A Second Carter Term?

[Whet]

Here is an interesting read, particularly for those that may be too young to remember the failed Carter presidency and now believe Barry is the second coming (should be second term). Enjoy! :cool:

source (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13201)


Jimmy Carter’s Second TermBy Jeffrey Lord ([email protected]) Published 5/13/2008 12:07:55 AM

You have to admit it takes guts. Audacity, even.

Senator Barack Obama, the presumptive nominee of the Democrats, has in essence just defeated the heiress of the Clinton era by campaigning as the heir-apparent of the Carter era.

The question for the rest of the year is this: Are there enough voting Americans who survived the disastrous odyssey through the late 1970s that was led by blessedly now ex-president Jimmy Carter? While Ronald Reagan is rated in poll after poll by Americans as a great president, (most recently he rated second only to Lincoln), are there enough people who recall that Reagan's election came about because of Carter's...ahhh..."performance" in the Oval Office? And will they be able to make the Obama-Carter connection for younger voters hearing terms like "windfall profits tax" for the first time? More to the point, can Senator John McCain do this?

The greatest charade of the year thus far is the idea that something "new" is being said in this campaign. By anybody. To be bluntly accurate, the only thing new is that one of the final two candidates is black. It seems to escape some that in a country even as young as America, 55 presidential elections (2008 is the 56th) covers just about all the ground there is to cover in debating any given next four years in the life of the United States. Consider.

Since the 1788 election that produced (unopposed) George Washington as the first president, the agenda for presidential elections has been narrowed to one underlying issue: the role of government. Understood in that fashion, the following 220 years of American history can be read as if with Superman's X-ray vision. From slavery to abortion, the War of 1812 to the War in Iraq, from Lincoln's support for "internal improvements" to John McCain's disdain for congressional earmarks, the question at issue was the role of government. Whether dealing with the isolationism of Washington or Robert Taft or Ron Paul instead of the internationalism of Jefferson's chase after the Barbary pirates, Wilson's League of Nations or Ronald Reagan's determination to win the Cold War, the underlying question every time was the role of government.

This can be expressed in terms of its size (big or small), of its engagement with the world (the kind and quality of diplomacy) and its ability to protect American citizens (do we do it here or over there?). Yet always the issue is exactly the same. It is the underlying skeleton and vital organs of every question of policy facing the American people.

So too is it more than safe to say that America has seen every kind of candidate there is to be had in these 55 elections. Only the packaging is different in number 56, a truism of every previous election. Black this time for Obama, female for Hillary, there was Catholic for JFK. Short for Martin Van Buren, tall, skinny and hot tempered for Andrew Jackson. A failed haberdasher in Truman, a glossy movie actor in Reagan, a joke-cracking railroad lawyer in Lincoln and a school teacher in LBJ. A peanut farmer with Carter. Yet what each was saying both as candidate and president fell along one side or the other of the role of government argument. And as the string of American presidents and presidential campaigns gets longer, the newest candidates and the latest president have taken to looking backwards to select the presidential policies of admired predecessors

Which makes the audacity of the Obama campaign more than amusing -- and amazing -- to watch. Consciously or not, Obama has selected the philosophical template of the Carter administration, from defunding the military, fighting the "special interests" down to imposing the windfall profits tax on the rich. Well, as Justice Clarence Thomas might say: whoop-dee-damn-do! This is precisely the philosophy of Jimmy Carter, although Carter had the good sense not to campaign as the pacifist he really is in 1976, waiting until the moment his hand came off the bible for that.


IS IT POSSIBLE that America really wants to return to those depressing days of gas lines and leisure suits? Of malaise and shock over the aggressiveness of America's enemies? The days when the policies Obama is advocating raised unemployment rates, interest rates and inflation rates into the double digits? When America's enemies looked the President of the United States in the eye -- and found he really wanted to kiss them on the cheek?

After all of those 55 previous elections for president, with policy results seriously on record from George Washington to George W. Bush, it doesn't take much now to understand what doesn't work. The policy failures, not only of American presidents but world leaders in general, are all right out there to be seen.

Obama's windfall profits tax idea? A Jimmy Carter biggie. "Unless we tax the oil companies, they will reap huge and undeserved windfall profits," fumed Carter on national television in 1980. The New York Times agreed, warning darkly that "legislators who sit by idly while oil profits soar will have to answer to the voters." With Democrats controlling Congress they got their way. As if on cue, oil production -- fell. To the tune of 1.6 billion fewer barrels. America's dependence on foreign oil rose. Eventually even the Times was agreeing the tax had to be repealed, and by 1988 Reagan, who campaigned against it, signed the repeal (by a Democrat Congress no less) into law. And Obama wants to do this all over again? Yes. It's not only not a new idea, it's not a better idea. Yet in terms of Obama, most tellingly it was a Carter idea.

Another Carter favorite was to appear to attack the wealthy, going after "rich businessmen" who enjoyed themselves with the "$50 martini lunch." Elected, Carter went after the martini business lunch tax deduction all right, but then quickly turned on the middle class with a Social Security payroll tax. Obama is already well on board with Carteresque rhetoric about "tax cuts for the wealthy." What taxes will a President Obama raise that, as with Carter, can't be discussed as a candidate?

