Oh ****ing great....

[BudSooner]

Oil sets new record high above $113.


:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


If it weren't on the other side of town, I would get a bike to ride to work.
This sucks.

[r5TPsooner]

I really feel bad for those who use diesel fuel in there vehicles.

[kbsooner21]

Ride the bus

[Curly Bill]

...but just think if you owned a couple of oil wells how happy you'd be. :P

[NormanPride]

I carpool with badger, and it's the best thing ever.

[BudSooner]

Ride the bus

Bus service on this side of town is pathetic, to get near a bus stop you must walk close to a mile away. And then there is the issue of the bus getting there on time.

Meh, in 1 1/2 months it won't matter anyway since I won't have a need to go to the shop unless it's to pick up parts, that should be the beginning of my home start program...driving a company vehicle has it's perks.

[soonerboomer93]

time to increase the service rates

[yermom]

until people decide it sucks to drive 30+ minutes to work, it's not really going to change

where's Jed? :P

[swardboy]

The Bakken oil reserve is now estimated at about 3.5 billion barrels (North Dakota). Some were thinking it would come in at 200 billion barrels. While 3.5 billion is nothing to sneeze at, the 200b number would have changed everything for the better. As I understand it, it's under a lake in N.D., and horizontal drilling has made feasible to go for....that plus the ungodly price of oil today....

[tommieharris91]

I really feel bad for those who use diesel fuel in there vehicles.

And on top of this news, inflation this month was higher than expected. I wonder why...?

[Curly Bill]

And on top of this news, inflation this month was higher than expected. I wonder why...?

I'm not sure but I bet either Hillary or Obama are to blame. :D

[OklahomaRed]

It's going to the highest bidder. The oil companies are typical corporate for profit owned companies that are going to sell to the highest bidder. The issue is the fact that you have other countries coming on line with their economies (i.e. China, South America, India, Africa). Their demand is starting to push into the US's demand for oil. Thus the erosion of the US dollar to match the world market. The only answer is to either pay more, use less (which the price will still remain high as long as world demand stays high), or come up with alternative energy sources (you see where the dude that started Greenpeace now says nuclear energy is okay). The US mistake is to think that we can still control the world economy like we did 10 years ago. Not going to happen. The best thing we can do is attempt to stay one step ahead of everyone, or get ready to go the way of France and Europe and start forming alliances with other countries on an economical level.

[tommieharris91]

I'm not sure but I bet either Hillary or Obama are to blame. :D

I blame all politicians for everything. I wanna make them get me rich and I don't wanna pay no taxes!!

[tommieharris91]

It's going to the highest bidder. The oil companies are typical corporate for profit owned companies that are going to sell to the highest bidder. The issue is the fact that you have other countries coming on line with their economies (i.e. China, South America, India, Africa). Their demand is starting to push into the US's demand for oil. Thus the erosion of the US dollar to match the world market. The only answer is to either pay more, use less (which the price will still remain high as long as world demand stays high), or come up with alternative energy sources (you see where the dude that started Greenpeace now says nuclear energy is okay). The US mistake is to think that we can still control the world economy like we did 10 years ago. Not going to happen. The best thing we can do is attempt to stay one step ahead of everyone, or get ready to go the way of France and Europe and start forming alliances with other countries on an economical level.

Please, preytell how you come to the conclusion that more oil demand overseas is causing the US$ to depreciate.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The just finished loading a tanker here, I think it was 1.3 million barrels. Heading to California I believe.

[Jerk]

We should drill for our own oil and build more refineries...but our own government seems to get in the way...why is that?

[BigRedJed]

High oil prices are eventually going to make people re-examine where they live, and how they get to work. Lots of people will move closer to the center of communities, which will cut the infrastructure cost for cities, allowing for better quality of life. Other people will use public transit, or find jobs closer to home, or telecommute, etc. Some people will choose vehicles with better fuel economy. All of these things will to some extent reduce fuel consumption, which will have positive enviromental effects.
High oil prices are especially good for the economy in Oklahoma, and specifically Oklahoma City.
I live downtown, work downtown, and when I drive I'm either in a company vehicle with a corporate gas card, or I'm on my scooter, which gets 80+ MPG.I hope oil goes to $200/barrel.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

BRJ - I do think you are correct, the insurgence of inside the beltway living is beginning and living in the city will become the norm. Suburban living I belive will be on the wane.

