Which Is The Better City?

[r5TPsooner]

Duke it out.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Crescent>Cement, no contest.

[tommieharris91]

5 pages, then a lock.

[Whet]

better at what?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

McAlester

[goingoneight]

Dammm... dead even. This should get interesting (until the mods wake up that is).

[SCOUT]

Ilion, NY

[yermom]

only because Norman wasn't on the list :D

[SicEmBaylor]

Tulsa>OKC

[OU-HSV]

Tulsa>OKC

ditto

[MrJimBeam]

Stroud>Chandler

[olevetonahill]

Shoulda had " Slapout" On there :D

[Jimminy Crimson]

Tulsa doesn't even have major league sports...


















;)

[olevetonahill]

Tulsa doesn't even have major league sports Yet...


















;)

Fixed Bro
:cool:

[StormySooner-IN]

Been to OKC twice.

Never been to no place called 'Tulsa'...
;)

[olevetonahill]

Been to OKC twice.

Never been to no place called 'Tulsa'...
;)

Poor deprived child !:eek:

[Sooner24]

A couple of weeks ago I rode the train to OKC, walked across the street to my hotel and had more than I could do or see in the next two days all within walking distance of my hotel room. I don't think I could do that in Tulsa.

[BudSooner]

Tulsa doesn't even have major league sports...until the Sonics decide that the Ford Center is more akin to the Edsel Center...and make tracks down the 'pike and move into the crown jewel of the states arenas, the BOK center.


















;)

It would not surprise me in the least......

[Lott's Bandana]

OKC is a model for other cities in the country that have sent representatives to learn how a really successful municipal government works. Better city?

OKC has built a thriving downtown area for activities/dining/venues/art, etc.

Sports events, festivals, name recognition nationally: OKC

Tulsa has Wild Oats.

Push.

[r5TPsooner]

OKC is a model for other cities in the country that have sent representatives to learn how a really successful municipal government works. Better city?

OKC has built a thriving downtown area for activities/dining/venues/art, etc.

Sports events, festivals, name recognition nationally: OKC

Tulsa has Wild Oats.

Push.


Did you just use OKC and art in the same sentence? You must not get out of Oklahoma very much because that is one area that OKC is very weak in.

[BudSooner]

OKC is a model for other cities in the country that have sent representatives to learn how a really successful municipal government works. Better city?
Actually that is correct, and add it has better maintained streets/highways
OKC has built a thriving downtown area for activities/dining/venues/art, etc.
Art...meh, Dining/Venues...see Brookside/Riverwalk
Sports events, festivals, name recognition nationally: OKC
Yeah, name recognition...soley because it is OKLAHOMA city, derrrrrrrr, sporting events...that will change once the BOK center is finished though i'm not too keen on downsizing the Drillers ballpark and moving it downtown, also Skelly Stadium(NOT HA CHAPMAN DAMMIT!)is being redone

Tulsa has Wild Oats, and OKC has skanky chicks.

[Lott's Bandana]

Did you just use OKC and art in the same sentence? You must not get out of Oklahoma very much because that is one area that OKC is very weak in.

Been to Kansas City, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, Ft Worth, Taipei and San Francisco this year and visited each city's art museums...is that "getting out"?

r5, I am a proud member of the OKC Museum of Art, and no...we aren't Ft Worth, Houston or NY, but our museum is a quality collection, with the Chihuly centerpiece and quite active membership...I'm pleased we have it. I know it isn't OKC, but the "Fred" is damn impressive too. I love that I live 2 miles from Mssrs Renior, Degas, Monet, Van Gogh and Pissaro...to name a few.

The Civic Center has the Phil, Broadway Series and plays, Carpenter Square Theater is a great date. Cowboy Hall (old skool name), the new Native American Cultural Center (under construction), the IAO Gallery and Paseo.

'Nuff to keep ya bizzy, m'thinks.

[King Crimson]

Lott: i don't know exactly who does it but there's a pretty decent (international/"indie") film series in OKC. maybe it's the OKC Museum of Art. i see the monthly schedule at my pops and his wife's house when i visit (she's responsible, my dad is kind of iffy on most "arty" films but he goes since it's part of the social life--she's from Nichols Hills, so that's her scene and he wants to make her happy. he'd rather play golf). they get some good stuff that makes the rounds at bigger, "more cultural" cities.

[Lott's Bandana]

OKC has built a thriving downtown area for activities/dining/venues/art, etc.
Art...meh, Dining/Venues...see Brookside/Riverwalk
Sports events, festivals, name recognition nationally: OKC
Yeah, name recognition...soley because it is OKLAHOMA city, derrrrrrrr, sporting events...that will change once the BOK center is finished though i'm not too keen on downsizing the Drillers ballpark and moving it downtown, also Skelly Stadium(NOT HA CHAPMAN DAMMIT!)is being redone

Tulsa has Wild Oats, and OKC has skanky chicks.




OKC has built a thriving downtown area for activities/dining/venues/art, etc.
Art...meh, Dining/Venues...see Brookside/Riverwalk


Key word in my sentence: downtown. You forgot to add Cherry Street, and again, my point is...downtown.

Name recognition? Well, then you would argue Nevada City is more recognizable than Vegas, derrrrrr?

The BOK center is a big tin spaceship that will be glad to get OKC NBA pre-season games and an occasional Conference USA basketball tourney.

Ever been to a Quick Trip on Admiral on a hot summer night? All the skank a man could need...(trust me on this):eek:

[BudSooner]

OKC also has better sewer drainage as well, it's located in the downtown area as well.....better known as the canal. ;)

"Need used tires? Used tampons? A plastic cup to spit in while taking in the events downtown? well, come on down to the OKC canal, just reach in and get you some........"

[Harry Beanbag]

I don't really understand all the OKC vs. Tulsa angst.

[Lott's Bandana]

Lott: i don't know exactly who does it but there's a pretty decent (international/"indie") film series in OKC. maybe it's the OKC Museum of Art.

Your Highness:
The Thurs-Sun films are great, with many art flicks shown at 5pm and 8pm...dinner at the cafe, movie, walk to the Red Piano at the Skirvin for drinks...


This week:



The OKCMOA provides links on it's site to downtown venues. click here. (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfj--3ozj76jvM0QwGA7q843j9UV4cyBsxh-FmKCS06EkHU5F8nIKjzr51J4k6tc3MvTtWQdqRviK0vpmyFXFe 1ybEaJ6X4C767OzoDpkgQbmakwJPIx4YjMuKVLcLOIV4J35TSD rW-vUswuuHj1Dknh)


For live music, comedy & more in Bricktown, which there is a lot, click here (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfiOMphQZ69kfF_VVqyl80niaFcSdJ U7XF29msTxkyRvML-_jt07wqdUSRdn7ClUzIovsFmrKL8-gZFyohe5XiYPy4gNtYI2HqNQ39aa5PqYMA==).



Please join us this Thursday for Cocktails on the Skyline (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfi9LwJa8RVI0PttBCYPFt5CSNyqGh UP20j6PONCLWUE5xhuNcmfXhTnFsn4leAa6A5MgZoAC6IpCich SU9PF8aXOEtPceV3aYWXe8OfjKDbk5eQIHKpavxheGDMzbCQlu 4fQiWsQbFG8w==) This Thursday's band is Bruce Benson. Last call at 10pm. Music starts at 6:30pm.


