Best OU D-Line ever?

[soonerfan28]

I would have to say Dan Cody, Jimmy Wilkerson and Tommie Harris along with Dvoracek or McGruder in there. They were a great D-line, but then you have the Selmon brothers from the 70's, so anybody's thought?

[soonermix]

I would have to say Dan Cody, Jimmy Wilkerson and Tommie Harris along with Dvoracek or McGruder in there. They were a great D-line, but then you have the Selmon brothers from the 70's, so anybody's thought?

until somebody else goes to the hall of fame i gotta give my vote to Selmon and co.

[Cam]

until somebody else goes to the hall of fame i gotta give my vote to Selmon and co.

No kidding. They set the bar pretty damn high.

[KantoSooner]

Not even open to question

[Paperclip]

I would have to say Dan Cody, Jimmy Wilkerson and Tommie Harris along with Dvoracek or McGruder in there. They were a great D-line, but then you have the Selmon brothers from the 70's, so anybody's thought?

My thoughts are you must be young. :)

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Yeah I can't see how you can top the Selmon bros. You can make a strong case for LRS as one of the 2-3 best DTs ever.

[soonerfan28]

I'm 28, so yes I'm young. They played before I was even born and I guess it doesn't hurt that we won 2 national title while they were here. I thought it would be a good topic for debate, but I guess it's pretty clear.

[NormanPride]

For one pure player, that's true. And it's not like the rest of the line was crap, either. ;) However, Tommie is up there with LRS, IMO. Maybe not that caliber in the pros yet, but he was an unblockable beast in college. Dvoracek, McGruder, Cody, Wilkerson... That line was perhaps more deep than the other. Though I'm not too familiar with that era so I may be wrong.

[SoonerDood]

The Depth in 03 was simply mind-boggling. We may never be that good again.

[badger]

The Depth in 03 was simply mind-boggling. We may never be that good again.

Yeah, they kept our knee-less quarterback from getting injured... with the exception of a few exceptions

[JLEW1818]

03-04 no questions asked, might be the best in the nation, ever.

[sooner n houston]

03-04 no questions asked, might be the best in the nation, ever.

I can't believe anyone who ever saw the Selmon brothers play would/could make that statement!

[Animal Mother]

I was a freshman at OU in 1975. Saw every home game and a couple of road games. I saw the 2003 bunch play and they were awesome. I never saw any of them reach out and knock down a runner with one paw like Leroy did while laying on the turf. I also saw him blow up double and triple teams like fat bubbles in bacon grease.

[soonerfan28]

Not to take anything away from the Selmon's, but weren't offensive lineman like 240 pounds.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Not to take anything away from the Selmon's, but weren't offensive lineman like 240 pounds.


A little bigger, but it's all relative. Hell, I'm 270 and my dad was 220 at his biggest and you wouldn't call me a fat guy. People are just bigger. Give it 20 years and O linemen will be 400lbs.

[soonerfan28]

What I meant is Selmon was bigger then most O lineman from that era, so it wasn't quite as hard as it might be today. I went back and looked and I found were he played at 256 pounds, so that would be relative to today. An average guard is a bout 300 pounds and so is a DT.

[CU Sooner]

I would put the 85 d-line as one of the top 3. Tony Casillas, Darrell Reed, Kevin Murphy, Troy Johnson, Steve Bryan, and Richard Reed. Combined with the lb's that was probably the best D ever. Each one of these d-lines played in differnet eras so it is hard to say which was better. However if I had to rank I would go 74, 85, then 03.

[Collier11]

Lets give these guys some time, geez!

English-1 yr starter
Beal-1 yr part time starter
Mccoy-1 yr starter
Williams-always hurt
Granger-2 yr starter
Bennett-2 yr part time starter
etc....

