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View Full Version : Obama, Hillary, "Bitter" and Elitism



JohnnyMack
4/14/2008, 03:19 PM
We haven't had any good political smacktalk for a while, so since we've got a debate this week and a primary next week, let's talk about Obama's comments. If you didn't see them, they are here:


Hereís how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesnít buy it. And when itís delivered by ó itís true that when itís delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter). [Ö]

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when thereís not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothingís replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So itís not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who arenít like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

I will say I think it's hilarious that someone who has made $107 million in the last 7 years, spent the 8 years before that living in the White House and before that resided in the Arkansas Governors mansion is going to call someone else elitist and out of touch. Thoughts?

C&CDean
4/14/2008, 03:30 PM
Nope. Not a thought at all - well other than I can't believe people are actually still considering voting for the bimbo or the islamo.

XFollower
4/14/2008, 03:33 PM
I always wondered why I worship God and have a personal artillery arsenal. Now I fully understand. Boy I hate the government.

Stoop Dawg
4/14/2008, 03:37 PM
Nope. Not a thought at all - well other than I can't believe people are actually still considering voting for the bimbo or the islamo.

Here's the scary thing: People like this get to vote in this country.

God help us. :(

C&CDean
4/14/2008, 03:39 PM
Yeah, God help us each and every one.

JohnnyMack
4/14/2008, 03:42 PM
Here's the scary thing: People like this get to vote in this country.

God help us. :(

Ignore him, he's just bitter and clinging to his gun*.



*Which knowing him may or may not be a coy euphemism that creates and unwanted visual image.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
4/14/2008, 03:45 PM
Nope. Not a thought at all - well other than I can't believe people are actually still considering voting for the bimbo socialimbo or the islamo socialislamo.Shame on you, Dean! NOT nice.

soonerscuba
4/14/2008, 04:01 PM
It was a dumb thing to say, but pretty much accurate in my observation. I do like the fact that he is sticking to his guns and not being a pansy like Gore and Kerry when it comes to this stuff. I think that if the Bush presidency has taught us anything, is that you take your swing and you don't back down, no matter how wrong you are and the American public will be convinced by your steadfastness. Sad, really. I used to want Hillary to be president just to watch Joe Six-pack in Noble, OK go mental, but Barack Obama has surpassed that dream, and I didn't know that it was possible. I guess I will wait for the gay Muslim who runs on the platform of outlawing trucks to top this.

PhilTLL
4/14/2008, 04:32 PM
I think it obviously came out poorly, but in a more general sense, there might be something to the idea that when people either reach that state of mind where they don't think anyone on any side has anything tangible (gov't services, job security, whatever) to offer them, just don't care about voting their material interests, or think it's less important than the fuzzy notion of "defending their way of life," they gravitate toward a certain type of thinking, targeted at them based on their cultural identity. "Psst. Vote for us or those damn godless abortionists will come and take your guns and make you gay-marry an illegal immigrant! Boo! Scary!"

There are a couple of books about this, Foxes in the Henhouse which is mostly just a political playbook by two Dem strategists, and What's the Matter with Kansas?, which is somewhat more conventional journalism/history analysis.

yermom
4/14/2008, 04:54 PM
he was talking about them clinging to religion or guns in reference to voting, right?

i mean why does the poor person vote for the Republican that's letting all of the decent jobs go overseas and allow big corporations to run the country?

George Bush doesn't care about poor people.

NormanPride
4/14/2008, 05:13 PM
It's nice to see a politician at least kind of mention the fact that they've failed a lot of the people in America. I'd say it's nice to hear a Democrat bash a Democrat president, but he's running against' that Democrat president's "wife" so it's probably just mudslinging.

Yeah, it came out wrong, but if you're not looking to antagonize the guy, his message is fairly clear. If he had left out the part past "bitter" the message would have been just as clear, though. I watched Fox News for 5 minutes at my grandmother's place, and they had approximately 15 orgasms over this gaffe of Obama's. Pathetic.

