$4.06 gas

[Preservation Parcels]

Now, the stations around here are charging more for credit cards, too. They post the cash price on the sign, but at the pump, the cost is 8-12 cents/gallon more.

End of rant. Just had to get that off my chest.



Now it's time to get back to appreciating those who made it possible for us to enjoy our families, live in comfortable houses, drive all the cars we choose to afford, and a whole lot more.

[StoopTroup]

What about debit cards...are they hitting you higher for those too?

[r5TPsooner]

Honestly, I can't really say that I blame the business owner. By the time the state and feds get done taxing them, there profit on a gallon of gas is less than .03. The place will make more money if they sell you a Coca-Cola and a bag of Doritos. Also, the credit card companies don't work for free and there fees have increased in what they charge the business for accepting there particular card.

Also, when you compare what America is paying for a gallon of gas to say Europe (around $10 per gallon) America is getting off pretty good IMHO.

[StoopTroup]

I can blame who I want. :D ;)

I'd pay $6.00 a gallon if I knew where T. Boone was actually giving Full Service at the pump.

[Preservation Parcels]

What about debit cards...are they hitting you higher for those too?

Debit cards count as cash. Although the reasons make sense for the station owner, I'm just accustomed to putting most stuff on my credit card and then paying it off in full every month. It makes the expense tracking easier. It's time for some new tricks.

[OklahomaTuba]

Also, when you compare what America is paying for a gallon of gas to say Europe (around $10 per gallon) America is getting off pretty good IMHO.

Just wait till the liberals take control of the White House.

BS like "Global Warming" taxes, outragous profit taxes for energy companies & "personal CO2 caps" will follow right behind them.

The result, less money in our pocket, more money in the gubments pocket (for entitlements, special projects for their supporters and other wastefull spending) and the earth will continue to warm and cool as it always has for billions and billions of years.

[StoopTroup]

As long as I can free healthcare...I'll crawl to the Doctor. :D ;)

[King Crimson]

Just wait till the liberals take control of the White House.

BS like "Global Warming" taxes, outragous profit taxes for energy companies & "personal CO2 caps" will follow right behind them.

The result, less money in our pocket, more money in the gubments pocket (for entitlements, special projects for their supporters and other wastefull spending) and the earth will continue to warm and cool as it always has for billions and billions of years.

you nailed it as usual. it';s the liberals who are to blame for everything, except for Owasso.

[TUSooner]

At the bottom of it all, it's just supply and demand.

[Okla-homey]

You know...it succs to pay what we're paying for it, but IMHO it would contradict my basic free-market beliefs if gubmint waltzes in to "fix it" by any measure short of freeing up new supplies.

The thing is, those companies charging the prices they're charging have shareholders who would be screaming bloody murder if they were eschewing available profits. See kids, libz think its bad for anyone to make a profit on anything that is considered a necessity. E.g. "obscene" profit on gas, food, medicine, etc. = BAD. Equally obscene profit on cosmetics, cell phones, starbucks coffee, designer clothing = GOOD.

The way I see it is this, until the libz get realz and support (or at least cease opposition) to 1) off-shore drilling, 2) new refinery construction, 3) drilling in ANWR and 4) nuke power for electricity production, we're doomed to these prices. It's simple really. Free up supplies and prices go down.

And they won't do that before November because they hope to ride $5.00 gas to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[StoopTroup]

Again...

If George Walker Bush would quit screwing around and bring OBL in Dead or Alive...I will vote for John McCain.

If that happened I wouldn't care if gas was $15.00 a gallon.

They'd get my vote.

[Preservation Parcels]

You know...it succs to pay what we're paying for it, but IMHO it would contradict my basic free-market beliefs if gubmint waltzes in to "fix it" by any measure short of freeing up new supplies.

The thing is, those companies charging the prices they're charging have shareholders who would be screaming bloody murder if they were eschewing available profits. see kids, libz think its bad for anyoe to make a profit on anything that is considered a necessity. E.g. "obscene" profit on gas, food, medicine, etc. = BAD. Equally obscene profit on cosmetics, cell phones, starbucks coffee, designer clothing = GOOD.

The way I see it is this, until the libz get realz and support (or at least cease opposition) to 1) off-shore drilling, 2) new refinery construction, 3) drilling in ANWR and 4) nuke power for electricity production, we're doomed to these prices. It's simple really. Free up supplies and prices go down.

And they won't do that before November because they hope to ride 5.00 gas to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

As usual, you nailed it, Homey. It was embarrassing to see our President begging OPEC to free up supplies. We need to be good stewards of all of it, but we have a bountiful supply of resources right here at home.

