Court proceeding shows major Ncaa violations for USC

[Collier11]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Ar3gY3ooo8bo3trp1vV0WuM5nYcB?slug=ys-bush060508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Bush lawyer reveals settlement
By Jason Cole and Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
Jun 5, 8:08 pm EDT

Buzz Up PrintSAN DIEGO – An attorney for Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush filed a motion this week acknowledging that the running back’s family reached a financial settlement with a financier of a would-be marketing agency that attempted to recruit Bush while he was at the University of Southern California.


The settlement with Michael Michaels of now defunct New Era Sports & Entertainment, first reported by Yahoo! Sports in April 2007, was for $300,000.


The motion to settle the case through arbitration was revealed Thursday during what was scheduled to be a deposition of New Era partner Lloyd Lake. Lake has filed a civil lawsuit against Bush and his family seeking $300,000 for cash and gifts Lake said he provided while Bush played for the Trojans.


Proceedings halted less than 10 minutes after Lake’s deposition was to begin. Bush’s attorney David Cornwell said the motion was to compel Lake to adhere to the terms of the settlement reached between Michaels and Bush’s parents – LaMar and Denise Griffin.


An irritated Superior Court Judge Joan M. Lewis admonished both sides, but ultimately agreed to postpone all depositions in the case and schedule a hearing for Aug. 1 to discuss the motion.


Cornwell said the settlement with Michaels included Bush as an “intended beneficiary” of Michaels, releasing the family of any liabilities. A copy of the settlement filed with the court was heavily edited, removing almost all detail of the transaction.

“They’re conceding that they received this money,” Lake’s attorney Brian Watkins said. “But now their argument is that: ‘We got this money, but we paid it back already. We paid it to Michaels and that satisfied Lloyd’s debts.”

Lake was more succinct.

“The key thing is (they said) they never took money before,” Lake said. “Now, they’re saying they did.”

If Bush’s attorneys don’t win their argument Aug. 1, Bush could be doing his deposition Sept. 9. That’s two days after Bush and the New Orleans Saints are scheduled to open the NFL season.


An NCAA investigation into the actions of Bush and USC continues. If the NCAA rules that Bush received extra benefits during his playing career at USC, he could be ruled retroactively ineligible. Since some of the benefits date back to the 2004 season, the Trojans’ national championship that season could be rescinded. USC could face further NCAA sanctions and Bush’s 2005 Heisman Trophy could be in jeopardy.

[Big Red Ron]

Wow, if that MNC was vacated, would that be the first season ever with no National Champion?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Bust 'em mofos real good!

[RedstickSooner]

Er...? How could this affect the Condom national championship? The NCAA has nothing to do with the Associated Press or coaches' poll, so how would vacating some wins change the champion? Have the AP or Coaches come out and said they'd vacate the NC if Suc had to vacate the wins of the season?

Wouldn't much matter, but it sure would be funny. I'm still waiting on sanctions, and because Suc has refused to co-operate, and has drug this thing out so long, any sanctions that are handed down will be implemented on a program that includes almost none of the players that were there when the violations took place. Which, while amusing, isn't really fair to current players. They should be sanctioned for *their* improper benefits, after all :D

[ouflak]

Er...? How could this affect the Condom national championship? The NCAA has nothing to do with the Associated Press or coaches' poll, so how would vacating some wins change the champion? Have the AP or Coaches come out and said they'd vacate the NC if Suc had to vacate the wins of the season?

Wouldn't much matter, but it sure would be funny.

In a way you're right. Afterall, those voters can theoretically vote anybody they like as champion (hence the current mythical status of NC's in college football). But as well as funny, it would be very odd. USC could be required to vacate the win or even forfeit the game outright. If they have to vacate the win, then there would be the odd situation of the title going to a team which 'lost' its last game. Just ask Alabama fans about the validity of such a championship. If they must forfeit, then technically, OU would have won the game. I believe the AP voters were actually required by some sort of contract to vote for the winner of that game as champions. ?...

?...

????