Harry Beanbag
4/14/2008, 05:30 PM
I think the point that Obama, Hillary, and the rest of the socialists in this country are missing is that the vast majority of people don't want or need the government to take care of them like helpless children, they want the government to leave them the **** alone and stay out of their bedrooms and wallets.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
4/14/2008, 05:44 PM
I think the point that Obama, Hillary, and the rest of the socialists in this country are missing is that the vast majority of people don't want or need the government to take care of them like helpless children, they want the government to leave them the **** alone and stay out of their bedrooms and wallets.So, what are we gonna get, Wild Johnny? Big Woop!

olevetonahill
4/14/2008, 05:52 PM
Ignore him, he's just bitter and clinging to his gun*.



*Which knowing him may or may not be a coy euphemism that creates and unwanted visual image.

This Is my weapon
this Is My gun
Ones fer fightin
the others fer Fun .

Jerk
4/14/2008, 06:07 PM
It was a dumb thing to say, but pretty much accurate in my observation. I do like the fact that he is sticking to his guns and not being a pansy like Gore and Kerry when it comes to this stuff. I think that if the Bush presidency has taught us anything, is that you take your swing and you don't back down, no matter how wrong you are and the American public will be convinced by your steadfastness. Sad, really. I used to want Hillary to be president just to watch Joe Six-pack in Noble, OK go mental, but Barack Obama has surpassed that dream, and I didn't know that it was possible. I guess I will wait for the gay Muslim who runs on the platform of outlawing trucks to top this.

Now that is bitter; voting for someone so he can fu** with other people's lives, like those dumb rednecks in small town Oklahoma. They're worthless people, right? Farmers, ranchers, mechanics, construction workers, et al, you know, the people who make this country RUN. I'm glad to know that most of them are armed to the teeth, and I'd like to see their reaction to someone ****ing their lives up over a political agenda that demands payback for bunch of ill-perceived 'injustices.'

There. That came out much better.

Sooner_Havok
4/14/2008, 06:36 PM
I think he has a point. The federal government has failed. So where does that leave these people? They CAN affect gun laws, the CAN affect local immigration laws, and they CAN affect local morality laws. Can they stop NAFTA? No. Can they stop the Fed's growing deficit? no. I can see where one might be drawn towards the things they can affect and away from the things they cannot. I do think that we should address the problem however, not the symptoms. Why has the government failed? has it failed because it remained small and never oversteps it's bounds, or has it failed because it has mushroomed and usurped all power and authority from the state governments?

Octavian
4/14/2008, 06:54 PM
general election toast....served burnt.

shaun4411
4/14/2008, 06:59 PM
um ya, we like our guns. what's the point?

Sooner_Havok
4/14/2008, 07:06 PM
general election toast....served burnt.

See, I don't think so. He didn't say "stupid hillbillies cling to their imaginary friend Jesus and their guns 'cause they is so dumb." although people who already hated the guy probably heard that.

He is saying he can understand why people fall into these attitudes. Hell, even Job got "bitter" after getting shat on constantly.

GottaHavePride
4/14/2008, 07:20 PM
What gaffe? Sounded like he was dead-on correct to me.

JohnnyMack
4/14/2008, 08:04 PM
Now I see that John "My wife is worth about $100 million" McCain who's spent the last 25 years as a Senator in D.C. wants to call someone else elitist.

This is fun.

achiro
4/14/2008, 09:34 PM
What gaffe? Sounded like he was dead-on correct to me.

Yep, you're right. ALL folks from small towns in the midwest are clinging to their guns and God because they are bitter. :rolleyes: Truth be told, I think there are a lot of folks from small communitites that have it figured out. They are happy, in fact much happier than many I know from larger cities that are running the rat race and keeping up with the Jones' day after day. They are close to their families, close to their freinds, and actually take time to help others. Yep, they trust and lean on God in bad times but believe it or not, in good times as well.

