Good Morning...Fokker Flyer Falls

[Okla-homey]

April 20, 1918: Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron" was killed in action

On this day 90 years ago in the skies over Vauz sur Somme, France, Manfred von Richthofen, the notorious German flying ace known as "The Red Baron" by British aircrews, is killed by Allied fire.

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Manfred von Richthofen

Von Richthofen (pronounced "fon-RICK-toeffun"), the son of a Prussian nobleman, switched from the German army to the Imperial Air Service in 1915. By 1916, he was terrorizing the skies over the western front in an Fokker "Albatross" biplane, downing 15 enemy planes by the end of the year, including one piloted by British flying ace Major Lanoe Hawker.

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Fokker D-5 "Albatross"

In 1917, Richthofen surpassed all flying ace records in WWI and began using a Fokker triplane, painted entirely red in tribute to his old cavalry regiment. Although only used during the last eight months of his career, it is this aircraft that Richthofen was most commonly associated with and it led to an enduring English nickname for the German pilot which also incorporated von Richthofen's title of Prussian nobility--the Red Baron.

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Fokker DR-1

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It is believed one of the reasons von Richthofen was so phenomenally successful in aerial combat is because he had extraordinarily good eyesight --estimated at 15-15. Even in dogfights today, the guy who is first to spot his opponent usually wins because he gets a head start on working out the geometry necessary to quickly get in position to get the first shot. (This also explains why today's USAF will provide the "lasik" corrective procedure for any fighter guy who needs it.)

On April 21, 1918, with 80 victories under his belt, Richthofen penetrated deep into Allied territory in pursuit of a British aircraft. The Red Baron was flying too low over the trenches and as near as anyone has ever been able to establish--an Australian soldier firing at Richthofen's aircraft got lucky and a .303 rifle bullet blasted through the fabric and wood of von Richthofen's cockpit and fatally pierced his chest.

The Fokker "Tridecker" plane crashed into a field alongside the road from Corbie to Bray.

Another account has Captain A. Roy Brown, a Canadian in the Royal Air Force, actually shot the baron down in the same engagement. We'll probably never know for sure which of the two theories is fact but a field autopsy report filed by a British surgeon seems to favor the first theory.


Copy extract from A.H.File No. 21/13/506
In the Field
22nd April 1918

We have made a surface examination of Captain Baron von Richthofen and find that there are only the entrance and exit wounds of one rifle bullet on the trunk. The entrance wound is on the right side about the level of the ninth-rib, which is fractured, just in front of the posterior axillary line. The bullet appears to have passed obliquely backwards through the chest striking the spinal column , from which it glanced in a forward direction and issued on the left side of the chest, at a level about two inches higher than its entrance on the right and about in the anterior axillary line.
There was also a compound fracture of the lower jaw on the left side, apparently not caused by a missile - and also some minor bruises of the head and face.

The body was not opened - these facts were ascertained by probing from the surface wounds.

(Sgd) Thomas Sinclair
Colonel AMS
Consulting surgeon IV Army
BEF

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von Richthofen's funeral

Anyhoo, Australian troops recovered his body, and he was buried with full military honors. Later, a British pilot flew over von Richthofen's squadron airfield and dropped a wreath to which was attached a photo of the funeral so his squadronmates would know he had been honored in death.

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On the day von Richthofen "bought the farm" he was 25 years old. In a time of wooden and fabric aircraft, when 20 air victories ensured a pilot legendary status, Manfred von Richthofen downed 80 enemy aircraft and is regarded to this day as the "Ace of Aces."

As an aside, among the members of von Richthofen's squadron was another ace named Hermann Goering who would eventually rise to command Hitler's Luftwaffe and play a prominent role in the Nazi government.

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Goering as a young German pilot in WWI

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Von Richthofen's squadron lineage continues to the present day. The modern German Luftwaffe sports a fighter squadron named in honor of the "Red Baron." It is equipped with MiG-29 "Fulcrum" aircraft the West German Luftwaffe inherited from the air force of the former East Germany when the two states merged to form modern Germany.

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Insignia of jagdeschwader Richthofen

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Modern Luftwaffe MiG-29 of fighter squadron "Richthofen"

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[Jerk]

Maybe after China makes a move on Tawain our F-22's will have a chance to break that record. If not, I bet it stands forever.

I betchya the next generation of fighters after the F-22 are pilotless.

[TUSooner]

Good one, Homey.

[royalfan5]

I believe you left out his battles with Snoopy.

[12]

I've always thought the treatment of his burial was an A-1 class move. Nifty.