Appeasement and the notion that we can look evil in the eye and smile? Another Carter favorite (captured forever with the image of the American president kissing Brezhnev on the cheek at a Moscow summit in 1979) that more famously was the notion underpinning British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's desperate face-to-face sitdowns with Adolph Hitler. Didn't work either time, nor will it ever work as Obama seems to be seriously proposing with Iran. Why? Because bullies are bullies -- be they Russian Communists, German dictators or Iranian mullahs. Senator John McCain succinctly sums up Obama's take as a lack of both judgment and experience, which surely is true.


BUT OBAMA'S VIEWS are also something else. They are the product of a world view that has been around for centuries -- failing every time it's tried. Obama's campaign website says Obama "will take several steps down the long road toward eliminating nuclear weapons. He will stop the development of new nuclear weapons; work with Russia to take U.S. and Russian ballistic missiles off hair trigger alert; seek dramatic reductions in U.S. and Russian stockpiles of nuclear weapons and material; and set a goal to expand the U.S.-Russian ban on intermediate- range missiles so that the agreement is global." He also pledges to stop the research and deployment of a missile defense, the same system that Reagan created to end the Cold War.

America was led down this philosophical garden path most recently by Carter. Whether advocated by Carter in 1979, Chamberlain in 1939 or a President Obama in 2009, the philosophy behind this idea has simply never worked. Period. Yet , to borrow from Reagan's line in his debate with Carter, here we go again.

With all of the sweep of American history to look back on, with virtual libraries of history recording what works and what doesn't when running the American government, Obama has stunningly selected the Carter policies as his role model.

Tax cuts? Not for Obama. Military superiority? No, not for Obama. Do tax cuts work? Yes, as shown by Presidents Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan and Bush 43. Military strength? Yes, decisively too. From Lincoln's Union Army to Teddy Roosevelt's Great White Fleet and his maxim to "talk softly and carry a big stick," from Wilson's Allied Expeditionary Force to FDR's vow to victory "so help us God" to Ronald Reagan's peace through strength, the idea of overwhelming military superiority works -- if the enemy believes you will use it. Or you actually use it.

But Obama, as with Carter, is having none of these approaches. From hiking Social Security payroll taxes to investing 20 percent less in defense budgets to telling Americans they had an "inordinate" fear of Communism, step by step Carter's policy selections and his decisions on the role of government led the American people down a dark and dangerous path that produced the worst economy since the Great Depression along with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and a beachhead in Central America with the Communist take-over of Nicaragua. When his policy towards Iran resulted in abandoning the Shah in favor of the extremist mullahs and the taking of American hostages, Carter's military was in such bad shape that American soldiers died in the Iranian desert during a miserably failed rescue attempt.


PERHAPS MORE ASTONISHING than his advocacy of a return to Carterism, Obama channels the Republican president to whom Carter was frequently compared -- Herbert Hoover. Obama is completely on board with protectionism, seemingly oblivious to the lessons of the Smoot-Hawley tariff that was a product of the Hoover administration in 1930. Upping the tariff on some 20,000 goods it is famous forever as the disastrous idea that deepened the severity of the Great Depression.

One has to wonder about the survival prospects down the road for the Democrats. They either can't get elected because their ideas are so bad -- extremist or tried and true failures -- or every once in a good while the latest crowd of American voters actually forgets their history (or never learned it in the first place) and gives a Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton a go at holding the reins. Enemies are then appeased, taxes raised, and judges go wild -- which in turn creates a new generation of conservatives who begin to understand why the last generation voted Republican.

The question for Senator McCain, accused by Obama of wanting to serve George W. Bush's third term, is whether he will hold Obama's feet to the fire on Obama's apparently passionate desire to serve Jimmy Carter's second.

[Harry Beanbag]

:pop:

[mdklatt]

It's okay to just post a link, or at least restrict your quoting to the highlights.

[Whet]

It's all highlights!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Hopefully, the abyssmal slide will only last 4 years, and no major catastrophe happens during that time, to put the economy into total seizure. Work hard this year. Make as much $ as you can, while things are still happening.

[Curly Bill]

Hopefully, the abyssmal slide will only last 4 years, and no major catastrophe happens during that time, to put the economy into total seizure. Work hard this year. Make as much $ as you can, while things are still happening.

Awwww.. come on now, a McCain presidency won't be that bad. ;)

[85Sooner]

Hopefully, the abyssmal slide will only last 4 years, and no major catastrophe happens during that time, to put the economy into total seizure. Work hard this year. Make as much $ as you can, while things are still happening.

Which is why I am voting NON OF THE ABOVE.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Awwww.. come on now, a McCain presidency won't be that bad. ;)He keeps sounding more like a democrat with every speech he makes, and the media hasn't even gotten warmed up on his demise, yet. Dude's toast.

[Curly Bill]

He keeps sounding more like a democrat with every speech he makes, and the media hasn't even gotten warmed up on his demise, yet. Dude's toast.

