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achiro
6/18/2008, 11:10 AM
This is the thread to tell us why we should vote for him.
A couple of things not allowed.
No bashing Bush and talking about McCain being a 3rd term. In fact leave McCain out of it all together, let me know whats good about Obama's policies, not whats bad about McCains.
No using vague terms like, "change"

I want to know the nitty gritty here.

SoonerInKCMO
6/18/2008, 11:13 AM
He wants to impose the SS tax on income over $250k; if that is enacted and kept in place for the rest of my life, there might actually be some money there for me when I retire.

I'd rather the $104k-$250k 'doughnut' not be left out though.

kbsooner21
6/18/2008, 11:48 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there won't be many replies in this thread :D

SoonerInKCMO
6/18/2008, 11:51 AM
A commitment to renewable energy. His target percentages and timelines aren't as aggressive as I would like to see but they're a good starting point.

Frozen Sooner
6/18/2008, 12:08 PM
Support for universal health care.

Support for education that goes beyond unfunded mandates.

Support for student loan forgiveness for those in public service.

Respect for the rule of law.

JohnnyMack
6/18/2008, 12:10 PM
I think our foreign policy as it relates to the middle east sucks. It is my opinion that we have for too long made poor decisions when it comes to that region.

I happen to be opposed to the extent to which we continue to support Israel. This doesn't mean I'm anti-semitic or that I'm pro-Islam, if you've paid attention to my posts at all you know that I think religion in all forms, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Sufism, Scientology whatever is stupid and that it limits our ability to advance on a global scale. That being said, for us to ally ourselves on one side with Israel and still want to pull oil out of the ground of neighboring Islamic countries is one of the main reasons we are in the position we find ourselves in today in regards to Iraq and the mutually exclusive War on Terror. This War on Terror grew out of that region's disdain for our policies that I mentioned earlier. We can't continue to have our cake and eat it too. Whether or not you want to believe it, there is a reason 19 terrorists hijacked planes and murder thousands of civilians. You don't have to accept or agree with the reason, but make no mistake it wasn't an arbitrary decision made by Al Qaida. They didn't fly planes into the sides of buildings in Sweden or Peru, they did it to us for a reason.

That being said I have long been a proponent of increasing the amount of resources directed at smashing Al Qaida and all along wanted to stay out of Iraq. Iraq is another failed effort at nation building and beyond the rhetoric of allowing these people to be free and to allow democracy to flourish, to me it stinks of Imperialism. An effort to establish a massive military base and embassy in a land that is rich in natural resources that our government seems inept at providing itself and a buffer zone to the aforementioned ally Israel.

I like the idea of scaling back our presence in the middle east altogether. I think we should phase ourselves out of Iraq and allow those people to have a go at governing themselves. If it ends in failure, it ends in failure, but our continued presence there only serves to stoke the fires of anger that the true power brokers in the region use to incite the masses into a hysterical anger towards the U.S. I don't think diplomacy is a dirty word. I feel like Obama has an attitude that is similar to this and that he's the candidate most likely to initiate a different mentality when it comes to that region. I feel like he's more likely to reach out and make an effort not at peace (these people have been killing each other for millenniums now) but at a better understanding of what the Islamic world wants from us and what we can do to get the Grand Ayatollahs to understand that they need to call off the dogs. If we had asserted to the right amount of force and directed it at the right enemy I think by this point we'd have a different situation over there.

soonerscuba
6/18/2008, 12:30 PM
Because he is the candidate I would most like to have a beer with.

Because his lapel pin is the most shiny of all the candidates.

Because he travels mostly by forklift.

Because he is the color of American soil.

Because whether you agree with him or not, you know what you are getting.

Because he makes decisions "from the gut".

Because his religion is the same as mine.

soonerscuba
6/18/2008, 12:38 PM
And for realsies, because he has a commitment to getting us out of Iraq, scaling down our support for Israel, universal health care, and quite honestly because he is going to raise taxes. Generally, if policy isn't worth paying for, it probably isn't worth implementing, people say tax and spend as if it's a bad thing.