[Frozen Sooner]

estimated at 15-15

So he could see at 15 yards what a person with normal vision could see at 15 yards? ;)

[TexasLidig8r]

Any thoughts on the movie Fly Boys?

[BigRedJed]

I was always fascinated by the fact that he was shot down by an infantryman. I watched a show in the past year or so that took a detailed, scientific approach to identifying which soldier actually shot him down. They used firsthand accounts, physical evidence, computers, an actual recreation... ...it was a pretty impressive show. If I remember, there was actually a third possibility in the mix. At the end of the show, you were pretty convinced they had identified the right guy.

I don't remember which one it was, though. :mad:

I'm no aerodynamics engineer, but if I remember right from school the extra surface of the triplane made it far, far more maneuverable than a biplane (more control surfaces, too), if a bit slower. That probably contributed to his combat efficiency, and perhaps ultimately his death, too.

Great thread, Homey.

[Dio]

But could the Red Baron say "bomb" on his airplane?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Maybe after China makes a move on Tawain our F-22's will have a chance to break that record. If not, I bet it stands forever.

I betchya the next generation of fighters after the F-22 are pilotless.

he's considered the ace of aces mainly because he was the first true dogpilot. for example, others such as erich hartmann (http://www.2worldwar2.com/erich-hartmann.htm) and marseille (http://www.2worldwar2.com/marseille.htm) during ww2 destroyed his count...

[BigRedJed]

Interesting read on Erich Hartmann. We probably don't hear so much about him because he apparently was mainly a burr under Russia's saddle. Impressive.

Also sad to hear that he had to serve 10 years at hard labor in a Russian prison, providing he didn't commit any offenses or war crimes other than being a successful fighter pilot for his country's air force. I mean, didn't we provide amnesty to German soldiers not specifically accused of war crimes? Of course, we are talking about the Russians here.

[12]

Just consider flying fabric and wood in battle. That's gotta take doo-dads.

[BigRedJed]

Heh. You said "wood."

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Interesting read on Erich Hartmann. We probably don't hear so much about him because he apparently was mainly a burr under Russia's saddle. Impressive.

Also sad to hear that he had to serve 10 years at hard labor in a Russian prison, providing he didn't commit any offenses or war crimes other than being a successful fighter pilot for his country's air force. I mean, didn't we provide amnesty to German soldiers not specifically accused of war crimes? Of course, we are talking about the Russians here.

we captured him and turned him over to the russians as they had a huge bounty on his head. we did that with a number of german soldiers. in retrospect, hartmann's biggest mistake was not flying the me262. had he had jet experience there isn't a chance in the world we'd have turned him over.

[BigRedJed]

That's interesting. Makes sense.

Hope the Russians paid up for us handing him over. I still maintain that if a guy's worst crime is fighting for his country (without regard for WHICH country) as a uniformed combatant, and as far as we know he observed the laws of war, he should be granted amnesty at the end of the conflict.

[Frozen Sooner]

Personally, I think anyone who fights on the losing side of a war should be forced into a money-losing lease in a piece of crap arena.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i really wish gregoire would have gotten more involved in the whole sonics thing. first, her resemblance with the grinch is uncanny. second, its just one more thing that she could raise taxes for.

[Frozen Sooner]

The whole deal is weird for me. I'm a Sonics fan because of the "proximity" and because, frankly, Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp together in their primes was amazing to watch. Heck, they made Hersey Hawkins look like an all-star. On the other hand, I won't have any sort of problem rooting for a team that's in OKC.

[12]

I still maintain that if a guy's worst crime is fighting for his country (without regard for WHICH country) as a uniformed combatant, and as far as we know he observed the laws of war, he should be granted amnesty at the end of the conflict.

I tend to agree. As long as they are following the "rules" of combat, they should ride. A good friend of mine, (still a German national, BTW), lost her father recently. She is late-50s, he was a decorated combat soldier in his younger years. I'll let you do the math.

By all accounts, the guy became a West German citizen and became a regular working stiff until retirement. He took some of our guys out, with little doubt. Still, as Homey eluded to in the Pope thread with his 'deserter' problem, he was following orders and was a good soldier.

Odds are good, he would have made a fine American soldier as well.

[12]

Also, even though some of the rhetoric detours off path, I like seeing the discourse in a few of the recent history threads. We're actually LEARNING.

Scary thought, I know.

[TUSooner]

Homey, I inadvertently forgot to express my admiration and approval of your audacious application of alliteration.