Jerk
4/14/2008, 09:44 PM
See, I don't think so. He didn't say "stupid hillbillies cling to their imaginary friend Jesus and their guns 'cause they is so dumb." although people who already hated the guy probably heard that.

He is saying he can understand why people fall into these attitudes. Hell, even Job got "bitter" after getting shat on constantly.

Instead of Obama believing that people have legitimate reasons to own guns or pursue religion, he believes people 'fall back' to them, as they're some sort of crutch and it blinds them from seeing the true light of mighty government there to help them.

In other words...

Religion is the opiate of the masses - Karl Marx

If people are waiting for their old job to come back 25 years after losing it, then they've lost their grasp of reality.

MR2-Sooner86
4/14/2008, 09:45 PM
When my read about Obama and Hillary I think about my friend, who's a political science major, when he explains the issue. Rather funny stuff really.


Lets make a scenerio, you own a business and you need a manager. Do you hire an older man with experience who has owned a successful buisness previously? Or do you hire the 17 year old blond headed petite chick, whose never had a job, because she says she'll blow you in the back everyday? Now some of you are asking, "WTF! does that have to do with the election?" Well, look at the cadidates on the democratic ticket and it will make sense.

:pop:

Anyway, I don't see how Obama, a shady person, gets people to blindly follow him.

Most liberal member in the senate? Ah he's not THAT liberal.
Racist preacher shoving that message down his throught for 20 years? That's not racist and the preacher was right but didn't word it correctly. Besides it wasn't THAT bad.
Friends with William Ayers? So what if he bombed some **** and Obama visited his house? He's not the one running for president.

:rolleyes:

JohnnyMack
4/14/2008, 09:48 PM
Instead of Obama believing that people have legitimate reasons to own guns or pursue religion, Obama believes people 'fall back' to them, as they're some sort of crutch and it blinds them from seeing the true light of mighty government there to help them.

In other words...

Religion is the opiate of the masses - Karl Marx

I think he was saying they lean on things they can in their minds trust. Those are things that haven't let those people down. I believe he was trying to point out that people, when they get to a certain point give up the notion of change and try and protect that which has been good/loyal to them.

Mixer!
4/14/2008, 10:29 PM
I think he was saying they lean on things they can in their minds trust. Those are things that haven't let those people down. I believe he was trying to point out that people, when they get to a certain point give up the notion of change and try and protect that which has been good/loyal to them.
I'm guessing that the fear is that anybody who (in the past) makes a statement like that translates it in their head into "we're going to start outlawing guns, and MAKE you see the error of your ways for not being a rational secular humanist!".

Our political system has devolved into 3-second soundbytes and "red state vs. blue state" memes - kinda like sports talk radio.

Sooner_Havok
4/14/2008, 11:23 PM
I think he was saying they lean on things they can in their minds trust. Those are things that haven't let those people down. I believe he was trying to point out that people, when they get to a certain point give up the notion of change and try and protect that which has been good/loyal to them.

What I am thinking. I don't think he implied that these things are bad, but that they are within the control of these people, unlike federal politics. Like I said, if the feds kept crapping on me, and God, white=people, and Smith and Wesson never let me down, I might be a little suspicious of the "Radical Muslim", Colored guy.

Condescending Sooner
4/15/2008, 09:16 AM
How many times are you guys going to have to explain away things Obama has said and done; " I feel what he meant was", before you realize he has some serious issues in a lot of people's eyes?

JohnnyMack
4/15/2008, 09:31 AM
God forbid we have a discussion about what our elected leaders say and do. God forbid a candidate talk about a tough issue instead glossing it over like all the other sunshine pumping sycophants.

achiro
4/15/2008, 10:03 AM
God forbid we have a discussion about what our elected leaders say and do. God forbid a candidate talk about a tough issue instead glossing it over like all the other sunshine pumping sycophants.

Who the fug are you talking about? Obama? Give me a break, he's glossing as hard and fast as any of them.