Good to see you back!

[MR2-Sooner86]

Also, when you compare what America is paying for a gallon of gas to say Europe (around $10 per gallon) America is getting off pretty good IMHO.

I'm so sick and tired of that bull**** argument.

It's called supply and demand people. This is why big chains can get things cheaper than mom and pop shops. Also, Europe taxes more. Guess where they get their educational and healthcare money from? That's right, the taxes they put on their gas.

Also, lets not forget Europe is NOT the United States. Trains are dead over here while in Europe you can use them to get almost anywhere. Their buses are electrical. Not to mention oil is priced in dollars internationally. With a strong dollar, we could buy more. Now that the dollar is falling, countries with stronger currencies can buy more.

[r5TPsooner]

I'm so sick and tired of that bull**** argument.

It's called supply and demand people. This is why big chains can get things cheaper than mom and pop shops. Also, Europe taxes more. Guess where they get their educational and healthcare money from? That's right, the taxes they put on their gas.

Also, lets not forget Europe is NOT the United States. Trains are dead over here while in Europe you can use them to get almost anywhere. Their buses are electrical. Not to mention oil is priced in dollars internationally. With a strong dollar, we could buy more. Now that the dollar is falling, countries with stronger currencies can buy more.

Since it's a holiday my response is very simple....:rolleyes:

[r5TPsooner]

Just wait till the liberals take control of the White House.

BS like "Global Warming" taxes, outragous profit taxes for energy companies & "personal CO2 caps" will follow right behind them.

The result, less money in our pocket, more money in the gubments pocket (for entitlements, special projects for their supporters and other wastefull spending) and the earth will continue to warm and cool as it always has for billions and billions of years.

Being a Conservative Republican my response to your post is this... it's already been happening under Republican rule for the last eight years.

2007 was the 1st year where I did not receive a single tax credit for either of my three children ages 3, 5, and 6. Plus, if you make over 115k ( I think that's the number) you get drilled (and I do mean drilled) with what they call the "Convenience Tax."

The Republicans haven't acted like Republicans in a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time and I'm SOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of Republican voters acting like they have! They spend almost as freely with tax payer money as the Democrats do.

Like I said before, until we get a TRUE 3rd party in this country, the Democrats and Republicans will continue to spend our money and add pork whenever they can. They could care-a-less about you or me unless you're a millionaire like Bruce.

[badger]

I think its funny that the Democrats hate W. so much, when in fact he has been acting like a Democrat for going-on-eight-years.

How, you ask?
1- Spending a lot of money.
2- Spending even more money.
3- Spending, spending, spending...

About the only thing he's done on a Republican level is cut taxes, something that even the most liberal of us can appreciate. For example, my Oregonian relatives are buying Energy Star appliances with their stimulus checks :D

NP and I have made a tremendous change since the ice storm - we use one car. We commute together to work, its available to either of us should we need it during the work day (mostly me) and then we drive home together. The other one sits in front of the house, totaled as the day it planted itself under that ice-damaged tree and the big branch that landed on its back window, shatter shatter.

It's time to make sacrifices for the good of our country and family, friends. If you can't find ways to change, than you should stop finding ways to make petty excuses.


:D Besides, I hate driving :D

[soonerboomer93]

You know...it succs to pay what we're paying for it, but IMHO it would contradict my basic free-market beliefs if gubmint waltzes in to "fix it" by any measure short of freeing up new supplies.

The thing is, those companies charging the prices they're charging have shareholders who would be screaming bloody murder if they were eschewing available profits. see kids, libz think its bad for anyoe to make a profit on anything that is considered a necessity. E.g. "obscene" profit on gas, food, medicine, etc. = BAD. Equally obscene profit on cosmetics, cell phones, starbucks coffee, designer clothing = GOOD.

The way I see it is this, until the libz get realz and support (or at least cease opposition) to 1) off-shore drilling, 2) new refinery construction, 3) drilling in ANWR and 4) nuke power for electricity production, we're doomed to these prices. It's simple really. Free up supplies and prices go down.

And they won't do that before November because they hope to ride 5.00 gas to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.


Good news is that there is a new refinery being built. It's pretty large and will take a couple years though.

There are plans for some nuke reactors also.

[NYC Poke]

My gf has a weekend place in Litchfield County, Connecticut (NW corner). She recently passed a place that was charging $5.09/gallon.

[Okla-homey]

I'm so sick and tired of that bull**** argument.

