Sooner Basketball recruiting class

[stoops the eternal pimp]

future Sooners as of right now

'08 and '09

SG 22 Steven Pledger- Four star shooting guard
(Atlantic Shores Christian School)
Virginia Beach, VA 6-4/190 05/27/2008


C 15 Kyle Hardrick-Four star who probably will end up at the 4 spot
(Eisenhower HS)
Lawton, OK 6-8.5/230/11.0 05/20/2006

PF JC Juan Patillo- 3 star now...
(Southern Idaho)
Twin Falls, ID 6-7/220/17.4 05/01/2008


SG 6 Willie Warren- 17 star shooting guard
(North Crowley HS)
Fort Worth, TX 6-4/190/24.7 11/16/2007


SF 14 Ray Willis- 4 star who will probably play the 3 spot
(Westlake HS)
Atlanta, GA 6-5.5/185/11.0 10/04/2007


C JC Orlando Allen
(Paris)
Paris, TX 6-10/285/1.8 09/26/2007

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Does anybody know why Scout has Patillo in the class of 08 and 09?

[Boomer.....]

Rhino beat you to it.

08 (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96236)
09 (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112187)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Yeah but I created another so Badger could give her take....and the Skully one also..

[badger]

Ok, fair enough. I hadn't seen those threads up here so we were getting new threads here everytime someone new declared, so I thought it would be easier to jump conglomerate every "Hooray, new Sooner!" announcement.

I know there's a recruiting forum, but its not like we reserve football recruits to just "recruiting" anymore :D

[the_ouskull]

My take on these guys...? I'm honored.

- Pledger: He sounds like a kid who's willing to work hard. He's supposed to be a pretty good shot, especially from range, but his handle is an area of opportunity. He's basically going to be a spot-up shooter for his first couple of years. If he improves his handle, he'll improve his penetration and his jump shooting. If he improves those, then, with his outside shooting, he'll be nice and nasty. However, if he gets content catching and shooting his first couple of years and doesn't continue to improve his game, then, conditioning, and even injuries could become a problem. So basically, if we don't see improvement by the end of his sophomore season, we should probably stop looking for it. That's low-end. High end is what I discussed earlier. A guy that takes advantage of our post game now to force defenses to sink in and give him open looks. Work on the defense, ball-handling, and penetration/pull-up in practice. Be a 2nd or 3rd team All-Conference guy by his senior year. That's pretty high-end though.

- Kyle Hardrick: I think it'll be feast or famine with this guy too. Our High-End expectations should be a (slightly) more athletic Kevin Bookout; only Hardrick uses more footwork and positioning where Bookout would use pure strength. Low-End, we're looking at Johnnie Gilbert with more range on his jumpshot. I know that, with him being a big in-state signing and all, these opinions aren't going to be incredibly well-received, but sorry. Maybe I'll be wrong.

- Patillo: Aren't you a little short to be a Stormtrooper? (sorry) I think that this guy is one of those "bad" tweeners. I think he's too short (and small) to consistantly play post, but I think he's too awkward, handle-wise, to play extended minutes on the perimeter... which is exactly where his JUCO played him... and he only played 22.1 minutes per game. Was that because the coach had other highly recruited players that he wanted to profile, or was it because their team blew everybody out? Maybe it was conditioning. I guess we'll know by next season. (And now if I find out that it's asthma or something like that I'm going to bang my head into my keyboard repeatedly until an apology comes out.) I'd like to see him become kind of a Tayshaun Prince "perimeter role-player" type player for us. Have him develop a (more) consistant stroke from about 19-20', and have him use his length to bother smaller wing players from opposing teams. He should also be able to post up a lot of guards in the Big 12... especially after a year or two in a "real" weight room. (No disrespect meant to the weightroom at Southern Idaho, which I'm sure rivals the University of Oklahoma's own...) If he's got strength, conditioning, or toughness issues, then we're going to see flashes of brilliance, and then glimpses of what could have been. (Think Brandon Foust.) So: High-End, Tayshaun Prince; Low-End, Brandon Foust.

