$146 bbl

[Okla-homey]

today.

I say $150 by July 15.

[OKLA21FAN]

this isn't an auction Homey!


(or is it?)

[tommieharris91]

I say $150 by close today.

Fixed.

[OUDoc]

:mad:

[soonermix]

so when does it hit $200?

[OUDoc]

so when does it hit $200?
If it ever hits $200, I predict a huge rise in assault rifle sales.

[OklahomaTuba]

This is getting insane.

The Dollar has got to start getting stronger soon.

[OklahomaTuba]

so when does it hit $200?

If Israel takes a trip to Iran anytime soon, I believe it will be well above $200 b/d.

Also, Hurricane season is coming. That's always a worry.

[StoopTroup]

We need more nuclear vessels.

[tommieharris91]

This is getting insane.

The Dollar has got to start getting stronger soon.

The ECB raised their interest rates by .25% (to 4.25%) today, but they were vague in mentioning whether they will keep raising rates or start slashing them in the near future. The only country with desirable GDP growth lately is Germany, and French and Spanish leaders are petitioning Trichet to lower interest rates in the euro zone to spur growth.

Also, it is fairly likely that the Fed will raise the federal funds rate at their next meeting.

I'll also add this: http://www.cnbc.com/id/25509433

[Sooner98]

Also, Hurricane season is coming. That's always a worry.

Looks like there's already a storm forming off the coast of Africa. Could be a long hurricane season.

[Widescreen]

Why not just jack the price up to $1000/bbl? This is just stupid.

[OUDoc]

Why not just jack the price up to $1000/bbl? This is just stupid.
So are you speculating that? 'cuz that makes it true, you know.

[Blue]

If the fed raises rates they'll cause a recession.

[Chuck Bao]

I think that is a pretty clear indication of the epic FAIL of our resident oil people. You are not working hard enough.

As if it really needs to be said: get busy people and drill more wells in Oklahoma.

[yermom]

If it ever hits $200, I predict a huge rise in assault rifle sales.

and bikes

i've easily used under a gallon of gas this week :D

[BigRedJed]

C'mon, $200/barrel!

Sorry, all of you folks who don't live in these parts.

[def_lazer_fc]

This is getting insane.

The Dollar has got to start getting stronger soon.

i bought my dollars a bowflex, but to this day....nothing.

[BigRedJed]

Also, sorry to those of you who chose to live unsustainable, suburban and exurban lifestyles. See you at an NBA game! If you can afford to go to one, that is...

[BigRedJed]

Another 50 dollars a barrel and Mick might start lusting after major league baseball.

[Blue]

As a contractor, petroleum based shingles are kickin my ***, which means higher estimates, which means "No thanks, I'll put a bucket where the roof drips and buy food and gas.", which means less moolah for this suburbanite. The insurance side sure as hell aint keeping up with the rising prices either. What a surprise.

If it keeps up, I'm cashing out and renting a hut in Costa Rica. Rant over.

[Chuck Bao]

Last week, I got to entertain a Senator from Trinidad and Tobago. He said that almost 50% of their economy is now oil and gas. Nice beaches, tropical climate and beautiful people. I could live with that.

[Harry Beanbag]

Also, sorry to those of you who chose to live unsustainable, suburban and exurban lifestyles. See you at an NBA game! If you can afford to go to one, that is...


You rule.

[BigRedJed]

I know! Thanks for noticing, though.

[BigRedJed]

But seriously, I'm only trying to make a couple of points, obviously with a dash of sarcasm.

There is a certain irony that exists when Oklahomans (those who LIVE in Oklahoma) complain about the price of oil. Especially Oklahomans who live in Oklahoma City or Tulsa.
For all of the gnashing of teeth that goes on when gas goes up a few cents (I could go find threads on this very board where people were moaning about $2/gallon gasoline is if it meant the end of the world as they know it), and for as much as people talk about alternative fuels and more economical cars, NOBODY discusses lifestyle change. It would be good for the cities (more sustainable from a tax/infrastructure/education standpoint), good for the economy, good for the planet (less carbon emission, for those that keep score on that kind of thing), and good for the people themselves (surprisingly enjoyable lifestyle, less windshield time means more spare/family time plus less stress), and more opportunities to WALK (excercise). Maybe at $200/bbl people will start talking about stuff like this.

[KC//CRIMSON]

We need to kill more whales!

[Harry Beanbag]

But seriously, I'm only trying to make a couple of points, obviously with a dash of sarcasm.

