PDA

View Full Version : To the Obama NON-supporters



achiro
6/18/2008, 04:54 PM
Ok here is your chance. Policy issues only! Feel free to cut from the other Obama link to address those things stated by the supporters and counter/debate it. Just stay on policy stuff only. No Muslim, who he circle jerks with, color, etc stuff.

hurricane'bone
6/18/2008, 05:03 PM
wait...what?

achiro
6/18/2008, 05:04 PM
This is the best General Sports Forum thread ever.

:O No wonder I couldn't find it! Sorry, now FOUL, go away if you can't stay on topic! :D

Mixer!
6/18/2008, 05:37 PM
George Soros & Ted Kennedy are behind his platform.





Oh, wait....nevermind. ;)

badger
6/18/2008, 05:38 PM
Because I don't know enough about him yet.

r5TPsooner
6/18/2008, 05:43 PM
I will not vote for him because I think he is a biggot and a racist! Anyone who listens to the **** that his preacher spewed for twenty years can be nothing else IMO.

Plus he flip flops on the issues more than John Kerry ever did. As a matter of fact, I'd vote for Kerry over Obama if they were my only two choices.

Harry Beanbag
6/18/2008, 05:50 PM
Plus he flip flops on the issues more than John Kerry ever did. As a matter of fact, I'd vote for Kerry over Obama if they were my only two choices.


My God, I think you're right. What has the country come to? :(

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 05:54 PM
Plus he flip flops on the issues more than John Kerry ever did.

Did you mean to post this in the McCain thread? :confused:

r5TPsooner
6/18/2008, 05:55 PM
Did you mean to post this in the McCain thread? :confused:

nope but thanks for playing.

SoonerStormchaser
6/18/2008, 06:21 PM
Because he threatens my job security...

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 06:37 PM
Because he threatens my job security...

Yes, I'm sure Obama is going to dismantle the Air Force.

Harry Beanbag
6/18/2008, 07:15 PM
Yes, I'm sure Obama is going to dismantle the Air Force.


Well, Clinton did dismantle Reagan's 500 ship navy. It's not like there aren't precedents for cutting military spending.

Scott D
6/18/2008, 07:24 PM
Well, Clinton did dismantle Reagan's 500 ship navy. It's not like there aren't precedents for cutting military spending.

you make it sound like sending stormchaser to the unemployment line would be a bad thing ;)

Harry Beanbag
6/18/2008, 07:26 PM
you make it sound like sending stormchaser to the unemployment line would be a bad thing ;)

It sounds like he actually likes being in the Air Force, so I guess it could be. I got out 6 months early due to Clinton's downsizing, it was one of the top 5 greatest days of my life. :)

Jerk
6/18/2008, 07:40 PM
Because I'm a redneck who loves guns and doesn't believe in Big Government socialism.

Next question.

achiro
6/18/2008, 08:00 PM
Yes, I'm sure Obama is going to dismantle the Air Force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

This scares me to death, and is one huge reason I will not vote for Obama.

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 09:05 PM
It's not like there aren't precedents for cutting military spending.

But nobody gets laid-off from the military, do they?

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 09:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE


Sounds a lot like what Rumsfeld was trying to do, actually.

C&CDean
6/18/2008, 09:10 PM
But nobody gets laid-off from the military, do they?

You've got so much to learn about so many things...

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 09:14 PM
You've got so much to learn about so many things...

So they'll just kick you out the door?

C&CDean
6/18/2008, 09:23 PM
So they'll just kick you out the door?

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends.

MR2-Sooner86
6/18/2008, 09:34 PM
Gosh where do I start!

Well he has the title of the most LIBERAL senator in the senate.
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/voteratings/

Well first off he's for a federal law to turn back every single state's concealed carry gun laws.

"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html

He wants to bring back the Assault Weapons Ban back.

Lets not forget his remark of "people clinging to their guns". Yeah, he's a real pro 2nd amendment guy!

Now many people talk about his Muslim background. Many ask, what's wrong with being Muslim? Lets see, when was the last time you saw a Christan or Buddist shove a stick of TNT up his *** and blow up innocent people? Lets not forget that anything against Muslims makes them go ape **** and blow up McDonalds. (remember the Denmark cartoons?) Yeah, did you see that going on with Christians and Virgin Mary Elephant Dung? Simply put, Muslim radicals are bad. Muslims can't take critism and get ****ed off over nothing.

Now you may say I'm being racist and stupid.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/girl-17-killed-in-iraq-for-loving-a-british-soldier-816301.html

Gee does that sound peaceful and loving!?