Here is the deal. "Small town America" just got confirmation from a pres candidate of what they think the "city folk" think of them. If you can't see that, regardless of who you want in the White House, then you really are not making decisions objectively.

Stoop Dawg
4/15/2008, 10:04 AM
Our political system has devolved into 3-second soundbytes and "red state vs. blue state" memes - kinda like this board.

Fixed.

JohnnyMack
4/15/2008, 10:59 AM
Here is the deal. "Small town America" just got confirmation from a pres candidate of what they think the "city folk" think of them. If you can't see that, regardless of who you want in the White House, then you really are not making decisions objectively.

Are you foolish enough to honestly think that ANY one of the three candidates gives a **** about small town America? :rolleyes:

achiro
4/15/2008, 11:04 AM
Are you foolish enough to honestly think that ANY one of the three candidates gives a **** about small town America? :rolleyes:

Did I say that?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

yermom
4/15/2008, 11:21 AM
I think the point that Obama, Hillary, and the rest of the socialists in this country are missing is that the vast majority of people don't want or need the government to take care of them like helpless children, they want the government to leave them the **** alone and stay out of their bedrooms and wallets.

it would be nice if they didn't let corporations sell us down the river though

soonerscuba
4/15/2008, 11:43 AM
Can you think of another job in which you are vetted for two years and then funded and selected by around 150,000,000 people? If you make it past all that, get elected and do a good job, they carve your head into a mountain. I can't imagine elites being attracted to that. Also, nuance isn't a dirty word, simple people with simple unwavering ideas are a recipe for trouble.

85Sooner
4/15/2008, 12:00 PM
Let em keep slugging it out.

picasso
4/15/2008, 12:21 PM
hey dooshbagggers. we common fly-over folk been clinging to God long before that there hate talk radio came out.

and owning a gun doesn't mean it's for hunting. last hunting I did was for mushrooms.

yermom
4/15/2008, 12:25 PM
yeah, but when lots of "fly-over folk" talk about who they are voting for, what are they bringing up?

picasso
4/15/2008, 12:28 PM
yeah, but when lots of "fly-over folk" talk about who they are voting for, what are they bringing up?

that's not the point. Barrax tried to tie in clinging to old school religion with the current white worker redneck middle Merica type who listens to conservative talk radio.

Fugue
4/15/2008, 12:30 PM
simple people with simple unwavering ideas are a recipe for trouble.


Who specifically are you talking about here?

yermom
4/15/2008, 12:41 PM
that's not the point. Barrax tried to tie in clinging to old school religion with the current white worker redneck middle Merica type who listens to conservative talk radio.

they aren't tied?

i'm sure he's not really that worried about that demographic anyway, they already aren't likely to vote for him

picasso
4/15/2008, 12:43 PM
ok, stand up taller so's it won't go over your head.

people around here and Ohio and such were clinging to God BEFORE conservative talk radio. thus listening to these yahoos it isn't exactly making more folks seek our creator.

that was my feeble point.

OklahomaRed
4/15/2008, 12:48 PM
Sorry, I vote on issues that I feel strongly about. It's not that I cling to my religion or my guns. It's the fact that they both rank a little higher up there on my importance scale than whether or not the Dems or the Pubs are going to sell my arse down the river, cause that's a given. The rich are going to take care of their own interests and screw everyone else. They are going to run on whatever frickin' platform they think they can get elected with. Hillary and Barrack both are Ivy League graduates and they got money, and they are being funded by whatever special interest that is in their corner. However, when it comes to guns and religion, I believe in both. I'm against gay marriage. Don't ask the church to saction you. I am not against civil unions. I am against abortion. If you are for abortion, go ask you mother if she ever thought of aborting you? It's murder, plain and simple. So, yes, I am going to vote along those lines. Not because I have to answer to any of you, but because I "believe" I will have to answer for my actions in the next life. Not arguing. Just saying how I feel about religion and guns. I'm with Pic. I don't own a gun cause I like to eat stuff I killed or mount it on the wall. Heck, I rather mount a hole in one in a frame. I have a gun cause you never know when some a-hole from the NE is going to come down and tell me where I need to line up to get my mark! Have a nice day.

