Santa may need a houseboat this summer...

[Okla-homey]

North Pole could be ice free.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/exclusive-no-ice-at-the-north-pole-855406.html

[pergdaddy]

Damn Al Gore.

[OUDoc]

Damn Al Gore.

Without Al Gore, you couldn't have posted "Damn Al Gore" on the internet. :D

[pergdaddy]

Oh my gawd, Doc, you're right.

Is Al Gore a Superhero? Seriously, he has the ability to create things and take things away.

The Incredible Gore vs. Obamanation.

Galacbush vs. The Fantastic Four (Gore as Mr. Fantastic, Obama as Human Torch cause he's on Fire, Hillary as the Invisible Woman and Howard Dean as The Thing)

[soonermix]

we must stop manbearpig, guys i am super cereal

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, its a good thing Al Gore is reducing this carbon footprint.

Oh, wait...

[Frozen Sooner]

So, let me get this straight:

The polar ice cap is melting and could be completely ice-free this summer.

Somehow, this means "Hey, let's trot out Al Gore jokes."

[frankensooner]

No one will be laughing if the North Atlantic Current get turned off. Well, maybe us folks down this way, since we will be feeding The North East and Europe.

[soonerscuba]

Hmm, what will be the excuse this time from the denialists?

[soonerhubs]

So, let me get this straight:

The polar ice cap is melting and could be completely ice-free this summer.

Somehow, this means "Hey, let's trot out Al Gore jokes."

When you're one of the most prolific Hypocrites of your time, you become the target of many a joke. Nobel lost my respect after Arafat won, but once Al Gore won, I knew the award wasn't worth much more than a report card from Gum Springs Elementary School.

[soonerhubs]

I've said it before on another topic, but unless you're growing a Garden and using the three R's to the max, you really have no room to complain about global warming. (This is, of course, implying that climates never changed before the coming of the Cotton Gin and Steam Engine.)

[pergdaddy]

There is global warming. No doubt. Think about it. Ton more people, ton more industry going up in other countries who are new to the world economy. China's growing dependence on oil means more cars on the road there.

Of course there is global warming. That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, but the inventor of the internet did. :)

But hey, the ozone layer is repairing itself.

[soonerscuba]

Solar flares! Al Gore! Nothing to see here folks, move along.

[mdklatt]

No one will be laughing if the North Atlantic Current get turned off. Well, maybe us folks down this way, since we will be feeding The North East and Europe.

Only until Dustbowl II kicks in.

[mdklatt]

But hey, the ozone layer is repairing itself.

Well yeah, once we stopped using the CFCs that were causing the damage in the first place.

[frankensooner]

Only until Dustbowl II kicks in.

well played, well played.

[soonerscuba]

Well yeah, once we stopped using the CFCs that were causing the damage in the first place.
MARS!!!!! AL GORE!!!!! WHY CAN'T YOU ENVIRONAZIS REALIZE THAT THERE ARE NATURAL CYCLES THAT CAUSE ENTIRE REGIONS OF THE GLOBE TO DISAPPEAR!!!!!!!! THIS IS A PLOY BY GREEDY, POLITICS DRIVEN SCIENTISTS!!!!!!!!

[mdklatt]

well played, well played.

I read somewhere that it won't be possible to grow wheat in the lower 48 past 2080 or so. I have no idea what that was based on, probably some combination of climate models and ag models. I assume that number is highly speculative. Nobody predicted such a rapid Arctic meltdown if that's what is actually occurring, which points out that we can't be sure at this point what exactly a warmer world is going to be like. The global socioeconomic upheaval it's going to cause no matter what happens certainly won't be pretty. We have a lot of politicians who are apparently fond of Russian roulette.

[frankensooner]

Even Pat Robertson agreed there is indeed global warming. He was one of the earliest and loudest opponents to the idea, but did a 180.

I am by no means an ENVIRONAZI but things are not looking good right now, and I think it is probably too late to do much of anything. Man is not the only factor, but is a major factor in our current situation. I feel sorry for my kids and my probable grandkids, the future looks scary.

[mdklatt]

I am by no means an ENVIRONAZI but things are not looking good right now, and I think it is probably too late to do much of anything. Man is not the only factor, but is a major factor in our current situation. I feel sorry for my kids and my probable grandkids, the future looks scary.

I liked in the original article where they pointed out that the Arctic nations could use the melting as an opportunity to drill for more oil. D'OH!

[pergdaddy]

frank,
the future does indeed look scary. I hope my children can go through life without a depression or a world war or a plague. I hope there isn't a terminator-like apocalypse on the horizon. I pray everyday that the lead good lives and they won't deal with the horrors that might be coming.