Lets not forget the Rev Jeremiah Wright. Did you know he was Muslim and studied a radical one at that? Gee he was also a black nationalist!

Now Obama was around that for 20 years. He didn't know he was a radical thinking type of guy? Give me a ****ing break. If he truely didn't know this guy's true colors he obviously had his head shoved waaaaaaaaaaay up his ***.

Speaking of old friends how about William Ayers? That guy who is a known terrorist? Eh, no big deal right?

Now lets look at his wife Michelle Obama.
She is just now proud of her country? America is just downright mean!?
Bitch if you don't ****ing like it then get the **** out!

Now lets look at his voting record shall we?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

From his voting records you can see he...

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's right

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Require hiring more women & minorities

Favors topic 3:
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits

Opposes topic 4:
Teacher-led prayer in public schools

Opposes topic 8:
Death Penalty
(Yes because our prison and legal system has no leaks where people like that can get out and do it again :rolleyes:)

Opposes topic 9:
Mandatory Three Strikes sentencing laws

Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(Guns don't kill people. People kill people. If you believe it's guns you don't know your *** from a hole in the ground.)

Favors topic 5:
More federal funding for health coverage
(Yes because it's working so well for Europe.)

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Replace coal & oil with alternatives
(As long as it's not nuclear and as long as it's wind farms and...well wind farms. They're the only ones not killing mother earth.)

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Make taxes more progressive
(You fill in the blank.)

Strongly Favors topic 12:
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship
(Yeah this is another dumb **** idea. Lets pass it!)

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the armed forces
(He's a liberal and liberals hate the military. Lets just mark it as "strongly favors" ;) )



Why won't I vote for him? I just showed you he's a hardcore liberal. I hate liberal ideas and theories. Big government rocks because I can't run my own life! :rolleyes:
He has very iffy ties to people he should have known didn't have all their dogs barking. Yet he didn't. Why?

:pop:

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 09:44 PM
Opposes topic 8:
Death Penalty
(Yes because our prison and legal system has no leaks where people like that can get out and do it again :rolleyes:)


So you acknowledge that the legal system is imperfect...now let's give it the power to KILL PEOPLE! Brilliant. :rolleyes:

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
6/18/2008, 10:06 PM
ow many people talk about his Muslim background. Many ask, what's wrong with being Muslim? Lets see, when was the last time you saw a Christan or Buddist shove a stick of TNT up his *** and blow up innocent people? Do the names Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols ring a bell?

C&CDean
6/18/2008, 10:13 PM
Do the names Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols ring a bell?

a) They didn't stick the dynamite up their own asses and praise allah when they pulled the cord.

b) One "terrorist" attack by a couple of whitebread cracker *** crackers who were completely whacked out of their heads with hate for the government does not = hundred/thousands of muslims who continue to kill innocent people in the name of allah.

No excuse for what McVeigh and Nichols did, but bringing their names up when people talk about "who goes around blowing innocent people up" is like bringing Sicem's name up when people talk about "who got laid last week." There's a chance that Sicem has been laid some time in his life, but if so, it was once.

GottaHavePride
6/18/2008, 10:14 PM
I thought achiro said policy stuff only? Does that include dripping sarcasm?


Gosh where do I start!

Well he has the title of the most LIBERAL senator in the senate.
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/voteratings/

That's a totally meaningless designation to me. To hell with labeling people "liberals" and "conservatives" - discuss what their actual policy stances are.

Well first off he's for a federal law to turn back every single state's concealed carry gun laws.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html

It didn't say that anywhere in that article. He said he's not in favor of concealed carry. Did he say he's proposing legislation to ban concealed carry? No.

He wants to bring back the Assault Weapons Ban back.

valid point here.

Lets not forget his remark of "people clinging to their guns". Yeah, he's a real pro 2nd amendment guy!

way to take his comment out of context that was actually about reasons behind single-issue voters being fed up with the system

Now many people talk about his Muslim background. Many ask, what's wrong with being Muslim? Lets see, when was the last time you saw a Christan or Buddist shove a stick of TNT up his *** and blow up innocent people? Lets not forget that anything against Muslims makes them go ape **** and blow up McDonalds. (remember the Denmark cartoons?) Yeah, did you see that going on with Christians and Virgin Mary Elephant Dung? Simply put, Muslim radicals are bad. Muslims can't take critism and get ****ed off over nothing.

This has nothing to do with policy. And he's not Muslim, so what relevance does it have?

Now you may say I'm being racist and stupid.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/girl-17-killed-in-iraq-for-loving-a-british-soldier-816301.html

Gee does that sound peaceful and loving!?

