Good Morning...Bold Allied Plan Stymies Army of Darkness

[Okla-homey]

June 6, 1944 Operation OVERLORD

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2324/temp0uq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

64 years ago on this day in 1944, Supreme Allied Commander General Dwight D. Eisenhower gives the go-ahead for largest amphibious military operation in history: Operation OVERLORD, aka: "D-Day," the Allied invasion of northern France.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6906/88199eu0dk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

By daybreak, 18,000 British and American paratroopers and glider troops were already on the ground. At 6:30 a.m., American troops came ashore at Utah and Omaha beaches.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8618/70x233x30lf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
British soldier reads Ike's letter provided to all invading troops after they had embarked for Normandy

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6373/eisenhowerddayorder8nv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The letter he's reading

At Omaha, the U.S. First Division battled high seas, mist, mines, burning vehicles-and German coastal batteries, including an elite infantry division, which spewed heavy fire. Many wounded Americans ultimately drowned in the high tide.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3047/dday1thumb3qc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

British divisions, which landed at Gold, and Sword beaches, and Canadian troops, landing at Juno beach, also met with heavy German fire, but by the end of the day they were able to push inland.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/596/pp154155rev8qe.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pp154155rev8qe.jpg)

Despite the German resistance, Allied casualties overall were relatively light. The United States and Britain each lost about 1,000 men, and Canada 355. Before the day was over, 155,000 Allied troops would be in Normandy. However, the United States managed to get only half of the 14,000 vehicles and a quarter of the 14,500 tons of supplies they intended on shore.

Three factors were decisive in the success of the Allied invasion.

First, German counterattacks were firm but sparse, enabling the Allies to create a broad beachhead, or advanced position, from which they were able to build up enormous troop strength.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1833/dday01klein1bq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Second, Allied air cover, which destroyed bridges over the Seine, forced the Germans to suffer long detours, and naval gunfire proved decisive in protecting the invasion troops.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7953/p47dday1hv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3235/410260vf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
All Allied aircraft taking part were painted with black&white "invasion stripes" so troops on the ground would know at a glance they were "good guys"

And third, division and confusion within the German ranks as to where the invasion would start and how best to defend their position helped the Allies. (Hitler, convinced another invasion was coming the next day east of the Seine River, refused to allow reserves to be pulled from that area.)

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4715/dsc000098bf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
WWII reenactor portraying one of the world's most dangerous men in 1944. A paratrooper of the 101st Airborne Division

While the operation was a decided success, considering the number of troops put ashore and relatively light casualties, improvisation by courageous and quick-witted commanders also played an enormous role.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/5681/eveningstandard7pi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The D-Day invasion has been the basis for several movies, from The Longest Day (1962), which boasted an all-star cast that included Richard Burton, Sean Connery, John Wayne, Robert Mitchum and pop star Fabian, to Saving Private Ryan (1998), which includes some of the most grippingly realistic war scenes ever filmed, captured in the style of the famous Robert Capa still photos of the actual invasion.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9631/euroafryt9.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Salute

[SoonerStormchaser]

The first thirty minutes of Saving Private Ryan still gets to me...

[ousoonerfan]

Freedom is awesome. Many thanks to you Homey and all who serve or have served in the armed forces.

[TexasLidig8r]

http://www.mazh.com/z1/pics/FR-Normandy-Colleville%20Cem1.jpg

Have never been to Normandy. That changes this year.

[JohnnyMack]

Just finished reading The Bedford Boys. A quick little read about a small town in Virginia and the price it had to pay. A good book. These guys were on one of the first LCVPs to hit the beach. Before what you saw in SPR, these guys landed on a still quiet beach as the light of day hadn't fully taken hold. They talk of the eerie quiet as they marched up the beach toward still hidden German pill boxes.

[12]

I never knew about the stripes painted on the aircraft. Cool stuff.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

http://www.mazh.com/z1/pics/FR-Normandy-Colleville%20Cem1.jpg

Have never been to Normandy. That changes this year.

You won't be disappointed! The reaction from the elderly French, made me proud. I also got to see an employee take an American family visiting their father to his grave - touching.

I would also recommend going to Pte. du Hoc (spelling?) where the Rangers climbed the cliffs. The bomb craters and gun emplacements are spectacular. Too bad there wern't any guns there during the invasion.

