Go in, go in Burma NOW!

[Chuck Bao]

What good is the UN or ASEAN if it can’t help our brothers and sisters in need?

What’s worse than a government more concerned about its control and sovereignty than the suffering of its people?

Why are there only three people in Burma qualified to approve visas for relief workers?

Nargis cyclone deaths may exceed 100,000?

I want to give money for relief effort, but I don’t want my money to go into the pockets of those fascist military dictators safely embedded in their new fake capital city of Naypyidaw.

Go in, take control of the Rangoon airport and start helping people. Don’t wait for approval. There is no two sides to this issue.

There is the immediate need for humanitarian aid. I can’t imagine that there would be any fighting or resistance against a takeover of the airport and the arrival relief workers.

I wouldn’t discount the possibly of a military coup. Sadly, that’s probably the best we can hope for.

Go in now and help stop some of the suffering.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/08/regional/regional_30072540.php


Burma cyclone deaths may exceed 100,000
By ninemsn.com.au

Burma's military government is under pressure to open its borders to more international help after a devastating cyclone that a US diplomat said may have killed more than 100,000 people.
Washington, a vocal critic of the junta that has ruled Burma for more than four decades, said humanitarian access should not be a political matter.

"What remains is for the Burmese government to allow the international community to help its people. It should be a simple matter. It is not a matter of politics," US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters in Washington.

John Holmes, the top UN humanitarian official, urged Burma to waive visa restrictions he said were slowing efforts to bring in relief experts and supplies to help an estimated one million people affected by Cyclone Nargis.

The cyclone, with 190km/h winds, slammed into coastal towns and villages in the rice-growing Irrawaddy delta south-west of Rangoon on Saturday. Witnesses reported villages destroyed and people fighting for survival by clutching trees.

Limited international aid has trickled in and the military junta's own aid operation has moved up a gear with some helicopter drops, but land convoys were nowhere to be seen, a Reuters witness in the delta said.

State radio and television reported a death toll of 22,980 with 42,119 missing and 1,383 injured in the world's most devastating cyclone since 1991.

Holmes said the death toll could rise "very significantly."

Shari Villarosa, charge d'affaires of the US embassy in Burma, said, "The information that we're receiving indicates that there may well be over 100,000 deaths in the delta area."

That figure was not confirmed, but was based on estimates by an international non-governmental organisation that she declined to identify, Villarosa told reporters on a conference call from Rangoon.

She said recent Burma government estimates put the death toll at 70,000, mainly in the delta area.

In one town alone, Bogalay, at least 10,000 people were killed, according to a town-by-town list of casualties and damage announced by the reclusive military government.

Political analysts and critics of 46 years of military rule said the cyclone may have long-term implications for the junta, which is even more feared and resented since September's bloody crackdown on Buddhist monk-led protests.

With the delta virtually cut off and frustration growing among aid agencies and governments, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner suggested invoking a UN "responsibility to protect" clause without waiting for the junta's approval.

Holmes, UN undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs, said that would be premature. "We are having useful and constructive discussions with the authorities of Myanmar (Burma)," he told reporters at the United Nations.

"It is moving in the right direction, we want it to move much faster clearly, but I'm not sure it would help at this moment at least to embark on what could at least be seen by some people as a confrontation."

Richard Horsey of the UN Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said in Bangkok that 5,000 square kilometres of the delta were under water.

"With all those dead mostly floating in the water at this point you can get some idea of the conditions facing the teams on the ground. It's a major logistical challenge," he said.

Storm surges hit when people were sleeping "and just inundated them, or swept them out to sea," Villarosa said. "The government officials told us 95 per cent of the buildings in the delta area are gone or have collapsed."

Thailand, China, India and Indonesia were flying in relief supplies and the UN World Food Program said it had sent four planes with aid that were expected to arrive on Friday.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged Burma do more to facilitate international aid.

Holmes said four Asian UN officials had been cleared to go as part of an initial assessment team but up to 100 UN staff were still waiting. He said they had not been refused visas, but the process was taking too long.

