I hate Vista.

[NormanPride]

So our company has given us an ultimatum: Vista by the end of May. Lucky me, I get to be a tester! So I'm going about the week-long task of getting my new shiny Vista laptop the same as my old decrepit XP laptop, and I run into a slew of errors, blockades, workarounds, and "features". It's a crapfest! :mad:

The latest benefit of Vista made me use the command prompt to install something. First, I had to make sure I was in the Administrators user group. Then, I had to run the command prompt program "as Administrator" because apparently being an Administrator isn't Administrator-ie enough for Vista. :mad: I had to register a new .dll with the system because Vista forgot about it, and then I had to navigate to my installer program to get the damn thing to run! All this within the command line. I'm sorry I tried to use the GUI to do things, Microsoft. I'll think better next time. :mad:

[Partial Qualifier]

We're struggling with this decision. All the issues surrounding Vista and Microsoft's heavy-handed approach with this piece of crap, it's bad enough to make us consider alternatives. Which in our environment would've sounded absurd a short time ago.

It's just ridiculous.

[Ike]

remember when all you ever had was a command line....


those were the days.


Or, if your a government scientist, those still are the days. Not that I'm complaining about it. I actually find it easier to actually get things done when I'm not needing to figure out which buttons to point and click on.

[NormanPride]

jkm, I'm looking at you.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Ike. I am fine with a command line, and it certainly gave me a bit of nostalgia using it. But for ****'s sake, we pay brazillions of dollars a year to get licenses to their GUI OS, and I should hope to not have to use it on a regular basis. This sucks.

[Stoop Dawg]

XP Users: "Microsoft's OS is not secure enough!"

Vista Users: "Microsoft's OS is too secure!"

Turning off UAC prompts will probably solve 99% of the problems you have installing software. The other 1% is usually solved by using only Vista-compatible software.

I was frustrated with Vista for a few weeks when I first got it. Now I love it.

[soonerboomer93]

yeah, you can turn off that UAC

i went and relaoded my laptop with xp, and well

there are some features in vista that do make a difference. I'll probably go back to vista this weekend

[NormanPride]

We don't have the option of turning off UAC because our national offices would yell at us and turn it back on for us.

Face it. You shouldn't have to turn off a major "feature" just to be able to use the damn thing. It's a piece of ****.

[Jello Biafra]

what did you expect? it was helped along in the development stage in ASSStin and if i remember correctly, the developement name for the proggie was "longhorn" was it not? or was that the server version?

i had vista on my work laptop abouuuuuuuut 2 days. i took it back to the helpdesk and told them i couldn't do my job and to put xp back on it......think about it this way for my job.....level 3 techs are the ones with the knowledge to do what we need to do as admins but level 1 techs are the helpdesk techs with the true admin privledges and in most cases were working the mcdonalds drive thru 6 months before going to osu tech to get the a+ cert..... you should try to program a network switch w/o admin rights......its a hoot i tell ya....

[Stoop Dawg]

So our company has given us an ultimatum: Vista by the end of May.

Don't get me wrong. While I think Vista is fine, this kind of ultimatum is (on the face of it) kind of silly. Unless they some ulterior motives, there's really not reason to rush away from XP. Slow and steady wins the race.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

jkm, I'm looking at you.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Ike. I am fine with a command line, and it certainly gave me a bit of nostalgia using it. But for ****'s sake, we pay brazillions of dollars a year to get licenses to their GUI OS, and I should hope to not have to use it on a regular basis. This sucks.

i believe the way i coded it it was looking for cobrakai...

on a more serious note, i'm in xbox so i have to experience it just like you do. there are ways to get around this, but since it took me 2 years to figure them out i'll let you learn the hard way. vista has actually proven to be much more stable for me than xp.

[yermom]

i've yet to have the displeasure of installing it

the idea of just running Mac OS or Fedora and a VM running XP for the other dumb crap i can't do is sounding better and better

isn't Windows 7 slated to come out soon? i'm thinking Vista is the new ME

[Stoop Dawg]

Face it. You shouldn't have to turn off a major "feature" just to be able to use the damn thing. It's a piece of ****.