Not sure what happens in that strange (and as yet, VERY hypothetical) scenario. I'm pretty sure we have far to much pride to accept a MNC under such a scenario, even if the voters were somehow allowed to go back and change their vote.

I suppose if USC is required to scratch that game, then the voters might also be allowed to go back and atleast vacate their votes. Anyway, it's speculation at this point.

[oupride]

Thanks for the post.

[IronHorseSooner]

How 'bout a No-Peat:D

[Scott D]

Er...? How could this affect the Condom national championship? The NCAA has nothing to do with the Associated Press or coaches' poll, so how would vacating some wins change the champion? Have the AP or Coaches come out and said they'd vacate the NC if Suc had to vacate the wins of the season?

Wouldn't much matter, but it sure would be funny. I'm still waiting on sanctions, and because Suc has refused to co-operate, and has drug this thing out so long, any sanctions that are handed down will be implemented on a program that includes almost none of the players that were there when the violations took place. Which, while amusing, isn't really fair to current players. They should be sanctioned for *their* improper benefits, after all :D

well, with the most base of arguments. by forfeiting their wins they would be unable to receive votes in the USA Today Poll, which is the main defining factor in the Crystal Trophy chase. Afterall, a team that went 0-0 can't exactly have won anything now can it?

[fadada1]

Wow, if that MNC was vacated, would that be the first season ever with no National Champion?

"DIBS!!!!"

-alabama fan

[soonerspudman]

Anyone else notice how ESPN gave this a quick spin on the Bush arbitration side, then dropped it like a hot potato? This key angle about admitting funds acceptance was missing.

What a bunch of crap.

The NCAA and the networks need the east and west coast revenue, they can't afford to have these programs tarnished. Whenever a "small-market" school steps out of line they crush them as evidence of NCAA cleansing/purity, but conveniently act confused and bewildered when something goes awry at one of their revenue cornerstones.

Seriously, can you imagine this exact scenario at OU/Georgia/Nebraska/Alabama/fill in the blank? ESPN/others would make weekly headlines of it. SI would do front-page cover stories. The NCAA would have already completed a major investigation and handed out brutal sanctions.

The truth is that the NCAA has everything it needs right now but is stonewalling, hoping it can play dumb and the public will just sorta forget about this over enough time. Schools like SC with the major so cal market and national following are just too important to the revenue model, therefore they're immune. Hopefully the publicity and public outcry for justice will become overwhelming, we'll see.

[SteelClip49]

maybe I am not understanding the whole legal process here but damn, why must this be dragged out like this? If this was Oklahoma, we already would be put on probation. Me thinks Will Ferrell is going behind the scenes and paying off the NCAA to keep this from happening to USC.

[85sooners]

bust em!

[Scott D]

maybe I am not understanding the whole legal process here but damn, why must this be dragged out like this? If this was Oklahoma, we already would be put on probation. Me thinks Will Ferrell is going behind the scenes and paying off the NCAA to keep this from happening to USC.

Because unlike our situation, or the Ohio State situations, this had to go through the federal and civil court systems before the NCAA could do much of anything outside of trying to get USC to admit how much was known.

[OU_Sooners75]

In a way you're right. Afterall, those voters can theoretically vote anybody they like as champion (hence the current mythical status of NC's in college football). But as well as funny, it would be very odd. USC could be required to vacate the win or even forfeit the game outright. If they have to vacate the win, then there would be the odd situation of the title going to a team which 'lost' its last game. Just ask Alabama fans about the validity of such a championship. If they must forfeit, then technically, OU would have won the game. I believe the AP voters were actually required by some sort of contract to vote for the winner of that game as champions. ?...

?...

????

Not sure what happens in that strange (and as yet, VERY hypothetical) scenario. I'm pretty sure we have far to much pride to accept a MNC under such a scenario, even if the voters were somehow allowed to go back and change their vote.

I suppose if USC is required to scratch that game, then the voters might also be allowed to go back and atleast vacate their votes. Anyway, it's speculation at this point.