To sign up for the Thursday Roof Terrace Alert e-mail [email protected]. To get an example of the alert, read last week's by clicking here. (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfjMpCZGfla7ydtWRrOOAEASGq6pmJ WtpjepX9DvDtIiW9-PNq6xNVsEB_gEg6esS7xojYwJLfuGDtxq9ELxEFzFPN34OqFa6 U5upMhZ4bnJvSMQFAzTKdr0sxodXBVATnKt4Zko5eD9H95qnjL bpwzJSMltXr50WDQ=)

Roman Art from the Louvre
http://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs027/1102055440764/img/89.jpg?a=1102154403324

Visitor comments posted online
The crowds have been great for Roman Art from the Louvre (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfgtRMLK4ch3ik33VI2fx2JZco9heU uUtJ65rp89_7EFvd0jwg782UN5rApM9oOeH5JLCrnw9ZoyS5s-tQ82LtOAOWhNJPzAbGUUNydITFYkUXC-gYuCjRuzdbEd4FUmYOM=). It's truly been wonderful to experience. Visitors in the gallery can leave comments in the interactive stations, and we now have them posted online for you to view. Visit: Roman Art Comments Page (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfiWYU2iiFp92sLyz91Ii3mcLaSgxW EnXPIl3MjwqpuK1aCmNe1JHZ3rTFfFUPUWfzTeHXW5asMm6FgA cxGJictxL6m9-DRftZog_rNgP6L68Jt-TwW1QG8DSo5eWTCHn_LYprVl29v5P7gk8xhDGUKje3zSkYaCMH BWwWTLt_Drog==). It's great to see where everyone is from. If you have relatives in town for the holiday, please bring them by! The OKCMOA will be closed for July 4th but will reopen bright and early at 10am on Saturday, July 5 until 5pm and Sunday, noon-5pm. Tuesday & Wednesday, 10am to 5pm and Thursday & Friday (except for July 4th), 10am-9pm.


Three different film options for the holiday weekend


Thursday, July 3, 7:30pm

(http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/)
Art 365 (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfipOJswDz--IhGKA_wPDnduHn-NdBuknQHVEfzaftrq9JmYD6uu4ybQAlPav2IFWFJelYMElej8-QMb7ispaEditgBTvs89yv6T4IsFi7x2Cw==)
http://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs027/1102055440764/img/82.jpg?a=1102154403324
In this feature documentary, six Oklahoma artists are followed as they develop a body of work that expresses their identities as artists. The film focuses on a year in the life of the artists chosen to be part of the Art 365 exhibit, the latest exhibition from Oklahoma Visual Artists Coalition. Directors: Melissa Scaramucci & Cacky Poarch 2008 USA 60min. NR HDdigital Visit the Art365 (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfhLoRkrqiv9uZL3dtZws2rvXR_iP7 VJpI4F_VdYfj9CrCrKCoFaGfzoMvVgVlDUoG8fwXsr1prSQeIf A9IwFuaXfQMftxdR2GVKA-j_MG1J2f_7-7sHjy451JpxP1b_iaYXoBhXrTrpBA==) page from the Oklahoma Visual Artists Coalition's site (OVAC).



Director Bob Ray in Person for Q&A
http://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs027/1102055440764/img/79.jpg?a=1102154403324



Saturday, July 5, 5:30pm & 8pm

Hell on Wheels (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfipOJswDz--IhGKA_wPDnduHn-NdBuknQHVEfzaftrq9JmYD6uu4ybQAlPav2IFWFJelYMElej8-QMb7ispaEditgBTvs89yv6T4IsFi7x2Cw==) takes a from-the-trenches look at the dizzying clash of athleticism, exhibitionism, egos, politics, and business that is modern-era roller derby. A group of hard-hitting Texas women overcome myriad obstacles in resurrecting and revamping the sport, only to find internal strife ripping the fledgling organization apart. Two leagues emerge from the clash, and what follows ignites an international roller derby revival. Director: Bob Ray 2007 USA 90min. NR HDdigital. In collaboration with the Oklahoma Victory Dolls (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfhApFLQ8YHlgAuHTXHZACgvQoEVxX 05T1YbIyTBwYTrAeiepZQOlFRbTmPsCp7yuTExVqzTcRuXta6-1AaH8uC_3n3FW3E4T02P-TjxqSbe8RzGTLC7Wn5u)


Opera in HD from La Scala
http://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs027/1102055440764/img/81.jpg?a=1102154403324

Sunday, July 6, 2pm
Mari Stuarda (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfipOJswDz--IhGKA_wPDnduHn-NdBuknQHVEfzaftrq9JmYD6uu4ybQAlPav2IFWFJelYMElej8-QMb7ispaEditgBTvs89yv6T4IsFi7x2Cw==) (Mary Stuart) is a tragedia lirica, in two acts by Gaetano Donizetti about the lives of Mary, Queen of Scots and her cousin Queen Elizabeth I. During the negotiations of a marriage proposal between Queen Elizabeth and the King of France, Lord Talbot, intercedes on behalf of the royal prisoner Mary Stuart, imprisoned since fleeing from Scotland. The Queen is torn between sympathy for Mary and fear that she is plotting against her. As the queens confront one another, each is already convinced that the other is haughty, yet the final triumph proves elusive to either one. Approximate running time: 2 hours 45 minutes. Director: Pier Luigi Pizzi. Conductor: Antonino Fogliani

SPECIAL PRICE: $20 Adults/ $18 Members, Students, Seniors. Advance tickets are on sale now. Call 405-278-8237, Tuesday through Saturday, 10am to 5pm.

For dinner & a movie, click here (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001MYlB7IJ7tfi48PxZ_B1FB1xcZnloIQzwLGVD9T KF8ZIdAKMLcLIiDdKgLqr9B1mVQMnRh5UMbY_u70oVap9ZSKk-Me7L_aoK-0r2noN3_LU2L5LH9hiQLtEAs2--oRrDLcALB0_AKMQ=).







(http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/)

[King Crimson]

I don't really understand all the OKC vs. Tulsa angst.

you and me both, brother. i live in Colorado and will always consider Norman "home"...and as a distanced observer, it's kinda silly.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't really understand all the OKC vs. Tulsa angst.After all, it's Phoenix that has Bill Bidwill!

[BudSooner]

Not so much on angst, just goofy competition...much like Battle of the Network stars.


Without the obligatory boob shots though.

[Lott's Bandana]

OKC also has better sewer drainage as well, it's located in the downtown area as well.....better known as the canal. ;)

"Need used tires? Used tampons? A plastic cup to spit in while taking in the events downtown? well, come on down to the OKC canal, just reach in and get you some........"

Ok Bud, I'll give you this one. OKC's ditch cannot compare with the volume of gaak distributed by Tulsa's R-Kansas.

[Lott's Bandana]

you and me both, brother. i live in Colorado and will always consider Norman "home"...and as a distanced observer, it's kinda silly.


I live in Norman as well, King...but coincidently, I was sitting in the Red Piano bar last night with my striking, publicly skankless, attorney/professor date, thinking about when I left OK for the military in 1980, OKC was a dirty truck stop that I only had really visited if there was a good concert at The Myriad. Almost 30 years later, I find myself defending what has been a dramatic and impressive cultural and attitude change.

Oh, and I rave about how cool Tulsa is, as well. Nowhere will you find such an openly faith-based, conservative metropolitan area with such diametrically opposed gems like D-Fest, Brookside and the Sherwin Miller Jewish Museum of Art.

Push.

[Sooner24]

Did you just use OKC and art in the same sentence? You must not get out of Oklahoma very much because that is one area that OKC is very weak in.

I just attended the "Roman Art from the Louvre" in OKC. What's a bunch of redneck Okies need with art anyway? :D

[tommieharris91]

I just attended the "Roman Art from the Louvre" in OKC. What's a bunch of redneck Okies need with art anyway? :D

It dun makes pretty good shootin targets.

[Lott's Bandana]

It dun makes pretty good shootin targets.


Ha! Nekkid with no arms...

[SteelClip49]

Tulsa has a golf course, Quiktrips and this hot girl I like....other than that Oklahoma City rules!!!

[silverwheels]

Slapout.