I know he's not the most conservative of politicians, but he's preferable to one of the socialist candidates, which Obama appears to be the choice, and I don't think Obama can win. Keep in mind we've only just begun to look into his closet for skeletons -- I think there's more to be found out.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I know he's not the most conservative of politicians, but he's preferable to one of the socialist candidates, which Obama appears to be the choice, and I don't think Obama can win. Keep in mind we've only just begun to look into his closet for skeletons -- I think there's more to be found out.It's up to Hillry. McCain has openly stated he will run a nice-guy campaign against democrats. Remember also the MSM hasn't begun their focus on McCain, yet.
On a very related subject, from another message board: "If not so true, this would be just absolutely hilarious! The Democrats have the most UN-Democratic system ever known to exist in the free world. They set up "Super Delegates" to overide the will of the people, just in case they're too stupid to do what they(the elitists) want. Obama gets beat (even trounced) in most every election over the past 3 months and yet they still try to prop up his derailed campaign. If I were a Democrat, I'd be furious as to how the Super Delegates are going against their constituency from states that have overwhelmingly supported a different candidate. This could be a story from Communist Russia back in the '60's."

[Curly Bill]

If I were a Democrat I'd be upset that they largely jumped on the Obama train only to find out later, after he's pretty much sewed up the nomination, that he's a very flawed candidate. Hillary is of course pretty flawed as a candidate herself. Also If I were a Demo I'd be asking myself how in an election where the Republicans are in such a weak position how Obama and Hillary are the best they could come up with.

Gotta love those Dems -- snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

[Animal Mother]

An article about Jimmy Carter written by a former Reagan aide.
Whoopty-f**king-do. As soon as I saw it I knew what Lord's rant would contain. Ronnie Ray-Gun. He and stick woman were just as dysfunctional as the last White House crew before them and after them. If I hear one more time that he and not the people under Communist rule brought about it's demise I'll puke up my shoes.Propaganda.

[OklahomaTuba]

Terrorist Groups & radicals around the world jumping on the Obama Bandwagon for that very reason.

[Curly Bill]

An article about Jimmy Carter written by a former Reagan aide.
Whoopty-f**king-do. As soon as I saw it I knew what Lord's rant would contain. Ronnie Ray-Gun. He and stick woman were just as dysfunctional as the last White House crew before them and after them. If I hear one more time that he and not the people under Communist rule brought about it's demise I'll puke up my shoes.Propaganda.

Do you promise?

[OklahomaTuba]

If I hear one more time that he and not the people under Communist rule brought about it's demise I'll puke up my shoes.Propaganda.

Well, there you have it. Liberals really do hate facts and history. :D

[Animal Mother]

Do you promise?

Yes. If you'll take a dump in Oklahoma Tuba's tuba. I'd ask some of the reactionary thinkers on this board their age but it would make it worse.

[Animal Mother]

Well, there you have it. Liberals really do hate facts and history. :D

Better than hating yourself and that appears to be your first problem. Second would be a condescending attitude towards people that think differently than you. Third would be that sig, but you and I discussed that previously.

[OklahomaTuba]

Better than hating yourself and that appears to be your first problem. Second would be a condescending attitude towards people that think differently than you.

How ironic, coming from someone who says they want to vomit apon hearing a historical fact which they themselves consider to be nothing more than a different point of view.

[Curly Bill]

I just want to know Tuba: do you hate yourself? :rolleyes:

[Animal Mother]

How ironic, coming from someone who says they want to vomit apon hearing a historical fact which they themselves consider to be nothing more than a different point of view.

I didn't think you would understand anything if it wasn't snotty and/or condescending.

[Animal Mother]

I just want to know Tuba: do you hate yourself? :rolleyes:

Did Nancy's "Just say no to drugs" policy work?

[Curly Bill]

I think it's the psycho-liberal palaver that's going misunderstood here.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wait, try socialism OUR way. We haven't done it, yet, and under us, it will finally succeed. We will produce a robust economy by fairness, and all will be treated justly. Utopia under US.

[Curly Bill]

Did Nancy's "Just say no to drugs" policy work?

You might be proof that it in fact did not.

[Animal Mother]

I think it the psycho-liberal palaver that's going misunderstood here.

I think you and Tuba like to dish it out but you don't like it in return. Like some of the "Maudes" that always call people ghey when you get their goat or just make a wiser crack then they did. Find a dictionary and learn some new vocabulary on your own not from talk radio.

[Curly Bill]

I think you and Tuba like to dish it out but you don't like it in return. Like some of the "Maudes" that always call people ghey when you get their goat or just make a wiser crack then they did. Find a dictionary and learn some new vocabulary on your own not from talk radio.

Actually I have the Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictinary right here in front of me. Nice try though.

[Animal Mother]

You might be proof that it in fact did not.

You might be proof that humans and animals shouldn't mate.

[Curly Bill]

You might be proof that humans and animals shouldn't mate.

Ahhh, did you get your little feelers hurt?

...and now you're striking out.

[Animal Mother]

Actually I have the Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictinary right here in front of me. Nice try though.

It doesn't count when your using it to prop yourself up to get a better view of your monitor over your pile of "National Reviews".

