Dear Anti-Child Immunizers and other tinfoil hat wearers...

[Okla-homey]

For your kids' sake, and the sake of society, please read this Time article.

Also, please note, despite the fact there is no mercury preservative in childhood vaccines, nor has there been for several years, the rate of autism diagnoses has not declined in the United States.


In the seven years since the cleaned-up vaccines were introduced, new cases of autism continue to climb, reaching a rate of 1 in every 150 8-year-olds today. That trend suggests that other factors, including heightened awareness of the condition and possible genetic anomalies or environmental exposures, are behind the climbing rates. What's more, in the decade since Wakefield's watershed paper, 10 of its 13 authors have retracted their hypothesis, admitting that the study did not produce solid enough evidence to support a connection between the measles virus in the MMR vaccine and autism.

and check this out,


Some parents have taken to cherry-picking vaccines, leaving out only the shots they believe their children don't need—such as those for chicken pox and hepatitis B—and keeping up with what they see as the life-or-death ones.

But that can be a high-stakes game, as Kelly Lacek, a Pennsylvania mother of three, learned. She stopped vaccinating her 2-month-old son Matthew when her chiropractor raised questions about mercury in the shots. Three years later, she came home to find the little boy feverish and gasping for breath. Emergency-room doctors couldn't find the cause—until one experienced physician finally asked the right question. "He took one look at Matthew and asked me if he was fully vaccinated," says Lacek. "I said no."

It turned out Matthew had been infected with Hib, a virus that causes meningitis, swelling of the airway and, in severe cases, swelling of the brain tissue. After relying on a breathing tube for several days, Matthew recovered without any neurological effects, and a grateful Lacek immediately got him and his siblings up to date on their immunizations. "I am angry that people are promoting not getting vaccinated and messing with people's lives like that," she now says.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1808438,00.html

[Dio]

Time also says I should drive a Prius, support socialized medicine, and vote for Messiah Obama. Out.

[DrZaius]

Parents are dumb......I would rather take my chances with the shots than my chance with death.

[Harry Beanbag]

Yeah, people aren't really thinking it through. We brought this up to our boy's pediatrician just to get his take on the subject, and I believe he would strangle Jenny McCarthy with his bare hands if given the opportunity.

[achiro]

Wow, you just can't let this go. It could easily be argued that your "we're all gonna die without vaccines" fear mongering is a kool-aid drinking, tin foil hat wearing stance.
The idea that parents that choose not to vaccinate are somehow "dumb" is ignorant at best. Do you seriously think that the parents don't research it before making such a huge decision??? The article mentions hib, one of the few studies actually done on it showed that of those that caught hib in a year, over half HAD BEEN VACCINATED!...

I'm pretty much done on this subject. We've hashed it out before, I've given you contacts to talk to and websites to research the "other side" which I assume you haven't pursued. It is much easier to continue your uneducated ignorant rants full of insults and bashes than it is to actually look into it objectively and seek out the information available to you. When you take the time to educate yourself on both sides of the subject I will be more than happy to talk to you about it but until then you might want to know that tin foil is on sale at your local grocery store.

BTW, I have NEVER told anyone not to vaccinate. When asked in my office, I give info both for and against and tell the person to research it, educate themselves and then make the decision. BTW, Time magazine isn't on my list of refered materials.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

But that can be a high-stakes game, as Kelly Lacek, a Pennsylvania mother of three, learned. She stopped vaccinating her 2-month-old son Matthew when her chiropractor raised questions about mercury in the shots.

'Nuff said.

Stick to poppin' backs.

[achiro]

nevermind

[NormanPride]

This can't possibly end well. Mods?

[OUDoc]

I'm pretty much done on this subject. We've hashed it out before, I've given you contacts to talk to and websites to research the "other side" which I assume you haven't pursued. It is much easier to continue your uneducated ignorant rants full of insults and bashes than it is to actually look into it objectively and seek out the information available to you. When you take the time to educate yourself on both sides of the subject I will be more than happy to talk to you about it but until then you might want to know that tin foil is on sale at your local grocery store.


I, too, am done with this topic, but take issue with what you said above. I see it as uneducated and ignorant to NOT vaccinate. But, I respect your opinion, as I'm sure you didn't come by it without a lot of thought and research, just as I have done. We just aren't going to agree on this.

[C&CDean]

What I see is some EDUCATED ignorant rants from both sides.

And for the record, I don't believe in flu shots. EVAR.

[Sooner_Havok]

And for the record, I don't believe in flu shots. EVAR.

Flue shots = waste of money.