Twenty-four countries had pledged $US30 million ($A31.6 million) and more aid offers were expected after the UN sets out its priorities and target for aid in a flash appeal on Friday.

Australia will provide an initial $A3 million emergency assistance, bypassing Burma's military rulers to provide the funds directly to the United Nations and aid agencies.

The UN emergency relief will contribute at least $US10 million ($A10.5 million).

At Rangoon airport, a Reuters photographer on a Thai military plane said two Indian planes and one Chinese transport plane with tents and construction materials had also landed.

The United Nations recognised in 2005 the "responsibility to protect" civilians when their governments could or would not do it, even if this meant violating national sovereignty.

France's UN ambassador, Jean-Maurice Ripert, asked the Security Council to take a stand on the crisis by calling for a humanitarian briefing and issuing a statement.

Diplomats said China, Russia, Vietnam and South Africa were opposed, arguing it has nothing to do with peace and security.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/07/regional/regional_30072462.php


UN: No quick reply from Burma on visas for relief workers
New York - The government of Burma had not responded to a request to waive visa requirements for international relief workers waiting for permission to bring much needed aid to victims of Cyclone Nargis, the UN said Tuesday.

The UN had asked the government in Burma to waive visas for relief workers assembled in nearby Bangkok so they can begin their journey to Myanmar, said Rachid Khalikov, an official of the UN emergency relief department at UN headquarters in New York. But the Burmese embassy in Bangkok was closed on Monday for a Thai holiday.

"So far, there were no instructions for visas in Bangkok," Khalikov said.

In the past other countries have waived visa requirements to aid in relief efforts. For example, aid workers could provide emergency assistance to earthquake victims in Iran because that country waived visa requirements.

The devastating cyclone hit Burma over the weekend and the government there said more than 22,000 people have been killed and more than 40,000 people were missing. The government said more than 100,000 people needed urgent humanitarian assistance.

Khalikov said the UN headquarters in New York has had difficulties gathering information on conditions in Burma because of problems in communications with its staff in Burma. UN officials had met with Myanmar diplomats in New York to discuss urgent steps to assist the people in the impoverished south-east Asian nation, but they were also stymied by communication problems.

[Mjcpr]

Who should go in? Us?

Pffft, and **** off the other half of the world? Pass.

[olevetonahill]

Who should go in? Us?

Pffft, and **** off the other half of the world? Pass.

Hell Bro Most of the worlds ****ed at us anyway

[frankensooner]

We would never go in there, not enough oil!!! ;) just kidding folks.

Seriously folks, I have been following that situtation long before the cyclone hit. It is a huge mess and the poor people of that country are suffering.

[TUSooner]

On the way to work, I was thinking we could send in a small strike force, say the 82nd Airborne Chorus, to knock out the ruling generals and set up a "UN Relief Government"; then we'd split.

[Chuck Bao]

I was thinking about just taking over the control tower at the airport and start getting the planes landing and the relief crews and materials in.

But, I like your idea better, TUSooner.

Whatever, China would never allow either your plan or my plan.

[NormanPride]

Why don't China and India step up out there?

[Beef]

Why don't China and India step up out there?

'Cause China's too busy getting ready for the Olympics and India's too busy getting ready for nucular war w/ Pakistan. :gary:

[JohnnyMack]

Why don't China and India step up out there?

China is busying taking the Olympic flame to the top of Everest.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Wow. This is a bad week for cyclones - first Myanmar and now Burma.

[Chuck Bao]

Good question, NormanPride. I don’t know. India sent at least one ship loaded with relief supplies.

I would guess that China doesn’t want international relief organizations to by-pass the Burmese government and give aid directly, despite the obvious ineptness.

Since Burma is a member of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations), ASEAN should be the one negotiating with the Burmese military leaders and taking the lead in providing assistance.

But, that apparently isn’t happening. Relief supplies and workers are still sitting at the Bangkok airport and the Thai prime minister can’t even contact the Burmese leaders.

Get him on the next flight to Burma!

This is beyond sad.