This has what to do with Obama's policy views?

Lets not forget the Rev Jeremiah Wright. Did you know he was Muslim and studied a radical one at that? Gee he was also a black nationalist!

Now Obama was around that for 20 years. He didn't know he was a radical thinking type of guy? Give me a ****ing break. If he truely didn't know this guy's true colors he obviously had his head shoved waaaaaaaaaaay up his ***.

You're still attacking the man, not the policy.

Speaking of old friends how about William Ayers? That guy who is a known terrorist? Eh, no big deal right?

Now lets look at his wife Michelle Obama.
She is just now proud of her country? America is just downright mean!?
Bitch if you don't ****ing like it then get the **** out!

Man, that's a whole lot of non-policy arguments there.

Now lets look at his voting record shall we?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

From his voting records you can see he...

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's right

I agree with him. He also supports education to prevent teen pregnancy and spread of STDs. How is that bad?

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Require hiring more women & minorities

Actually, he supports women reciving equal pay compared to men's salaries. And adding income-based criteria to affirmative action. So I'm undecided there.

Favors topic 3:
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits

"Opposes gay marriage; supports civil union & gay equality" Bingo. They just want tax and inheritance benefits like everyone else.

Opposes topic 4:
Teacher-led prayer in public schools

Actually, none of the data points cited for that point has anything to do with prayer in schools. But I agree with opposing mandated, teacher-led prayer in schools.

Opposes topic 8:
Death Penalty
(Yes because our prison and legal system has no leaks where people like that can get out and do it again :rolleyes:)

Um, "Some heinous crimes justify the ultimate punishment" and "Death penalty should be enforced fairly and with caution" doesn't sound like 100% opposition to me. I'm undecided on the death penalty. Some people belong dead, but it's not exactly the effective deterrent it was intended to be.

Opposes topic 9:
Mandatory Three Strikes sentencing laws

Again, undecided. Some people need to be removed from society, but maybe it would be more effective to focus on fixing the causes behind the crimes rather than just spending a crapload of money to stuff people away in prisons.

Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(Guns don't kill people. People kill people. If you believe it's guns you don't know your *** from a hole in the ground.)

I disagree with him on that. Banning guns means only the criminals will have them. **** that noise.

Favors topic 5:
More federal funding for health coverage
(Yes because it's working so well for Europe.)

Throwing money at it won't fix what's wrong with it, but it probably wouldn't hurt either.

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Replace coal & oil with alternatives
(As long as it's not nuclear and as long as it's wind farms and...well wind farms. They're the only ones not killing mother earth.)

"3-way win: economy, environment, & stop funding terror" Sounds reasonable to me. The less dependent on oil we are, the better.

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Make taxes more progressive
(You fill in the blank.)

I actually LIKE the suggestions to do away with the income tax and go to a purely consumption-driven tax.

Strongly Favors topic 12:
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship
(Yeah this is another dumb **** idea. Lets pass it!)

Actually he favors one of the ideas I've been saying for years: Guest Worker status. Track them and tax them.

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the armed forces
(He's a liberal and liberals hate the military. Lets just mark it as "strongly favors" ;) )

Actually, the data points there say he wants to increase the size of the military so we can limit deployment times to 12 months. In that site's arithmetic, that means he has no opinion. It actually sounds like a pretty reasonable opinion to me.



Why won't I vote for him? I just showed you he's a hardcore liberal. I hate liberal ideas and theories. Big government rocks because I can't run my own life! :rolleyes:
He has very iffy ties to people he should have known didn't have all their dogs barking. Yet he didn't. Why?

:pop:

OK, now show me why McCain is better.

C&CDean
6/18/2008, 10:23 PM
So, I guess that seals the deal. Black folks and young white folks with heads full of mush are voting for Brack. Cool.

Good thing there's enough sensible people out there to push McCain over the top.

Soonerus
6/18/2008, 10:25 PM
Younger people do not know that "change" has been around for about 50 years and the naive bite on it over and over...

GottaHavePride
6/18/2008, 10:26 PM
Heh. I haven't decided who I'm voting for yet. I'm just saying that's what I think compared to his stances. Seriously, anyone want to provide a similar breakdown for McCain?

Tulsa_Fireman
6/18/2008, 10:29 PM
McCain = Master of Poontang

WIN.

GottaHavePride
6/18/2008, 10:36 PM
That site didn't address their stances on two issues I'd like to hear about.

Where do the candidates stand on "legalize marijuana and tax the **** out of it"?