In way he/she is correct. However, the NCAA indirectly has something to do with the BCS, considering the BCS consists of the conferences and member schools. The commissioners of all D-1A conferences make up the BCS.

Also, the AP has never been contractorally obligated to vote for the winner of the BCS. Or did you miss the 2003 split between LSU and USC?

[tanjou]

Nothing will ever happen. Let it go.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

South Carolina St. will be put on probation for this!!

[VA Sooner]

All interesting conjecture... but doubt it will mean that the National Championship will go to the next deserving team. Most likely, a blank page in the history of the NCAA with an asterisk at best to try to explain what happened in 2004.

Doesn't erase the debacle in the Orange Bowl for me.

But it will be very interesting to see what the NCAA does with USC!

[TexasLidig8r]

The lady is only half undressed.

Before the NCAA can drop the hammer on USC, they have to find evidence that the USC athletic department knew or should have known, or they did not have adequate monitoring procedures in place to oversee student athletes in the athletic department.

Keep your eyes on the OJ Mayo situation. We have the IRS looking into that matter.

The NCAA will have no choice but to investigate thoroughly and drop the hammer if and when the evidence comes to light that the USC athletic deparment turned a blind eye since they will be able to use the information garnered by others.. such as private parties in litigation and/or the IRS since they have the use of subpoenas to obtain information.

Stay tuned... egregious violations, lack of oversight and stone-walling the NCAA leads to major probation.

[badger]

The lady is only half undressed.

Before the NCAA can drop the hammer on USC, they have to find evidence that the USC athletic department knew or should have known, or they did not have adequate monitoring procedures in place to oversee student athletes in the athletic department.

Keep your eyes on the OJ Mayo situation. We have the IRS looking into that matter.

The NCAA will have no choice but to investigate thoroughly and drop the hammer if and when the evidence comes to light that the USC athletic deparment turned a blind eye since they will be able to use the information garnered by others.. such as private parties in litigation and/or the IRS since they have the use of subpoenas to obtain information.

Stay tuned... egregious violations, lack of oversight and stone-walling the NCAA leads to major probation.

Hi Lid. Long time :)

I would rather play for it than be handed it on an asterisk platter. There have been Final Four banners vacated in the past, but that doesn't mean other teams are trying to raise their own. Minnesota? They lost one of those in '97, but you don't see their Elite Eight opponent, UCLA, trying to raise another. Then again, would anyone notice amongst all their basketball banners?

[OUDoc]

The lady is only half undressed.

Before the NCAA can drop the hammer on USC, they have to find evidence that the USC athletic department knew or should have known, or they did not have adequate monitoring procedures in place to oversee student athletes in the athletic department.


Yeah, we tried the "how were we to know?" approach, the NCAA doesn't buy it.
If USC doesn't get burned big time for this, the NCAA will lose all credibility. USC will have set the standard, stonewall the NCAA and they can't do ****. Surely the NCAA can see this.

[fadada1]

The lady is only half undressed.

Before the NCAA can drop the hammer on USC, they have to find evidence that the USC athletic department knew or should have known, or they did not have adequate monitoring procedures in place to oversee student athletes in the athletic department.

Keep your eyes on the OJ Mayo situation. We have the IRS looking into that matter.

The NCAA will have no choice but to investigate thoroughly and drop the hammer if and when the evidence comes to light that the USC athletic deparment turned a blind eye since they will be able to use the information garnered by others.. such as private parties in litigation and/or the IRS since they have the use of subpoenas to obtain information.

Stay tuned... egregious violations, lack of oversight and stone-walling the NCAA leads to major probation.

i agree, lid.

however, i find it IMPOSSIBLE to think that usc had no knowledge of MAJOR violations going on. too many people outside of the "inner circle" of usc and reggie bush saw things. no way usc didn't/doesn't know.

[badger]

soooo... is it time for us to create a new university athletic association aside from the NCAA? Is it time to abandon the machine that feeds itself and likes its status quo status as unquestioned ruler of all?

Georgia will probably be on board. They fought them with us once before. Who else wants out of the NCAA?

