Tornadoes, why so many?

[Sooner_Havok]

(WASHINGTON) — Another week, another rumbling train of tornadoes that obliterates entire city blocks, smashing homes to their foundations and killing people even as they cower in their basements.With the year not even half done, 2008 is already the deadliest tornado year in the United States since 1998 and seems on track to break the U.S. record for the number of twisters in a year, according to the National Weather Service. Also, this year's storms seem to be unusually powerful.

But like someone who has lost all his worldly possessions to a whirlwind, meteorologists cannot explain exactly why this is happening.

"There are active years and we don't particularly understand why," said research meteorologist Harold Brooks at the National Severe Storms Lab in Norman, Okla.

Over the weekend, an extraordinarily powerful twister ripped apart Parkersburg, Iowa, destroying more than 350 homes in the town of about 1,000 residents, said Gov. Chet Culver. At least four people were killed there. Among the buildings destroyed were City Hall, the high school, and the lone grocery store and gas station. Some of those killed were in basements.

The brutal numbers for the U.S. so far this year: at least 110 dead, 30 killer tornadoes and a preliminary count of 1,191 twisters (which, after duplicate sightings are removed, is likely to go down to around 800). The record for the most tornadoes in a year is 1,817 in 2004. In the past 10 years, the average number of tornadoes has been 1,254.

"Right now we're on track to break all previous counts through the end of the year," said warning meteorologist Greg Carbin at the Storm Prediction Center, also in Norman.

And it's not just more storms. The strongest of those storms — those in the 136-to-200 mph range — have been more prevalent than normal, and lately they seem to be hitting populated areas more, he said. At least 22 tornadoes this year have been in the top part of the new Enhanced Fujita scale, rating a 3 (for "severe") or a 4 ("devastating") on the 1-to-5 scale.

The twister that devastated Parkersburg was a 5 — the first in the U.S. since a tornado nearly obliterated Greensburg, Kan., just over a year ago. The Parkersburg tornado was the strongest to hit Iowa in 32 years.

So far, more than 50 of the deaths this year have been in mobile homes, the wrong place to be during a tornado. They have been a factor in nearly half of all tornado fatalities in recent years.

And if that's not bad enough, computer models show that the conditions that make tornadoes ripe are going to stick around Tornado Alley for about another week, according to Brooks.

The nagging question is why.

Global warming cannot really explain what is happening, Carbin said. While higher temperatures could increase the number of thunderstorms, which are needed to trigger tornadoes, they also would tend to push the storm systems too far north to form some twisters, he said.

La Nina, the cooling of parts of the Central Pacific that is the flip side El Nino, was a factor in the increased activity earlier this year — especially in February, a record month for tornado activity — but it can't explain what is happening now, according to Carbin.

Carbin explained the most recent tornadoes with just one word: "May." May is typically the busiest tornado month of the year.

A short-term answer is that the nation's heartland is stuck in a tornado rut with usually temporary weather conditions that can lead to tornadoes parked over the Plains, said Adam Houston, a professor of meteorology at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Cooler air at high altitudes and warmer moist air coming from the Gulf of Mexico are combining and settling over the region.

"You get day after day of severe weather and day after day of tornadoes until the pattern changes," Houston said.

But why that happens, Houston doesn't know. While scientists can forecast hurricane seasons, predicting their land-bound cousins is much harder, Brooks said. While tornadoes, like hurricanes, rely on large-scale weather phenomena, the crucial triggers are extremely local weather conditions.

On top of that, tornadoes have a "Goldilocks" issue. To make a tornado, the conditions have to be just right. Too much or too little of one ingredient and there is no tornado. For example, wind shear — when upper and lower winds are at different speeds or coming from different directions — is crucial to create a funnel cloud. Too little and there is no spin. Too much and the tornado falls apart.

And tornadoes form most often in late afternoon, between 5 and 9 p.m., so if a thunderstorm starts up early in the morning, it's far less likely to throw off a tornado, Brooks said.

As for why so many people are getting killed, Brooks suggests thinking of the landscape as a dartboard: "We're throwing more darts and throwing bigger darts than normal."