[BigRedJed]

I don't really understand all the OKC vs. Tulsa angst.
I understand it, I just don't agree with it. What it boils down to is that Tulsa spent a century being the hands-down coolest city in Oklahoma. More money, great architecture, better natural setting, more culture. Oklahoma City was decidedly blue collar (NTTAWWT) and unapologetically unsophisticated.

There was some angst back then, but not nearly as much. Both cities pretty much accepted that Tulsa was sleeker and cooler.

It was much like the dorky, plain sister that grew up alongside the pretty sister that everyone fawned over. She might have been a little resentful, but she knew her place.

A few years back, OKC decided to make a conscious effort to change things. Not how they compared to Tulsa, mind you, but how they compared to the old Oklahoma City. And how they compared to everyone else. OKC made a couple billion dollars of investment in itself, and presto! The city suddenly had some cool stuff going on. LOTS of cool stuff going on. And lots of people started paying attention.

Sort of like the dorky sister getting her braces out, getting contacts, a new hairdo, putting on some nice clothes... ...and all of the boys suddenly noticing.

Back in Tulsa, political infighting and unapologetically cannibalistic suburbs started taking their toll. A city that can and should be one of the great cities in the midwest (or wherever we are), started falling behind a bit, something it had never done. And when I say falling behind, I don't mean to OKC, I just mean in general.

Sort of like the hot sister putting on a few too many pounds, making bad choices in fashion, boyfriends, whatever, and suddenly looking in the mirror and realizing she's looking a little rough. At the same time, she looks at her formerly dorky sister, who's looking better all of the time, getting attention and dates, and instead of going to the gym or cutting back on the pie, she gets resentful.

The formerly dorky sister makes no secret that she likes all of the attention she's getting, which further irks the still pretty (but now slightly haggard) sister to no end.

Now, this can go one of two ways. If things go badly, the formerly hottest sister might drown herself in ice cream, or perhaps take up a meth habit. She might spend all of her time ridiculing the newly-hot sister as a "slut" who doesn't deserve the attention she's getting. She might make fun of her sister's new clothes and her boyfriends. The newly-hot sister might throw it right back at her, calling her a fat, meth addicted skank. And their relationship might always be bitter. But even if the newly-hot sister gets married and has a mostly happy life, she'll still, deep down inside, be worse off for not having a healthy relationship with sis.

The other way, the way that I hope it goes down, is that the once-hot sister looks at herself in the mirror and says "you know what, I'm still pretty hot, and with a little work I can be smokin' again. And it's OK that my sister isn't dorky anymore. In fact, she's sort of interesting."

And the formerly-dorky, now-hot sister says "you know what, let's go shopping! And to the gym! And let's go get a makeover together!"

And after that, they go out for a night on the town and figure out that two hot girls out on the town together get way more play than one bitter girl sitting in the corner saying catty **** about her sister.

The end.

[BigRedJed]

My transformation to badger is now complete.

[silverwheels]

Wow.

[BigRedJed]

That's what I said.

[royalfan5]

I like Omaha.

[Flagstaffsooner]

I like Omaha.You would.:confused:

Tulsa has Dog Sex Tapes (http://newsok.com/article/3262499?topten_check=yes)
Nuff said.

Flagstaff>OKC>Dog Sex City

[BigRedJed]

Heh. Her partner's last name is Seigfried.

DOWN, BOY!!

[Sooner24]

The only people I have ever known that thought Tulsa was better than OKC are the people that lived in Tulsa.

[soonerbrat]

Edmond > Moore

[BigRedJed]

The only people I have ever known that thought Tulsa was better than OKC are the people that lived in Tulsa.
Well, I never lived in Tulsa, and I always thought it was, back ina day.

Of course, I didn't grow up here, either.

[King Crimson]

Edmond > Moore

there's a revelation. though, to be honest, Edmond really sucks too. talk about cardboard, strip mall, cul-de-sac "Harvest Ridge" or "The Bays at the Oaks" goofball sub-division names?

Edmond was OK when it had one high school.

[CORNholio]

I don't really get excited about gas stations (quick trip) or artsy stuff. So I would take OKC in a head to head deathmatch over Tulsa. But there are much worse places to be than Tulsa.

[OUbones]

yawn

[sooner2b09]

Edmond>Any other rich suberb in any city

[Newbomb Turk]

there's a revelation. though, to be honest, Edmond really sucks too. talk about cardboard, strip mall, cul-de-sac "Harvest Ridge" or "The Bays at the Oaks" goofball sub-division names?

Edmond was OK when it had one high school.

the only thing I like about Edmond is Coffee Creek.

[yermom]

some of you people get way too caught up in the OKC/Tulsa thing

personally, i used to hate OKC but i've warmed to it a lot since Bricktown got cool and i've started discovering the Asian stuff on 23rd

i could pretty much do without NW OKC and Edmond though ;)

[Sooner24]

Edmond>Any other rich suberb in any city

OP Kansas blows the doors off of Edmond.

[MR2-Sooner86]

OP Kansas blows the doors off of Edmond.

Yeah isn't that whole county like one of the richest counties in the country? I remember driving around in that area and just seeing all these cars driving around and then seeing the neighborhoods they drive out of. You sure don't see those types of towns in Oklahoma.

[12]

SHATTUCK!

Odanorth agrees. Screw you city fellers. ;)

[KC//CRIMSON]

Yeah isn't that whole county like one of the richest counties in the country? I remember driving around in that area and just seeing all these cars driving around and then seeing the neighborhoods they drive out of. You sure don't see those types of towns in Oklahoma.

A few years ago it was the second richest in the country, I have no idea what it is now. I live in Johnson County, just not OP.:cool:

[BigRedJed]

I guess it fell out of the top 100. Most rankings I see like that are based on zip code, not county. Of course, it could also be based on total individual assets :confused: Couldn't find a source for that, and I'm not sure it would be possible to get that information, anyway. Here are a couple of sources using other methods:

100 wealthiest zip codes based on tax returns (http://wealth.mongabay.com/tables/100_income_zip_codes-10000.html)

Wealthiest zip codes based on home prices (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/million_zips/index.html)

[BigRedJed]

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States), Johnson County is the 43rd richest county in the U.S., with a per capita income of $30,919. No Oklahoma counties on the list. It's hard for a whole county to show a huge per-capita, because in most counties you still have some po' folks keeping the average down. Zip codes can be far more exclusive.

[BigRedJed]

KC//CRIMSON is probably one of the po' folks keeping down the JC average. He spends too much going to kickass rock shows. :D

[JohnnyMack]

Tulsa is a more attractive, culturally advanced city, however as Jed said, it can't get out of its own way.

OKC has simply outhustled Tulsa of late. They did what was necessary to grow and Tulsa allowed political infighting to ruin it. For now.

[Sooner24]

Tulsa is a more attractive, culturally advanced city, however as Jed said, it can't get out of its own way.

OKC has simply outhustled Tulsa of late. They did what was necessary to grow and Tulsa allowed political infighting to ruin it. For now.

I what way is Tulsa more attractive?

[Sooner24]

Overland Park is the second most populous city in the U.S. state of Kansas. It is located in Johnson County, is a satellite city of Kansas City, Missouri, and is located near Olathe, Lenexa, Prairie Village and Leawood. The population was 149,080 at the 2000 census. In 2006 CNN/Money and Money magazine ranked Overland Park sixth on its list of the 100 Best Cities to Live in the United States. [3]

The median income for a household in the city was $62,116, and the median income for a family was $77,176. Males had a median income of $52,072 versus $34,186 for females. The per capita income for the city was $32,069. 3.2% of the population and 2.1% of families were living below the poverty line, including 2.9% of those under the age of 18 and 3.5% of those 65 and older.

According to a 2006 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $68,404, and the median income for a family was $84,720.[2]

[Sooner24]

Edmond

The median income for a household in the city was $54,556, and the median income for a family was $65,230. Males had a median income of $46,833 versus $28,231 for females. The per capita income for the city was $26,517. About 4.4% of families and 7.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 6.2% of those under age 18 and 5.3% of those age 65 or over.

