WORLDs LARGeST KORNFEDERATE FLAIG!111!1

[Okla-homey]

<cue "Dixie">

YEE HAW!!! That'll show 'em! We got our rahtts and we is gonna stick it to them haterz real good with this here eeenormus Rebel flaig!:D


Confederate group plans giant flag in Hillsborough County
By Jessica Vander Velde

TAMPA — Next year, a giant Confederate flag may tower above the tree line near the junction of Interstate 75 and Interstate 4.

The Sons of Confederate Veterans wants drivers in the Tampa area to see the massive flag — 30 feet high and 50 feet long — atop a 139-foot pole, the highest the Federal Aviation Authority would allow. It would be lit at night.

With the pole already in the ground and building permits in hand, the group is on its way to having what it calls the "world's largest" Confederate flag in place by mid 2009. The group just needs about $30,000 more, said Douglas Dawson, Florida division commander.

Several nearby business owners don't mind. It's history, they say, and it's on private property. The flag will be flown on Interstate 75 along U.S. 92 E.

Just seems to me that money could do far more good maintaining Confederate gravesites or for battlefield preservation. But, that would'nt have any "in your face" shock value. I lament the fact the SCV lost its way a little over a decade ago when it was overrun by klansmen who wear blazers and neckties instead of sheets.

[OKC-SLC]

So juvenile.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Damn yankee.
http://unitedstatesamericanflags.com/images/battle_flag_1024x768.gif

[Okla-homey]

So juvenile.

Indeed. (like the post immediately above this one.);)

[Harry Beanbag]

http://www.8thvirginiareg.org/Flag%20004R.jpg

[Harry Beanbag]

http://www.roadtrip-life.com/fullImages/tnRebel.jpg

[Harry Beanbag]

http://www.confederatemercantile.com/063.jpg

[Flagstaffsooner]

What is juvenile is damned yankees not wanting us to allow us express OUR pride of our heritage and history.

[Okla-homey]

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6973/img1238mf7.jpg
Excuse me suh, if you will help me remove my boots, I'll give you a quartuh. I'm plumb tuckered from chasing runaway slaves;)

[sooneron]

Wouldn't this be more apropos in the "It's over. We Lost. Stop The War." thread?

:D

[sooneron]

And, where the **** is Sic'em?

[Chuck Bao]

<cue "Dixie">

Just seems to me that money could do far more good maintaining Confederate gravesites or for battlefield preservation. But, that would'nt have any "in your face" shock value. I lament the fact the SCV lost its way a little over a decade ago when it was overrun by klansmen who wear blazers and neckties instead of sheets.

I'm really loving on Homey in this thread. That's real respect.

[olevetonahill]

Indeed. (like the post immediately above this one.);)

You are Correct Suh, That Flag aint got it right
Its "Dayum Yankee Suh ":D

[Rogue]

$30k "more"? WTF for, imported silk?

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm really loving on Homey in this thread.


Does Homey have a purdy mouth?

[olevetonahill]

Does Homey have a purdy mouth?

I never Paid that close attention . But his asz aint Bad :hot:

[Turd_Ferguson]

I never Paid that close attention . But his asz aint Bad :hot:Oh good Lord, I don't think I'd of told that:D

[olevetonahill]

$30k "more"? WTF for, imported silk?

Dumas, Its fer the Beer and Shine ;)

[olevetonahill]

Oh good Lord, I don't think I'd of told that:D

You aint Nevar saw His *** Have you ? :D

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm really loving on Homey in this thread. That's real respect.

They already maintain monuments and gravesites. That's 99% of what the SCV, CofC, and UDC do.

My SCV chapter just recently acquired a spot of land just off I-35 and are planning to put up a monument and flag that can be seen from the interstate.

[SicEmBaylor]

It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest to tell someone it's juvenile when they promote their own history when you do the EXACT same thing every damned morning. It's even more intellectually dishonest to attack someone's values and history (which has happened here and elsewhere) and then get ****ed off at you when you try to defend it.

Frankly, I'm getting pretty ****ing sick of it. I have never and will never disparage the sacrifice of Union troops like many here and elsewhere do to the Southern soldiers. I don't agree with the Union's purpose but they fought honorably, won, and should be remembered and respected for their service.

I will never ever apologize or be made to feel bad for the service that my ancestors and their compatriots gave to their state and nation.

[CORNholio]

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6973/img1238mf7.jpg
Excuse me suh, if you will help me remove my boots, I'll give you a quartuh. I'm plumb tuckered from chasing runaway slaves;)



Since when did pirates fight for the confederacy?

[olevetonahill]

And, where the **** is Sic'em?

You Had to ASK :eek:

[olevetonahill]

It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest to tell someone it's juvenile when they promote their own history when you do the EXACT same thing every damned morning. It's even more intellectually dishonest to attack someone's values and history (which has happened here and elsewhere) and then get ****ed off at you when you try to defend it.

Frankly, I'm getting pretty ****ing sick of it. I have never and will never disparage the sacrifice of Union troops like many here and elsewhere do to the Southern soldiers. I don't agree with the Union's purpose but they fought honorably, won, and should be remembered and respected for their service.

I will never ever apologize or be made to feel bad for the service that my ancestors and their compatriots gave to their state and nation.

So Sicem I gots a serious question . Ok ?
I have Family that Fought way Back when this young country was Trying to start . Ok ?
My Family split during the CW, I love em all . I Honor em all.
My Dad , 2 Of MY Uncle's , Fought thru WW2. Ive Got Family Members , that Hit Inchon, Hue and all Points In between.
My Son Was One of the 1st to go Into Boznia , In 95 . He turned around and went In on the InVasion Of Iraq
Please Dont Give Me any Shat about FAMILY OK ?
My Family has Shed Blood From sea to shining sea !
I say Dayum Yankee , I could also say Dayum Greycoats :rolleyes:
Back Off Ok ?
:mad:
Sic you dont **** the Olevet off Very often But you Just did !:mad:

[olevetonahill]

Oh and ONE other Point I missed
Join UP , If your Gonna spout Off about Service !:D
Love Ya, ya lil ******* !:pop:

[Blue]

nm

[olevetonahill]

There's nothing honorable about yankees. They're the most racist people I've ever met.

You pretty Much got that right.
At the Time they Hated On the Blacks as Much If Not worse than Johhny Reb.
Read about the Riots In NYC during that Time :mad:
Neither side was Perfect !