[BigRedJed]

Also, even though some of the rhetoric detours off path, I like seeing the discourse in a few of the recent history threads. We're actually LEARNING.

Scary thought, I know.
You mean detouring off-path like talking NBA/Seattle Supersonics in a thread about the Red Baron? I'm OBSESSED with that particular issue, and even I wouldn't do such a thing.

[Barry Wilkinson]

The whole deal is weird for me. I'm a Sonics fan because of the "proximity" and because, frankly, Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp together in their primes was amazing to watch. Heck, they made Hersey Hawkins look like an all-star. On the other hand, I won't have any sort of problem rooting for a team that's in OKC.
So, Froze... ...err... ...Mike, are you saying that you cheer for the Sonics even though they don't have "Alaska," or "Pacific Northwest" in the name? Hmmm...

[BigRedJed]

I don't believe you people.

[Cooter Finger]

"You people?" Don't point that thing in this direction, pal.

[BigRedJed]

:rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

So, Froze... ...err... ...Mike, are you saying that you cheer for the Sonics even though they don't have "Alaska," or "Pacific Northwest" in the name? Hmmm...

I know, it's crazy.

Then again, neither the Chargers nor the Padres have "Alaska" or "Pacific Northwest" in their names, and I root like hell for them.

Plus, they're not ripping $100 bills out of the hands of Alaska teachers to fund tax breaks for multimillionaire players while giving them a license to rape and pillage through town. So that's a bonus for me. ;)

[birddog]

hijack of the year.

[BigRedJed]

I'm not biting. Let's keep this thread on the Red Baron tip, people.

[Barry Wilkinson]

Heh. That's funny, Mike. Tell me more.

[BigRedJed]

Good lord. Just what this board needs. Another thread on the Sonics to OKC saga. Please stop it, people.

[Barry Wilkinson]

Mike, how do you feel about how sports might relate to quality of life in a city? Also, do you like ballet?

[Frozen Sooner]

We're going to try to get an Arena League 2 team up here soon. We plan on paying for it by ripping up roads and selling the asphalt to the highest bidder. Edit: Also, we're going to make the ballet dancers be cheerleaders.

[StoopTroup]

I think any war loser should grant me a contract to rebuild their country over a 30 year period.

I also think I should get a 50 million signing bonus too.

[Nichols Gaillardia]

Mike, how do you feel about how sports might relate to quality of life in a city? Also, do you like ballet?
Thank you for posing such a discerning question, plebe. I, for one, am especially keen on the ballet. It appeals to all of my sophisticated, urbane sensibilities far more than most of the modest pursuits that tend to be of interest to you disadvantaged simpletons.

[BigRedJed]

Is it just me, or does Nichols Gaillardia look a little like Curtis Fitzpatrick?

[Frozen Sooner]

We figure if we get an AFL2 team, coupled with our soon-to-be Kelly Cup champion Anchorage Aces and TWO NBC baseball franchises, we're pretty much set on being a sub-minor-league city.

[Nichols Gaillardia]

It must just be you, hater of learning.

[Frozen Sooner]

And here's the awesomest part: not one athlete playing in Anchorage will pay income tax or sales tax. At all. That's a promise from me to you.

[Nichols Gaillardia]

TIMING RUINER!!!

[royalfan5]

I'm not biting. Let's keep this thread on the Red Baron tip, people.
Personally, I always thought Tombstone was slightly better than Red Baron.

[BigRedJed]

Thank goodness SOMEBODY has some sense. RED BARON, PPL!!

[Frozen Sooner]

Papa Murphy eats Tombstone for lunch then craps out Red Baron.

[12]

YUCK YUCK YUCK.

Now here's Roy.

http://www.top40db.net/images/Artists/B/Buck%20Owens.jpg

[royalfan5]

Papa Murphy eats Tombstone for lunch then craps out Red Baron.

Papa Murphy shouldn't be included in that comparison. It's like saying OU would kick the crap out of every team in the Sun Belt. Sure it's true, but not particularly germane to the situation.

[Mixer!]

IT AIN'T TRUE! [hairGel]

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Papa Murphy shouldn't be included in that comparison. It's like saying OU would kick the crap out of every team in the Sun Belt. Sure it's true, but not particularly germane to the situation.

Good to see we're getting back on to the Red Barron talking about germane's and all

[TexasLidig8r]

Good lord. Just what this board needs. Another thread on the Sonics to OKC saga. Please stop it, people.

WAIT A SECOND!!!

The Sonics are moving to OKC?

When did THIS happen? :confused: