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View Full Version : NBA finals, who wins ???



Soonerus
5/30/2008, 10:57 PM
I think Celtics...

SoonerBOI
5/30/2008, 11:15 PM
I think LA...:D

tulsaoilerfan
5/31/2008, 11:46 AM
I HOPE Boston, but i bet David Stern is happy in his pants right now :)

Scott D
5/31/2008, 12:06 PM
Where's the Whinny Crybabby David Stern option?

Eielson
5/31/2008, 01:43 PM
I, along with all 6 of the ESPN Experts, pick LA.

It really shocked me that all 6 of them picked LA.

Big Red Ron
6/2/2008, 12:48 AM
Kobe hasn't won crap without Shak. I don't see that changing. Both teams have the big three but I think the ticket will be a man possesed.

Eielson
6/2/2008, 01:07 AM
Kobe hasn't won crap without Shak.

Other than a Western Conference Championship?

r5TPsooner
6/2/2008, 08:24 AM
I dislike rapists, so I'm rooting for the Celtics.

NormanPride
6/2/2008, 10:20 AM
Where's the "No matter who wins, we all lose" option? Rus fails at poles. ;)

soonermix
6/2/2008, 01:18 PM
rooting for boston
thinking l.a.

Fraggle145
6/2/2008, 02:40 PM
Other. who cares?

NBA sucks.

starclassic tama
6/2/2008, 03:01 PM
so you clicked on the thread just to reply that the NBA sucks? you are a winner

Fraggle145
6/2/2008, 05:23 PM
so you clicked on the thread just to reply that the NBA sucks? you are a winner


http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif
yep. I am a winner.

JLEW1818
6/3/2008, 06:42 PM
Lakers win. How many players on the Celtics have won a NBA title?

Curly Bill
6/3/2008, 07:15 PM
Lakers win...

...primarily because of a huge advantage at the PG position.

r5TPsooner
6/3/2008, 11:48 PM
GO Celtics. I hope that the Big Ticket gets his ring this season.

Scott D
6/4/2008, 07:00 AM
An earthquake with the Staples Center at the epicenter during Game 3 gets my vote.

tommieharris91
6/5/2008, 10:56 PM
Wow, I didn't know someone could come back from a sprained knee faster than Blake Griffin.

Big Red Ron
6/5/2008, 11:03 PM
Lakers win. How many players on the Celtics have won a NBA title?
How many on the Lakers won one without Shaq?

JLEW1818
6/9/2008, 08:21 PM
Big Red Ron you might be right on this one.

Big Red Ron
6/9/2008, 09:03 PM
Other than a Western Conference Championship?
Meh, they beat an aging and banged up San Antonio who was pushed to the limits by the upstart Hornets. The west ain't so hot this year.

Eielson
6/9/2008, 09:42 PM
Meh, they beat an aging and banged up San Antonio who was pushed to the limits by the upstart Hornets. The west ain't so hot this year.

You're obviously not going to be able to back that up with anything.

There are 9 teams that would qualify as at least the 4 seed in the East. That means that only 3 teams from the East could make the playoffs with their records if they were in the West. That is kinda debatable if they were in the West, though. They had a 14-16 record against the West. Shouldn't the #3 team have a little better record against the other conference than that? The Spurs were 23-7 against the East as the West's #3 seed.

Just so you know, the West's 9th best team was 20-10 against the East. Shoot, the West's 11th best team was 17-13. Outside of Boston and Detroit, it could be debated that the West has the 11 best teams.

Big Red Ron
6/9/2008, 10:24 PM
It's my opinion that Boston, Cleveland and Detroit would all hand LA their asses in the finals. I don't care how many middle of the pack west teams beat middle of the pack east teams.

Eielson
6/10/2008, 12:39 AM
It's my opinion that Boston, Cleveland and Detroit would all hand LA their asses in the finals. I don't care how many middle of the pack west teams beat middle of the pack east teams.

Cleveland would hand LA their asses? Do you know what basketball is?

Civicus_Sooner
6/10/2008, 09:56 AM
Cleveland would hand LA their asses? Do you know what basketball is?

Psst, BRR coaches basketball for his kid's teams and has a few nets hanging in his office.

Not saying I agree but I do agree that the Lakers had the easier rout to the finals than Boston did.