[JohnnyMack]

I what way is Tulsa more attractive?

philbrook, the travis mansions, skelly mansion, superior architecture, Woodward park, the charm of brookside and cherry street, southern hills.

And from a geographical standpoint, tulsa has hills and trees. Srsly. Even jed and dean will give me that one.

[Okla-homey]

philbrook, the travis mansions, skelly mansion, superior architecture, Woodward park, the charm of brookside and cherry street, southern hills.

And from a geographical standpoint, tulsa has hills and trees. Srsly. Even jed and dean will give me that one.

I agree, but, we must admit, Tulsa continues to more or less "coast" on incredible investment by fabulously wealthy oil folk in the 20's, 30's and 40's and the natural beauty of our environment.

We need to throttle-up now. We need to leverage our glorious past in new and exciting ways. The good news is, we have a great deal to work with and most definitely are not starting from scratch like many cities have had to do.

That's also why I literally get sick to my stomach when I think of all our art deco architectural gems that went under the wrecking ball.

[StoopTroup]

If I had never been to Tulsa..I would think OKC was a better place.

[Sooner24]

If I had never been to Tulsa..I would think OKC was a better place.

I have been to Tulsa..I think OKC is a better place.

[JohnnyMack]

Trying to argue that OKC is more attractive than Tulsa is like saying that if OSU beats OU in football, then OSU has a superior football program. An urban renewal project doesn't mean you have a more beautiful city. Just like one win in a football series doesn't mean you have a superior football program.

[Sooner24]

philbrook, the travis mansions, skelly mansion, superior architecture, Woodward park, the charm of brookside and cherry street, southern hills.

And from a geographical standpoint, tulsa has hills and trees. Srsly. Even jed and dean will give me that one.

Hills and trees I will give you.

[JohnnyMack]

I'm not having a discussion as to which city has it going on right now. Which city has more to do, you asked in what ways is Tulsa more attractive than OKC. While clearly a matter of subjectivity, I think arguing for OKC on this point is a losing battle.

[Sooner24]

I'm not having a discussion as to which city has it going on right now. Which city has more to do, you asked in what ways is Tulsa more attractive than OKC. While clearly a matter of subjectivity, I think arguing for OKC on this point is a losing battle.

One mans opinion.

If you look at the poll Tulsa is losing.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm not having a discussion as to which city has it going on right now. Which city has more to do, you asked in what ways is Tulsa more attractive than OKC. While clearly a matter of subjectivity, I think arguing for OKC on this point is a losing battle.


And an irrelevant one.

[JohnnyMack]

stfu, you live in a desert.

[Flagstaffsooner]

And an irrelevant one.Well, Harry, how about Phoenix/Tucson?:D

[StoopTroup]

I have been to Tulsa..I think OKC is a better place.

I do have to say this about OKC...

It definitely has improved in the last 20 years.

I used to hate to go there.

They are on a much better track when it comes to making it a cool Capitol City.

I like the fact that they are improving and becoming a place where Companies want to move to and a place where people want to visit. It helps all of our fellow Oklahomans.

Who knows...maybe someday I might even change my opinion when it comes to which is a better city. Tulsa better get it together or OKC will leave them in the dust.

[soonerboomer93]

OKC vs. Tulsa =

:les:CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!!!!

[Harry Beanbag]

stfu, you live in a desert.


Hmmm, I was wondering why it was so ****ing hot. Thanks.

[Harry Beanbag]

Well, Harry, how about Phoenix/Tucson?:D


They're both ugly as sin, and Tucson is a ****hole. I don't feel the need to pump up the place I live as something that it isn't. All things being equal, I'd rather live in Flag or Show Low.

[r5TPsooner]

I definitely think that Tulsa has a lot going for it and the NBA coming to OKC doesn't mean crap to most people. As a matter of fact, I lived within 30 minutes of seeing the NBA play every night for ten years and I went to see them play a total of ZERO times. My neighbors who had lived there are of there lives combined went to a total of five game EVER between them and we were all huge sports fans.

I see the NBA being like the OU basketball team in a few years as far as attendance and support goes....

Tulsa is by far the "prettier" city and I always enjoy my time there, however the traffic jams in the main shopping and eatery areas is 2x as bad as anything OKC can dish out.

If I could pick between the two I'd choose Tulsa. of course, driving to all of the OU games every year would succ.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Tulsa is by far the "prettier" city and I always enjoy my time there, however the traffic jams on 71st street are 2x as bad as anything OKC can dish out.

Fixed.


Anyway I'd like to add to this.

Tulsa is easier to get around. OKC is too spread out.
Tulsa's roads though are crammed far too small for the traffic. OKC's roads are clear and easier to get around on.
OKC has better water parks and amusment parks. Tulsa has Big Splash and Bells was torn down.
OKC has a better zoo than Tulsa.
OKC has a better museum in the Omniplex. However Tulsa has the Gilcrease and Philbrook museums which are not bad at all.
OKC has a better developed and known Brick Town. Tusla has an underdeveloped River Walk and sevearl areas around TU.
OKC has more and better malls. Tulsa has Woodland and that's all and it's starting to go downhill.
Tulsa is closer to better known and developed lakes.

[Boomer.....]

The only people I have ever known that thought Tulsa was better than OKC are the people that lived in Tulsa.

Not true. I know many people who live in Norman and like Tulsa better than OKC. I used to live in the OKC area and now live in Tulsa. I find Tulsa to be a much nicer and attractive place to live. The only thing OKC has going for it is Bricktown/Ford Center.

[CORNholio]

I definitely think that Tulsa has a lot going for it and the NBA coming to OKC doesn't mean crap to most people. As a matter of fact, I lived within 30 minutes of seeing the NBA play every night for ten years and I went to see them play a total of ZERO times. My neighbors who had lived there are of there lives combined went to a total of five game EVER between them and we were all huge sports fans.

I see the NBA being like the OU basketball team in a few years as far as attendance and support goes....

Tulsa is by far the "prettier" city and I always enjoy my time there, however the traffic jams in the main shopping and eatery areas is 2x as bad as anything OKC can dish out.

If I could pick between the two I'd choose Tulsa. of course, driving to all of the OU games every year would succ.


Maybe I am blind but I just don't see it. Neither OKC nor Tulsa have much going aesthetically. It's Oklahoma not Hawaii. All those dead trees look pretty bad in the winter with no snow to cover them up.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Maybe I am blind but I just don't see it. Neither OKC nor Tulsa have much going aesthetically. It's Oklahoma not Hawaii. All those dead trees look pretty bad in the winter with no snow to cover them up.

Yeah, when I hear people say that Tulsa is prettier than OKC, I start thinking along the lines of '93's 'cripple fight' post. Neither city is ever going to compare aesthetically to cities in the Rockies or on either coast or even to inland places like Minneapolis or Atlanta.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Neither city is ever going to compare aesthetically to cities in the Rockies or on either coast or even to inland places like Minneapolis or Atlanta.

Or Pittsburgh (http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/travel/06hours.html?em&ex=1215489600&en=846d478dba935865&ei=5087%0A), apparently. Never been there... maybe I'll check it out sometime.

[BigRedJed]

Pittsburgh is really well-known in downtown redevlopment circles. About 10 years ago I was supposed to attend a National Town Meeting on Main Street (a training and conference put on by the National Trust for Historic Preservation and the National Main Street Center) there, and at the last minute wasn't able to make it.

I had looked into the place really closely during the trip planning, and was shocked at the progress they have apparently made from burnt-out industrial town to reborn, vibrant community.

Cities don't get to host that conference unless they have done something really special with their downtown/urban areas.

I'm still hoping to get there soon.