Oh, and higher taxes on cigarettes. Far more effective than banning smoking would be jacking taxes up to about $20 a pack. Kind of a "if you insist on causing health problems for others, then you can damn well pay for universal healthcare while you're doing it." ;)

def_lazer_fc
6/18/2008, 10:43 PM
So, I guess that seals the deal. Black folks and young white folks with heads full of mush are voting for Brack. Cool.

Good thing there's enough sensible people out there to push McCain over the top.

somebody forgot to take their blood pressure meds again.

def_lazer_fc
6/18/2008, 10:46 PM
a) They didn't stick the dynamite up their own asses and praise allah when they pulled the cord.

b) One "terrorist" attack by a couple of whitebread cracker *** crackers who were completely whacked out of their heads with hate for the government does not = hundred/thousands of muslims who continue to kill innocent people in the name of allah.

No excuse for what McVeigh and Nichols did, but bringing their names up when people talk about "who goes around blowing innocent people up" is like bringing Sicem's name up when people talk about "who got laid last week." There's a chance that Sicem has been laid some time in his life, but if so, it was once.

the muslim fanatics are just trying to catch up with the body count. but just going off the bible, they got a lot of work to do to catch up with god.

oh yeah, ill go ahead and save you the time and just say now that im not condoning terrorism, regardless of religion.

:pop:

def_lazer_fc
6/18/2008, 10:48 PM
McCain = Master of Poontang

WIN.

that dude probably hasn't been able to get it up for about 40 years now. :D

Harry Beanbag
6/18/2008, 10:51 PM
But nobody gets laid-off from the military, do they?


Apparently you're having a hard time reading my posts today. From above...


I got out 6 months early due to Clinton's downsizing

We decommissioned my ship. I was one of the last 5 or so guys attached to the ship overseeing the reactor defuelings and sawzalling of the superstructure. When they didn't need us anymore I was honorably discharged.

Frozen Sooner
6/18/2008, 10:53 PM
reactor defuelings and sawzalling of the superstructure

I just got a big dollop of man-envy, 'cause that's the coolest weekend project I've ever heard of.

MR2-Sooner86
6/18/2008, 10:53 PM
That's a totally meaningless designation to me. To hell with labeling people "liberals" and "conservatives" - discuss what their actual policy stances are.

Isn't having a "liberal" or "conservative" view show you a bit of their political stance? Yes? No?


It didn't say that anywhere in that article. He said he's not in favor of concealed carry. Did he say he's proposing legislation to ban concealed carry? No.

Do I have to do all the research here?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.gun.html
"Supports extending the assault weapons ban. Supports national law against carrying concealed weapons, with exceptions for retired police and military personnel. Supports limiting gun sales to one per month."


way to take his comment out of context that was actually about reasons behind single-issue voters being fed up with the system

Uh huh.


This has nothing to do with policy. And he's not Muslim, so what relevance does it have?
This has what to do with Obama's policy views?
You're still attacking the man, not the policy.
Man, that's a whole lot of non-policy arguments there.


Now this is the one I just die laughing over.

If it's all about "policy" then why would it matter if a senator was a Grand Dragon of the KKK? Why was Romney's Mormonism such a big deal? What Marion Barry did in his personal life didn't reflect what he did in office?

Tell me, if it came out that Obama hung out with pedophiles in high school what would you think then? What if a 20 year old arsons crime was said to have evidence linking to him? If Obama was quoted in saying, "I think all white people suck" would your opinion change?

Oh wait! It wouldn't! That's not policy! I forgot this is the presidential race we're talking about here. It doesn't matter if the person worships Satan or snorts coke! It's all about the issues! We don't care about this person or their opinions. We just care on what they marked in yes or no! Screw the other stuff!

GottaHavePride
6/18/2008, 10:54 PM
If I was decommissioning a ship I would leave the job to one large crazy man named Gunther. His equipment would be a sledgehammer and a welding torch.

Frozen Sooner
6/18/2008, 10:55 PM
If I was decommissioning a ship I would leave the job to one large crazy man named Gunther. His equipment would be a sledgehammer and a welding torch.

And a big ol' basket of rum?

Harry Beanbag
6/18/2008, 10:58 PM
I just got a big dollop of man-envy, 'cause that's the coolest weekend project I've ever heard of.


It was the best duty I ever had. On 24 hours then off 48 hours. It was a LONG weekend though.

def_lazer_fc
6/18/2008, 10:59 PM
If it's all about "policy" then why would it matter if a senator was a Grand Dragon of the KKK? Why was Romney's Mormonism such a big deal? What Marion Barry did in his personal life didn't reflect what he did in office?


if a presidential candidate was in the KKK, yes, i wouldn't vote for them. if they were rumored incorrectly to be muslim, i wouldn't care. hell, i wouldn't care if they were muslim anyway. i never really understood the muslim thing.

achiro
6/18/2008, 11:01 PM
Sounds a lot like what Rumsfeld was trying to do, actually.