[BigRedJed]

BRJ - I do think you are correct, the insurgence of inside the beltway living is beginning and living in the city will become the norm. Suburban living I belive will be on the wane.
Yeah, the suburban lifestyle is just not sustainable. I mean, it has been around for over half a century, but at what cost? It has been subsidized for years through a number of means, including billions in income tax dollars that pay for national defense (needed to protect our oil interests in the middle east). In the case of a city like Oklahoma City that is very spread out, people who live in the inner city and consume far fewer resources (there is an economy of scale for roads, emergency services and the like), and yet they pay for spread-out services in far-flung parts of the city. All a result of bad planning and a mid-century snowjob that convinced everyone that suburban life was "the American Dream."

I could go on and on about how expensive our car culture is in many, many ways (most of which have nothing to do with the environment or spending money on gas).

Lots of people are waking up to the idea that suburban living can be a pretty empty existence, and people moving downtown (all over the country) is an example of the current generation of adults rejecting their parents' idea of said "American Dream." This was happening before oil became outrageous, and high fuel prices will only hasten the migration.

I think America will look like a pretty different place in another couple of decades.

[BigRedJed]

And when I say "moving downtown," I really just mean moving into the center of a community, where goods, services, employment etc. are close by and convenient. It doesn't have to be in a super-dense urban environment, although the logical extreme is to be able to walk to work, to the store, to the coffee shop, to the doctor.

But there are lots of ways to skin a cat. Living in a near-center historic neighborhood with yards, sidewalks, and all of the charm of the ORIGINAL suburbs (without a lot of the suburban blight and mindless, unneccessary sprawl) is one way that might be more palatable to some. Living in a "new urbanist" part of town, with new construction, denser buildings, connected services and transit links is another method. Places like Mockingbird Station in Dallas are an example of this. There are far better examples, but that's one a lot of people on this board have probably been exposed to.

[def_lazer_fc]

i still get a gov't tax break for buying the biggest hummer my dumb *** can find though, right?

[Sooner_Havok]

Yeah, and god forbid okc ever build an adequate mass transit system.


If we build this road right here, it will end all possibility of using the downtown rail station as a light rail hub.


And your point is? Oklahoma city will never need rail travel, not as long as we keep building bigger, crappier roads.

[12]

OKC metro is large (read: EXPANSIVE) enough to support one should people hand over the reigns to someone else driving them around.

Unfortunately, so many of the jobs in the area won't allow that type of confinement.

[Sooner_Havok]

Hell, you know how many cars could be taken off the roads with ONE line gowing from Edmond through OKC to Norman?

[12]

It would take a MAJOR culture change in OKC metro. People aren't going to give up that freedom easily. I think it would be a good idea, but it will take a massive movement/change to occure.

[BigRedJed]

A surprising number of people have adapted in Dallas and other sprawling cities with a car-crazy culture similar to OKC. Of course, the thing that makes Dallas different is sheer population size and at least a bit of traffic congestion. That's the knock on OKC; we don't have nearly as much of either. And that is what will make transit rail a tough sell in OKC.

That and the fact that the Mayor and others are on record as saying places like Edmond and Norman would have to participate in the cost of transit rail to those cities. The reasoning is that they would benefit as much or more than OKC, in that it would make it more convenient/appealing to live in those places, taking more income earned in OKC and transferring it to the bedroom communities' tax base.

What you are most likely to see as a part of MAPS III is a light rail circulator in the downtown/midtown area, and possibly some commuter rail to some parts of OKC. If bedroom communities want to trade on their proximity to OKC and add to their own list of amenities by creating a rail link to the city, they'd better be ready to pony up.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Heh. It'd make gazzillions if the rail would go to Newcastle and Riverwind Casinos.

[Sooner_Havok]

thing is, OKC already screwed up the best chance at putting in a light rail dept by rerouting I-40 where they did

[BigRedJed]

You've been reading too many e-mails from Tom Elmore.

I understand what Tom/you are getting at regarding the existing rail infrastructure, but if OKC does light rail, we would want the terminal to be more centrally located than Union Station/COPTA.

[Mixer!]

I thought light rail service was part of the original MAPS package. If so, what happened there?

[Sooner_Havok]

You've been reading too many e-mails from Tom Elmore.

I understand what Tom/you are getting at regarding the existing rail infrastructure, but if OKC does light rail, we would want the terminal to be more centrally located than Union Station/COPTA.

Yeah, I'll give you that much. Still, why wait till we can't live without it, why not use a little foresight and just do it now while the state is still doing reasonably well you know.

[Sooner_Havok]

I thought light rail service was part of the original MAPS package. If so, what happened there?

I think it was for those trolley/bus things

[royalfan5]

Maybe it's time to we quite messing around, and got cracking on macking teleportation a reality.