[Okla-homey]

It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest to tell someone it's juvenile when they promote their own history when you do the EXACT same thing every damned morning. It's even more intellectually dishonest to attack someone's values and history (which has happened here and elsewhere) and then get ****ed off at you when you try to defend it.

Frankly, I'm getting pretty ****ing sick of it. I have never and will never disparage the sacrifice of Union troops like many here and elsewhere do to the Southern soldiers. I don't agree with the Union's purpose but they fought honorably, won, and should be remembered and respected for their service.

I will never ever apologize or be made to feel bad for the service that my ancestors and their compatriots gave to their state and nation.

Look. I'm of Germanic descent. My family are members of a German-American Society. That organization flies flags out of cultural pride. However, that organization doesn't fly any of the flags of the Third Reich. Using your logic, we should proudly do so because, well, heck, they were German flags. That, and the fact a lot of good boys died under them defending their country. Not all German soldaten were Nazis or concentration camp guards you know.

But we don't. Because, although this is America and we have a right to do so, those symbols are associated with a terrible period of history and some very bad ideas about one group of human beings' absolute rights over another group of human beings. That and the fact that symbol is offensive to many people.

Rather like the Confederate Naval Ensign is offensive to most people of color in the world. Not so much because of the fact some CS soldiers and sailors fought and died under it, but because beginning in the 1950's it was the main flag under which the forces of apartheid fought against the granting of equal rights to their fellow Southerners because of the color of their skin.

There are German soldiers buried in little cemeteries around Oklahoma, Arkie and Kansas near the site of WWII PW camps. The flags we put on their graves are the modern flag of the Republic of Germany. Not the Third Reich.

Personally, I consider Confederate soldiers American soldiers. If they are to have a flag over their grave on Memorial Day, it should be an American one. You know, the one with stars for every state.

One more thing. The SCV used to be about preservation of historic places and soldiers graves. I know, I was once a member. I joined before you were born. I stopped being one when it became a club for people who merely wanted to make black folks angry and for folks who pine for the old days of white rule over all and sundry to the total exclusion of people of color.

[SicEmBaylor]

So Sicem I gots a serious question . Ok ?
I have Family that Fought way Back when this young country was Trying to start . Ok ?
My Family split during the CW, I love em all . I Honor em all.
My Dad , 2 Of MY Uncle's , Fought thru WW2. Ive Got Family Members , that Hit Inchon, Hue and all Points In between.
My Son Was One of the 1st to go Into Boznia , In 95 . He turned around and went In on the InVasion Of Iraq
Please Dont Give Me any Shat about FAMILY OK ?
My Family has Shed Blood From sea to shining sea !
I say Dayum Yankee , I could also say Dayum Greycoats :rolleyes:
Back Off Ok ?
:mad:
Sic you dont **** the Olevet off Very often But you Just did !:mad:

Vet, I can't imagine what it is that I said that you obviously find offense to. I never said anything negative about your family or anyone else's. What exactly am I backing off from?

I'm quite honestly perplexed and confused.

[SicEmBaylor]

Look. I'm of Germanic descent. My family are members of a German-American Society. That organization flies flags out of cultural pride. However, that organization doesn't fly any of the flags of the Third Reich. Using your logic, we should proudly do so because, well, heck, they were German flags. That, and the fact a lot of good boys died under them defending their country. Not all German soldaten were Nazis or concentration camp guards you know.

I can not believe that you honestly mean to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany. I'm assuming that this is an innocent comparison and you're not trying to draw any serious connection between the two.


But we don't. Because, although this is America and we have a right to do so, those symbols are associated with a terrible period of history and some very bad ideas about one group of human beings' absolute rights over another group of human beings. That and the fact that symbol is offensive to many people.

I empathize with that, but that's more their problem than it is ours. The purpose in promoting the flag, is in part, to educate the public about our cause and the flag as a symbol of heritage rather than hate (that term is so cliche that I can't believe I just used it).


Rather like the Confederate Naval Ensign is offensive to most people of color in the world. Not so much because of the fact some CS soldiers and sailors fought and died under it, but because beginning in the 1950's it was the main flag under which the forces of apartheid fought against the granting of equal rights to their fellow Southerners because of the color of their skin.

I'm in full agreement with you on that point. It's a fair one that I'm not oblivious to, but I'd like to reiterate my previous point. Those who legitimately view the flag as a symbol of heritage are most often the first to condemn those who use its symbolism inappropriately. I get physically ill when I see it used by racist organizations.


There are German soldiers buried in little cemeteries around Oklahoma, Arkie and Kansas near the site of WWII PW camps. The flags we put on their graves are the modern flag of the Republic of Germany. Not the Third Reich.

Personally, I consider Confederate soldiers American soldiers. If they are to have a flag over their grave on Memorial Day, it should be an American one. You know, the one with stars for every state.

Now this is just down right absurd. Would you the Union Jack on the grave of Revolutionary war soldiers?


One more thing. The SCV used to be about preservation of historic places and soldiers graves. I know, I was once a member. I joined before you were born. I stopped being one when it became a club for people who merely wanted to make black folks angry and for folks who pine for the old days of white rule over all and sundry to the total exclusion of people of color.

Every organization has its crazies, but I most certainly would not say that they constitute the overwhelming majority. Before I was a member of the SCV, I was a member of the CofC. I served as both a Chapter President, A Division (State) President, and as national officer. I routinely went to meetings at every level of the sister organizations of the UDC and SCV even before I became a member. In all that time I only heard ONE racist remark and it was by a 90+ year old member of the UDC. A young black guy walked by with pants almost to his ankles and she made an off color remark about segregation. I have NEVER EVER heard anyone in the CofC or SCV make such a remark. The only other incident that I witnessed which was entirely inappropriate was by an SCV member who was helping us set up our CofC national convention stage. We were putting the American Flag up and he said, "Wouldn't it be great if that flag just fell over?" Everyone present was aghast and it was the subject of many conversations that day and everyone to a person condemned the remark and found it disgusting. As I said, every group has a few crazies. As for the CofC, hell I knew one girl who was even dating a black guy and I can't remember anyone saying too much about it other than "Couldn't she have found a CofC member to date?" The CofC members of my generation were by far the most progressive of any of the three organizations and they'll be the ones running both the UDC and SCV in a few years.