People turn "features" on and off all the time. That's what's great about configuration options - they're *options*.

It's highly unlikely that "Vista" made you use the command prompt to install something. I've installed scores of apps without using the command prompt. It's much more likely that the "something" isn't Vista-compatible. Why your company is forcing Vista on you when you need non-compatible software to do your job is beyond me.

[Stoop Dawg]

isn't Windows 7 slated to come out soon?

Depends on whether you consider 2010 "soon". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7


i'm thinking Vista is the new ME

Vista gets a bad rap from XP users who think it should be the same as XP. It's not. It's different. I don't have many problems with my XP desktop, but I don't have many problems with my Vista laptop either.

[Widescreen]

I had to run the command prompt program "as Administrator" because apparently being an Administrator isn't Administrator-ie enough for Vista.

Yep, we have an old internally written tool that I have to do that with also. I guess launching apps this way is like being Administrator++ or something. Stupid.

[Ike]

We don't have the option of turning off UAC because our national offices would yell at us and turn it back on for us.

Face it. You shouldn't have to turn off a major "feature" just to be able to use the damn thing. It's a piece of ****.

yeah...you're gonna want to turn it off anyway...
http://www.crn.com/software/207100934?cid=CRNFeed



"The reason we put UAC into the platform was to annoy users. I'm serious," said Cross.

[yermom]

Depends on whether you consider 2010 "soon". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7



Vista gets a bad rap from XP users who think it should be the same as XP. It's not. It's different. I don't have many problems with my XP desktop, but I don't have many problems with my Vista laptop either.

security nagging wouldn't bother me. it's the resource hogging that's bad enough in XP

[soonerboomer93]

vista is a bigger load, it's not that much harder on the resources then xp

the only time it does, is when it goes out and scans for media and the media sharing stuff that's in ultimate.


oh, and buying new software is just a part of any OS upgrade. Mac's can be the same way, there's only so much legacy software that can be supported

[King Crimson]

security nagging wouldn't bother me. it's the resource hogging that's bad enough in XP

i ain't no expert, but that's about how i feel. i'm happy to use vista on computers the university employs people to fix, maintain, etc. on the ones i've paid money for......i'm sticking with xp for now.

[NormanPride]

Another weird bug: whenever I change a file extension, it gives me the usual stuff about how it may become unusable, then when I click okay, suddenly I have a selection box going. What the heck?

Oh, and jkm, Wii > PS3 > XBAWKS ;)

[GrapevineSooner]

Well, there's a reason WHY they call it beta-testing. ;)

Better for a small group of about, say, 10 or 20 users to run into these issues as opposed to 10,000. :D

It does seem silly that they're giving you an ultimatum to switch as opposed to testing to see if it's beneficial for the company to migrate, or to see if it would be too cost prohibitive.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Another weird bug: whenever I change a file extension, it gives me the usual stuff about how it may become unusable, then when I click okay, suddenly I have a selection box going. What the heck?

Oh, and jkm, Wii > PS3 > XBAWKS ;)

definite proof there is a loose nut behind the keyboard

[BigRedJed]

I have 10 machines. One is running Vista, the rest XP. I plan to keep it that way for as long as possible. In fact, I have considered blowing out Vista and installing XP on the one machine (a laptop, and naturally it's the one I use at home). Absolutely can't stand it.

[BigRedJed]

Not that I'm a discriminating technophile. All I know is that I have had tons of problems with drivers, etc., and I can't stand the GUI. I'm much more comfortable in XP. Oh, and XP is a lot more stable with a proprietary software I run.

[Sooner_Havok]

I have 10 machines. One is running Vista, the rest XP. I plan to keep it that way for as long as possible. In fact, I have considered blowing out Vista and installing XP on the one machine (a laptop, and naturally it's the one I use at home). Absolutely can't stand it.

Yeah, good luck with getting Vista off a machine. I had to wipe my buddies hard drive just to get vista to die. We literally had to pull his hard drive, plug it into his portable hard drive, hook that up to his MacBook (Only because it was the only other computer we had in the house, not because Mac is better) and reformat the drive. We tried just plopping the XP cd in and going about it that way, windows said "**** you, you can't bedowngrade vistas!"

