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Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 12:44 PM
Waddyathink about the Shawnee's bid to build a very nice Vegas-style comprehensive casino resort complex across the interstate from Frontier City?

I'm thinking it could be a very good thing for a part of your fair city that needs an economic infusion. A win-win as it were.

What say you?

StoopTroup
6/8/2008, 12:45 PM
BTW....Tulsa would still > than OKC whether it happens or not. :D

King Crimson
6/8/2008, 12:47 PM
i'm confused. Shawnee is not across I-35 from Frontier City, except if you are a fast flying crow. does the City of Shawnee own about 30 miles of land west of Shawnee?

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 12:49 PM
i'm confused. Shawnee is not across I-35 from Frontier City, except if you are a fast flying crow. does the City of Shawnee own about 30 miles of land west of Shawnee?

You're being intentionally silly. noted.

StoopTroup
6/8/2008, 12:50 PM
i'm confused. Shawnee is not across I-35 from Frontier City, except if you are a fast flying crow. does the City of Shawnee own about 30 miles of land west of Shawnee?

Yeah he lost me with that too...:D

King Crimson
6/8/2008, 12:51 PM
now i'm really confused. is that William Shatner in your avatar?

StoopTroup
6/8/2008, 12:54 PM
It's just another fake Attorney with a fazer.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 01:05 PM
now i'm really confused. is that William Shatner in your avatar?


It's my legal beau ideal, Denny Craine.

Flagstaffsooner
6/8/2008, 01:06 PM
WTF are you peeps talking about?

yermom
6/8/2008, 01:23 PM
is the Shawnee different than the Absentee Shawnee? i really have no idea

i'd like to see the casinos actually be like the ones in Vegas, with competitive payouts, banked games and free booze

i don't really see the point in the way they do it now, i think it's worse for the average gamer the way it is currently

Paperclip
6/8/2008, 01:25 PM
I would absolutely hate it.

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 01:29 PM
It would mean Riverwind won't be the goldmine it is now, so I wouldn't like it.

12
6/8/2008, 01:30 PM
Why not Bricktown? I realize real estate is a premium there, but think of the potential revenue.

Oh, and I'm not a casino dude.

yermom
6/8/2008, 01:34 PM
me and BRJ disagree on that one :D

Paperclip
6/8/2008, 01:40 PM
Why not Bricktown? I realize real estate is a premium there, but think of the potential revenue.

Oh, and I'm not a casino dude.

They've tried it before, but the Bricktown merchants didn't want it.

sooner_born_1960
6/8/2008, 01:42 PM
I care about it and the horse track it will aledgidly put out of business about equal.

yermom
6/8/2008, 02:02 PM
i care about the horse track about as much as i care about Aggie football

sooner_born_1960
6/8/2008, 02:07 PM
Oh yeah. Well, I care about Aggie football about as much as I care about soccer.

Flagstaffsooner
6/8/2008, 02:14 PM
Do any of you idiots actually go to these casinos?

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 02:15 PM
Do any of you idiots actually go to these casinos?

Only the ones with easy poker rooms. :texan:

yermom
6/8/2008, 02:18 PM
Do any of you idiots actually go to these casinos?

rarely.

the poker rooms are generally the only reason i'd go

i do like Blackjack and Pai Gow a bit, but the house edge is already bad enough, when you add commission to each hand, it's just not worth it

Newbomb Turk
6/8/2008, 02:18 PM
Do any of you idiots actually go to these casinos?

never been to a casino in my life.

Newbomb Turk
6/8/2008, 02:19 PM
I should neg Flag for calling us idiots.

Flagstaffsooner
6/8/2008, 02:24 PM
Only the ones with easy poker rooms. :texan:Im sorry, I would like a serious answer. What kind of moron would waste money at one of these rip off palaces?

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 02:29 PM
Im sorry, I would like a serious answer. What kind of moron would waste money at one of these rip off palaces?