[Okla-homey]

Tulsa=Dallas. OKC=Houston

There. can we stop now?;)

[JohnnyMack]

OKC has a better museum in the Omniplex. However Tulsa has the Gilcrease and Philbrook museums which are not bad at all.



You're either 10 years old or seriously delusional.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Tulsa=Dallas. OKC=Houston

There. can we stop now?;)

OKC doesn't smell nearly as bad as Houston does.

[r5TPsooner]

Bricktown is nothing special IMHO, but at least the city is trying. I was down there yesterday to have lunch with the family and while there are some nice places in Bricktown, in all it still looks like a dump that someone abandoned years ago, and still has a long ways to go before I'd consider OKC a major city or completely renovated.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

A 'dump'?

Wow.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Houston is an el Estinko city, but close to the ocean. Famous bumper sticker: "There's nothin' going on in Houston...so, I'm goin' to Seguin!"

[BigRedJed]

Actually, while I'm giving all kinds of props to Tulsa for having been more culturally refined and interesting than OKC for much of its history (and am a huge fan of the Philbrook, especially, and also of the Gilcrease), I take exception to people labelling OKC as some sort of cultural wasteland, at least these days. That has to be coming from people who aren't very familiar with the facilities and arts community that we have.

The Oklahoma City metro includes more museums accredited by the American Association of Museums than any city in the U.S., per capita. The museums I'm talking about are cream-of-the-crop facilities, not roadside-attraction variety, or even middle-of-the-road hall of fame type places. Divergence from the latter is why the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum (http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/) changed its name a few years ago, acknowledging that it has become a world-class repository of western art and cultural records. The museum has spent more than $30 million dollars on renovations in the past decade or so.

The Oklahoma City Museum of Art (http://www.okcmoa.com/) boasts the most comprehensive collection of Chihuly glass in the world, and its collection is getting stronger all of the time, as it works to build one worthy of the $40 million building it moved into around five or six years ago. They have recently acquired a number of significant works including pieces by Monet, Renoir and Cassatt to go along with a previously strong collection of modern art. They have had some incredible traveling exhibitions since opening, including the current Roman Art from the Louvre exhibit. The museum also has one of the top art-house theater programs in this part of the country, with regular art, foreign and classic films shown in the auditorium that once housed the beautiful WPA-era Centre Theater.

The Oklahoma City National Memorial (http://www.oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org/) has an incredible museum, something many people and even visitors to the memorial itself often aren't aware of. AAM accredited.

The Oklahoma History Center (http://www.okhistorycenter.org/), which Homey promotes in his signature, is an amazing, Smithsonian-affiliated museum which opened only a couple of years ago and should be required attendance for all Oklahomans.

Last year, the Oklahoma Heritage Association (http://www.oklahomaheritage.com/) opened a stunning museum in a Rand Elliott designed renovation of the beautiful Mid-Continent Life Building in Heritage Hills. Like the Oklahoma History Center, it tells the story of Oklahoma, but focuses more on the people than the places and objects.

The Myriad Botanical Gardens (http://www.myriadgardens.com) features an incredible orchid collections, among other things, in its Crystal Bridge Conservatory. The Oklahoma City Zoo (http://www.okczoo.com), recently named by Child magazine as the #3 zoo in America for children, benefits from a dedicated 1/8 cent sales tax and regularly rolls out state-of-the-art, permanent exhibits.

Science Museum Oklahoma (http://www.omniplex.org/) (formerly known as Omniplex), has been through some struggles in recent years, but seems to have righted the ship and is working on updating what is still an extremely interesting and educational hands-on science museum. Despite being a bit long in the tooth, they have still in recent years hosted some incredible exhibits like the Titanic exhibit, the Liberty Bell 7 space exhibit and the recent human body exhibit.

If you include Norman in the metro (and I would certainly include the fabulous Jenks Aquarium in Tulsa's stable of museums) you have to count the world-class Sam Noble Museum of Natural History (http://www.snomnh.ou.edu/) and Fred Jones Jr. Museum (http://www.ou.edu/fjjma/) of Art on the OU campus. SNMONH has become one of the top natural history museums in the country since re-opening in its new building in 2000, and the FJJMA also has newly-expanded, architecturally-significant faclities which in part house the Weitzenhoffer Collection, the largest gift of French Impressionist art ever given to a public university.

Add to this a wide array of other attractions, combined with an outstanding philharmonic (http://www.okcphilharmonic.org/), well-known and received ballet (http://www.balletoklahoma.com/), Lyric Theater (http://www.lyrictheatreokc.com), regular Broadway-based shows (OKC and Tulsa share the same promoter, Celebrity Attractions (http://www.celebrityattractions.com/)). All of these, and others, are tenants of the Civic Center Music Hall (http://www.okcciviccenter.org), which benefitted from a $50+ million MAPS-funded makeover that made it the acoustically top-rated facility in the U.S., prior to the construction of the $400 million Bass hall in Fort Worth.

Oklahoma City also hosts one of the fastest-growing film festivals in the U.S., the Dead Center Festival (http://www.deadcenterfilm.org/), and finally has a burgeoning music scene. Although OKC may never surpass Tulsa's number of great, medium-sized venue live shows (due in large part to the longevity of Cain's ballroom, which has to be one of the top live music venues of its kind -- or maybe any kind -- in America), the local musicians being turned out here have become a special breed of do-it-yourselfers that are now getting tons of notice in the industry.

OKC also has the Ford Center to thank for all kinds of top-notch arena shows since it opened in the early part of the decade.

I won't get into the visual arts and architecture communities now blossoming here, but the expansion and growing sophistication in those areas is also amazing to watch.

I know it's yet another long post from me, but the idea that OKC is somehow without culture is only accepted by people who don't know better or who want to believe it to be the case. I'm certainly not suggesting we are some sort of tier-one city for the arts, but on a very regular basis I talk to visitors to this city from other cities around the U.S. and around the world (major, beautiful, culturally mature cities), who are frankly stunned at what OKC has to offer.

[Harry Beanbag]

Bricktown is nothing special IMHO, but at least the city is trying. I was down there yesterday to have lunch with the family and while there are some nice places in Bricktown, in all it still looks like a dump that someone abandoned years ago, and still has a long ways to go before I'd consider OKC a major city or completely renovated.


You would have loved it 20 years ago then, you know when it actually was a dump and had been abandoned years ago.

[PhilTLL]

I see the NBA being like the OU basketball team in a few years as far as attendance and support goes....


AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry, couldn't control it...

[silverwheels]

Bricktown a dump? Okay, you can stop posting now.

[sooneron]

Yeah isn't that whole county like one of the richest counties in the country?

nm, Jed beat me to it

I don't really get the okc vs tulsey thing either, but a lot of it has come about from the old cash snobbery that tulsey permeated the state with when it was hot. Jed got it pretty right, tulsa= former hot chick cheerleader from HS that gained about 25 lbs and still hasn't gotten over herself.

[birddog]

http://newsok.com/article/3262499?topten_check=yes

if you're into bestiality, t-town is your place...

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

Tulsa=Dallas. OKC=Houston

There. can we stop now?;)

Ha, there is a new fight waiting to happen. I lived in OKC and Houston and the same fight goes on between the two Texas cities.

That being said, OKC>Tulsa and Houston>Dallass...

Dallass=the fake Texas.

[mdklatt]

Tulsa=Dallas. OKC=Houston


Since Tulsa and Houston both have secondcityitis aka little brother syndrome, you've got that reversed. It's probably not as pronounced in Houston as when I lived there, but it obviously is in Tulsa.

I never hear anybody from the OKC area bring up the OKC/Tulsa debate, except in response to people from Tulsa. When you meet somebody from Tulsa, the "hills and trees" and QT crap starts up within 5 minutes. We get it already. It's like talking to an Apple fanatic. Or an oSu fan.