- Willie Warren: Our most highly-discussed recruit. There isn't a lot about this guy that hasn't been discussed already. He's been seen tearing it up at the highest levels of competition he's faced so far. If his ball-handling has improved to the level of a D-I starter by the time September rolls around, you are going to hear a lot of buzz coming out of Norman. He's quick (although not as quick as his people would have you believe) and he's strong (and his people are dead on there, 'cause he is strong) and he's got a pretty-good, but not great, jump shot. Anybody else have a bad feeling about this guy? Like, he's either just not going to be able to adjust to the size and speed of the college game, or he's going to rely too heavily on his athleticism and never really improve his all-around game? High-End, we're looking at bowling ball of a penetrator who also has a nice outside shot, especially when he's got time to set his feet. It's hard for me to say, really... He's got a Jameer Nelson type game, only he's four inches taller than Nelson, and much more athletic... and he uses that athleticism really well. But he really just reminds me of Jameer Nelson. (and I promise that IS a compliment) But, it could just as easily go the other way, and him remind me of Khalid Al-Amin. (UConn. Look him up.) That's Low-End for WW, I think.

- Orlando Allen: Two words to summarize Orlando Allen. Buyers Remorse. I could average 2 ppg at PJC with a broken arm. He's got size, and that's about it. No muscle, no tone. No footwork. No overwhelming athleticism. Nothing of real note, and I doubt he'll ever play many, if any, minutes. I hope I'm wrong, as, if he can put a back-to-the-basket game together to where he could average 8 ppg, it'd be a nice grab. Hell, if he could average 8 rpg, he'd be a nice grab. He can't. High-End, Larry Turner; Low-End, (himself) Oleg, minus the GPA boost. (in fact, the opposite may happen in his case)

- Ray Willis: I really don't know a lot about this guy. He's long, athletic, and "gamey," especially on the defensive glass.. but he looks scared to dribble very often. I don't think he's got the size and strength to be a guy who is looked upon to consistantly get big boards, so he's going to have to work on his ballhandling and his range to help open up the post for the people who will be a bit closer to it than he is (used to) now that he's playing D-I ball.

- Kyle Cannon: I think he's another guy that could go either the Johnnie Gilbert or the Kevin Bookout route.

I'm hoping that more of these guys than not go the Bookout route, as some consistant low-post scoring and defense will improve us greatly next year, as well as open things up for all of these young shooters. If they can develop some confidence in their shot at his level early, then we'll be looking pretty good come conference season. If they develop some Austin Johnson in their jumpshots, then I'll be scared come conference season.

...and now we play the waiting game...

the_ouskull

[Big Red Ron]

I loved Bookout, don't get me wrong. But he never got better after 4 years, Maybe it was Sampson?

[John Kochtoston]

I loved Bookout, don't get me wrong. But he never got better after 4 years, Maybe it was Sampson?

Bookout also battled injuries throughout his time here and did a few years on the track team, as well. That might have played a bigger role.

[Frozen Sooner]

Or quite possibly he had a point guard that he didn't get along with.

[NormanPride]

Or quite possibly he had a point guard that nobody got along with.

Yeah, that too.

[Soonerwolf]

You forgot the other Kyle - 2008 Kyle Cannon:gary:


future Sooners as of right now

'08 and '09

SG 22 Steven Pledger- Four star shooting guard
(Atlantic Shores Christian School)
Virginia Beach, VA 6-4/190 05/27/2008


C 15 Kyle Hardrick-Four star who probably will end up at the 4 spot
(Eisenhower HS)
Lawton, OK 6-8.5/230/11.0 05/20/2006

PF JC Juan Patillo- 3 star now...
(Southern Idaho)
Twin Falls, ID 6-7/220/17.4 05/01/2008


SG 6 Willie Warren- 17 star shooting guard
(North Crowley HS)
Fort Worth, TX 6-4/190/24.7 11/16/2007


SF 14 Ray Willis- 4 star who will probably play the 3 spot
(Westlake HS)
Atlanta, GA 6-5.5/185/11.0 10/04/2007


C JC Orlando Allen
(Paris)
Paris, TX 6-10/285/1.8 09/26/2007

[Eielson]

I loved Bookout, don't get me wrong. But he never got better after 4 years, Maybe it was Sampson?