[SicEmBaylor]

http://www.scv.org/documents/2006ResolutionBattleflag.jpg

[Okla-homey]

Every organization has its crazies, but I most certainly would not say that they constitute the overwhelming majority. Before I was a member of the SCV, I was a member of the CofC. I served as both a Chapter President, A Division (State) President, and as national officer. I routinely went to meetings at every level of the sister organizations of the UDC and SCV even before I became a member. In all that time I only heard ONE racist remark and it was by a 90+ year old member of the UDC. A young black guy walked by with pants almost to his ankles and she made an off color remark about segregation. I have NEVER EVER heard anyone in the CofC or SCV make such a remark. The only other incident that I witnessed which was entirely inappropriate was by an SCV member who was helping us set up our CofC national convention stage. We were putting the American Flag up and he said, "Wouldn't it be great if that flag just fell over?" Everyone present was aghast and it was the subject of many conversations that day and everyone to a person condemned the remark and found it disgusting. As I said, every group has a few crazies. As for the CofC, hell I knew one girl who was even dating a black guy and I can't remember anyone saying too much about it other than "Couldn't she have found a CofC member to date?" The CofC members of my generation were by far the most progressive of any of the three organizations and they'll be the ones running both the UDC and SCV in a few years.

With all due respect, you should spend some time around SCV folks in the Deep South. Places like SC and Alabama like I have. The "hell no, I ain't fergettin'" racist a-holes substantially outnumber the gentlemen. That said, the "League of the South" is definitely worse. It is almost exclusively populated with very scary people. Thus SCV>LOS. That LOS organization, IMHO, stands for the proposition that the current government of the United States is illegal and advocates a second attempt at secession.

Finally, proclamations notwithstanding, the damage is done. You will never "regain" that symbol. It is too sullied. Moreover, you shouldn't try. No matter how you paint it, it represents a failed ideal. One in which human beings were considered personal property.
Such proclomations are simply like putting lipstick on a pig.

Waving that flag in public merely serves to inflame and pick off scabs from wounds that should be left alone and allowed to heal.

If you must, use this one instead. The Daughters are smarter. Its the one they use in their official UDC logo. To date, it has not been missapropriated by the Klan, etc.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/504/starbar1nb5.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3807/udclogohq2.gif

[SicEmBaylor]

Thus SCV>LOS. That LOS organization, IMHO, stands for the proposition that the current government of the United States is illegal and advocates a second attempt at secession.

You're right about all the above.

[Blue]

nm

[olevetonahill]

My point young Bro
Its Over Get a grip ok ?
I welcome the Germans that where a Part of History.
\ I didnt have Germanic Family .
I Do have American, that Have Fought for this Great Land .
My Great Grandpa Is Buried In Ark .4TH Inf. ark. Volunteers . C.S.A.
My other Great Granpa Is Buried at Manassas(Sp) U.S.A.
What Im sayin Is Give It up the War Between the States Is way Over.
The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Are United , Deal with it
Do I need to Tell you about the Yankees (In My Family) that Fell at Concord ?
. Omaha Beatch,:( Quadacanal? Inchon ? Hue ?Banmethout ?Pleakue ? Phu Hip.
Etc. ?
:(

[olevetonahill]

Oh And "Im proud to be an American "

[SicEmBaylor]

Oh And "Im proud to be an American "

Don't think that any of this means that I'm not. I love this country as much as any man could.

[sooneron]

Don't think that any of this means that I'm not. I love this country as much as any man-child could.

fixed:texan:

[sooneron]

I bet Homey would shat his BVD's if he had to live the life he so adamantly defends. You lived in the south? So what. The south is the most tolerant because we live with each other every day. The north and ignorant pc'ists make it more than it is.

If those f'ers in OK and OH had to "intermingle" on a regular basis they would lose their ****.

I must have missed your point in this. I am :confused: .

[JohnnyMack]

Some of you people never cease to amaze me at how far you can cram your head into the sand.

[sooner_born_1960]

World's largest confederate flag, World's largest ball of yarn, World's largest onion burger... Who really cares? And why?

[mdklatt]

I will never ever apologize or be made to feel bad for the service that my ancestors and their compatriots gave to their state and nation.

There's a difference between honoring individual soldiers for their service, and honoring what they were fighting for. The Germans honor their WW II veterans without waving around a swastika.

[SicEmBaylor]

There's a difference between honoring individual soldiers for their service, and honoring what they were fighting for. The Germans honor their WW II veterans without waving around a swastika.

I honor both because I believe in both. I find it disgusting that anyone would equate the Confederacy with Nazism.

[mdklatt]

I honor both because I believe in both. I find it disgusting that anyone would equate the Confederacy with Nazism.

Slavery vs. genocide--call it a difference of degree rather than a difference of kind. Both are reprehensible, and nothing to be proud of.

[JohnnyMack]

Slavery vs. genocide--call it a difference of degree rather than a difference of kind. Both are reprehensible, and nothing to be proud of.

:les:THEY WERE BEING AGGRESSED UPON!!!!!!!

[SicEmBaylor]

Slavery vs. genocide--call it a difference of degree rather than a difference of kind. Both are reprehensible, and nothing to be proud of.

Agreed, thank God it wasn't over slavery.

[JohnnyMack]

Agreed, thank God it wasn't over slavery.

:les:THEY WERE BEING AGGRESSED UPON!!!!!!!

[mdklatt]

Agreed, thank God it wasn't over slavery.

Yeah, and the American Revolution was all about the price of tea.

[sooneron]

and here we go .....







again

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah, and the American Revolution was all about the price of tea.

It's the same sort of deal. The tax on tea was, as slavery, a manifestation of a much larger problem.

[JohnnyMack]

:les:THEY WERE BEING AGGRESSED UPON!!!!!!!

[LosAngelesSooner]

I hope that the day after the flag is raised, somebody dynamites the stupid seditious flag.

Sore losers.

[LosAngelesSooner]

It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest to tell someone it's juvenile when they promote their own history when you do the EXACT same thing every damned morning. It's even more intellectually dishonest to attack someone's values and history (which has happened here and elsewhere) and then get ****ed off at you when you try to defend it.

Frankly, I'm getting pretty ****ing sick of it. I have never and will never disparage the sacrifice of Union troops like many here and elsewhere do to the Southern soldiers. I don't agree with the Union's purpose but they fought honorably, won, and should be remembered and respected for their service.

I will never ever apologize or be made to feel bad for the service that my ancestors and their compatriots gave to their state and nation.
Yeah. Those poor Nazi soldiers should be allowed to fly the swastika in celebration of THEIR history as well.

Poor Nazis. Will nobody ever understand how much they've been persecuted for the past 60 years. :rolleyes:


I honor both because I believe in both. I find it disgusting that anyone would equate the Confederacy with Nazism.
Tell that to the millions of blacks who were bred and caged like animals, killed or beaten at their owner's whim, lynched, bought, sold...

At least the Nazi's tried to HIDE what they were doing. The Southern Slave owners and those who fought to allow slavery to continue thought what they were doing was not only right, but THEIR right.

They were JUST as bad and to say otherwise is to deny the cold hard truth of history.

[Frozen Sooner]

Saying that the Civil War wasn't about slavery then turning around and implying that World War II was about the Holocaust is completely intellectually dishonest.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Saying that the Civil War wasn't about slavery then turning around and implying that World War II was about the Holocaust is completely intellectually dishonest.
So is calling yourself a "traditional Republican" and then turning around and defending the Southern Seditionists and their pro-slavery stance.

But it's Sic'em. Sic'em is a hypocritical statement waiting to happen. ;)

[soonerscuba]

Remember the massive diaspora to urban areas in the South as a result of decades of Northern policy toward black people? Me neither.

The history speaks for itself, the South was never noble in it's cause, it was a coalition of traitors that doesn't deserve our reverence. If my heritage was treason, I would want to bury it and move on.

[SicEmBaylor]

Saying that the Civil War wasn't about slavery then turning around and implying that World War II was about the Holocaust is completely intellectually dishonest.
I never said WWII was about the holocaust.

So is calling yourself a "traditional Republican" and then turning around and defending the Southern Seditionists and their pro-slavery stance.

But it's Sic'em. Sic'em is a hypocritical statement waiting to happen. ;)

I've never said I'm a traditional Republican -- I've said that I'm a traditional conservative.

[JohnnyMack]

I never said WWII was about the holocaust.


I don't think he was talking about you princess.

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't think he was talking about you princess.

I assumed he was since I'm the only one who claimed the war wasn't about slavery.

[JohnnyMack]

I assumed he was since I'm the only one who claimed the war wasn't about slavery.

Oh. Maybe he was. I don't really pay much attention.

[JohnnyMack]

Civil War = Was NOT about slavery

World War II = Was NOT about the Holocaust

Both were byproducts of each, but neither was the primary reason for going to war.

[SicEmBaylor]

Civil War = Was NOT about slavery

World War II = Was NOT about the Holocaust

Both were byproducts of each, but neither was the primary reason for going to war.

I would add that the Iraq war was NOT about liberating the Iraqis.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

BLOOD FOR OIL OMG WTF LOL HOHO

[Chuck Bao]

Civil War = Was NOT about slavery

World War II = Was NOT about the Holocaust

Both were byproducts of each, but neither was the primary reason for going to war.

And, I thought the winner always gets to say what it was all about.

Okay, if that doesn't work for you. How about the landed gentry in the South feeling ethnically and morally superior and the Germans and Japanese feeling ethnically and morally superior?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

George W. Bush is german.

http://members.cox.net/firemanat25s/gwbpirate.jpg

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRr

[SicEmBaylor]

And, I thought the winner always gets to say what it was all about.

Okay, if that doesn't work for you. How about the landed gentry in the South feeling ethnically and morally superior and the Germans and Japanese feeling ethnically and morally superior?

Except Chuck, you forget, that nearly all of New England also felt they were ethnically and morally superior to other races except for a select few radical abolitionists.

Lincoln himself said as much many times.

[Chuck Bao]

But, Sic'em, there were free states? No?

To say that "Northern Aggressors" were racist is probably a pretty safe bet. There are many documented cases of prejuidice against the Irish and Italians and Jews, etc. I just don't find the idea that these documented cases of prejudice would justify the slave-owning states continuing their slavery. Nope.

[soonerscuba]

Except Chuck, you forget, that nearly all of New England also felt they were ethnically and morally superior to other races except for a select few radical abolitionists.

Lincoln himself said as much many times.
Huh? You say radical abolitionist as if it's a bad thing. Also, the abolitionist movement was much larger than you give it credit for, given that it existed at the outset of the country, also the western territories which a major point of contention as to their slave or free status. The SC Declaration of Secession suggests that the Fed. Gov't move on their human property is the reason for trying to leave the country. Granted, I will give you that it's very debatable as to whether or not a state could secede legally, but morally the South was in the hole, and no amount of revisionism will change the fact that men died to preserve slaves.

[Animal Mother]

:les:THEY WERE BEING AGGRESSED UPON!!!!!!!

Talk to his hand 'cause his ears ain't gonna hear!!

[Harry Beanbag]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Abraham_Lincoln_half_length_seated,_April_10,_1865 .jpg

[Animal Mother]

And before I head to I-35, can we impose a ban on "intellectually dishonest" ??

I think that grates almost as much as "irregardless" and that isn't even a word.

[Animal Mother]

Hey Abe!!!

You're taking up all the bandwidth!!!! Or someone doesn't know how to reduce.

[Harry Beanbag]

Sorry, that's the biggest one I could find. It seemed appropriate in this thread. :)

[SicEmBaylor]

And before I head to I-35, can we impose a ban on "intellectually dishonest" ??

I think that grates almost as much as "irregardless" and that isn't even a word.

Uh...you're right. It's two words....

[Okla-homey]

Lets be clear about one thing folks. The Civil War's causes were many. However, the Civil War's principal, proximate, main, "but for", numero uno, big cahuna, numba one, biggest, cause was the "seceding" states desire to ensure the continued existence of human chattel slavery because it was on that "peculiar institution" their economy depended.

Put another way, had there been no slavery in existence in the United States during the nineteenth century, there would have been no war.

As exhibits, I would offer each one of the eleven Ordinances of Secession ratified by the secession conventions of the seceding states and their accompanying Declaration of Causes. I would also point out that no "free" state seceded. Only slave-holding states seceded.

As an example, take a look at the Ordinance of Secession from our neighbor Texas. Note: the "property" referred to is people, not cows or Shiner beer.



AN ORDINANCE

To dissolve the Union between the State of Texas and the other States united under the Compact styled "the Constitution of the United States of America."