No AA's, I think only English has even made All-conf

[KantoSooner]

Size is one thing, speed another. Leroy had decent size (even for today - and was a monster then) and was easily the fastest D-Lineman who ever was RELATIVE TO THE MEN HE WAS PLAYING AGAINST.
Different eras produce different players and are not truly comparable, but, all that said, I'd still take 74-75 as our best so far....with 85 and 03 extremely close. And this bunch we have now has every possibility to get into that conversation and I sincerely hope they do.

[OklahomaRed]

Didn't Tony Casillas, Kevin Murphy, and Rick Bryan all play together in 84? Not bad when you consider Bosworth backing them up?

[Animal Mother]

Didn't Tony Casillas, Kevin Murphy, and Rick Bryan all play together in 84? Not bad when you consider Bosworth backing them up?

I remember kicking a field goal for a 3-0 lead in the '85 Ice Bowl in Stillwaterbreedsstillminds and thinking "Game's over!" because of that over all defense. O.K. Lashar kicked it. I remembered it.

[Charla]

Ah Yes, Those were the days. A time when we still played Defense at OU. Now according to all the experts we just bend and don't break, even though we looked a litttle broke in the fiesta bowl when the white boy rumbled like a tank for 50 yds to score and remove any hope for winning. Maybe we could have that D-Line put on the wheaties box as we know they would go soft in the bowl.

[soonerfan28]

Has anybody else noticed the trend that we play in BCS Championship every 4 years. With that said I say this is our year and we will have maybe McCoy Granger and English get AA consideration this year.

[AlbqSooner]

03 was a VERY good d line. 85 was awesome. 74-75 was fully dominant.

There are, if they are still alive, two brothers from Pryor who were the forerunners of the Pro Combine. They put together notebooks on all college seniors that they could and sold them to the NFL teams. They were, at that time, considered the experts at collating information on available talent.

One of the brothers, and I am sorry that I do not recall the names, said that in four years of college football Leroy was knocked to the ground twice. TWICE! once was when he was triple teamed and just got overpowered, once was when he was engaged with an o lineman and Dewey ran into him.

[Big Red Ron]

Thank you Mrs. Selmon!

this is a dumb topic.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Ok. Here's the stories I grew up on. I began going to the games about that time. The team was running sprints and the coaches weren't happy with the output. They brought the Selmon brothers in to run with the backs. Guess who came in 1-2-3?

In Lucius's senior year the Sooners played Nebraska and held them to negative yards rushing for the game. This game was for the Orange Bowl.

This is not even a close call. There has never been a d-line like that one! Leroy was the first draft pick of the expansion team Bucs. Hall o' Fame!

Those other guys are amazing, but the Selmons were a group never to be bested.

[GottaHavePride]

Yeah, they kept our knee-less quarterback from getting injured... with the exception of a few exceptions

Um, our 03 D-Line kept Jason White from getting injured? Wha?

You asleep at the wheel there, badger? ;)

[Sooner-Magic]

The Selmons were the best D-Line OU has had since I started to going to games. Which was in the 60's. If OU has had a better D-Line it would have had to be before that.

[JLEW1818]

No way, harris and cody end of convo. Yes I know its hard to compare now and then. Just like in any sport... the 2000's compared to the 60's or 70's or 80's .. but i still think about the 2003-04 sooners everyday........ I just cant get enough about that team................................

[soonerloyal]

Maybe it's just because I'm an old-timer - but I think if we could pull the Selmon Brothers out of the past, in their prime...I think they'd kick the snot out of anyone on the turf from this day and age. JMOO.

*fondly remembering the "GOD BLESS MRS. SELMON!" signs we held in the stands*


OT: Just imagine - an OU team with the Selmons, Boz, von Schaumann, Heupel and AD. Whooooa. Purty.

[KantoSooner]

And you know why Dr. Tom had his last heart attack, don't you?



Someone told him Mrs. Selmon was pregnant again.


It was appropos.

[RacerX]

1973

[TopDawg]

Our '95 DL might be one of the most underrated.