[Animal Mother]

Ahhh, did you get your little feelers hurt?

...and now you're striking out.

Factory seconds such as you and tuba only make me laugh. It's fun watching the same old diatribes drool out of someone's face for the thirty third time.

[C&CDean]

I ain't reading the article/rant, but I will say this:

I went in the military under Ford, and got out under Carter. It was the very worst of times to be in the military. ****-poor morale, giant cluster****, low pay, WWII equipment, WWII C-Rations, WWII barracks, etc. Gas lines, signs on every light switch to "shut if off", nothing but doom and gloom. I was in Panama when Carter was fixin' to give the canal back and it was hell.

We were the laughing stock of the world in terms of military power. ****ants like the Ayatollah were kicking sand in Carter's face and he was smiling that big ol' Mr. Peanut grin while America was getting drug over the rails.

Things changed..... a lot when President Reagan went in. Starting on his inauguration day. I don't know if anybody remembers, but the hostages in Iran were released either on that day, or one of the days before after Reagan said "release them, or else." Military pay went up. New equipment was purchased. Morale went up. Numbers went up. America rose up. The iron curtain went down.

If anybody on this board is stupid enough to think that the fall of Russia had nothing to do with Reagan and Bush I, then I pity the ignorant fool.

[Curly Bill]

It doesn't count when your using it to prop yourself up to get a better view of your monitor over your pile of "National Reviews".

Actually I don't like National Review that much, it's a little staid for my taste.

[Curly Bill]

Reagan made it to where you could be proud to be an American again, something that was somewhat lacking during the Carter presidency. That must be why animal mother has a problem with Ronnie -- that whole pride in country thing.

[OklahomaRed]

You might be proof that humans and animals shouldn't mate.

One thing I've noticed on this board is that the very individuals who state that conservatives are unable to hold an intelligent conversation are always the first ones to start throwing around names, snide remarks, and resorting to generalities verus specifics regarding the issues.

I was still in High School during the Carter error, but I do remember gas lines, high inflation, high unemployment, and getting embarrassed by Iran. Not speculation, just fact. Reagan comes into office and the hostages are released and the iron curtain falls. Coincidence? :confused:

[Animal Mother]

Actually I don't like National Review that much, it's a little staid for my taste.

Our neighbor gives us his copies but our birds won't crap on it.

If anyone thinks I give Reagan zero credit for what happened in Eastern Europe, they're wrong. I'm saying the people did much to free themselves and aren't given enough credit for it. I agree with Dean about the military under Reagan compared to Carter because it sounds like we're the same age. I'll never forget hearing on Night Line that the helicopter mission failed under Carter's watch. That was right out of Hogan's Heroes but we were the goofballs screwing things up not the Iranians. I know those dudes tried their damndest but the whole mission seems like it was poorly planned and that gets hung in the azz of the people in charge not the guys in the sh!t.

[Animal Mother]

One thing I've noticed on this board is that the very individuals who state that conservatives are unable to hold an intelligent conversation are always the first ones to start throwing around names, snide remarks, and resorting to generalities verus specifics regarding the issues.

I was still in High School during the Carter error, but I do remember gas lines, high inflation, high unemployment, and getting embarrassed by Iran. Not speculation, just fact. Reagan comes into office and the hostages are released and the iron curtain falls. Coincidence? :confused:

Really Sparky? I can be called a druggie and that's not a bad thing? The "just say no" was a joke I threw out because Tuba wasn't answering. It's unfortunate that some are too slow to get it or would rather knee jerk some hidden meaning into it instead of laughing. Same with the other remarks. Isn't all this a little internet jousting? If you think this is rough coming from me, trust me it isn't.

[SoonerProphet]

Karol Wojtyla, Adam Michnik, Lech Walesa, Vaclev Havel, the ghosts of Imre Nagy.

[C&CDean]

Really Sparky? I can be called a druggie and that's not a bad thing? The "just say no" was a joke I threw out because Tuba wasn't answering. It's unfortunate that some are too slow to get it or would rather knee jerk some hidden meaning into it instead of laughing. Same with the other remarks. Isn't all this a little internet jousting? If you think this is rough coming from me, trust me it isn't.

Dude, I'm pretty sure Red's remarks weren't about the Nancy thing. You've tossed enough other remarks around with commentary about how stupid/unlearned/ridiculous conservatives are to float a ship. And I've done the same thing about liberals. The difference is you don't see me going on and on about "intelligent discussion" and how the liberals just resort to name calling when they get their asses handed to them by a conservative in a little innerweb joust.

[C&CDean]

Karol Wojtyla, Adam Michnik, Lech Walesa, Vaclev Havel, the ghosts of Imre Nagy.

Tell me, why were these people allowed to rise to prominence? Why were these people old and tired by the time anybody knew their names? That's right, because until Reagan and company came along they were crushed under the boot. These people are heroes, but the only reason we know about them is because they were finally freed up to be heroes.

[Mjcpr]

I was still in High School during the Carter error, but I do remember gas lines, high inflation, high unemployment, and getting embarrassed by Iran.

I wonder what that was like?