More people are living in mobile homes in the past few decades, and that has shown up in tornado fatality statistics. In 1970, about one-quarter of all tornado deaths were in mobile homes; now it's about half, Brooks said. In 1970, Census data showed that 3 percent of the U.S. population lived in mobile homes; now it is 7.6 percent, with a higher rate in the Southeast and other parts of Tornado Alley, such as Oklahoma, Brooks said.

But as deadly as this year has been, it used to be far worse in the United States. In 1925, tornadoes killed 794 people. From 1916 to 1936, tornadoes killed an average of nearly 280 Americans a year. That's because tornado warnings were not as good, people couldn't hear them and housing was not as sturdy, Brooks said.

Even with a busy tornado year, meteorologists are getting the word out. Of the 110 deaths so far this year, 101 came while there was a tornado watch in effect, according to the National Weather Service.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1809824,00.html

Oh, and BTW, **** YOU BUDDY!!!!! Why the hell does everyone feel the need to take jabs at Oklahoma?

[SoonerStormchaser]

Well, statistically, the bullseye of Tornado Alley is right over Oklahoma City.

[Fugue]

It's nuts this year.

KS had 90 reported from Thursday through Sunday.

[Sooner_Havok]

Well, statistically, the bullseye of Tornado Alley is right over Oklahoma City.

I don't care about the tornado part, I am proud of our twisters. I am ****ed at the "More people live in trailer homes in Oklahoma" jab.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Well, the guy saying it is in Oklahoma; so he's sorta entitled.

[Sooner_Havok]

****ing ****!!!!!!!

I am going to stop looking up facts!

http://www.epodunk.com/images/datamaps/trailer_map_400.jpghttp://www.epodunk.com/images/datamaps/trailer_map_key.jpg

The problem with facts are the can prove you wrong just as much as they can prove you right :mad:

[Sooner_Havok]

Well, the guy saying it is in Oklahoma; so he's sorta entitled.

He should still keep his damn mouth shut!:D

[BigRedJed]

The assertion that Oklahoma is some sort of tornado death zone is absolute claptrap. Here are the cold hard facts: the tragic Picher tornado this year was the first time someone has been killed by a twister in Oklahoma since 2001. Take away the 1999 freak tornado that hit Moore and elsewhere, and Oklahoma doesn't even make the top ten states for tornado deaths over the past decade.

Straight from the National Weather service:

2007 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2007deadlytorn.html) national tornado fatality statistics
2006 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2006deadlytorn.html)
2005 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2005deadlytorn.html)
2004 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2004deadlytorn.html)
2003 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2003deadlytorn.html)
2002 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2002deadlytorn.html)
2001 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2001deadlytorn.html)
2000 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/2000deadlytorn.html)
1999 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/1999deadlytorn.html)
1998 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/1998deadlytorn.html)
1997 (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/1997deadlytorn.html)

[BigRedJed]

Oklahoma as epicenter of deadly tornados is a myth, pure and simple. Based on annual statistics you are in far more danger from them living in Florida, Tennessee, Missouri, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia and elsewhere. If you pull the '99 total out (again, it was due mostly to a single tornado with never before witnesses scale), states like Ohio and Indiana look far more dangerous than here.

[Sooner_Havok]

Yeah, we are smart enough to know when to put down the camcorder and run the hell away.

[BigRedJed]

And I'm certainly not saying we don't have our share of them. Things like low population density throughout much of the state and exceptional tornado forecasting and preparedness also keep our death tolls lower. But people around the country have an unfair and innacurate perception regarding tornado danger here, in part because we're easy to take shots at and don't have anyone out there actively disputing the tag.

[olevetonahill]

The Reason there are so many this Year is Simple .
Its all the Hot Air that Politicos are spewing forth on the cold shouldered Indifference Of a Majority of the citizens.

[Sooner_Havok]

And I'm certainly not saying we don't have our share of them. Things like low population density throughout much of the state and exceptional tornado forecasting and preparedness also keep our death tolls lower. But people around the country have an unfair and innacurate perception regarding tornado danger here, in part because we're easy to take shots at and don't have anyone out there actively disputing the tag.

I have to admit, I have had fun with the perception of Oklahoma as tornado hell before. Back in the athletic dorms we got a kid in from Saudi Arabia who had never seen a honest to god thunderstorm before. He had heard of tornadoes though. The first time we had a tornado warning we convinced him that Norman was going to get hit like it always does( ;) ) and that the only safe place was in the Jones basement. Hell, the storm passed harmlessly by, the skies cleared, but he wouldn't come out from the basement cause we had told him tornadoes were like hurricanes and had calm eyes. It took him 2 hours to realize us Okies were screwing with him :D

[mdklatt]

La Nina

[BigRedJed]

I hate to keep saying "except for the May 3, '99 tornado...," but it truly was by all accounts an amazingly rare event, much like the one that hit Kansas a few years ago. Maybe once in a generation or even a lifetime does a state see something like that (we hope). So again, take that one storm out and PENNSYLVANIA has had more deaths (and has deadly tornados in more years) than Oklahoma. Same with Maryland.

And I agree, sometimes it's fun to screw with people. But I also can guarantee you that it (the perception) deters some people from living here, or even visiting and spending money here. It's just more of that Grapes of Wrath bull**** that makes it easy for people who have never been here to pigeonhole us as something we're actually not.

[Sooner_Havok]

Don't get me started on my Grapes of Wrath rant, it wouldn't be long till I got myself bained. :D

[VeeJay]

The Reason there are so many this Year is Simple .
Its all the Hot Air that Politicos are spewing forth on the cold shouldered Indifference Of a Majority of the citizens.

Goddam!

Did you think that up?? :confused:

[olevetonahill]

Goddam!

Did you think that up?? :confused:

Well yea.
Im a drunk , Not Stupid :P

[CORNholio]

Don't get me started on my Grapes of Wrath rant, it wouldn't be long till I got myself bained. :D

That whole "dust bowl" thing is a huge misunderstanding.

http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/refugee/images/dustbowl.gif


Oklahoma was barely even part of the dust bowl (much less than colorado, yet colorado is never mentioned). The majority was those damn dirty Texans and Jayhawkers who apparently blamed it on Oklahoma. Nearly half of Kansas was part of it. They are the true "dustbowl Okies" nobody even lives in the part that scathed Oklahoma.

On a side note :gary: fear the twister.

[Harry Beanbag]

Oklahoma as epicenter of deadly tornados is a myth, pure and simple. Based on annual statistics you are in far more danger from them living in Florida, Tennessee, Missouri, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia and elsewhere. If you pull the '99 total out (again, it was due mostly to a single tornado with never before witnesses scale), states like Ohio and Indiana look far more dangerous than here.


Tornado deaths? Sure, you're right. But the fact remains that Oklahoma has more tornadoes per square mile than any place on earth, and it's not really all that close. Oklahoma has earned the tornado king title. Okies are just better educated and understand the dangers more than most places, IMO.


http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/severeweather/small/avgf2psm.gif

[yermom]

that's what i was thinking... it's not that the tornadoes are less deadly, the people are just more likely to know they are coming

i mean the National Weather Center is in Norman for a reason...

[SoonerKnight]

We get taught at a very early age what to do if there is a tornado and we get taught what a wall cloud is etc.... Most people don't even know what a wall cloud is. When I moved to Cali and had to go through the big earthquake that hit there that was a lot scarier. I mean the freaking ground was shaking. I was asleep and all of a sudden the bed is moving!!!!!! I jumped up ran into the doorway and it was over! Later that day was watching the news and the stupid anchors ducked under the desk because of a aftershock. Aren't those desk pretty flemsy anyway? We have tornado season I'll take that over "Well the big one could come anytime!"

[Fugue]

Tornado deaths? Sure, you're right. But the fact remains that Oklahoma has more tornadoes per square mile than any place on earth, and it's not really all that close. Oklahoma has earned the tornado king title. Okies are just better educated and understand the dangers more than most places, IMO.


http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/severeweather/small/avgf2psm.gif

This was another crazy thing. There were 5 of these on the ground in KS at once this past weekend.

