Umm, excuse me Miss, we want your vote, but you gotta get outta here... [Archive]

soonerscuba

6/18/2008, 12:42 PM

yermom

6/18/2008, 12:42 PM

like the thread aboout this wouldn't be worse if there was a picture of two Muslim women standing behind him

they probably should have been less obvious about it...

Okla-homey

6/18/2008, 12:46 PM

Savvy campaigning. Everyone does it, by the way Republicans choose to format the convention seating for TV, you would think 75% of the crowd is a minority.

I think he can withstand the heat of moving them more than emails claiming Obama was seen at an AQ meeting with two jihadists, WITH VIDEO!!!!111!!111

So, to recap, it is acceptable to compromise your avowed principles to get elected. Got it. And for the record, IMHO, that's one of the biggest things wrong with American politics, donk or pub.

soonerscuba

6/18/2008, 12:50 PM

So, to recap, it is acceptable to compromise your avowed principles to get elected. Got it. And for the record, IMHO, that's one of the biggest things wrong with American politics, donk or pub.
I agree, but I think if you are running for president and appeal to a broad enough section of the electorate to be a general election candidate, you have already compromised your avowed principles.

JohnnyMack

6/18/2008, 12:54 PM

Okla-homey

6/18/2008, 01:04 PM

You act like Obama is the one who was setting the crowd up. It was a decision (a poor one) made by a staffer.

weak sauce. Actions of campaign staffers are generally attributable to their candidate. Of course, this is the Messiah of America we're talking about, so we'll give him a pass. Change.

Sooner_Havok

6/18/2008, 01:05 PM

You act like Obama is the one who was setting the crowd up. It was a decision (a poor one) made by a staffer.

I don't think it was a bad one. Fox will have a hay day with this, but they would have had more fun with "B. Hussein photographed with terrorists? Why does Mr. Obama disagree with women's rights, and why does he support an American Islamic state?"

Sooner_Havok

6/18/2008, 01:09 PM

weak sauce. Actions of campaign staffers are generally attributable to their candidate. Of course, this is the Messiah of America we're talking about, so we'll give him a pass. Change.

Hey, I am with you that politics in America are teh suck. You have to do certain things to ensure you don't alienate yourself from the large percentage of idiot American voters.

King Crimson

6/18/2008, 01:11 PM

JohnnyMack

6/18/2008, 01:16 PM

Sooner_Havok

6/18/2008, 01:20 PM

it's a slippery slope to posit there was some "good old days" when American democracy was devoid of the manipulation of image and (increasingly these days) images themselves and compare it to the "corrupt" present. particularly when there is nostalgia for the Reagan presidency.

There were no good ole days. But our system served its purpose when we had a larger proportion of uneducated hillbillies, and no form of fast communication.

Now the flaws in our system are being exposed more and more. Don't get me wrong, our system is still leaps and bounds over others.

yermom

6/18/2008, 01:25 PM

Obama has the Muslim vote anyway

Sooner_Havok

6/18/2008, 01:29 PM

Obama has the Muslim vote anyway

Duh, they told him that at the secret Muslim meeting :D

TopDawg

6/18/2008, 02:29 PM

So, to recap, it is acceptable to compromise your avowed principles to get elected. Got it. And for the record, IMHO, that's one of the biggest things wrong with American politics, donk or pub.

So, to recap, it is acceptable to start a thread outlining the failings of one political party when you realize and openly admit that the other party is guilty of the same? IMHO, that's one of the biggest things wrong with political discussions in the South Oval.

;)

Okla-homey

6/18/2008, 02:37 PM

So, to recap, it is acceptable to start a thread outlining the failings of one political party when you realize and openly admit that the other party is guilty of the same? IMHO, that's one of the biggest things wrong with political discussions in the South Oval.

;)

I don't make the news, I just observe it. And for the record, if JSM flips on immigration as I'm sure he'll be tempted to do, I'll point it out.

TopDawg

6/18/2008, 02:37 PM

I don't make the news, I just observe it.

...and then choose which bits of news to start threads about.

I'm not saying this isn't worth discussing...the image v. principles issue...but to frame an issue in a "look at what the other guys are doing" way when you know that "your" guys are doing it too is, IMHO, one of the things that's wrong with political discussion in the South Oval.

Ike

6/19/2008, 01:43 AM

...and then choose which bits of news to start threads about.