It's called supply and demand people. This is why big chains can get things cheaper than mom and pop shops. Also, Europe taxes more. Guess where they get their educational and healthcare money from? That's right, the taxes they put on their gas.

Also, lets not forget Europe is NOT the United States. Trains are dead over here while in Europe you can use them to get almost anywhere. Their buses are electrical. Not to mention oil is priced in dollars internationally. With a strong dollar, we could buy more. Now that the dollar is falling, countries with stronger currencies can buy more.

Indeed. That, and the fact European folks (less the Brits) take home only about 35% of what they earn. Also...a couple observations.

One of the reasons trains are dead in the US is because of that snappy "just-in-time" approach to the manufacture and marketing of goods. Frankly, that approach is why Wally-World has a ginormous number of semi's on the highway.

The railroad time-to-point-of-use is longer, but the pipeline is wider and more efficient. IMHO, if them yahoos in Bentonville would decide to let a Wal-Mart in Dunwoody GA run out of Cheezy-poofs for a few days instead of rolling a truck as soon as the Cheezy-poof quotient drops below a pre-determined level, the railroads could handle it.

Instead, they are so worried about missing a Cheezy-poof sale, they do whatever they have to do to make sure they don't run out. Now, multiply that by the total number of products Wally-world stocks. That's a lot of dead dinosaurs to keep those shelves brimming folks.

Now, just imagine if those freight trains ran on electricity from safe, clean and uber-efficient nuke power plants?

Check this out. It's from a Euro-nuke trade association, but its pretty impressive nevertheless:


As of April 2008 there were a total of 197 nuclear power plant units with an installed electric net capacity of 169,901 MWe in operation in Europe and 13 units with 11,795 MWe were under construction in five countries.

On 1 April 2008 in 31 countries 439 nuclear power plants world-wide.

Thus, the Europeans have 45% of the world's nuke power plants. With what, around 20% of the Earth's population? Meanwhile, we just keep stoking these stinky old and inefficient coal-fired plants.

We need to get jiggy with nuke here in the USofA. We invented it for gosh sakes. Think about the oil saved by not needing to dig that crap out of the ground and choo-chooing it to the plants all hither and yon. Muey pronto!

source:
http://www.euronuclear.org/

[bluedogok]

Honestly, I can't really say that I blame the business owner. By the time the state and feds get done taxing them, there profit on a gallon of gas is less than .03. The place will make more money if they sell you a Coca-Cola and a bag of Doritos. Also, the credit card companies don't work for free and there fees have increased in what they charge the business for accepting there particular card.That is true, the retail outlets are the ones getting squeezed and most of them are locally owned franchises, just because they say Shell or Exxon on them doesn't mean that they are company owned. I have seen stores go through multiple franchises over the years all under the same owner.


Also, when you compare what America is paying for a gallon of gas to say Europe (around $10 per gallon) America is getting off pretty good IMHO.
BUT in Europe the average taxes on a liter of fuel (gas or diesel) is about 80% whereas our average fuel taxes are under a $1.00 a gallon depending upon state taxes.


Debit cards count as cash. Although the reasons make sense for the station owner, I'm just accustomed to putting most stuff on my credit card and then paying it off in full every month. It makes the expense tracking easier. It's time for some new tricks.
the transaction fees on debit cards are very small compared to what Visa/MC/Amex/Discover charge retailers on credit cards. And the card processing companies have been raising fees for both cardholders and retailers significantly.


Also, lets not forget Europe is NOT the United States. Trains are dead over here while in Europe you can use them to get almost anywhere. Their buses are electrical. Not to mention oil is priced in dollars internationally. With a strong dollar, we could buy more. Now that the dollar is falling, countries with stronger currencies can buy more.
The airline and auto industries have hurt passenger rail in this country but the biggest thing that kills any profitability for passenger rail is the sheer size of the US. It works in the Northeast Corridor because you have the mass centralization to make it cost effective like Europe. When you think that most of "Continental Europe" could fit in a space the area of the Southeast US you can see why it would be effective, plus the fact that they are gov't controlled or subsidized there.

[SoonerInKCMO]

The way I see it is this, until the libz get realz and support (or at least cease opposition) to 1) off-shore drilling, 2) new refinery construction, 3) drilling in ANWR and 4) nuke power for electricity production, we're doomed to these prices. It's simple really. Free up supplies and prices go down.

:les: REFINERIES AREN'T AT CAPACITY!!