Live poker ain't played against the house. I don't play games against the casino unless I'm playing with their money.

StoopTroup
6/8/2008, 02:36 PM
Flag...

I've had quite a bit of fun at Million Dollar Elm in North Tulsey.

Cherokee by the Port of Catoosa...you should be very careful there when you play IMO.

Creek Nation Casino on Riverside Drive...I've never had much luck at. They would be the rip-off place your talking about IMO.

Truely I have walked out of the M$Elm with a few thousand bucks more than once and I didn't have to spend much to get it either.

If you can't afford to play though...you shouldn't be there..... and there's a lot of folks who have no business there.

Flagstaffsooner
6/8/2008, 02:46 PM
If you can't afford to play though...you shouldn't be there..... and there's a lot of folks who have no business there.I think that is what I am saying. The fat bingo ladies who's butt cheeks don't exactly fit the machine stool.

King Crimson
6/8/2008, 02:53 PM
I should neg Flag for calling us idiots.

if "idiots" was the criteria, we'd all be in a world of hurt.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 04:00 PM
here's why I ask.

W/out getting into a lot of legalese, the Shawee can have a casino on any trust property they own within the boundaries of their former rez without asking the surrounding community.

Here's the dealio on this proposed site (as I see it.)

Since its not now in "trust status"*, if the Shawnee buy land out there and want to put up a casino, the neighborhood has to be generally in favor, or at least not oppose it in order for the Feds to allow such use.

Thus, I was just wondering what the OKC consensus might be on the issue.

One more thing, you prolly won't ever see a casino in Oklahoma City proper because the general contours of Oklahoma County were never assigned to any tribe. Thus, the first condition of gaming (within confines of a rez or former rez) can't be met.

Contrast T-town. North of Admiral is Cherokee, south of Admiral is Creek (MCN). Thus, casinos inside Tulsey.

BTW, that new Creek casino going in on Riverside is gonna be a humdinger.

*US owns legal title, equitable title owned by the tribe.

Turd_Ferguson
6/8/2008, 04:07 PM
Does the state or local goverment get anything from these casino's?


Edit: Other than the casino helping pay for stop lights and road widening for there entrance?

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 04:13 PM
Does the state or local goverment get anything from these casino's?


Edit: Other than the casino helping pay for stop lights and road widening for there entrance?

It depends. If its a Class III facility (Vegas style) the state gets around 6% of the net take. That's per the compact the tribes have with the state.

If its Class II or less (bingo or non-banked games) the state doesn't get anything.

Turd_Ferguson
6/8/2008, 04:20 PM
I've only been to Riverwind, the one at the Red River, and the one on the North side of Newcastle.....I think there all class II, so I guess we get nutt'n from them:mad:

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 04:24 PM
I'm pretty sure all are class III. All of them have table games. I'm pretty sure none have bingo.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 04:27 PM
I'm pretty sure all are class III. All of them have table games. I'm pretty sure none have bingo.

certain table games can still be Class II. The key is whether or not the dealer is playing for the house. If you're only playing against the people at your table, its prolly Class II.

Turd_Ferguson
6/8/2008, 04:31 PM
certain table games can still be Class II. The key is whether or not the dealer is playing for the house. If you're only playing against the people at your table, its prolly Class II.All of the slots are based on "bingo". The table games cost fitty cents a hand that go's to the house:confused:

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 04:36 PM
certain table games can still be Class II. The key is whether or not the dealer is playing for the house. If you're only playing against the people at your table, its prolly Class II.

I know all the Chickasaw casinos have blackjack and other table games where players play against the house.

StoopTroup
6/8/2008, 06:04 PM
That Creek Casino should thank the fine people of Jenks for financing that new Casino IMHO.

It is as Homey states....hugenormous.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 06:32 PM
All of the slots are based on "bingo". The table games cost fitty cents a hand that go's to the house:confused:

That is Class II.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 06:34 PM
That Creek Casino should thank the fine people of Jenks for financing that new Casino IMHO.