Childhood immunization = FTW

But I don't care, I gots my shots when I was wee, gots my collar tags to prove it :D

If'en they get sick, I should still be good, right Doc?

[Mjcpr]

This can't possibly end well. Mods?

Why was I not notified NP was hall monitor this week?

:D

[Okla-homey]

For the record, as long as the health of innocent children and our society at large is in jeopardy by agenda-totin' anti-immunizers, I will nevar "let this go."

This anti-vaccination viewpoint must be consigned to history's ashheap of bogosity right next to the belief in witches, bleeding to rid the body of harmful "humours" and fear of flouridated water.

[NormanPride]

Why was I not notified NP was hall monitor this week?

:D

Because we set up a sting to catch you when you go on your post-lunch "pee break".

[frankensooner]

Poor Pat. Don't bother him on his pee break, I understand he is "pee shy".

[Sooner_Havok]

http://thunderlounge.com/files/2007/09/tfha.gif

[Taxman71]

Just so you know, Tom Cruise doesn't believe in immunizations either.....do you want to be THAT company?

[tbl]

And for the record, I don't believe in flu shots. EVAR.

Absolutely. My wife chooses to get them for her and our kids, and guess who never gets the flu?

[soonerbrat]

why do chiropractors hate children?

[OKC-SLC]

The article mentions hib, one of the few studies actually done on it showed that of those that caught hib in a year, over half HAD BEEN VACCINATED!...

Like OUDoc, you and I simply aren't going to agree on this. But I'd love to see this 'reference'.

And your statement, "one of the few studies actually done on it..."? WTF are you talking about? A PubMed search on the term "hemophilus influenza" returns 16591 hits.

[frankensooner]

why do chiropractors hate children?

Their backs are a lot harder to crack.

[achiro]

For the record, as long as the health of innocent children and our society at large is in jeopardy by agenda-totin' anti-immunizers, I will nevar "let this go."

This anti-vaccination viewpoint must be consigned to history's ashheap of bogosity right next to the belief in witches, bleeding to rid the body of harmful "humours" and fear of flouridated water.

and I will say again that until you take the time to look into why people choose not to vaccinate that you are approaching from a point of complete ignorance on the subject. You can be fully informed on one side and still not have a clue.

Also, I might add that at some point I hope that folks on this board realize that every time they decide to rant on Chiropractic I do take it personal. It is a huge part of who I am. All fun and games for a few of you, I've put up with it for a long time around here. I've tried to educate, spent way more time than I ever should have on trying to educate and of course it doesn't change. I found it very ironic that you took your ball and went home when the heat was on last week with the military stuff but you are the first to jump in on me every chance you get. It would be different if there was any kind of realisitic factual info in there but there is nothing but ignorance, I give you facts and research and instead of even trying to counter it with intelligent debate all I get in return is insults. The proof is in the pudding, put up or shut up.

[achiro]

Like OUDoc, you and I simply aren't going to agree on this. But I'd love to see this 'reference'.

And your statement, "one of the few studies actually done on it..."? WTF are you talking about? A PubMed search on the term "hemophilus influenza" returns 16591 hits.

I meat research on vaccinated v non vaccinated aquiring hib. The one I was referencing was done in 94 or 95, can't remember who it was but I'm sure you can find it if you have access to PubMed.

[Hamhock]

this thread could use some Giada pics too.

[C&CDean]

and I will say again that until you take the time to look into why people choose not to vaccinate that you are approaching from a point of complete ignorance on the subject. You can be fully informed on one side and still not have a clue.

Also, I might add that at some point I hope that folks on this board realize that every time they decide to rant on Chiropractic I do take it personal. It is a huge part of who I am. All fun and games for a few of you, I've put up with it for a long time around here. I've tried to educate, spent way more time than I ever should have on trying to educate and of course it doesn't change. I found it very ironic that you took your ball and went home when the heat was on last week with the military stuff but you are the first to jump in on me every chance you get. It would be different if there was any kind of realisitic factual info in there but there is nothing but ignorance, I give you facts and research and instead of even trying to counter it with intelligent debate all I get in return is insults. The proof is in the pudding, put up or shut up.

In all honesty, until you told us you were a chiro, I always assumed your handle was like the japanese dude who used to own the Samurai Saki House. Achiro. Maybe you should have just played japanese...

Chiropracty will always get a bum rap. Why? Mainly because there's a perception that it's kinda like voodoo medicine. With me, it stems from a chiropractor trying to convince my ex-wife that chiropracty will cure my son's asthma, her constant bronchitis, and my ****ty attitude. There's some in your profession that claim cracking the neck will cure toenail fungus, cancerous tumors in your small intestine, and make you a lottery winner.