[Scott D]

Nothing will happen to USC because John McCain's wife went there, so if he becomes president he'll pardon them and award them every national title from 1900-2008 retroactively

[Collier11]

i agree, lid.

however, i find it IMPOSSIBLE to think that usc had no knowledge of MAJOR violations going on. too many people outside of the "inner circle" of usc and reggie bush saw things. no way usc didn't/doesn't know.

Exactly, I find it very hard to believe that Pete Carroll had no knowledge of Reggie Bush's parents getting a 300k house. The dwayne Jarrett issue didnt bother me, I thought it was bs that a friend/teammate couldnt let him stay with him for a cheaper price, normal students do it all the time. But this is crazy and Someone had to know about this, especially when the NCAA says that we should have known that Romar wasnt filling out his time cards correctly. That is pennies compared to this

[BillyBall]

Wow, if that MNC was vacated, would that be the first season ever with no National Champion?

Alabama will claim it.

[badger]

Alabama will claim it.

Auburn, within the state of Alabama, already has claimed it to a general consensus of this -> :rolleyes:

Alabama, Auburn's main rival, will glare in Auburn's general direction, like this -> :mad:

Auburn will smile back at Bama, like this -> :D

Why? Because title or no title, Auburn has pwn3d the Iron Bowl versus Bama, $4 million coach or cheap alum coach... which should make the rest of the country sit back and relax, like this -> :pop:

[yermom]

Exactly, I find it very hard to believe that Pete Carroll had no knowledge of Reggie Bush's parents getting a 300k house. The dwayne Jarrett issue didnt bother me, I thought it was bs that a friend/teammate couldnt let him stay with him for a cheaper price, normal students do it all the time. But this is crazy and Someone had to know about this, especially when the NCAA says that we should have known that Romar wasnt filling out his time cards correctly. That is pennies compared to this

i'm not sure how he would know about the house. i agree on the Leinart/Jarrett thing. that was just kinda lame

[KantoSooner]

While I see your point, as a general matter, the goings on in Reggie Bush's life would, one would think, command a bit more of Petey's bandwidth than, well, ANY OTHER PLAYER IN CARROLL'S HISTORY AS A COACH.
When Bush's parents move from whatever dump they were in before to a suddenly nice middle class type lifestyle, any reasonable person would raise an eyebrow.
Presuming that reasonable person is a football coach very aware of the potential for improper inducements to be offered players, and failure to question what was going on goes beyond mere 'oversight' and pegs right over on 'wilfull ignorance'. And that, dearly beloved, combined with stonewalling for years might just be enough for action far beyond probation. I'm thinking death penalty here. SMU got swacked for less.

[yermom]

how often does the head coach go to a players house after they have been playing?

they lived in San Diego, like 4 hours away

[Collier11]

I'm thinking death penalty here. SMU got swacked for less.

Not true, SMU was a renegade program

[Bone]

I hope USC gets the book thrown at them, but I doubt it will happen.

[OUDoc]

I'm thinking death penalty here. SMU got swacked for less.

No one will get death penalties anymore.

[Flagstaffsooner]

the NCAA will lose all credibility

Like they ever had any.

[KantoSooner]

Official Retraction

I'm sorry I spoke harshly of USC. I should have realized that, in the US today, no one bears responsibility for anything anymore. And that Petey and staff had no duty to be even mildly curious about anything going on in the life of the biggest deal to come through their town since OJ himself.

I regret having placed a 'reasonable man' standard upon their actions. Henceforth, I will refrain from expecting logic surpassing that of an Irish Setter from anyone.

Yep. Things happen, randomly. No one knows why. Epiphenomenalism, here we come!

[Collier11]

no one said they didnt do anything, we are all saying that the NCAA is going to be slow to do anything at all and that what they do is no where near what smu did

[Taxman71]

I say hammer SUC, but I am against vacating wins, trophies and championships whether it is OU from the Bomar/Quinn fiasco, SUC or anyone else. All vacating wins does is slap the innocent 99% of players/coaches/staff and 100% of the fanbase in the face without any deterrant effect....everyone knows who won and was the better team each week.