WHEREAS, The Federal Government has failed to accomplish the purposes of the compact of union between these States, in giving protection either to the persons of our people upon an exposed frontier, or to the property of our citizens, and

WHEREAS, the action of the Northern States of the Union is violative of the compact between the States and the guarantees of the Constitution; and,

WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression; THEREFORE,

SECTION 1.-- We, the people of the State of Texas, by delegates in convention assembled, do declare and ordain that the ordinance adopted by our convention of delegates on the 4th day of July, A.D. 1845, and afterwards ratified by us, under which the Republic of Texas was admitted into the Union with other States, and became a party to the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America," be, and is hereby, repealed and annulled; that all the powers which, by the said compact, were delegated by Texas to the Federal Government are revoked and resumed; that Texas is of right absolved from all restraints and obligations incurred by said compact, and is a separate sovereign State, and that her citizens and people are absolved from all allegiance to the United States or the government thereof.

SEC. 2. This ordinance shall be submitted to the people of Texas for their ratification or rejection, by the qualified voters, on the 23rd day of February, 1861, and unless rejected by a majority of the votes cast, shall take effect and be in force on and after the 2d day of March, A.D. 1861. PROVIDED, that in the Representative District of El Paso said election may be held on the 18th day of February, 1861.

Done by the people of the State of Texas, in convention assembled, at Austin, this 1st day of February, A.D. 1861.

[Ratified Feb. 23, 1861 by a vote of 46,153 for and 14,747 against]

==========*****==========

Now, have a look at this extract from the "Declaration of Causes" for the seceding states' secession. Remember, this declaration was drafted contemporaneously by each state's secession convention.

Mississippi's is typical:


Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Check out SC's:


We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution.

The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution.

The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

[Tear Down This Wall]

These Confederate Flag people need to be flown to a small island and left there...with there ridiculous Flag of the Losing Side.

Because, that's really what the Confederate Flag says...we support the losers.

As I've said before, why not fly the Nazi flag, since American also defeated the Nazis. Or, the Hammer and Sickle of the old Soviet Union since we won the cold war and they sucked it.

Go ahead, losers, fly your big flag of losing to the U.S.A. Fly it. Knock back a few beers. Dress up like a confederate soldiers. Go down to Wal-mart, buy some batteries, pop a Lynyrd Skynyrd cassette tape into the old jambox in your garage.

Dickwheels.

[C&CDean]

I couldn't care less, but it's always the pinkos who go "freedom of speech" when somebody burns an American flag or ****s on one and calls it "art."

Let em' fly their flag. Who gives a ****? I have to tolerate highway signage and labeling in spanish, African and Mexican flags on the back windows of vehicles, Fred Phelps protesters, mosques on every corner, gay pride parades, NOW protesters, anti-war geeks, and a buttload of other crap; all of which I find offensive. Why are these goobers any different than the rest of the fringe whackos I've mentioned above? Nobody should care about their stupid flag.

[Frozen Sooner]

It is rare I agree with TDTW. This is one of those times.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I have to tolerate highway signage and labeling in spanish, African and Mexican flags on the back windows of vehicles, Fred Phelps protesters, mosques on every corner, gay pride parades, NOW protesters, anti-war geeks, and a buttload of other crap; all of which I find offensive.I really don't know how you bear it.

Your life is so hard. :(



;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Dean, so far as I know nobody's arguing here that it should be illegal to display a Confederate flag, simply that anyone who flies one is a dillweed.

Much like anyone who burns an American flag is a dillweed, but it shouldn't be illegal. No inconsistency from the "pinkos" here.

[StoopTroup]

Someday, I would like to make sweet sweet love to my Wife on a big Kornfederate Flag.

I wonder if there's any Vacation Spots that offer a weekend like that for Married Adults who are looking to surprise their loved one with a getaway weekend. ;)

[OUinFLA]

Someday, I would like to make sweet sweet love to my Wife on a big Kornfederate Flag.

I wonder if there's any Vacation Spots that offer a weekend like that for Married Adults who are looking to surprise their loved one with a getaway weekend. ;)

Your wildest dreams come true (http://www.theconfederatehouse.com/index.html)

[Stitch Face]

World's Largest Bandwidth Thread

[JohnnyMack]

Someday, I would like to make sweet sweet love to my Wife on a big Kornfederate Flag.

I wonder if there's any Vacation Spots that offer a weekend like that for Married Adults who are looking to surprise their loved one with a getaway weekend. ;)

1. Buy a Kornfederate Flag.

2. Buy a trip up in that guys plane who provides an intimate "mile high club" experience.

3. Once airborne, unroll the flag and tap that *** like you're Sherman and she's Atlanta.

YWIA.

[sooneron]

It is rare I agree with TDTW. This is one of those times.

Same here!

Losers! YOu lost! STFU! Actually, your great great great grand papappies lost. Get the **** over it. They lost. They didn't just run out of ammo, they got whipped. Go find something else that offends you. It appears that Dean has a list to choose from.
Mosques on every corner? C'mon Dean, we know where you live. (that was ovah the top)

[badger]

The swastika was once a religious symbol and a universal symbol for luck. Now, it's a banned symbol in Germany and often associated with anti-Semitism and one of the darkest moments in recent humanity. There are few who still respect it for its original symbolism.

The Confederate flag is by no means thought of as badly as the swastika... to some people. It is now banned in some places where it was once welcomed and waved proudly by southerners. It is a symbol of heritage, rebellionism and southern pride to some. To others, it's a reminder of southern slavery.

I think that with the case of the large Confederate flag, there may have been a mutally beneficial way to display southern pride and heritage and rebellionism without hurting those still effected by the aftermath of southern racism and slavery.

To make a large flag and display it publicly is not to respect the people that are still hurt by what that symbol means to them, just as the Nazis using the religious, lucky symbol of the swastika hurt that symbol's meaning forever. If people want others to respect the heritage, tradition and good things that the Confederate flag stand for, they need to show respect to people that feel differently.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm relatively sure that there's no place in the United States where the display of a Confederate Flag is banned.

You're just a toolbox if you do so. Being a toolbox isn't illegal.

[badger]

I'm relatively sure that there's no place in the United States where the display of a Confederate Flag is banned.

You're just a toolbox if you do so. Being a toolbox isn't illegal.

I just want to be clear - I'm not comparing the Confederacy to Nazi Germany. I am comparing the symbols of the Confederate flag to the swastika.

This is not illegal, I agree, but just seems like outrageous arrogance in what could have been a great tribute to southern history. Rebelling against the Union was something that was very bold and daring and something that the United States founders encouraged if future governments were found to be corrupt or not upholding rights.