[Sooner_Havok]

dude, I saw that episode of Enterprise were that one guy got merged with some trees and ****! You test that for me first, alright.

[BigRedJed]

I thought light rail service was part of the original MAPS package. If so, what happened there?
The city had around 3 million of the original MAPS funds dedicated to a trolley circulator in downtown CONTINGENT UPON receiving federal grant money (I want to say it was around $15-18 million, but I've slept since then).

The federal transportation grant money was considered to be pretty much a lead-pipe cinch, with the local matching funds (provided by MAPS) and considering Oklahoma's long status as a federal transportation donor state (meaning we pay more in transit dollars to the feds than we get back from them).

Enter Ernest Istook, then a newish U.S. Congressman, and an avowed rail hater. Istook sat on the House Transportation Subcommittee, and he made a lowest-common-denominator populist vote-grab. He killed the funding, while doing a bunch of bull**** grandstanding, telling everyone how he was making a tough stand to kill pork and save taxpayers millions of dollars, even at the sake of his own hometown, if necessary.

He of course counted on voters not being astute enough to understand that he hadn't saved taxpayers a dime; he had just cleared the way for another state to get the same money. See, his committee was charged with divvying up money that was ALREADY ALLOCATED to the federal transportation budget. Therefore, money that we turned our back on (or, more precisely, ISTOOK turned his back on) just went somewhere else.

Oh, and the district that lost out wasn't even Ernest's. Don't think that didn't chap Frank Lucas' ***. AND ****ed off the leadership of Oklahoma City. A lot.

To make matters worse, Istook quietly turned around and supported a similar light rail circulator in Salt Lake City. A number of people suggested he did so because he is Mormon, and was asked to do it by his church, which was heavily involved in the organization of the 1996 Salt Lake Olympics. He denied this.

So anyway, OKC opted instead to purchase rubber-tire trolleys with the MAPS funds. All things considered, though, it might have been a bit of a blessing in disguise. I'm not sure we would have had any idea in the mid nineties where to place track for a light rail circulator. The rubber-tire trolley system's routes have been tweaked a number of times, and downtown's growth patterns are only now seeming to solidify. It might have been a spectacular failure if implemented a decade ago.

[Mixer!]

Ah yes, I remember now - thanks for the quick recap.

I now recall the "Istook takes his marching orders from SLC!" barbs that were being tossed around when he ran for governor. He was (IMO) a pee-poor congressman, but not because he was Mormon.

Still, I think a light rail system for the OKC area would merit a second look.

[BigRedJed]

Man, if that was a quick recap, I'd hate to see the detailed one. :D

[Sooner_Havok]

Ah yes, I remember now - thanks for the quick recap.

I now recall the "Istook takes his marching orders from SLC!" barbs that were being tossed around when he ran for governor. He was (IMO) a pee-poor congressman, but not because he was Mormon.

Still, I think a light rail system for the OKC area would merit a second look.

That is what I am thinking. Even a park and ride would be nice. I mean OKC is big, but areas of interest are small. One stop at say Santa Fe Station, one near OCU, one near Zoo, and a few others sprinkled in. Connect the biggest suburbs like Moore, Norman, Yukon, Edmond, and Midwest City and this thing could really work.

Yeah you make the Chickasaw kick in some money to get connections with the Casino, the burbs kick in to get their stations, and revenue is split between them. Not 1-1 mind you, OKC should reap the lions share of the profits but still.

[tommieharris91]

I think the Chickasaws would be all for the southernmost stop on this system to be at their casino.

I also think you could put a stop around the LNC and a lot of people would use that. This really might be feasible now for as small population-wise as the OKC area is just because the area is so spread out.

[Sooner_Havok]

I think the Chickasaws would be all for the southernmost stop on this system to be at their casino.

I also think you could put a stop around the LNC and a lot of people would use that. This really might be feasible now for as small population-wise as the OKC area is just because the area is so spread out.

My thoughts exactly! Why wait till we have no choice. Do it now and get people used to the idea that public transit can work.

[shaun4411]

if we had the kind of public transportation that they have in europe, we wouldnt much care about the price of oil

[MrJimBeam]

if we had the kind of public transportation that they have in europe, we wouldnt much care about the price of oil

Yeah, but then we'd be gay.

[olevetonahill]

Jed Ya done convinced me.
Im gonna move to a town sos I can be close to the things I need . Ya know Corn , Sugar , Yeast. the esentials .:D
hell with in a week Id be In jail or you city slickers would be Payin Me to Move back to the woods .
Just sayin

[XingTheRubicon]

18K for a tank load of oil (170 to 180 barrels). In 2005, a tank load was 5K.