I think he looked better than he was as a Freshman because he had Price and some other good players. At least I think that was the year.

[crawfish]

It's obviously hard to please some people. :)

[Big Red Ron]

Bookout's career stats stayed virtually the same for 4 years. I'm not rippin the guy. It just seemed he never got coached up or something

[Vegas Sooner]

I've never understood the KS bashing. We aren't Duke, NC, or KU, but we made some nice runs in the tourney and won a lot of Big 12 tourneys in his years at OU. I thought the Final 4 Team with Price was one of the more complete and consistent teams I have seen in the Big 12 in a long time.

[the_ouskull]

The Kelvin Sampson bashing is primarily due to the fact that he's not Billy Tubbs. He played a something-you-can-always-rely-on style of defense, and ran a slow-it-down perimeter-motion offense with very few offensive big men to give it any consistency. (I would have LOVED to have seen Bobby Joe Evans get to play some non-injured minutes as a Sooner...)

Considering how he went out, I've slacked off a bit on defending him as a coach, overall... but I'll defend his basketball acumen and coaching ability until the Aggie girls come back to the place where they hang their bells.

On the Bookout stuff... Yes, he benefited greatly from playing with Quannas, Hollis, et al... Being a post player with no ball-handling skills, he relied on other players to get him the ball, or on offensive rebounds. He got BOTH as a freshman and looked great. Then, once those two unselfish leaders left, Bookout was left with Terrell Everett; the source of many bruised foreheads from my repeatedly banging it into walls after watching him dribble for 33 seconds and then either jack up a shot that only Austin Johnson would applaud, or fire a pass (gasp) to a wide-open member of the opposing team. Given his "mental makeup" and his skill set, he was probably best suited to play the 3, but we didn't have anybody who could play the point for those teams either. It sucked.

I would have liked to have seen Bookout play for a pass-first, drive-and-dish style point guard for a couple of years... Sigh.

the_ouskull

[Ash]

Yeah, I've got a bad feeling about Willie Warren, too. I mean he was recruited by schools like Kansas. He might be OK, but he's probably just a scrub.

Nobody wanted Patillo either. Man, why is Capel focusing only on these marginal D-1 projects?

Craptastic scouting report, skull.

[SoonerShark]

I've never understood the KS bashing. We aren't Duke, NC, or KU, but we made some nice runs in the tourney and won a lot of Big 12 tourneys in his years at OU. I thought the Final 4 Team with Price was one of the more complete and consistent teams I have seen in the Big 12 in a long time.

Quannas White being hurt (sprained ankle?) in 2002 prior to the Final Four and Hollis Price being hurt when refs allowed him to be pounded in the 2003 Big XII Tourney cost us our best chances for National Championships. In 2002, we were the best team in the nation.

[SoonerShark]

As to Kevin Bookout, he should have been redshirted the year that he was hurt early in the season but allowed to play beyond when he still could have redshirted.

[the_ouskull]

Yeah, I've got a bad feeling about Willie Warren, too. I mean he was recruited by schools like Kansas. He might be OK, but he's probably just a scrub.

Nobody wanted Patillo either. Man, why is Capel focusing only on these marginal D-1 projects?

Craptastic scouting report, skull.

I guess we'll know soon enough... Just remember that exact word, "craptastic," when I'm a lot closer to "right" than you are. Perhaps you'd like to offer your own opinions, seeing as you're quite the genius in regards to that orange, round ball and all...? I'd love to hear them. I suppose Patillo is going to put on weight, improve his ball-handling and range exponentially and become Scottie Pippin over the summer? Willie Warren is going to more closely resemble Dewayne Wade circa 2006 than he is Jameer Nelson 2007?