I was once very, very upset at a high school English teacher. She was making general statements about other groups of people that were not only ignorant, but false. It was my ultimate revenge (in my 10th grade mind) to write my research paper on the swastika. Her references to my choice of topic as a "Paper on Adolf Hitler" and "Nazi Germany" only encouraged my rebellion further. My mom encouraged my rebellion - she found a 1910s postcard wishing "Luck and adoration." It had a swastika in the middle, and no, it wasn't from Germany.

If I learned anything from my research, it was that symbolism can quickly change through actions of future generations. This action of placing an oversized Confederate flag will not change anyone's minds and if anything, will intensify opinions that such display is ignorant, backwards, redneck, racist, etc. It is disappointing that these groups trying to honor their southern heritage couldn't have found a more effective way to display their pride.

[JohnnyMack]

Da flag is up.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-30889

[NormanPride]

We need to ship some OSU and Texas flags to Iran and North Korea for them to use. :)

[TexasLidig8r]

Wanna bet that "that lipstick on a pretty lady" becomes a campaign issue before long?

Let the devisiveness continue!!!!!

[Frozen Sooner]

OK. Your post above stated that it was now banned.

People tend to conflate display of the Confederate flag with people "desecrating" the US flag and act like it's hypocritical to defend someone's right to do one while not the other, which is a straw man argument for the most part.

I would certainly fight for someone's right to display a Confederate flag, just as I would fight for someone's right to desecrate a US flag. I'll also fight for anyone's right to call both people idiots.

[Okla-homey]

I happen to know its presence is legislatively "banned" from atop the domes of both the Alabama and SC state capitols where it had flown since the 1960's.

On a pertinent aside, both states began such displays as a thinly vieled attempt to put the federal gubmint on notice they would not quietly accede to integration. Mind you, neither state flew the flag atop their respective domes at anytime following the "woah" and only started doing so when faced with the horrid specter of actually being required by Washington to let black and white children go to the same public schools.

It's true. You can look it up.

And that, my brothers and sisters, is one of the many reasons black folks have so much angst toward that symbol. Therefore, I maintain the same billy-bobs who lament its political incorrectness are responsible in large part for said political incorrectness. That, and the KKK's prominent use of it.

Thus endeth the lesson.

[Frozen Sooner]

Homey, the display of said flag by private citizens is not barred. Thank you for the correction, though.

[badger]

Ok, Rich, since you're pressing the issue, I only said "banned" because I remembered seeing the tributes to the Mannings at the Heisman Trophy presentation - you know, the year Jason White won it :D

Anyway, there is a noticeable difference between the Archie Manning videos and the Eli Manning videos. The difference is the Confederate flag.
Link (http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/Articles%202000/UMississippiConfedflag.htm)
Ole Miss banned the flag in 1997. When Archie wowed Rebel crowds, he did it to a sea of Confederate flags. When his son Eli wowed the same school's crowds, there were no flags. Like Homey mentioned, it is also no longer on top of a few state capitols.

[Okla-homey]

Homey, the display of said flag by private citizens is not barred. Thank you for the correction, though.

not by law. That said, try running one of those babies up in certain neighborhoods across the Fruited Plain and see what happens.;)

They are also "banned" for display on certain federal property by general order. Specifically in barracks rooms on military installations.

just saying.

[Frozen Sooner]

True. Then again, I don't see a whole lot of legislators clamoring to defecate on US flags, nor do I see a lot of soldiers doing so. ;)

[olevetonahill]

Im gonna appoligise to sicem fer getin Upset wit him. I misread his Post.
My bad Sic

[badger]

Im gonna appoligise to sicem fer getin Upset wit him. I misread his Post.
My bad Sic

aww :O

so glad we all get along here at South Oval.

As I was saying, my opinion is all about symbolism, not about whether or not is actually banned or just highly frowned upon, not about how terribly racist, redneck, bigoted or otherwise anyone is - it was just about respecting other's opinions and how symbolism should be respected.

With that in mind, perhaps a better alternative would have been a big one of these:
http://www.archives.alabama.gov/images/natflag1.gif
Right now, we can agree that mainstream opinions of the Confederate battle flag are negative, because it is seen as a reminder of racial inequality, slavery, etc. However, that same opinion is not out there for the Conferate national flag.

Thus, they can honor their Confederate roots, traditions, heritage and those that sacrificed their lives for their native land without offending those that view the symbol of the Confederate battle flag as a reminder of past racial problems.

Of course, such a flag would probably not get national headlines and all the attention of this flag :rolleyes:

[TexasLidig8r]

Wasn't the War Against Northern Aggression ACTUALLY about states rights versus federal rights?????

http://www.cas.sc.edu/mcks/Exhibitions/images/2stir.jpg

:D

[olevetonahill]

What I allus thot Lid ?
The Issue of Slavery was part of the Catylist.
From My meager Knowledge slavery was about to Die out anyway , Not sure tho, Just stuff I was Taught Back in the 60s in skool .

[Harry Beanbag]

Rebelling against the Union was something that was very bold and daring and something that the United States founders encouraged if future governments were found to be corrupt or not upholding rights.


Yep. I think our Founding Fathers would be sorely disappointed that we aren't rebelling right now.

[Okla-homey]

Yep. I think our Founding Fathers would be sorely disappointed that we aren't rebelling right now.

I wouldn't go quite that far. True, populists like Thomas "Hook-up w/My Slave Wench but not Free Her or the Children She Bore Me in My Will" Jefferson would be all in.

That said, your Federalists like Alex Hamilton, Jack Adams and Jim Madison? Not so much. See, to those cats, joining the Union was kinda like a big legal flapper valve. One way in, no exit. Or the "Hotel California." You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

And that, my friends, was the official United States position in 1860 as it remains today.

Too bad a lotta good boys had to die horrible deaths (on both sides) to clinch it. I regret we nearly lost a generation in that war. If memory serves, almost 700,000 KIA's or Died of Disease out of 3.2 million engaged.

[Harry Beanbag]

I wouldn't go quite that far. True, populists like Thomas "Hook-up w/My Slave Wench but not Free Her or the Children She Bore Me in My Will" Jefferson would be all in.

That said, your Federalists like Alex Hamilton, Jack Adams and Jim Madison? Not so much. See, to those cats, joining the Union was kinda like a big legal flapper valve. One way in, no exit. Or the "Hotel California." You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

And that, my friends, was the official United States position in 1860 as it remains today.

Too bad a lotta good boys had to die horrible deaths (on both sides) to clinch it.