It is as Homey states....hugenormous.

It will be the largest between Vegas and the Mississippi River.

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 07:19 PM
That Creek Casino should thank the fine people of Jenks for financing that new Casino IMHO.

It is as Homey states....hugenormous.

Will this hugenormous gimassive casino have a nice poker room with a buncha idiots who play hands like 5 3 offsuit regularly? If it doesn't then the place ain't worth goin to.

Pink_Floyd
6/8/2008, 07:54 PM
It's my legal beau ideal, Denny Craine.

ole wise one=Okla-homey

could it be all that fake hair?
Shatner also complained about tenison..ringing in the ears
said it about drove him crazy.

back to the point..
don't you think we have enough casino's as it is?

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 07:55 PM
Will this hugenormous gimassive casino have a nice poker room with a buncha idiots who play hands like 5 3 offsuit regularly? If it doesn't then the place ain't worth goin to.

I imagine. It will also have alcohol. The great lubricant of gambling.;)

I expect they'll make at least twice the expense of the alcohol in additional gaming receipts.

Imagine, the modern use of firewater to separate folks from their property. Perfect. Absolutely perfect.;)

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 08:01 PM
Oooo, alcohol causes more people to play hands like 5 3 offsuit regularly...

I like your thinkin.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 08:03 PM
ole wise one=Okla-homey

could it be all that fake hair?
Shatner also complained about tenison..ringing in the ears
said it about drove him crazy.

back to the point..
don't you think we have enough casino's as it is?

Most experts believe Oklahoma is far from saturated.

IMHO, gaming has become the "New Buffalo." Personally, I think its wonderful the tribes have a means of making a better life for their people through the economic opportunity it presents. Further, I think whatever is good for our Indian fellow Oklahomans is good for all Oklahoma.

My dream however, is that an Oklahoma tribe will negotiate a deal with NASCAR to build a track in central Oklahoma. That would be a license to print money. The broadcast rights alone would be worth billions annually. An Okie NASCAR fans (of which there are millions) wouldn't have to drive to KC or Ft Worth to see races.

Turd_Ferguson
6/8/2008, 08:11 PM
My dream however, is that an Oklahoma tribe will negotiate a deal with NASCAR to build a track in central Oklahoma. That would be a license to print money. The broadcast rights alone would be worth billions annually. An Okie NASCAR fans (of which there are millions) wouldn't have to drive to KC or Ft Worth to see races.Texas Motor Speedway would see to it that doesn't happen.....kinda like mark cuban against us getting an NBA team.

Pink_Floyd
6/8/2008, 08:15 PM
Waddyathink about the Shawnee's bid to build a very nice Vegas-style comprehensive casino resort complex across the interstate from Frontier City?

I'm thinking it could be a very good thing for a part of your fair city that needs an economic infusion. A win-win as it were.

What say you?

how about a vegas style brothel...where gentlemen could gather
drink the fine wine,or your drink of choice,dicuss politics
listen to stories from stormchasers...how exciting that must be.

where beautiful women are willing to listen to even stormchaser stories
get great relaxing massages from these cleopatra looking women,with those seductive eyes,where you would want to arrive sooner than later.

Okla-homey
6/8/2008, 08:16 PM
Texas Motor Speedway would see to it that doesn't happen.....kinda like mark cuban against us getting an NBA team.

I dunno. See, that's the beauty of my plan.

If it were a tribe trying to get a track, Texas Motor Speedway would end up looking like racist meanies if they tried to put the kibosh on it. Kinda like the Donald when he tried to keep gaming away from Connecticutt tribes to protect his interests in Atlantic City to no avail.

Further, NASCAR has stated it's trying to become more ethnically diverse. Methinks it would be a feather in their cap (no pun intended) if they hooked up with a tribe. Especially here at the geographical center of the country with lots of nice flat space and great interstate access.

Frankly, I bet NASCAR would leap at it.

olevetonahill
6/8/2008, 08:32 PM
Do any of you idiots actually go to these casinos?

:O

CORNholio
6/8/2008, 09:05 PM
Any place that provides more jobs is a good idea in my book.

I can't understand why the gambling in this state is not like Vegas though. I always heard that if you were going to do something do it right. Why legalize gambling then turn around and restrict the **** out of it? Do away with the dang antes at the tables and legalize roulette and the like. Give away free booze and not just until 2am.

On a side note would a NASCAR track in Ok really compete for $$ with TMS or would most racefans attend both? I don't think NASCAR has a race at TMS everyweekend. I could be wrong though.

yermom
6/8/2008, 09:08 PM
it sounds like the tribes are not wanting to pay the 6% to the state and like the restricted rules, assuming what was stated above is true

tommieharris91
6/8/2008, 09:23 PM
Any place that provides more jobs is a good idea in my book.

I can't understand why the gambling in this state is not like Vegas though. I always heard that if you were going to do something do it right. Why legalize gambling then turn around and restrict the **** out of it? Do away with the dang antes at the tables and legalize roulette and the like. Give away free booze and not just until 2am.

I say keep the booze not free. Other than that, make it just like Vegas. Hookers and all...

CORNholio
6/9/2008, 12:17 AM
I say keep the booze not free. Other than that, make it just like Vegas. Hookers and all...

The okie casinos already have hookers.:hot:

tommieharris91
6/9/2008, 12:34 AM
The okie casinos already have hookers.:hot:

Your post is worthless without pics.

Okla-homey
6/9/2008, 05:44 AM
Any place that provides more jobs is a good idea in my book.

I can't understand why the gambling in this state is not like Vegas though. I always heard that if you were going to do something do it right. Why legalize gambling then turn around and restrict the **** out of it? Do away with the dang antes at the tables and legalize roulette and the like. Give away free booze and not just until 2am.

On a side note would a NASCAR track in Ok really compete for $$ with TMS or would most racefans attend both? I don't think NASCAR has a race at TMS everyweekend. I could be wrong though.

I like your way of thinking.

The simple fact not all tribal casinos in Oklahoma are Vegas-like is because in order to run that sort of facility, under federal law, a tribe must be a signatory to the Tribal-State Gaming Compact. The compact (really like a contract between two sovereign entities) controls on what games will be offered and terms of play.

That, and the fact some tribes don't want to bother with the additional hassles of running a Class III (think Vegas-style) casino because they feel they're making plenty with their Class II facility. In the end, that's a decision for those people and their leaders. If you beleive in the notion of tribal sovereignty (as I do), then it necessarily follows a tribe has the right to make that decision.

On a very positive note, one can observe lots of signs several tribes are diversifying their interests not to be totally dependent on gaming revenues. I think that's really wise. The best example I can think of is the Florida branch of the Seminoles. Those folks bought the Hard Rock cafe franchise. Every Hard Rock Cafe in the world belongs to them. Another example is sports venues. Several tribes have built arenas where various events occur for which the tribe gets paid when an event is broadcast. Odds are, if its boxing or billiards and its on cable or broadcast TV, a tribe is getting paid.

Turd_Ferguson
6/9/2008, 06:54 AM
What casino's in OK are considered Vegas style?

Okla-homey
6/9/2008, 07:09 AM
What casino's in OK are considered Vegas style?


Class III. classic slots, house banked card games, etc. Example: the Cherokee, Osage and Creek casinos at Tulsa are Class III.

Cam
6/9/2008, 04:28 PM
Class III. classic slots, house banked card games, etc. Example: the Cherokee, Osage and Creek casinos at Tulsa are Class III.

Comparing those to Vegas is just plain wrong. Call it what ever class you like, they're at best A ball compared to MLB.

Okla-homey
6/10/2008, 05:12 AM
Comparing those to Vegas is just plain wrong. Call it what ever class you like, they're at best A ball compared to MLB.

