Malcolm Kelly, Kelly Gregg, the S&T/Med staffs, OU "fans", etc.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Well, well, well...

Now everyone is down on Malcolm Kelly because he dissed the training staff. Personally, I've always posted that he shouldn't go pro because he didn't seem to be ready. However, after his comments, and even Kelly Gregg's joking comments, about injuries to Sooner players in the pros, I've changed my mind - apparently, he should go, at minimum, to save his own health!

With very few - almost no - exceptions, Sooners going pro since Schmidt has been the S&T coach have had leg injuries. Many have had very short pro careers because of those injuries. Coincidence? Maybe.

However, Malcolm's explanation about the misdiagnosis of his thigh tear puts new light on a subject some of us have considered important, but others have pooh-poohed - whether the S&T coach has the best interests of the player in mind.

Yes, his job is to get them ready to play. However, you'd think S&T/Med staff would suggest an MRI on a player of Kelly's caliber when he didn't heal quickly. They didn't. They kept telling him to run it off and forget about it.

So, did Kelly save himself from the same fate of Rocky Calmus by not playing in the Fiesta Bowl? Right now, it looks like he may have.

It's disappointing to me to hear all of this, even though I've been highly critical of the S&T coach for a few years now. I could care less that we won a national title eight seasons ago. Each year is different, each season new.

What doesn't change is that the kids coming in to play for OU are kids. As a season ticket holder, I enjoy watching and supporting them. I could care less about the S&T staff. They are a dime a dozen. And, if they are hurting the kids by misdiagnosis for the sake of keeping them on the field, they should all be fired.

It's sickening to keep having this type of thing pop up. It's also sickening to have OU "fans" dissing Kelly for giving his side of the story. If there were no other history of leg injuries and former OU players, he would seem like a whiner. Unfortunately, he may have pulled the curtain back just a little more on what is really happening.

Whatever happens, I still wish Malcolm Kelly well. He made our trips from Dallas to Norman the past three years exciting. We always knew we'd see amazing catches and 110% effort from him.

Watching Malcolm torch Miami for 100+ yards and 3 TDs last September was the icing on the cake for a victory over the Hurricanes that many of us had yearned for since the three losses to them during the 1985 and 1986 season and after the 1987 season in the Orange Bowl. Thank you, Malcolm! Thank you again!

Many people here criticized the dozen or so offensive linemen who left the program of from 2001 to 2006. We heard they just couldn't or wouldn't cut it. Well, here stands Malcolm Kelly. He never gave up. He showed for the winter drills. He practiced and did what he was told for three years. And for what? To have his health jeopardized by the S&T and Med staffs?

Sorry, folks, but if Boren is going to get involved with the athletic department during on the field controversies, he should also get involved in the off the field ones. He had alot to say after the 2006 Oregon game. I wonder if he'll have anything to say now that one of his former students has raised questions about how his injury was handled by Boren's employees.

I seriously doubt Boren has the guts. Sadly, I doubt Bob Stoops does either.

[MojoRisen]

I don't know that I would make a mountain out of a mole hole on this. I do agree that they should have trusted kelly more when he said his leg ain't healing and gotten him an MRI as apposed to calling him a ***** and to run it off. I know how coaches can be and I guarantee they need to be a little more on the ball if one of the best players on the team is saying he can't just run it off.

As far as the training tactics and ligaments argument- I would side with the guy with the degree in it and making six figures to do it- over the players.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Whatever the heat between him and the coaches fine but

1. The timing of his rant was terrible. Regardless of right or wrong, he came across as a whiner. It was not smart of him do it before the draft. Its not like the scouts and teams are saying "OK, Malcolm blames this on the coaches, so he gets a pass." He did nothing but hurt himself with the comments and actions. Day after draft. Heck 2 minutes after the draft is over, say it. do it. Throw a fit. It doesnt matter. But this close to the draft?

2. How did the misdiagnosing of the injury affect him playing in the Fiesta Bowl when both injuries call for the same thing? Inactivity. I don't see how they screwed him on that

[bosworthsteroidmafia]

"With very few - almost no - exceptions, Sooners going pro since Schmidt has been the S&T coach have had leg injuries. Many have had very short pro careers because of those injuries. Coincidence? Maybe."