[mdklatt]

Edmond>Any other rich suberb in any city

Edmond is a cheap Plano knockoff, not that Plano is anything to aspire to.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

Since Tulsa and Houston both have secondcityitis aka little brother syndrome, you've got that reversed. It's probably not as pronounced in Houston as when I lived there, but it obviously is in Tulsa.

I never hear anybody from the OKC area bring up the OKC/Tulsa debate, except in response to people from Tulsa. When you meet somebody from Tulsa, the "hills and trees" and QT crap starts up within 5 minutes. We get it already. It's like talking to an Apple fanatic. Or an oSu fan.


I don't think Houston has little brother syndrome by any stretch. I think it is big enough that it doesn't feel the need to compete with Dallas. I think most of the hate for Dallas stems with the way people act up there, not that Dallas or Houston is better than the other. Besides, it is hard to have little brother syndrome when Houston is bigger than Dallas. Also, there is so much to do in either place, I think it sustains itself for both places.

[Flagstaffsooner]

I don't think Houston has little brother syndrome by any stretch. I think it is big enough that it doesn't feel the need to compete with Dallas. I think most of the hate for Dallas stems with the way people act up there, not that Dallas or Houston is better than the other. Besides, it is hard to have little brother syndrome when Houston is bigger than Dallas. Also, there is so much to do in either place, I think it sustains itself for both places.Don't even bring Houston into this argument. That is the dirtiest smelliest place on Earth. Dallas aint much better.

[mdklatt]

I don't think Houston has little brother syndrome by any stretch.

It did when I lived there. The Houston Chronicle was always printing stuff like "The Top 10 Reasons Houston is Better Than Dallas". I've never seen anything like that in the Dallas Morning News.



Besides, it is hard to have little brother syndrome when Houston is bigger than Dallas.

That just made it even worse. The entire city seethed that Dallas had more national and international attention even though Houston was actually bigger. Like I said, I'm sure that's changed a lot in the past 16-17 years.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

It did when I lived there. The Houston Chronicle was always printing stuff like "The Top 10 Reasons Houston is Better Than Dallas". I've never seen anything like that in the Dallas Morning News.



That just made it even worse. The entire city seethed that Dallas had more national and international attention even though Houston was actually bigger. Like I said, I'm sure that's changed a lot in the past 16-17 years.

I haven't seen that in the three years I have been here, so that might have changed. It seems like the time frame you are talking about is around the oil bust maybe? I could see that happening. Both are pretty individual now though, I don't see a lot of that going on at all...except for maybe Cowboys-Texans talk.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

Don't even bring Houston into this argument. That is the dirtiest smelliest place on Earth. Dallas aint much better.

I don't know, I have been to worse...New Orleans? Houston is very clean IMO. Where at in Houston were you? I have never smelt anything here either.

[soonerboomer93]

Hmm, I thought Houston was like the 4th largest city/metro area in the US?

I've never really seen any Dallas little brother syndrome from the people i know here.

[r5TPsooner]

Don't even bring Houston into this argument. That is the dirtiest smelliest place on Earth. Dallas aint much better.

I felt the same way. Traffic is bad, air quality is even worse, and some places are so gang infested that you wouldn't want to be caught dead in them at any time of the day.

It also smells like a bigger version of Wichita.

[mdklatt]

It seems like the time frame you are talking about is around the oil bust maybe?

No, it was after that. Houston seemed pretty diversified when we were there, but I think the national impression of it was still as a provincial oil town.

[mdklatt]

I have never smelt anything here either.

Go to the Pasadena area. Or Brazosport, where the air has a metallic taste.

[BigRedJed]

I'd think a better comparison, as long as you are staying in Texas, is between Dallas and Austin, perhaps 30 years ago for both. Oklahoma City being the Dallas analog and Tulsa being Austin. I don't think either one suffers for the other one booming, BTW.

But, I think (and hope) OKC is on a path now that ends up somewhere BETWEEN Dallas and Austin, culturally. I hope we don't become the bland, conspicuous-consumption, lots-to-do-but-not-much-of-a-soul place that Dallas is. Justbeing a BIG city isn't what Tulsa or OKC should strive for, it's being a GREAT city that should be the goal.

And we can talk all we want to now about whether a city like OKC is a great city or not, but we ultimately aren't the ones who are going to be qualified to make that call. That qualification will belong to the people a couple of decades down the road. OKC is in its biggest transformation since the land run, after 30 years of slumber. Tulsa is hopefully about to wake from the same type of slumber, and both cities will ultimately be judged for what happens over the next couple of decades.

[r5TPsooner]

I'd think a better comparison, as long as you are staying in Texas, is between Dallas and Austin, perhaps 30 years ago for both. Oklahoma City being the Dallas analog and Tulsa being Austin. I don't think either one suffers for the other one booming, BTW.

But, I think (and hope) OKC is on a path now that ends up somewhere BETWEEN Dallas and Austin, culturally. I hope we don't become the bland, conspicuous-consumption, lots-to-do-but-not-much-of-a-soul place that Dallas is. JUST being a big city isn't what Tulsa or OKC should strive for, it's being a GREAT city that should be the goal.

And we can talk all we want to know about whether a city like OKC is a great city or not, but we ultimately aren't the ones who are going to be qualified to make that call. That qualification will belong to the people a couple of decades down the road. OKC is in its biggest transformation since the land run, after 30 years of slumber. Tulsa is hopefully about to wake from the same type of slumber, and both cities will ultimately be judged for what happens over the next couple of decades.

I'm with you Jed, I hope that the downtown OKC area really becomes a player someday and not just Bricktown but that whole area. Once you get on either side of Bricktown, OKC looks pretty broken down and abandoned. Hopefully city leaders have seen this and will at least clean or demolish some of those old buildings up. Getting a few more big companies would't hurt economic growth either.

[soonerboomer93]

I live in the Woodlands
no smell, nothing here except too many yuppies/soccer moms whatever they are.

Friend lives downtown, redid units, Very nice there too.

[Flagstaffsooner]

I don't know, I have been to worse...New Orleans? Houston is very clean IMO. Where at in Houston were you? I have never smelt anything here either.Baytown. Have you ever been in downtown Houston?

No smell, jeez and clean...where did you grow up?.. in a cat box? And bugs...roaches that you can put saddles on.

[JohnnyMack]

I'd think a better comparison, as long as you are staying in Texas, is between Dallas and Austin, perhaps 30 years ago for both. Oklahoma City being the Dallas analog and Tulsa being Austin. I don't think either one suffers for the other one booming, BTW.

But, I think (and hope) OKC is on a path now that ends up somewhere BETWEEN Dallas and Austin, culturally. I hope we don't become the bland, conspicuous-consumption, lots-to-do-but-not-much-of-a-soul place that Dallas is. Justbeing a BIG city isn't what Tulsa or OKC should strive for, it's being a GREAT city that should be the goal.

And we can talk all we want to now about whether a city like OKC is a great city or not, but we ultimately aren't the ones who are going to be qualified to make that call. That qualification will belong to the people a couple of decades down the road. OKC is in its biggest transformation since the land run, after 30 years of slumber. Tulsa is hopefully about to wake from the same type of slumber, and both cities will ultimately be judged for what happens over the next couple of decades.

That's a question I've actually wondered about Jed. Does OKC have a soul? When the oil goes bust again, can it stand on its own 2 feet? Tulsa acts like a woman whose husband left her 30 years again that never got over it. She just sits and stews. OKC on the other hand, went on eharmony.com. :D

[soonerboomer93]

Go to the Pasadena area. Or Brazosport, where the air has a metallic taste.

oh, so you mean there's strange smells by the refineries :rolleyes:

holy bat **** man


Weather's been beautiful, blue skies over Houston when I drove in.

I know when and where to drive, traffics rarely an issue for me.

You want to see polluted, try the big cities in asia.