I'm not saying this isn't worth discussing...the image v. principles issue...but to frame an issue in a "look at what the other guys are doing" way when you know that "your" guys are doing it too is, IMHO, one of the things that's wrong with political discussion in the South Oval.

It's not just political discussion on the SO. The same discussion "tactics" (for the record, I hate calling this a tactic) are widely used by CNN, Fox, and every other 24 hour "news channel" (for the record, I hate calling them news channels). It's the "Bad things are important when people we don't like do them, but not newsworthy, or excusable, when people we like do them" thing, and it's all the rage on TV these days. I think some colleges even teach classes on this technique in the journalism departments now.

LosAngelesSooner

6/19/2008, 02:53 AM

You anti-Obama types would be making 100x the fuss over this if he had been seen in a picture WITH them...:rolleyes:

SicEmBaylor

6/19/2008, 03:37 AM

weak sauce. Actions of campaign staffers are generally attributable to their candidate. Of course, this is the Messiah of America we're talking about, so we'll give him a pass. Change.

I've worked on a lot of campaigns. A lot.
The candidates themselves are almost never ever bothered by this kind of trivial crap unless they have serious micro-management issues.

SicEmBaylor

6/19/2008, 04:23 AM

Having said that, the candidate is ultimately responsible for the conduct of his campaign.

Jerk

6/19/2008, 05:40 AM

Imagine if McCain had done this.

The same people here trying to justify what Obama did would be outraged.

swardboy

6/19/2008, 06:18 AM

So:
McCain....no muslim support
Obama....muslim support
Hey, I report, you decide!

Okla-homey

6/19/2008, 06:52 AM

So:
McCain....no muslim support
Obama....muslim support
Hey, I report, you decide!

Therefore, Obama is preferred by America-haters. Alrighty then.;)

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 10:33 AM

Therefore, Obama is preferred by America-haters. Alrighty then.;)

So if he's elected, maybe they'll stop hating America.

Frozen Sooner

6/19/2008, 10:35 AM

OK, doublespeak truethink this week is that the Muslims like him.

Can someone keep a scoreboard for me?

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 10:35 AM

It's not just political discussion on the SO. The same discussion "tactics" (for the record, I hate calling this a tactic) are widely used by CNN, Fox, and every other 24 hour "news channel" (for the record, I hate calling them news channels). It's the "Bad things are important when people we don't like do them, but not newsworthy, or excusable, when people we like do them" thing, and it's all the rage on TV these days. I think some colleges even teach classes on this technique in the journalism departments now.

I hope you're either kidding or wrong with that last sentence. The fact that I'm not sure on both counts speaks volumes about what you said in the rest of the post.

JohnnyMack

6/19/2008, 10:50 AM

The fact that I'm not sure on both counts speaks volumes about what you said in the rest of the post.

If I had a nickel for every time I've said that about one of Ike's posts...

OklahomaTuba

6/19/2008, 10:53 AM

So I guess this means he won't be wearing his fathers clothes at any campaign events??
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_04/BaracKOsamaAP_228x384.jpg

OklahomaTuba

6/19/2008, 10:54 AM

You anti-Obama types would be making 100x the fuss over this if he had been seen in a picture WITH them...:rolleyes:
Heh.

yermom

6/19/2008, 10:57 AM

you mean like picture i just posted?

fixed

Ike

6/19/2008, 12:07 PM

I hope you're either kidding or wrong with that last sentence. The fact that I'm not sure on both counts speaks volumes about what you said in the rest of the post.

I was kidding. And I hope I'm wrong too. But I really can't be sure.

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 12:29 PM

I was kidding. And I hope I'm wrong too. But I really can't be sure.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to find that style or reporting...if not taught, at least practiced without discouragement...at some journalism schools throughout the country.

King Crimson

6/19/2008, 12:38 PM

within limits, the J schools around the country teach the same thing they always teach: ethics, "writing", blah blah, with an increasing nod towards media related fields like PR, advertising, marketing, etc. and new communication technologies.

the perversions are those dictated at the professional level where "news" is subject to profit margin, ratings, and consumer demand no different than any other form of entertainment. it's almost pointless to scapegoat a bogey-man called "the media" when it's a consumer, ratings driven model.

if people didn't watch the garbage, it wouldn't be on. supply and demand. the enemy is us (consumers, citizens, whatever) not some objectified category called "those other people" or the "masses".

sadly, "real news" is just one market choice among many...and not a very profitable one. it's a lot cheaper to produce punditry, than hire and support investigative journalists.