If you can. drive the roads, the towns are neat and it gives you a sense of what it was like. You will also need to bring home some Calvados - local apple brandy.

This time today, my Dad YMN-2 was on LST 721 manning twin 50-cal. waiting to beach in the afternoon to offload jeeps and tanks onto Omaha. Thanks Dad!

[ric311]

One of the most amazing things about visiting Normandy is the stark differences between the landing beaches. Sword, Juno, Gold and Utah are all just any other beach now. Yes, there are mementos and reminders of what happened there, but for the most part, they're simply beaches on the English Channel where people go and hang out. Not so at Omaha Beach. Omaha is a very, very serene place. Very few people walk on the beach (I did), and the American cemetary that overlooks the site gives you goosebumps.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I'm still gunning to go to Luxemborg to see Patton's grave...

...maybe if a GK assignment comes open, I'll get to.

[TUSooner]

Terrific, Homey.

Although it seems almost hokey in retrospect (and compared with the stunning gore od Saving Private Ryan") "The Longest Day is a movie I never switch away from when I see it on

I'm reading Churchill's "Hinge of Fate" and it's interesting to note that he really pushed for a 1943 invasion.

[Okla-homey]

and, not to politicize this thread, but people who say Iraq didn't need sorting out because they never attacked us p1ss me off. Neither did Hitler. But by gawd, we did what had to be done.

[Pink_Floyd]

and, not to politicize this thread, but people who say Iraq didn't need sorting out because they never attacked us p1ss me off. Neither did Hitler. But by gawd, we did what had to be done.

then by gawd where are 90% of amercians that wanted this war?
seems they are more interested in the economy,other things.the
war is running low at mere fourth place on the peoples hearts
lastest poll

[KC//CRIMSON]

and, not to politicize this thread, but people who say Iraq didn't need sorting out because they never attacked us p1ss me off. Neither did Hitler. But by gawd, we did what had to be done.

There's a pretty big difference between Hussein and Hitler. Just sayin.

[Pink_Floyd]

There's a pretty big difference between Hussein and Hitler. Just sayin.


our country has never came under attack.9-11
amercians wanted kick some butt
who or when was a matter of time.just talkin

[fadada1]

if you haven't read "the boys of pointe du hoc", i highly suggest it. only time in reading a book i teared up.

[Rogue]

Excellent GM post, Homey. I didn't know about the invasion stripes either, or the important role of the Army Air Corps at time. Or that it was called "Overlord."

Great find on the letter from Ike!

[Okla-homey]

There's a pretty big difference between Hussein and Hitler. Just sayin.

I'm not so sure. Just the size of their guns and the power of the dark forces they led.

A thief is still a thief whether he breaks into your house and makes off with everything you own or merely makes off with your brand new flat screen TV because that's all he can carry.

A murderer is still a murderer whether he malisciously kills a 90 y/o man who is sick and prolly gonna die within the year or a guy who is young and healthy.

More importantly, if the free world had had the stones to smack Hitler in '38, there would have been no need for June 6, 1944 and millions would not have suffered horrible deaths. Instead, we talked with him and negotiated a deal. You know, this political and diplomatic dialogue BHO advocates.

I'm not saying diplomacy is doomed to fail everytime. It's not. But, it must be conducted from a position of power and with no doubt by the other side that if diplomacy fails, hell is coming for breakfast.

Thus, to be effective, diplomacy must take the form of a sort of international extortion. Plain and simple. BTW, you won't read that written by anyone in the State Department, but notwithstanding that fact, its true.

[Shamrock]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3235/410260vf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
All Allied aircraft taking part were painted with black&white "invasion stripes" so troops on the ground would know at a glance they were "good guys"



We also did something similar in Desert Storm, by painting all the "allied" vehicles with an inverted black "V" (http://www.americanbrain.us/invertedv.html)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6963/invertv1mh2.jpg

[fadada1]

We also did something similar in Desert Storm, by painting all the "allied" vehicles with an inverted black "V" (http://www.americanbrain.us/invertedv.html)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6963/invertv1mh2.jpg

in the davinci code, that means "fallice". so i'm right, and you're wrong.:D ;)

[Pink_Floyd]

I'm not so sure. Just the size of their guns and the power of the dark forces they led.

A thief is still a thief whether he breaks into your house and makes off with everything you own or merely makes off with your brand new flat screen TV because that's all he can carry.