You guys are the black sheep of the medical world. I'm pretty sure nobody here is attacking you personally with their chiropractor jokes, but you've gotta understand it comes with the territory. Many people benefit greatly from it and swear by it. Many do not. As long as you're happy with your chosen profession, and your cash registers runs a solid "cha-ching" then you should just smile and tell us to all collectively go **** ourselves.

[frankensooner]

You know, I'm glad I'm a lawyer and don't ever have to put up with any of this make fun of someone's profession, right lid, oldnslo? ;)

[yermom]

what do you call frankensooner, Lid and Oldnslo in the bottom of the ocean?

[C&CDean]

what do you call frankensooner, Lid and Oldnslo in the bottom of the ocean?

Whale ****?

Not enough water?

........a good start......

[soonerbrat]

a good start?

[frankensooner]

A good start, oh, I forgot rus. He was driving the car the went over the cliff and you know a shark won't eat us out of professional courtesy?! :D

[frankensooner]

Oh and there are skid marks in front of the snake.

[soonerbrat]

frank, are you crying yet? are your feelbads hurt?

[frankensooner]

No, when they remove our conscience in law school we don't get hurt feelers no mo. ;)

[Beef]

As long as you're happy with your chosen profession, and your cash registers runs a solid "cha-ching" then you should just smile and tell us to all collectively go **** ourselves.

Can I tell everyone to go **** themselves even if I'm not a chiro?

[C&CDean]

Can I tell everyone to go **** themselves even if I'm not a chiro?

Abso****inglutely. Of course your cash register ain't cha-chinging like chiro's though.

[soonerbrat]

Can I tell everyone to go **** themselves even if I'm not a chiro?

i say yes.

[soonersis]

ok, I feel it is my time to throw my opinion out there. I believe that I may be somewhat uniquely qualified to argue both sides. First, I was injured by a vaccination back in the 70s. I suffered from mild to severe muscle necrosis on my left thigh due to the DTaP vaccination. Second, I was also given all of my vaccinations as a child being that my mother was in the health field and worked for a pediatrician. While I would never want to purposely hurt my own child I would also not want to purposely hurt someone else's child by allowing the spread of a communicable disease.

From what I have seen working in the health industry, the vaccinations do much more good than harm. The flu season may have been bad this year but it could have been much, much worse. I turned out ok, though I have knee issues due to the muscle problems in my leg, and the vaccinations I was given did have mercury in them. (no brain damage except that from college) As I see it, if my child does get ill from a vaccine (ie get the chickenpox after the varicella vaccine) it will more likely be a much more mild case than he/she would have gotten without the recommended vaccine.

I just can't see why refusing the vaccines because of a small percentage of injury. To me that would be like not wearing a seat belt because less than 1% of people die because of the fact they were wearing a seatbelt.

I know this makes sense in my mind and may not make a whole heap of difference to anyone else, but I thought you all might like a slightly different perspective.

[OKC-SLC]

I meat research on vaccinated v non vaccinated aquiring hib. The one I was referencing was done in 94 or 95, can't remember who it was but I'm sure you can find it if you have access to PubMed.

A Pubmed search on "hemophilus vaccination" resulted in 1731 hits. I didn't look at them all, but of the first 20 there are 6 epidemiological studies examining the current pathogenic role of h. influenza in countries such as Thailand, China, Iceland, the USA...all of them describe the role of H. flu as being essentially nil, using words such as "disappeared." And these first 20 hits only go back to March 2008.

I'm not sure the preponderance of data accessible via PubMed is going to support your position.

[soonerbrat]

I meat research on vaccinated v non vaccinated aquiring hib. The one I was referencing was done in 94 or 95, can't remember who it was but I'm sure you can find it if you have access to PubMed.

you're relying on data generated 14-15 years ago?

[OKC-SLC]

From UpToDate.com (copyrighted)--summarizes the impact of Hib vaccination. The bracketed numbers are the citations--I'd be happy to provide them if interested. UpToDate has become the preeminent medical reference database/text, web-based or hard print.

"H. influenzae serotype b — H. influenzae is an exclusively human pathogen; it is transmitted from person to person via airborne droplets and direct contact with respiratory secretions [1] . Prior to the routine use of H. influenzae serotype b (Hib) conjugate vaccines in infants, invasive Hib was the leading cause of bacterial meningitis in children; 85 percent of these infections occurred in children under five years of age [20] . Hib was also a leading cause of epiglottitis, pneumonia, empyema, pericarditis, bacteremia, and septic arthritis. Invasive Hib infections reflect the organism's capacity for vascular invasion and establishing metastatic foci of infection including meningitis, septic arthritis, osteomyelitis and cellulitis [14] .