There is a certain irony that exists when Oklahomans (those who LIVE in Oklahoma) complain about the price of oil. Especially Oklahomans who live in Oklahoma City or Tulsa.
For all of the gnashing of teeth that goes on when gas goes up a few cents (I could go find threads on this very board where people were moaning about $2/gallon gasoline is if it meant the end of the world as they know it), and for as much as people talk about alternative fuels and more economical cars, NOBODY discusses lifestyle change. It would be good for the cities (more sustainable from a tax/infrastructure/education standpoint), good for the economy, good for the planet (less carbon emission, for those that keep score on that kind of thing), and good for the people themselves (surprisingly enjoyable lifestyle, less windshield time means more spare/family time plus less stress), and more opportunities to WALK (excercise). Maybe at $200/bbl people will start talking about stuff like this.


Obviously, we should raze all our cities and start over by building giant Soviet style apartment complexes so nobody would ever have to drive again. One person's Utopia is another's oppressive commune.

[Jerk]

If the oil business wasn't booming, OKC, Tulsa, Houston, et al, would be sucking *** like the east and west coasts.

It's a blessing in disguise! By a Scooter if you can't afford to fill up your Tahoe, you cheap ungrateful mother****rs!

:wink:

[OUDoc]

C'mon, $200/barrel!

Sorry, all of you folks who don't live in these parts.

I live here. It doesn't do **** for me.

[shaun4411]

today.

I say $150 by July 15.

its thinking like that which causes speculators to up the price. its the polar opposite of a stock market crash where fears cause people to sell and the price to drop. now, people are buying and causing it to rise. why cant the media report about gas being bad, just for a day to scare the stupid sheep into not buying gas for a day?

[tommieharris91]

The few people that I've talked to in the oil industry don't like it being as high as it is. They don't want high prices destroying oil demand, and those prices currently are.

[tommieharris91]

its thinking like that which causes speculators to up the price. its the polar opposite of a stock market crash where fears cause people to sell and the price to drop. now, people are buying and causing it to rise. why cant the media report about gas being bad, just for a day to scare the stupid sheep into not buying gas for a day?

It doesn't really matter which day you buy gas, you still need gas to power your car. Not buying gas for a single day won't work. Reporting about the polluting effects so that people will either drive more fuel-efficient cars or simply drive less will.

Why is it not? Because more people in China and India are driving now than 5 years ago. Ohh, that and investment bankers took notice and want some oil as an asset. So basically whenever oil falls, it will be rapid, but not as large of a fall as some people think.

[Blue]

its thinking like that which causes speculators to up the price. its the polar opposite of a stock market crash where fears cause people to sell and the price to drop. now, people are buying and causing it to rise. why cant the media report about gas being bad, just for a day to scare the stupid sheep into not buying gas for a day?

I'd buy that if all this didn't just come out of the blue. It's like someone woke up oneday and said, "Lets destroy the world economy by spiking oil to the max."

If speculators could raise the price this much in this less of time, couldn't they do that with any valuable commodity and why wouldn't they?

[shaun4411]

im not sure how you can destroy demand on a commodity that we are dependent on (not just for fuel, but for so many other things. such as plastic). lots of factors come into play that cause the price to go up. a lot is india and china and other developing nations developing at a rapid rate. maybe the olympics in beijing isnt helping much. those bastards in the middle east hate us and perhaps this is the new way to get us; economic warfare.

the reason we can be gouged on oil is because we need it in our daily lives. it isnt a privelage, its a requirement. gas could be $6/gallon, and 250+million people still need to drive to work in the morning. we didnt latch on to good public transportation at the right time to make it more feasible today, or demand would go down significantly.

[BigRedJed]

If the oil business wasn't booming, OKC, Tulsa, Houston, et al, would be sucking *** like the east and west coasts.

It's a blessing in disguise! By a Scooter if you can't afford to fill up your Tahoe, you cheap ungrateful mother****rs!

:wink:
YES!!! :D

[BigRedJed]

Obviously, we should raze all our cities and start over by building giant Soviet style apartment complexes so nobody would ever have to drive again. One person's Utopia is another's oppressive commune.
That's EXACTLY what I'm suggesting. Soviet style apartment complexes. Except they look like this:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/071204/071204_walkable_hmed_730a.hmedium.jpg

And this:

http://www.ecocitycleveland.org/ecologicaldesign/whatcities/images/shaker_square_oats.jpg

And this:

http://www.greenplaybook.org/database/images/display/sb471fdb81bbd14.jpg

And this:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4114-p1080841.JPG

And this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2142/2086406963_2a053c3707.jpg

And this:

http://www.tndpartners.com/neighborhoods/trinity/trinity01-sedgefield-sm.jpg

And this:

http://www.southofboston.net/specialreports/quincyrehab/images/2-Portsmouth-gd-102803-11.jpg

And this:

http://www.countryinns.com/chi/images/hotels/MNBROOK/loc3_450.jpg

And this:

http://www.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek08/0418/0418d_portwalk1_b.jpg



ARRRGHHH!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES EVERYONE!!! IT'S A BUNCH OF COMMIE HOUSES!!!