Scott D
6/10/2008, 11:05 AM
You're obviously not going to be able to back that up with anything.

There are 9 teams that would qualify as at least the 4 seed in the East. That means that only 3 teams from the East could make the playoffs with their records if they were in the West. That is kinda debatable if they were in the West, though. They had a 14-16 record against the West. Shouldn't the #3 team have a little better record against the other conference than that? The Spurs were 23-7 against the East as the West's #3 seed.

Just so you know, the West's 9th best team was 20-10 against the East. Shoot, the West's 11th best team was 17-13. Outside of Boston and Detroit, it could be debated that the West has the 11 best teams.

So west teams are better because they play fewer competitive games and most of them don't believe in playing any sort of defense?

Eielson
6/10/2008, 01:25 PM
So west teams are better because they play fewer competitive games and most of them don't believe in playing any sort of defense?

Did you not read my post? The East's third seeded team can't even manage a winning record against the West. I'm saying that the West is better because the West kicks the crap out of the East when they play head to head. I don't understand how you can see the head to head records and say that the West is not a ton better.

Eielson
6/10/2008, 01:42 PM
Not saying I agree but I do agree that the Lakers had the easier rout to the finals than Boston did.

How? I mean, the Pistons might be better than the Spurs but that is the only argument you can make. Even that argument might not be a great one.

Scott D
6/10/2008, 02:30 PM
Did you not read my post? The East's third seeded team can't even manage a winning record against the West. I'm saying that the West is better because the West kicks the crap out of the East when they play head to head. I don't understand how you can see the head to head records and say that the West is not a ton better.

I'm saying interconference records don't mean nearly as much. If the West is so dominant against the East, which is what you are saying. Then why does the West suck so badly against the West?

Head to head only counts for 20-25% of the overall records.

Eielson
6/10/2008, 10:04 PM
I'm saying interconference records don't mean nearly as much. If the West is so dominant against the East, which is what you are saying. Then why does the West suck so badly against the West?

Head to head only counts for 20-25% of the overall records.

3 out of 16 in the East have winning records against the West.

10 out of 16 in the West have winning records against the East.

End of discussion.

Big Red Ron
6/10/2008, 10:16 PM
3 out of 16 in the East have winning records against the West.

10 out of 16 in the West have winning records against the East.

End of discussion.
Not really, who played who is also important.

The question is, if the west is so good, why does it appear that the Lakers might not win one game in this series?

Big Red Ron
6/10/2008, 10:55 PM
Lakers squeak one out. Still the Celts win in 6.

Scott D
6/10/2008, 11:00 PM
3 out of 16 in the East have winning records against the West.

10 out of 16 in the West have winning records against the East.

End of discussion.

those stats are still meaningless.

Eielson
6/10/2008, 11:21 PM
Not really, who played who is also important.

Every team played played 30 games against the other conference. I'm going to guess that everybody played everybody.


The question is, if the west is so good, why does it appear that the Lakers might not win one game in this series?

Because you haven't paid any attention to the playoffs this year?

Big Red Ron
6/10/2008, 11:33 PM
Every team played played 30 games against the other conference. I'm going to guess that everybody played everybody.



Because you haven't paid any attention to the playoffs this year?Or maybe when the Celts were making the lakers look silly when I posted that, in LA but I did point out that la squeaked out a win. Yawn, reading is good. g'night genius.

Eielson
6/10/2008, 11:37 PM
those stats are still meaningless.

How? We're arguing about what conference is better. I show you that the East lost most of their games against the West and you act like it means nothing? This is ridiculous to even have to discuss this.

Eielson
6/10/2008, 11:45 PM
Or maybe when the Celts were making the lakers look silly when I posted that, in LA but I did point out that la squeaked out a win. Yawn, reading is good. g'night genius.

I saw that you said they "squeaked" out a win. I guess the Celtics just "squeaked" out those first two games.

I don't even think Celtics fans were crazy enough to think that LA couldn't win one game consider how good LA has been at home and how bad the Celtics have been on the road. You know too much for that game results nonsense, though.

Curly Bill
6/10/2008, 11:48 PM
How? We're arguing about what conference is better. I show you that the East lost most of their games against the West and you act like it means nothing? This is ridiculous to even have to discuss this.

Exactly. Obviously the West is, and has been, the best conference, to argue otherwise is to argue just for the sake of arguing.