Prior to routine vaccination, the incidence of invasive Hib disease was 67 to 130 cases per 100,000 children per year, and the incidence of Hib meningitis was 40 to 69 cases per 100,000 children per year. This incidence was equivalent to approximately 25,000 cases of acquired invasive Hib annually in the United States, or invasive infection in 1 per 200 children in the first five years of life [21] .

Before widespread immunization, the secondary attack rate among children who were household contacts of an index case was 0.3 percent, which is 500-fold higher than the age-adjusted risk in the general population [19] . This risk of secondary infection increased inversely with age; children under four years of age were at greatest risk, and clinical disease was most likely in the first 30 days after exposure to the index case [22-28] .

However, the widespread use of conjugate Hib vaccines in infancy has led to a dramatic decline in invasive Hib disease in children to approximately 1 per 100,000 [4,29] . The incidence of invasive disease among individuals over five years of age has been stable at approximately 0.5 per 100,000 population. Most cases of invasive H. influenzae infection since introduction of the Hib vaccination have been attributable to non-type B strains [20,30] . Children who experience Hib disease despite vaccination may have an immunologic defect impairing production of memory B cells [31]."

[C&CDean]

ok, I feel it is my time to throw my opinion out there. I believe that I may be somewhat uniquely qualified to argue both sides. First, I was injured by a vaccination back in the 70s. I suffered from mild to severe muscle necrosis on my left thigh due to the DTaP vaccination. Second, I was also given all of my vaccinations as a child being that my mother was in the health field and worked for a pediatrician. While I would never want to purposely hurt my own child I would also not want to purposely hurt someone else's child by allowing the spread of a communicable disease.

From what I have seen working in the health industry, the vaccinations do much more good than harm. The flu season may have been bad this year but it could have been much, much worse. I turned out ok, though I have knee issues due to the muscle problems in my leg, and the vaccinations I was given did have mercury in them. (no brain damage except that from college) As I see it, if my child does get ill from a vaccine (ie get the chickenpox after the varicella vaccine) it will more likely be a much more mild case than he/she would have gotten without the recommended vaccine.

I just can't see why refusing the vaccines because of a small percentage of injury. To me that would be like not wearing a seat belt because less than 1% of people die because of the fact they were wearing a seatbelt.

I know this makes sense in my mind and may not make a whole heap of difference to anyone else, but I thought you all might like a slightly different perspective.

Nah, we don't care what you think, but we like the tittays are awesome avator so post more often.:texan:

[achiro]

From UpToDate.com (copyrighted)--summarizes the impact of Hib vaccination. The bracketed numbers are the citations--I'd be happy to provide them if interested. UpToDate has become the preeminent medical reference database/text, web-based or hard print.

"H. influenzae serotype b — H. influenzae is an exclusively human pathogen; it is transmitted from person to person via airborne droplets and direct contact with respiratory secretions [1] . Prior to the routine use of H. influenzae serotype b (Hib) conjugate vaccines in infants, invasive Hib was the leading cause of bacterial meningitis in children; 85 percent of these infections occurred in children under five years of age [20] . Hib was also a leading cause of epiglottitis, pneumonia, empyema, pericarditis, bacteremia, and septic arthritis. Invasive Hib infections reflect the organism's capacity for vascular invasion and establishing metastatic foci of infection including meningitis, septic arthritis, osteomyelitis and cellulitis [14] .

Prior to routine vaccination, the incidence of invasive Hib disease was 67 to 130 cases per 100,000 children per year, and the incidence of Hib meningitis was 40 to 69 cases per 100,000 children per year. This incidence was equivalent to approximately 25,000 cases of acquired invasive Hib annually in the United States, or invasive infection in 1 per 200 children in the first five years of life [21] .

Before widespread immunization, the secondary attack rate among children who were household contacts of an index case was 0.3 percent, which is 500-fold higher than the age-adjusted risk in the general population [19] . This risk of secondary infection increased inversely with age; children under four years of age were at greatest risk, and clinical disease was most likely in the first 30 days after exposure to the index case [22-28] .