[r5TPsooner]

so when does it hit $200?

By Labor Day?

Maybe just in time for X-MAS!

[BigRedJed]

OMFG!!! MORE COMMIE HOUSES!!!

http://loudoun.vhost.vipnet.org/business/images/MemorialDrive1.JPG

http://www.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek08/0418/0418d_portwalk2_b.jpg

http://www.kimberlyberman.com/uploads/00000017367/Abocoa.jpg

http://www.tndtownpaper.com/Volume10/ion_walkers.jpg

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2953-p1030126.jpg

http://davidchu.net/walkeastwood/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/monterey_walkablesm.jpg

http://www.cobbrealestateblog.com/images/RiverwoodCommercial1.jpg

http://www.tcbmag.com/images/industriestrends/commercialrealestate/articles/asset_upload_file158_71796.jpg

http://www.planetizen.com/files/oped/20031110-fig50.jpg

http://www.arnoldimaging.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/zone-5.thumbnail.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/1969723677_db68407651.jpg

http://downtownokc.com/Portals/0/images/SkylineSnapShotImages/SkylineContent/small%20for%20q1%20web/flatiron.jpg

[BigRedJed]

ARRRGHHH!!! THE HORROR!!! THEM DAMN REDS IS TRYIN' TA CHANGE THE WAY AH LIVE!!!

[BigRedJed]

What? Most of those places are being built by God-fearin' white Republicans?

NM.

[sooneron]

"Why are all of those idiots walking? Don't they have cars? " Okie speak.

[BigRedJed]

Psst. They're walking because they're poor. And possibly homeless. And MOST DEFINITELY they are commies. Homeless, poor, Godless pinkos.

[BigRedJed]

I live here. It doesn't do **** for me.
Seriously, Doc? Do you like most of the improvements that have taken place over the past few years in the OU athletic department (4LIFE's granpap's shafting aside)? Or even on campus in general?

What about the low unemployment around here? Can most of your patients pay their bills? In a large part of the country lots of people can't right now.

What about the fact that OKC and the State of Oklahoma aren't having to drastically slash services right now, and also aren't trying to raise your taxes to pay for massive shortfalls?

Any friends or family that, if tough times befell them, you might be called upon to help out?

Plan on going to an NBA game, when the team gets here?

Does it help you that the value of your house isn't in the toilet right now?

I'm not saying that your life is directly impacted to the extent of someone in that industry, or that of an architect, or of someone in the sales or service industry, but I don't think it's fair to say that a thriving energy sector "doesn't do ****" for you.

[GottaHavePride]

Obviously, we should raze all our cities and start over by building giant Soviet style apartment complexes so nobody would ever have to drive again. One person's Utopia is another's oppressive commune.

Heh. There's a reason mass transit works so much better in European cities than over here. A lot of those cities have had over 1,000 years to figure out where stuff should go. Over here? Not even close.

And I'm ready for high oil prices. Got my outfit and everything.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa234/baphometdiabolus/humungus2.jpg

[Blue]

I've lived in a few places that look just like that BRJ. Dunwoody, Buckhead, outside of Atlanta. That might be metro, but it looks like suburbia.

It's not everyone's cup of tea. Same eateries,same shops, same same. Just like suburbia. Sometimes the places that are the busiest and livliest can also be the coldest.

I'm just a sucker for beach livin though. Can't wait to find a good job on the "redneck riviera" and get out of Suburban Atlanta.

I don't quite know what my point was here...

[BigRedJed]

That's cool. I'm sure not saying downtown or inner-city is for everyone; it's not. Country living is awesome. I've lived in the country a lot of my life. Beach living would be great, too.

The point is, the "American dream" that has been sold to us for the past 60+ years is a lie. Specifically living and working in vastly different locations, and shopping/using services on the other side of town from both of THOSE places. The car-heavy, suburban culture is just not sustainable. It was made possible by cheap oil, which was actually not really "cheap," it was subsidized by tax dollars in a number of ways, defense and otherwise.

The car-based suburban and exurban lifestyle were sold to us post-WWII, and they have failed us. We all want to do what we want, live where we want, and for there to be no consequences. Well, guess what? NOTHING has "no consequences." We are dealing with those consequences now. I'm I'm not saying it in one of those "I hate myself because I'm an American who deserves to be bombed for my excesses" sort of ways.

I'm saying we gave too much power over our well-being and our future to people in other parts of the world who don't like us and in some cases hate us. We have become dependent on fanatics, freedom-haters and other strange bedfellows.

We should have seen it coming, but we didn't, for the most part. Americans are innately optimistic, and I think we all thought living with no consequences would last forever, and that our good would overwhelm their bad, and that our toughness and greatness would always trump evil. Well, the last parts might eventually come true, but the no consequences part will never happen. That train has left the station.

