protesters at funeral

[OU4LIFE]

The 'Flags at half staff' thread reminded me of this. Today is the Funeral of Major Scott Hagerty, it's in Stillwater. A protest group out of Kansas has filed for a permit to stage a protest. The Patriot Guard is also here, to help deter the protesters.

My question is to those of you on here that might be of the camp that protests the war. What are you thinking? How, exactly, is disrespecting this patriot funeral furthering your cause? What exactly do you hope to gain? Do you somehow feel that dishonoring this mans funeral will stop the war?

Rumor here is that they are forced to protest at a certain spot, and the fire department is planning on bringing in the big trucks and parking them in between the protesters and the procession.

Srsly, this sort of goes all through me. Go protest on the steps of the capital, but give this man and his family the damned respect they deserve.

[soonerhubs]

In. I'm going at 11 to hold a flag on the side of the road.

[OUDoc]

Srsly, this sort of goes all through me. Go protest on the steps of the capital, but give this man and his family the damned respect they deserve.

Me, too. It's just pathetic to protest at a funeral. They all need to get their asses beaten.
Was that out loud?

[sooner_born_1960]

THey should park the firetrucks on the protesters.

[soonerhubs]

Me, too. It's just pathetic to protest at a funeral. They all need to get their asses beaten.
Was that out loud?

I've said to myself over and over again to show propriety if one of those *** clowns comes near me. I've concluded a stone cold non reaction is the best bet. This man gave his life for his family and for his country, and God will bless him in the next life as we all attempt to honor him in this one.

[olevetonahill]

Me, too. It's just pathetic to protest at a funeral. They all need to get their asses beaten.
Was that out loud?

A few Months back Dean cruised By a Funeral in OKC said they where just a few of the Nut jobs and they were so far away from everything .
IIRC

[imjebus]

They were at a funeral here in Enid a few months back. This town came out in huge numbers to honor the soldier.

[frankensooner]

I think you have to be related and/or married into the Fred Phelps family to want to protest.

[Frozen Sooner]

My question is to those of you on here that might be of the camp that protests the war. What are you thinking? How, exactly, is disrespecting this patriot funeral furthering your cause? What exactly do you hope to gain? Do you somehow feel that dishonoring this mans funeral will stop the war?

In order:

1. That while the right to free assembly is protected under the First Amendment, anyone who uses the funeral of a soldier to make a political point is an asshat.

2. It doesn't.

3. Attention, I assume.

4. If the people who have filed for the permit "out of Kansas" are who I think they are, I don't think they care one way or another about ending the war.

[12]

They all need to get their asses beaten.
Was that out loud?

Why don't you hate fags?

Seriously, I think most everyone on this board agrees that a protest at ANY funeral is in rotten taste. The fact that he died SERVING OUR COUNTRY makes it beyond repulsive.

[soonerbrat]

I really wish I could go today...I didn't know the guy but he is a friend of the family. I'd go hold a flag if I could.

[r5TPsooner]

The 'Flags at half staff' thread reminded me of this. Today is the Funeral of Major Scott Hagerty, it's in Stillwater. A protest group out of Kansas has filed for a permit to stage a protest. The Patriot Guard is also here, to help deter the protesters.

My question is to those of you on here that might be of the camp that protests the war. What are you thinking? How, exactly, is disrespecting this patriot funeral furthering your cause? What exactly do you hope to gain? Do you somehow feel that dishonoring this mans funeral will stop the war?

Rumor here is that they are forced to protest at a certain spot, and the fire department is planning on bringing in the big trucks and parking them in between the protesters and the procession.

Srsly, this sort of goes all through me. Go protest on the steps of the capital, but give this man and his family the damned respect they deserve.



Because some people can't help but be morons. The disrespect that these folks show is simply amazing to me.

This country really is losing its moral compass IMO.

[GottaHavePride]

It's not the country, it's Fred ****ing Phelps, who needs to die in a fire. they protest soldiers' funerals because they think our soldiers getting killed is God's way of punishing us all for tolerating homosexuals. They also claimed we brought 9/11 on ourselves by tolerating homosexuals. Hence their "God Hates Fags" protest signs.

[r5TPsooner]

It's not the country, it's Fred ****ing Phelps, who needs to die in a fire. they protest soldiers' funerals because they think our soldiers getting killed is God's way of punishing us all for tolerating homosexuals. They also claimed we brought 9/11 on ourselves by tolerating homosexuals. Hence their "God Hates Fags" protest signs.