Cedric Jones was a senior, Baron Tanner and Rod Manuel were juniors, Martin Chase was a sophomore and Kelly Gregg was a freshman.

[HateTheWhorns]

Didn't Tony Casillas, Kevin Murphy, and Rick Bryan all play together in 84? Not bad when you consider Bosworth backing them up?


I think you are right about this, but the 1984 D-Line did not come into its own until the goal line stand against Texas (15-15 Tie). It was that series that gave birth to the invincible mind-set that our D possessed for the next few years. I think once we lost to Miami (the 2nd time) and Boz went pro, we started to lose a bit of our edge.

I'll take Lucious, Dewey, Lee Roy, and Jimbo over anything I have seen in my lifetime. Would probably put the '85-'86 D-Lines in a tie for 2nd and 2003 in 3rd.

The best single game D-Line performance (against a good team) would have to be the 1975? OU-NEB game where we beat them 27-0 and Nebbish (I think) did not cross the 50 yard line the entire day. Second best D-Line performance has to be the 2001 Orange Bowl against FSU (against one of the greatest statistical offenses in the history of college football). The 1976 Orange Bowl against Michigan (7 points) was also a great performance.:pop:

[badger]

Um, our 03 D-Line kept Jason White from getting injured? Wha?

You asleep at the wheel there, badger? ;)

I said A FEW EXCEPTIONS, not MANY exceptions and if you don't know what those exceptions are, I refuse to mention them here!

...however, if you do recall, it involved certain people chanting "demond parker's fault!" and a lot of "tigah bait" chants. That's as far as I'll get into it. :mad:

[RacerX]

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1318/sfleroyoh5.jpg

[RacerX]

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6862/p1010018cropas8.jpg

[Mad Dog Madsen]

NICE PICS!!!

[RedstickSooner]

What I meant is Selmon was bigger then most O lineman from that era, so it wasn't quite as hard as it might be today. I went back and looked and I found were he played at 256 pounds, so that would be relative to today. An average guard is a bout 300 pounds and so is a DT.

If this is the basis by which we judge talent & ability, Jim Thorpe probably sucked arse. (I don't know his stats, weight-wise, but I bet he's way undersized by modern standards).

So, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

An athlete is judged by how they compete. LRS was a freak in his day. If he existed today, he'd probably be something like 320 pounds, with 4.45 speed -- because that's a freak for the current game.

[soonerfan28]

If this is the basis by which we judge talent & ability, Jim Thorpe probably sucked arse. (I don't know his stats, weight-wise, but I bet he's way undersized by modern standards).

So, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

An athlete is judged by how they compete. LRS was a freak in his day. If he existed today, he'd probably be something like 320 pounds, with 4.45 speed -- because that's a freak for the current game.

If you look at my first sentence I was saying that it was easier for hime because he was bigger then most lineman and then after that I admitted I was wrong and that he played at about the same weight as O-linemen. Pretty much the same situation as today, so I contradicted myself.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

I can't believe in all this discussion of the mid-70s D-lines, nobody's mentioned Duane Baccus ;)

Sorry, just HAD to give the shameless plug to my mom's boss.

[Jdog]

I think you are right about this, but the 1984 D-Line did not come into its own until the goal line stand against Texas (15-15 Tie). It was that series that gave birth to the invincible mind-set that our D possessed for the next few years. I think once we lost to Miami (the 2nd time) and Boz went pro, we started to lose a bit of our edge.

I'll take Lucious, Dewey, Lee Roy, and Jimbo over anything I have seen in my lifetime. Would probably put the '85-'86 D-Lines in a tie for 2nd and 2003 in 3rd.

The best single game D-Line performance (against a good team) would have to be the 1975? OU-NEB game where we beat them 27-0 and Nebbish (I think) did not cross the 50 yard line the entire day. Second best D-Line performance has to be the 2001 Orange Bowl against FSU (against one of the greatest statistical offenses in the history of college football). The 1976 Orange Bowl against Michigan (7 points) was also a great performance.:pop:


:pop: I read this whole thread and couldn't believe that no one had mentioned the 2000 line until (kind of sort of) your post. They have to be rank up with the mid-70's and mid 80’s teams after what they did during Red OCTOBER and against FSU. The D-line was small but fast - and on an undefeated team - which is more that the 80's groups can say.