...and that still holds even if the Celts do go on and beat the Lakers.

Eielson
6/11/2008, 12:20 AM
...and that still holds even if the Celts do go on and beat the Lakers.

Yeah, I've never argued that the East doesn't have the best team. It has been a little questionable since the Lakers have added to Gasol but I never have argued either way.

Having the best team doesn't make the conference the best conference. If Memphis had not completely blown it in the NCAA Championship game they would have won the championship as a C-USA team. The C-USA would still not be considered the best conference in College Basketball.

Curly Bill
6/11/2008, 12:59 AM
It's my opinion that Boston, Cleveland and Detroit would all hand LA their asses in the finals. I don't care how many middle of the pack west teams beat middle of the pack east teams.

Boston can obviously play with, and may end up beating L.A., Detroit might play with them as well, but Cleveland? There's no way Cleveland beats L.A., nor would they beat San Antonio, or Phoenix, or Utah, or New Orleans, or maybe even Dallas, not if we're talking about a 7-game series.

Scott D
6/11/2008, 09:23 AM
How? We're arguing about what conference is better. I show you that the East lost most of their games against the West and you act like it means nothing? This is ridiculous to even have to discuss this.

You're right, discussing any league that is divided into "East/West" is pointless. Records against the opposing conferences are still pointless. It's the same in hockey as well, the Western teams get 'fat' off of Eastern teams making extended road trips and changing time zones which is off of their normal routine, unlike teams in the West.

tommieharris91
6/12/2008, 10:33 PM
Those of you who like the NBA and ain't watchin now are missing a heck of a game. Celtics have the lead with 3 minutes left after trailing by 24 at one point.

soonerhubs
6/12/2008, 10:44 PM
I'm thoroughly enjoying this game. It'll be even better if the Lakers lose.

Scott D
6/12/2008, 10:45 PM
I'm enjoying watching David Stern twist in the wind about Refgate.

soonerhubs
6/12/2008, 10:50 PM
Looks like the "Zen-Master" was wrong when he said they'd be alright. Calling Phil a basketball genius is like giving the caddy credit for all of Tiger Woods' victories.

IB Jackson whines about officiating as he sulks off the court. :D

Eielson
6/12/2008, 10:55 PM
Looks like the "Zen-Master" was wrong when he said they'd be alright. Calling Phil a basketball genius is like giving the caddy credit for all of Tiger Woods' victories.

You are nuts if you think that Phil Jackson isn't a great coach.

Big Red Ron
6/12/2008, 10:57 PM
You are nuts if you think that Phil Jackson isn't a great coach.
Like you were nut by saying the West is better than the East. Boston in 5?

soonerhubs
6/12/2008, 11:01 PM
You are nuts if you think that Phil Jackson isn't a great coach.

That's fine, but you realize I'm crazy for many other reasons beyond stating Phil Jackson's obvious mental mediocrity and ridiculous good fortune.

Curly Bill
6/12/2008, 11:16 PM
I'm enjoying watching David Stern twist in the wind about Refgate.

Ditto.

Scott D
6/12/2008, 11:17 PM
You are nuts if you think that Phil Jackson isn't a great coach.

let me see Phil lead the Grizzlies to the playoffs and I might think he's a good coach, and not just a fortunate one.

Curly Bill
6/12/2008, 11:25 PM
let me see Phil lead the Grizzlies to the playoffs and I might think he's a good coach, and not just a fortunate one.

Ditto here too.

tulsaoilerfan
6/12/2008, 11:35 PM
You are nuts if you think that Phil Jackson isn't a great coach.


Phil's getting out-coached by Doc Freakin Rivers in this series. :D

Scott D
6/12/2008, 11:39 PM
Phil's getting out-coached by Doc Freakin Rivers in this series. :D

yeah, a Doc Freakin Rivers who had one of the worst records last year :D

tommieharris91
6/13/2008, 12:11 AM
Like you were nut by saying the West is better than the East. Boston in 5?

I think the West is better than the East this season. Eielson beat you with the stats earlier. Boston winning this series does nothing to change that perception.

Eielson
6/13/2008, 12:22 AM
let me see Phil lead the Grizzlies to the playoffs and I might think he's a good coach, and not just a fortunate one.