A murderer is still a murderer whether he malisciously kills a 90 y/o man who is sick and prolly gonna die within the year or a guy who is young and healthy.

More importantly, if the free world had had the stones to smack Hitler in '38, there would have been no need for June 6, 1944 and millions would not have suffered horrible deaths. Instead, we talked with him and negotiated a deal. You know, this political and diplomatic dialogue BHO advocates.

I'm not saying diplomacy is doomed to fail everytime. It's not. But, it must be conducted from a position of power and with no doubt by the other side that if diplomacy fails, hell is coming for breakfast.

Thus, to be effective, diplomacy must take the form of a sort of international extortion. Plain and simple. BTW, you won't read that written by anyone in the State Department, but notwithstanding that fact, its true.


your are the wise one Okla-homey

[proud gonzo]

22 posts and no "klaatu barata nikto" yet?

[SoonerStormchaser]

Huh?

[GottaHavePride]

Army of Darkness, dude.



By daybreak, 18,000 British and American paratroopers and glider troops were already on the ground.

Thanks, Grandpa GHP.

[JohnnyMack]

I'm not so sure. Just the size of their guns and the power of the dark forces they led.

A thief is still a thief whether he breaks into your house and makes off with everything you own or merely makes off with your brand new flat screen TV because that's all he can carry.

A murderer is still a murderer whether he malisciously kills a 90 y/o man who is sick and prolly gonna die within the year or a guy who is young and healthy.

More importantly, if the free world had had the stones to smack Hitler in '38, there would have been no need for June 6, 1944 and millions would not have suffered horrible deaths. Instead, we talked with him and negotiated a deal. You know, this political and diplomatic dialogue BHO advocates.

I'm not saying diplomacy is doomed to fail everytime. It's not. But, it must be conducted from a position of power and with no doubt by the other side that if diplomacy fails, hell is coming for breakfast.

Thus, to be effective, diplomacy must take the form of a sort of international extortion. Plain and simple. BTW, you won't read that written by anyone in the State Department, but notwithstanding that fact, its true.

By this logic, why aren't we invading every single dictator who is committing atrocities across the globe?

Germany's position in 1939 and Iraq's position in 2003 were light years apart and you know it. Germany was a massive goliath with incredible resources and a people that had been whipped up into a lather and told it was their time to take back what had been taken from them in the Great War. Iraq in 2003 was an emasculated shell of its former self. No navy or air force worth mentioning. The people had been held in check by a dictator who ruled through fear. A bully in the truest sense of the word.

The reason we went into Iraq was (as you have so often pointed out) in an effort to keep the war "over there" as opposed to on our soil. It was Mike Tyson vs. Lou Savarese. Something that would keep the people back home happy because the Bush administration was wise enough to know that it hadn't delivered the knockout of Al Qaida it had hoped to present it citizens and that "winning" the war on terrorism wasn't something that was likely to happen any time soon.

Our invading of Iraq in 2003 and our declaration of war against Nazi Germany couldn't be more different.

As an aside, what had Hitler done by 1938 that would have warranted our smacking him down? I guess Kristallnacht happened at the end of '38, and the Nazis had been segregating the Jews, cutting them out of political and social life, but hadn't committed atrocities at that point that would have warranted a neutral country invading it.

[Harry Beanbag]

As an aside, what had Hitler done by 1938 that would have warranted our smacking him down? I guess Kristallnacht happened at the end of '38, and the Nazis had been segregating the Jews, cutting them out of political and social life, but hadn't committed atrocities at that point that would have warranted a neutral country invading it.


I'm not comparing Germany to Iraq, but Hitler was showing his cards to anybody who was watching. The Night of the Long Knives was in 1934. By the end of 1938 he had broken the Treaty of Versailles and began rearmament, reoccupied the Rhineland, annexed Austria, and taken the Sudetenland. Oh, don't forget about the Spanish Civil War either.

[proud gonzo]

As an aside, what had Hitler done by 1938 that would have warranted our smacking him down? I guess Kristallnacht happened at the end of '38, and the Nazis had been segregating the Jews, cutting them out of political and social life, but hadn't committed atrocities at that point that would have warranted a neutral country invading it.um... you need to go back and review your German/European history. I think your timeline is missing a couple of things.