Interesting, I had a jehovah's witness come up to me while I was putting gas in my tractor and he asked me if we are in teh end times. I said no, which apparently he either did not like or did not agree. I said that we've gone through two world wars, a depression, illness plagues and we still managed to pull through. We do need change in everyday life to conserve but the world goes through cycles and I believe that at some point, the earth will reverse and start to rebuild the ice caps,etc. No fact, just my opinion.

He also asked me if I thought we lived forever and that a soul is something you can actually see, hit, kill, touch and that god's kingdom will come down on earth. Wasn't sure what to make of that, that's not how I believe. Anybody in the know, is this a belief of jehovah's witnesses?

Not trying to turn all religious on everybody, because I'm surely not a holy roller, but I do have my beliefs and faith.

Wow, I just rambled.

Sorry guys.

[Penguin]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/k/cheney_satan.jpg


Personally, I blame Satan.

[pergdaddy]

Politics should be like the WWE Battle Royale.

Throw them all in a ring, whoever is the last one wins.

Problem is, Jesse Ventura would probably be President if we did that.

[mdklatt]

Problem is, Jesse Ventura would probably be President if we did that.

Hulk Hogan always beat Jesse Ventura unless the idiot referee was looking the other way while Ric Flair came out of nowhere and started bashing Hogan with a chair while Ventura held him against the ropes. Sometimes I think those referees must have been paid off.

[frankensooner]

Skandar Akbar was always paying them off.

[Penguin]

Sometimes I think those referees must have been paid off.


Damn, right! I think Congress should look into it!

[olevetonahill]

Yall reckon that some of the reason that Ice is melting could Be caused By these . and Not just us farting and Leaving the light On ?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080625/sc_afp/sciencegeologyoceansvolcano

[Lott's Bandana]

Damn, right! I think Congress should look into it!

If I had your username and very cool avatar, I'd be very, very worried right now...

Just sayin'.

(Give some thought to "Pelican"?)

[olevetonahill]

I think its kinda funny that after I posted that link about all the Volcanoes erupting under the Arctic . It got quite ;)

[Jerk]

Good news!

After the polar ice melts, it will be easier to get the oil!

[Soonrboy]

If I had your username and very cool avatar, I'd be very, very worried right now...

Just sayin'.

(Give some thought to "Pelican"?)

Penguins are at the south pole.

It's the polar bears that are getting the friggin shaft.

[pergdaddy]

But aren't polar bears now on the island where the survivors from Lost are?

[Ike]

I think its kinda funny that after I posted that link about all the Volcanoes erupting under the Arctic . It got quite ;)

Looking at the article, I'd have a hard time linking that to the melting ice. It claims that most of the activity happened around 1999 first of all. Second of all, from what I understand, oceanic volcanic activity tends to only cause a temperature spike in a very small region of water around the activity, mainly because water is such a good absorber of heat....so the temperature increase can only go so far.

I think it's worth maybe more study to see if that can be a link to the melting ice, but I'd be quite surprised if it was the cause. I would think that it would take a whole lot of continuous, violent activity to be responsible for that.

[olevetonahill]

I agree Ike , But I think I read somewhere else that there Is continuing Activity.
I'm Not saying its THE cause But I do believe Its a Contributing factor.

[mdklatt]

Yeah, what Ike said. But I'm sure the denialist blogosphere is all abuzz about the Arctic volcanoes, and isn't willing to let something like the heat capacity of water stand in its way.

[mdklatt]

I do believe Its a Contributing factor.

Based on what evidence?

[soonerinabilene]

Based on what evidence?

From what I remember from science class, if you light a match under an ice cube, the ice cube will melt.;)

[mdklatt]

From what I remember from science class, if you light a match under an ice cube, the ice cube will melt.;)


What if the ice cube is in a swimming pool and the match is at the bottom?

[Penguin]

From what I remember from science class, if you light a match under an ice cube, the ice cube will melt.;)

For those of us that didn't go to graduate school, could you please put that in layman's terms?

[olevetonahill]

Based on what evidence?

I do believe That if I had evidence, I could have stated that as FACT
But For your reading comprehension Ill explain what I said .
I believe = a believe Not Based on fact .
Clear ?

[OUDoc]

Either way, the water puts out the match.
<---professional school, baby! ;)

[soonerscuba]

Either way, the water puts out the match.
<---professional school, baby! ;)
Is that why you charge $80 for the match and will only light it Mon-Wed with a 6 month appointment?

[OUDoc]

Is that why you charge $80 for the match and will only light it Mon-Wed with a 6 month appointment?

Yes. Student loans suck. :)

[soonerinabilene]

What if the ice cube is in a swimming pool and the match is at the bottom?

I dont know. My school didnt have a swimming pool. We just had ohio blue tips and a snow cone machine. No Child Left Behind my ***.