It's amazing how many people know how God feels about certain things.

[soonerbrat]

It's amazing how many people know how God feels about certain things.

one of my biggest pet peeves is the existence of signs around town that have a message on them signed "God"

how the hell can anyone even fathom doing something like that?

[StoopTroup]

Time for a...

THROAT PUNCH ! ! !

http://www.thekleinsmiths.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/thumb_punch-mouth.jpg

[badger]

I saw their press release on it yesterday... yes, they send press releases to advertise exactly where they're going to be.

As such, you should know exactly why they do it - for the publicity. There's no attention at the Capitol today, the media will be at the funeral. They want others to see their cause and the most prominent place for that is at soldier's funerals.

I think it is very clever that they are going to have Stilly fire trucks out to block them. If they wanted to be really clever, they'd get the OSU band out there to play military music to block any and all protest chanting that comes from the other side of the bus.

As much as it seems tacky and heartless, it is their right to protest, which this soldier fought and died for. To infringe on the freedoms at the guy's funeral would not be the right thing to do. To control said freedoms by fire trucking them? Perfect :)

RIP

[OU4LIFE]

I really wish I could go today...I didn't know the guy but he is a friend of the family. I'd go hold a flag if I could.

Me too. Major Hagerty's widow is my good friends daughter.

[OU4LIFE]

It's not the country, it's Fred ****ing Phelps, who needs to die in a fire. they protest soldiers' funerals because they think our soldiers getting killed is God's way of punishing us all for tolerating homosexuals. They also claimed we brought 9/11 on ourselves by tolerating homosexuals. Hence their "God Hates Fags" protest signs.

See I learned something today. All I saw was 'protest group from Kansas'...I just assumed it was protesting the war.

[stoopified]

People like that make me sick.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I think you have to be inbred into the Fred Phelps family to want to protest.

fixed

[Scott D]

I saw their press release on it yesterday... yes, they send press releases to advertise exactly where they're going to be.

As such, you should know exactly why they do it - for the publicity. There's no attention at the Capitol today, the media will be at the funeral. They want others to see their cause and the most prominent place for that is at soldier's funerals.

I think it is very clever that they are going to have Stilly fire trucks out to block them. If they wanted to be really clever, they'd get the OSU band out there to play military music to block any and all protest chanting that comes from the other side of the bus.

As much as it seems tacky and heartless, it is their right to protest, which this soldier fought and died for. To infringe on the freedoms at the guy's funeral would not be the right thing to do. To control said freedoms by fire trucking them? Perfect :)

RIP

actually, the best thing to do would be to ban the media from the funerals thereby invalidating the reason that ole Freddy Phelps and his brainwashed lunatics are there in the first place.

[badger]

actually, the best thing to do would be to ban the media from the funerals thereby invalidating the reason that ole Freddy Phelps and his brainwashed lunatics are there in the first place.

banning the media would be like banning the protesters. you can't ban the media or the protesters without banning everyone else.

[Scott D]

banning the media would be like banning the protesters. you can't ban the media or the protesters without banning everyone else.

actually, the family could under the auspices of it being a private matter. If enough families did it, it'd pretty much force Phelps to go back to taking his message to capital buildings where they could be ignored like they were before they jumped on the funeral bandwagon.

[badger]

actually, the family could under the auspices of it being a private matter. If enough families did it, it'd pretty much force Phelps to go back to taking his message to capital buildings where they could be ignored like they were before they jumped on the funeral bandwagon.

Ok, let me just shut down any and all hopes of this ever happening, because it won't.

First of all, sidewalks and streets are pubic right-of-ways. You can't ban anyone from setting up shop for several miles. It just wouldn't work and wouldn't happen. You need a natural disaster to keep people out of a town as it is, and that involves calling in the National Guard. They aren't going to call in that type of security for a funeral, especially during national disaster season.

Next, if you prevent this group from their constitutionally protected right to protest, you are going to generate sympathy for the wrong people. If you prevent the media from showing up, you will provide even more attention to these fringe protest groups than they already receive. As is, the media leaves the attention where it belongs - in the memory of the fallen soldiers and respect for their families.