Oh I understand all that and the Civil War had to be won like it was. Believe me, I'm not a southern apologist, I just posted those giant flag pictures on the first page because I thought they were funny. :)

I'm just saying that I think the goverment has transformed itself over the last two centuries into something that most of those guys wouldn't appreciate all that much.

[soonerscuba]

Sorry to go off tangent, but why do some see the founding fathers as infallible oracles as opposed to men, with flaws, with an 18th century view of the world? I mean, we did tweak their system and evolved into the most powerful nation the world has ever known, but that didn't really happen until we gutted their idea of government. Also, the South's *** is whipped to this day.

[Okla-homey]

Oh I understand all that and the Civil War had to be won like it was. Believe me, I'm not a southern apologist, I just posted those giant flag pictures on the first page because I thought they were funny. :)

I'm just saying that I think the goverment has transformed itself over the last two centuries into something that most of those guys wouldn't appreciate all that much.

I agree, but consider, the world has changed a lot too. Time was, we had an essentially agrarian population full of "yeoman farmers" (a/k/a rednecks). Those guys wanted to be left alone to tend to their crops and livestock. Kinda like OlVet.;) Those guys wanted neither wanted nor needed any gubmint regulation in their lives.

Fast forward to modern times. Now, I don't like gubmint regulation generally, but I acknowledge some is necessary to guard against excess and abuse and to protect the innocent and weak from those who would abuse them. Our society is far too complex to function without some rulz. I guess that's why I consider myself a Moderate.

For example: Imagine what life would be like if we didn't have the SEC, DOT, and the DOD? You would be afraid to invest, the roads would suck worse than they do and if we were attacked, we'd just have to huddle-up, snap the ball, send everyone downfield and pray.

That's what guys like Sic'em don't get. Government is too big, but you gotta accept the fact we need it to do some stuff. Unfortunately, it is my belief that government, like all living things, must either grow, or die. That's the sucky part.

Where we must stand firm is against the creation of new entitlements. Sure, it would be great if everyone had free healthcare in a perfect world. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world like that. There is no "free" anything. And I don't want my government to expand and stretch itself to provide such an entitlement. Sure as heck, if it does, your tax liability will expand correspondingly...and that health plan will be "one size fits all". And "one size fits all" is another myth.

no

such

thing.

[Harry Beanbag]

I agree, but consider, the world has changed a lot too. Time was, we had an essentially agrarian population full of "yeoman farmers" (a/k/a rednecks). Those guys wanted to be left alone to tend to their crops and livestock. Kinda like OlVet.;) Those guys wanted neither wanted nor needed any gubmint regulation in their lives.

Fast forward to modern times. Now, I don't like gubmint regulation generally, but I acknowledge some is necessary to guard against excess and abuse and to protect the innocent and weak from those who would abuse them. Our society is far too complex to function without some rulz. I guess that's why I consider myself a Moderate.

For example: Imagine what life would be like if we didn't have the SEC, DOT, and the DOD? You would be afraid to invest, the roads would suck worse than they do and if we were attacked, we'd just have to huddle-up, snap the ball, send everyone downfield and pray.

That's what guys like Sic'em don't get. Government is too big, but you gotta accept the fact we need it to do some stuff. Unfortunately, it is my belief that government, like all living things, must either grow, or die. That's the sucky part.

Where we must stand firm is against the creation of new entitlements. Sure, it would be great if everyone had free healthcare in a perfect world. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world like that. There is no "free" anything. And I don't want my government to expand and stretch itself to provide such an entitlement. Sure as heck, if it does, your tax liability will expand correspondingly...and that health plan will be "one size fits all". And "one size fits all" is another myth.

no

such

thing.


Yeah, maybe I should have been more specific. Your last paragraph is what I'm mostly talking about. Entitlements, government corruption, and the overtaxation of the people to compensate for those things would most likely be at the top the Father's list of things to avoid.

[Okla-homey]

Homey, the display of said flag by private citizens is not barred. Thank you for the correction, though.

Another contemporaneous example of private citizens' being barred from displaying said banner. In Minnesota.

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=513203


Flag flap: confederate flag controversy keeps students from attending commencement

They say they're just "good ol' boys" who, like the song goes, were "never meaning no harm." But three Bloomington Kennedy seniors were not allowed to attend their commencement Wednesday night after bringing a Confederate flag to school on Tuesday.

"We're all big fans of the Dukes of Hazard," said Dan Fredin, who was suspended, along with Joe Snyder and Justin Thompson. "It's just us showing we have our own style and we aren't going to conform to whatever anyone else thinks."

School officials say at least one of the students waved and carried the flag in the parking lot.

The boys argue they never took the flags off their trucks, but they admit they brought them to the school.

Officials asked the students to remove the flags. Eventually, all three students were suspended for three days -- which, in this case, included graduation.

Officials say a Student Code of Conduct prohibits behavior that may provoke or offend other students.

"We are very clear that the Confederate flag is a symbol of hatred, bigotry and racism," said Rick Kaufman, the Executive Director of Community Relations at Bloomington Kennedy High School.

"It's truly unfortunate that the bad decision they made will prevent them from walking across the stage in graduation," Kaufman said adding that the school has dealt with students bringing confederate flags to school before.

But the students argue the punishment doesn't fit the crime. They say they show the flag as a sign of rebellion, not racism.

"The confederate army was in rebellion to the U.S. Army who were about money and power," Fredin said. "We never took it as racial or anything like that."

Meantime, the American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota said the students would likely not have a case in court.

"If the authorities can make the claim that the presence of the flag can reasonably disrupt the educational process than they can censor it," said Charles Samuelson with the ACLU of Minnesota.

The three students will still receive their diplomas. Already they have plans for next year, which for two of them, includes serving in the U.S. military.

[Frozen Sooner]

And you'll notice that's not a ban on that Confederate Flag, but on any behavior disruptive to the educational process.

The students also were not faced with legal penalties.

[badger]

And you'll notice that's not a ban on that Confederate Flag, but on any behavior disruptive to the educational process.

The students also were not faced with legal penalties.

:rolleyes:gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Frozen Sooner]

Well for ****'s sake, badger, the main problem I had was that Dean was trying to compare display of the Confederate flag with gay pride marches and flag-burning and claiming that "pinkos" were hypocrites for defending one and not the other.

The obvious context here is that while many "pinkos" have supported people's right to have gay pride marches and burn flags in the public square, they have not (to my knowledge) attempted to ban display of the confederate flag in the public square. No, the capitol dome is not the public square, nor is the schoolyard.