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 12:50 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there won't be many replies in this thread :D

It's longer than the McCain thread so far. :pop:

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/18/2008, 12:51 PM
And for realsies, because he has a commitment to getting us out of Iraq, scaling down our support for Israel, universal health care, and quite honestly because he is going to raise taxes. Generally, if policy isn't worth paying for, it probably is worth implementing, people say tax and spend as if it's a bad thing.Before you edit it!

soonerscuba
6/18/2008, 12:53 PM
Before you edit it!
Shuckey darn, you caught me in a simple mistype, good jorb. At least you are responding to someone other than yourself.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/18/2008, 12:57 PM
Shuckey darn, you caught me in a simple mistype, good jorb. At least you are responding to someone other than yourself.I was talking about the thoughts, not the mistype. The best to you, too.

Sooner_Havok
6/18/2008, 01:02 PM
Why would scuba edit his thoughts? Maybe he was thinking you would add "Cause I want the terrorists to win." I don't get him, ever.

soonerscuba
6/18/2008, 01:04 PM
I was talking about the thoughts, not the mistype. The best to you, too.
Meh, I fully realize that no one could ever, ever run that as a platform, and ideally I would pay for the Iraq war by stealing their oil, but that ain't happening, so that pretty much only leaves two options. The first is the raise taxes and pay it off at a lower amount of interest, the second is the Boomer mentality of shucking it off to the kids. I know which I prefer, regardless if it's a bit more painful in the short-term,

As for Israel, why should I care about their country to the tune of billions of dollars? That doesn't mean that I am an anti-Semite, I just don't think ANY industrialized country is worth that subsidy.

The rest are pretty commonly held positions.

yermom
6/18/2008, 01:06 PM
It's longer than the McCain thread so far. :pop:

maybe it was too restrictive...

it's an honest question

Sooner_Havok
6/18/2008, 01:16 PM
Why I will vote for Obama

Has a plan for SS that might mean I get to see some of my money again

Will consider a withdraw from Iraq

Will hold talks with states not currently friendly to the US and our interests (Diplomacy is not a four letter word.)

Wants to rework NAFTA

His stance on global climate change and his energy policy

Reasons why I might not vote for Obama

His gun control record is concerning

I don't support the idea of universal health care (though I do think his plan is better than Hillary's or any other serious donk POTUS candidate for that matter)

I don't like the enlarging the federal governent

He is pretty inexperienced compared to the other POTUS cadidate

TopDawg
6/18/2008, 02:19 PM
He is pretty inexperienced compared to the other POTUS cadidate

Given the state of politics in this nation, his inexperience might be a good thing.

Chuck Bao
6/18/2008, 02:29 PM
Thank you Achiro for this thread. If we can keep the thread from degenerating into name calling and silly email slanderous stuff that would be such a huge improvement.

I will vote for Obama because he does offer real “change”.

Obama will be much tougher in dealing with foreign trade partners who continue to rack up huge trade surpluses with the US while stubbornly pegging their currencies to the US dollar at favorable rates.

Obama appears to get the point that rising health care costs is one of the main reasons that American workers are being priced out in the increasingly global economy.

Obama is less likely to cater to large US corporations who continue to ask for tax breaks and favorable legislation, while simultaneously moving jobs overseas.

Obama has not surrounded himself with “former” lobbyists who have recently represented foreign governments.

Obama is least likely to continue to forge US foreign policy around protecting American (corporate) interests abroad.

Obama is not as likely to continue to coddle China and its aggressive foreign ambitions for the sake of the American corporate sector.

Obama is more likely to forge a global and workable coalition against terrorism, rather than the current administration’s policy of a unilateral and global cop approach.

Hopefully, Obama gets the history lesson that a military power is dependent on economic power. His rival has not shown that he gets the new global economy despite his much longer tenure in the Senate.

So in short, Obama stands for “change” and change is good.

imjebus
6/18/2008, 03:45 PM
Obama has not surrounded himself with “former” lobbyists who have recently represented foreign governments.

.

Question: Does who he has surrounded himself with bother you in any way?

I keep hearing about the people he has associated with and they don't seem like the kind of people I would surround myself with.

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 03:54 PM
I keep hearing about the people he has associated with and they don't seem like the kind of people I would surround myself with.

Neither campaign will go down that road if they're smart. A successful politician is a dirty politician, there's no way around it. I don't think either candidate is personally corrupt, but they've both laid down with swine.

Chuck Bao
6/18/2008, 04:08 PM
Question: Does who he has surrounded himself with bother you in any way?

I keep hearing about the people he has associated with and they don't seem like the kind of people I would surround myself with.


The answer to your question, imjebus, is yes. Official advisors recommending policy who have formerly lobbied on behalf of foreign governments would bother me a great deal.