Finally, I just want to say that I do not support this group whatsoever, because putting in bold letters "GOD HATES OKLAHOMA" is really stupid and doesn't encourage anyone to support your cause (except maybe diehard Texans?). However, this will not happen and I don't want you or anyone else getting your hopes up that it will happen. If there was a way of shutting this down or preventing it, it would already be discussed and in the works. Putting a fire truck up is going to work just fine.

[Scott D]

I'm not saying preventing them from protesting, I'm saying remove the object that gives them publicity in the first place. Then again, I'm in favor of executing the paparazzi alongside lawyers in my first moves to remove the scum of the earth from the planet. Respectful media will do their job a respectful distance away, ratings chasers however are *********s who give fools like Phelps a semblance of having a purpose in the public eye.

[badger]

I'm not saying preventing them from protesting, I'm saying remove the object that gives them publicity in the first place. Then again, I'm in favor of executing the paparazzi alongside lawyers in my first moves to remove the scum of the earth from the planet. Respectful media will do their job a respectful distance away, ratings chasers however are *********s who give fools like Phelps a semblance of having a purpose in the public eye.

Ok, to clarify, there is a way to prevent media and protesters alike from showing up: don't tell anyone when and where. When you publicly state the funeral location and time, you are accepting responsibility that the public may show up, even if they aren't allowed inside.

With the public announcement will likely come many good things, such as:
1- The governor declaring a statewide honor to the soldier's service by lowering all flags today.

2- More donations to the memorial fund.

3- More well wishers and friends reuniting to honor his memory.

4- A greater recognition of everything that a soldier's service stands for.

Unfortunately, you can't bite the hand that feeds you. Paparazzi are an after effect of the fame and glory that goes with being a celebrity.

You can't accept the public accolades and recognition that comes with a publicly-known soldier's funeral and at the same time ban the protesters and the media.

You can't have a public school district that accepts all talented, bright and athletic students in your district, but at the same time ban students in your district that are dumb and will lower your district's test scores.

You can't sell tickets to a public event like an Oklahoma Sooner football game to all rabid and lifelong Sooner fans, but at the same time ban sales of tickets to opposing fans or bandwagoners.

You can't host a public open audition for a show like American Idol that will bring you talents like Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson without expected thousands more who are far less talented and far more annoying to deal with.

The only way to prevent the protests is to also not accept everything good that comes along with publicity as well. When you accept the good, you must also take the bad.

[Animal Mother]

There is a documentary about Phelps and his fellow miscreants "Fall From Grace". It's been on Cinemax or one of those pay stations. My wife and I watched it. All kidding aside, this dude is mentally ill. The worst aspect of the whole cluster f**k is they brainwash their little children to get them to engage in this behavior.These 5 and 6 year old kids spout this garbage like they were memorizing 'If' by Rudyard Kipling. They're little robots programmed to be wackadoodles like their parents and the reverend(?) Phelps. The documentary is like watching a burning building. You can't stop and you just stare like a donkey at the horror of it all.

[mdklatt]

How illegal is it to beat the living **** out of somebody if they've provoked you? Is "they had it coming" at all a valid defense?

[OU4LIFE]

How illegal is it to beat the living **** out of somebody if they've provoked you? Is "they had it coming" at all a valid defense?

God hates your valid reason.

;)

[mdklatt]

God hates your valid reason.

;)


Even it that was technically illegal, would it matter? Say you get arrested for putting a beatdown on those idiots. Nothing fatal or permanant--okay, maybe some scarring. You'd be treated like royalty by the police, and probably everyone with you in the holding cell. You're certainly going to make bail. If ever there was a time for jury nullification, this would be it. No way they vote you guilty. Would the prosecutor even present a case? I imagine his opening remarks would be, "The State rests." Well, I guess he'd at least have to go through the motions just to preserve the integrity of the judicial system. The only question is if a judge can vacate a not guilty verdict, or even if he would in this case.

[badger]

Even it that was technically illegal, would it matter? Say you get arrested for putting a beatdown on those idiots. Nothing fatal or permanant--okay, maybe some scarring. You'd be treated like royalty by the police, and probably everyone with you in the holding cell. You're certainly going to make bail. If ever there was a time for jury nullification, this would be it. No way they vote you guilty. Would the prosecutor even present a case? I imagine his opening remarks would be, "The State rests." Well, I guess he'd at least have to go through the motions just to preserve the integrity of the judicial system. The only question is if a judge can vacate a not guilty verdict, or even if he would in this case.