BURMA DISASTER
Us begs thais to influence junta
By Supalak Ganjanakhundee
Piyanart Srivalo
The Nation
Published on May 9, 2008

Samak unable to contact country's leaders, may fly to Rangoon

The United States yesterday desperately sought Thailand's help to get into cyclone-ravaged Burma and deliver humanitarian assistance to millions of storm victims in the secretive country.

US Ambassador Eric John met Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to ask him to facilitate permission from Burmese leaders for the US emergency relief team to enter the country.

Samak gave some assurance that he and his government would work closely with the US to help Burma, John said.

However, Samak failed to get through to paramount leader Than Shwe and his deputy Muang Aye due to poor communications, government spokesman Wichianchot Sukchotrat said.

If contact cannot be made, Samak will fly to Burma soon to talk to the leader, the spokesman said.

John urged the junta leaders to make a quick decision to let the US disaster team, waiting in Bangkok, get in soon.

"A visa that we get today is worth a lot more lives than tomorrow and worth a lot of lives than the day after tomorrow," he told a press briefing.

"If today the visa is delayed, more and more people would be suffering significantly in Burma."

The US government is ready to provide assistance and through its Agency for International Development offered US$3.25 million (Bt104 million) initial assistance for the relief effort.

Burmese state media reported that the cyclone killed 22,980 persons and left 42,119 missing. The figures are unconfirmed and could rise.

"The high number of deaths and missing increases our concerns and our desire to provide assistance to those who need it now," John said.

Burma's leaders distrust Western countries and are reluctant to allow their personnel in the country.

John showed the media the team his government would send to Burma.

"These are humanitarian workers," he said. "They are ready to go in to help. They are not going in to overthrow the government. They are not going in to spy. They have specific skills for immediately responding to disaster. These are the faces and these are the people we want to send in to Burma."

He dismissed a report that the Thai Supreme Command managed to get landing permission from Burma for US C-130 military aircraft.

Bill Berger from USAid said Burmese leaders have nothing to fear from the C-130. Although it was a military aircraft, it would be loaded with only items for assistance.

[Chuck Bao]

Wow. This is a bad week for cyclones - first Myanmar and now Burma.

Heh! ;)

I refuse to call the country Myanmar because it is name created by an oppressive, paranoid and superstitious military regime.

Besides, the Bangkok Post and Nation have fully reverted back to calling the country Burma.

I don't even know what Myanmar means. I remember a taxi driver telling me one time that Myan means quickly and mothers call their children myan, myan, myan (come here quickly) and mar means to development. So, Myanmar means quickly develop. I think that taxi driver was just pulling my leg, as some taxi drivers like to play jokes on stupid foreigners.

[yermom]

i was trying to figure out the other day why i didn't know anything about Myanmar... not that i knew much about Burma...

[Chuck Bao]

I don't know much either, yermom, and I have visited the country 4-5 times over the last 20 years.

My favorite charity is donating money, medicine, clothes to the Burmese refugees on the Thai side of the border.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100924

Burma was one of the richest countries in Asia after WWII and should have become prosperous with its large population and natural resources.

Burma is a former British colony and the older Burmese speak excellent English.

It is one of the most fascinating countries to visit in the world if their government would actually open up, relax and restore democracy.

[Okla-homey]

Perhaps part of the problem is the UN d00d organizing the relief effort is an old porn star.

[Chuck Bao]

OMG! Even with the likes of you, homey, I can't believe you are ragging on relief and porn stars. For shame!!!

[stoopified]

TheU.S. is in a no-win situation.If we go in we are exploiters,if we do nothing we are SATAN.We tried to be peacemakers in Lebanon and were attacked.We tried humanitarian relief and to bring stability to Somalia and were attacked.We are being raked over the coals for trying to stabilze Iraq and for not intervening in the Sudan.No matter what we are wrong.

[Harry Beanbag]

There was a story on the news last night that we have a Navy strike force off the coast of Thailand that just happened to be training for humanitarian relief missions in case of a cyclone or tsunami in the region. They have a couple dozen helicopters and 1800 Marines ready to go in. They are on alert just waiting for permission to deliver the supplies they have on hand. Some would say it was a brilliant fortuitous coincidence, apparently the Burmese leaders would not.