[r5TPsooner]

I hate to keep saying "except for the May 3, '99 tornado...," but it truly was by all accounts an amazingly rare event, much like the one that hit Kansas a few years ago. Maybe once in a generation or even a lifetime does a state see something like that (we hope). So again, take that one storm out and PENNSYLVANIA has had more deaths (and has deadly tornados in more years) than Oklahoma. Same with Maryland.

And I agree, sometimes it's fun to screw with people. But I also can guarantee you that it (the perception) deters some people from living here, or even visiting and spending money here. It's just more of that Grapes of Wrath bull**** that makes it easy for people who have never been here to pigeonhole us as something we're actually not.


I don't know whether to agree or disagree with that final paragraph. I have had to jump in my storm shelter exactly TEN TIMES in the year and 3 months that I've lived in Oklahoma. In ten years in Wisconsin, I jumped into a storm shelter ONCE.

IMHO, it's a huge decision whether or not to move your family to Oklahoma because of tornadoes, as the chances of a tornado wiping my house off it's foundation are statistically higher in Oklahoma than just about everywhere else with the exception of maybe Kansas and Texas, also places in which I've lived. The wife and I almost went to North Carolina instead just because of all of the ternaders that Oklahoma gets. It also didn't help that we were in the May 3 ternader in 1999. (We packed our bags about four months later for greener pastures.)

I'd take a few feet of snow any day over an F4 or F5 knocking on my back door. Also, when my wife and her colleague were trying to recruit other personnel from Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois when we decided to come back, some of them thought we still traveled by horse and buggy and that Oklahoma had absolutely nothing to offer except tornadoes and OU football... she couldn't even get them to visit, even though the financial offer and cost of living would have been a much better package in Oklahoma, than it was where they currently resided.

IMHO, the tornado perception that Oklahoma has nationally is well deserved.

[sooner_born_1960]

It's perfectly ok with me if people don't want to move here. We've got enough people.

[SoonerInKCMO]

I don't know whether to agree or disagree with that final paragraph. I have had to jump in my storm shelter exactly TEN TIMES in the year and 3 months that I've lived in Oklahoma. In ten years in Wisconsin, I jumped into a storm shelter ONCE.


I jumped into a storm shelter exactly twice in the 26 years I lived in Oklahoma. Having lived in Minnesota for six years, I can state without doubt that upper-Midwesterners are more afraid of thunderstorms and tornadoes than Oklahomans; do you think that may have played a large part in your going to the storm shelter so often in Oklahoma?

[BigRedJed]

I spent 18 years in Kansas and 22 years in Oklahoma, and I have been in a storm shelter... ...never.

In '98 I climbed into my hall closet when a wimpy twister bounced across Lake Hefner and through Nichols Hills, back when I lived in the hinterlands around 63rd and Villa. When I was a kid, we went to the basement a couple of times during storms. I can sincerely say that I am more concerned about being hit by lightning than I am a tornado.

As for the map that Harry put up, I agree that we have plenty of tornados, even more "per 10,000 acres," as the graphic says. But with the way they are distributed compared to the way the population is distributed, you are still far safer statistically than a number of places. And to be fair, Texas should be recalculated in that graphic due to the sheer size of it. There are large regions of that state that pretty much never have or will see a tornado. If you looked at the top half of the state, it would probably be pretty much exactly what Oklahoma is.

Plus, notice any other flaws in taking that graphic as gospel when deciding how dangerous it might be to live one place or another? A close second to Oklahoma is Indiana. INDIANA. By that logic more dangerous than Kansas, Arkansas, Tennessee? Who even mentally lists Indiana when thinking of states with lots of tornados? I still say the most compelling measure of how much you are at risk should be how many people die each year from tornados. Based on that, you should be more frightened to live in Tennessee, Ohio, or Florida.

Of course, you can pencil whip this thing to death and analyze the number on a per-capita basis, and Oklahoma will move up the list. My point is, when you ask people around the country to tell you what they know about Oklahoma, most of them will start and many will end with tornados. If you ask people where might be the scariest place to live based on tornadic events, most around the country will tell you Oklahoma. I don't think that those perceptions are substantially accurate, or based entirely on fact. That's all I'm saying.