[OklahomaRed]

Socialists programs do not work. The second people figure out that all they have to do is elect socialists to tax the rich (which always ends up trickling down to the middle class) to establish programs for themselves such as free food, free rent, free healthcare, etc. then what becomes the incentive to work? If I can get all this stuff and be guaranteed a nice soft spot to sleep, free healthcare and be guaranteed I won't go hungry? What the heck? Why work? I hate getting up every morning anyway? Where do I sign up? Rich man trying to keep me down anyway. Once the number of individuals on the "take" outnumber the number of individuals contributing we are going to end up 2nd world, or even eventually a 3rd world country.

What ever happened to the philosphy that you work hard, you take chances, and you bust your butt and you get rewarded. Those that don't work - don't eat? However, you start taking more than 50% of what I make in taxes and I think I might just take a vacation. Add it up: Federal income tax, social security tax, sales tax, gas tax, state income tax, property tax, inheritence tax, tax on profit for making a good investment and selling said investment (after you had already paid taxes on the money used to purchase said investment), hospital tax, school tax, city tax, etc., etc. etc.

How much taxes do you think you actually pay? And then you want to elect a Democrat who is going to raise your taxes to pay for more programs. Sure Republicans favor the rich; however, a vast majority of the jobs we work in are created by corporations. If we tax them too much in a one world economy, then they will just move those jobs somewhere else. Why do you think that the best dollar right now for investing is in foreign markets?

[C&CDean]

I wonder what that was like?

You weren't even dripping down the mail man's leg when Carter was in office Pat.

[SoonerProphet]

Tell me, why were these people allowed to rise to prominence? Why were these people old and tired by the time anybody knew their names? That's right, because until Reagan and company came along they were crushed under the boot. These people are heroes, but the only reason we know about them is because they were finally freed up to be heroes.


Uh yeah, your European history is about as solid as your mideast history. Google Helsinki Accords.

[C&CDean]

Uh yeah, your European history is about as solid as your mideast history. Google Helsinki Accords.

Why?

I lived during the time we're talking about. You?

[OklahomaRed]

I wonder what that was like?

It was like, crap, where am I going to get a job? Am I going to get drafted and have to go to Vietnam? Watching the hostages paroled around in front of the media while Americans watched, and then watching our botched rescue attempt made me wonder where we were headed as a nation? What was it like for you?

[Animal Mother]

Dude, I'm pretty sure Red's remarks weren't about the Nancy thing. You've tossed enough other remarks around with commentary about how stupid/unlearned/ridiculous conservatives are to float a ship. And I've done the same thing about liberals. The difference is you don't see me going on and on about "intelligent discussion" and how the liberals just resort to name calling when they get their asses handed to them by a conservative in a little innerweb joust.

Well Red, was it? I was responding to the "throwing names around" line.

I'll bet if we looked long enough we could find you saying pretty much the same thing somewhere Dean. Like calling someone ghey when you disagree with them. If these p*ssing contests are just that, tit for tat, what's the problem? Someone wants to get the last word and sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Liberal or conservative people don't like it when someone stands their ground in an intelligent fashion or an
unintelligent fashion.

[Mjcpr]

You weren't even dripping down the mail man's leg when Carter was in office Pat.

I was 7 when he was elected. :D


It was like, crap, where am I going to get a job? Am I going to get drafted and have to go to Vietnam? Watching the hostages paroled around in front of the media while Americans watched, and then watching our botched rescue attempt made me wonder where we were headed as a nation? What was it like for you?

My point was that it ain't that different than what we're going through right now.

[C&CDean]

My point was that it ain't that different than what we're going through right now.

Are you ****ing kidding me? You really do watch way too much CNN.

[Animal Mother]

Reagan made it to where you could be proud to be an American again, something that was somewhat lacking during the Carter presidency. That must be why animal mother has a problem with Ronnie -- that whole pride in country thing.

Oklahoma Red. You better slap Curly Q around. He's acting like a liberal and making snide remarks and generalizations.

[OklahomaRed]

Inflation was around 14% in the Carter presidency. Don't quote me on that, but I was actually in debate at the time and this was a hot debate topic. Unemployment was through the roof. The numbers we have today are no where near those numbers.

I hate our high gas prices, and they are directly contributing to high food prices, and high commodity prices. However, a big piece of this can be blamed on socialists (green) programs that have kept the U.S. from building new refineries, developing and drilling domestic supplies, and building more nuclear powerplants. Now we are 8 to 10 years behind the curve and unless some politicians get off their butts and do something about it, it's only going to get worse.

Above quote from Curly Bill? I can see where he is making an assumption; however, he didn't call you Sparky or question whether or not you had been breeding with another species? :D

[Animal Mother]

Inflation was around 14% in the Carter presidency. Don't quote me on that, but I was actually in debate at the time and this was a hot debate topic. Unemployment was through the roof. The numbers we have today are no where near those numbers.

I hate our high gas prices, and they are directly contributing to high food prices, and high commodity prices. However, a big piece of this can be blamed on socialists (green) programs that have kept the U.S. from building new refineries, developing and drilling domestic supplies, and building more nuclear powerplants. Now we are 8 to 10 years behind the curve and unless some politicians get off their butts and do something about it, it's only going to get worse.