Ike

6/19/2008, 12:56 PM

it's a lot cheaper to produce punditry, than hire and support investigative journalists.

Opinions are like ***holes. Everyones got one. With that kind of supply, you don't need to pay em much.

r5TPsooner

6/19/2008, 01:09 PM

Imagine if McCain had done this.

The same people here trying to justify what Obama did would be outraged.

Yep, the same could be said if McCain set in his church for twenty years listening to racist and bigot type slurs against minorities. Do you honestly think that McCain would still even be in the race if his church had done that?

Obama should be thankful that the double standard is on his side right now. I just hope that informed Americans will see him for what he is in the end.

Bourbon St Sooner

6/19/2008, 01:23 PM

if people didn't watch the garbage, it wouldn't be on. supply and demand. the enemy is us (consumers, citizens, whatever) not some objectified category called "those other people" or the "masses".

Huh, I thought the enemy was the oil companies.

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 01:49 PM

Yep, the same could be said if McCain set in his church for twenty years listening to racist and bigot type slurs against minorities.

I know some McCain supporters who sit in those types of churches. Just different words aimed at different groups.

OklahomaTuba

6/19/2008, 05:01 PM

I know some McCain supporters who sit in those types of churches. Just different words aimed at different groups.
But since Obama is a lib, it's ok and you will have no problem voting for him.

Gotcha.

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 05:22 PM

But since Obama is a lib, it's ok and you will have no problem voting for him.

Gotcha.

Yes*...which is why I didn't bring up the issue in the first place. See, that's kinda been one of the themes of my posts in this thread...it's dumb for one side to point fingers at the other side when their side does it too. I was just informing r5tp that his hypothetical situation might not have been quite as hypothetical as he intended. That the same people who decry the double standard for Obama have created one of their own.

"It's okay when my church says something about people who aren't like me, but when Obama's church says something about people who are like me, that's not okay."

And because I know some of you will want to take it down this road...this is by no means a statement in defense of what is said from the pulpit of Obama's church. I wasn't there, I didn't hear it, I don't know the context so I'm not going to defend it. But I do know what I've heard from the pulpits of churches full of McCain supporters...and from their own mouths. I don't know what comes out of McCain's pulpit...I was just stating that it's not as if the Republicans are double-standard-free on this issue.

*Actually, that isn't the reason...but for the purposes of this thread...whatever.

OklahomaTuba

6/19/2008, 05:40 PM

That's some crazee logic right there man.

I always thought hate should be punished, not rewarded. Obviously, we do not agree on this philosophy.

IF it were McCain that had been there for 20+ years, I wouldn't vote for him, Evar.

yermom

6/19/2008, 05:51 PM

McCain's buddy in Texas is pretty bat**** crazy as well

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 05:56 PM

That's some crazee logic right there man.

I always thought hate should be punished, not rewarded. Obviously, we do not agree on this philosophy.

So one post after I say "this is by no means a statement in defense of what is said from the pulpit of Obama's church" you accuse me of rewarding what was said.

All I'm saying is that it seems like this is what is happening:

Person 1: Can you believe the hate that comes from Obama's pulpit? There is such a double standard with him.

Person 2: I know people who support McCain who preach hateful sermons. Isn't it a double standard for people who listen to hateful sermons to criticize Obama for doing the same thing?

Look, I don't know what kind of sermons r5tp listens to...or even if he listens to them (sorry if you've expressed that r5tp)...I'm just saying that there are hateful sermons coming from both sides of the aisle. It's quite unfortunate...but it's also silly to pretend like Obama's the only one who puts up with hateful sermons and it would be a double standard for someone to criticize Obama for doing it when they do it themselves (again...not saying that such is the case with r5tp...just that I KNOW it's the case with some McCain supporters).

OklahomaTuba

6/19/2008, 05:58 PM

McCain's buddy in Texas is pretty bat**** crazy as well

Hagee might be a fruit bat, but he is no Rev. Wright, that's for sure.

Hagee's harshest terms seem to be towards other Christians anyway, like Catholics and such. I don't recall him making any racist remarks or preaching about how bad America is, etc.

Nor did McCain sit in front of him for 20+ years.

mdklatt

6/19/2008, 05:59 PM

McCain's buddy in Texas is pretty bat**** crazy as well

But he didn't go to his church for 20 years!