[Collier11]

agreed!

[Tulsa_Fireman]

They should let a train of midgets punch Petey in the nards.

[soonerboomer93]

um, wasn't he driving around in a car that had several thousand dollars worth of rims and stereo equipment that he got on/around his birthday?

I understand coaches not keeping an eye on where the parents are, but they should have a clue about the athletes local housing and vehicle.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Wow, if that MNC was vacated, would that be the first season ever with no National Champion?

Nope. Even if they had to vacate the MNC, 1871 had no national champ, fyi. ;)

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

[Scott D]

I say hammer SUC, but I am against vacating wins, trophies and championships whether it is OU from the Bomar/Quinn fiasco, SUC or anyone else. All vacating wins does is slap the innocent 99% of players/coaches/staff and 100% of the fanbase in the face without any deterrant effect....everyone knows who won and was the better team each week.

tell that to the rest of the team that was on the "Fab Five" Michigan hoops teams.

[badger]

Happy medium agreement...

In order to punish but save face, we need to give and take here, thinks the NCAA. We need to promote the legitimacy of our enforcement and rules while promoting the legitimacy of our college athletic programs.

THEREFORE...

1- USC does not vacate any wins from the years Bush played.
Why: Bomar and Quinn cheated too, but OU got to keep their wins eventually after appeals, so there's a precedent set. USC keeps wins.

2- USC forfeits any and all references, records, etc. to the career of Reggie Bush.
Why: Bush does not deserve the accolades, nor should USC profit off of them. Take away his Heisman, take his jersey number out of the endzone and swipe him from any and all references in USC lore. He is not an athlete to be proud of, because he blatantly cheated the rules and continues to get away with it... until now.

3- The NCAA itself finally declares championship winners from now on.
Why: Because Kentucky thinks they won one of ours, USC thinks they won one of Texas A&M's (which is the Aggie's only claimed championship), Bama thinks they've won them all and it is out of hand. The NCAA, as the chief regulator and rules enforcer, should from now on declare a sole champion each year and set regulations on how said championship can be rescinded. For example, violation of NCAA rules. Right now, the bowls are independent of the NCAA. It's time for our overlord and unquestioned benevolent dictator to take charge. If that requires a four team playoff or whatever after bowls, so be it.

These steps should be taken to...

1- Punish Reggie Bush himself. USC has a lot of arseholes and d00shebagettes, but they did not cheat like Bush did.

2- Not punish everyone for one player's wrongdoing. Not saying that others were not involved, but until that can be proved, Bush is solely responsible for his own actions.

3- Take steps to ensure this does not happen again. The NCAA has no say over the championship, but with this hanging over team's heads in the future, it could lead to greater enforcement of the rules.

Now, if OJ Mayo is also guilty, we can start the "lack of institutional control" hammer arguments for USC. Let's not jump to conclusions, and as most Sooner fans agree, let's let the 2004 championship talks die. We want to win it on the field, not in NCAA's smoke-filled room.

[Big Red Ron]

heh, no-pete

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Pete and No-pete went out in a boat.

Pete fell in the water after being punched in the nards by a train of midgets.

Who was left in the boat?

[Scott D]

Pete and No-pete went out in a boat.

Pete fell in the water after being punched in the nards by a train of midgets.

Who was left in the boat?

the bloody glove, a serrated edged knife, and the number to reggie bush's swiss bank account.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

If the glove does not FIT...

[Taxman71]

tell that to the rest of the team that was on the "Fab Five" Michigan hoops teams.

The fact you referred to "Fab Five" proves that removing a banner from a gym or erasing stats from some fictional recordbook is meaningless. At long as basketballers still wear black socks and shorts down to their knees the Fab Five is not forgotten.


Besides, Webber, Rose and Howard made out pretty good in the long run.