All I am saying is that finding a cheaper fossil fuel, or whatever, isn't the only answer. If a lot of Americans get tired of burning expensive gas everyday and decide to live closer to where they work, or work closer to where they live, it could solve far more problems than even a 50 or 70 MPG car could solve.

Whether that means living downtown, or telecommuting from your beach house, or finding a job in the country that you like better than your job in the city anyway, lifestyle changes are, in the long run, going to be far more effective and satisfying than getting the green light to drill ANWR.

[Blue]

Great post. Agree completely.

I'm all about blaming the previous generation. ;)

[tulsaoilerfan]

Remember when $2 a gallon seemed high?

[Blue]

It's affecting me directly on my petroleum based products used to build my jobs. Gas sucks, but it's not a big issue yet.

I just wonder when this will affect everyones job.

[GottaHavePride]

Remember when $2 a gallon seemed high?

More to the point: remember how long it took to get from "$1.25 a gallon??!?!!! Bloodsuckers!" to "$2 a gallon???!!!?? Communists!"

Compare that to how long it took to get from $2 to $4.

[OUbones]

Everything's ok everybody just keep driving your trucks.

[Curly Bill]

Everything's ok everybody just keep driving your trucks.

I plan on it, gas'll go back down...

...someday...


...maybe...

:pop:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Also, sorry to those of you who chose to live unsustainable, suburban and exurban lifestyles. My, how smart and PC!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

its thinking like that which causes speculators to up the price. its the polar opposite of a stock market crash where fears cause people to sell and the price to drop. now, people are buying and causing it to rise. why cant the media report about gas being bad, just for a day to scare the stupid sheep into not buying gas for a day?The speculators are betting that congress won't do anything to cause prices to drop, such as opening up off-limits oil reserves to drilling:mack: IMO it's not the media talking about the gas prices, as much as it is them NOT talking about the foolishness of the environmental control lobby.

[Blue]

I think it's bigger than environmentalists and speculators. Call me crazy, but if I'm right, call me an unemployed beach bum.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think it's bigger than environmentalists and speculators. Call me crazy, but if I'm right, call me an unemployed beach bum.It's a function of rising worldwide demand and political foolishness(or worse). A willingness of government to limit itself to performing the functions intended by the founders would almost immediately cause petroleum prices to drop. Alas, the controlling party seems to be of the same mindset as BRJ.

[goingoneight]

It's like this... they have the power... we need the power. Do we want the power? Yes. Do we realy need as much power as we use? No. Are they bastage oppurtunists? Prolly. Can you do anything about it either way?

Last I remembered, everytime my faucets leaked, I repaired them. When I leave for work, I don't crank up the AC for when I get home 12 hours later. Do I have to have a truck for my job? Yes. Do I need a 3/4 ton Shytvrolet with a 454 and 6" lift? Hells naw. When I am on my 'me time,' do I need to drive evrywhere? Hells naw.

1. Carpool
2. School buses... take advantage of the fact that your tax dollars offer you a huge favor.
3. Walk... you might find yourself in better shape for doing so.
4. Plan trips instead of just firing up and going... you might find that you can do five stores worth of shopping without five trips. This also helps to avoid rush hour and idle time.
5. If you work in Tulsa, why do you live in Bartlesville "just because (cheap shot and one of the higher-ups I work with)?"
6. See that Toyota Tundra with the big 350, the 4X4 and the lift kit? You don't need it living in an apartment complex by the river, working at a bank. Just sayin... don't be dumb. Wouldn't this solve all our problems?

Imagine if for one week America could do this.

[yermom]

money and high gas prices will solve these issues

when someone can make money by saving people money with mass transit it will happen

when people can't afford to drive 20 miles one way to work anymore, they won't

[Blue]

You guys aren't getting my point. Worse case scenario: Total economic collapse. It would be like dominoes falling. Your *** wouldn't be "city-livin" cause your paper money would be worth less than toilet paper. Marshall Law and govt. rationed handouts.

Cycles are all different. Whose to say this couldn't happen?

Will it? probably not. But our economy and monetary system is based on smoke and mirrors. When the gig is up, something will have to change dramatically.

Doom and gloom chicken little I know, but it is a real possibility.

[tommieharris91]

If our monetary system is based on smoke & mirrors, then everyone else's is too. The euro isn't backed by anything. The pound isn't backed by anything. And a whole buncha other countries have their money pegged to one of these three currencies.

[Harry Beanbag]

Heh. There's a reason mass transit works so much better in European cities than over here. A lot of those cities have had over 1,000 years to figure out where stuff should go. Over here? Not even close.