[Chuck Bao]

TheU.S. is in a no-win situation.If we go in we are exploiters,if we do nothing we are SATAN.We tried to be peacemakers in Lebanon and were attacked.We tried humanitarian relief and to bring stability to Somalia and were attacked.We are being raked over the coals for trying to stabilze Iraq and for not intervening in the Sudan.No matter what we are wrong.

I'm not sure it is entirely appropriate to link those countries to the situation in Burma. I don't know if you've had a chance to meet some of the people of Burma, but it is hard for me to imagine a more gentle and peace loving people on this earth.

The opposition to the military government is led by Aung San Su Kyi whose National League for Democracy rightfully won the general election in 1990, but was scrapped by the military dictators. Aung San Su Kyi has been under house arrest since then.

Last year, some Buddhist monks decided to stop giving blessings to the military personnel and that started what was termed the "saffron relevolution", but it was brutally put down. Some Buddhist monks had to dress as laymen and walk hundreds of miles to Thailand to escape with their lives.

How much of a bad guy can you be if you are going after Buddhist monks. That is unless you are China and hosting the Olympics.

Some day, Burma will be free and I hope that many will get a chance to see for themselves the beauty of these people and their country.

[shaun4411]

Supalak Ganjanakhundee. now THAT is a name.

[Chuck Bao]

There was a story on the news last night that we have a Navy strike force off the coast of Thailand that just happened to be training for humanitarian relief missions in case of a cyclone or tsunami in the region. They have a couple dozen helicopters and 1800 Marines ready to go in. They are on alert just waiting for permission to deliver the supplies they have on hand. Some would say it was a brilliant fortuitous coincidence, apparently the Burmese leaders would not.

There was an article from this Western guy who got into Burma shortly after the public uprising last year. I can't find the article about his visit to the new capital city of Naypyidaw. It was very interesting.

He claims that the military is upfront about one of the reasons to move the capital so far inland - the military was so afraid of missle attack from US warships. That's pretty ridiculous, but I don't doubt that it is true.

It may even explain why the military is holed up in their new capital city.

[Chuck Bao]

Supalak Ganjanakhundee. now THAT is a name.

That is a most excellent Thai name. I don't know exactly what it means, but the khundee part of the last name means: "good guy".

[Okla-homey]

Look, I'm all for flying over and airdropping (not airlanding) a few thousand tons of MRE's and potable water, but beyond that...well, lets just say China could spend a billion or two less on the flippin' Olympics (which I don't give two hoots about thankyouverymuch), relieve a great deal if not all the suffering, and at the same time make a tremendous leap forward in the world's opinion of them.

But, they're Chinese, and they won't.

Somalia started out as a humanitarian mission. If we've learned anything in the last fifteen years, we should have learned we should NOT attempt humanitarian missions when the local gubmint doesn't ask for the help or opposes our presence.

[ric311]

He claims that the military is upfront about one of the reasons to move the capital so far inland - the military was so afraid of missle attack from US warships. That's pretty ridiculous, but I don't doubt that it is true.


That may be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. A tomahawk can travel upwards of a couple hundred miles from what I've gathered.

[Okla-homey]

That may be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. A tomahawk can travel upwards of a couple hundred miles from what I've gathered.

I agree. The Myanmaris are pretty moronic. SLCMs can cover up to a 1000 miles in pinch. That's like DC to St Louis.

[Chuck Bao]

That may be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. A tomahawk can travel upwards of a couple hundred miles from what I've gathered.

Exactly. I will try to find that article.

[Chuck Bao]

Before I do, I want to stress that logic and common sense may not necessarily apply. I mean what type of government issues currency notes in denominations of 35 and 70 because 7 is the lucky number of the head cheese?

Your brain may be more profficient at counting in multiples of 35 and 70, but it taxes my brain too much and since, at that time, it took 140 of them to make a dollar it was just too much and I'd just hand over a wad of the stuff and hope to get some back in return.