I think this is a very legitimate concern and deserves to be investigated.

::helps tear down the wall::

[bmrsnou]

I think the injuries to our ex-players in the NFL has to be a concern. As a season ticket holder and just plain fan of these kids, it bothers me. I hate to think that our s&t staff might be 'overworking' these kids during their 3-4 years w/ us.

Anyone who has ever played the game of football at any level knows how coaches and trainers are. It is a macho attitude they have about injuries. "Rub some dirt on it!" "It's just a minor pull." We all heard things like this when we played. Granted I didn't play college ball, but I think it is still the same attitude.

This is where I'll probably get flamed, but I have thought for a long time that our spring/summer workout program is too grueling. Some of the things that Schmitty has these kids doing are crazy!! Don't get me wrong, I want us to win as bad as anyone else here on this board, but there has to be a better way to condition these kids and also let the ones that have a chance at a decent pro career make it to the NFL without being injured so soon. I know inuries can happen to anyone, but it seems like our all americans and star players aren't having much of a pro career. With the exception of RW (who wasn't under Schmitty his whole time) and AD (who will hopefully not flame out like Earl Campbell) a lot of our other "star" players have the injury bug.

This is just my two cents. Hopefully something can change. I would have loved to have seen Tommie Harris and Dusy Dvoracek side by side for the bears, or Dan Cody killing a QB, or Mark Clayton catching TD's.

As for Malcolm, I have to agree about leaving too soon. I know that during conference play he was drawing double coverage a lot, but a player of his caliber should have been able to catch more than two td's in big 12 play. As for the sour grapes he has, he really can't blame anyone but himself.

[Taxman71]

Valid points, but I wouldn't blame OU's S&T for the Bears putting Dusty on kickoff coverage (when he blew out his knee).

[soonerboy_odanorth]

I disagree with the post and the opinions supporting it.

The blanket statement of "it has to be a concern... all these leg injuries... why does it happen to all of OUr players"... is completely off the mark.

The vast majority of injuries in football are to some portion of the legs... and that is at every single level from Pop Warner to Pro.

So you guys are saying Teddy Lehman's foot and ankle injuries are Shmiddy's fault.

Tommie Harris's hamstring tear was Shmiddy's fault.

Jammal Brown's minor knee sprain (which he played through) was Shmiddy's fault.

Rocky Calmus's broken bones are Shmiddy's fault.

Mark Clayton's ankle sprain (which he played through) was Shmiddy's fault.

Brandon Jones's groin pull was Shmiddy's fault.

Adrian Peterson's minor ligament tear (on a vicious helmet to knee hit) was Shmiddy's fault.

Have I made my point yet? Look, I challenge each and every one of you to look at college programs that have placed a similar number of players in the NFL over the last 8 years (which is maybe a half dozen) and NOT come up with a similar littany of injuries.

Start with Texas. Their S&C (that's Strength & Conditioning... don't know what your "T" stands for) has long been rumored to be "softer" than OUrs. Correct? (Fact is, none of us really knows if it truly is or not... but that's been the rep.) Why don't you take a gander at the number of injuries their former players have racked up. It's extensive. Same with USC.

It's a violent sport, especially at the NFL level. The average tenure of a player in the NFL I believe is 2.3 years. That's it.

I think you ought to be focussing instead on:

How many players have made it to the NFL thanks to Shmiddy's training that otherwise wouldn't have? (Mark Clayton may be among those, btw.)

How much longer have some of their careers lasted than others because of their conditioning and understanding (learned from Shmiddy) of what it takes to do the physical training necessary to compete at the NFL level?

Lastly, do you honestly think at the NFL level they aren't doin' a whole lot of "rub some dirt on it". They say it all the time, the biggest leap for a lot of these college players is learning when they just need to play through the pain, and when they are truly injured. I think, thanks larely to Shmiddy, former OU players might in fact have a better understanding of that. That is, they are more thoroughly prepared for the rigors of the NFL. And I guar-awn-dang-tee you that when they are scouting these guys for the draft that is one quality that they are taking a very serious look at.

... and that's all I have to say about that.

[MojoRisen]

If they switched where Kelly was going to run his 40 the day of the pro day-

I would have been upset- it is about money and that is a very important workout for them money wise/it isn't practice or a classroom. If it was in fact switched the day of pro day- I would want to know why?

A simple MRI can be expended on your top player if he says he is not healing. That is a mistake

As for the Injury bug for OU NFL folks - I would not blame that on Schmidtty

[DarrellZero]

If they switched where Kelly was going to run his 40 the day of the pro day- I would have been upset- it is about money and that is a very important workout for them money wise/it isn't practice or a classroom. If it was in fact switched the day of pro day- I would want to know why?

I think it's pretty clear that the switch to the Everest Center was mandated by the scouts themselves, not by OU. So what was Kelly going to do, tell the scouts to shove it?

Maybe he was right to be upset about it, but he doesn't have the right to shoot the messenger, i.e. OU's training staff.

[Ash]

Do you really think Boren or any University President would fire off a press release as quickly as possible to address a former player's tantrum? Absurd.

You can expect action if this story gains momentum, though. It does cast a bad light on the S&C, trainers and medical staff at OU. Stoops has already tried to address it, but apparently it didn't satisfy everyone's concerns.

[RedstickSooner]

Let me preface this post by admitting my own ignorance: Maybe I don't understand the role the S&C coach plays in medical issues.

That being said -- shouldn't all our blame here be on the medical staff? Isn't it the job of the S&C coach to drive the kids to their limit? Football players everywhere, at every program, or every elite program, seem to suffer a ton of injuries. Does it feel sometimes like we get more than our fair share? Sure -- but, heck, maybe that's just because I notice ours.

Until one of our resident statmonkeys (JKM, I'm looking at you, bud.) breaks down some numbers, I don't think we can conclude anything about being more or less injury prone than any other program.

And, the main thing I was getting at is: Misdiagnosis, in particular, should be a medical staff thing. Schmitty doesn't veto or meddle in the medical clearance / evaluation of players, does he? I mean, dude ain't an M.D., right?

[Collier11]

Well, well, well...

Now everyone is down on Malcolm Kelly because he dissed the training staff. Personally, I've always posted that he shouldn't go pro because he didn't seem to be ready. However, after his comments, and even Kelly Gregg's joking comments, about injuries to Sooner players in the pros, I've changed my mind - apparently, he should go, at minimum, to save his own health!

With very few - almost no - exceptions, Sooners going pro since Schmidt has been the S&T coach have had leg injuries. Many have had very short pro careers because of those injuries. Coincidence? Maybe.

However, Malcolm's explanation about the misdiagnosis of his thigh tear puts new light on a subject some of us have considered important, but others have pooh-poohed - whether the S&T coach has the best interests of the player in mind.

Yes, his job is to get them ready to play. However, you'd think S&T/Med staff would suggest an MRI on a player of Kelly's caliber when he didn't heal quickly. They didn't. They kept telling him to run it off and forget about it.

So, did Kelly save himself from the same fate of Rocky Calmus by not playing in the Fiesta Bowl? Right now, it looks like he may have.

It's disappointing to me to hear all of this, even though I've been highly critical of the S&T coach for a few years now. I could care less that we won a national title eight seasons ago. Each year is different, each season new.

What doesn't change is that the kids coming in to play for OU are kids. As a season ticket holder, I enjoy watching and supporting them. I could care less about the S&T staff. They are a dime a dozen. And, if they are hurting the kids by misdiagnosis for the sake of keeping them on the field, they should all be fired.

It's sickening to keep having this type of thing pop up. It's also sickening to have OU "fans" dissing Kelly for giving his side of the story. If there were no other history of leg injuries and former OU players, he would seem like a whiner. Unfortunately, he may have pulled the curtain back just a little more on what is really happening.

Whatever happens, I still wish Malcolm Kelly well. He made our trips from Dallas to Norman the past three years exciting. We always knew we'd see amazing catches and 110% effort from him.

Watching Malcolm torch Miami for 100+ yards and 3 TDs last September was the icing on the cake for a victory over the Hurricanes that many of us had yearned for since the three losses to them during the 1985 and 1986 season and after the 1987 season in the Orange Bowl. Thank you, Malcolm! Thank you again!