However, the widespread use of conjugate Hib vaccines in infancy has led to a dramatic decline in invasive Hib disease in children to approximately 1 per 100,000 [4,29] . The incidence of invasive disease among individuals over five years of age has been stable at approximately 0.5 per 100,000 population. Most cases of invasive H. influenzae infection since introduction of the Hib vaccination have been attributable to non-type B strains [20,30] . Children who experience Hib disease despite vaccination may have an immunologic defect impairing production of memory B cells [31]."

Thats good stuff but although it mentions in the last line children who experience hib despite the vaccination and gives a THEORY as to why, it still doesn't answer the percentages of affecteds that were vaccinated v non vaccinated.
and Brat, unless there is recent data that challenges findings of a study(and there may be, I just haven't seen it), it does't matter how old it is.

[achiro]

ok, I feel it is my time to throw my opinion out there. I believe that I may be somewhat uniquely qualified to argue both sides. First, I was injured by a vaccination back in the 70s. I suffered from mild to severe muscle necrosis on my left thigh due to the DTaP vaccination. Second, I was also given all of my vaccinations as a child being that my mother was in the health field and worked for a pediatrician. While I would never want to purposely hurt my own child I would also not want to purposely hurt someone else's child by allowing the spread of a communicable disease.

From what I have seen working in the health industry, the vaccinations do much more good than harm. The flu season may have been bad this year but it could have been much, much worse. I turned out ok, though I have knee issues due to the muscle problems in my leg, and the vaccinations I was given did have mercury in them. (no brain damage except that from college) As I see it, if my child does get ill from a vaccine (ie get the chickenpox after the varicella vaccine) it will more likely be a much more mild case than he/she would have gotten without the recommended vaccine.

I just can't see why refusing the vaccines because of a small percentage of injury. To me that would be like not wearing a seat belt because less than 1% of people die because of the fact they were wearing a seatbelt.

I know this makes sense in my mind and may not make a whole heap of difference to anyone else, but I thought you all might like a slightly different perspective.

Good stuff Sis, your reasoning behind your decisions without bashing those who decide differently. The whole benefits outweighing the risk argument is really what is behind all of this. It's just that some have decided that the risk of, for example, HAVING chicken pox doesn't outweigh the risk of possible side effects for the vaccine. My opinion doesn't really matter here, just know that there are many people that think the risks of the vaccines far outweigh the risks of the disease they are suppose to help prevent. This isn't just about autism but links to asthma, diabetes, and several other serious issues.

Homey, I have given you the name of Dr. Dan Murphy before as someone to contact on the subject, here is a link to an article he wrote to give you some idea where he is coming from. and just for kicks and grins, a small sample from the article:(if you take issue with it, contact him, not me ;) )

1) The prevention of infectious diseases [with antibiotics and vaccinations] impairs the development of the immune system so that it is less capable of fighting more deadly diseases, including cancer.

2) Antibiotics and vaccination of children (especially DPT) increase asthma, eczema, hay fever, allergies, atopic disorders, insulin dependent diabetes.

3) Immunized children have twice the incidence of type-1 diabetes.

4) Mass immunizations have been linked to leukemia, diabetes, Guillian-Barre’, Autism, SIDS, Arthritis, Thrombocytopenia, Encephalitis, Death, SBS, Distressed Breathing, Thimerosal Accumulation in Brain, delayed speech, tics, seizures, hallucinations, dizziness, Hemorrhagic Vasculomyelinopathy etc. etc. etc.

5) There is a significant statistical association with immunization against diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough and acute lymphoblastic leukaemia.

http://www.chiro.org/Immunity/

[OKC-SLC]

Thats good stuff but although it mentions in the last line children who experience hib despite the vaccination and gives a THEORY as to why, it still doesn't answer the percentages of affecteds that were vaccinated v non vaccinated.
You are correct, it doesn't mention that particular information. Perhaps that is information either contained in or derivable from data in the original articles.

As for me, I can infer that information from the pre-vaccination rate of invasive Hib of 67-130 per 100,000 which is now post-vaccination 1 in 100,000.

1 in 100,000. Seriously. Down from 67-130 per 100,000. These are the kind of medical breakthroughs that change the world.

And when you are talking such a small number, it's doing to be difficult to devise much more than theory as to why those few kids don't respond to the vaccination the same as the bulk of them.

I do respect your opinions about vaccinations. But there is an awful lot of data in favor of them.

[soonerbrat]

Um, I seem to remember from pathogenic microbiology and immunology that vaccinating actually makes the immune system stronger, not the reverse.

[achiro]

But there is an awful lot of data in favor of them.
I agree with this, I have never said otherwise.

[OKC-SLC]

The concept of being "too clean" with regards to overuse of antibiotics, day care exposure, etc. is very well accepted in mainstream medicine as well, achiro.

Antibiotics have nothing to do with immunizations in the context of this debate.

And I'll accept whatever risk of ALL may be posed by DPT vaccination.

"Have been linked to..." comments are weak sauce, and this Dr. Murphy loses credibility trying to pass that off as legit.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

so,

vaccines > no vaccines

??

[OKC-SLC]

I have never said otherwise.

This is true.

[soonerbrat]

Nah, we don't care what you think, but we like the tittays are awesome avator so post more often.:texan:

where's my pig icon?

[achiro]

"Have been linked to..." comments are weak sauce, and this Dr. Murphy loses credibility trying to pass that off as legit.

I don't think you read the article in the link. I purposefully posted those things to "**** some of you off" enough to actually read it. :D

[Okla-homey]

I don't think you read the article in the link. I purposefully posted those things to "**** some of you off" enough to actually read it. :D

I especially enjoyed his piece on why peanuts will kill you. :D

http://www.danmurphydc.com/Aflatoxin.peanuts.pdf

[Sooner_Havok]

I especially enjoyed his piece on why peanuts will kill you. :D

http://www.danmurphydc.com/Aflatoxin.peanuts.pdf

Great. Thanks for posting that. Now I am going to go enjoy a PB&J sandwich and a cigarette. *** hole :D

[OKC-SLC]

I especially enjoyed his piece on why peanuts will kill you. :D

http://www.danmurphydc.com/Aflatoxin.peanuts.pdf
Nah, don't worry Homey. Your immune system protects you from things like this which are commonly ingested in small doses throughout life.

Unless you've been vaccinated--in which case your immune system doesn't work and you're screwed.



(Sorry Achiro, kidding)

[Okla-homey]

Unless you've been vaccinated--in which case your immune system doesn't work and you're screwed.



(Sorry Achiro, kidding)

rrrrrrrright. because that's a normal physical response. Kinda like lifting weights makes you weaker or running a couple miles M-F makes it impossible to run three miles on Saturday. Got it.;)

[Frozen Sooner]

It's funny how Homey and I agree on more things than we don't.

Water is wet.
Sky usually appears blue.
Immunization works.

[Beef]

Abso****inglutely. Of course your cash register ain't cha-chinging like chiro's though.

Sweet! Y'all all go **** yourselves.
And there are worse things in life than working for an oil & gas company these days. :gary:

[soonerscuba]

Now all those evil pathologists are out ruin him! (http://www.slate.com/id/2255259/)

I'm sure the chiropractic industry will be true to their scientific roots and admit their mistake any day now, soon as they finish bilking another impressionable customer.

[Leroy Lizard]

It's the same reason we believe that Vitamin C cures the common cold. Bad experimentation at the outset is tough to overcome. DDT still hasn't recovered its reputation.

[Soonrboy]

both of my kids got the chicken-pox after receiving the chicken-pox vaccines. People get the flu after receiving flu-shots. So, what guarantees do I have?

I'll admit, that I was like a sheep giving up my children to have them immunized without doing any research. We didn't ask questions.

The older I get the more I distrust pharmaceuticals and insurance companies. I wonder how many of the people saying "immunizations are harmless" work for a drug company? Conspiracy theories were never big with me, but as I get older...

[Dio]

And there are worse things in life than working for an oil & gas company these days.

You don't tweet for BP, do you? ;)

[Soonerfan88]

Neither my brother nor I were vaccinated for chicken pox - both got it and it really wasn't that traumatic.

We did get the standard Hep B, rubella, and rubeola. I think there was something else but not sure. I get flu shots as we are "required" to at work but I will lie about it sometimes and skip a year if I can. Luckily, the H1N1 was only voluntary this year and I refused it.

I haven't done any research on the new vaccines as I don't have kids so I have no dog in the fight. But I will say, a chiropractor has been able to relieve some of my breathing issues - not curing asthma, just making it a little easier for my lungs to work.

[picasso]

Ahem, haven't autism numbers increased due to the broad brush they use to diagnose it these days?
My neighbor told me when my son was born not to let him get his shots all at once.
I thought it was a pretty stupid thing to say.

[Phil]

What I see is some EDUCATED ignorant rants from both sides.

And for the record, I don't believe in flu shots. EVAR.

^^This.

I enjoys me a good flu once a year or so. Very restful, in an achy, fevery sort of way.