[Harry Beanbag]

Somalia started out as a humanitarian mission. If we've learned anything in the last fifteen years, we should have learned we should NOT attempt humanitarian missions when the local gubmint doesn't ask for the help or opposes our presence.


Not that I disagree, but at least Burma has a gubmint right now, no matter how ****ed up it may be. Somalia was basically the wild west with AK-47's back then.

[Okla-homey]

Not that I disagree, but at least Burma has a gubmint right now, no matter how ****ed up it may be. Somalia was basically the wild west with AK-47's back then.

I hear ya bro...but ol' Joe Stalin taught the world nothing unifies a populace like the specter of an invader. Thus, the dingbats trying to run the place might just benefit by our uninvited presence.

here's some current scoop on Burma:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/bm.html

[Chuck Bao]

You have no idea. What I'm hearing is that the people are really, really disgusted that the military is not helping much in relieving the suffering of the people.

I'm hearing that it would have been a great chance to win the hearts of the people and the military dictactorship fumbled.

There would be nearly 100% support for international intervention.

[ric311]

For those of you who want to help, but are afraid that a US based organization won't be allowed to do anything, consider shelterbox.org. Shelterbox.org is a disaster relief arm of Rotary International. It was established to respond to exactly this kind of disaster. Because it's Rotary and not affiliated with any specific country, it has the ability to go places and do things that other relief organizations cannot.

http://shelterbox.org/

[Chuck Bao]

For those of you who want to help, but are afraid that a US based organization won't be allowed to do anything, consider shelterbox.org. Shelterbox.org is a disaster relief arm of Rotary International. It was established to respond to exactly this kind of disaster. Because it's Rotary and not affiliated with any specific country, it has the ability to go places and do things that other relief organizations cannot.

http://shelterbox.org/

That is an incredibly helpful thing you posted, ric311.

The key thing, though, is that the Burmese government insists that all aid must be given directly to them and they will distribute it. Many aid agencies, rightly so, insist that contributions go to a unified or verififiable source and reaches the people in need.

I think that is why so many planes of relief supplies and relief crews are sitting at the Bangkok airport.

If the planes and support staff get through, I would most certainly give money to shelterbox.

Thanks for that.

[Okla-homey]

A tremendous amount of aid perishes on docks and airport ramps (a/k/a rots) when the local gubmint lacks the infrastructure and/or wherewithall to distribute it. That said, if it makes you feel better, donate away.

[Chuck Bao]

I will not give money to the Burmese goverment and I think a lot of people feel that way. It is a great pity, but we'll see what happens.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Just sayin'

Screw the Burmese junta, go in, take them out and restore civil liberties and help the people. Can't understand why the world has tolerated the xenophobic junta this long. Love that fact, they beat up priests and people for protesting, but can't find a single gov't person helping out in the streets now there is total destruction.

GO in with aid, support and troops and tell the junta to stuff it.

[Chuck Bao]

HOOO YAAAHHH! I'm in for that.

And, I'm all in for telling China that it should mind it's own ****ing business or we are coming for Tibet next. bitches.

Oh yeah, Taiwan is its own country. Those people are all successful and doing pretty great on their own without having to get permission from their wanna be big bosses in Beijing. Suck on it!

I thank God every day that Columbus wasn't Chinese.

[Okla-homey]

Just sayin'

Screw the Burmese junta, go in, take them out and restore civil liberties and help the people. GO in with aid, support and troops and tell the junta to stuff it.

That'll happen about the same time monkeys fly out of my butt.

Look, there's very little oil there or anything else there we need. Granted, Burma is the world's second largest producer of opium, but we already have all of that we need from Afghan.

Moreover, they're not white people, and ther're largely Buddhist heathens. We only bust in to help white people. Ask Kanye, he'll tell you all about it.;)

[Chuck Bao]

Wahts you talking 'bout? Burma has a lot of natural gas and with the right deal they could pipe that stuff into China. They already do into Thailand.

They have a lot of other natural resources from gemstones to teak forests. It's just not fully developed.