Link?

GottaHavePride
6/18/2008, 11:06 PM
Isn't having a "liberal" or "conservative" view show you a bit of their political stance? Yes? No?

To me, no, it doesn't tell me a damn thing.




Now this is the one I just die laughing over.

If it's all about "policy" then why would it matter if a senator was a Grand Dragon of the KKK? Why was Romney's Mormonism such a big deal? What Marion Barry did in his personal life didn't reflect what he did in office?I'm pretty sure being a member of the KKK would at minimum influence a person's policy decisions, and at most would result in them committing quite a few illegal acts. Either way, I wouldn't be voting for them.

Romney's Mormonism wasn't a big deal to me.

Marion Barry broke the law and landed in jail. and then STILL got re-elected. In fact, he's still a Councilman in DC. I wouldn't have voted for him after that. Although at least it was only possession and not distribution.

GottaHavePride
6/18/2008, 11:08 PM
if a presidential candidate was in the KKK, yes, i wouldn't vote for them. if they were rumored incorrectly to be muslim, i wouldn't care. hell, i wouldn't care if they were muslim anyway. i never really understood the muslim thing.

Last I checked, religion is not illegal. If it was we also wouldn't be able to elect Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Methodists, or Baptists. Or, for that matter, Hindu, Buddhists, Daoists, Shamanists, Celts, Druids, and worshippers of Quetzalcoatl.

achiro
6/18/2008, 11:17 PM
Isn't having a "liberal" or "conservative" view show you a bit of their political stance? Yes? No?



Do I have to do all the research here?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.gun.html
"Supports extending the assault weapons ban. Supports national law against carrying concealed weapons, with exceptions for retired police and military personnel. Supports limiting gun sales to one per month."



Uh huh.



Now this is the one I just die laughing over.

If it's all about "policy" then why would it matter if a senator was a Grand Dragon of the KKK? Why was Romney's Mormonism such a big deal? What Marion Barry did in his personal life didn't reflect what he did in office?

Tell me, if it came out that Obama hung out with pedophiles in high school what would you think then? What if a 20 year old arsons crime was said to have evidence linking to him? If Obama was quoted in saying, "I think all white people suck" would your opinion change?

Oh wait! It wouldn't! That's not policy! I forgot this is the presidential race we're talking about here. It doesn't matter if the person worships Satan or snorts coke! It's all about the issues! We don't care about this person or their opinions. We just care on what they marked in yes or no! Screw the other stuff!

In all seriousness, there have been several threads that have thrown the association thing, muslim thing, church thing around. For the record it is a concern for me as well, but this THREAD is about policy differences.

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 11:23 PM
Link?

Rumsfeld wanted to transform the military into a more smaller, more agile force by relying on technology and focusing on the wars we'd be more likely to fight in the future. He also wanted to ax a lot of big-budget programs that only made sense if we were still fighting the Cold War. In short, he wanted to **** off a lot of admirals and generals. I can't find a good summary of his plan, but this (http://www.slate.com/id/2108400/) alludes to it and describes how he fell short of his goals.

Rumsfeld botched Iraq by sticking dogmatically to the idea that fewer was better, and not deploying enough troops to keep Iraq from collapsing once Saddam was gone. I gather that Obama wants to keep us out of situations like that to begin with, so that a smaller military is not necessarily a liability.

China already has us over the barrel economically, they wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't threaten us militarily. But with Putin seemingly pining for the "good old days", maybe we do need a larger military? With the economic situation the way it is, I don't think we need to be spending for Cold War II just yet.

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 11:32 PM
Apparently you're having a hard time reading my posts today. From above...


You made it sound like a voluntary early discharge. I figured that's how they did RIFs, granting early discharges to people that wanted them and not replacing normal attrition.

If Obama wants to downsize, we'll have no problems getting volunteers.

12
6/18/2008, 11:58 PM
He has a shakey camera man.

SoonerStormchaser
6/19/2008, 06:13 AM
Good thing there's enough sensible people out there to push McCain over the top.

As much as I hope that's true Dean, I doubt it...and an Obama presidency scares me more than another Clinton one.

Harry Beanbag
6/19/2008, 07:52 AM
You made it sound like a voluntary early discharge. I figured that's how they did RIFs, granting early discharges to people that wanted them and not replacing normal attrition.