He only sought out his endorsement after telling all the bat**** crazy televangelists to **** off back during the 2000 campaign.

Will the real McNasty please stand up, please stand up?

mdklatt

6/19/2008, 06:01 PM

Nor did McCain sit in front of him for 20+ years.

But he didn't go to his church for 20 years!

Juuuust missed it.

SicEmBaylor

6/19/2008, 06:10 PM

Hagee might be a fruit bat, but he is no Rev. Wright, that's for sure.

Hagee's harshest terms seem to be towards other Christians anyway, like Catholics and such. I don't recall him making any racist remarks or preaching about how bad America is, etc.

Nor did McCain sit in front of him for 20+ years.

I believe Hagee doesn't consider Catholics to be Christian.
I may be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure it's the case.
\

mdklatt

6/19/2008, 06:13 PM

I believe Hagee doesn't consider Catholics to be Christian.

That's some pretty interesting theology, since Peter was the first Catholic and all. :D

SicEmBaylor

6/19/2008, 06:15 PM

That's some pretty interesting theology, since Peter was the first Catholic and all. :D

I know. But the principle that Catholics are not Christians is pretty prevalent especially among the far-right evangelical type.

Ike

6/19/2008, 06:16 PM

That's some pretty interesting theology, since Peter was the first Catholic and all. :D

I'm sure if Hagee considers himself to be a christian, that most catholics are a bit relieved that he does not consider catholics to be christians.

TopDawg

6/19/2008, 06:17 PM

I believe Hagee doesn't consider Catholics to be Christian.
I may be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure it's the case.
\

I think he also said that Jews have dead souls.

Who gets to tell Jesus?

soonerscuba

6/19/2008, 06:44 PM

I think he also said that Jews have dead souls.
That is why they are able to shapeshift.

Sooner_Havok

6/19/2008, 07:08 PM

ErC1IJeHnyc

LosAngelesSooner

6/20/2008, 05:03 PM

Hagee might be a fruit bat, but he is no Rev. Wright, that's for sure.

Hagee's harshest terms seem to be towards other Christians anyway, like Catholics and such. I don't recall him making any racist remarks or preaching about how bad America is, etc.

Nor did McCain sit in front of him for 20+ years.
Dude...as long as you refer to the U.S.A. as the U.S. of KKK you will remain an unpatriotic embarrasment and insult to our great nation.

How dare you preach racism like that. You should be ashamed.

picasso

6/20/2008, 05:16 PM

hahaha, no comparison.

I'm not big on Old Fart John but that nut ball preacher in Texas didn't marry him and his wife and mentor him like Bobby Obama's.

burp.

good to see the **** is still deep around here.

TopDawg

6/20/2008, 06:07 PM

I'm not big on Old Fart John but that nut ball preacher in Texas didn't marry him and his wife and mentor him like Bobby Obama's.

Which is why it's even more bizarre that McCain welcomes his controversial support. Kinda begs the question: hypocrisy, or just savvy campaigning?

r5TPsooner

6/20/2008, 06:14 PM

I know some McCain supporters who sit in those types of churches. Just different words aimed at different groups.

The key words in your post are "McCain supporters" and not the man himself.

Nice try though, come back and play again.:rolleyes:

TopDawg

6/20/2008, 06:59 PM

The key words in your post are "McCain supporters" and not the man himself.

Nice try though, come back and play again.:rolleyes:

Oh no...not the rolleyes!

I know what the key words are and I went out of my way to make that clear.

Apparently, though, the man himself doesn't have a problem with pastors who preach hateful messages...as long as they are about the right people.

mdklatt

6/20/2008, 07:16 PM

Apparently, though, the man himself doesn't have a problem with pastors who preach hateful messages...as long as they are about the right people.

Actually, Johnny Mac threw Hagee under the bus a coupla weeks ago, based on the "God sent Hitler to test the Jews" stuff. The problem is that Hagee has been saying that for awhile, and this is the first McCain had heard of it? Nope, not buying it. What really happened is that there was finally enough heat to make Hagee more of a political liability than an asset.

TopDawg

6/20/2008, 07:19 PM

Ok, I thought I'd heard something about that recently but I thought this might be an on-again-off-again kinda thing.

I'm glad to know he's disassociated himself with Hagee. THAT is some savvy campaigning!*

*And, IMO, the right thing to do...even if it was a little late.