Above quote from Curly Bill? I can see where he is making an assumption; however, he didn't call you Sparky or question whether or not you had been breeding with another species? :D


Unemployment was two points higher in 1980 (7.2 vs 5.1 2008)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

Inflation 1980 13.5
2007 2.58

I work in the energy business and not being able to build new refineries is killing us. So is the weak dollar and people still driving 20 over the speed limit while driving tanks for status not necessity.

I didn’t say Curly was under the influence of illegal drugs when he tried to mount that otter !!!!!! I didn't say he liked it either!!

[OklahomaRed]

If the intent is to get us out of our Suburbans, I'm almost there. Suburban is paid off for two years now, and I am still doing the math to see where the point is that I can at least break even on car payment versus dollar value of gas I would save. It's getting there pretty frickin' fast. Bad thing is I have three kids and they don't fit in a Prius very well. Around town, sure, but on a family trip? I'd be down one kid by the time we got there? :D

[C&CDean]

Well Red, was it? I was responding to the "throwing names around" line.

I'll bet if we looked long enough we could find you saying pretty much the same thing somewhere Dean. Like calling someone ghey when you disagree with them. If these p*ssing contests are just that, tit for tat, what's the problem? Someone wants to get the last word and sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Liberal or conservative people don't like it when someone stands their ground in an intelligent fashion or an
unintelligent fashion.

Oh it's all good. Just don't try and disguise the feces-slinging we do around here as "intelligent discussion." Most of the people.....well some of the people....well a couple of the people who post here are very damn smart. We just don't see things eye-to-eye. Me? If it barks like a dog, and ****s like a dog, and wags it's tail like a dog - then I call it a dog. The truth works for me.

[Animal Mother]

Oh it's all good. Just don't try and disguise the feces-slinging we do around here as "intelligent discussion." Most of the people.....well some of the people....well a couple of the people who post here are very damn smart. We just don't see things eye-to-eye. Me? If it barks like a dog, and ****s like a dog, and wags it's tail like a dog - then I call it a dog. The truth works for me.

Intelligence and the truth have much in common. Both can be well disguised.

[C&CDean]

Intelligence and the truth have much in common. Both can be well disguised.

Indeed...

[Animal Mother]

If the intent is to get us out of our Suburbans, I'm almost there. Suburban is paid off for two years now, and I am still doing the math to see where the point is that I can at least break even on car payment versus dollar value of gas I would save. It's getting there pretty frickin' fast. Bad thing is I have three kids and they don't fit in a Prius very well. Around town, sure, but on a family trip? I'd be down one kid by the time we got there? :D


I got rid of my Jeep Cherokee five years ago but we don’t have any kids. Having to haul kids to school and events is a legitimate reason to own a SUV. Does any car company make a station wagon anymore?

[C&CDean]

I got rid of my Jeep Cherokee five years ago but we don’t have any kids. Having to haul kids to school and events is a legitimate reason to own a SUV. Does any car company make a station wagon anymore?

Yeah, but there's nothing gayer than a Ford Focus wagon.

[Animal Mother]

Yeah, but there's nothing gayer than a Ford Focus wagon.

I saw one of those. It was a fleet car for Roto-Rooter. Uh-oh!!

[SoonerProphet]

Why?

I lived during the time we're talking about. You?

Nice argument, as always I cannot compete with such word craft.

Read a book.

[NormanPride]

http://www.thetick.ws/images/thehumantonandhandy.jpg

Read a book!

[Whet]

Yep, reading a book will tell you what you lived throught, regardless of what you experienced!

Yep, olevet should read a book about Vietnam and Dean should read a book about living through the miserable Carter years!

Stephen King writes books, would that help?
Jimmy Carter wrote a book, would his help Dean understand?
Al Gore invented the book, would that help us understand his polluting zinc mine?

[SoonerProphet]

so, most of you folks lived in the "gray zone" of Prague, Budapest, and Warsaw? if you think people didn't stand up to stalinism prior to the glories of the purple clad ronaldus maximus you are more deluded than i have been led to believe.

[C&CDean]

so, most of you folks lived in the "gray zone" of Prague, Budapest, and Warsaw? if you think people didn't stand up to stalinism prior to the glories of the purple clad ronaldus maximus you are more deluded than i have been led to believe.

Oh for ****'s sake, climb down off your egghead horse. I've read the whole Harry Potter set at least 3 times through.:rolleyes:

Nobody here said that people weren't fighting communism/oppression/genocide/etc. over the years. Even the POS surrender monkey French had some seriously dedicated folks who made life miserable on the nazis. We're talking regime change here. We're talking nation crumbling/building.

And yes, the Soviet Union ultimately crumbled from within because communism/socialism NEVER ****ING WORKS. However, it took folks on our side with the brass to give it the final mercy stroke to the heart. Give credit where credit is due.

And don't always believe everything you read. I read somewhere that you evolved from an ape.

[soonerscuba]

Heh, two things. Outside of Prophet, this thread seems like it sucks. And B) How do people not realize that 75% of the Nazi Army was on the Eastern Front, yet we act like us and the British were the sole saviors of Europe? While I didn't actually fight on Normandy or Stalingrad, I thought I would point that out.