[soonerscuba]

I haven't done any research on the new vaccines as I don't have kids so I have no dog in the fight. But I will say, a chiropractor has been able to relieve some of my breathing issues - not curing asthma, just making it a little easier for my lungs to work.Chiropractors are useful and have their place, the arena of pathology is most assuredly not one of them. If dentists were a fraction as brazen as a substantial amount of chiros in giving out advice on immunizations there would be a national movement to start pulling liscenses.

[SunnySooner]

As mommy of two, both of mine are all shot up. In fact, my 11 yr. old just got his boosters the other day, including another dose of the chicken pox vaccine. It was pretty new when he got the 1st shot, and since then, enough kids who were vaccinated have caught the virus anyway, they now recommend a booster. So, if your kid has only had the one shot, talk to your Dr. about another round.

If you've ever had or loved someone who has had shingles, you will go to great lengths to protect them from chicken pox, because it's the same virus coming back to haunt you, only in a much more painful manner. Shingles are bad stuff, it's worth getting 15 vaccinations if needed, just to avoid them.

[Viking Kitten]

Count me in the pro-vaccination crowd. I think it's QED that the positives far outweigh any negatives. As a parent I would never forgive myself if my child got some awful disease like whooping cough because of my failure to immunize them. I am also curious if anyone could link to a study showing lower autism rates among unvaccinated children.

[yermom]

there are varying degrees on "anti-vaccination"

just suggesting that using mercury might be a bad idea or spreading out the individual vaccines grants you tin-foil hat status, apparently

[achiro]

Chiropractors are useful and have their place, the arena of pathology is most assuredly not one of them. If dentists were a fraction as brazen as a substantial amount of chiros in giving out advice on immunizations there would be a national movement to start pulling liscenses.

Yeah, you know 'cause we all get our degrees out of the back of a magazine. :rolleyes: Scuba, glad to see you don't limit your ignorance to politics.

[Okla-homey]

I didn't mention it a couple weeks ago when the British jackhole MD who started the anti-immunization trend with spurious and questionable "scholarship" liking childhood vaccs to autism had his license to practice medicine in the UK stripped.

I feel for folks with autistic kids, but the obsessive desire on the part of some of these parents, the ex-Playboy bimbette Jenny McCarthy chief among them, to blame someone or something other than their own genes for their kids' condition is pathetic.

[Okla-homey]

Chiropractors are useful and have their place, the arena of pathology is most assuredly not one of them. If dentists were a fraction as brazen as a substantial amount of chiros in giving out advice on immunizations there would be a national movement to start pulling liscenses.

If there was anything to chiropractic, the US military and the militaries of all western nations would have chiropractors in uniform serving with troops and treating the plethora of orthopedic injuries to which they are prone. But they don't. Hmmmm? Could it be? Do you hear a duck?

Heck, many states won't even license DO's to practice medicine because osteopathy is widely considered back east to be too dangerously close to chiropractic.

I say chiropractic is good palliative therapy for folks who have been banged-up and who beleive in it. But it can't cure disease anymore than any other homeopathy can.

[olevetonahill]

Hell No Do NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES imunise yer kids. Its a Gov. plot to kill em .
Ya know kinda like that nasty assed Pasteurized milk and shat.:rolleyes:

[Stitch Face]

If there was anything to chiropractic, the US military and the militaries of all western nations would have chiropractors in uniform serving with troops and treating the plethora of orthopedic injuries to which they are prone. But they don't. Hmmmm? Could it be? Do you hear a duck?

Heck, many states won't even license DO's to practice medicine because osteopathy is widely considered back east to be too dangerously close to chiropractic.

I say chiropractic is good palliative therapy for folks who have been banged-up and who beleive in it. But it can't cure disease anymore than any other homeopathy can.

Pssst. Homey. We had chiropractors in the clinic when I was stationed at Offutt and at Tinker. :O

They never helped the back painers any more than the lumbar voodoo I was prescribing, but a lot of patients went to them. It wasn't a good chronic option because it typically only helped for a very brief period of time, not long enough to get anyone deployment-ready. But anyway, the chiros I worked around on base were good guys who helped some of the broken troops somewhat and stuck to their realm (i.e. back pain and not ear infections). The only issue I ever had with them was they would tend to mysteriously see a lot of things on x-rays which our board-certified radiologists did not, so patients would come back and say "the chiropractor said I had X, Y, and Z all up and down my spine!" after the radiologist reported only a tiny bit of typical degeneration at L5-S1 or whatever.

[achiro]

If there was anything to chiropractic, the US military and the militaries of all western nations would have chiropractors in uniform serving with troops and treating the plethora of orthopedic injuries to which they are prone. But they don't. Hmmmm? Could it be? Do you hear a duck?