Its only an expression, useful to distinguish one class of casino from the other. Why the fuss? Is your last name Harrah or something?;)

yermom
6/10/2008, 08:36 AM
it's Vegas-style gaming, not Vegas-style casinos

even that doesn't quite cover it.

ours are way less subtle in the way they fleece the gambler

soonerbrat
6/10/2008, 10:08 AM
Waddyathink about the Shawnee's bid to build a very nice Vegas-style comprehensive casino resort complex across the interstate from Frontier City?

I'm thinking it could be a very good thing for a part of your fair city that needs an economic infusion. A win-win as it were.

What say you?


i think it's a horrible idea. my mom is already addicted to gambling and that would be about a mile from her house

soonerbrat
6/10/2008, 10:16 AM
but i guess the remington park casino is not that far of a drive, so what the heck. I just hope it doesn't take business away from the Fire Lake Grand since that one is owned by the tribe I belong to.

and I do go occasionally to the poker rooms, but I refuse to pay 50 cents a hand to play table games. If they had craps (real craps, not card craps) I might play that.

tommieharris91
6/10/2008, 12:22 PM
Isn't Firelake a Shawnee casino?

picasso
6/10/2008, 12:26 PM
enough effing casinos already.

picasso
6/10/2008, 12:27 PM
Isn't Firelake a Shawnee casino?

yes, citizen band potawatomi.

SoonerInKCMO
6/10/2008, 12:35 PM
enough effing casinos already.

Whole-heartedly agree. I don't any anti-gambling moral stance; we just have too much of an 'industry' that doesn't provide any real value-add to the economy other than letting people watch flashing lights and listen to ringing bells in trade for some cash.

soonerbrat
6/10/2008, 12:38 PM
Isn't Firelake a Shawnee casino?

it's near shawnee, the city, but it's run by the citizen band potawatomi tribe

picasso
6/10/2008, 12:40 PM
I'm not anti-gambling either. I'm anti-those rednecks coulda been spending money to stimulate the local economy.:D or, what you said.

picasso
6/10/2008, 12:40 PM
it's near shawnee, the city, but it's run by the citizen band potawatomi tribe

what do you know about them there potawatomis!

soonerbrat
6/10/2008, 12:43 PM
what do you know about them there potawatomis!

i know it's almost time for the powwow. and that they send my son a check every semester for housing :D

soonerbrat
6/10/2008, 12:44 PM
and that i see a WHOLE BUNCH of their tribal tags on the road these days

picasso
6/10/2008, 12:46 PM
i know it's almost time for the powwow. and that they send my son a check every semester for housing :D

awesome! I used to get a little check every semester. wasn't much but it helped.

soonerbrat
6/10/2008, 12:47 PM
awesome! I used to get a little check every semester. wasn't much but it helped.

it's up to $675/semester. and since his room & board is paid by his scholarship, he gets to keep that money

r5TPsooner
6/10/2008, 12:53 PM
Im sorry, I would like a serious answer. What kind of moron would waste money at one of these rip off palaces?

I think that you answered your question in your own post.

To stay on thread topic I think that it would be a terrible idea as well.

Cam
6/10/2008, 01:33 PM
Its only an expression, useful to distinguish one class of casino from the other. Why the fuss? Is your last name Harrah or something?;)

I know, but I actually like Vegas. I like that they at least put forth the effort that it's about the entertainment, even though you know it's not. The places around here don't even put for the effort. It's more like begging with an occasional kick back.

Okla-homey
6/10/2008, 02:58 PM
I found it difficult to comprehend that casinos don't contribute to the local economy. The money taken in gets spent. Generally right here in Oklahoma. The employees are paid, they spend their money right here in Oklahoma.

To me, its more of a "sure thing" than the economic impact of any other governmental activity. Including major league franchise enticements.

I say again, what's good for the tribes, is good for all Oklahomans.