[Pricetag]

Can we just start up the super collider now and get this all over with?

[Harry Beanbag]

Does this mean all the coastal cities are going to flood out this summer?

[mdklatt]

Does this mean all the coastal cities are going to flood out this summer?

No. Arctic Ocean ice is already in the water.

[Harry Beanbag]

No. Arctic Ocean ice is already in the water.


Whew. Glad to know that at least some of the scare tactics of the past aren't true. :)

[mdklatt]

Whew. Glad to know that at least some of the scare tactics of the past aren't true. :)

When the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets melt and all that water goes flowing from land to ocean, sea levels will rise. They will also go up due to thermal expansion of the ocean. Nobody is saying that melting sea ice will effect sea levels, except for the denialist blogosphere who I'm sure will be saying that if New York City isn't under 20 feet of water by September, that proves that AGW is all a hoax. They do love them some strawman arguments.

[soonerhubs]

I'm still waiting for someone to refute the proposal that Al Gore is a huge hypocrite. The globe is getting warmer, but someone please give me a rationale argument as to why I should listen to someone who's carbon footprint dwarfs what I'll do in a lifetime.

Oh! Don't give me that Green Carbon Credit crap, because anyone with any type of economics background knows that is just a steaming fresh green pile. So he buys it up so us poor folk can't? He should spend that money he got for the Nobel on other things besides Carbon Credits to power his humongous house.

[mdklatt]

Oh! Don't give me that Green Carbon Credit crap, because anyone with any type of economics background knows that is just a steaming fresh green pile.

How so?



So he buys it up so us poor folk can't? He should spend that money he got for the Nobel on other things besides Carbon Credits to power his humongous house.

I thought we lived in a free market society where Al Gore can work hard and spend his money on whatever he wants?

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Al Gore Joke Hour is a reasonable discussion of "Polar Ice Cap Melting." Whether the guy is a hypocrite or not, or whether you like the guy or not, if the North Pole is going to be ice-free that's kind of something worth discussing.

[Harry Beanbag]

When the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets melt and all that water goes flowing from land to ocean, sea levels will rise. They will also go up due to thermal expansion of the ocean. Nobody is saying that melting sea ice will effect sea levels, except for the denialist blogosphere who I'm sure will be saying that if New York City isn't under 20 feet of water by September, that proves that AGW is all a hoax. They do love them some strawman arguments.


Come on, I've been hearing all my life how if the polar ice caps melted all coastal cities would be ****ed. Now it's just Greenland and Antarctic ice, okay. At least that would actually makes sense if it were to happen.

It's too bad they didn't completely understand how all this stuff works beyond a shadow of doubt like we do now when all these cities were built during cold periods in the earth's cycle. Looks like a poor choice on their part.

[mdklatt]

Come on, I've been hearing all my life how if the polar ice caps melted all coastal cities would be ****ed.

It's basic physics that's been known since Archimedes. A melting ice cube does not raise the level of water in a glass, but if you dump enough new ice cubes into the glass it will overflow.

[Harry Beanbag]

It's basic physics that's been known since Archimedes. A melting ice cube does not raise the level of water in a glass, but if you dump enough new ice cubes into the glass it will overflow.


Dude, believe me, I know all about heat transfer, fluid dynamics, etc.. It wasn't me saying this stuff.

[soonerscuba]

God is melting the ice because Jesus wants us to drill there, isn't this obvious?

[mdklatt]

Dude, believe me, I know all about heat transfer, fluid dynamics, etc.. It wasn't me saying this stuff.

Whomever you were hearing that from--the evil MSM no doubt--was simply wrong. Same thing with the "but they were predicting an Ice Age in the 70s!" strawman. No "they" weren't. If the media ever gets something right about science, it's usually by accident.

[Harry Beanbag]

God is melting the ice because Jesus wants us to drill there, isn't this obvious?


:D

[Harry Beanbag]

Whomever you were hearing that from----was simply wrong.


No ****. That's my point.

[mdklatt]

God is melting the ice because Jesus wants us to drill there, isn't this obvious?

Fossil fuel emissions are melting the Arctic icepack? Fantastic! More fossil fuels! It's like overeating and stretching your stomach so you can overeat even more.

[LesNessman]

So the Arctic cap is melting, but nobody says anything about the Antarctic ice levels increasing (which they have been by the way) or the record cold temperatures worldwide last year.

Here is a pretty good article for all the AGW chicken-littles:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121486841811817591.html?mod=todays_columnists

Just another leftist/socialist concoction to try and control our lives/tell us how to live. Meanwhile the leader of this global warming cult (Al Goron) lives it up in total hypocrisy.

[mdklatt]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121486841811817591.html?mod=todays_columnists



I know I like to get all my science information from WSJ columnists.