yermom
4/15/2008, 12:59 PM
ok, stand up taller so's it won't go over your head.

people around here and Ohio and such were clinging to God BEFORE conservative talk radio. thus listening to these yahoos it isn't exactly making more folks seek our creator.

that was my feeble point.

i guess i missed the part about conservative talk radio being responsible for clinging to guns and religion, i thought it was previous administrations not giving a crap about working class people

picasso
4/15/2008, 01:05 PM
yeah I didn't word that very well. I just heard folks interpreting Barrax comments that way.

people have been toting guns and praying to God long before any of these goobs were in power.

yermom
4/15/2008, 01:13 PM
my understanding is that he is talking about people voting based on said issues and not whether someone is going to do anything about the economy, or whatever. they are just voting for the guy that isn't going to take their guns, or allow gay marriage, etc...

soonerinabilene
4/15/2008, 01:31 PM
None of this matters, because at the DNC, the world will be saved by Al Gore.
http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00013/56/70/13330765_m.jpg

shaun4411
4/15/2008, 02:26 PM
my understanding is that he is talking about people voting based on said issues and not whether someone is going to do anything about the economy, or whatever. they are just voting for the guy that isn't going to take their guns, or allow gay marriage, etc...

exactly. and that hillary dooshette totally grab-assed onto the subject and is milking it for all it's worth. i find that humorous. like it really matters. i think it comes to show the state of her campaign if she is attacking him on that. i dont necessarily agree or disageree with his comment, but i understand where he is coming from. it kind of goes without saying; like , duh. we know.

Tear Down This Wall
4/15/2008, 03:51 PM
Obama's comments are the reason the Democrats will lose again in '08 - they think anyone who believes in God is a rube. They don't grasp that hunting helps the environment. And, they can't figure out that unions killed most of the economy north of the Mason-Dixon line - and those areas not yet ruined are currently in decay.

So, Obama's words are not surprising. He's a Democrats. Democrats have their heads up their as*ses. Therefore, he has his head up his as*s. Sadly, his head is further up his as*s than Hillary's is up hers.

McCain will bury either of them in the general election. He'll win under the "give them enough rope, and they'll hang themselves/when you enemy is injuring him/herself, step aside" philosophy. Either Obama or Hillary will do themselves in with the constant stupidity both espouse - and espouse as loudly and ignorantly as possible.

Word to ya mutha.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
4/15/2008, 04:10 PM
As long as Hillary is in the race, there will be mudslinging betweed the 2 Dems. They will continue to show what makes them tick, and Obama wil have to address the charges coming from Hillary. It's good, because McCain doesn't have the (insert word) necessary to go after either one of them.

Sooner_Havok
4/15/2008, 05:57 PM
This is how I take this.

Let's say you are a good ole' Republican, old school Reagan fanboy. You see some politician as the second coming of his Reaganess. He shares all your beliefs on how the economy should be run and how the US should conduct itself in foreign affairs. Only problem is the guy thinks gays are ok, is an atheist, and thinks there should be some form of gun control. What do you do? Clearly you think the guy would run this country effectively, his domestic, foreign, and economic plans line up perfectly with what you believe at the core to be best for the country. But he wants to limit the number of guns you can own, he is cool with the gays, and he doesn't believe in a god. Now, let's say his name is Jose, and is a second generation American.

Tell me, honestly, that many Republicans out there wouldn't vote for this guy simply because he doesn't have a personal relationship with Jesus, he doesn't see gays as a bigger risk than terrorists, he thinks guns shouldn't be given out willy-nilly, and his grandparents immigrated to the US from Mexico. There are people out there (a good number of them too) that wouldn't, even though they might think this guy could steer the country in the right way.

And this isn't just a republican thing either. Replace the GOP with the Donks and his Reaganess with his Rooseveltness and the situation remains the same. People don't give a **** about what is best for the country as a whole, they want a guy who tells them that he will secure their way of life, all others be damned.