By those standards there has never been a good coach. Nobody can win with the Grizzlies. Name a great coach who won a lot of games and didn't have a good team.

Eielson
6/13/2008, 12:25 AM
Like you were nut by saying the West is better than the East. Boston in 5?

6...and even if the Celtics win the series it won't make a difference. Like I said earlier, the C-USA was not the best basketball conference in the nation. Shoot, the Celtics haven't even shown that they are even that much better than the Lakers. Sure, they're winning 3-1 but the Celtics haven't won by much in any of those. They were extremely lucky to win this game.

Eielson
6/13/2008, 12:26 AM
Phil's getting out-coached by Doc Freakin Rivers in this series. :D

No, Doc isn't a good coach. He really sucks he just has an extremely good team...

soonerhubs
6/13/2008, 07:35 AM
Name a great coach who won a lot of games and didn't have a good team.

Rick Pitino, Norman Dale, and Coach Carter to start off with.

JohnnyMack
6/13/2008, 09:10 AM
No, the Zen Master isn't a good coach. He really sucks he just has an extremely good team...

Fixed.

Scott D
6/13/2008, 10:24 AM
By those standards there has never been a good coach. Nobody can win with the Grizzlies. Name a great coach who won a lot of games and didn't have a good team.

if Phil is so brilliant how come he got beat by Mike D'antonio two straight years? He was fortunate to coach in Chicago when Jordan was in his prime, wins 6 rings because of Jordan, during Jordan's retirement can't even beat the Knicks who were above average during that stretch, gets Jordan back, wins some more. "Retires"...comes back to a team that has Kobe and Shaq, and wins 3 more rings by massaging egos. The egos blow up when Phil loses his first final, Shaq is gone, and the Lakers wallow in mediocrity until the lightbulb comes on for Kobe and he realizes he can't win alone, and voila they make the finals.

Scott D
6/13/2008, 10:27 AM
I think the West is better than the East this season. Eielson beat you with the stats earlier. Boston winning this series does nothing to change that perception.

The perception is flawed, and will remain flawed. Travel is the great unequalizer, and will remain so. As I said before, it's the linchpin of the entire argument of why regular season records are pointless in leagues divided into East/West. MLB and the NFL have a better balance of records versus the opposing league/conference than either the NHL or NBA because of that.

Eielson
6/13/2008, 11:22 AM
if Phil is so brilliant how come he got beat by Mike D'antonio two straight years? He was fortunate to coach in Chicago when Jordan was in his prime, wins 6 rings because of Jordan, during Jordan's retirement can't even beat the Knicks who were above average during that stretch, gets Jordan back, wins some more. "Retires"...comes back to a team that has Kobe and Shaq, and wins 3 more rings by massaging egos. The egos blow up when Phil loses his first final, Shaq is gone, and the Lakers wallow in mediocrity until the lightbulb comes on for Kobe and he realizes he can't win alone, and voila they make the finals.

I love how the light bulb just comes on for Kobe and that Jackson had nothing to do with anything. I would love to see your list of great coaches.

Scott D
6/13/2008, 11:27 AM
I love how the light bulb just comes on for Kobe and that Jackson had nothing to do with anything. I would love to see your list of great coaches.

To me a great coach has to be one that built something. What has Phil built? If Phil had so much to do with this 'rebirth' of the Lakers, why do they keep Mitch Kupchek on the payroll? Phil's knock will always be that he's cherrypicked his jobs and won't take on any sort of rebuilding project. Hell, even Pat Riley has done the rebuilding thing.

JohnnyMack
6/13/2008, 11:34 AM
I could have coached the Bulls to at least half of their titles. I would have sat there on the sidelines and worked a sudoku puzzle during the game.

Eielson
6/13/2008, 11:35 AM
The perception is flawed, and will remain flawed. Travel is the great unequalizer, and will remain so. As I said before, it's the linchpin of the entire argument of why regular season records are pointless in leagues divided into East/West. MLB and the NFL have a better balance of records versus the opposing league/conference than either the NHL or NBA because of that.

Both teams have to travel. It isn't like all the eastern teams just travel to play in the west. I've played in games that have started anywhere from 10 in the morning to 11 at night. I'm sure they are capable of playing with the hours off a little bit. If it were just a little difference in how they played I would say maybe you were right. This is more than just a little difference.