[bluedogok]

i'm thinking Vista is the new ME
That's pretty accurate......

I have one Vista computer at home, a HTPC that I built a month and a half ago, no big issues just a bunch of annoying crap to deal with, the other 6 computers have XP Pro on them. I am thinking about building a new rendering computer at home and seriously thinking about just going with XP-64 on it.

We have recently bought two new computers at work, both Dual-CPU Quad Core2 Xeons with 8gb of RAM and mid range rendering cards (still around 8K per box) and we cannot get the XP or SBS2003 to communicate with them, they can't even communicate with each other. They can speak but not hear to the others and this has affected how we are processing animations right now since we can't use Backburner with our two "most powerful" machines. The ironic thing is, I can render the same scene faster on my computer (Quad Core2 w/ 4gb of RAM) than the new Vista boxes can. The knuckleheads in Indy haven't pulled the group policy cap off the Vista boxes yet to see if we can get them to communicate, we are about ready to go to XP-64 on them.

[Sooner_Havok]

I honestly think that MS rushed the hell out of Vista because Mac OS was getting a lot of praise for its forward thinking and what not. Bill can't have that, so he puts together a ****-fest of an OS so he can say "See, we had this stuff in windows first!"

Funny thing is, I really think Vista rushed leopard, cause Steve sat back and said "Ha, Bill fell on his face, hurry, get that new OS out ASAP so we can rub Bill's face in this!"

End result, two OS's that are less stable than their predecessors. LAME!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

havok, microsoft doesn't rush anything because of a competitor (or anything for that matter) - in 6 years i have never once seen a date pushed forward, but i've seen a ton slip. vista is a product of their culture - its difficult to explain why without having been immersed in it for a period of time.

[Vaevictis]

"We know what you want, whether you like it or not" doesn't seem like such a bad way to describe it.

From the outside, anyway.

[yermom]

Yeah, good luck with getting Vista off a machine. I had to wipe my buddies hard drive just to get vista to die. We literally had to pull his hard drive, plug it into his portable hard drive, hook that up to his MacBook (Only because it was the only other computer we had in the house, not because Mac is better) and reformat the drive. We tried just plopping the XP cd in and going about it that way, windows said "**** you, you can't bedowngrade vistas!"

XP has some picky boot sector thing it does, i have had to format a drive with a Win2k setup disk to get XP setup to run after installing Linux on a machine

[Sooner_Havok]

XP has some picky boot sector thing it does, i have had to format a drive with a Win2k setup disk to get XP setup to run after installing Linux on a machine

Well, all we had was one copy of Vista, one copy of XP, one copy of Ubuntu, a Mac, and a portable hard drive. We just really didn't know what else to do after Vista told us to "**** off dip ****!"

[soonerboomer93]

i just reloaded vista ultimate

only problem i have is a goofy issue with visual safe source for visual studio 2005. it's a known issue, and we'll be upgrading to visual studio 2008 soonish...

honestly, there is a perfonamnce difference between running vista on this box and running xp on it. vista runs faster, it has more advanced options, my blue tooth doesn't go ****ty on my when i'm trying to connect. the new windows mobile device center blows away active sync.

big performance difference in being able to run the sata in achi and not ata

this is a dell m1330 laptop, 2.2ghz duo core 2 processors, 4 gb's of ram (xp wasn't utilizing it all) and a 200gb 7200 rpm 16mb cache drive.

[soonerboomer93]

oh, and jed, the custom software is your problem, your coders need to update it to make sure it runs on vista.

i mean, software always has issues with any new os. be it windows or a mac version. providing backwards compatability is a nice feature, but it also makes the os bloated

[yermom]

Well, all we had was one copy of Vista, one copy of XP, one copy of Ubuntu, a Mac, and a portable hard drive. We just really didn't know what else to do after Vista told us to "**** off dip ****!"

i'm just sayin' it might have been XP not Vista that was the problem there

i'll have to remember the Mac thing

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I know nothing of the problems you speak of. I just got hired as the IT dude for a company that uses windows 2k...yippee!