[MR2-Sooner86]

One of the reasons trains are dead in the US is because of that snappy "just-in-time" approach to the manufacture and marketing of goods. Frankly, that approach is why Wally-World has a ginormous number of semi's on the highway.

The railroad time-to-point-of-use is longer, but the pipeline is wider and more efficient. IMHO, if them yahoos in Bentonville would decide to let a Wal-Mart in Dunwoody GA run out of Cheezy-poofs for a few days instead of rolling a truck as soon as the Cheezy-poof quotient drops below a pre-determined level, the railroads could handle it.

Instead, they are so worried about missing a Cheezy-poof sale, they do whatever they have to do to make sure they don't run out. Now, multiply that by the total number of products Wally-world stocks. That's a lot of dead dinosaurs to keep those shelves brimming folks.

Now, just imagine if those freight trains ran on electricity from safe, clean and uber-efficient nuke power plants?

That's why this country needs high speed rail systems. What is the average speed of a high speed rail? It's about 120 mph but they can get them to do 200-300 mph. All of it is with electricity.

Now what if Wal-Mart used high speed rail? I mean what is the speed of a semi? We're talking maybe 70-80 on a good highway. The train has the semi beat and can carry more. Sounds like a no brainer to me.


The airline and auto industries have hurt passenger rail in this country but the biggest thing that kills any profitability for passenger rail is the sheer size of the US. It works in the Northeast Corridor because you have the mass centralization to make it cost effective like Europe. When you think that most of "Continental Europe" could fit in a space the area of the Southeast US you can see why it would be effective, plus the fact that they are gov't controlled or subsidized there.

I have to disagree. What are the speeds of those high speed rails getting around? Aren't they getting close to 300 mph now? I don't think size is the problem. The United States only has one high speed rail train. While Europe, Indian, Japan, and China are building them in mass and making them faster, more reliable, and carry more.

[Frozen Sooner]

Opening ANWR would have no immediate impact on gasoline prices, and even when online would only have a few pennies impact on price.

This article shows that that DOE estimates that ANWR open would only lower the price of oil by .75/bbl.

http://www.adn.com/anwr/story/414808.html

We use a lot of oil.

I'm still down with opening it up, but let's not use bad arguments to do so.

[shaun4411]

a company in france is developing a car that runs on compressed air. right now they have a 2, 4, and 6 cylinder model. it uses small amounts of gas to complement the air for powering the motor. you can travel from los angeles to new york on a tank of gas.

[Okla-homey]

Opening ANWR would have no immediate impact on gasoline prices, and even when online would only have a few pennies impact on price.

This article shows that that DOE estimates that ANWR open would only lower the price of oil by .75/bbl.

http://www.adn.com/anwr/story/414808.html

We use a lot of oil.

I'm still down with opening it up, but let's not use bad arguments to do so.

You're dismissing the practical effects. I believe opening up ANWR could very well have a profound effect on OPEC far exceeding the literal effect on our supply needs. IMHO, based on spending a lot of time with those people, once they see we're not going to be beholden to them for most of our supply, it could very well have a severe splintering effect on the cartel. I say, drill ASAP in ANWR, throttle-up offshore drilling everywhere we have rights, nuke-up for electricity, give subsidies or outright convert poor folks home heating from fuel oil to electricity and OPEC bedamned. Oh yeah, electric choo-choos too. In a big way.

[Frozen Sooner]

IMHO, based on spending a lot of time with those people, once they see we're not going to be beholden to them for most of our supply

When are they going to see that, when we're only importing 66% of our oil from them instead of 70%? ANWR at peak production will not bring us to a point where we're producing most of our oil domestically.

Improvement is improvement, so let's do it, but it's massively overstating the case to say that it will significantly change oil prices or our dependence on mid-east oil.

[bluedogok]

That's why this country needs high speed rail systems. What is the average speed of a high speed rail? It's about 120 mph but they can get them to do 200-300 mph. All of it is with electricity.

Now what if Wal-Mart used high speed rail? I mean what is the speed of a semi? We're talking maybe 70-80 on a good highway. The train has the semi beat and can carry more. Sounds like a no brainer to me.
There was the Texas TGV high speed rail proposed in the early 90's when I lived in Dallas. A "Texas Triangle" of high speed rail connecting DFW-San Antonio-Houston. The airline lobby (especially those based in Texas like American, Southwest and Continental) effectively had the legislature kill it.