[Scott D]

The fact you referred to "Fab Five" proves that removing a banner from a gym or erasing stats from some fictional recordbook is meaningless. At long as basketballers still wear black socks and shorts down to their knees the Fab Five is not forgotten.


Besides, Webber, Rose and Howard made out pretty good in the long run.

Yeah, but can you without looking it up name anyone else besides Ray Jackson and Jimmy King that was on that team?

The damage really wasn't removing anything that team did, it's everything else they did that has killed Michigan basketball for this entire decade so far.

[badger]

Yeah, but can you without looking it up name anyone else besides Ray Jackson and Jimmy King that was on that team?

The damage really wasn't removing anything that team did, it's everything else they did that has killed Michigan basketball for this entire decade so far.

Badger: Ooo! Ooo! Pick me! Pick me!

Scott D: Anyone besides badger pay attention to Big 10 basketball?

Crickets: Chirp chirp!

Scott D: Ok then, badger?

Badger: a-HEM...

Robert "Tractor" Traylor, the Bucks first rounder, who was paid with a luxurious SUV to attend and play at Meatchicken. He was actually drafted by the Mavs, but in one of the most notoriously bad draft day moves EVER, The Bucks traded their own pick, DIRK NOWITZKI, unknown out of Germany at the time to everyone except Milwaukee and Dallas, to get Traylor.

Traylor was an abysmal flop, but still got some endorsement deals (like Nike) because of his cool "Tractor" Traylor nickname. Robert Traylor was after the Fab Five's time, but nonetheless, was part of the cheating that the program was known for and also had a part in sinking Meatchicken basketball in obscurity.

:D Ok, what do I win? :D

[Fraggle145]

Badger: Ooo! Ooo! Pick me! Pick me!

Scott D: Anyone besides badger pay attention to Big 10 basketball?

Crickets: Chirp chirp!

Scott D: Ok then, badger?

Badger: a-HEM...

Robert "Tractor" Traylor, the Bucks first rounder, who was paid with a luxurious SUV to attend and play at Meatchicken. He was actually drafted by the Mavs, but in one of the most notoriously bad draft day moves EVER, The Bucks traded their own pick, DIRK NOWITZKI, unknown out of Germany at the time to everyone except Milwaukee and Dallas, to get Traylor.

Traylor was an abysmal flop, but still got some endorsement deals (like Nike) because of his cool "Tractor" Traylor nickname. Robert Traylor was after the Fab Five's time, but nonetheless, was part of the cheating that the program was known for and also had a part in sinking Meatchicken basketball in obscurity.

:D Ok, what do I win? :D

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif

[NormanPride]

Yeah, my wife is a nerd. :D

[badger]

Yeah, my wife is a nerd. :D

Something tells me YOU would never forget the player that your team traded DIRK FREAKIN' NOWITZKI away for and got NOTHING in return, especially if he played for the Spurs.

That is the only reason I remember Traylor. He was a Buck temporarily, then sucked and got traded and has been a journeyman trying to make it back into the league. Good think he made his money while he could - as a college player at Michigan :rolleyes:

I had not heard of Dirk when the Bucks drafted him, but I had heard of Traylor, because of Big 10 basketball press up in Wisconsin. I think he would have blended in with the German north quite well :)

:( but it was not meant to be.

[Taxman71]

Yeah, but can you without looking it up name anyone else besides Ray Jackson and Jimmy King that was on that team?

The damage really wasn't removing anything that team did, it's everything else they did that has killed Michigan basketball for this entire decade so far.

That's my point. NCAA sanctions hit the program hard, but vacating wins, erasing stats and taking down banners only "rubs it in" and is the NCAA's weak attempt to punish those who actually cheated rather than everyone else who didn't. Problem is, the actual sanctions DO punish the ones who did not cheat while the cheaters likely could care less about records, stats or banners.

It's not like the Fab 5 had to refund any NBA money because of what they did in college. Until that happens, the NCAA can only come down on the schools, even though they are largely defenseless to prevent many violations (i.e. - Bomar).