[BigRedJed]

oh, and jed, the custom software is your problem, your coders need to update it to make sure it runs on vista.

i mean, software always has issues with any new os. be it windows or a mac version. providing backwards compatability is a nice feature, but it also makes the os bloated
Well, I don't disagree with that, but the software is extremely basic. He did adapt it for Vista, but I still think it should have been easier. And regarding backwards compatibility, it still should have supported peripherals, right? I had a couple of really simple devices, including a USB to serial adapter, that no longer worked once I put them with the Vista machine. The new drivers weren't available for months.

And none of this addresses the suckass GUI.

[soonerboomer93]

it's no microsoft's responsability to make sure all device drivers are ready. they do the most basic/popular, but then provide information months in advance to hardware manufacturers.

do you have any idea how many manufacturers there are out there? some making good products, some making **** with basically no one writing their drivers?

[BigRedJed]

IT SHOULD ALL WORK WHEN I PLUG IT IN!!!

[soonerboomer93]

doesn't work, not that way with any of the operating systems

[BigRedJed]

THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT IT SHOULD!!!

[BigRedJed]

Listen, I understand what you're saying. All that I'm saying is that I've had every Windows OS since 3.1, and "upgrading" to CPUs with Vista has been more difficult than any of them. In fact, I have never had problems with peripherals like I have with this OS.

That said, I admittedly have more devices and more specialized software than any time in the past. I know that contributes to the problem.

[soonerboomer93]

oh, i understand that

but Vista is a major change, they made a lot of consumer centric changes, and frankly is better suited for new hardware then old hardware. The fact that they put out 4 different versions wasn't the best idea. Windows ultimate = mui beuno. Vista home, i would avoid, and would go home ultimate at the worst or business. Frankly, I would be just fine with microsoft making windows 7 incompatable with any software that wasn't atleast XP approved or even vista approved. I also wouldn't have a problem if they got rid of a lot more of the hardware support then they have. The new widgets and gadgets do make it more bloated, but so does making everything so backwards compatable.

Oh, and Diablo II, runs just fine on vista, that's an ancient piece of software :D

[soonerboomer93]

However, adobe acrobat 7 won't run right on vista, they had a similar problem with acrobat 8 on vista. They fixed acrobat 8 and told version 7 users to "buy the new version"

both ps elements 5 and 6 are both vista compatable

software developers are as much to blame as ms imho

[soonerboomer93]

of course, it doesn't hurt that ps elements is a consumer software, where acrobat is a business software

atleast that's how i would catagorize them

[soonerboomer93]

ooh, look, minijed imitation post flood

[soonerboomer93]

how you like them apples jed? :D

[soonerboomer93]

yeah, that's what i thought :D

[soonerboomer93]

anyone wanna find me a IP66 capable pdt with barcode scanner?

[soonerboomer93]

and answer my emails

[soonerboomer93]

i slept 3 hours, so today will be a long day

but i can sleep on the 4 hour drive back to houston, maybe

[soonerboomer93]

it's a non it, IT thread

[soonerboomer93]

i guess i should pack up the stuff in the hotel though

[soonerboomer93]

and is it bad the apology flowers may not have worked?

[soonerboomer93]

but then, bitches be crazy, so they probably worked, she just doesn't want to tell me until she's damn good and ready

[soonerboomer93]

time to pack though

[BigRedJed]

Bah. A pale imitation.

[BigRedJed]

The secret is to have a conversation with yourself, rather than just breaking up one post into a bunch of separate posts.

[BigRedJed]

Then again, maybe it's not.

[soonerboomer93]

i almost forgot my columbia flip flops

(made in china, bought in shanghai)

[soonerboomer93]

you just had to let me warm up, slappy

[soonerboomer93]

but now, time ot shut down and go eat my bagel at the breakfast buffet

[soonerboomer93]

and my shaving looks like crap, because i'm regrowing the goatee

[BigRedJed]

See, that's really just IT-style posting in a different thread. You need practice.