There are even more relevant reasons. France is quite a bit smaller than Texas. Germany is smaller than that.

I think Jed has lost his mind. Incoherent rants do nothing for his vision of the future.

[Harry Beanbag]

Seriously, Doc? Do you like most of the improvements that have taken place over the past few years in the OU athletic department (4LIFE's granpap's shafting aside)? Or even on campus in general?

What about the low unemployment around here? Can most of your patients pay their bills? In a large part of the country lots of people can't right now.

What about the fact that OKC and the State of Oklahoma aren't having to drastically slash services right now, and also aren't trying to raise your taxes to pay for massive shortfalls?

Any friends or family that, if tough times befell them, you might be called upon to help out?

Plan on going to an NBA game, when the team gets here?

Does it help you that the value of your house isn't in the toilet right now?

I'm not saying that your life is directly impacted to the extent of someone in that industry, or that of an architect, or of someone in the sales or service industry, but I don't think it's fair to say that a thriving energy sector "doesn't do ****" for you.

I guess you don't remember 1984.

[BigRedJed]

I absolutely remember 1984. That's why Oklahoma needs to continue to diversify its economy. Utilizing the wealth we gain from the rest of the country's oil habit. Are you saying we should turn our back on the cash that's now flowing, just because energy is prone to bust? I'm not. But I'm also not saying we should be spending it on gold nugget jewelry, aligator boots, Corvette Stingrays and permed curly mullets.

[r5TPsooner]

I absolutely remember 1984. That's why Oklahoma needs to continue to diversify its economy. Utilizing the wealth we gain from the rest of the country's oil habit. Are you saying we should turn our back on the cash that's now flowing, just because energy is prone to bust? I'm not. But I'm also not saying we should be spending it on gold nugget jewelry, aligator boots, Corvette Stingrays and permed curly mullets.

You can keep all of that stuff but a man needs at least one pair of alligator boots in his lifetime.

[BigRedJed]

My, how smart and PC!
Hmmm... ...smart, yes, I think so. PC? You are totally mis-applying the term. The quote you pulled was simply me saying that suburban and exurban lifestyles are unsustainable. "Sustainable" isn't a term that belongs to any political ideology, it only means that it can't continue. It's built to fail.

The suburbs ARE built to fail. That's why buildings in the 'burbs are built for 20 year lifespans. Eventually, the 'burbs become the next generation's blight, and society just moves on. Further out. Which leads to more fuel use. Which used to not be a problem.

You can try to turn this into a conservative/liberal discussion, but it's not. I'm not touting that lifestyle as some sort of ecological panacea (though some do, and it does admittedly have ecological benefits), I'm saying our country is in an economic crisis and a national security crisis because we failed to consider some of the unintended consequences that would befall us when we married ourselves to the automobile.

Am I advocating getting rid of cars? No. Am I advocating everyone drive some sort of faggy smart car? Hell no. I drive an F-150 Super Crew 4x4 Lariat. It gets around 12 MPG. I'm just saying if we put a focus on making our cities more livable and easier to get around in, if we put the places we go and the things we do in close proximity to our bodies and our homes, we can save a ****load more energy and money and taxes and military lives than everybody switching to a Prius. I am NOT Ed Begly Jr.

And, if you want to talk liberal vs. conservative, let's talk. I am someone who lives in an area which hasn't required substantial taxpayer-funded infrastructure investment in decades, other than basic maintenance. The current infrastructure has been used by generations of people, and was paid for long ago.

Are you suggesting that requiring me to spend MY tax dollars on stoplights and libraries and water service and trash service and police protection and transit and parks and schools in areas that two years ago were farmers' fields, where the owner doesn't pay for the true cost of that, but instead pays ONLY for the cost of building his house on cheap land, is somehow a conservative value? What I have just described is taxpayer subsidy of another person's chosen lifestyle. Roll that around for a while in your brain, RLIMC.

BTW, you would be shocked to know that while yes, many environmentalists are also championing sustainability for its obvious ecological benefits, many if not most of the people who are doing the developing, the planning and the heavy lifting are card-carrying Republicans. At least the ones I know.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We have oodles of oil that has been placed off-limits by govt. The govt. is driving up the cost of living, intentionally.

[BigRedJed]

I agree. But eventually, it too will run out. Oil is an UNSUSTAINABLE resource. Who knows when that will be, but it will happen one day. What then?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I agree. But eventually, it too will run out. Oil is an UNSUSTAINABLE resource. Who knows when that will be, but it will happen one day. What then?When it is perceived that we are HONESTLY short of oil, America and the world will take steps to compensate. Govt. induced shortages do nothing but inflame people.

[BigRedJed]

My biggest point, I guess, is that we should be planning ahead. Yeah, there's oil. I hear conflicting stories as to how much, or for how long it lasts. But it is finite. An unsustainable resource. What then?