Just my take though

def_lazer_fc
4/15/2008, 08:03 PM
Shame on you, Dean! NOT nice.

well, we know no one ever accused you of being creative.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
4/15/2008, 08:08 PM
well, we know no one ever accused you of being creative.There ya go.(I like you, too)

def_lazer_fc
4/15/2008, 08:16 PM
There ya go.(I like you, too)

dude, i'm straight. ;)

Jerk
4/15/2008, 08:50 PM
But he wants to limit the number of guns you can own...



Pray tell, what is the magic number, and who decides? There are many different kinds of guns for many different applications. Nope. I couldn't vote for a guy who was this big of a fkn idiot.





he thinks guns shouldn't be given out willy-nilly,

Just my take though

Except for the few my dad gave me, I bought them.

You know the real issue isn't guns; It's whether or not a person has the right of self-preservation, such as self-defense. A politician's stance on this issue tells me everything I need to know about them. They either think I'm a competent and trustworthy citizen who is responsible enough to exercise a God given right, or one of the peon masses who needs to be lorded over and controlled.

Sooner_Havok
4/15/2008, 09:02 PM
Pray tell, what is the magic number, and who decides? There are many different kinds of guns for many different applications. Nope. I couldn't vote for a guy who was this big of a fkn idiot.




Except for the few my dad gave me, I bought them.

You know the real issue isn't guns; It's whether or not a person has the right of self-preservation, such as self-defense. A politician's stance on this issue tells me everything I need to know about them. They either think I'm a competent and trustworthy citizen who is responsible enough to exercise a God given right, or one of the peon masses who needs to be lorded over and controlled.

Unwittingly you just proved my point. You are so hung up on the gun part, you you can't see past it. Why? If this theoretical political savior shows up (Reagen if you are a pub, Roosevelt if your a donk), and the only thing you can fault him with is wanting some sort of gun control (like I said before, some sort. This is theoretical, what if the guy just wants to ban the sale of shoulder launched RPGs within the US, that is still gun control) you automatically disqualify him from being electable? To me this makes no sense.

So let's say we have a magic time machine. We go into the future and see political Jesus has reversed the trends, and the US is once again on top of the world. The dollar is beating the pound and the euro, and Iraq is cleaned up. But, there you sit at home, with one gun less than you would have had if this guy wasn't elected. You would seriously say **** America, I want that one extra gun, and vote against the guy?

OklahomaRed
4/16/2008, 11:50 AM
Havok,

You are missing the point. So the dude cleans up the economy, rids the world of terrorist, and breaks down all racial barriers. Good! Awesome accomplishments. He/she should have his/her face carved into Mount Rushmore.

The point you are missing is that he/she also took away our religious freedom and our right to keep and bare arms. Religious freedom is exactly that. That's why the government shouldn't shove gay marriage down our throats (no pun intended). Fine, civil unions, go for it. I feel anyone should have the right to have their legal liberties protected, and the right to name whomever they want as their "life partner", but to ask the Government to sanction it as marriage just so gays can thumb their nose at the church, is sticking their nose in business that is not the governments to condone. Our forefathers fought for the right to keep and bare arms. Not so that we could go hunting, but so we could keep dictators and kings/queens from taking away our civil rights. I could care less where their grandmother or grandfather came from. Heck, even the Indians forefathers came from somewhere else other than North America. I think Jerk said it pretty well. It's what they are thinking, and if they feel they somehow are holier or better than the average working class middle class who (in my opinion) are still the backbone of this country. We don't need goverment interfering in our every days lives, worship, and personal freedoms regardless if they are the savior of the worlds economy & bring peace to one and all. In fact, if you are going all religious on this subject, if that person does show up, you better get your bags packed? :D

yermom
4/16/2008, 12:48 PM
that's rich dude. shoving gay marriage down your throat? putting the government's nose where it shouldn't be?

wow.

i'm not sure why anyone even touches the gun control issue. does anyone outside of Tom Brady really want it?

olevetonahill
4/16/2008, 12:54 PM
Hillary

OklahomaRed
4/16/2008, 01:16 PM
that's rich dude. shoving gay marriage down your throat? putting the government's nose where it shouldn't be?

wow.

i'm not sure why anyone even touches the gun control issue. does anyone outside of Tom Brady really want it?