You DO realize that The Devil's Advocate is more than just a sushi roll at Gaijin, right? So, let's hear where you're coming from on these players... Should be a real treat.

the_ouskull

[Ash]

I guess we'll know soon enough... Just remember that exact word, "craptastic," when I'm a lot closer to "right" than you are. Perhaps you'd like to offer your own opinions, seeing as you're quite the genius in regards to that orange, round ball and all...? I'd love to hear them. I suppose Patillo is going to put on weight, improve his ball-handling and range exponentially and become Scottie Pippin over the summer? Willie Warren is going to more closely resemble Dewayne Wade circa 2006 than he is Jameer Nelson 2007?

You DO realize that The Devil's Advocate is more than just a sushi roll at Gaijin, right? So, let's hear where you're coming from on these players... Should be a real treat.

the_ouskull

I am quite the genius when it comes to b-ball. Not because I hold some special knowledge, it comes from not caring about innerweb ramblings and listening firsthand to the people that have scouted, coached and played with these guys.

[the_ouskull]

Well then, by all means, shower us... What are you hearing secondhand firsthand? Start at the top... I mean, I'm fairly ignorant to the game myself, only having played, scouted, and coached it at various points in my life; and, in fact, still doing all three. So, basically, any information I could obtain; any insight I could develop, from hearing the opinions of those brave enough to offer them up as sacrificial lambs online, I would be completely willing to take in with open arms.

Or, for those of you not privy to reading flowing, flowery, fake praise...

You're so smart...? Let's hear what you have to say about them. I already read what you had to say about me... If you want to question my knowledge because I don't think that we've got any sure-fire NBA first-rounders coming to Norman this next season, then I'm not sure that it's ME you should be questioning... the only one that's got that kind of potential right now is Warren, and he's going to have to develop a MUCH more consistent shot from range and learn how to patiently run an offense in order to get there. If his learning curve is a steep one, he could be two-and-done. If it's not, he could be a borderline first-rounder; or not get drafted at all.

See? That's the thing about predictions... You have to step off of the ledge to make them. So far your only prediction; in regards to your own genius, is garnering you an incomplete. It's cool though... I'll let you turn it in late.

the_ouskull

[Ash]

... the only one that's got that kind of potential right now is Warren, and he's going to have to develop a MUCH more consistent shot from range and learn how to patiently run an offense in order to get there.

the_ouskull

Blanket statements like these are awesome. You could say that about 98% of all 18 year olds that might one day want to play PG in the association. Or the other one about Patillo needing to put on weight. Because you want your 6'7" wing/forward to be built like mini-Shaq. His conditioning will probably need work, like most JUCOs, but he doesn't need to bench press a volkswagon to be effective at his position. How many games did you watch him play? He shoots 40 from outside, 50 from the floor, was the leading scorer on his team despite averaging 22 minutes, grabbed an average of 7 boards. He'll need to improve his skills, like all players at his stage, but I'm still wondering what about this guy gave you the impression he'll be a dud. Is it that he's a JUCO and some don't pan out? Again, excellent insight.

[badger]

I would be happy to confirm any and all rumors presented here. Feel free to run them by the soonerfans "fact checker" anytime. :D

All false rumors will be weeded out when presented in the court of public opinion... that is, if you're willing to take the chance that your sources were not in fact tell the truth. If you are confident in your information, I am sure that you would agree that it could stand against this forum of debate to stand as factually correct by the time it has been questioned every possible way possible.

[the_ouskull]

Blanket statements like these are awesome. You could say that about 98% of all 18 year olds that might one day want to play PG in the association. Or the other one about Patillo needing to put on weight. Because you want your 6'7" wing/forward to be built like mini-Shaq. His conditioning will probably need work, like most JUCOs, but he doesn't need to bench press a volkswagon to be effective at his position. How many games did you watch him play? He shoots 40 from outside, 50 from the floor, was the leading scorer on his team despite averaging 22 minutes, grabbed an average of 7 boards. He'll need to improve his skills, like all players at his stage, but I'm still wondering what about this guy gave you the impression he'll be a dud. Is it that he's a JUCO and some don't pan out? Again, excellent insight.