It depends on a lot of things. In the end though, it is based on the needs of the Navy/Air Force/Army, it's not a freaking union.



If Obama wants to downsize, we'll have no problems getting volunteers.

Sounds like a great idea!!

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 09:30 AM
an Obama presidency scares me more than another Clinton one

Yeah, I'm sure elementary school was awful for you.

Lott's Bandana
6/19/2008, 09:54 AM
Younger people do not know that "change" has been around for thousands of years and the naive bite on it over and over...

Fixed.

Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed
Ceasar(s), Lenin, Walesa
The Royal and Ancient, Designated Hitter, BCS, Charlie Weis

Take JFK's campaign speeches and the armies of volunteers enthralled by his message and Photoshop BHO into the videos and the rhetoric/phrasing/delivery is almost identical. (Except for the accent)

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 09:55 AM
His ignorance is what scares me.


It is my firm belief that we can track terrorists, we can crack down on threats against the United States. But we can do so within the constraints of our Constitution. Let's take the example of Guantanamo. What we know is that in previous terrorist attacks, for example, the first attack against the World Trade Center, we were able to arrest those responsible, put them on trial. They are currently in U.S. prisons, incapacitated.

Wow.

Not sure if he is really this stupid, or is just simply lying?

XFollower
6/19/2008, 11:28 AM
Just his remark that if his daughters were to make a mistake and get pregnant that he wouldn't want them "punished" with a baby was enough to turn me off. I believe whether two people choose for birth or not, a baby is a gift from God that should never be considered as "punishment" or compared to an STD. That shows his little value of life. And yes I do cling to my guns and religion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNzmly28Bmg

There is so much more that amazes me too. If McCain went to a church that preached white power, what would happen. He's definitely not the unifier that he claims to be. The sad part is I'm not that fond of McCain either.

Scott D
6/19/2008, 04:58 PM
His ignorance is what scares me.



Wow.

Not sure if he is really this stupid, or is just simply lying?

you do realize the first World Trade Center attack was in the early 90s, not in 2001 right? I was in New Jersey when it happened, and I had everything except a body cavity search done at the airport when I was going back to Hawaii.

those who carried out the act are currently serving time in jail, including the 'mastermind'. It's a large reason that Bin Laden claimed he orchestrated September 11th.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 05:03 PM
you do realize the first World Trade Center attack was in the early 90s, not in 2001 right?

And Khalid Sheik Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed) will stand trial for the 9/11 attacks, but don't bother Tuba with facts.

Harry Beanbag
6/19/2008, 05:14 PM
I could be wrong, but I think Tuba was implying that simply arresting and trying the terrorists does absolutely nothing in terms of deterrence. Those guys aren't afraid of our criminal justice system, in fact they probably relish it.

Scott D
6/19/2008, 05:16 PM
I could be wrong, but I think Tuba was implying that simply arresting and trying the terrorists does absolutely nothing in terms of deterrence. Those guys aren't afraid of our criminal justice system, in fact they probably relish it.

doesn't change the fact that those directly responsible for that attack are in fact, incapacitiated. they're in isolation, separate from the general body of prisoners, in a maximum security facility.

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 05:20 PM
those who carried out the act are currently serving time in jail, including the 'mastermind'. It's a large reason that Bin Laden claimed he orchestrated September 11th.

Do a lookup on Abdul Rahman Yasin and see what happened to him. He should've been in Gitmo, but instead fled to Iraq.

Yes, Saddam's Iraq.

Yes, in the 1990s.

The "mastermind" is sitting in Gitmo right now. He was not "arrested" by the police, he was captured by the CIA in Pakistan working under the executive powers given to fight the GWOT.

Turns out we couldn't catch him the first few times he slaughted innocent Americans with the legal system, as BHO would have us return too.

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 05:24 PM
I could be wrong, but I think Tuba was implying that simply arresting and trying the terrorists does absolutely nothing in terms of deterrence. Those guys aren't afraid of our criminal justice system, in fact they probably relish it.
DING DING DING!!!!

Its really not hard to figure out, unless one has their head in the sand, as most liberal's seem too.

This is a recent article I read. Very on the money..


Obama’s America Is September 10th America
His latest remarks betray an alarming ignorance.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

This is June 2008. That means it marks the ten-year anniversary of Osama bin Laden’s indictment. He was first charged by my old office, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, in June 1998. That was before the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (hundreds killed), before the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole (17 U.S. members of the U.S. Navy killed), and before 9/11 (nearly 3000 Americans killed). So it’s fair to ask: How is that strategy of prosecuting him in the criminal-justice system working out?