Fine, though. I concede the point. You are not permitted by some organizations to display a confederate flag on their property, or you may suffer sanctions from that organization. Some of those organizations are funded by the government, so this could be construed by someone to mean that there is a government ban on displaying a confederate flag.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The problem is really no simpler than this - rednecks fly the confederate flag. They embarrass the rest of us white people, but...what are you going to do? Some people like cheering long and loud for losers. The goofiest even dress up like the losers.

It's the same thing with all of the ding-a-lings who run around in Chicago Cubs hats and whatnot. Everyone knows the Cubs suck it and will eventually lose. But, that doesn't keep dimwits from supporting them.

That's right. In one post I've told off Confederate flags flyers and Chicago Cubs fans. Suck it, losers.

[mdklatt]

That's right. In one post I've told off Confederate flags flyers and Chicago Cubs fans. Suck it, losers.

You should have gone for the trifecta.

:stunned: [hairGel]

[Tear Down This Wall]

Catholics?

[Tear Down This Wall]

:D

[TexasLidig8r]

Catholics?

According to Heddy.. (That's HEDLEY!).. Lamarr.. that would be the Methodists.

[Fraggle145]

You should have gone for the trifecta.

:stunned: [hairGel]

agreed, it was the first group i thought of...

[badger]

Rich, I was gahhhhhhhh-ing because of your obsession with the word "banned," lolz. I just wanted to move on but you seemed to be clinging to that word.

Losers of note that some people for some reason cheer for...
1- Oklahoma State University football. Your last national championship was in... never... years... ago.
2- Los Angeles Clippers. This is like off-the-scale bad throughout their history. They've had very, very few moments of triumph, but usually, they screw up their annual lottery selection.
3- Chicago Cubs. Steve Bartman ensures another 100 years of medicrity.

I think there is a pattern - each of these teams has a far superior team next door. OSU fooseball has OU football, the Clips have the Lakers and the Cubs have the White Sox.

The south is still suffering the lingering effects of the Civil War. Think of all the top universities that are in the north. Think of all the national artifacts of pride in the north - the Statue of Liberty, the nation's capital, Mount Rushmore. Think of all the national parks in the north. There is still a divide between the north and the south. If the same resources were poured into the south as they have been in the north, perhaps Atlanta wouldn't need to pray for rain, Hurricane Katrina would have had a faster response set up and our roads wouldn't be in dire condition as far as traffic management and repairs.

... of course, everyone's moving south now from the north, so perhaps this is the "south rising again" and all :D

[Fraggle145]

but they have Stone Mountain!

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/2933231-Stone_Mountain-Stone_Mountain.jpg

[Frozen Sooner]

Rich, I was gahhhhhhhh-ing because of your obsession with the word "banned," lolz. I just wanted to move on but you seemed to be clinging to that word.

Losers of note that some people for some reason cheer for...
1- Oklahoma State University football. Your last national championship was in... never... years... ago.
2- Los Angeles Clippers. This is like off-the-scale bad throughout their history. They've had very, very few moments of triumph, but usually, they screw up their annual lottery selection.
3- Chicago Cubs. Steve Bartman ensures another 100 years of medicrity.

I think there is a pattern - each of these teams has a far superior team next door. OSU fooseball has OU football, the Clips have the Lakers and the Cubs have the White Sox.

The south is still suffering the lingering effects of the Civil War. Think of all the top universities that are in the north. Think of all the national artifacts of pride in the north - the Statue of Liberty, the nation's capital, Mount Rushmore. Think of all the national parks in the north. There is still a divide between the north and the south. If the same resources were poured into the south as they have been in the north, perhaps Atlanta wouldn't need to pray for rain, Hurricane Katrina would have had a faster response set up and our roads wouldn't be in dire condition as far as traffic management and repairs.

... of course, everyone's moving south now from the north, so perhaps this is the "south rising again" and all :D

Well, I only own one gun and I don't have a religion, so you have to give me something to cling to.

[Blue]

What a bunch of arrogant condescending posts. From Oklahomans no less. Ha!

[JohnnyMack]

The south is still suffering the lingering effects of the Civil War. Think of all the top universities that are in the north. Think of all the national artifacts of pride in the north - the Statue of Liberty, the nation's capital, Mount Rushmore. Think of all the national parks in the north. There is still a divide between the north and the south. If the same resources were poured into the south as they have been in the north, perhaps Atlanta wouldn't need to pray for rain, Hurricane Katrina would have had a faster response set up and our roads wouldn't be in dire condition as far as traffic management and repairs.

... of course, everyone's moving south now from the north, so perhaps this is the "south rising again" and all :D

Why do you hate the Mayflower?

[Okla-homey]

Why do you hate the Mayflower?

That's perhaps a bit more prescient than you intended.

Look at it this way. The soil of Yankeedom is rocky and you can't grow terbacky and cotton up there. Hence, no slaves. Instead, those Pilgrim d00ds decided to make stuff to sell to their fellow colonists. Making stuff takes individual effort and technical skillz.

The soil down South was rich and the growing season was long. People started shipping in to Virginia and points south not for religious freedeom, but to get rich. Hence, they needed slaves to work those two very labor intensive crops.

They didn't make stuff because they could make plenty of cash selling terbacky and cotton. Sitting on your veranda watching the "darkies" hoe terbacky and chop cotton doesn't require any techie skillz. Indeed, formal education was considered beneath them. That was for those pale and sickly shopkeepers up North. Real men hunted, gambled, drank bourbon whiskey and waltzed with purty belles.

Frankly, that's also why the South handed the North its arse for the first 2 years of the "Woah." Those rugged outdoorsmen kicked Yankee tail. Eventually however, the industrial might and the sheer numbers in the Yankee Nation turned the tide.

That, and a couple of previously minor and unknown westerners who were'nt even in the Army anymore when the ball started. Those two decided the best way to win was to knock off the cutesy stuff and slug-it out. Sam Grant from Illinois and Bill Sherman from Ohio. Abe Lincoln, a fellow westerner from Illinois trusted their judgment and the rest is history.

Even today, there exists remnants of that legacy. It is a part of the American experience and helps explain why things are the way they are today.

[StormySooner-IN]

WTF!?

I pulled a muscle in my **** finger...because I had to scroll so far to the right to see everything.....:mad:








:D

[olevetonahill]

WTF!?

I pulled a muscle in my **** finger...because I had to scroll so far to the right to see everything.....:mad:








:D

You Pulled Yer WHAT ???????????