I have to disagree. What are the speeds of those high speed rails getting around? Aren't they getting close to 300 mph now? I don't think size is the problem. The United States only has one high speed rail train. While Europe, Indian, Japan, and China are building them in mass and making them faster, more reliable, and carry more.
In this country we would demand that it be privately funded, in those countries they are gov't funded and mostly managed by quasi-governmental entities. What private investors are going to fund high speed rail that is effective enough to connect the country? In England rail has been "privatized" but not really, it is managed by the company that I used to work for but it was still built with tax money and they get management money from the gov't.

The other issue is our short attention span society, even at 300 mph a direct NYC-LA route (sort of the litmus test) would still be 10 hours with no stops, you know a train taking that route would have to have stops along the way so the real time would be more in the range of 18 hours minimum instead of a 6 hour flight. From Hachinohe (Tohoku, Far Northeast Honshu) to Tokyo on the Shinkansen is roughly 4 hours for only 350 miles by air, on the ground it is a bit further which is a good time for the distance, but just not "fast enough" for most traveling Americans.

I wish we had effective rail but I don't see it happening in my lifetime unless fuel is pretty much triple (or more) what it is today. Only then will the market determine that a full scale passenger rail system would be cost effective and I still don't think it would ever be built without subsidies.

[r5TPsooner]

They can start drilling ANWR tomorrow and we won't see the oil for 10-15 years.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Opening ANWR would have no immediate impact on gasoline prices, and even when online would only have a few pennies impact on price.

This article shows that that DOE estimates that ANWR open would only lower the price of oil by .75/bbl.

http://www.adn.com/anwr/story/414808.html

We use a lot of oil.

I'm still down with opening it up, but let's not use bad arguments to do so.

ANWR's just the tip of the iceburg. What about the entire Eastern and Western seaboards? Even if you opened up all of that today, it would take 15 years to reach first production and that's not counting the 20,000 legal challenges that would likely slow down the process.

Face it folks, $5.00 a gallon gasoline is here to stay. It's time to get on the conservation bandwagon.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I got me a rental car this past weekend that was a hybrid Toyota Camery...for an extra $5 a day. And I only bought 6 gallons of gas when I topped it off before going back to the airport yesterday (after driving more than 350 miles on it).

[sooner n houston]

ANWR's just the tip of the iceburg. What about the entire Eastern and Western seaboards? Even if you opened up all of that today, it would take 15 years to reach first production and that's not counting the 20,000 legal challenges that would likely slow down the process.

I gotta call BS on this one, and frankly I'm real tired of hearing it too! IF we truely opened up ANWR today, and untied the hands of the producers, them hillbillys would have us some oil flowing in a matter of months.

Even if it would take years, how many more years do we use sit around and use the "it would take years" excuse?

[Okla-homey]

I gotta call BS on this one, and frankly I'm real tired of hearing it too! IF we truely opened up ANWR today, and untied the hands of the producers, them hillbillys would have us some oil flowing in a matter of months.

Even if it would take years, how many more years do we use sit around and use the "it would take years" excuse?

I tend to agree. And I don't care if it kills every caribou in Alaska. I've seen "There Will Be Blood" and I know what a dedicated oil man can do when he sets his mind to sumpin.' IOW, pretty much anything...except of course a Pokey football Big XII championship. Moreover, I'd be down with releasing about half the strategic oil reserve now.

We built up those stocks based on the Cold War paradigm in which all we would have would be what we had stored because the sea-lanes would be closed. The fact is, its not looking like we'll get into a big-time shootin' war with a peer opponent in my lifetime and as long as we have the ability to project power in support of our national interests, we can get oil to our refineries and gasoline to the Quik Trips.

If we ever do get into a scrap that closes the sea-lanes, it'll be decades hence and by then, we'll have flux-capacitors and personal home fusion devices to run our cars.:D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

They can start drilling ANWR tomorrow and we won't see the oil for 10-15 years.DAYUM...wait! If we don't drill for it, would it get here faster than that?Thilly thtuff!

[Scott D]

I gotta call BS on this one, and frankly I'm real tired of hearing it too! IF we truely opened up ANWR today, and untied the hands of the producers, them hillbillys would have us some oil flowing in a matter of months.

Even if it would take years, how many more years do we use sit around and use the "it would take years" excuse?

what about the fact that old wells that were capped off in the 80s are being uncapped in California as we speak. Even there, they are saying it would be years before those wells would be running at full capacity.

[bluedogok]

what about the fact that old wells that were capped off in the 80s are being uncapped in California as we speak. Even there, they are saying it would be years before those wells would be running at full capacity.
There was an article in the news a couple of months ago saying that has been going on down here as well.

[Scott D]

and by 'they' I mean the guys uncapping the wells.