You want to look at the teams and not just look how they played? Well, in the East all you need is one good player to be one of the top teams. The Cavs just have Lebron, the Magic just have Howard, and thats the #3 and #4 teams in that conference. In the West you have the 8 seed with Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, and even probably the second best rebounder in the league. The 7 seed has Kidd, Howard, and Nowitzki. The 6 seed had Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion for part of the year...then Shaq. There is also a big gap in talent.

Eielson
6/13/2008, 11:37 AM
To me a great coach has to be one that built something. What has Phil built? If Phil had so much to do with this 'rebirth' of the Lakers, why do they keep Mitch Kupchek on the payroll? Phil's knock will always be that he's cherrypicked his jobs and won't take on any sort of rebuilding project. Hell, even Pat Riley has done the rebuilding thing.

No rebuilding? You don't consider taking a team that missed the playoffs to the finals a couple years later as rebuilding? If you are a bad coach they don't sign you to big contracts on good teams.

JohnnyMack
6/13/2008, 11:53 AM
No rebuilding? You don't consider taking a team that missed the playoffs to the finals a couple years later as rebuilding? If you are a bad coach they don't sign you to big contracts on good teams.

Why do you hate Jeff Van Gundy?

Eielson
6/13/2008, 12:01 PM
Rick Pitino, Norman Dale, and Coach Carter to start off with.

Norman Dale?! You seriously are bringing up a character from a movie? Yeah, they based Hoosiers on a real movie but they basically didn't get anything right in it and Norman Dale wasn't even his name. Even if it were, he is a small high school coach in 1954.

Coach Carter is another movie. Is this a joke? Anyway, he was also a high school coach and a lot of his players went on to play college basketball so he had plenty of talent.

Pitino was over 40 games under .500 with the Celtics.

Scott D
6/13/2008, 12:04 PM
I'm done with this thread. I'm not even trying to change your perception of east/west leagues.

Two things however. In an east/west league, the Western teams do a lot more travel...A LOT. Because of that you could say they are more used to it. However, where it can become a hindrance is in a Championship series. Eastern teams do a western swing perhaps 3 times a season and they manage to put in a decent sized trip when they do it. That's why a majority of them more than halfway through begin struggling. Then when western teams go east, they remain in the same time zone for nearly every game. That's advantageous to the team that travels a lot because they don't need to do any adjusting.

Talent level is a copout excuse that is constantly used by western teams that lose in the postseason to eastern teams in the finals. Other than the Lakers, Spurs, and Houston who in the west has been worth mentioning in the last 20 years? Nobody...because they can't win the title unless it's one of those three franchises. Certainly more teams from the west would have titles if they were that dominant.

Fine, Phil is a good coach, despite the fact that he nearly quit at the end of every season since they lost the title in 2004. He's not a coaching god, and he's above average at best. This conversation is ****ing stupid, and we should be talking about how David Stern is going to have a stroke or heart attack soon because his precious league is burning around him despite his dream matchup in the finals.

JohnnyMack
6/13/2008, 12:08 PM
and we should be talking about how David Stern is going to have a stroke or heart attack soon because his precious league is burning around him despite his dream matchup in the finals.

Yeah, I don't imagine he's too pleased about watching that meltdown last night. :D

Eielson
6/13/2008, 12:14 PM
7 out of the last 9 years the West has won. I don't care if it is the same two teams. Only 2 teams from the East have won a championship in the last 9 years and they only won one.

In the last 20 years, only three teams have won a championship in the East. Bulls, Pistons, and one from the Heat. Its even sometimes questioned if the Heat should have won the one they got.

ousoonerfan
6/13/2008, 01:43 PM
This thread makes my head hurt!!:D

Boston finishes in Game 6.

soonerhubs
6/13/2008, 02:22 PM
Norman Dale?! You seriously are bringing up a character from a movie? Yeah, they based Hoosiers on a real movie but they basically didn't get anything right in it and Norman Dale wasn't even his name. Even if it were, he is a small high school coach in 1954.

Coach Carter is another movie. Is this a joke? Anyway, he was also a high school coach and a lot of his players went on to play college basketball so he had plenty of talent.

Pitino was over 40 games under .500 with the Celtics.

I'm extremely amused that you even gave my post a response, and yes Phil is a cherry picker, not a builder. If that makes him a "Zen Master", then so be it.