We need to change our consumption patterns now, to make the supply last as long as necessary. The REAL best way to change our consumption habits is to change how far we have to travel every day. The best way to accomplish this is to make our cities fully-functioning organisms. Make them good places to live, and easy to get around in. People will move there. You won't have to force it on them.

We stick our heads in the sand, and believe that it won't be an ongoing problem, but it will be. This week it's the Arabs, next week it's environmentalists, the next week its government policy, the next it's speculators. We need to get off the teat.

All of the millions spent on building more fuel-efficient cars, or studying switchgrass, or whatever, well, that's great. What we really need to do is drive less, and it doesn't have to be especially painful. Just different.

We can continue to ignore it, and hope some new fuel technology emerges, or whatever. But we would only be repeating the mistakes of our parents and grandparents. What makes it worse for us to do it is that we have the benefit of historical perspective.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

My biggest point, I guess, is that we should be planning ahead. Yeah, there's oil. I hear conflicting stories as to how much, or for how long it lasts. But it is finite. An unsustainable resource. What then?

We need to change our consumption patterns now, to make the supply last as long as necessary. The REAL best way to change our consumption habits is to change how far we have to travel every day. The best way to accomplish this is to make our cities fully-functioning organisms. Make them good places to live, and easy to get around in. People will move there. You won't have to force it on them.

We stick our heads in the sand, and believe that it won't be an ongoing problem, but it will be. This week it's the Arabs, next week it's environmentalists, the next week its government policy, the next it's speculators. We need to get off the teat.

All of the millions spent on building more fuel-efficient cars, or studying switchgrass, or whatever, well, that's great. What we really need to do is drive less, and it doesn't have to be especially painful. Just different.

We can continue to ignore it, and hope some new fuel technology emerges, or whatever. But we would only be repeating the mistakes of our parents and grandparents. What makes it worse for us to do it is that we have the benefit of historical perspective.NECESSITY is the mother of Invention. REAL necessity-not artificial, like we have now.

[BigRedJed]

I prefer to subscribe to the Boy Scout credo: "be prepared."

[Chuck Bao]

There are even more relevant reasons. France is quite a bit smaller than Texas. Germany is smaller than that.

I think Jed has lost his mind. Incoherent rants do nothing for his vision of the future.

Texas – Total area 268,820 sq mi
France – Total area 260,558 sq mi
Germany – Total area 137,847 sq mi

Just for reference:
Oklahoma – Total area 69,898 sq mi
Thailand - Total area 198,115 sq mi

[tommieharris91]

NECESSITY is the mother of Invention. REAL necessity-not artificial, like we have now.
This type of thinking is how people and firms fall behind each other. There is a necessity for alternative thinking when it comes to energy to power transportation vehicles. BRJ's idea of moving people closer to each other is a very good idea to curb gas use.

[Harry Beanbag]

Texas – Total area 268,820 sq mi
France – Total area 260,558 sq mi
Germany – Total area 137,847 sq mi

Just for reference:
Oklahoma – Total area 69,898 sq mi
Thailand - Total area 198,115 sq mi


Yeah, that's what I said.

[Harry Beanbag]

My biggest point, I guess, is that we should be planning ahead. Yeah, there's oil. I hear conflicting stories as to how much, or for how long it lasts. But it is finite. An unsustainable resource. What then?

We need to change our consumption patterns now, to make the supply last as long as necessary. The REAL best way to change our consumption habits is to change how far we have to travel every day. The best way to accomplish this is to make our cities fully-functioning organisms. Make them good places to live, and easy to get around in. People will move there. You won't have to force it on them.

We stick our heads in the sand, and believe that it won't be an ongoing problem, but it will be. This week it's the Arabs, next week it's environmentalists, the next week its government policy, the next it's speculators. We need to get off the teat.

All of the millions spent on building more fuel-efficient cars, or studying switchgrass, or whatever, well, that's great. What we really need to do is drive less, and it doesn't have to be especially painful. Just different.

We can continue to ignore it, and hope some new fuel technology emerges, or whatever. But we would only be repeating the mistakes of our parents and grandparents. What makes it worse for us to do it is that we have the benefit of historical perspective.


No matter what the next step is, future generations will be saying the same thing that you are now. Everything is unsustainable on the path of infinite time.

[BigRedJed]

Gee, you're right. I guess we should stop trying altogether. We're doomed.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This type of thinking is how people and firms fall behind each other. There is a necessity for alternative thinking when it comes to energy to power transportation vehicles. BRJ's idea of moving people closer to each other is a very good idea to curb gas use.Must I again reiterate, it's fraud by the govt., and is costing us money. You are thinking as a lib on this issue.