[BigRedJed]

Oops. I did get a little basement time earlier this year, too. For a false alarm.

[mdklatt]

that's what i was thinking... it's not that the tornadoes are less deadly, the people are just more likely to know they are coming

i mean the National Weather Center is in Norman for a reason...

Oklahomans are a lot more weather savvy than people in other places, so that definitely helps. Say what you will about the TV weather weenies (lord knows I say plenty), but they save lives. The NWS offices in other parts of the country have the same tools to provide tornado warnings as we have here, but the local media has to get the word out. Somebody was telling me about a tornado warning he heard in Washington DC on the radio--it was thrown in as part of a traffic report. You folks out on the northwest side of the Beltway expect some slowdowns due to a reported tornado. Also, we don't get as many overnight tornadoes; those are the big killers in the southeast. Our tornadoes are also easier to spot and track visually due to the terrain. You don't go storm chasing in Arkansas. I also think the tornadic storms farther east are less obvious than the ones in the Great Plains. Here you're more likely to get the classic supercells spinning like a top, hook echo on radar, all that.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I think they are great for breakfasthttp://www.elmonterey.com/mexicanfood/tornados/images/80621-Ranchero-Beef-Steak-Cheese-XXLTornados-lrg.jpg

[BigRedJed]

Oklahomans are a lot more weather savvy than people in other places, so that definitely helps. Say what you will about the TV weather weenies (lord knows I say plenty), but they save lives. The NWS offices in other parts of the country have the same tools to provide tornado warnings as we have here, but the local media has to get the word out. Somebody was telling me about a tornado warning he heard in Washington DC on the radio--it was thrown in as part of a traffic report. You folks out on the northwest side of the Beltway expect some slowdowns due to a reported tornado. Also, we don't get as many overnight tornadoes; those are the big killers in the southeast. Our tornadoes are also easier to spot and track visually due to the terrain. You don't go storm chasing in Arkansas. I also think the tornadic storms farther east are less obvious than the ones in the Great Plains. Here you're more likely to get the classic supercells spinning like a top, hook echo on radar, all that.
Excellent points. I think a logical extension of a number of them, BTW, is that Oklahoma might also have a higher percentage of accurately documented tornadic events. What I mean is that few if any tornados happen "off the radar" here. With the amount of equipment, training and vigilence that is utilized by weather people in the state, an F-0 tornado 30 miles from civilization is still registered and documented ad nauseum.

In some of these other states with the meteorlogical/topographical limitations you mention, a number of twisters could happen, especially away from towns, in the middle of the night, and never be recognized as such. We take tornado recognition for granted here, and in other areas people are not as astute. That could result in lower reported numbers for them.

The main thing I'm driving at is best illustrated by where I live. I am surrounded by mile after mile of 70-100 year old homes and buildings, and I'm pretty sure none of them have been hit by a tornado in their entire existence. Certainly they haven't been hit by one of the foundation-scrubbers they like to show on the news. Of course, that could all change tomorrow (heaven forbid), just as the 250+ year old plantation home I toured in Charleston could be wiped from the face of the earth by hurricane in August.

The point is that statistically, it won't happen. People have an outsized fear of tornados and their chances of falling victim to one, and it is based on sensationalism and provincialism rather than reality.

[SleestakSooner]

All I know is if these local TV news broadcasters don't quit crying wolf EVERY ****ING TIME there is a cloud in the sky, there may really be a catastrophic death toll next time a big one rolls through a populated area.

The May 3rd tornadoes were indeed an anomoly in the sense that they hit populated areas and caused many deaths. But it was not just one tornado. There were as many as five f-2 or stronger twisters on the ground at the same time that day. I know, because I was out chasing the big one and was parked in front of it moments before it hit Moore.

I retired from storm chasing that day.

It wasn't the monster I watched devouring whole neighborhoods that put me off chasing. It was stopping along I-35 on my way to check on a friend and helping all the broken people laying in ditches.

Suddenly the thrill of seeing the big storm lost its luster.