[Jason White's Third Knee]

All interesting conjecture... but doubt it will mean that the National Championship will go to the next deserving team. Most likely, a blank page in the history of the NCAA with an asterisk at best to try to explain what happened in 2004.

Doesn't erase the debacle in the Orange Bowl for me.

But it will be very interesting to see what the NCAA does with USC!

What Orange Bowl? I don't remember one from that year.

[ric311]

The punishment (assuming there is one) needs to be consistent with what has happened in other cases. That means that the kids who are there right now take the brunt of the punishment.

In the end I believe it's a moot point. The NCAA has two standards. One for USC, Notre Dumb, Michigan and Ohio State and another one for everybody else.

In a case that most of you have probably never heard about, CU lost two scholarships and paid a $100,000 fine because a few walk-on football players were allowed to eat at the same training table as the scholarship athletes without paying the extra $1.50 that the training table meal costs as opposed to the dorm cafeteria food. That's right, CU was punished for feeding it's walk ons.

Now we get that USC has players flat out taking money from agents, and what do you think is going to happen?

The hyprocracy of the NCAA is palpable. It's a disgrace.

[Scott D]

That's my point. NCAA sanctions hit the program hard, but vacating wins, erasing stats and taking down banners only "rubs it in" and is the NCAA's weak attempt to punish those who actually cheated rather than everyone else who didn't. Problem is, the actual sanctions DO punish the ones who did not cheat while the cheaters likely could care less about records, stats or banners.

It's not like the Fab 5 had to refund any NBA money because of what they did in college. Until that happens, the NCAA can only come down on the schools, even though they are largely defenseless to prevent many violations (i.e. - Bomar).

actually Webber had to pay restitution of nearly $700k.

[soonerfan28]

How can anybody sit here and say that USC needs to vacate wins when Bush was there. Unless they can without a doubt prove that USC knew, then they shouldn't have to vacate anything. I agree they should erase any stat that Bush had, but we didn't have to vacate wins from the year that Blomar and his drunk friend were here.

[JohnnyMack]

I'd bet a $1 that the NCAA doesn't connect the dots back to SC on this Reggie Bush deal.

[Sooner_Havok]

How cam anybody sit here and say that USC needs to vacate wins when Bush was there. Unless they can without a doubt prove that USC knew then they shouldn't have to vacate anything. I agree they should erase any stat that Bush had, but we didn't have to vacate wins from the year that Blomar and his drunk friend were here.

I think it boils down to a fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, kind of thing.

You couldn't connect the dots that Bush was receiving inappropriate benefits when his correction officer pa was living in a big arse fancy house?, Ok, you lose some schollies. Don't let it happen again.

You couldn't figure out that O.J. Mayo was receiving inappropriate benefits when the dirt poor kid has a new car parked in his off campus house that is furnished with, among other things, a 42" plasma TV? Are you retarded or blatantly turning your nose to NCAA rules?

[soonerfan28]

I agree with the Mayo case, but Bush may be a little harder to prove that they knew. I guess if you say they knew about Mayo, but not Bush then that could be a lack of institutional control because they should have known, but with the Bush case it is very similar to Blomar.

[Taxman71]

actually Webber had to pay restitution of nearly $700k.

I believe Webber paid only $100k on the criminal contempt case only......not any NCAA sanctions.

[badger]

Your answer is $100K. (http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whitecollarcrime_blog/2005/09/chris_webber_pa.html)

Or is it really $650K??? (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E0D81F3DF932A35753C1A9659C8B 63)

:pop:

[badger]

Ok, fine your answer is this:


He was also fined $100,000, but he did not have to pay the $695,000 in restitution the university was seeking.
Linky (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/sports/basketball/04hoops.html)

:rolleyes:

[Cam]

How can anybody sit here and say that USC needs to vacate wins when Bush was there. Unless they can without a doubt prove that USC knew then they shouldn't have to vacate anything. I agree they should erase any stat that Bush had, but we didn't have to vacate wins from the year that Blomar and his drunk friend were here.

Fixed to protect the innocent. At least in this case.

[soonerfan28]

My bad.