Honestly, there is a way to avoid arrest - provoke them first. The tiniest shove or nudge is them provoking you, so either

1- Get them arrested, or
2- Self defense!

[Scott D]

Even it that was technically illegal, would it matter? Say you get arrested for putting a beatdown on those idiots. Nothing fatal or permanant--okay, maybe some scarring. You'd be treated like royalty by the police, and probably everyone with you in the holding cell. You're certainly going to make bail. If ever there was a time for jury nullification, this would be it. No way they vote you guilty. Would the prosecutor even present a case? I imagine his opening remarks would be, "The State rests." Well, I guess he'd at least have to go through the motions just to preserve the integrity of the judicial system. The only question is if a judge can vacate a not guilty verdict, or even if he would in this case.

probably because part of their schtick is they WANT you to do that, so that ole Freddy can put back on his lawyerin' hat and sue not only you, but the city/town that you do it in for violating their rights.

[mdklatt]

probably because part of their schtick is they WANT you to do that, so that ole Freddy can put back on his lawyerin' hat and sue not only you, but the city/town that you do it in for violating their rights.

Is there any situation where you wouldn't be guaranteed a jury trial? Because good luck finding 12 people not named "Phelps" to issue a verdict in his favor.

[Scott D]

Is there any situation where you wouldn't be guaranteed a jury trial? Because good luck finding 12 people not named "Phelps" to issue a verdict in his favor.

is winning a criminal case worth losing a civil case? Better yet, would the county/state follow through on the criminal case of exonerating you, with the spectre of being sued looming over both them and you?

[mdklatt]

is winning a criminal case worth losing a civil case? Better yet, would the county/state follow through on the criminal case of exonerating you, with the spectre of being sued looming over both them and you?

That's why I'm saying give jury nullification a try in both criminal and civil court. I know a judge can throw out a jury verdict if he thinks it isn't justified by the facts of the case, but is that true for any verdict or just an unfavorable verdict for the defendant?

[r5TPsooner]

Let me just say this... staging a protest at a funeral of a military hero and not even knowing them personally rates right up there with crimes against children in my books.

[Scott D]

I don't know, I'm not a lawyerin' type. I dislike their profession, remember.

[OUDoc]

is winning a criminal case worth losing a civil case? Better yet, would the county/state follow through on the criminal case of exonerating you, with the spectre of being sued looming over both them and you?

We need to focus on ways to help implement mdklatt's brilliant plan, not bicker over the details. :D

[Scott D]

We need to focus on ways to help implement mdklatt's brilliant plan, not bicker over the details. :D

best way to implement any plan regarding Phelps and his lunatics would be to sic the ATF on them :D

[OU4LIFE]

seems to me that the Patriot Guard is especially good at provoking them.

[soonerhubs]

Just got back from it. Amazing sight watching the motorcycles ride in. It was an honor to be there.

[olevetonahill]

Did you even see the Phelps bunch ?

[soonerhubs]

Not at the Graveside service where we were stationed holding flags. So who knows?

[12]

How many were out there (estimate) showing respect, hubler?

[soonerhubs]

How many were out there (estimate) showing respect, hubler?

I'm terrible with numbers, but Perkins road had folks on both sides holding flags, mounting flags on trucks, and even a crane had a flag raised. At the cemetery where we were stationed, the procession double parked filled the cemetery's road. Our church group lined the road with about 50 flags at the cemetery. Another church group lined the Funeral Parking lot with another 50.

Upon arriving back in Stillwater it was apparent to me that the city had been deluged with rain. The cemetery got only a few drops, and I should note that the weather was cool to the point of comfort while the North wind blue our flags horizontal.

The Patriot Guard Riders are amazing, the troops are amazing, and folks, this country, The United States of America is AMAZING! The funeral put things into perspective somewhat. How many times do I worry about petty things like expenses, disagreements, and politics? Wouldn't any of us forget these worries if we knew this day would be our last?

We are free to do so many things in this Nation under God because of men like the great Maj. Scott A. Haggerty. I never met him, but I thank God that he sent him to this earth. Olevet and any other soldiers out there that read this, May God Always bless and keep you. You are America's finest, and I'm humbled to have experienced what was today.

I didn't mean to go on a rant there, but sometimes I write what I feel because I hope others feel it too.