That’s a question Sen. John McCain ought to be putting to Sen. Barack Obama every day.



http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTFhZTdmZWZlMGExNDRjOWRlZWUxYzEwNjg0MWEzZDc=

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 05:26 PM
doesn't change the fact that those directly responsible for that attack are in fact, incapacitiated. they're in isolation, separate from the general body of prisoners, in a maximum security facility.Cept Bin Laden.

Of course, he is in isolation. Either in a cave or in a grave, where he belongs.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 05:28 PM
I could be wrong, but I think Tuba was implying that simply arresting and trying the terrorists does absolutely nothing in terms of deterrence.

Waging war on people who want to become martyrs isn't so good for deterrence, either.

Harry Beanbag
6/19/2008, 05:29 PM
Waging war on people who want to become martyrs isn't so good for deterrence, either.


:les: THAT'S WHY WE GOTTA KILL 'EM ALL!!!!1!!!!!1!

TopDawg
6/19/2008, 05:33 PM
Do a lookup on Abdul Rahman Yasin and see what happened to him. He should've been in Gitmo, but instead fled to Iraq.

Yes, Saddam's Iraq.

Yes, in the 1990s.

The "mastermind" is sitting in Gitmo right now. He was not "arrested" by the police, he was captured by the CIA in Pakistan working under the executive powers given to fight the GWOT.

Turns out we couldn't catch him the first few times he slaughted innocent Americans with the legal system, as BHO would have us return too.

This is what I found.


Soon following investigation of the attack on Feb. 26, 1993, Yasin was picked up by the FBI on March 4, 1993, the same day as the arrest of Mohammed A. Salameh, in a sweep of sites associated with Salameh. Yasin was found in the apartment in Jersey City, New Jersey, that he was sharing with his mother.

Yasin was taken to New Jersey FBI headquarters in Newark, where he was reportedly very cool and cooperative. Agents had Yasin retrace where and how the WTC bomb had been built in New York and New Jersey.

One of seven men indicted for 1993 WTC attack, with full knowledge and approval of US Attorneys involved in the case, Yasin was set free and encouraged to leave the US.

Yasin said he was released after giving agents names and addresses, and went to Iraq.

Maybe you don't agree with him being released...but it looks like he WAS indeed captured.

Scott D
6/19/2008, 05:34 PM
Do a lookup on Abdul Rahman Yasin and see what happened to him. He should've been in Gitmo, but instead fled to Iraq.

Yes, Saddam's Iraq.

Yes, in the 1990s.

The "mastermind" is sitting in Gitmo right now. He was not "arrested" by the police, he was captured by the CIA in Pakistan working under the executive powers given to fight the GWOT.

Turns out we couldn't catch him the first few times he slaughted innocent Americans with the legal system, as BHO would have us return too.

interesting, since the alleged mastermind was Omar Abdel-Rahman who was arrested in 1993, convicted in 1995 and sentenced in 1996.

Scott D
6/19/2008, 05:36 PM
Cept Bin Laden.

Of course, he is in isolation. Either in a cave or in a grave, where he belongs.

I think you lack comprehension on the world 'directly'

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 05:43 PM
Maybe you don't agree with him being released...but it looks like he WAS indeed captured.

Well, obviously that plan worked out really, really well. Didn't it? :rolleyes:

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 05:46 PM
I think you lack comprehension on the world 'directly'
No, I just don't live in the world of putting out fires one at a time, instead of trying to fix the overall problem.

One of the main reasons we havn't been attacked since 9/11.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 05:46 PM
Well, obviously that plan worked out really, really well. Didn't it? :rolleyes:

About as well as our support of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in the 80s. Oops.

OklahomaTuba
6/19/2008, 05:54 PM
About as well as our support of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in the 80s. Oops.
Hind sight of course, with a big ol Cold War going on as well.

Hopefully, we don't ever repeat those mistakes.

Obama seems more than willing to repeat the anti-terror mistakes of the 1990s. I really can't imagine anyone could be stupid enough to want that.

Scott D
6/19/2008, 05:57 PM
Hind sight of course, with a big ol Cold War going on as well.

Hopefully, we don't ever repeat those mistakes.

Obama seems more than willing to repeat the anti-terror mistakes of the 1990s. I really can't imagine anyone could be stupid enough to want that.

as a country we constantly repeat those mistakes. we're always for somebody before we're against them.

TopDawg
6/19/2008, 05:59 PM
So, Tuba...I'm curious to know what you decided about Obama's ignorance when he said:


What we know is that in previous terrorist attacks, for example, the first attack against the World Trade Center, we were able to arrest those responsible, put them on trial. They are currently in U.S. prisons, incapacitated.