I think that's why Obama's rival had to recently distance himself from a number of his key advisors.

And, I'm glad to hear that you would not associate with Washington insiders. Good for you.

achiro
6/18/2008, 04:16 PM
The answer to your question, imjebus, is yes. Official advisors recommending policy who have formerly lobbied on behalf of foreign governments would bother me a great deal.

I think that's why Obama's rival had to recently distance himself from a number of his key advisors.

And, I'm glad to hear that you would not associate with Washington insiders. Good for you.

FOUL! Your bringing in the why the other guy is bad instead of why my guy is good stuff, keep it on topic buddy!;)

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 04:19 PM
FOUL! Your bringing in the why the other guy is bad instead of why my guy is good stuff, keep it on topic buddy!;)

If we have to actually start voting for somebody instead of trying to pick the lesser of two evils I'm just going to give up voting altogether.

badger
6/18/2008, 04:23 PM
I will reserve final judgment on Obama until he picks a running mate. As he stands right now, I can say without doubt that the wrong running mate will ensure election failure.

soonerscuba
6/18/2008, 04:26 PM
I'm looking forward to this election because I am voting for Obama, and if McCain wins, I look forward to seeing what he can do as well. Regardless, I am looking forward to an executive that doesn't torture people.

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 04:32 PM
Regardless, I am looking forward to an executive that doesn't torture people.

Hasn't McCain flip-flopped on that?

badger
6/18/2008, 04:41 PM
Hasn't McCain flip-flopped on that?

I remember McCain on this. He said that America has to tell the world that Americans do not torture.

Himself being a POW at one point, I think he knows what torture is like and how useless it is.

yermom
6/18/2008, 04:43 PM
yermom may be confused

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 04:50 PM
I remember McCain on this. He said that America has to tell the world that Americans do not torture.


I remember this, but when did he say it? It's no big surprise that he was a critic of Bush's handling of the Iraq war...until about the time he announced his candidacy.

achiro
6/18/2008, 04:52 PM
he also said that waterboarding isn't torture though

Link? because I always thought he said it was.

Oh and FOUL!!! FOUL!!! FOUL!!!! Get back on topic or...
or...
or...

I'll yell FOUL again!

TexasLidig8r
6/18/2008, 04:59 PM
What is Obama's stance on the United States' participation in the United Nations? After all, didn't Saddam Hussein flaunt the UN's decrees on "oil for food" by having hundreds of millions of dollars flow to and from France and Russia and thus, flaunt this program? Also, didn't Hussein prevent UN weapons inspectors access to all areas, again, flaunting decrees passed by the UN? So, is he a strong proponent of the UN?

As for universal health care.. where does he proposed the funding come from to pay for this system? And, hasn't it been proven that the countries who have implemented universal health care have some of the greatest issues regarding the timing and quality of services provided? Finally, if taxes are to be raised on the wealthier classes and corporations to pay for the funding of the universal health care system, what constitutional or statutory authority can be utilized to justify this type of taxation?

yermom
6/18/2008, 04:59 PM
i could have sworn i saw something about him changing his tune on that, but it might have just been him being against that bill on it a few months ago

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 05:07 PM
As for universal health care.. where does he proposed the funding come from to pay for this system?

Well for starters, it's cheaper to pay for somebody's $100 doctor visit than their $1000 ER visit. Also, increasing the number of insureds in the pool decreases the average cost to cover each insured. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns for that, but I don't know where it is.

soonerscuba
6/18/2008, 05:09 PM
He took the Dan Boren approach. He voted against making the CIA beholden to the Army Field Manual, but he is still against waterboarding. So while he is against it, he votes to allow it to continue. If that makes sense.

Chuck Bao
6/18/2008, 05:10 PM
FOUL! Your bringing in the why the other guy is bad instead of why my guy is good stuff, keep it on topic buddy!;)


I gave my positive answers already. I was just answering a question related to one of my answers. And, my chief point wasn't why you shouldn't vote for the other guy, but why lobbyists representing foreign governments shouldn't serve as advisors.

Scott D
6/18/2008, 05:18 PM
I don't.

Harry Beanbag
6/18/2008, 05:27 PM
If we have to actually start voting for somebody instead of trying to pick the lesser of two evils I'm just going to give up voting altogether.