[C&CDean]

Heh, two things. Outside of Prophet, this thread seems like it sucks. And B) How do people not realize that 75% of the Nazi Army was on the Eastern Front, yet we act like us and the British were the sole saviors of Europe? While I didn't actually fight on Normandy or Stalingrad, I thought I would point that out.

Oh. So all of your wisdom has to come from a book to not suck? Gotcha.

And anybody who has studied WWII history knows about the Eastern Front. We just don't care that much. Afterall, Patton was ****ed that we didn't just keep heading that way after Berlin and finish the Russians off when we had a chance. Dude was ahead of his time.

[StoopTroup]

http://www.cars2go.us/wp-content/uploads/dodge-magnum-side-view.jpg
I got rid of my Jeep Cherokee five years ago but we don’t have any kids. Having to haul kids to school and events is a legitimate reason to own a SUV. Does any car company make a station wagon anymore?

[StoopTroup]

The Berlin Air Lift was a thing of beauty.

http://www.authentichistory.com/1950s/speeches/images/berlin_airlift_01.jpg

[StoopTroup]

Oh. So all of your wisdom has to come from a book to not suck? Gotcha.

And anybody who has studied WWII history knows about the Eastern Front. We just don't care that much. Afterall, Patton was ****ed that we didn't just keep heading that way after Berlin and finish the Russians off when we had a chance. Dude was ahead of his time.

Patton wanted some cheap beach front property in China.

[MR2-Sooner86]

How do people not realize that 75% of the Nazi Army was on the Eastern Front

78% but that's when there was no fighting on the Western Front. It dropped down to 68% after the Invasion of Normandy.

http://home.earthlink.net/~akarabal/WW2/WW2-east-west.htm


yet we act like us and the British were the sole saviors of Europe? While I didn't actually fight on Normandy or Stalingrad, I thought I would point that out.

Germany could have defeated Russia. Before invading Hitler wanted Japan to attack Russia from the East. If this would have happened then Russia moving its production out of Germany bomber range would have been useless. That and Russia would not have been able to pull back and mass their troups to fight back and concentrate on one front. Germany alone came close to defeating Russia and Japan would have finished it. Japan though did not want to as they were concerned with the United States and did not want to get into a war with Russia as it was not with their plans.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Speaking of Carter, here is a speech by future president Reagan, given shortly after Carter took office in 1977, which gives us insight into what a great president can inspire the nation to do: http://www.conservative.org/pressroom/reagan/reagan1977.asp

[Jerk]

My theory is this. Let's hope the liberals take complete control. They can have everything; the congress, the presidency, the courts. Let them pass their socialist agenda, their tax increases, their handouts, their regulations, their other bull****. Give up everything except gun rights. They are so incompetent that they will run the country into the ground, and then maybe people we'll finally wake up.

My dream is to wake up someday and see only two political parties. Republicans and Libertarians.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It doesn't take long, apparently, for the nation to forget the stress and chaos brought on by such pathetic leadership as the Carter administration, complemented by a democrat congress. Of course, it doesn't help that the mainstream media, and apparently the public schools, have anti-conservatism as their agenda, and do more than their part to glamorize and foster liberal ideas and their Party.

[Mjcpr]

Essentially, the whole world is out to get you.

[Jerk]

Essentially, the whole world is out to get you.

Yes, this is why I own many boomsticks.

[Whet]

All Hail the Savior, George Soros! He may accomplish his goal of taking over our country! One world order!

[tommieharris91]

It doesn't take long, apparently, for the nation to forget the stress and chaos brought on by such pathetic leadership as the Carter administration, complemented by a democrat congress. Of course, it doesn't help that the mainstream media, and apparently the public schools, have anti-conservatism as their agenda, and do more than their part to glamorize and foster liberal ideas and their Party.

http://www.ilovebonnie.net/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[Harry Beanbag]

And B) How do people not realize that 75% of the Nazi Army was on the Eastern Front, yet we act like us and the British were the sole saviors of Europe? While I didn't actually fight on Normandy or Stalingrad, I thought I would point that out.


I'm still wondering what this has to do with the thread. :confused:

[sooneron]

I got rid of my Jeep Cherokee five years ago but we don’t have any kids. Having to haul kids to school and events is a legitimate reason to own a SUV.

NO it's not. Everytime I hear my neighbor talking about taking their two kids somewhere and all their "gear" they need, I just :rolleyes: . I have never seen anyone in my hood load more than a duffel bag and a cooler for a day of soccer games. Yeah, driving a polluting guzzler is worth it for the three or so long trips people take a year. Three is being generous, btw. Heck, if you buy a smaller car than say, a suburban, you can do this thing called "rent a vehicle" when you take a trip if you need more room, that 1k you save in car payments a year would finance the rental. Not to mention, the $ you save in gas. Plus, you aren't putting miles on your car! You'd save nearly a grand a year in gas just by going from an Explorer to a Honda Minivan. Yeah, I'm sure you need 4WD in OK.
People need to quit making excuses.