And, ahem...the Karen are not only Christian... THEY'RE BAPTIST. Get the Southern Baptist rilled up and you got a war, amen and pass the collection plate.

[ric311]

That is an incredibly helpful thing you posted, ric311.

The key thing, though, is that the Burmese government insists that all aid must be given directly to them and they will distribute it. Many aid agencies, rightly so, insist that contributions go to a unified or verififiable source and reaches the people in need.

I think that is why so many planes of relief supplies and relief crews are sitting at the Bangkok airport.

If the planes and support staff get through, I would most certainly give money to shelterbox.

Thanks for that.

According to their website, they have gotten into Burma and are providing relief.

[SouthFortySooner]

I heard a "news blurb" this morning saying some "minister" in their government was passin out, tv's and dvd players as part of their relief program. The news person then questioned the usefullnes of these items in a country without electricity for days now. Talk about a source pic for the Farkers. :D

[tommieharris91]

I read a report that said Burma has an election coming up within the week where the government is basically asking for more power. The election is still scheduled to go on as planned.

[Okla-homey]

Media reports today indicate the food is being confiscated by the gubmint. I Maintain hardly a dime of anything contributed will go to ease suffering. Instead, it will go to fatten already fat cats. This is kinda like giving cash to purported "homeless" people. It's better to feed them directly and if that's not possible, fuggitaboutit.


UN halts aid to Myanmar after junta seizes supplies

May 9 10:12 AM US/Eastern

YANGON, Myanmar (AP) - Myanmar's junta seized U.N. aid shipments headed for hungry and homeless survivors of last week's devastating cyclone, prompting the world body to suspend further help on Friday.

The U.N. said the aid included 38 tons of high-energy biscuits and arrived in Myanmar on Friday on two flights from Bangladesh and the United Arab Emirates.

"All of the food aid and equipment that we managed to get in has been confiscated," U.N. World Food Program spokesman Paul Risley said. "For the time being, we have no choice but to end further efforts to bring critical needed food aid into Myanmar at this time."

Myanmar's government acknowledged taking control of the shipments and said it plans to distribute the aid "without delay by its own labor to the affected areas."

In a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press, government spokesman Ye Htut said the junta had "clearly stated" what it would do and denied the action amounted to a seizure.

"I would like to know which person or organization (made these) these baseless accusations," he said.

The WFP's regional director, Tony Banbury, directly appealed to Myanmar's military leaders in an interview with Associated Press Television News.

"Please, this food is going to people who need it very much. You and I, we have the same interests," Banbury said. Those victims—those 1 million or more people—who need this assistance are not part of a political dialogue. They need this humanitarian assistance. Please release it."

At least 65,000 people are dead or missing and entire villages are submerged in the Irrawaddy delta after Saturday's cyclone. Many of the survivors waiting for food, clean water and medicine were crammed into Buddhist monasteries or camped outdoors.

Aid groups warned the area is on the verge of a medical disaster and that thousands of children may have been orphaned. The U.N. estimates 1.5 million people have been "severely affected" and has voiced "significant concern" about the disposal of dead bodies.

"Many are not buried and lie in the water. They have started rotting and the stench is beyond words," Anders Ladekarl, head of the Danish Red Cross.

[olevetonahill]

Media reports today indicate the food is being confiscated by the gubmint. I Maintain hardly a dime of anything contributed will go to ease suffering. Instead, it will go to fatten already fat cats. This is kinda like giving cash to purported "homeless" people. It's better to feed them directly and if that's not possible, fuggitaboutit.

So the Gubment Is Taking all the gubment Cheese ?

[Okla-homey]

So the Gubment Is Taking all the gubment Cheese ?

Yep. That would appear to be the case. Its the same old story. The thugs with the guns keep the goods and the afflicted continue to suffer.

Donated money? The donater may as well be stuffing it into a rathole.

[Chuck Bao]

Gee, as if anyone should be surprised by this sudden revelation.

NEWS FLASH: THEY KILL MONKS!!!

The bad karma is already there, why not go whole hog.

[olevetonahill]

Gee, as if anyone should be surprised by this sudden revelation.