[soonerboomer93]

perhaps

[soonerboomer93]

but then i pretty much only post in the IT

[soonerboomer93]

so you bitches should be greatful i'm blessing you with my presence

[soonerboomer93]

actually, i haven't really been posting in the IT either

[soonerboomer93]

maybe the ingrates need to pickup the entertainment factor

[soonerboomer93]

and dammit, lack of sleep

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

"We know what you want, whether you like it or not" doesn't seem like such a bad way to describe it.

From the outside, anyway.

while the final outcome may seem that way, it doesn't start out anywhere near that. i think the best way to describe it is like the human telephone game. it starts out correct, but by the time it passes through all the layers, it isn't anywhere near what it started out to be.

[MR2-Sooner86]

The ONLY reason I'd use Vista is for Direct X 10. However, I don't game on my computer that much so it's not that important. XP is the better choice but if I had to pick I'd pick OS X over XP. True, more applications run with Windows but now there's bootcamp so that's no longer a problem.

[soonerboomer93]

if you don't mind paying way too much for hardware, that you're just going to turn around and run windows on, then yeah, mac's are great

(oh, and I thought a security site just ran some test, base loads of the newest OS X, win vista, and a popular linux build, OS X was breached first)

i did consider a mac, then realized it won't run most of the software I need, so I would just have to load up vista or xp

[MR2-Sooner86]

if you don't mind paying way too much for hardware, that you're just going to turn around and run windows on, then yeah, mac's are great

If I was just going to run windows I'd go and get an Alienware.


(oh, and I thought a security site just ran some test, base loads of the newest OS X, win vista, and a popular linux build, OS X was breached first)

Well Linux should be thrown out as it's open source. Also, what do most viruses target? Windows. Most hackers don't go after computers that only have 7% of the market.


i did consider a mac, then realized it won't run most of the software I need, so I would just have to load up vista or xp

Seeing as how I use a MAC at school for all my video, sound, and visual editing it wouldn't be a big jump for me. I'd just need XP or Vista for the few things I need them for.

[badger]

lol @ vista :D

NP would agree that the only thing good for Vista computers is sitting in the closet with a little missile firing application for unsuspecting people wanting to use Vista. It's negative reinforcement, but I hear it works :D

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

lol @ vista :D

NP would agree that the only thing good for Vista computers is sitting in the closet with a little missile firing application for unsuspecting people wanting to use Vista. It's negative reinforcement, but I hear it works :D

did the people at deloitte consulting code your humor program?

[Vaevictis]

while the final outcome may seem that way, it doesn't start out anywhere near that. i think the best way to describe it is like the human telephone game. it starts out correct, but by the time it passes through all the layers, it isn't anywhere near what it started out to be.

Fair enough. I can see how that would happen in a big *** organization like MS.

Too bad they don't have someone like Steve Jobs who will cry, beg, cane, bribe, fire, hire, etc, to get that **** back in line if it doesn't meet exactly what's expected.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Fair enough. I can see how that would happen in a big *** organization like MS.

Too bad they don't have someone like Steve Jobs who will cry, beg, cane, bribe, fire, hire, etc, to get that **** back in line if it doesn't meet exactly what's expected.

while the company is big, the orgs are not. for most products, i'll guarantee you there isn't more than 4 or 5 layers between the customer and the developer. this is the best way i can think to describe the process - human telephone game style

subject josh heupel
customer - OU fan
salesperson/product guy - pokey fan
business analyst - texas fan
it analyst - kansas state fan
developer - florida state fan

it isn't just that you are dealing with communication from one layer to another, its that you are also dealing with agendas from one person to the other. you couple that with the typical business issues of poor requirements documentation, prioritization, budgeting, reorgs, etc. and you begin to see why things end up how they end up.

[Sooner_Havok]

if you don't mind paying way too much for hardware, that you're just going to turn around and run windows on, then yeah, mac's are great

(oh, and I thought a security site just ran some test, base loads of the newest OS X, win vista, and a popular linux build, OS X was breached first)

i did consider a mac, then realized it won't run most of the software I need, so I would just have to load up vista or xp

First, I am sick and tired of this whole "apples are soooo over priced for what you get."