[Harry Beanbag]

People also need to stop telling people how to live their lives.

[sooneron]

People also need to stop telling people how to live their lives.

I'm not telling anyone how to live, I'm saying that i'm sick of stupid excuses that make no sense.

[StoopTroup]

People also need to stop telling people how to live their lives.

You really should quit telling people to stop telling people how to live their lives. :D ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm not telling anyone how to live, I'm saying that i'm sick of stupid excuses that make no sense.


People are ignorant and/or stupid if they don't live as you think they should. Got it.

[sooneron]

Heck, if you buy a smaller car than say, a suburban, you can do this thing called "rent a vehicle" when you take a trip if you need more room, that 1k you save in car payments a year would finance the rental. Not to mention, the $ you save in gas. Plus, you aren't putting miles on your car! You'd save nearly a grand a year in gas just by going from an Explorer to a Honda Minivan. Yeah, I'm sure you need 4WD in OK.
People need to quit making excuses.

Once again, I'm sorry. Where do I tell people how to live their lives? Reading comp. is a bitch.

[sooneron]

People are ignorant and/or stupid if they don't live as you think they should. Got it.

Yay you! You put words in my mouth! Good jorb.
Maybe you're sort of self projecting as a result of a manifestation of guilt on your part by what you drive. I dunno, I'm no psychologist.

[Harry Beanbag]

You left out this part:


NO it's not. Everytime I hear my neighbor talking about taking their two kids somewhere and all their "gear" they need, I just :rolleyes: . I have never seen anyone in my hood load more than a duffel bag and a cooler for a day of soccer games. Yeah, driving a polluting guzzler is worth it for the three or so long trips people take a year. Three is being generous, btw.


I'm not telling anyone how to live, I'm saying that i'm sick of stupid excuses that make no sense.

[Harry Beanbag]

Yay you! You put words in my mouth! Good jorb.
Maybe you're sort of self projecting as a result of a manifestation of guilt on your part by what you drive. I dunno, I'm no psychologist.


That's funny that you say that and pathetic at the same time. No, I don't own an SUV, sold my Durango 3 years ago and bought an Accord. But this is America and I'll drive whatever I feel like.

[Whet]

So, you are saying that if Barry Obama is elected, he should institute Jimmy Carter inspired vehicle purchasing controls on folks that purchase larger cars/SUVs?

Maybe tax the purchases an additional 25% and maybe the prospective purchaser would be required to obtain approval from a newly created "Vehicle Determination Board," made up of an Earth Firster environmentalist, a PETA-ist, a Union Member, a welfare receipent, and a local Democrat party official?

[sooneron]

You left out this part:

let's see here. One is an observation and the rest of the first quote is pretty much the deduction that comes from said observation.

the second quote speaks to the part of the excuse that I hear that, due to the observation, seems bunk.

Yet, there is still no name calling directed at people that I am calling bull**** upon. Better yet, there is a solution offered to said people bitching about gas etc.

[Whet]

Harry - in your own best interest, we should have a governmental agency decide what you do or don't need! :D

I don't know if the Board would approve of you purchasing another Accord - is it union made?

Is a crossover considered an SUV?

Or, would that be a determination made by the Vehicle Determination Board?

[sooneron]

That's funny that you say that and pathetic at the same time. No, I don't own an SUV, sold my Durango 3 years ago and bought an Accord. But this is America and I'll drive whatever I feel like.

I never said you couldn't (you really like putting words in my mouth, don't you?), drive what you want just don't try to give me some bull**** "I need this hummer for baseball practices" excuse.

[sooneron]

So, you are saying that if Barry Obama is elected, he should institute Jimmy Carter inspired vehicle purchasing controls on folks that purchase larger cars/SUVs?

Maybe tax the purchases an additional 25% and maybe the prospective purchaser would be required to obtain approval from a newly created "Vehicle Determination Board," made up of an Earth Firster environmentalist, a PETA-ist, a Union Member, a welfare receipent, and a local Democrat party official?

Actually, I'm more for incentives the other way. Nice try with your cute little
'jump to conclusions mat" diatribe there.

[Harry Beanbag]

I never said you couldn't (you really like putting words in my mouth, don't you?), drive what you want just don't try to give me some bull**** "I need this hummer for baseball practices" excuse.


Nobody needs a Hummer, I agree that they are ridiculous.

Are you asking these people why they feel they need the vehicles in question? If so, why? What gives you the right to do that? Maybe they're just too nice to tell you they have a Hummer just because they wanted one. That really is all the reason they need...for now.

[sooneron]

Nobody needs a Hummer, I agree that they are ridiculous.

Are you asking these people why they feel they need the vehicles in question? If so, why? What gives you the right to do that? Maybe they're just too nice to tell you they have a Hummer just because they wanted one. That really is all the reason they need...for now.

No, we were talking about gas after driving around looking for a golf course one day. I brought up the fact that I was considering a hybrid and was tired of the poor mileage I was getting (20-24) in my car. The conversation turned to his wife's Explorer (which are much larger than they used to be) and the crappy mileage it got - 16 mpg. That's when he threw out the "need" line.