Many people here criticized the dozen or so offensive linemen who left the program of from 2001 to 2006. We heard they just couldn't or wouldn't cut it. Well, here stands Malcolm Kelly. He never gave up. He showed for the winter drills. He practiced and did what he was told for three years. And for what? To have his health jeopardized by the S&T and Med staffs?

Sorry, folks, but if Boren is going to get involved with the athletic department during on the field controversies, he should also get involved in the off the field ones. He had alot to say after the 2006 Oregon game. I wonder if he'll have anything to say now that one of his former students has raised questions about how his injury was handled by Boren's employees.

I seriously doubt Boren has the guts. Sadly, I doubt Bob Stoops does either.

Lots of speculation in here, maybe MK should just take responsibility for himself for a bad workout. In the NFL, everyone gets hurt...our players have just had bad breaks. If you have proof ill listen but til then, sour grapes and speculation!

[Collier11]

If they switched where Kelly was going to run his 40 the day of the pro day-

I would have been upset- it is about money and that is a very important workout for them money wise/it isn't practice or a classroom. If it was in fact switched the day of pro day- I would want to know why?



Because the NFL scouts requested it for the reason of him running on the same field as those at the combine...nothing to do with OU and not our fault for not telling him. All we do is unlock the building

[snp]

Look, TDTW doesn't approve of our coaching staff once again. Shocking.


Many players (including several that have had leg injuries) come back and train with Schmitty in the offseason. Schmitty is regarded as one of the top S&C gurus out there despite your thinking they are a "dime a dozen." Every player and coach I have ever spoken to fear but respects and appreciates the hell out of Schmitty. I'm going to take their opinions over yours every day of the week.

[cvsooner]

Malcolm didn't do himself any favors in the long run (no pun intended). I know his injury may have precluded running sooner (again, no pun intended), but he gambled everything on having all this on one day. A lot of potential NFLers will take part in the combine, do the school's pro day and a private workout. Malcolm gambled it all on one workout. I can appreciate his frustration over prepping to run on one surface and then they have him run on another...but still.

If the Steelers drafted him, his 40 time wouldn't matter in that mud bog.

I notice Reggie didn't complain, at least openly, about everything not going his way.

It sounds to me like Malcolm had a bad day and it's got to be somebody's fault. Anybody but his. He can't blame the scouts for changing the venue, because those are potential employers. He's leaving OU (never mind all the time Schmitty put into making him a better athlete, nor getting the facility ready for a PRIVATE WORKOUT, no less), and he'd have done better if....only.

I note one scout told him not to worry about the 40 times.

Malcolm, some advice from someone over 50: things aren't always going to go your way. And, justified or not, whining about it--and it comes off as whining--is not going to endear you to your future employer. Note the Randy Mosses and the Terrell Owenses and the Chad Johnsones and the Jeremy Shockeys are the very rare exceptions in the NFL, not the rule.

And prepare to get traded, a lot.

[KantoSooner]

Two issues here:

First, MK's time in the 40. Okay, he trained to run on some track-like surface and felt blindingly fast on it. And then the pro-scouts made him run on a more grass-like surface. Then he biotched about it and blamed everyone but himself and his trainer.
As far as I can tell, he and his trainer are/were off base. The scouts decided the surface, and have that right. Hell, they could tell him to run on sand with his knickers pulled up in a wedgie and that's what he'd have to do. They are fixing to pay him millions of dollars. They call the shots.
And, if his trainer and agent didn't apprise him of those facts, then he needs to look in that direction to vent his rage.
Still, I don't blame him much. He's a young man, on the biggest stage of his life and knows that this is his shot. I can understand and sympathize with the stress and give him a freebie on blowing up at whoever was close by. Not his finest hour, but what the hey.

Second, the training issue. Maybe his quad tear was misdiagnosed, maybe not. It doesn't seem to have mattered as the treatment he got was no different.
If, on the other hand, we want to look at whether the conditioning program is, in some way, poorly thought out and ends up causing injury-prone-ness that's a valid, though hardly one-sided, debate. I am not a training expert and am not too knowledgeable regarding OU's program. We do seem to have a number of injuries each year. More than other elite programs? I don't know.
And for every time we implicate a portion of our program as being too harsh, we then turn around and hear about USC or some other program that is lauded for going full banzai all the time and how that makes them less injury prone during the season.