Really?

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/Picture2.png
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/Picture1.png

Guess what? The baseline Mac has a bigger screen, and a faster CPU.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/Picture3.png
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/Picture4.png

Got me there. The baseline MacBook with a smaller screen but faster CPU is $50 more.

And second, I saw something about that security thing, but oddly enough they never said leopard, just OS X. Well, OS X has been out for a long time now.

[King Crimson]

i don't know, i researched buying a macbook vs. getting another PC laptop pretty recently and i found the difference nearly always--for similar specs*--to be about 400$ between a 1000$ Dell and roughly 1400 for a comparable mac.

when you look at as % cost that's about 30-35% diff. the combo drive on the mac is pretty weak, i don't think it writes DVD's and you kinda pay out the wazzo for 2G of RAM on the mac. while the PC adding RAM is no thing and the drive is comparable to the mac upgrade.

i like macs and still have an old imac in my office, but for my needs i felt i could spend the 400$ differently. like buy a new stereo amp. ftw.

[Stoop Dawg]

Fair enough. I can see how that would happen in a big *** organization like MS.

Too bad they don't have someone like Steve Jobs who will cry, beg, cane, bribe, fire, hire, etc, to get that **** back in line if it doesn't meet exactly what's expected.

I don't use Macs, so I don't feel qualified to "bash" them. But from a non-tech perspective, if Macs (and Steve Jobs) really are superior, then they (he) are doing a terrible job of turning their advantage into sales.

As far as I know, their latest ploy to increase sales is to do the very things they have bashed MS for: support 3rd party hardware and run Windows OSs.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Apple" becomes just another "Dell".

[Stoop Dawg]

First, I am sick and tired of this whole "apples are soooo over priced for what you get."

Really?

Yeah, but you need to add the price of a Windows OS to the Mac box (assuming you want any useful applications). ;)

[yermom]

i don't know, i researched buying a macbook vs. getting another PC laptop pretty recently and i found the difference nearly always--for similar specs*--to be about 400$ between a 1000$ Dell and roughly 1400 for a comparable mac.

when you look at as % cost that's about 30-35% diff. the combo drive on the mac is pretty weak, i don't think it writes DVD's and you kinda pay out the wazzo for 2G of RAM on the mac. while the PC adding RAM is no thing and the drive is comparable to the mac upgrade.

i like macs and still have an old imac in my office, but for my needs i felt i could spend the 400$ differently. like buy a new stereo amp. ftw.

upgrades from Apple are not cheap. you should get RAM somewhere else, same with Dell though.

my Apple laptops have been a lot more durable than my PC laptops. they don't seem to age as badly either. i can barely stand to use my ~3 year old Dells to run XP anymore, but my G4 Powerbook does everything i need it to, other than run the Intel specific software

still, i'd have a hard time paying for an Apple if i was buying it personally

[yermom]

Yeah, but you need to add the price of a Windows OS to the Mac box (assuming you want any useful applications). ;)

unless you have specific needs, the Mac will do most things a Windows box will

the only things i need Windows for is some games and Outlook. maybe Access if i was into that. i'm not a big fan Access in general though

what do you consider "useful"?

[King Crimson]

the biggest bust of a computer i ever bought was a G3 powerbook. it was always doing weird stuff, freezing, crashes, etc. i spent 2000$ on that thing, and it was always problematic. i think was unlucky, but still.

the best computer i ever bought is the Dell desktop i'm using now. it's 5 years old, never had any significant problems. i was a straight up mac guy until then...and i know OS 10 is the bomb, but that's my experience. i don't like Microsoft anymore than anyone else, but you stick with what works.

and hey yermom, if you have an opinion....what do you think of ubuntu?

any experience with it? how user friendly is it for someone with basic computing skills....i'm not looking to tinker with code or write hacks or become the next gnu project...just for day to day using?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

unless you have specific needs, the Mac will do most things a Windows box will

the only things i need Windows for is some games and Outlook. maybe Access if i was into that. i'm not a big fan Access in general though

what do you consider "useful"?