And by the way - I attended OU in the seventies and the 27-0 game was actually in 73 - and Neb did cross the fifty once, with a pass down to the OU 33, but the receiver was hit and fumbled, and Randy Hughes recovered the ball - so Neb never snapped the ball in OU territory. It was the single best game for an OU D ever!!!

[Collier11]

Now the best Defensive game ever could be a big time debate, what about the Cotton Bowl against Arky or the Natl title against the vaunted FSU offense

[RedstickSooner]

If you look at my first sentence I was saying that it was easier for hime because he was bigger then most lineman and then after that I admitted I was wrong and that he played at about the same weight as O-linemen. Pretty much the same situation as today, so I contradicted myself.

Sorry, 28 -- I must've gotten all twitterpated and replied without reading you all the way through :)

[GottaHavePride]

The best single game D-Line performance (against a good team) would have to be the 1975? OU-NEB game where we beat them 27-0 and Nebbish (I think) did not cross the 50 yard line the entire day. Second best D-Line performance has to be the 2001 Orange Bowl against FSU (against one of the greatest statistical offenses in the history of college football). The 1976 Orange Bowl against Michigan (7 points) was also a great performance.:pop:

January '02 (2001 season) Cotton Bowl. Arkansas had 4 yards at the half. Four.

[Sooner24]

I said A FEW EXCEPTIONS, not MANY exceptions and if you don't know what those exceptions are, I refuse to mention them here!

...however, if you do recall, it involved certain people chanting "demond parker's fault!" and a lot of "tigah bait" chants. That's as far as I'll get into it. :mad:

Put the bottle down and slowly back away from the keyboard. :eek:



;)

[Sooner24]

:pop: I read this whole thread and couldn't believe that no one had mentioned the 2000 line until (kind of sort of) your post. They have to be rank up with the mid-70's and mid 80’s teams after what they did during Red OCTOBER and against FSU. The D-line was small but fast - and on an undefeated team - which is more that the 80's groups can say.

And by the way - I attended OU in the seventies and the 27-0 game was actually in 73 - and Neb did cross the fifty once, with a pass down to the OU 33, but the receiver was hit and fumbled, and Randy Hughes recovered the ball - so Neb never snapped the ball in OU territory. It was the single best game for an OU D ever!!!

Did you forget the 1993 OSU game?

OSU had 1 first down and just 31 yards of total offense. That included 33 rushing yards and -2 passing yards. I might be mistaken, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think their one first down came by penalty.

[Sooner24]

I would rank the D-lines in this order. 1973, 1974, 1985, 2000

[Frozen Sooner]

Did you forget the 1993 OSU game?

OSU had 1 first down and just 31 yards of total offense. That included 33 rushing yards and -2 passing yards. I might be mistaken, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think their one first down came by penalty.

You are correct. It was a pass interference penalty.

[JLEW1818]

I would rank the D-lines in this order. 1973, 1974, 1985, 2000


So the 2003 dline is not in your top 4? You cant compare 70's to 2000's.

[Sooner-Magic]

You cant compare 70's to 2000's.


I don't have any problem comparing them.

[TopDawg]

The 2000 d-line was incredibly good at freeing up the rest of our defense to make plays. Sure, they made some great plays from time to time, but their biggest strength was keeping o-linemen off of Rocky and T-Marsh so that THEY could make plays.

It's not something that should be taken lightly...it was clearly a big part of our success that year...but to me it doesn't compare to the play-making ability of some of our other d-lines. If you put that 2000 d-line on an otherwise lousy team, and it probably wouldn't make them a whole lot better. You put the Selmon brothers on an otherwise lousy team, and you're headed to the Insight.Com bowl!