And that is not even to mention the fact these people were about due for a break. Lord knows we hosed 'em pretty good for much of our state's history. I say, good for them.

One final thought, someday, during my lifetime, the tribes will be the largest employers in Oklahoma.

frankensooner
6/10/2008, 03:02 PM
I don't want to see Remington fold. That place has had a hard enough time and is barely staying afloat as is.

SoonerInKCMO
6/10/2008, 03:10 PM
I found it difficult to comprehend that casinos don't contribute to the local economy. The money taken in gets spent. Generally right here in Oklahoma. The employees are paid, they spend their money right here in Oklahoma.

To me, its more of a "sure thing" than the economic impact of any other governmental activity. Including major league franchise enticements.

I say again, what's good for the tribes, is good for all Oklahomans.

It's just a voluntary redistribution of wealth that does little to increase the net worth of the average Oklahoman - unlike manufacturing or energy production that creates valuable goods that can be exported and that increase the wealth of the locals.

picasso
6/10/2008, 05:17 PM
I found it difficult to comprehend that casinos don't contribute to the local economy. The money taken in gets spent. Generally right here in Oklahoma. The employees are paid, they spend their money right here in Oklahoma.

To me, its more of a "sure thing" than the economic impact of any other governmental activity. Including major league franchise enticements.

I say again, what's good for the tribes, is good for all Oklahomans.

And that is not even to mention the fact these people were about due for a break. Lord knows we hosed 'em pretty good for much of our state's history. I say, good for them.

One final thought, someday, during my lifetime, the tribes will be the largest employers in Oklahoma.

I disagree. Folks who have money in these smaller towns (rich widow types) whom I know of, spend their time and money at these nasty places when they might be putting it to better use. Sure there's the "addicted and redneck can't afford to be there in the first place" crowd but I tend to think it's a sad cycle. And I know a local bank president who agrees with me on that.

Mjcpr
6/10/2008, 05:22 PM
Homey, is it safe to assume you and/or your firm are in a business relationship with one or more of the tribes/casinos? You were pretty adamant against the Lottery but are in complete favor of the casinos which seems odd.

CORNholio
6/10/2008, 05:26 PM
Whole-heartedly agree. I don't any anti-gambling moral stance; we just have too much of an 'industry' that doesn't provide any real value-add to the economy other than letting people watch flashing lights and listen to ringing bells in trade for some cash.

Is a few hundred jobs that pay anywhere from 35,000 to 60,000 dollars a year not a contribution to the economy? Not to mention the payroll in upper-management. It doesn't just benefit the indian tribes, all of those paychecks are taxed by the state and the employees also spend that money right here in Oklahoma paying sales taxes.

TheUnnamedSooner
6/10/2008, 05:31 PM
It's worthless without craps.

Okla-homey
6/10/2008, 05:49 PM
Homey, is it safe to assume you and/or your firm are in a business relationship with one or more of the tribes/casinos? You were pretty adamant against the Lottery but are in complete favor of the casinos which seems odd.


Nope, but my step-dad's Indian and he has benefitted immensely. (Mom married a Choctaw feller back in 1985.) I took a course in federal indian gaming law in law skoolz and studied it up close and personal like. I've also observed the benefits of indian gaming nationwide for a group of my fellow Americans who have been squarely and regularly shafted since 1492.

I'm opposed to the lottery generally because its a game of bait and switch. They shilled it to us by promising "all our public school dreams would come true." Instead, the guys up at the capitol have taken a credit for lottery proceeds, and don't appropriate the money they otherwise would. That, IMHO, is dishonest. It was supposed to supplement the General Education appropriation, not allow it to be raided. In the end, we still face emotional appeals for more school dough.

That, and lotteries are a tax on people who are dumb at math.;)

At least at a casino, a person is being entertained.

Okla-homey
6/10/2008, 05:52 PM
Is a few thousand jobs that pay anywhere from 35,000 to 60,000 dollars a year not a contribution to the economy? Not to mention the payroll in upper-management. It doesn't just benefit the indian tribes, all of those paychecks are taxed by the state and the employees also spend that money right here in Oklahoma paying sales taxes.