[Turd_Ferguson]

um... you need to go back and review your German/European history. I think your timeline is missing a couple of things.:pop:

[Okla-homey]

By this logic, why aren't we invading every single dictator who is committing atrocities across the globe?



because these things take time. be patient. ;)

naw, actually, sadly it seems the First World only gets p1ssed enough to do that sort of thing when white people are the victims of said atrocities. E.g., Hitler, Balkans, Arab-Israeli troubles.

C.f., Japanese occupation of China, the current mess in the Darfhur, Rwanda, Idi Amin and the rest of the gang of successor sub-Saharan tyrants

[SoonerJack]

Excellent D-Day post. Every time I read something about this historic event I learn something new. This time it was regarding the number of casualties.

[Okla-homey]

I never knew about the stripes painted on the aircraft. Cool stuff.

You know, it was actually kinda redundant. The krauts didn't have much to throw up against the Allies by this point.

One other point for my ground based comrades.

There was a military vehicle equivalent of the invasion stripes on planes.

Notice the white star with the ring around it at the head of this thread?

That ring was applied around the stars on everything that rolled in order to make it more prominent.

Before that, it was just the big white star national insignia.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5584/trhotchkisslq8.jpg
Invasion period...white ring designed to be obvious from the air so they wouldn't get shot up by the Allied air forces.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1484/truck1ye4.jpg
Contrast the above with the pre-invasion markings. No white ring on hood national insignia.

[Turd_Ferguson]

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1484/truck1ye4.jpg


Now I know damn good and well that I saw Klinger driving that thing at the 4077th!:D

[Veritas]

As an aside, what had Hitler done by 1938 that would have warranted our smacking him down? I guess Kristallnacht happened at the end of '38, and the Nazis had been segregating the Jews, cutting them out of political and social life, but hadn't committed atrocities at that point that would have warranted a neutral country invading it.
In a nutshell:
Neville Chamberlain, PM of Britain in 1938, was presented an opportunity by the group of Germans known as Schwarze Kapelle to stand up to Hitler's "Plan Yellow" to invade Czechoslovakia (sp?). Had Chamberlain responded to the execution of Plan Yellow with military action the conspirators (who listed as members Admiral Canaris, head of the Abwher since 1934 as well as a number of high ranking Wermacht generals) were prepared to imprison Hilter, Heydrich, Himmler, and Goering.

(I'm going off the top of my head here so forgive me if it wasn't called Plan Yellow or something...actually that was the one for France/Belgium IIRC).

But instead Chamberlain went the route of appeasement and one of the better chances to end WWII before it started was sacrificed.

[JohnnyMack]

um... you need to go back and review your German/European history. I think your timeline is missing a couple of things.

Thanks.

[JohnnyMack]

In a nutshell:
Neville Chamberlain, PM of Britain in 1938, was presented an opportunity by the group of Germans known as Schwarze Kapelle to stand up to Hitler's "Plan Yellow" to invade Czechoslovakia (sp?). Had Chamberlain responded to the execution of Plan Yellow with military action the conspirators (who listed as members Admiral Canaris, head of the Abwher since 1934 as well as a number of high ranking Wermacht generals) were prepared to imprison Hilter, Heydrich, Himmler, and Goering.

(I'm going off the top of my head here so forgive me if it wasn't called Plan Yellow or something...actually that was the one for France/Belgium IIRC).

But instead Chamberlain went the route of appeasement and one of the better chances to end WWII before it started was sacrificed.

As PG noted, I'm not an expert on this, but wasn't that land that had been kind of a toss up in terms who actually could claim it and who populated it? Wasn't this land that had been carved up and shifted around after the Great War?

I guess my point is that using the annexation of the sudetenland along with some events like kristallnacht and the night of long knives all did as Harry noted make it somewhat evident that Hitler was trying to take back what he thought was his, but wouldn't invading Germany at that time be akin to France invading Mexico during the Mexican-American war?

[Curly Bill]

One could simpy have read Mein Kampf published in 1924 to see what Hitler's ideas were and the plans he proposed for Germany and the rest of Europe. No one should have been surprised at what he eventually did.

[JohnnyMack]

I agree. To a point. I think it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback with 70 years between you and the events we're talking about.

[Scott D]

One could simpy have read Mein Kampf published in 1924 to see what Hitler's ideas were and the plans he proposed for Germany and the rest of Europe. No one should have been surprised at what he eventually did.