NEWS FLASH: THEY KILL MONKS!!!

The bad karma is already there, why not go whole hog.

Whats that got to do with Cheese ?

[Okla-homey]

Gee, as if anyone should be surprised by this sudden revelation.

NEWS FLASH: THEY KILL MONKS!!!

The bad karma is already there, why not go whole hog.

Which is why airdropped MRE's is the way to go. All you gotta do is shove them off in bales out the aft ramp at 20K feet. The bale breaks up as soon as it hits the slipstream. You're out of range of shoulder launched SAM's and the chow does fine because there's nothing in the pouch to break. Use Thai and US C-130's. You seed the afflicted areas with drops and include leaflets that each meal contains enough calories for a person to subsist on for 24 hours.

Offloading crap at airports and docks is a total waste.

if the Burmese AF comes up to "defend" against the incursion, you smoke their asses with your F-18 CAP from the carrier.

[Chuck Bao]

yeah, who moved my cheese?

It's probably a perspective thingy.

[Chuck Bao]

Which is why airdropped MRE's is the way to go. Use Thai and US C-130's. You seed the afflicted areas with drops and include leaflets that each meal contains enough calories for a person to subsist on for 24 hours.

Offloading crap at airports and docks is a total waste.

if the Burmese AF comes up to "defend" against the incursion, you smoke their asses with your F-18 CAP from the carrier.

This gets my vote as the post of the year. Homey, you should pack your bags and move to Washington.

[Okla-homey]

This gets my vote as the post of the year. Homey, you should pack your bags and move to Washington.

I'm telling ya, this is the way to go. This ain't my first rodeo.

[StoopTroup]

It's sad that the US has to sit this out and watch genocide go on...

It's high time someone else besides the U.S. try to fix it though.

We get **** on if we interfere and we get **** on if we use military force to go in there and stop it.

Unfortunately...it's the UN's resposiblity now IMO.

[Chuck Bao]

It's sad that the US has to sit this out and watch genocide go on...

It's high time someone else besides the U.S. try to fix it though.

We get **** on if we interfere and we get **** on if we use military force to go in there and stop it.

Unfortunately...it's the UN's resposiblity now IMO.

I don't really care who does it.

Take Homey's advice and drop food rations with a little piece of paper that says:


if any of your ****ty government cared, they'd actually work to do something about your suffering.

China is not your friend either, but since it is too busy sucking its own olympic dick at the moment, maybe it'll choke on it.

These rations are brought to you by people who love freedom and love your country. The rest of the world is so sorry about the death and destruction from the cyclone. We are there for you.

[Okla-homey]

I don't really care who does it.

Take Homey's advice and drop food rations with a little piece of paper that says:

and that my friend, is the sorta thing we used to do routinely during the Cold War.

[JohnnyMack]

This is kinda like giving cash to purported "homeless" people. It's better to feed them directly and if that's not possible, fuggitaboutit.

Homey,

You know the McDonald's at what is it, Peoria & I-244. I remember when I used to live in Owasso, I'd swing by that one on my way in to work from time to time. There used to be this homeless dude who would stand next to the board where you order and ask you to get him some breakfast.

[CORNholio]

They must be harberin' WMD's:texan:

[Paperclip]

Reports out of Myanmar that U.N. aid is now being distributed with local generals names on it as if it's coming from them, not the international community. Nice.

[Blue]

...and going to the wrong places...supposedly.

[Chuck Bao]

I love this Times article about Burma. It gives a pretty good perspective about why invasion wasn't the right answer, but could have been and still could be. I think this is a pretty good debate.

Thanks to everyone posting in this thread. Spek to all of you, whether I make it there with green dots or not.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1739053,00.html?cnn=yes


The disaster in Burma presents the world with perhaps its most serious humanitarian crisis since the 2004 Asian tsunami. By most reliable estimates, close to 100,000 people are dead. Delays in delivering relief to the victims, the inaccessibility of the stricken areas and the poor state of Burma's infrastructure and health systems mean that number is sure to rise. With as many as 1 million people still at risk, it is conceivable that the death toll will, within days, approach that of the entire number of civilians killed in the genocide in Darfur.

