


I thought we were talking about Musclehead?

...and all the allsome jobs he's turned down cause he's so loyal and all. :D

[SoonerKnight]

Hey Curly you know secretly he is your hero! :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

CB actually supplies BV with all his game plans.

[Curly Bill]

CB actually supplies BV with all his game plans.

Only here recently actually -- you did notice the defense has played better here of late right? ;)

[Collier11]

I posted in another thread but I thought I would bump this for you Curly

Overall

OU #2 in total D in the conf right behind UT
OU #2 in scoring D in front on ut Remember we played 2 ranked teams non conf, they played 4 HS teams

We are also ahead of them in Pass Def efficiency which has been an issue the past two yrs

IN Conf games only

OU ahead of ut in scoring and total D...I guess the guy can coach a little after all

BTW, here are the numbers if somehow in your crazy mind you dont believe me

http://www.big12sports.com/fls/10410/pdfs/football/weekly-release.pdf