Join me in my Toby Keith write in campaign then. :texan:

mdklatt
6/18/2008, 05:37 PM
Join me in my Toby Keith write in campaign then. :texan:

Double meh.

def_lazer_fc
6/18/2008, 07:25 PM
Join me in my Toby Keith write in campaign then. :texan:

i could never vote for someone who serves such ****ty overpriced food.

Rogue
6/18/2008, 07:38 PM
I'll probably vote for BO because I generally prefer the more liberal candidate.

One of his biggest upsides, to me, is his committment to PAYGO.

I get pretty medieval about my guns, but neither guy has a good record from this gun owner's perspective so that's a wash.

I agree with paying taxes for government initiatives that I agree with.
I believe he won't start or continue unneccesary military action.

He voted against invading Iraq and supports chasing down terr'ists like OBL in Afghanistan. That just sounds sensible to me.

Universal healthcare was a good idea 40 years ago and it still is.

His funding is NOT coming from PACs.

He probably saved our country from another 4-8 years of complete divisiveness by beating Hillary.

C&CDean
6/18/2008, 08:57 PM
I'ma vote for him cause he looks like Tiger. Except he's got good knees. I think.

That's pretty much the best the boys' got to offer. He pretty. And he talk good. Us smart folk gonna vote for him.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/18/2008, 11:53 PM
I'll probably vote for BO because I generally prefer the more liberal candidate.

One of his biggest upsides, to me, is his committment to PAYGO.

I get pretty medieval about my guns, but neither guy has a good record from this gun owner's perspective so that's a wash.

I agree with paying taxes for government initiatives that I agree with.
I believe he won't start or continue unneccesary military action.

He voted against invading Iraq and supports chasing down terr'ists like OBL in Afghanistan. That just sounds sensible to me.

Universal healthcare was a good idea 40 years ago and it still is.

His funding is NOT coming from PACs.

He probably saved our country from another 4-8 years of complete divisiveness by beating Hillary.IN on your prayer request!

Blue
6/18/2008, 11:59 PM
He gives a hell of a speech. He's got the sci-fi geek vote wrapped up.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OrOkYkXOZoY&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OrOkYkXOZoY&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

12
6/19/2008, 12:05 AM
When they make a movie about him, who will play his part?

I vote Nick Nolte.

def_lazer_fc
6/19/2008, 12:06 AM
josh brolin?

Rogue
6/19/2008, 06:27 PM
Not sure yet what to make of the declination of public financing deal. On the surface it doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?

soonerscuba
6/19/2008, 06:40 PM
Not sure yet what to make of the declination of public financing deal. On the surface it doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?
Yes, it was a hypocritical thing to do. I get the logic, but "parallel public financing" via his website as to why he is already public funded, really? McCain will and should be all over this.

Chuck Bao
6/19/2008, 07:18 PM
This is the most important election in our lifetime and a clear cut choice between a workable future and a morally and fiscally bankrupt past (not naming a certain administration).

Sooner_Havok
6/19/2008, 07:22 PM
This is the most important election in our lifetime and a clear cut choice between a workable future and a morally and fiscally bankrupt past (not naming a certain administration).

No need, we all know who you are referencing. What is with all this William Howard Taft bashing?

Scott D
6/19/2008, 07:22 PM
This is the most important election in our lifetime and a clear cut choice between a workable future and a morally and fiscally bankrupt past (not naming a certain administration).

that describes every 4 years...every 6 for the senate.

Sooner_Havok
6/19/2008, 07:31 PM
that describes every 4 years...every 6 for the senate.

Yeah, but America chose wrong in 02.

AggieTool
6/19/2008, 07:41 PM
'Cuz he's gonna pimp out Air Farce One with spinners and FX.

Scott D
6/19/2008, 07:56 PM
Yeah, but America chose wrong in 02.

America has chosen wrong more than just in 2002.

mdklatt
6/19/2008, 08:03 PM
America has chosen wrong more than just in 2002.

I think he meant to say "every 2 years".

Sooner_Havok
6/19/2008, 08:05 PM
America has chosen wrong more than just in 2002.

1992, 1976, 1964, 1960, 1948, 1944, 1940, 1936, 1932 ?

Scott D
6/19/2008, 08:07 PM
I think he meant to say "every 2 years".

nah I know havoc well enough to know he meant 2002. :)


1992, 1976, 1964, 1960, 1948, 1944, 1940, 1936, 1932 ?

probably more frequently than that.

Sooner_Havok
6/19/2008, 08:12 PM
nah I know havoc well enough to know he meant 2002. :)


:D