In 1924, he was seen as nothing more than on the fringe at best. It wasn't until the plan was perfected to play on the fears of the masses that he ascended to power first within the party, then within the country.

[Veritas]

As PG noted, I'm not an expert on this, but wasn't that land that had been kind of a toss up in terms who actually could claim it and who populated it? Wasn't this land that had been carved up and shifted around after the Great War?
Czechoslovakia? Not at all, it was a democractic republic of sorts.

Oh and your original question was "what had Hitler done in 1938 to warrant our smacking him down?" Assuming that "our" refers to the US, the correct answer is "nothing." The appeasement-oriented regime headed by Chamberlain bore that responsibility...and that's not 70 years worth of hindsight, he was forced to resign and was of course succeeded by Churchill.

[Harry Beanbag]

I agree. To a point. I think it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback with 70 years between you and the events we're talking about.


Sure it's easy now, but it wasn't really all that difficult at the time either. European leaders were just too squeamish after WWI to do anything about it. That is what can happen when one side doesn't realize they are actually at war already while their enemies are playing them for fools and whipping their butts, even if it's without firing a shot.

This is recommended reading:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3c/5d/fc9e619009a082a42dbd4110._AA240_.L.jpg

[TheHumanAlphabet]

There's a pretty big difference between Hussein and Hitler. Just sayin.

Not to add, but Hussein was a student of Hitler and fashioned himself in the same like. He studied Mein Kampf and fashioned his thugs around the SS.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

We also did something similar in Desert Storm, by painting all the "allied" vehicles with an inverted black "V" (http://www.americanbrain.us/invertedv.html)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6963/invertv1mh2.jpg

Dad told me the invasion stripes and in the inverted V was to help in friendly fire. Apparently his LST at Anzio or North Africa (I forget which) shot down an Allied plane. This was before he joined the vessel in England, but everyone was telling him about it as he manned a twin 50.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You know, it was actually kinda redundant. The krauts didn't have much to throw up against the Allies by this point.



Dad said he didn't have anything to fire at during the whole campaign. He never fired his guns other than to test them.

[Curly Bill]

Sure it's easy now, but it wasn't really all that difficult at the time either. European leaders were just too squeamish after WWI to do anything about it. That is what can happen when one side doesn't realize they are actually at war already while their enemies are playing them for fools and whipping their butts, even if it's without firing a shot.

This is recommended reading:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3c/5d/fc9e619009a082a42dbd4110._AA240_.L.jpg

Read it, and it is quite the long read.

[JohnnyMack]

I will admit to having failed to have read that.

[soonerboomer93]

i have no idea if i've read it or not

i have a few dozen books on the subject from when I was at OU (and then some other stuff I've collected over time)

[Harry Beanbag]

Read it, and it is quite the long read.


C'mon, it's only 1147 pages. :) Well worth it though.

[Harry Beanbag]

I will admit to having failed to have read that.


It's never too late, I think you would enjoy it. It's on my personal top ten list of books everyone should read at some point in their life.

[JohnnyMack]

I read about a hundred pages of Europe Central by Vollman. Then I got distracted. You ever try that?

[Scott D]

heh i read that when i was 10. I think it's on my bookshelf to be honest, right next to the Wotan Warhead.

[Harry Beanbag]

I read about a hundred pages of Europe Central by Vollman. Then I got distracted. You ever try that?

No. What's it about?

[JohnnyMack]

http://contemporarylit.about.com/od/historicalfictionreviews/fr/europeCentral.htm

Won the National Book Award a few years back:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/books/17books.html

If you want to borrow it, I'm fairly stacked up right now and probably won't be getting to it any time soon.

[Curly Bill]

C'mon, it's only 1147 pages. :) Well worth it though.

Agreed!

[Harry Beanbag]

http://contemporarylit.about.com/od/historicalfictionreviews/fr/europeCentral.htm

Won the National Book Award a few years back:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/books/17books.html

If you want to borrow it, I'm fairly stacked up right now and probably won't be getting to it any time soon.


Nah, there's no way I have time to tackle something like that right now.

[JohnnyMack]

What's that? Baby keeping you up? :D

[Harry Beanbag]

What's that? Baby keeping you up? :D

Something like that. :)

[Scott D]

he's been watching Das Boot every night ;)

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/141502/

Interesting article that relates to what we were talking about.