[LesNessman]

Do you dispute any of the facts in the article?

It's far better than anything from James Hansen of NASA (one of the leading global warming champions) who has been proven wrong time and time again.

AGW is a leftist, emotional overreaction to an imagined problem. It is a hoax of grand proportions. Fortunately, a lot of people are beginning to see it as that.

[mdklatt]

Do you dispute any of the facts in the article?


I dispute all of them. They're either taken out of context, have since been contradicted by more recent information, or are simply wrong (the denialist trifecta!)



"At least as of February, last winter was the Northern Hemisphere's coldest in decades."




http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/mar08.html


The global surface (land and ocean surface) temperature was the 2nd warmest on record for March in the 129-year record, 1.28&#176; F (0.71&#176; C) above the 20th century mean of 54.9&#176; F (12.7&#176; C). The warmest March on record (+1.33&#176; F/0.74&#176; C) occurred in 2002.

The global land surface temperature was the warmest on record for March, 3.3&#176; F (1.8&#176; C) above the 20th century mean of 40.8&#176; F (5.0&#176; C). Temperatures more than 8&#176; F above average covered much of the Asian continent. Two months after the greatest January snow cover extent on record on the Eurasian continent, the unusually warm temperatures led to rapid snow melt, and March snow cover extent on the Eurasian continent was the lowest on record.



I guess the publication deadline for WSJ Boy was back before the March data were in, because surely he wouldn't leave that out on purpose just because it completely contradicts his assertion.




In May, German climate modelers reported in the journal Nature that global warming is due for a decade-long vacation.

This is the conclusion of one modeling study, using a new experimental technique for ocean heat transport. Nobody else is taking it too seriously yet.



NASA now begrudgingly confirms that the hottest year on record in the continental 48 was not 1998

There's nothing "begrudging" about it. An error was found, the error was fixed. Despite the error, the difference is 1998 and 1934 is negligible, and this only affected data for the continental US. You do know that we're talking about global warming, right? Apparently WSJ Boy doesn't. 1998 is still the warmest global year on record, which is apparently the basis for the "global warming stopped 10 years ago" crap.





Data from 3,000 scientific robots in the world's oceans show there has been slight cooling in the past five years


WSJ Boy must have missed this correction (http://oceans.pmel.noaa.gov/Pdf/heat_2006.pdf) while he was perusing JGR.

[frankensooner]

I see Les is still good with the news. Congrats on the Buckeye Newshawk award.

[Ike]

There are other things puzzling about the WSJ article...


At least as of February, last winter was the Northern Hemisphere's coldest in decades.

But what about this?
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/feb/feb08.html


U.S. Winter Temperature Highlights

In the contiguous United States, the average winter temperature was 33.2&#176;F (0.6&#176;C), which was 0.2&#176;F (0.1&#176;C) above the 20th century average - yet still ranks as the coolest since 2001. It was the 54th coolest winter since national records began in 1895.

Winter temperatures were warmer than average from Texas to the Southeast and along the Eastern Seaboard, while cooler-than-average temperatures stretched from much of the upper Midwest to the West Coast.

Thats from february...the time frame he notes...certainly not the coolest winter in decades...only since 2001(although, thats just for the US, not the entire northern hemisphere...see how fun it is to cherry pick data!)

Oh, and then there's this:


Global Highlights

The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the 16th warmest on record for the December 2007-February 2008 period (0.58&#176;F/0.32&#176;C above the 20th century mean of 53.8&#176;F/12.1&#176;C). The presence of a moderate-to-strong La Ni&#241;a contributed to a boreal winter and February temperature that were the coolest since the La Ni&#241;a episode of 2000-2001.
Wait...the global temperature over the winter was the 16th warmest?! whats going on here! ;)

Generally, whenever you see articles like this that give you a rundown of 'facts', you can almost be sure that those facts are cherry picked to support a particular hypothesis. It would be nice if they'd source those facts to the papers they were originally published in...you might find more evidence of cherry picking.

There's a crapload of measurements being made these days with regard to the climate. They are all important to the big picture, but taken individually, they really don't mean a whole lot, and naturally I could probably find 10 measurements that would support the hypothesis of global warming just as easy I could probably find 10 measurements that don't support the hypothesis. It's only when you take them all together that you can really get a good picture of what may or may not be going on with the global climate.

[mdklatt]

Originally Posted by WSJ Boy
Data from 3,000 scientific robots in the world's oceans show there has been slight cooling in the past five years

I want to revisit this. This column was published today, in 2008. The study he's referring to was published in 2006 and refers to the period 2003-2005, not the "past five years". So, not only is he wrong but he's lying. Or more likely, just regurgitating facts he found by Googling "global warming hoax" without trying to verify them at all. Whatever the case, he's full of ****.