When I finally got back to Norman and sat my *** down to have a beer, I could barely drink it from my hands shaking. I looked down to see blood stains from a little girl I had carried to an ambulance. I ordered a double shot and went to wash my hands.

I too have spent very few moments in a basement hiding from a storm and have lived 3/4 of my life in Oklahoma. But I am almost always aware of major storms and prepared to react if needed, most of us "Okies" are. It is called common sense. And if you ask me, I would just as soon not have those without it moving in around here.

With some storms, even common sense can't help you.

[Sooner_Havok]

Oklahomans are a lot more weather savvy than people in other places, so that definitely helps. Say what you will about the TV weather weenies (lord knows I say plenty), but they save lives. The NWS offices in other parts of the country have the same tools to provide tornado warnings as we have here, but the local media has to get the word out. Somebody was telling me about a tornado warning he heard in Washington DC on the radio--it was thrown in as part of a traffic report. You folks out on the northwest side of the Beltway expect some slowdowns due to a reported tornado. Also, we don't get as many overnight tornadoes; those are the big killers in the southeast. Our tornadoes are also easier to spot and track visually due to the terrain. You don't go storm chasing in Arkansas. I also think the tornadic storms farther east are less obvious than the ones in the Great Plains. Here you're more likely to get the classic supercells spinning like a top, hook echo on radar, all that.

It also doesn't hurt that we have to Oklahoma Mesonet, that each TV station has their own Radar, and that ever city from Pumpkin Center to Oklahoma city has a series of tornado sirens to help alert people.

[mdklatt]

I retired from storm chasing that day.

It wasn't the monster I watched devouring whole neighborhoods that put me off chasing. It was stopping along I-35 on my way to check on a friend and helping all the broken people laying in ditches.

Suddenly the thrill of seeing the big storm lost its luster.


I've heard the same thing from other chasers.

[r5TPsooner]

I jumped into a storm shelter exactly twice in the 26 years I lived in Oklahoma. Having lived in Minnesota for six years, I can state without doubt that upper-Midwesterners are more afraid of thunderstorms and tornadoes than Oklahomans; do you think that may have played a large part in your going to the storm shelter so often in Oklahoma?


I was born and raised in Oklahoma having only left for ten years starting in 1999 when I was 28 years old. There just weren't "that many" tornaders in that part of the country and the ternader sirens went off maybe 3-5 times in that time period. They've gone off that many times in NW OKC in a week.

So, to answer your question, NO.

[mdklatt]

It also doesn't hurt that we have to Oklahoma Mesonet

It's an asset for sure, but it doesn't do much in a tornado situation.

[BigRedJed]

...They've gone off that many times in NW OKC in a week...
That's a problem around here, IMO. When sirens go off, they go off county-wide. Back before forecasting was as precise as it is now that made sense, doing warnings on a county-wide basis.

But these days, having sirens go off in Moore when the skies are clear there, yet a twister is on the ground in Piedmont tracking NE, is unneccessary. I think it contributes to general apathy among the population, a "little boy who cried wolf" effect, and will ultimately kill someone who ignores the sirens, which go off all to often. I think we should better utilize the technology we now have at our disposal.

[mdklatt]

That's a problem around here, IMO. When sirens go off, they go off county-wide. Back before forecasting was as precise as it is now that made sense, doing warnings on a county-wide basis.


I don't understand why the TV guys haven't caught on to polygon warnings yet. They also do warnings county-by-county on their maps, even though the data they're getting from NWS is much more localized.

[sooner_born_1960]

A county is a polygon.

[Sooner_Havok]

It's an asset for sure, but it doesn't do much in a tornado situation.

It can tell us if there are winds below 319 mph (The speed the anemometers break). If you are looking at data coming in from some area outside major population areas and see that there are winds in excess of 100mph, that might be a good sign you got yourself a tornado. It can help when there aren't people there to verify what the radar is saying is what I am trying to say.

[mdklatt]

If you are looking at data coming in from some area outside major population areas and see that there are winds in excess of 100mph, that might be a good sign you got yourself a tornado. It can help when there aren't people there to verify what the radar is saying is what I am trying to say.