[OUDoc]

Seriously, Doc? Do you like most of the improvements that have taken place over the past few years in the OU athletic department (4LIFE's granpap's shafting aside)? Or even on campus in general?

Oil did all of that? Seemed like ticket prices/required donations have gone way up as well. And it's cool that the ultra-rich are getting ultra-richer and donating more money. The stadium looks great.


What about the low unemployment around here? Can most of your patients pay their bills? In a large part of the country lots of people can't right now.

Some pay their bills, some don't. Has nothing to do with the price of oil, except more patients want me to call in medications (not billable at the present time) instead of coming in to see me (billable) because of the gas prices. I haven't noticed any changes one way or another in the past 6 years as to how many go to collections. Where's info showing more patients aren't paying their bills lately?


What about the fact that OKC and the State of Oklahoma aren't having to drastically slash services right now, and also aren't trying to raise your taxes to pay for massive shortfalls?

What "services"?


Any friends or family that, if tough times befell them, you might be called upon to help out?

Let's see. Dad lost his GM job. Uncle and Aunt lost their Bridgestone/Firestone jobs. The price of oil didn't help them any. And whether or not I'd be called on to help them has nothing to do with oil prices and everything to do with the fact that I'm a doctor.


Plan on going to an NBA game, when the team gets here?

Maybe. I saw one Hornets game. Seemed like a basketball game was being played in between music breaks. Don't get me wrong, I think it's really cool we're getting an NBA team. Not really a "life-changer" for me though.


Does it help you that the value of your house isn't in the toilet right now?

Sure. Except for increased property taxes I have to pay.


I'm not saying that your life is directly impacted to the extent of someone in that industry, or that of an architect, or of someone in the sales or service industry, but I don't think it's fair to say that a thriving energy sector "doesn't do ****" for you.
I'm saying there is LESS money in my pocket with higher oil prices than before the prices went up. Seems like it doesn't do **** for me.

[BigRedJed]

Well duh, move downtown. Problem solved. ;)

[BigRedJed]

Also, move your office downtown or my fix doesn't work.

[BigRedJed]

Besides, we need some doctors downtown.

[BigRedJed]

I'd go to you, if you promised not to be cranky.

[BigRedJed]

Or to insist on a prostate exam on every visit, like my current doc.

[BigRedJed]

I never have figured out how he does that with BOTH hands on my shoulders at the same time.

[Boarder]

Must I again reiterate, it's fraud by the govt., and is costing us money. You are thinking as a lib on this issue.

http://eebatou.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/jaws1481.jpeg
The oil using inhabitants of Earth are going to keep ignoring this particular problem until it swims up and bites them on the ***.


Thinking that the government is holding back oil as some kind of fraud instead of focusing on how to use less and less oil is about as dumb, short-sighted, and selfish thinking as you can possibly do.

[Boarder]

Thinking as a lib? A lib? Well WHOOPIDY DOOO! Maybe they're right. Whatever that means.

[StoopTroup]

OUDoc....

You should invest in your own Pharmacy and when the patients call...tell em you called it in to your pharmacy. :D

YWIA :D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

http://eebatou.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/jaws1481.jpeg
The oil using inhabitants of Earth are going to keep ignoring this particular problem until it swims up and bites them on the ***.


Thinking that the government is holding back oil as some kind of fraud instead of focusing on how to use less and less oil is about as dumb, short-sighted, and selfish thinking as you can possibly do.The oil using inhabitants are capable of using nuclear energy, coal and hydroelectric, etc. as well. lol. while at the same time searching for the magical new cheap fuel that competes or improves upon oil, while even more multi-tasking of INSISTING THAT THEIR GOVT. NOT ROB THEM BLIND by artificially keeping the cost of oil high. Now, who's dumb, short-sighted and even worse than selfish...criminal?(hint-the leftist, global-warming crowd)

BTW, is Boarder your new name, Mike? I don't remember the name Boarder.

[Boarder]

Well, you're hint is completely wrong. People who are selfish are by definition people who only think about themselves, not others, now or future others. If you're wanting to get more oil, you're wanting to band aid the problem for your own purpose. Period. The problem is not learning to use something else in the same amount we do now, the problem is learning to wean ourselves from from using so much of anything in the first place.

The mystical people you're talking about aren't worried a bit about using less oil, they're just want to pay less for the tons they use. That way they'll have more money to keep using more and more. And then, maybe when it runs out in the future they'll start worrying about it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, you're hint is completely wrong. People who are selfish are by definition people who only think about themselves, not others, now or future others. If you're wanting to get more oil, you're wanting to band aid the problem for your own purpose. Period. The problem is not learning to use something else in the same amount we do now, the problem is learning to wean ourselves from from using so much of anything in the first place.