Government officials, all but absent since cyclone Nargis killed tens of thousands across Burma, pressed ahead with a referendum Saturday in villages still reeling from the disaster.

So what is the world doing about it? Not much. The military regime that runs Burma initially signaled it would accept outside relief, but has imposed so many conditions on those who would actually deliver it that barely a trickle has made it through. Aid workers have been held at airports. U.N. food shipments have been seized. U.S. naval ships packed with food and medicine idle in the Gulf of Thailand, waiting for an all-clear that may never come.

Burma's rulers have relented slightly, agreeing Friday to let in supplies and perhaps even some foreign relief workers. The government says it will allow a US C-130 transport plane to land inside Burma Monday. But it's hard to imagine a regime this insular and paranoid accepting robust aid from the U.S. military, let alone agreeing to the presence of U.S. Marines on Burmese soil — as Thailand and Indonesia did after the tsunami. The trouble is that the Burmese haven't shown the ability or willingness to deploy the kind of assets needed to deal with a calamity of this scale — and the longer Burma resists offers of help, the more likely it is that the disaster will devolve beyond anyone's control. "We're in 2008, not 1908," says Jan Egeland, the former U.N. emergency relief coordinator. "A lot is at stake here. If we let them get away with murder we may set a very dangerous precedent."

That's why it's time to consider a more serious option: invading Burma. Some observers, including former USAID director Andrew Natsios, have called on the U.S. to unilaterally begin air drops to the Burmese people regardless of what the junta says. The Bush Administration has so far rejected the idea — "I can't imagine us going in without the permission of the Myanmar government," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday — but it's not without precedent: as Natsios pointed out to the Wall Street Journal, the U.S. has facilitated the delivery of humanitarian aid without the host government's consent in places like Bosnia and Sudan.

A coercive humanitarian intervention would be complicated and costly. During the 2004 tsunami, some 24 U.S. ships and 16,000 troops were deployed in countries across the region; the mission cost the U.S. $5 million a day. Ultimately, the U.S. pledged nearly $900 million to tsunami relief. (By contrast, it has offered just $3.25 million to Burma.) But the risks would be greater this time: the Burmese government's xenophobia and insecurity make them prone to view U.S. troops — or worse, foreign relief workers — as hostile forces. (Remember Black Hawk Down?) Even if the U.S. and its allies made clear that their actions were strictly for humanitarian purposes, it's unlikely the junta would believe them. "You have to think it through — do you want to secure an area of the country by military force? What kinds of potential security risks would that create?" says Egelend. "I can't imagine any humanitarian organization wanting to shoot their way in with food."

So what other options exist? Retired General William Nash of the Council on Foreign Relations says the U.S. should first pressure China to use its influence over the junta to get them to open up and then supply support to the Thai and Indonesian militaries to carry out relief missions. "We can pay for it — we can provide repair parts to the Indonesians so they can get their Air Force up. We can lend the them two C-130s and let them paint the Indonesian flag on them," Nash says. "We have to get the stuff to people who can deliver it and who the Burmese government will accept, even if takes an extra day or two and even if it's not as efficient as the good old U.S. military." Egeland advocates that the U.N. Security Council take punitive steps short of war, such as freezing the regime's assets and issuing warrants for the arrest of individual junta members if they were to leave the country. Similar measures succeeded in getting the government of Ivory Coast to let in foreign relief teams in 2002, Egelend says.

And if that fails? "It's important for the rulers to know the world has other options," Egeland says. "If there were, say, the threat of a cholera epidemic that could claim hundreds of thousands of lives and the government was incapable of preventing it, then maybe yes — you would intervene unilaterally." But by then, it could be too late. The cold truth is that states rarely undertake military action unless their national interests are at stake; and the world has yet to reach a consensus about when, and under what circumstances, coercive interventions in the name of averting humanitarian disasters are permissible. As the response to the 2004 tsunami proved, the world's capacity for mercy is limitless. But we still haven't figured out when to give war a chance.