The odds of a tornado coming close to a Mesonet tower are very small, and odds of it surviving the encounter and continuing to send back data in real time are even smaller. The Mesonet is a boon for chasers, because it can tell you where storms are most likely to form. But once the **** hits the fan, radar and chasers are the best tools.

[Sooner_Havok]

The odds of a tornado coming close to a Mesonet tower are very small, and odds of it surviving the encounter and continuing to send back data in real time are even smaller. The Mesonet is a boon for chasers, because it can tell you where storms are most likely to form. But once the **** hits the fan, radar and chasers are the best tools.

Heh, I remember my days as a storm chaser down here. Guy at Sarkeys tells us to turn right, then says "You didn't turn right did you?" Drove straight into a hail core. :D

[mdklatt]

A county is a polygon.

county warning != polygon warning

For a thunderstorm/tornado, a polygon warning will be a wedge (much smaller than an Oklahoma county) centered on the path of the storm. The problem with polygon warnings is that they're hard to describe verbally, and even if you see it you might not know if you're inside the wedge or not if you are geographically challenged.

[Sooner_Havok]

county warning != polygon warning

For a thunderstorm/tornado, a polygon warning will be a wedge (much smaller than an Oklahoma county) centered on the path of the storm. The problem with polygon warnings is that they're hard to describe verbally, and even if you see it you might not know if you're inside the wedge or not if you are geographically challenged.

If a storm is traveling due East and is about to hit Piedmont (Northern Canadian County) there is no sense in sounding the sirens in Union City (Southern Canadian County)

[mdklatt]

If a storm is traveling due East and is about to hit Piedmont (Northern Canadian County) there is no sense in sounding the sirens in Union City (Southern Canadian County)

Well somebody needs to tell the emergency managers of Piedmont and Union City, then.

[C&CDean]

I've only been here about 18 years, and I've never set foot in a storm shelter. Unlike a lot of native Okies, I don't hide from storms, I seek them out and enjoy watching them. Probably mostly because I was raised in Tucson and we saw thunder clouds maybe twice a year - sometimes. I love it when the clouds build up and you start feeling that energy in the air.

I followed the May, 99 tornado in my Suburban with a TV in it. Once corrugated metal and chunks of brick, etc. started raining down I backed way off.

Of course I'm not an "official" stormchaser, and I don't get giant wood by seeing the "perfect storm." However, if a person cannot be completely amazed at the carnage left behind by an F-3+ tornado they're not breathing. When you see a Barbie doll stuck through a telephone pole or an address plate off a mailbox 5 miles away, or a locomotive twisted up like an Aunti Ann's pretzel you have to go "daaaaaang."

My first thought is always "God's power is amazing." My second thought is "Mother Nature can sure be a bitch when she wants to be."

[Flagstaffsooner]

Methinks that all the chemistry going on in Wister is making the atmosphere unstable.

[soonerbrat]

I spent 18 years in Kansas and 22 years in Oklahoma, and I have been in a storm shelter... ...never.

In '98 I climbed into my hall closet when a wimpy twister bounced across Lake Hefner and through Nichols Hills, back when I lived in the hinterlands around 63rd and Villa. When I was a kid, we went to the basement a couple of times during storms. I can sincerely say that I am more concerned about being hit by lightning than I am a tornado.

As for the map that Harry put up, I agree that we have plenty of tornados, even more "per 10,000 acres," as the graphic says. But with the way they are distributed compared to the way the population is distributed, you are still far safer statistically than a number of places. And to be fair, Texas should be recalculated in that graphic due to the sheer size of it. There are large regions of that state that pretty much never have or will see a tornado. If you looked at the top half of the state, it would probably be pretty much exactly what Oklahoma is.

Plus, notice any other flaws in taking that graphic as gospel when deciding how dangerous it might be to live one place or another? A close second to Oklahoma is Indiana. INDIANA. By that logic more dangerous than Kansas, Arkansas, Tennessee? Who even mentally lists Indiana when thinking of states with lots of tornados? I still say the most compelling measure of how much you are at risk should be how many people die each year from tornados. Based on that, you should be more frightened to live in Tennessee, Ohio, or Florida.