The mystical people you're talking about aren't worried a bit about using less oil, they're just want to pay less for the tons they use. That way they'll have more money to keep using more and more. And then, maybe when it runs out in the future they'll start worrying about it.Prosperity's a bitch for you guys, isn't it? It's just WRONG, isn't it?

[mdklatt]

NOT ROB THEM BLIND by artificially keeping the cost of oil high.

BWAHAHAHA! The government has been keeping the cost of oil artificially LOW since forever. Who pays for our military spending in Middle East? Who pays for the costs of air pollution? Who pays for our ever-expanding highway system? Not Joe Schmo filling up his car at Exxon, at least not directly. It's a near certainty he's not paying his fair share indirectly, either. You know how you Republican types like to **** and moan about how the top 0.5% of wage earners pay 99.9% of all taxes or whatever? Well guess what, they're helping to pay for our oil too. Thanks for the cheap gas, George Soros!

Speaking of the government, here's a laugher. Guess who recently tried to institute a moratorium on building solar energy facilities on public land? Not the wacko tree-hugging liberals, but the government! Want to drill for oil or raze a mountain to get some coal? No problem! But solar power, "Wait just a minute--we need to do an environmental impact study!"

[BigRedJed]

Prosperity's a bitch for you guys, isn't it? It's just WRONG, isn't it?
That's not what his post was talking about at all, RLIMC. All he's saying is that maybe it's time that we plan for the future for the first time ever. Maybe, just maybe we should be the ones who break the cycle of ****ing over the next generation, either through action or the lack thereof. Living like there's no tomorrow might be OK to a certain extent, but guess what? Eventually there WILL be a tomorrow.

[BigRedJed]

...BTW, is Boarder your new name, Mike? I don't remember the name Boarder.
I totally missed that. That is carking me the heck up.

[BigRedJed]

Froze! Your troll has 9,800 posts!!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That's not what his post was talking about at all, RLIMC. All he's saying is that maybe it's time that we plan for the future for the first time ever. Maybe, just maybe we should be the ones who break the cycle of ****ing over the next generation, either through action or the lack thereof. Living like there's no tomorrow might be OK to a certain extent, but guess what? Eventually there WILL be a tomorrow.Idon't see ANYBODY arguing to not plan for the future. You guys just accept that it's good for the govt. to jack up prices by prohibiting drilling and refining, instead of recognizing it as the CRIME it is. Every congressman and senator who continues who continues to vote for those prohibitions ought to be charged with robbery of the American public.

[mdklatt]

Every congressman and senator who continues who continues to vote for those prohibitions ought to be charged with robbery of the American public.


DEMOCRACY: IT'S ONLY A GOOD IDEA WHEN IT WORKS OUT IN MY FAVOR

[BigRedJed]

Dude, where does "you guys" come from? I NEVER said it's "good for the govt. to jack up prices by prohibiting drilling and refining." Neither did Boarder. All I'm saying is that we need to find ways to stretch an admittedly finite resource as far as we can, while at the same time trying to figure out what's next.

Burying our heads in the sand, and letting ourselves become hostages to a single commodity, much of which comes from politically and socially sketchy parts of the planet, is what got us into much of the economic/national security/world conflict trouble we're now experiencing. It's nobody's fault in particular, at least from an abstract point of view. It all seemed like a good way to do business at the time, but these days we should be taking away lessons from our collective, historic mistakes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Froze! Your troll has 9,800 posts!!I didn't bother to look up Boarder, but don't remember the name. The writing style and subject reminded me of Froze's stuff.

[BigRedJed]

Still giggling...

[Frozen Sooner]

Prosperity's a bitch for you guys, isn't it? It's just WRONG, isn't it?

You do realize that Boarder is an entrepreneur who employs several people, right? No, he's not me.

[Boarder]

Prosperity's a bitch for you guys, isn't it? It's just WRONG, isn't it?
Is that the best you've got? If you must know, I'm not exactly proud of it.

Actually, almost everyone is arguing about not planning for the future by not reducing consumption. The only one I've heard it mentioned by is...gasp...Obama.

[Curly Bill]

Is that the best you've got? If you must know, I'm not exactly proud of it.

Actually, almost everyone is arguing about not planning for the future by not reducing consumption. The only one I've heard it mentioned by is...gasp...Obama.

In that case I'm definitely against it. ;)

[Viking Kitten]

[Edward Norton]There never was a Mike Rich.[/Edward Norton]

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Dude, where does "you guys" come from? I NEVER said it's "good for the govt. to jack up prices by prohibiting drilling and refining."

Just don't let me catch you voting for any democrats in the Nov. election!

[Frozen Sooner]

[Edward Norton]There never was a Mike Rich.[/Edward Norton]

Hey, baby. Wanna make some soap?

Don't EVER EVER discuss me with Czar.

[yermom]

this conversation... is over