[RacerX]

You cant compare 70's to 2000's.

Only because a lot of fans were born since the 70's.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Did you forget the 1993 OSU game?

OSU had 1 first down and just 31 yards of total offense. That included 33 rushing yards and -2 passing yards. I might be mistaken, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think their one first down came by penalty.

Yeah, it was a good performance. But OSU SUCCS that year. Even more than most years.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

First of all, at this moment, the '73 line was the best of all time. Jackson, Cody, Harris and Dvoracek were great, and I can certainly buy them for one of the top 3 or 4 OU has ever had. But Dusty would not have broken into the Selmon rotation. No chance. And please let's not forget then soon-to-be All American Jimbo Elrod was at end. He's still #1 among d-linemen all time at OU in tackles for loss.

Having gotten that out of the way, allow me to straighten out the 80's a bit. I believe the equivalent, if not the better, of '03 was 1983. Casillas at NG, Ricky Bryan and Bob Slater at DT, Daryl Goodlow and Kevin Murphy at ends. That was a rocking D-line. (More on why I think it compares very favorably to '03 below.)

Then the '84 line actually fell apart just a touch. Remember Murphy got hurt early in the season which allowed him a hardship to play in '85. The bonus was it allowed one guy in particular, Troy Johnson, to get really solid experience and develop into a playmaker. And maybe motivated Darrell Reed to become a monster. Casillas still manned the middle, but we lost both Slater and Bryan. Jeff Tupper was pretty raw at the beginning of the season, but maybe out of necessity did improve fairly quickly. And the other tackle position was a mish-mash until Steve Bryan started to come along late in the season.

But then that led to the '85 line, which in my opinion is superior to '03 as a college line, both because of the starting 5 and the depth, which was just sick. You had Casillas at nose, Tupper and Bryan very solid at DT with Richard Reed rotating in, and a trio of DE's in Kevin Murphy, Troy Johnson, and Darrell Reed that quite simply was not fair to other teams. And it was the front of the #1 Defense overall in the land that year. '03 finished 3rd in the country in total D.

And I know some of the argument is today's athletes vs. yesterday's. But the equalizer is how they did comparitively in the NFL when it's best against best:

1 HOF career + 1 solid 8-year career ('73-Lee Roy and Dewey) > 1 solid 11-year career +1 solid 10-year career + 1 solid 8-year career ('83-Casillas, Bryan, and Murphy) > 1 3-year career with a couple of Pro Bowls so far ('03 Tommie).

Now of course the book is still out on '03. But Jackson isn't in the NFL any more is he? Cody and Dvoracek can't seem to get healthy.

Now if Tommie plays at the same level for another 9-10 seasons, he will be HOF and that raises the stock of the class, as would Cody and Dvoracek if they can put together several solid healthy seasons.

So with time the view could change. Heck, I hear there's a certain college football team this upcoming year that is going to feature what could be a MONSTER d-line...

Some cats with the names Granger, McCoy, English, Williams, and Beal. Maybe you've heard of them... ;)

Ain't it great to be a Sooner?

[HateTheWhorns]

January '02 (2001 season) Cotton Bowl. Arkansas had 4 yards at the half. Four.

Sorry, when I think of good teams, Arkie is just not one that comes to mind :)

Arkie was totally a one-dimensional team that year. We could have played 20 quarters against them that day and they would not have scored a TD. It was a great all-around effort by our D.

[wishbonesooner]

Leroy, Dewey, and Jimbo Elrod were all 1st team AA in 75. I think 74 was the best defense with Rod Shoate and Randy Hughes.

[stoopified]

1973 DE-Jimbo Elrod
DT-LeeRoy Selmon
NG- Lucious Selmon
DT-Dewey Selmon
DE-Mike Struck
All three Selmons earned AA during their careers as did Elrod.Struck would have been at least all-cnference on any other team.