you know they have office for mac right? :O

i was in that group

[yermom]

the biggest bust of a computer i ever bought was a G3 powerbook. it was always doing weird stuff, freezing, crashes, etc. i spent 2000$ on that thing, and it was always problematic. i think was unlucky, but still.

the best computer i ever bought is the Dell desktop i'm using now. it's 5 years old, never had any significant problems. i was a straight up mac guy until then...and i know OS 10 is the bomb, but that's my experience. i don't like Microsoft anymore than anyone else, but you stick with what works.

and hey yermom, if you have an opinion....what do you think of ubuntu?

any experience with it? how user friendly is it for someone with basic computing skills....i'm not looking to tinker with code or write hacks or become the next gnu project...just for day to day using?


i still prefer Fedora but i'm running my domain on Ubuntu at the moment. i had a lot of problems getting it installed, it seems a bit picky on hardware to me. i'm more of a Redhat guy, so Ubuntu is a bit weird to me anyway. the community support is pretty good though

day to day desktop stuff it should be ok. it's still kind of a bitch to get newer wireless cards to work in Linux in general though. i still just use an old PCMCIA care for wireless most of the time

oh, and G3's were kinda teh suck. just a bit outside of what would really run OS X. anything i had with a G4 running 10.1 or later was always good

[BigRedJed]

jkm is in your computerz, reedin' your Excel spredsheetz.

[yermom]

you know they have office for mac right? :O

i was in that group

i hope you aren't talking about Entourage...

do they have Access too?

i haven't installed MS Office in years at this point. Open Office does just about anything i need to do.

i use NeoOffice on my Mac, it's great

[Ike]

i haven't installed MS Office in years at this point. Open Office does just about anything i need to do.

i use NeoOffice on my Mac, it's great

Ditto...

I have noticed that sometimes, OO or NeoOffice have trouble rendering the fonts used on some powerpoint thingys and such...but usually, it's no big deal...

I've been using a macbook for about a year now. I don't want to have to go back to windows. I like it.

[bluedogok]

If I was just going to run windows I'd go and get an Alienware.
Pretty much nothing but a Dell now. I build my own for the most part, I did buy myself an HP laptop and my wife a base Compaq. My HP was about $800 less than the top of the line MacBook when the MacIntels came out (THE week they came out) and it had more of everything at the time. At the office we use Dell Precisions and have trying to talk them into buying Boxx Technologies (http://www.boxxtech.com/) workstations and render nodes since they are made for that type of work. They are also based about a mile from our office, Dell is all the way up in Round Rock. Of course, since Dell is closing their assembly plant here, it will probably take more than a few days to get them.


unless you have specific needs, the Mac will do most things a Windows box will
Macs won't run Autodesk products, Revit, AutoCad and 3dsMax is what I use and Acad hasn't run on Macs since Release 11 (around 1991), Revit and 3D Studio never have.

[RacerX]

I hate brussel sprouts.

[yermom]

Macs won't run Autodesk products, Revit, AutoCad and 3dsMax is what I use and Acad hasn't run on Macs since Release 11 (around 1991), Revit and 3D Studio never have.

i didn't say it would run everything :D

i'd bet a Mac Pro would rock that **** running XP though

[soonerboomer93]

tell me when the put visual studio, sql and outlook back on the mac

then we might chat


oh, and havok

most prebuilt machines are over priced, i build my own boxes other then laptops.

http://www.psystar.com/psystar_openmac_osx86_reinventing_the_wheel.html

edit: psystar might be a hoax (not validated either way yet), but the information, as far as basic build cost should be correct

[bluedogok]

Psystar will suffer the fate that all Apple clones have faced, being sued out of existence by Apple.

Really, Apple is no different than any other business out there and may even be worse since they want iron fisted control over what constitutes an "Apple platform". People wonder why Apple never took control of the computer market when it was theirs for the taking, it was the same reason why Beta didn't win the VCR war. Both were greedy and wanted to control the market, but those that licensed to a wider market won while the vertically integrated failed to make the market theirs even if they did have a better product. It is also easier to understand why OSX would be a more stable OS, it is made to one standard and the equipment and OS are designed to work each other. It doesn't have to accommodate millions of different hardware combinations like Windows or even Linux faces.