[mdklatt]

oh, so you mean there's strange smells by the refineries :rolleyes:


Boomer_Sooner_sax said he didn't smell anything. I told him where it smelled. And yes, refineries and chemical plants emit all sorts of wonderful odors. And there are a lot of them in the Houston area.

[soonerboomer93]

heh, alot would be an understatement.

There's a reason the refineries are built in a cluster (apart from logistics for inbound/outbound shipments)

most of the refineries are only in a couple communiteis near the coast, or the major bayou's (along I-10, and some stuff between H-Town and Galveston on I-45).


Houston's also a swamp so that doesn't help certain area's of the town.

Really though, after the last bad floods through downtown, they've been cleaning it up.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Tulsa acts like a woman whose husband left her 30 years again that never got over it. She just sits and stews. OKC on the other hand, went on eharmony.com. :D

Spek, hit the nail on the head.

[sooneron]

I live in the Woodlands


Mmmm, TPC....

To reply to klatt, why in the **** would anyone want to go to 'dena or the baytown area?
That's NOT Houston. Of course, I don't consider the Woodlands being Houston either. I'm an old schooler that grew up in the early days inside THE LOOP.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

I don't venture over much to Pasadena or Baytown. That by the way is the smell of money...lots of money at this point. I live in Pearland and actually on some mornings, I can smell the ocean. I know, it is only the gulf, but you still get that saltwater smell in the air. As for the gangs and such, I would just say that occurrs in every major city in America. Unfortunately, that is the facts of life. And downtown isn't bad at all. I have been in worse places. I have never smelt anything bad down there. The only drawback is the number of homeless under the bridges, but they are trying to revitalize the area. With the addidtion of Minute Maid Park, the Toyota Center, and several new parks, condos, office buildings, and entertainment and dining venues, downtown usually has a lot going on. I would say so more than the Galleria area some nights.

I do happen to agree with BRJ though. OKC and Tulsa are unique cities that should strive to be great, not big and battle against each other. What Oklahmoa has going against it IMHO is the fact that Oklahoma is so close to Texas. I think OKC and Tulsa should work together to work against that since they are reasonably close. I think a unified Oklahoma would be a force to mess with.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

That's a question I've actually wondered about Jed. Does OKC have a soul? When the oil goes bust again, can it stand on its own 2 feet?

This is an excellent question. It really is.

[Hamhock]

Muskogee should be a pole option.

[Okla-homey]

I do happen to agree with BRJ though. OKC and Tulsa are unique cities that should strive to be great, not big and battle against each other. What Oklahmoa has going against it IMHO is the fact that Oklahoma is so close to Texas. I think OKC and Tulsa should work together to work against that since they are reasonably close. I think a unified Oklahoma would be a force to mess with.

Here, here. I keed from time to time, but all Okies are my brothers and sisters. Red, yellow, black and white. They're all precious. We're "the people" that Ma Joad talked about. We just "keep on a-comin." Thru heat, hail, fire, ice, tornadoes, drought, flood, bombs, booms and busts. We need envy no other people and no other place on Earth. I've lived all over the Fruited Plain. This is "The Promised Land" and I'm never leaving her again voluntarily.

[r5TPsooner]

When I started this thread I just hope that no one would get banned. Not only has no one gotten baned, this thing has morphed into many sub threads. :)

[Sooner_Havok]

When I started this thread I just hope that no one would get banned. Not only has no one gotten baned, this thing has morphed into many sub threads. :)

Right, and you didn't start a pool about witch poster would be bained first either :rolleyes: :D :D :D

[tommieharris91]

When the oil goes bust again, can it stand on its own 2 feet?

Considering that I would like to find a job here in OKC soon, I wonder about this too.

[mdklatt]

I'm an old schooler that grew up in the early days inside THE LOOP along Montrose.

:eek:

[BigRedJed]

I'm not as concerned about whether OKC can stand on its own two feet after an oil bust. We are far more diversified than we were in the '80s, and, I hope, much wiser. Also, I think for the forseeable future an oil bust is unlikely. That question will probably remain hypothetical for a while, and in the mean time I hope we don't lose sight of the fact that a bust can (and probably will) happen, and plan for it.

I think the OTHER part of the question JM asked is much more difficult to answer. I've been struggling with it since he asked it. Does OKC have a soul? That's one of the things that, IMO, are critical to OKC becoming a great city.

What I fear is that OKC might turn into Dallas, which pardon me for saying, is a big, flashy pile of crap. Don't get me wrong; there is TONS to do in Dallas. It is a thriving, successful metropolitan area. But there's just not very much in the way of intangible specialness (is that a word?) in Dallas. It's mostly just an "...er" city. Bigger. Shinier. Wealthier. To me, conspicous consumption does not equal greatness.

I think that most of OKC's "soul" if it has one, is tied up in its people (of course Tulsa shares a lot of these qualities). Friendly. Tough. Determined. Giving.

But if you want to talk about the places in Oklahoma City that will ultimately make it a great city to live in (and "place" or a "sense of place" are some of the things I find most important in life), I think OKC's soul won't be located downtown. I think downtown will be a part of it, but I think its "soul" will spread from downtown, through Midtown, into the near northwest neighborhoods, and up Western.

People from Tulsa who rightfully brag about Peoria probably oftentimes have no awareness of Western Avenue, which has much the same vibe and success. However, much as Peoria and Cherry Street were once all that Tulsa had going for it and thus became what Tulsa was known for, Bricktown was for a while the only district in OKC that was going crazy commercially. I think most people in Tulsa think of just Bricktown when they think of OKC, and that's unfortunate.

Paseo, Midtown, Automobile Alley, Western Avenue, all are on the cusp of greatness right now, and are more uniquely Oklahoma City. I think people who want to pass judgement on OKC owe it to the city and to themselves to experience those places, instead of limiting themselves to the industrial appearance of OKC on its outskirts, seen when driving through town, or limiting themselves to an afternoon/evening in Bricktown.

When experiencing this, they might also be shocked at some of the tree-lined, historic neighborhoods they might pass through, or some of the architectural gems they might pass by or be invited into. OKC is NOT a culturally devoid truckstop, and those who think it is either don't know the truth, or don't CARE to know the truth.

[OUDoc]

Throw in a "You can't handle the truth!"


;)

[mdklatt]

But there's just not very much in the way of intangible specialness (is that a word?) in Dallas.

A few weeks ago I was discussing with a friend how different cities have a different "vibe". You're right, Dallas doesn't really have it's own vibe. It's not a destination city unless "greatest concentration of Home Depots in the US" counts as a tourist attraction. It's a convention city, absolutely. And obviously the f'in hillbillies like go to down there for the weekend. But unless you're a JFK fanatic, you can't do anything in Dallas that you can't do in any other large city.

Fort Worth is the better half of the Metroplex, IMO.

[yermom]

what the eff is in Ft. Worth?

Dallas > Ft. Worth

;)

[Boarder]

Bricktown is nothing special IMHO, but at least the city is trying. I was down there yesterday to have lunch with the family and while there are some nice places in Bricktown, in all it still looks like a dump that someone abandoned years ago, and still has a long ways to go before I'd consider OKC a major city or completely renovated.
Was the weather nice that day? Sometimes things don't look as great with a bunch of thunder around.

[JohnnyMack]

Fort Worth is the better half of the Metroplex, IMO.

Werd. My mom lives in Mansfield and we always end up Ft. Worth. I could live in Ft. Worth, Dallas can suck me.

[BigRedJed]

Was the weather nice that day? Sometimes things don't look as great with a bunch of thunder around.
That's what people will be saying at games if they name the team that. At least until they have a good draft or two. Or four.

[BigRedJed]

Fort Worth has definitely taken the "cool city" banner from Dallas in the past decade. Even a lot of folks in Dallas will tell you that, and that's saying something.