To me, Kelly's comments were an unfortunate venting by a young guy who has performed like a champ for three years at OU, had a chance to really show some maturity and kind of didn't.

No biggie.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

It's always Brent Venable's fault....ALWAYS

[SoonerObsession]

It's interesting to me that on the same turf, other people were able to run just as fast as him. Isn't this the same turf that Tommy Harris ran a 4.8? I really think he was upset that he did not have a good Pro day and he was venting his frustrations.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

But Defensive Tackles are supposed to be ALOT faster than wide recievers

[Collier11]

But Defensive Tackles are supposed to be ALOT faster than wide recievers

Tommie Harris did run down TFRW, what does he run?

[KantoSooner]

It depends on whether he's running against a stopwatch or in pursuit of some little man who he gets to brutalize if he can catch up.

Much faster in the latter role.

[cvsooner]

Michael David Smith's blog at the NY Times (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/malcolm-kellys-attitude-is-worse-than-his-40-time/) (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/malcolm-kellys-attitude-is-worse-than-his-40-time/)is interesting:

"When N.F.L. coaches and scouts descend on college campuses to watch prospects in “pro day” workouts, they measure how tall and how heavy and how fast and how strong they are.

"But they also want to get a feel for how well the players interact with coaches. So for Oklahoma wide receiver Malcolm Kelly, who worked out at his school’s pro day on Wednesday, his sub-par 40-yard dash time won’t hurt him nearly as much as the way he handled himself.

"Kelly’s 40 time really was sub-par: NFL.com reports that he clocked in at 4.75 seconds and 4.68 seconds. Those are very slow times for a wide receiver.

"But slow times aren’t a deal breaker. Ryan Wilson at FanHouse notes that in 2004 Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63 and Michael Clayton ran a 4.67. Fitzgerald was chosen with the third pick in the draft and Clayton with the 15th.

"What will undoubtedly be a deal breaker for many N.F.L. teams is that Kelly reportedly yelled at Oklahoma strength and conditioning coach Jerry Schmidt after his workout, and then told Jake Trotter of The Oklahoman and other members of the media that his slow times were not his fault, but the fault of the coaching and medical staffs at Oklahoma:

“Certain people have tried to hold me down, and they know who they are,” Kelly said. “I wouldn’t say the whole OU coaching staff, but certain people, I would say that.”

"After hearing those comments, and others in which Kelly suggested that his thigh injury worsened because Oklahoma’s trainers misdiagnosed it, Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops felt the need to stick up for his program, insisting that Kelly was treated properly.

"In N.F.L. circles, Stoops is one of the most respected college coaches, and if Kelly thinks a verbal back-and-forth with Stoops two weeks before the draft is the way to endear himself to N.F.L. teams, he’s in for an unpleasant surprise on draft day. Kelly likely dropped out of the first round on Wednesday, and not because of his 40 time."

[r5TPsooner]

Didn't care much for him when he played for OU don't care much for him now. Talk about having no gratitude. He really does come off nationally as a spoiled little superstar who didn't get his way.

[BigDeezy]

It's always Brent Venable's fault....ALWAYS


Sorry, but you are incorrect. . . . now, Chuck Long, maybe. . . . (this is sarcasm, folks!)

[JLB]

Malcolm Kelly needs to grow up and shut his big mouth.I lost a lot of respect for that man because he always seemed to get hurt when it was time to play in the big games.
Now he blames his lack of speed on the coaching staff.It just shows me that he is not a team player and only cares about himself.

[Eielson]

Him not shutting his mouth is probably going to cost him more than his crappy combine. How can you be so stupid when your character is being so heavily looked at? That probably dropped him at least another round.

[Pigface1]

What exactly did Kelly Gregg say?

[TheUnnamedSooner]

What exactly did Kelly Gregg say?

nothing, he just sacked the qb and flenched his muscles over him.

[Pigface1]

nothing, he just sacked the qb and flenched his muscles over him.

lmao