[yermom]

is Apple pitching jobs to India right now?

i'm pretty happy using my Mac that no one seems to want to write viruses for and that runs more stable since it doesn't have to account for lots of different hardware

i kinda like it that they haven't taken over like MS has

[bluedogok]

Not India, China...that is where both of my iPods were made.

You have to admit, 25+ years ago the market was there for Apples taking. If the Lisa platform had taken off and been licensed, I think it would have been an Apple world. Licensing and clones are what built the Win-Tel duopoly.

[BigRedJed]

That and the fact that Jobs insisted on his OS being platform-specific. Wanted to get both the equipment AND the software sale and wound up getting a lot of neither. Just like Sony did with Betamax.

[Vaevictis]

Except Apple tried the whole clone route, and failed utterly.

Apple's strategy doesn't work without complete vertical integration. It's just the way it is.

[Stoop Dawg]

unless you have specific needs, the Mac will do most things a Windows box will

the only things i need Windows for is some games and Outlook. maybe Access if i was into that. i'm not a big fan Access in general though

what do you consider "useful"?

Well, let's start with "required" software for my job:

Visual Studio 2005/2008
SQL Server 2005
Red-Gate SQL Backup
Red-Gate SQL Compare
SonicWall VPN Client
remote desktop (so I can manage company servers remotely)
Internet Explorer & FireFox (need both so I can test web sites)
Delphi 7 (for legacy apps)
Visual FoxPro (for legacy apps)
Visual SourceSafe (client)

Now let's move to "useful":

MS Office (I could probably use OpenOffice if I wanted)
Synergy
World of Warcraft (though, not so much any more)
Battlefield 2142 (not so much anymore)


I realize that my requirements may not be "typical", but who is "typical"? I guess there are quite a few people who just need Internet/Email/Office, and for them I'm sure OS doesn't matter. But even my "hobbyist" brother-in-law who loves Macs admits that he dual-boots XP so he can use a few photo editing apps that he likes better. Also, he just sent his new (less than 1 year old) Mac in for repairs for the second time. I'm not sure what the problem is, I get it all second hand from my wife. Again, I'm not saying Macs suck, but they're not perfect either.

[Stoop Dawg]

Except Apple tried the whole clone route, and failed utterly.

Apple's strategy doesn't work without complete vertical integration. It's just the way it is.


i'm pretty happy using my Mac that no one seems to want to write viruses for and that runs more stable since it doesn't have to account for lots of different hardware

Personally, I think that's a great niche for Apple. While they aren't the "dominant" player, they certainly have a loyal - even fanatical - user base.

[Sooner_Havok]

I like the fact the Apple controls every aspect of my computer. They build the things, and then they make the OS to go with what they built. Windows just kind of seems like Ford, Dodge, and Chevy buying engines from Suzuki to power their vehicles. I will give you that Apple customers pay a premium for the product they get, but so do Sony, Gateway, and AlienWare users. You get what you pay for though. I don't think even the most ardent windows user would say that a $400 Dell is equivalent to a $1400 AlienWare.

As far as upgrades go, upgrading a Mac is not hard at all. You want more ram, a bigger hard drive, that can be done pretty easily. The thing to remember though is that while power pc Macs kind of ran of ram, the intels are not as inclined. OS X running on 1 gig of ram would be about the same as the clumsy Vista running on 2 gigs

[SicEmBaylor]

Aside from when I play games, I've managed to nearly totally wean myself from Vista. I'm running Ubuntu which was, by far, the easiest Linux distro I've ever installed. I only had one hardware issue arise, and it ended up being a pretty easy fix.

[King Crimson]

Aside from when I play games, I've managed to nearly totally wean myself from Vista. I'm running Ubuntu which was, by far, the easiest Linux distro I've ever installed. I only had one hardware issue arise, and it ended up being a pretty easy fix.

i still use XP and only use Vista on university owned computers. i also have tinkered with Ubuntu and like what i see. probably make the switch on all my machines over the summer.