Is he stupid or was he lying?

Scott D
6/19/2008, 05:59 PM
No, I just don't live in the world of putting out fires one at a time, instead of trying to fix the overall problem.

One of the main reasons we havn't been attacked since 9/11.

seems to me that this Omar guy would be great bait in the mission that our sitting President can't accomplish. He's bin Laden's friggin idol. but I guess that'd be a small fire to put out instead of fixing an overall problem.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 06:05 PM
seems to me that this Omar guy would be great bait in the mission that our sitting President can't accomplish.

Getting our hands in Bin Laden is overrated. Taking him down would do nothing but satisfy people's bloodlust for revenge. Now letting Afghanistan flare up again because all of our troops are in Iraq is another matter.

MR2-Sooner86
6/19/2008, 10:31 PM
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee here we go again!

http://66.235.181.27/subdomain/bizdir.indianyellowpages.com/dynamic-files/bc-full/21997/1021471.jpg


i never really understood the muslim thing.

It's not muslims.


It's the double muslims you gotta wory about. Cuz they can't wait to get to Allah. And they want to take 10-20 mother ****ers with them.


To me, no, it doesn't tell me a damn thing.

Maybe you should look just a little bit closer.


I'm pretty sure being a member of the KKK would at minimum influence a person's policy decisions, and at most would result in them committing quite a few illegal acts. Either way, I wouldn't be voting for them.

Hmmmm. Being a member of the KKK does influence a person's policy decisions. Yet being friends with nut jobs and the whole situation being fuzzy doesn't?


Romney's Mormonism wasn't a big deal to me.

It wasn't to you but I remember hearing all sorts of crap.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html

That being just one of many I remember hearing and seeing.


Marion Barry broke the law and landed in jail. and then STILL got re-elected. In fact, he's still a Councilman in DC. I wouldn't have voted for him after that. Although at least it was only possession and not distribution.

He got "clean" so he could get re-elected then went back to his old *snort* habbits. Don't be surprised at him getting re-elected though. Remember, this is a city that believes it's ban on hand guns "prevents" violence.


In all seriousness, there have been several threads that have thrown the association thing, muslim thing, church thing around. For the record it is a concern for me as well, but this THREAD is about policy differences.

Alright we can talk about policy.

He's anti 2nd Amendment.
He has this fairy tale of universal health care.
His stance says "open borders" for illegals.
He cares what enviromentalist think.

I will give him one thing. He can say "change" and people jizz their pants, shove their head up their ***, and become mindlessly tools. It's really amazing to watch if you ask me.


So, Tuba...I'm curious to know what you decided about Obama's ignorance when he said:

What we know is that in previous terrorist attacks, for example, the first attack against the World Trade Center, we were able to arrest those responsible, put them on trial. They are currently in U.S. prisons, incapacitated.

Is he stupid or was he lying?

Tell me, how do you arrest and put on trail the attackers of 9/11 and the U.S.S. Cole when THEY BLEW THEMSELVES UP!

As for the Khobar Towers bombing. It's hard to arrest the people you buy your oil from.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 10:35 PM
He has this fairy tale of universal health care.


I'll tell you what a fairy tale is: Being willing to pay for somebody's expensive ER visit but not the doctor visit that would have prevented the ER visit in the first place and thinking this is a good idea.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 10:37 PM
I will give him one thing. He can say "change" and people jizz their pants, shove their head up their ***, and become mindlessly tools. It's really amazing to watch if you ask me.

Hmm, I see Republicans do this whenever George Bush says "we're at war".

TopDawg
6/19/2008, 11:33 PM
Tell me, how do you arrest and put on trail the attackers of 9/11 and the U.S.S. Cole when THEY BLEW THEMSELVES UP!

The attackers? Guess you don't have to. But the people who were part of it? Isn't that what we went to Afghanistan to do? Ya know...back when we had the support of the rest of the world?

def_lazer_fc
6/20/2008, 01:05 AM
DING DING DING!!!!

Its really not hard to figure out, unless one has their head in the sand, as most liberal's seem too.



this coming from someone with their head so far up limbaugh's ***.
:D

def_lazer_fc
6/20/2008, 01:11 AM
not sure who this new MR2 guy is, but a word of advice. stop. breathe. and lay off the sauce just a tad.

Scott D
6/20/2008, 01:45 PM
this coming from someone with their head so far up limbaugh's ***.
:D

to be fair, Tuba has said many times he thinks Limbaugh is a blowhard.