Fixed it, and couldn't have said it better myself.

Okla-homey
6/10/2008, 05:57 PM
I disagree. Folks who have money in these smaller towns (rich widow types) whom I know of, spend their time and money at these nasty places when they might be putting it to better use.

doing what, buying knick-knacks from QVC? Chippendales tix? Travel outside of Oklahoma on vacations? Cruises? Buying Corvettes? ;)

olevetonahill
6/10/2008, 06:00 PM
I disagree. Folks who have money in these smaller towns (rich widow types) whom I know of, spend their time and money at these nasty places when they might be putting it to better use. Sure there's the "addicted and redneck can't afford to be there in the first place" crowd but I tend to think it's a sad cycle. And I know a local bank president who agrees with me on that.

I dont Care about the Casinos
I wanta hear More about these RICH widers !
where they are Bro ?

olevetonahill
6/10/2008, 06:01 PM
doing what, buying knick-knacks from QVC? Chippendales tix? Travel outside of Oklahoma on vacations? Cruises? Buying Corvettes? ;)

Hooking up with the Olevet
Now Hush and let him tell me where they are !:D

BigRedJed
6/18/2008, 06:44 PM
To answer your original question, Homey (sorry, I haven't been online much lately), I personally think it would be a bad thing for OKC, and potentially for the entire state. Most of the OKC business community is on the same page.

The reason is strictly proximity to Remington Park, which would likely close if the place were allowed to open. Much of the movement behind the expansion of casino gaming a few years ago to incorporate cards in Indian casinos and electronic gaming in race tracks (racinos) was to help the horse racing industry, which provides thousands of Oklahoma jobs outside of the racing facilities themselves.

Basically, casinos (along with lotteries, tracks and casinos in neighboring states) were killing the tracks, and most of them were about to go under. Adding electronic gaming breathed new life into them, and into the horse industry statewide. However, as part of the compact with the tribes, racinos have limited hours (casinos can stay open all night), a limited number of machines, and no card games. A closeby casino would likely devastate the business at Remington, which is the state's premier track. If Remington went away, so would many, many horse-related jobs statewide.

Casinos like Firelake and Riverwind don't really impact RP like this one would, because they are outside of the metro proper and draw from other areas. Most metro residents, if given a choice, will probably choose to go where the gaming is more varied, the hours are longer, and the facility is fancier. RP only has control over the last item, due to government mandate, so they are in a legislated competetive disadvantage.

The complication is that the city doesn't really have any say in the matter. The federal government makes the decision, and if they approve it, the tribe can build whatever, wherever, whenever. The only catch is that the land, as stated, has to be in trust. There is no original tribal land (at least under the government's definition) in Oklahoma City, by the way (remember that OKC was settled via "the Run for the Unassigned Lands"). The land in question was put into trust because the tribe originally stated a different purpose other than casino when acquiring it (a questionable method that has been used by a number of tribes around the U.S.).

The Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma is actually a recently-recognized tribe (the longstanding federally recognized tribes in Oklahoma are the Absentee Shawnee and the Eastern Shawnee). They seem to have pressed for recognition primarily in an effort to get in on the casino business. They were previously associated with the Cherokees. They are headquartered in Miami.

One of the tools that opponents to this development are using is the stated goal of the federal government for tribal businesses to employ members of the tribe. The Shawnee have no connection whatsoever to OKC, and few if any of its members live here. So it is a very controversial thing for a Shawnee casino to locate here. What would the tribal members do, commute? In fact the casino would likely be an Indian casino in name and ownership only.

So the question is, should such a development be allowed to come here and nearly singlehandedly wreck the horse racing industry in Oklahoma (a likely outcome) and close a longstanding Oklahoma business (Remington Park) that already employs a large number of Oklahomans? Personally, I don't think it should.