Heh! I must have some Freudian slips in there or somethin? :eek:

JohnnyMack
4/16/2008, 01:27 PM
Havok,

You are missing the point. So the dude cleans up the economy, rids the world of terrorist, and breaks down all racial barriers. Good! Awesome accomplishments. He/she should have his/her face carved into Mount Rushmore.

The point you are missing is that he/she also took away our religious freedom and our right to keep and bare arms. Religious freedom is exactly that. That's why the government shouldn't shove gay marriage down our throats (no pun intended). Fine, civil unions, go for it. I feel anyone should have the right to have their legal liberties protected, and the right to name whomever they want as their "life partner", but to ask the Government to sanction it as marriage just so gays can thumb their nose at the church, is sticking their nose in business that is not the governments to condone. Our forefathers fought for the right to keep and bare arms. Not so that we could go hunting, but so we could keep dictators and kings/queens from taking away our civil rights. I could care less where their grandmother or grandfather came from. Heck, even the Indians forefathers came from somewhere else other than North America. I think Jerk said it pretty well. It's what they are thinking, and if they feel they somehow are holier or better than the average working class middle class who (in my opinion) are still the backbone of this country. We don't need goverment interfering in our every days lives, worship, and personal freedoms regardless if they are the savior of the worlds economy & bring peace to one and all. In fact, if you are going all religious on this subject, if that person does show up, you better get your bags packed? :D

At what point were your religious freedoms taken away? I must've missed that part.

JohnnyMack
4/16/2008, 01:36 PM
This country will not, in my lifetime, elect a President who doesn't profess to be a Christian. Doesn't matter what this person truly believes, he or she will be a "Christian" when it comes to running for the POTUS.

OklahomaRed
4/16/2008, 04:26 PM
Never said that. They are taken away when you ask me to "not vote" while clinging to my Bible and my gun. Also, they are taken away when the government attempts to legislate what marriage is, or when they want to take my tax dollars and use them to support or fund something I disagree with. I can guarantee you, my tax dollars are taken away from me unwillingly, yet I comply because I do like roads I can drive on, schools my kids can attend that actually teach them something, and a military that's going to keep Osama from marching right down main street. However, when the government deems it my responsibility also to support the crack addicts 8th kid, or pay for her 4th abortion, I have issues with that because they are taking my money and funding it. I also have issues with the government attempting to legislate what marriage is versus a Civil Union. If gays feel like they can get married and the church (normal protestant religion) should sanction it, then they are not reading the same Bible I am. Now if they want the Buddhist church, or Islam to saction it, then I could give a rat's rear end. :D You are entitle to your opinion, just don't ask me to pay for it or have the government legislate it when it's never their intended task as originally established by the constitution. :D

Sooner_Havok
4/16/2008, 05:38 PM
I never said gay marriage. I said This hypothetical politician is OK with the gays. Frankly, I think the word marriage should be stricken from all government documents and replaced with the term "Civil Unions". Marriage is a word that carries religious overtones, and these overtones seem to be most peoples hang up on this (most, not all.) Let our government recognize the legal aspect and call them civil unions and let your church of choice recognize the religious aspect and call it marriage.

Sooner_Havok
4/16/2008, 10:03 PM
heh

link (http://www.alternet.org/election08/82268/?page=entire)

Vaevictis
4/16/2008, 10:24 PM
Also, they are taken away when the government attempts to legislate what marriage is (...)

The government already legislates what marriage is.

Sooner_Havok
4/17/2008, 12:08 AM
exsmFDYyK4U&

This is awesome