Heck, many states won't even license DO's to practice medicine because osteopathy is widely considered back east to be too dangerously close to chiropractic.

I say chiropractic is good palliative therapy for folks who have been banged-up and who beleive in it. But it can't cure disease anymore than any other homeopathy can.

You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
"On Friday, October 23, 1992, President Bush signed the Defense Authorization Bill (HR 5006). Section 505 of that bill authorizes the Secretary of Defense to "appoint chiropractors as commissioned officers in the armed forces to provide chiropractic care within the military health care system.""

and from the tricare website:

Chiropractic Care

The Chiropractic Health Care Program is available to active duty service members (including activated National Guard and Reserve members) at designated military treatment facilities (MTFs) throughout the United States.
List of current bases that provide chiro care:
http://www.tricare.mil/mybenefit/ProfileFilter.do?puri=%2Fhome%2Foverview%2FSpecial Programs%2FChiropracticCare%2FDesignatedLocations

as far as your DO stuff, I'm pretty sure that all states license DO's.

[achiro]

Pssst. Homey. We had chiropractors in the clinic when I was stationed at Offutt and at Tinker. :O

They never helped the back painers any more than the lumbar voodoo I was prescribing, but a lot of patients went to them. It wasn't a good chronic option because it typically only helped for a very brief period of time, not long enough to get anyone deployment-ready. But anyway, the chiros I worked around on base were good guys who helped some of the broken troops somewhat and stuck to their realm (i.e. back pain and not ear infections). The only issue I ever had with them was they would tend to mysteriously see a lot of things on x-rays which our board-certified radiologists did not, so patients would come back and say "the chiropractor said I had X, Y, and Z all up and down my spine!" after the radiologist reported only a tiny bit of typical degeneration at L5-S1 or whatever.
We actually have pretty decent results with chronic issues when given enough time to deal with them. There are a lot of factors of course but there is a huge difference in care between acute and chronic conditions. The military program is set up much more for the acute issues.

The x-ray thing is a whole different conversation.

[Okla-homey]

You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
"On Friday, October 23, 1992, President Bush signed the Defense Authorization Bill (HR 5006). Section 505 of that bill authorizes the Secretary of Defense to "appoint chiropractors as commissioned officers in the armed forces to provide chiropractic care within the military health care system.""

and from the tricare website:

List of current bases that provide chiro care:
http://www.tricare.mil/mybenefit/ProfileFilter.do?puri=%2Fhome%2Foverview%2FSpecial Programs%2FChiropracticCare%2FDesignatedLocations

as far as your DO stuff, I'm pretty sure that all states license DO's.

Okay. You win, since 1992, they have a chiro or two at several regional military medical centers. But that is a far cry from having them at the hundreds of military and naval medical facilities worldwide that have real doctors.

And you are correct, in 1989, after intense lobbying by the AOA, Nebraska was the last state to allow DO's full practice rights.

[soonerscuba]

Yeah, you know 'cause we all get our degrees out of the back of a magazine. :rolleyes: Scuba, glad to see you don't limit your ignorance to politics.Is there or is there not a large segment of your profession, including yourself, dispensing professional advice regarding vaccination while not having the requisite education to even write prescriptions? And are any of your schools associated with major research universities? I don't think chiropractors are evil, it's just that there is an unacceptable amount of quacks within their ranks needlessly x-raying and signing people up for 12 week adjustments because their hips are a mm uneven. There is obviously benefit in what you do, but your profession is rooted in mysticism and unsubstantiated research, that in certain cases refuses to accept that it's misguided, even in the face of overwhelming, peer-reviewed evidence.

[GottaHavePride]

Back to the original question:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64N21K20100524

The guy who did the original study that started the whole vaccines / autism connection has been banned from practicing medicine in the UK due to professional misconduct. Namely, his study was funded by people with a conflict of interest in the results of the study.

Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15016483

10 of his 11 co-authors have published retractions of the findings in the original study.

[goingoneight]

I solved this issue for myself by never making babies.

... and flu shots don't work.

[GKeeper316]

What I see is some EDUCATED ignorant rants from both sides.

And for the record, I don't believe in flu shots. EVAR.

me neither.

number of flu shots ive gotten in the last 10 years - 0

number of times ive been sick in the last 10 years - 0

and personally i have a theory that the rise in autism is due to the rise in cellular/digital communications technology... just a theory, but all these magnetic fields we are now exposed to may have some influence on developing fetuses. if i was a smarter person, id get a gubmint grant to explore it further.

[Stitch Face]

There are those who think statistically and those who don't.