He's 6'7", shooting 50% from the floor against JUCO competition. I'm not saying that there's not some good JUCO ball being played in this country, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire. Also, you'll notice that I didn't say he was going to be a dud. I offered my insight on his potential; both high and low. You just happen to be a negative person (as am I, generally) and chose to focus on the low. If he turns into Tayshaun Prince, how, exactly, is that negative? Anyway... Those 7 boards a game that you're so proud of his grabbing are going to turn into maybe 3 or 4 a game in DI ball... So, what else does he bring? He's not a good passer, he's not a good ball-handler, and he's going to have trouble putting up the same shooting percentages against stronger, faster, and more accomplished competition. I don't think that any of this is unfair to say.... "blanket statement" or not.

Sorry if you're the guy that heaps praise upon every recruit, deserving or not, without seeing them play in an OU uni. I'm the other guy.

Believe me, I hope that every one of the players I discussed hits the high end that I discussed for them, and we're Final Four caliber next season. More realistically, though, is a Sweet 16 team that fights hard before bowing out to a more-experienced/better coached squad.

...but in TWO years...

the_ouskull

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Just to get my credentials out there, my wealth of basketball knowledge comes from years of sitting on my couch with beer in hand and yelling at the tv.

So it's my opinion that Patillo is the next Scottie Pippen and WW is the next Jordan. And I think that just cause that's the way it should be.

[the_ouskull]

You are completely right... except, at his height, Warren is more likely to be the next D-Wade.

the_ouskull

[Eielson]

Does anybody think that with Hardrick transferring to Putnam City that we might have a shot with Henry?

Man, I thought Putnam City basically had a championship locked up as it was. With Hardrick, they will probably go undefeated.

[soonerfan28]

No. It's Memphis or Kansas.

[the_ouskull]

I don't think Memphis is going to have the same kind of season again. (Oh geezum, it's a "blanket statement...")

Obviously, losing Rose hurts, but, moreso than that... their DDM offense is something that every coach in the country is now spending their summer camping out, learning how to stop it from the coaches that both use it, and see a lot of it.

Coach K at Duke. "Knight" throughout his career. etc, etc... As coaches get older, they either adapt to changing times and they change their offensive and defensive sets; hereby allowing themselves to continue to win... OR, they have so much success with their sets that they are able to bring in McDAA-caliber players every season to replace the NBA-ready(ish) players that just left. Then, instead of coaching anymore, they just roll out the best athletes in the country and let them do whatever. Coach K is soooo much better than that, and it makes me sad to see. When Capel, et al.. played at Duke, there were some highly-recruited names, sure, but there were also some less-familiar names, and some goofy white kids. (Not to be confused with The Whitest Kids U' Know, who are hilarious...) But they won. Same thing happened here at OU. With a bunch of overlooked and under appreciated players who had been playing out of position, Stoops came in, implemented an awesome system, and won it all in two years time. Then, because of that success and his own air of personal awesomeness, he was able to trade in the 3 star Kejuan Jones's's of the world for the 5-star, All-Everything Adrian Peterson's of the world. The J.T. Thatcher's of the world for the Supermen of the world. But, sadly, while those players were awesome enough to get to the top of the mountain a number of times, they didn't have the same heart; the same drive, that those 3-star players did; on some subconscious level, the "better" players weren't always better when it mattered most; they didn't have a scraper for the bottom of the well...

Also, the best coaches run camps. They teach their craft to other coaches from across the country, hoping one day to perhaps add said coach(es) to their own staff, once they've proven proficient running our offensive and defensive sets at their own smaller, less high-profile school. However, in these camps, many "secrets of the trade" are given away, sometimes to the enemy.

(If I recall, and it could just be a Natty Light flashback, (...sponsored by Natural Light - if you're broke, it's not half-bad!) didn't Boise State attend Stoops' summer sessions a couple of years before they pulled a rabbit out of their collective *ss?)

...and Kansas, with Bill Self, is, in my humble opinion, a lot more likely to go the Duke route... Get a lot of highly-recruited NBA-prospect types, and roll the ball out there for them. It'll get you places, and quickly... but it usually won't get you over "the hump."

I love basketball season! I love finding out if I'm right or wrong. I love finding out why. By the time I die, I may have just about figured this crazy roundball game out.

the_ouskull