Of course, you can pencil whip this thing to death and analyze the number on a per-capita basis, and Oklahoma will move up the list. My point is, when you ask people around the country to tell you what they know about Oklahoma, most of them will start and many will end with tornados. If you ask people where might be the scariest place to live based on tornadic events, most around the country will tell you Oklahoma. I don't think that those perceptions are substantially accurate, or based entirely on fact. That's all I'm saying.

that "wimpy twister" continued on and wiped out my parents' house.

[soonerbrat]

oh, it will be 10 years next week since my parents locked themselves and my then 5 year old daughter in the closet and listened to the house crash around them

[BigRedJed]

Doesn't change the fact that when it was by my house it could barely break dead limbs off of trees.

[Sooner_Havok]

Doesn't change the fact that when it was by my house it could barely break dead limbs off of trees.

Did it sound like a freight train?

[r5TPsooner]

Did it sound like a freight train?

I was in the May 3rd tornado and trust me.... it didn't sound like a ****ing freight train. The people who say that are obviously uneducated or borrowing it from the media

It sounds like death on your doorstep and everything around you is in total chaos.

[Harry Beanbag]

We like maps in this thread. :)


http://www.tornadochaser.net/images/frequency.gif

http://www.tornadochaser.net/images/frequency.jpg

[Sooner_Havok]

What is up with the New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut area???

[Harry Beanbag]

I was wondering that too.

[Sooner_Havok]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/edv.jpg

[LilSooner]

Here is how hillbilly I am. In '99 when the big one hit I was in the wonderful town of Blanchard. Actually where our land is just 3/4 of a mile south of where it crossed 76 and went to Moore.

Ok here's the hillbilly part. We stayed out side the whole time watching it. My mom was pulling weeds the entire time and didn't even know there was a dang tornado.

Last year after we moved to Norman the sirens went off, what did hubby and I do?

We run out the front steps of our tree lined street to see if we could see it.

SO in closing in my 27 years on this earth I have never EVER been in a storm shelter. None of the houses that we have ever owned have even had a storm shelter.

[Harry Beanbag]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/edv.jpg



Looks kinda like a rock 'em sock 'em robot.

[Sooner_Havok]

Looks kinda like a rock 'em sock 'em robot.

Don't knock his block off...eh, it's just Iowa go fer it :D :D :D

[SoonerStormchaser]

You all are mere amateurs. Until you have "Stormchaser" in your screenname, you can NEVER be as awesome as I!


;)

[Sooner_Havok]

You all are mere amateurs. Until you have "Stormchaser" in your screenname, you can NEVER be as awesome as I!


;)

May I?

[olevetonahill]

You all are mere amateurs. Until you have "Stormchaser" in your screenname, you can NEVER be as awesome as I!


;)

Im all Heart broken and stuff :rolleyes:

[SoonerStormchaser]

And y'all should be :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

And y'all should be :rolleyes:

If I wuz an aggie . I could sing the song " there will Never be another Ewe"
Since I aint Ill Just let ur Missus sing it to you at night sos you can go beddy by

[Vaevictis]

Last year after we moved to Norman the sirens went off, what did hubby and I do?

We run out the front steps of our tree lined street to see if we could see it.

Bahahahahahahaha, this is #1 on my list of "You know how I know you're an Okie?"

Every time in my life when the sirens have gone off, all the native Okies nearby immediately ran to the yard to see if they can see it.

The non-native Okies tend to either: (1) Panic (2) Turn on the nearest TV/Radio (3) Head for the safe room (4) Ask what the **** is wrong with all the Okies heading to the yard.

[texas bandman]

I grew up in Moore and have seen my share of tornados and the aftermath. I have respect for their power and ability to destroy. One of the strangest was sometime in the mid seventies, I was outside playing in the bright sunlight. My Mom calls me inside to take a phone call. My best friend who lived 3 blocks south of me on Janeway is on the phone and he tells me to run over to his house that it just got hit by a tornado. I run to his house and see the back of his house ripped off. Their car was picked up and turned upside and while all this was going on I was playing in a light rain 3 blocks away. Strange things, tornados.