[Boarder]

I meant that I've been to Bricktown when it was storming and it was scary. But it's nice when it's sunshiny.

[OUDoc]

I meant that I've been to Bricktown when it was storming and it was scary. But it's nice when it's sunshiny.

http://img.timeinc.net/recipes/i/may1/chicken-ck-635581-x.jpg

[mdklatt]

what the eff is in Ft. Worth?

Dallas > Ft. Worth

;)


What the eff is in Dallas that isn't in Fort Worth?

Fort Worth/Tarrant County has more going on downtown, better cultural stuff, a much better zoo, the Stockyards and Billy Bobs, traffic that doesn't suck quite so bad, a city government that's not dysfunctional, Six Flags, the Rangers, the Cowboys as of 2009, beer barns, and no Plano.

EDIT: And NASCAR.

[BigRedJed]

http://img.timeinc.net/recipes/i/may1/chicken-ck-635581-x.jpg
Holy crap. That looks awesome. Even the PBR looks awesome. Yes, occasionally I drink a PBR, the official beer of American scooting. Suck it, PPL.

[Boarder]

So Fort Worth claimed Arlington?

[mdklatt]

So Fort Worth claimed Arlington?

Yes. If it's west of 360, it's Fort Worth's.

[mdklatt]

Yes. If it's west of 360, it's Fort Worth's.

Dallas can have Lone Star Park (and the Ripley's wax museum) in Grand Prairie, and all the new crap way out in Frisco, and Fort Worth is still better. Tarrant County is where it's at.

[bluedogok]

I get tired of the city vs. city crap, it is even worse on development/city sites. OKC-Tulsa is nothing compared to the crap that comes from all the Texas city "fueds" which are just tiresome. There are constantly ones down here, Fort Worth vs. Dallas, Houston vs. Dallas, San Antonio vs. Austin, well San Antonio against everyone inside or outside of Texas.

As far as not seeing that Houstonians have a chip on their shoulders about Dallas, it seems like you just haven't been around many life long Houstonians, at least not the ones that I have been around. My former boss was one, they want to see Dallas fail at anything, there is no "Texas pride" for them in anything involving Dallas, it just isn't the same feeling towards San Antonio, Austin or even Fort Worth. I never got the same vibe from people in Dallas, maybe that was because there seems to be very few native Dallasites, most of the people that I knew in Dallas weren't even Texans. Most of the ones that I knew were from back east, a few were small town Texas, Oklahoma or Louisiana. My two years there I got the feeling that Dallas had the attitude of a New Yorker who broke down in Dallas on the way to LA and stayed there, so they are trying to make Dallas into their view of LA.

Houston is a Love It/Hate It kind of place, there doesn't seem to be much in between. I never had a desire to live there but it does have a lot to offer, I could maybe do some place like Kemah (where my former boss lives now) since being near the coast would be nice. I have learned to appreciate Houston, not that I much care to live there (or Dallas again) but it is a nice place to visit. We spent the weekend in Houston two weekends ago for the Red Sox-Astros game. It was my first time staying in Houston, all of my trips prior had been day trips to job sites (warehouse projects at Beltway & Antoine and one in Pasadena) or meetings (Galleria area) and I was very disappointed in downtown. We stayed at The Magnolia Hotel, which was nice but there was very little "life" around Minute Maid Park even though it was a very full house with a bunch of people staying downtown. I realize that area of downtown hasn't come back yet but you would think with the years that the ballpark has been there and the convention center close by there would be more in the immediate area. It just seems to be waiting for a catalyst to get going in that part of downtown.

[OUDoc]

I never noticed any competition between OKC and Tulsa until I started posting here. It never occurred to me that either city paid much attention to the other one. I find it kinda funny. I wonder if Duncan and Marlow try to bitch-slap each other too?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I never noticed any competition between OKC and Tulsa until I started posting here. It never occurred to me that either city paid much attention to the other one. I find it kinda funny. I wonder if Duncan and Marlow try to bitch-slap each other too?I know that Coweta has it in for Gotey Bow!

[BigRedJed]

Doc, you haven't been aware of the competition because you live in OKC.

[BigRedJed]

What I mean is the only place I ever hear of a "rivalry" is from Tulsa people, or in situations where Tulsa people and OKC people interact, like this one. I have never had a conversation with an OKC person that was bedowngrading Tulsa. Never.

On the flip side, I have literally overheard conversations in restaurants and elsewhere in T-town where people were dogging out OKC.

[My Opinion Matters]

What I mean is the only place I ever hear of a "rivalry" is from Tulsa people, or in situations where Tulsa people and OKC people interact, like this one. I have never had a conversation with an OKC person that was bedowngrading Tulsa. Never.

On the flip side, I have literally overheard conversations in restaurants and elsewhere in T-town where people were dogging out OKC.




That's not true! [hairGel]

[JohnnyMack]

What I mean is the only place I ever hear of a "rivalry" is from Tulsa people, or in situations where Tulsa people and OKC people interact, like this one. I have never had a conversation with an OKC person that was bedowngrading Tulsa. Never.

On the flip side, I have literally overheard conversations in restaurants and elsewhere in T-town where people were dogging out OKC.

Not to deflate your ego or anything, but I don't give a wet fart about what OKC or any other city does. My hills and trees jokes are all in good fun. Sometimes your hard on for OKC is too much.

[BudSooner]

You're either 10 years old or seriously delusional.
Werd, the Omnimart ain't where it's at.


That's a question I've actually wondered about Jed. Does OKC have a soul? When the oil goes bust again, can it stand on its own 2 feet? Tulsa acts like a woman whose husband left her 30 years again that never got over it. She just sits and stews. OKC on the other hand, went on eharmony.com. :D
THAT is some of the funniest **** i've heard today.


I never noticed any competition between OKC and Tulsa until I started posting here. It never occurred to me that either city paid much attention to the other one. I find it kinda funny. I wonder if Duncan and Marlow try to bitch-slap each other too?
Word is that Porum and Calvin are at each others throats as well... *sigh*

[Viking Kitten]

Do they not sell Midol in Tulsa?

[BigRedJed]

Not to deflate your ego or anything, but I don't give a wet fart about what OKC or any other city does. My hills and trees jokes are all in good fun. Sometimes your hard on for OKC is too much.
That post has nothing to do with my "hard on for OKC," just giving you my personal experiences. I have overheard complete strangers in Tulsa on more than one occasion dogging OKC. I have had multiple conversations with people from Tulsa who feel compelled to point out OKC's inadequacies. I have never personally been involved in a or overheard a conversation with exclusively OKC folks sitting around and dogging Tulsa.

How is that having a hard on for OKC? According to those experiences, you'd have to assume Tulsa is the cooler city, or OKC people would have reasons to dog it.

Wouldn't you?

[BigRedJed]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifWhich Is The Better City? (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2332678#post2332678) 7/9/2008 11:16 AM xxxx ...You're right, I rarely hear anyone from OKC even mention Tulsa, and it's never in a bad light when they do.

I guess I'm not the only one who hasn't experienced much OKC venom for Tulsa.

[frankensooner]

I am a OKC-Metro person. I grew up in Muskogee and never ever ever liked Tulsa. ever. The folks in OKC are a lot nicer and much more down-to-earth. Even when I first moved here in '88 after finishing up at OU, I knew I had found the perfect place for me. I am happy the turn OKC is taking, I just hope we don't end up another traffic jammed metro like Dallas or Houston. OKC is about perfect to me, size-wise, athought it could grow a bit more. I hope the growth ends up being downtown where everyone could walk to work, and there is a lot of growth in downtown housing. Okay. I'm done.

[jr4ou]

I grew up in Muskogee but never saw this frankensooner dude. He must've lived on the rough side of town. I traveled to Tulsa quite often and did enjoy it, but I like living in the OKC. NBA.